rec.autos.simulators

: Not to mention the abrupt cut to a commercial immediately after Andretti
: bumped into Johannsen (sp?).  I don't expect these kinds of shenanigans from
: ESPN normally.

You mean that was ESPN breaking to commercial.  In Canada they showed the
ESPN coverage too but I thought it was TSN going to commercial that cut
off the end of the race.

--
CanucksGrizzliesLionsVooDooCanadiansCanucksGrizzliesLionsVooDooCanadiansCanu


ucksGrizzliesLionsVooDooCanadiansCanucksGrizzliesLionsVooDooCanadiansCanucks

        All I know is that if ESPN was to carry a NASCAR race at 16.00,
it would have started at 16.00 with very few golf during commercials.

bryon

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A hot coal removed from the fire is no longer thus.
Bryon S. Lape

[snip]
[snip]

Since the cut was to a "local" commerical, I had thought that it had
happened only here in San Diego. "Relieved" to know that we were not
the only ones to get "hit".  :-)

Doug ...

: : So how long should racing fans, specifically Indycar fans "take what we can
: : get?" And believe me, I do know how much racing coverage has improved over
: : the years, and I have been "putting" up with being a second-class sports fan
: : long enough!

: Sheesh!  ESPN dumped a high-profit margin Golf match to cover, in its
: commercialized totallity an unfortunately lower-profit INDY car race.
: It seems to me as if ESPN "is" making an effort to bump auto racing into
: the realm of "first-class" sports in the States.  Compare ESPN to TV
: Esp who broadcast the Spanish Grand Prix in Negative color.  The Yellow
: Ferraris were alright for a minute...but.  Otherwise, if you can't wait
: for Motor-racing to become as big as the NBA...move to Brazil, I here they
: really go for it down there.  :)

        Do you really believe what you have written here? If ESPN is doing
        this for charity then you are terribly mistaken. No, this is a case
        of poor coverage pure and simple. Even if CART only bought a block
        of time for the race, that doesn't excuse the fact that it didn't
        start on time. There is no reason why ESPN cannot broadcast this
        race in it's entirety. If ESPN wants to show golf, then fine. But if
        they want to continue to bring motorsports to the fans, then they
        better shape up quick. I don't care if CART only buys 2 hours of
        time. ESPN should have at least taken the time to put together a
        good show. The damn race might as well have been done by a cable
        access channel.

        Jay
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The way I understand television coverage is that the ESPN pays INDYcar
for the rights to cover and then sells commercials.  Just like every other
sport is covered.  "There is no reason why ESPN cannot broadcasr this
race in its entirety."  ...I saw the green and the checker...  Seems like
a lot of people sure like to gripe about the coverage rather than discuss
a relatively good race.  Christian is going to be great someday.  As for
ESPN, I understand it is not charity, I would call it an investment.  ESPN
and NBA.  For the future it is wise to push motor-racing which they carry
on an almost weekly basis.  Witness WC which has become a major thanks in
part to ESPN.

eryc

: So how long should racing fans, specifically Indycar fans "take what we can
: get?" And believe me, I do know how much racing coverage has improved over
: the years, and I have been "putting" up with being a second-class sports fan
: long enough!

Sheesh!  ESPN dumped a high-profit margin Golf match to cover, in its
commercialized totallity an unfortunately lower-profit INDY car race.
It seems to me as if ESPN "is" making an effort to bump auto racing into
the realm of "first-class" sports in the States.  Compare ESPN to TV
Esp who broadcast the Spanish Grand Prix in Negative color.  The Yellow
Ferraris were alright for a minute...but.  Otherwise, if you can't wait
for Motor-racing to become as big as the NBA...move to Brazil, I here they
really go for it down there.  :)

eryc

: >
: >: I like golf, but ESPN is really pissing me off today.  I am NOT in a
: >: good mood.  Why?  Because I am missing all the fun pre-race activities
: >: in Portland due to ESPN's coverage of some old fart golf tournament.  
: >: If it was the world class golfers I could almost understand, but these
: >: guys are has beens.  I am even more pissed to know that when the race
: >: is over, they will immediately cut back to the tournament, no post race
: >: fun either, or so they say.
: >
: >        I'll take a stab and suggest that the Senior PGA Tour Fans were
: >also pretty upset.  At least we got to see our whole event.  As for ESPN,
: >ABC has done the same thing in the past and even joined races 'in progress'.
: >I too was disappointed, but probably far less than the Golf fans.  Take what
: >you can get and count those blessings.  ;)

: So how long should racing fans, specifically Indycar fans "take what we can
: get?" And believe me, I do know how much racing coverage has improved over
: the years, and I have been "putting" up with being a second-class sports fan
: long enough!

: I watched the broadcast after I got home from the race and was disappointed,
: but at least I found out WHY the race was delayed. The start time for the
: race was 1:00pm, and they started their engines at 1:15!!! The fans at the
: TRACK were also getting restless, so it wasn't just the TV viewers that got
: delayed.

:           * * * * * * * * * * *    To join The Scott Pruett Fan Club
:         *      Jim DeFord       *         FAX: (916) 771-0170

:     *  * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  *              PO BOX 7243
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Ralf

: The way I understand television coverage is that the ESPN pays INDYcar
: for the rights to cover and then sells commercials.  Just like every other
: sport is covered.  "There is no reason why ESPN cannot broadcasr this
: race in its entirety."  ...I saw the green and the checker...  Seems like
: a lot of people sure like to gripe about the coverage rather than discuss
: a relatively good race.  Christian is going to be great someday.  As for
: ESPN, I understand it is not charity, I would call it an investment.  ESPN
: and NBA.  For the future it is wise to push motor-racing which they carry
: on an almost weekly basis.  Witness WC which has become a major thanks in
: part to ESPN.

        I don't think this is correct. CART buys chunks of time for a race
        broadcast. This is why sometimes race coverage is cut short by ABC.
        CART estimates the length of a race and buys the proper time. The
        number of yellow flags can obviously***things up. If it were the
        case that ESPN and ABC bid for the rights to cover the race, then
        commercials and the like would not be a problem and should not delay
        the start of a race and limit the coverage to the point that we
        witness the cars on the parade lap and cut to commercial when barely
        1/4th of the field has finished the race.

        Jay
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Is ABC really that much of an advantage? I can't speak for the rest of the US
but a lot of desperate local affiliates are showing infomercial-***instead
of racing on Sunday afternoons. ESPN is the only REAL hope. As far as US
only drivers, that'll lose a LOT of the real fans...I don't give a rat's
ass about the 'Fastest American' when (hopefully) a driver with the sheer
brilliance of Ayrton Senna or Alain Prost is blowing paint of curbs.
I'd be willing to bet that is a common thought among real fans (Usenet
readers, for instance). It might indeed help ratings, but the quality
will suffer.

Does this mean I need to put up with gap-toothed 50-year old women swapping
skin-tight (yeech!) Dale Earnhardt pants for Al Unser halter tops?
Maybe NASCAR should start selling formula-approved dental plans, and tractor
tyres to paint white so you can grow flowers in them..sorry, couldn't
resist. I guess the point is that NASCAR is way overmarketed.

Jeff

|>   I don't think this is correct. CART buys chunks of time for a race
|>   broadcast. This is why sometimes race coverage is cut short by ABC.

This is the way it was LAST year, and for a number of years preceding that.
However, this year, ESPN did indeed pay for the rights to broadcast CART
events.  They in turn buy the time from ABC for a majority of the events.
It is ESPN that produces all the CART races no matter what network they
are on.  Another words, they stand to make or lose money depending on how
well they sell advertising space.  ESPN feels they can make more money
having races on ABC even though they pay ABC for the time then on their
own network.  This is why the majority of the races are on ABC.  All of
these details were announced over the winter when the new tv contracts
were signed.

Last year, it was CART that stood to make or lose money since they
bought the time on the various networks.

Also, it is OCC that actually puts the shows together.  This of course
is owned by Jim Ohlmeyer, who now works as an executive for NBC.

--
Russell Jaslow   |   "A racecar is like a ***: expensive,    |My employer
Rochester, NY    |     demanding, and looked upon by the wife     |has nothing
Spec Racer #33   |              with great suspicion."            |to do with
Finger Lakes Reg.| The NY Rangers own the Stanley Cup -- FINALLY! |my drivel.

having races on ABC versus ESPN is a _huge_ advantage because only about
70% of US households have cable.  

interesting how you equate "usenet readers" with "real fans" ... your
tacit acknowledgement that an all-oval schedule could increase TV ratings
belies the fact that the many folks on this 'net who prefer road to oval
racing aren't typical of US race fans...

and as for your suggestion that IRL with have only American drivers,
this is a false rumor promoted by CART stalwarts - it would be illegal
and unethical, to say the least.  IRL is actively courting all Indy teams
and will have many foreign drivers  (see the article on Indy car politics
in the June 3 Economist on this point)

well, you had your facts wrong on non-US drivers in IRL, but thought that
you'd at least manage to avoid stupid snobbery...

but, like many folks here, you can only resort to bigotry toward NASCAR fans
when attempting to excuse CART's popularity problems.  read up on the
demographics of racing fans, and you'll find that the income difference,
for example, between CART and NASCAR fans is minimal.  maybe you can
borrow some money from those women, eh?  

No, just juiced numbers from NSSN.  My understanding is that ratings
points are relative to the number of households with that network
available.  The example I saw in On Track said, for instance, that
a ratings point on network TV reaches about 30% more people than a
ratings point on ESPN.  The difference is probably even greater for
TNN.  That means that because of it's network exposure, IndyCar's
Detriot race reached almost as many people as the NASCAR race on TNN.  

I don't doubt for a second that NASCAR will bring in more households
in an apples to apples comparison, but open wheel racing will never
have as wide an interest as stock car racing.  Trying to compete head
to head for oval racing fans against NASCAR will not help open wheel
racing in the US.

What little difference has shown up in CART's ratings on ovals will be
more than offset by the loss of all the fans who like the current
mixture, the lack of name drivers and teams (when you don't have to
put "hopefully" in front of them you can claim them as an asset), and
the lack of continuity in the IRL schedule.

Why a lower average?  IndyCar will have just as many ovals next year as
this year.  

"Hopefully" "could" "maybe" "if."  We'll see.

Yeah, Tony is going to learn a thing or two about marketing from NASCAR
when he tries to go head to head with them. :>

--
                                        N. Richard Caldwell

Indy car fans will have second-class treatment in Tv scheduling as long
as Indy cars have second-class TV ratings... for example, IC in Detroit
had a 2.8 rating (% of US households that watched) while NASCAR recently
drew a 4.2 rating for a race on a smaller network, TNN.  (Neilson's
TV ratings as reported Nat'l Speed Sport the last few weeks, not juiced
attendance figures from a PR office)

(the Indy 500 drew 8+ % of US HHs...)

IMHO, CARTs current direction of more road racing (which, despite the
preferences of many of the folks on this net, has never been as popular
as oval racing in the US.. look at F1) and fewer US drivers aren't going to
pull their US TV ratings higher.  

US TV ratings are CARTs real vulnerability vs. IRL.  The IRL will have: 1)
all oval races, a plus in US TV ratings (eg., CART has higher ratings on
ovals), 2) hopefully, some well-known grass roots US drivers, again a plus
in US TV ratings, and 3) all-ABC coverage, a big advantage in US ratings again.

CART will have many of the most-familiar teams and drivers, but even with
these, their 2.5-3.5 nielson ratings - with a lower average without NHIS
and Pheonix, could be eclipsed by IRL with all-ovals, a big network, some
familiar added drivers, and better promotion (eg, walt Disney knows a
little about the TV and entertainment biz, and TG has learned a lot about
marketing from NASCAR which is a much better marketer than CART)

Let the TV ratings war begin!