rec.autos.simulators

by **Doug Justic** » Sun, 08 Jul 2001 07:54:30

Nascar isn't the highest level of competition? I beg to differ. America's
premier drivers aspire to Nascar not CART. The best to come through in a
long time are both in Nascar (Jeff Gordon & Tony Stewart). Because that's
where the best drivers are that's what people are following. The RACING is
also fantastic.

Doug

by **Mickey Kerke** » Sun, 08 Jul 2001 08:25:20

Cart now has only 1 American driver. All the drivers in Nascar are
American. Back when Cart had almost all American drivers it was the
#1 auto racing curcuit here in the states.

by **Dave Henri** » Sun, 08 Jul 2001 08:27:28

There are several reasons why nascar is more popular than Cart. First of
all, the CART series went through a split with the IRL league about 6 years
ago..This really confused the casual fans and reduced the appeal of CART.
2nd. THe big names in CARt, the Andretti's, the Unsers, etc have past
their prime and don't have the drawing power they used to.
3rd. most of the drivers currently in CART are non-American. I don't say
this to be Xenophobic but to show that the American viewing public seems to
prefer watching Americans.
4th All during the above chaos in CART, Nascar was doing everything right.
They got better TV exposure, they used thier built in brand awareness to
attract viewers, they kept the driver field relatively stable by using the
'provisional' system that allowed big names a 2nd chance to make a race.
So when you take away the biggest race in the world, the Indy 500, and
your driver base is less recognizable, and your broadcasts keep getting cut
off to show golf, then the lower TV rating are simple to explain.
dave henrie

> If I'm going into a wall I would like the speed to be below 20mph. That
> doesn't make 30mph high speed.
> Nascar speed is slow *relative* to CART. The point is that NASCAR isn't
the
> highest level of competition in it's area (unless you limit it to stock
car
> racing). Why isn't CART more popular than NASCAR? It's also american and
> they race on many of the same circuits.

> TF

> > >What is the fascination about Nascar? The cars are slow and poorly
suited
> to
> > >racing compared to CART. If the point is too watch "slow" cars racing,
> then

> > 180mph is slow.......riiiiiiiiight. Why don't I send you into a wall at
> 180mph
> > and you tell me how "slow" it is.
> > Racer X
> > Veteran Sim Racer
> > #4 Corvette C5-R in the GTIC
> > #24 Monte Carlo in the DORL
> > Victory Lane-
> > http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

by **ra300** » Sun, 08 Jul 2001 11:46:52

CART cars were reaching top speeds at Michigan of about 255-260 MPH.

by **ra300** » Sun, 08 Jul 2001 11:48:20

On Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:54:30 -0400, "Doug Justice"

>> If I'm going into a wall I would like the speed to be below 20mph. That
>> doesn't make 30mph high speed.
>> Nascar speed is slow *relative* to CART. The point is that NASCAR isn't
>the
>> highest level of competition in it's area (unless you limit it to stock
>car
>> racing). Why isn't CART more popular than NASCAR? It's also american and
>> they race on many of the same circuits.

>> TF

>Nascar isn't the highest level of competition? I beg to differ. America's
>premier drivers aspire to Nascar not CART. The best to come through in a
>long time are both in Nascar (Jeff Gordon & Tony Stewart). Because that's
>where the best drivers are that's what people are following. The RACING is
>also fantastic.

It's not racing. It's a show but it's not racing. Racing is about a
driver following another driver lap after lap. Finally, after
analyzing his every move and every part of his style, he finally jumps
on the inside and outbrakes him. That my friend is racing!

NASCAR is purely for show. I used to watch NASCAR--when I was 12.

by **ra300** » Sun, 08 Jul 2001 11:49:09

On Fri, 06 Jul 2001 16:25:20 -0700, Mickey Kerkes

>>If I'm going into a wall I would like the speed to be below 20mph. That
>>doesn't make 30mph high speed.
>>Nascar speed is slow *relative* to CART. The point is that NASCAR isn't the
>>highest level of competition in it's area (unless you limit it to stock car
>>racing). Why isn't CART more popular than NASCAR? It's also american and
>>they race on many of the same circuits.

>>TF

>Cart now has only 1 American driver. All the drivers in Nascar are
>American. Back when Cart had almost all American drivers it was the
>#1 auto racing curcuit here in the states.

The US was about seeing the best athletes. Is it not? If Helio
Castoneves is better than Alex Barron, then I want to see Helio!

by **Rafe McAulif** » Sun, 08 Jul 2001 12:10:59

Well, here in Australia, I'd say that V8 Supercars (touring cars)
would be a slim winner over F1. GP Bikes would come 3rd.

Then you'd have a mix of CART, superbikes, rallying, FFord, FHolden,
top fuel drag racing, sprintcars, Nascar (local and US) and Auscar,
etc. And IRL last :)

V8 supercars are the most popular here for the same reasons that
NASCAR is popular in the US. Local, home grown series which began as
standard production cars, with the best drivers in Australia. Add in
the fact that they are lighter and more nimble than NASCAR, develop
600 hp and go round right hand corners, the appeal is obvious. The
personalities and charisma of the Aussie drivers also adds to the
appeal. Apparently the v8 races at the Aust. GP are the only ones the
f1 mechanics ever stop to watch.

NASCAR died a slow death here, despite having a local competition.
Aussies aren't generally interested in oval track racing, and there
are only two real nascar circuits here as well. Drags are way more
popular!

Rafe Mc

>hi all.

>i've read many posts about Nascar's popularity with regards to TV
>Support, Video game sales (compared to GPL), etc

>Can some of you put this in perspective please?

>In South Africa, from my perceptions of people I speak to, the most
>popular racing would have to be Formula one. Next up would be
>something like ..wait let's make a quick list.

>F1
>F1 - Bikes
>Touring Cars (british & south african)
>International Superbikes
>Local Saloon car races (production & modified)
>Rallying (local & international)
>CART + Indy 500
>Local Bike racing
>Local Motocross
>Nascar & variants.
>World Endurance (Le Mans) type races.
>IRL

>Sorry if I miss out something obvious.

>I guess some of the items on the list can be bumped up or down a notch
>to cater for different people's tastes (again, people I know & what I
>see on local TV).

>Also, I would give F1 a lions share of public interest, say 40% and
>let the other formula fight over the rest. I would reckon that public
>interest and awareness is probably in the region of 1% of the sports
>watchers here(popular sports here being rugby, cricket, soccer, etc).

>How does this compare elsewhere?

>Also, I'm not really concerned with R.A.S. type people's individual
>taste, but of the general population where they live.

>I want to know why Nascar games are such a big seller compared to
>other racing titles. In SA we can't even buy Nascar Heat. With all
>the cool addons for it, it would be nice to check it out.

>Regards all
>Regards all,
>istoff

>"Its easy to get lost in thought
>if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

by **Philip D'Amat** » Sun, 08 Jul 2001 12:22:39

Oh, you English are soooo superior.

--

Philip D'Amato

> On Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:53:28 +0100, "Racecraft"

> >Well Americans love NASCAR and the USA is the most important country in
the
> >world!
> hehe.

> i feel a John Cleese quote coming on. :) I wish I had it at hand to
> type it in now...

> Regards all,
> istoff

> "Its easy to get lost in thought
> if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

by **Dave Henri** » Sun, 08 Jul 2001 12:22:05

hmmmmmmmm lets see, how many laps did it take the WORLDS #2 driver to
find a way around a very sorry backmarker at Monaco...THAT? was racing?
dave henrie

by **Philip D'Amat** » Sun, 08 Jul 2001 12:38:35

I've read through this thread, and it's not easy to quantify what popularity
is because popularity - be definition - is based on opinion. I'll say this
though: NASCAR is popular in the US - at least in part - because the drivers
and teams are people that you can identify with. I've met several drivers -
and they each took the time to speak with me. I can *identify* with many of
them (for reasons that may or may not be real). I cannot *identify* with
someone who has a compensation package (including endor***ts) that total
an estimated US$ 118 mil (Michael Schumacher of F1). I happen to enjoy many
different types of racing (NASCAR, F1, GP bikes, AMA bikes, that wonderful
Speedvision GT & TC series, WRC, and that astounding lawn tractor racing -
Go John Deere! - that Speedvision runs occasionally). With the possible
exception of the Lawnmower series, NASCAR drivers are the most accessible in
the sport, and they drive cars that you can (mostly) identify with (they
have fenders, for example). There's bright colors flying by, loud lovely
engine sounds, the *most fun to watch pit stops and strategies, loud
obnoxious (fellow) fans, etc. Plus, they run most every week. F1 (for
example) comes to town once a year - and this after not being in the US for
many years. And Indy isn't the most convenient place for me to see a race
(I live near Pocono, where I see Winston Cup racing live twice a year).

Aside from my opinions, I read a decent history of racing (can't remember
the title) that talked about the historical preference in the US for oval
tracks (vs road courses in Europe). The oval track popularity came from the
ready availability 100+ years ago of dirt track ovals used for horse
racing - another popular US sport. Someone decided a long time ago that
this is where the cars should run too (in the US).

--

Philip D'Amato

> hi all.

> i've read many posts about Nascar's popularity with regards to TV
> Support, Video game sales (compared to GPL), etc

> Can some of you put this in perspective please?

> In South Africa, from my perceptions of people I speak to, the most
> popular racing would have to be Formula one. Next up would be
> something like ..wait let's make a quick list.

> F1
> F1 - Bikes
> Touring Cars (british & south african)
> International Superbikes
> Local Saloon car races (production & modified)
> Rallying (local & international)
> CART + Indy 500
> Local Bike racing
> Local Motocross
> Nascar & variants.
> World Endurance (Le Mans) type races.
> IRL

> Sorry if I miss out something obvious.

> I guess some of the items on the list can be bumped up or down a notch
> to cater for different people's tastes (again, people I know & what I
> see on local TV).

> Also, I would give F1 a lions share of public interest, say 40% and
> let the other formula fight over the rest. I would reckon that public
> interest and awareness is probably in the region of 1% of the sports
> watchers here(popular sports here being rugby, cricket, soccer, etc).

> How does this compare elsewhere?

> Also, I'm not really concerned with R.A.S. type people's individual
> taste, but of the general population where they live.

> I want to know why Nascar games are such a big seller compared to
> other racing titles. In SA we can't even buy Nascar Heat. With all
> the cool addons for it, it would be nice to check it out.

> Regards all
> Regards all,
> istoff

> "Its easy to get lost in thought
> if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

by **Scott Moor** » Sun, 08 Jul 2001 12:42:27

> hi all.

> i've read many posts about Nascar's popularity with regards to TV
> Support, Video game sales (compared to GPL), etc

> Can some of you put this in perspective please?

Just keep this in mind, and you'll understand why NASCAR is popular.
Here in the USA, some other popular things are:
Professional wrestling
Jerry Springer
American Football
The NBA
Steven Seagal and Stallone movies
Survivor
The Deer Hunter PC games
Big, stupid looking 4WD vehicles that never leave the asphalt
McDonalds and Burger King

So, you see? NASCAR fits right in to this group and the fascination we
Americans have with crap.

Hope that helped... ;)

by **Sean Higgin** » Sun, 08 Jul 2001 14:35:45

Hey I have a big 4wd vehicle that never leaves the asphalt! LOL It looks
cool! I don't want to break it. I used to be a big NASCAR fan when
there was more short track racing. All these C***te clone tracks are
getting boring. My favorite now is F1, then CART.

--

Sean Higgins

Redline Racing League
www.rrlnrs.com

Redline BGN Division
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~higgy/RRL/

by **Rafe McAulif** » Sun, 08 Jul 2001 16:18:53

lol, too true!

>> hi all.

>> i've read many posts about Nascar's popularity with regards to TV
>> Support, Video game sales (compared to GPL), etc

>> Can some of you put this in perspective please?

>Just keep this in mind, and you'll understand why NASCAR is popular.
>Here in the USA, some other popular things are:
>Professional wrestling
>Jerry Springer
>American Football
>The NBA
>Steven Seagal and Stallone movies
>Survivor
>The Deer Hunter PC games
>Big, stupid looking 4WD vehicles that never leave the asphalt
>McDonalds and Burger King

>So, you see? NASCAR fits right in to this group and the fascination we
>Americans have with crap.

>Hope that helped... ;)

by **Scott Moor** » Sun, 08 Jul 2001 16:27:38

LOL- I figured I'd catch someone with that one, Sean....it's a free country,
and choice of vehicles is part of that. Hell, I have a minivan and a full
size pick up<g>.
I agree with you on the short tracks- that and the 2 roadies a year are the
only things that made NASCAR even slightly interesting. Gets really bad when
half the tracks are clones of one another.

> --

> Sean Higgins

> Redline Racing League
> www.rrlnrs.com

> Redline BGN Division
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/~higgy/RRL/

> > > hi all.

> > > i've read many posts about Nascar's popularity with regards to TV
> > > Support, Video game sales (compared to GPL), etc

> > > Can some of you put this in perspective please?

> > Just keep this in mind, and you'll understand why NASCAR is popular.
> > Here in the USA, some other popular things are:
> > Professional wrestling
> > Jerry Springer
> > American Football
> > The NBA
> > Steven Seagal and Stallone movies
> > Survivor
> > The Deer Hunter PC games
> > Big, stupid looking 4WD vehicles that never leave the asphalt
> > McDonalds and Burger King

> > So, you see? NASCAR fits right in to this group and the fascination we
> > Americans have with crap.

> > Hope that helped... ;)

by **David Butte** » Sun, 08 Jul 2001 18:38:05

Ah, so you've recognised it at last :-)

--
David. (GPLRank handicap -6.57; Monsters of GPL +271.79)
The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

rec.autos.simulators

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