The MS Wheel doesn't hog all your desk space!
--
Kevin "Q" Quattro
VFX Animator
Foundation Imaging
The MS Wheel doesn't hog all your desk space!
--
Kevin "Q" Quattro
VFX Animator
Foundation Imaging
And what is the deal with the apparent limited FF support in F1RS?
I read others with the SC&T wheel claiming all sorts of subtle FF
effects. What doesn't the MS wheel apparently do this?
Also, I went back and looked at both wheels again. The pedal unit
for the Saitek looks like a cheap piece of shit. The pedals themselves
look like very soft plastic which would get scratched and mangled
very easily. And the pedal unit connected to the wheel via a telephone
type of chord. I figure at that point there is very little chance of DOS
support on that unit. The box also says that the Saitek wheel uses the
MS FF technology. So how are the 2 different?
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>--
>Kevin "Q" Quattro
>VFX Animator
>Foundation Imaging
I suppose the pedals wouldn't be too bad with a big wedge shaped chunk
of***supporting it. It would grip the floor better, and the pedals
would be angled right for my sitting position.
Michael.
> >I just bought the MS wheel, and will return it tomorrow. It's ***y
> >awful! The wheel itself works well enough, I suppose. The pedals,
> >though, are light and slide all over, and don't support separating gas
> >from brake.
> The MS wheel does support separate gas and brake. Set up a "profile" using
> the Sidewinder software and make sure you hit the "settings" button in the
> profile editor. Voila, separate gas and brake is one of the options along
> with dead zone and range.
> As to the pedals sliding on the floor, I had the same problem with the T2
> pedals (actually the T2 was worse). I solved it by placing a piece of wood
> (8 to 10 inches wide by maybe 18 inches long) between the back of the pedal
> unit and the wall. Works like a charm, but only if your computer backs up to
> a wall of course.
> >The pedals plug into the back of the wheel housing, and so
> >can't be replaced with proper pedals. In GPL, the wheel is not readable
> >in Generic mode; you need DI to see the wheel at all. There's no hope of
> >getting a usable setup in GPL.
> What's wrong with DirectInput? Works great for me.
> What do you mean by "no hope of getting a usable setup"?
> For what it's worth, I really like the MS wheel. It took some getting used
> to since I was ingrained with the feel of the T2, but I love it now. The MS
> wheel feels slightly "grainy" in its movement (due interior gears I
> suppose), but that didn't bother me for long. Also, the pedals don't have as
> large of a range of movement as the T2 pedals, but again, I adjusted pretty
> quickly. Optical readings mean no calibration or drift (thank God), and I
> like the convenient buttons. The Sidewinder software is dynamite. I'm not
> much into force feedback, although I tried it with MTM2 and it was kind of
> fun.
> The only problem I've had is getting the wheel to work with N2 (DOS in W95
> shell). This is being addressed by MS, but I don't know what the outcome
> will be. Apparently, some people have gotten it to work without a hitch.
> Jim
I suppose the pedals wouldn't be too bad with a big wedge shaped chunk
of***supporting it. It would grip the floor better, and the pedals
would be angled right for my sitting position.
Michael.
> >I just bought the MS wheel, and will return it tomorrow. It's ***y
> >awful! The wheel itself works well enough, I suppose. The pedals,
> >though, are light and slide all over, and don't support separating gas
> >from brake.
> The MS wheel does support separate gas and brake. Set up a "profile" using
> the Sidewinder software and make sure you hit the "settings" button in the
> profile editor. Voila, separate gas and brake is one of the options along
> with dead zone and range.
Michael.
> In addition to what I wrote earlier:
> The MS Wheel doesn't hog all your desk space!
>>For what it's worth, I really like the MS wheel. It took some getting used
>>to since I was ingrained with the feel of the T2, but I love it now. The MS
>>wheel feels slightly "grainy" in its movement (due interior gears I
>>suppose), but that didn't bother me for long. Also, the pedals don't have as
>>large of a range of movement as the T2 pedals, but again, I adjusted pretty
>>quickly. Optical readings mean no calibration or drift (thank God), and I
>>like the convenient buttons. The Sidewinder software is dynamite. I'm not
>>much into force feedback, although I tried it with MTM2 and it was kind of
>>fun.
>I may seriously consider the Saitek wheel. They will have a
>non-force-feedback version based on the MS digital/optical technology.
>Joe
The R4 Force wheel requires Win 95 or 98 to operate. Programs, running in a
dos box, will get Normal wheel, 4 buttons and pedal support, along with the
base forces for centering.
In our testing, with F1RS, and the FF patch, the forces were varied and
pretty good.
Re the pedals: They are very durable. After a week at ECTS, they look like
near new, and they do not break. There seems to be some thinking that
because they are not attached to a huge base, they are inferior. Rather
than brute base weight, which will never withstand the forces of a seated
player, we used the pedal forces to advantage. Pressing on the brake, or the
gas, presses the base firmly into the floor, not away. This is because the
pivot point is well back under your foot. The base is shaped so that ridges
grip carpeting. There are *** feet as well, for smooth floors. We used a
telephone style jack for the pedals, so that it can be extended easily. The
cord quality is good, and that style jack works well in 1/2 a billion
telephones. We route the cable out either side of the pedals, so it can be
pushed up against a desk back or wall with no damage.
Under the hood, they are the same chip, motor, gears, etc. It is a fully
licensed product. Our differences are in the design. The wheel has 3
different angle positions, a stronger clamping mechanism, choice of paddle
shift or stick (6 button switches are independent) dual pedal axis choice in
controller setup.
Mark "Specter" Starrett \ /
Application Specialist _______\_(^)_/________
Saitek Industries Ltd + + *[_|Y|_]* + +
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
>The R4 Force wheel requires Win 95 or 98 to operate. Programs, running in a
>dos box, will get Normal wheel, 4 buttons and pedal support, along with the
>base forces for centering.
>>And what is the deal with the apparent limited FF support in F1RS?
>>I read others with the SC&T wheel claiming all sorts of subtle FF
>>effects. What doesn't the MS wheel apparently do this?
>In our testing, with F1RS, and the FF patch, the forces were varied and
>pretty good.
>Re the pedals: They are very durable. After a week at ECTS, they look like
>near new, and they do not break. There seems to be some thinking that
>because they are not attached to a huge base, they are inferior. Rather
>than brute base weight, which will never withstand the forces of a seated
>player, we used the pedal forces to advantage. Pressing on the brake, or the
>gas, presses the base firmly into the floor, not away. This is because the
>pivot point is well back under your foot. The base is shaped so that ridges
>grip carpeting. There are *** feet as well, for smooth floors. We used a
>telephone style jack for the pedals, so that it can be extended easily. The
>cord quality is good, and that style jack works well in 1/2 a billion
>telephones. We route the cable out either side of the pedals, so it can be
>pushed up against a desk back or wall with no damage.
>> The box also says that the Saitek wheel uses the
>>MS FF technology. So how are the 2 different?
>Under the hood, they are the same chip, motor, gears, etc. It is a fully
>licensed product. Our differences are in the design. The wheel has 3
>different angle positions, a stronger clamping mechanism, choice of paddle
>shift or stick (6 button switches are independent) dual pedal axis choice in
>controller setup.
>Mark "Specter" Starrett \ /
>Application Specialist _______\_(^)_/________
>Saitek Industries Ltd + + *[_|Y|_]* + +
>http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Joe
Joe
I bought the Saitek late last week and it really is crap. You have to
put it together yourself, using a cheap plastic Allen/hex wrench tool,
which is included. Of course, being plastic trying to turn metal
screws, it shredded long before the wheel was tight. I had to use a
real Allen wrench to finish the job. The pedals, in spite of what
they tell you, are awful and do not stay down. The steering wheel is
uncomfortable to drive. The resistance sucks. It takes up a HUGE
amount of desktop space. The one I had would not center and tech
support couldn't figure out why. I could go on and on. Rather than
do that, I returned it yesterday.
Today, I bought the MS Wheel. Man, what a world of difference. The
pedals stay down (they have an elongated base which your heels rest
on). The software is excellent. The wheel feels great in my hands
(although the shifting paddles could be longer!). Easy to configure
buttons. No stupid gearshift, taking up space and making two of the
buttons hard to reach. The software made the wheel incredibly
configurable--and you can save settings for various games. As I
mentioned, I just got the wheel today, but it is incredibly better
than the Saitek.
Try it and see what you think. They are the same price, but I
wouldn't spend $50 on the Saitek. I think the MS Wheel is actually
worth the $199 it cost.
I'll post more as I use the wheel more. Oh, I haven't tried N2 yet.
I've read some people have problems with it, some people have it work
perfectly. I'll tell you it works great in GPL. The Saitek was no
fun to drive--the MS is great fun.
>>To answer a few questions:
>>The R4 Force wheel requires Win 95 or 98 to operate. Programs, running in a
>>dos box, will get Normal wheel, 4 buttons and pedal support, along with the
>>base forces for centering.
>>>And what is the deal with the apparent limited FF support in F1RS?
>>>I read others with the SC&T wheel claiming all sorts of subtle FF
>>>effects. What doesn't the MS wheel apparently do this?
>>In our testing, with F1RS, and the FF patch, the forces were varied and
>>pretty good.
>>Re the pedals: They are very durable. After a week at ECTS, they look like
>>near new, and they do not break. There seems to be some thinking that
>>because they are not attached to a huge base, they are inferior. Rather
>>than brute base weight, which will never withstand the forces of a seated
>>player, we used the pedal forces to advantage. Pressing on the brake, or the
>>gas, presses the base firmly into the floor, not away. This is because the
>>pivot point is well back under your foot. The base is shaped so that ridges
>>grip carpeting. There are *** feet as well, for smooth floors. We used a
>>telephone style jack for the pedals, so that it can be extended easily. The
>>cord quality is good, and that style jack works well in 1/2 a billion
>>telephones. We route the cable out either side of the pedals, so it can be
>>pushed up against a desk back or wall with no damage.
>>> The box also says that the Saitek wheel uses the
>>>MS FF technology. So how are the 2 different?
>>Under the hood, they are the same chip, motor, gears, etc. It is a fully
>>licensed product. Our differences are in the design. The wheel has 3
>>different angle positions, a stronger clamping mechanism, choice of paddle
>>shift or stick (6 button switches are independent) dual pedal axis choice in
>>controller setup.
>>Mark "Specter" Starrett \ /
>>Application Specialist _______\_(^)_/________
>>Saitek Industries Ltd + + *[_|Y|_]* + +
>>http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> The Saitek wheel is a piece of mickey mouse junk. I saw it at Best
> Buy and laughed my ass off. What a joke when compared to the MS
> Wheel!
l8er
ronny
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|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car,
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This wheel requires less assembly than a T2 or Nascar, and is a 2 minute
job. The tool is designed to
protect against overtightening. When used as directed (not extended) it will
not strip, unless excess force is used. The extended mode is for tightening
resistance of the R4 Racing wheel, our non-force-feedback variant.
The resistance is IDENTICAL to the Microsoft. Same motor, same drivers, same
gears.
Technical support hadn't encountered this. We were able to duplicate it by
doing things I won't publish, because there's no point, but it was easy to
resolve by powering the unit down, disconnecting the power supply, and
reconnecting. The unit re-centered. The same issue was duplicated with the
MS wheel. We responded to you the same day, but you had already exchanged
the unit.
Many users want the realism of a stick. The majority of racing vehicles have
a separate shifter. The design is based on what gamer surveys asked for.
Mark "Specter" Starrett \ /
Application Specialist _______\_(^)_/________
Saitek Industries Ltd + + *[_|Y|_]* + +
http://www.saitekusa.com
>Mark "Specter" Starrett \ /
>Application Specialist _______\_(^)_/________
>Saitek Industries Ltd + + *[_|Y|_]* + +
>http://www.saitekusa.com
>Also, compare apples to apples--I don't care how much assembly it
>takes compared to a T2 or a Nascar. Why not mention how much it takes
>compared to the MS wheel? No attaching the wheel, no screwing in the
>clamp, no height adjustment (might be a benefit for some, but I didn't
>like that part--just my opinion).
>>> The resistance sucks.
>>The resistance is IDENTICAL to the Microsoft. Same motor, same drivers, same
>>gears.
>Feels different when I'm driving in a non-FF game. With the Saitek
>with FF off, the wheel was way too loose. With FF on, the resitance
>didn't feel correct and seemed to be dragging, or something. I can't
>put it into words. The wheel was definitely not as configurable
>through the control panel software as the MS one is, and that may be
>part of the problem.
>>> The one I had would not center and tech support couldn't figure out why.
>>Technical support hadn't encountered this. We were able to duplicate it by
>>doing things I won't publish, because there's no point, but it was easy to
>>resolve by powering the unit down, disconnecting the power supply, and
>>reconnecting. The unit re-centered. The same issue was duplicated with the
>>MS wheel. We responded to you the same day, but you had already exchanged
>>the unit.
>You responded several days later to my original email. If you want to
>make accusations that I was impatient, you had better have your facts
>straight:
>My first email was sent on Friday, October 16th with a clear
>description of the problem.
>Your first reply was on Tuesday, October 18th, asking a question. I
>replied that evening.
>Your next reply was the next day, Wednesday, October 19th. That is
>when I returned the wheel, BEFORE I had received your reply.
>I received another email from you guys later that day with the
>suggested fix you list above. I had already tried that and it didn't
>fix the problem. The MS wheel doesn't have this problem, nor can I
>duplicate it.
>Mark, I am not implying that your tech support handled this poorly.
>On the contrary, I think they did a great job. I just didn't like the
>implication that "you responded the same day but I was too impatient
>and just dumped the wheel."
>Basically, even if the suggested fix had worked, the wheel was too
>uncomfortable, the pedals too light, and the deskspace required was
>too great for me to keep the wheel. In other words, the parts of my
>original post which you chose not to respond to.
>>> No stupid gearshift, taking up space and making two of the
>>> buttons hard to reach.
>>Many users want the realism of a stick. The majority of racing vehicles have
>>a separate shifter. The design is based on what gamer surveys asked for.
>Point granted. I shouldn't have referred to it as "stupid" just
>because I preferred having the buttons on the wheel.
>>Mark "Specter" Starrett \ /
>>Application Specialist _______\_(^)_/________
>>Saitek Industries Ltd + + *[_|Y|_]* + +
>>http://www.racesimcentral.net/
>--
>Rick Worrell
>Sports *** Network
>http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com