rec.autos.simulators

> Looks like the good one with the red pcb, which is *supposedly* the same
as
> the 9700's.  $158 shipped.

> Fingers crossed, mine's on the way they say...

> Plus, it seems there are pre-modded ones for a bit more ($199) at:
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> Meanwhile, for some sim-relevant benchmarks of a 9700 Pro vs the Geforce
FX,
> extremetech has some info at:

> http://www.racesimcentral.net/,3973,846378,00.asp

> "Baseline NASCAR 2002: Radeon 9700 Pro ahead by 26%"
> "NASCAR 2002 with FSAA & AF: Radeon 9700 Pro ahead by 44%"
> "For NASCAR 2002, ATI carried the day on both test conditions, and in both
> cases, was ahead by a very respectable margin."

> If you're willing to turn off of the card's features like AA and AF, a
> Geforce 4 runs either NR2K2 or the new demo of  NR2K3 fine at a high
> framerate, but if you want it ALL, ATI's looking pretty good.  Their AA
> definitely looks better than Nvidia's, particularly  at low angles.  We'll
> see!

> SB

> > Steve,

> > I'm also interested in the Sapphire Radeon 9500 (especially with the
> tweaking
> > possibilities), but Newegg is currently out of stock.  8-(

> > So, where did you order it from and what price did you get it for?

> > Thanks,
> > Bert

> > > Reading the long-awaited FX reviews today spurred the tweaker in me to
> order
> > > an OEM Sapphire 9500 so that I can try out the Rivatuner Soft 9700
> option.
> > > May work, may not; so a safe bet for the risk averse would be the 9700
> Pro
> > > or even the regular 9700, which blows the Ti 4600's away with AA & AF
> > > cranked up and can be had for around $225.  (As does a 9500 Pro, for
> that
> > > matter).  Looks like the first FX's may be a generation to skip;
> especially
> > > until the prices drop from $399 and the drivers mature.

> > > If the 9500-to-9700 thing works, it'll be a great low-cost upgrade
> that'll
> > > get me through '03; especially since I've already got a taker for my
> Leadtek
> > > Ti4400.  I'll let you guys know how it turns out... ;-)

> > > SB

> > > > The whole ATI driver issue is a hoax if you ask me.  ATI drivers
were
> > > > suspect to problems about 15 months ago and before but since then
> they've
> > > > fixed those problems, provide frequent updates, and with the
Catalyst
> > > > drivers, are easily far superior to Nvidia drivers IMO.  Go read
some
> of
> > > the
> > > > new GF FX reviews on the web that back up that claim.  The FSAA and
> Anios
> > > > quality and speed are better on the ATI card and the FX has some
> issues
> > > with
> > > > texture corruption on their new FX.  Even the CPU limited
benchmarks,
> > > which
> > > > are a good measure of the effeciency of the drivers, are much better
> for
> > > > ATI.

> > > > -Tim

> > > > > Upgrading from XP1500+  to a 2400+.  I want to run the new N2003
> with
> > > all
> > > > > details on,  full field, 4xaa.  I currently have a GF3 TI 200.
> Should I
> > > > get
> > > > > a GF 4600, ATI 9700 pro or the new FX?  My concern with the FX
might
> be
> > > > the
> > > > > sound.  My cocern with the ATI is I hear about driver issues.
What
> kind
> > > > of
> > > > > issues in particular?  Thanks.

> > > > > running windows xp

> They have!  There was a link in my post... ;-)

>><snip>
>><I'm amazed that some enterprising mail order firm hasn't started selling
>>"pre-tested" 9500 --->9700 Pro cards for a premium charge.>

>>They have!  There was a link in my post... ;-)

> Whoops, I missed that... thanks for the below link.  I see that one is a
> hardware mod, I wonder how long it will be before we see one that's been
> software mod tested only?  I would think that would be less of a hassle for
> the entrepenuer...

>>< Please keep us posted... we're rooting for you man!>

>>Much appreciated; I hope to please!

>>(mentioned link)

>>>Plus, it seems there are pre-modded ones for a bit more ($199) at:

>>http://www.bulletpc.com/Qstore/p000293.htm

>>Note: they're only about $25 less than a regular 9700, which is a pretty
>>safe bet to run at Pro speed anyway, and they'll all be cheaper in a

> couple

>>of months or so when the ATI 9900's ascend to the top of their food chain.
>>Some of us just like to tempt fate... ;-)

> I'm one of those who isn't afraid to tempt fate.  I'm on a winning streak
> with my modding and overclocking experiences of late, and I'm feeling just
> sassy enough to take on the challenge of an untested Sapphire 9500 ;-)  I'll
> still wait on your results - my cash flow leaves me no other choice at the
> moment!

> John

message

> >><snip>
> >><I'm amazed that some enterprising mail order firm hasn't started
selling
> >>"pre-tested" 9500 --->9700 Pro cards for a premium charge.>

> >>They have!  There was a link in my post... ;-)

> > Whoops, I missed that... thanks for the below link.  I see that one is a
> > hardware mod, I wonder how long it will be before we see one that's been
> > software mod tested only?  I would think that would be less of a hassle
for
> > the entrepenuer...

> >>< Please keep us posted... we're rooting for you man!>

> >>Much appreciated; I hope to please!

> >>(mentioned link)

> >>>Plus, it seems there are pre-modded ones for a bit more ($199) at:

> >>http://www.bulletpc.com/Qstore/p000293.htm

> >>Note: they're only about $25 less than a regular 9700, which is a pretty
> >>safe bet to run at Pro speed anyway, and they'll all be cheaper in a

> > couple

> >>of months or so when the ATI 9900's ascend to the top of their food
chain.
> >>Some of us just like to tempt fate... ;-)

> > I'm one of those who isn't afraid to tempt fate.  I'm on a winning
streak
> > with my modding and overclocking experiences of late, and I'm feeling
just
> > sassy enough to take on the challenge of an untested Sapphire 9500 ;-)
I'll
> > still wait on your results - my cash flow leaves me no other choice at
the
> > moment!

> > John

> > Don't want to be a pessimist, but a coworker tried 2 sapphire 9500s, and
> got the
> > "checkerboard" effect on both, using software mod only. On the brightside,
> they
> > did have lots of headroom for overclocking. He has returned both and has a
> > 9500Pro on order. Best of luck.
> > Ken

> No problem Ken... this is the kind of feedback I need to be hearing.  I
> think this 70% success rate number some have put forth also includes those
> exhibiting the checkboard effect.  To me that's not a "success".

> >What is your Radeon not compatible with?

> >-Tim

> Ok, ot completely incompatible but there are games it shows glitches
> in. Two I can think of right now are the 2D***pits in EAW and
> transparency overlays in Heavy Gear 2. And don't say, 'so what, they
> are old games" like one dork did today in the flight sim group. I'm
> telling you as fact and not opinion, Nvidia has better drivers and not
> ATI. I wonder what you based your opinion on though?
> --
> "Paw, I'm powerful hungry!"

> >Same as you, I base me opinions on my own experiences and I have not
> >experienced those glitches.  Don't have HG2 but do have EAW but haven't
> >fired it up in a long time.  Maybe I'll do so and let you know if I have
> >similar issues.

> >Both Nvidia and ATI make good drivers.  Both could very well have issues
> >with some old games and new games.  That's just the nature of this hobby.

> >-Tim

> Yes, but I know which has the best compatibility because I have both
> an R8500 and GF4 here . I used to have a R8500 in this PC I'm on now
> and am well aware of what ATI drivers are like. There is another PC
> here right now with an R8500LE in it so I am still aware of what the
> ATI latest drivers are like. You said the ATI drivers are *better*
> than Nvidia's which I know for a fact is not true.
> --
> "Paw, I'm powerful hungry!"

> >Then why is it that Nvidia is able to launch new drivers 4 months down
the
> >road that magically add 30% increase to framerates?  This seems to be a
> >common occurrence for all Nvidia product cycles.  Is it because they have
a
> >great driver team?  Or is it because it takes them 4 months to finally
make
> >drivers that perform to the cards abilities?  It is the latter.

> >Why is it that Nvidia requires users to constantly shift between
different
> >driver versions in order to play different games?  The nvidia driver
shuffle
> >has been going on since the TNT2 days.  That's not good drivers.

> >It amazes me how some people will defend them as having the best drivers
> >when they subject their customers to those problems and brainwash them
into
> >thinking it is a 'good thing'.

> >-Tim

> None of what you say is true so you go *** a lamp post.

> >Like I said.... Brainwash.

>***you, didn't I tell you already that I have a Radeon 8500 here?
> Considering that, how can I possibly be brainwashed into buying only
> one companies hardware?

> >P.S.-Watch your mouth pal.

> Or?
> --
> "Paw, I'm powerful hungry!"