rec.autos.simulators

I've only been driving about 3 months now with my driver's permit still, I
don't even have my license yet, so I THANKFULLY haven't run into any real
trouble yet.  The worst I've had is someone pulling out right in front of me,
requiring some very quick braking.  That and when my driving instructor wanted
me to spin the rear tires and try to go straight in heavy snow and ice.  :)

-----------------------------------------
Dan Belcher
Team Racing Unlimited
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

What makes you think they can't and you can?

Jan.
=---

LOL ;-) How true.

Jan.
=---

On Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:14:14 +0100, "Jan Verschueren"

Personally - and I started this thread - I know I can drive, but I am
even more aware of the fact that alot of people can't. As such, I am
careful, responsible, and do NOT drive around like i'm racing. Some
people seem to think that, because I feel simming sharpens your
reflexes and "feel" for a car, that I act like a moron behind the
wheel.

I thought I made all this fairly clear in my original post, but again
to reiterate - I believe that spending alot of time driving decent
racing sims has made me more aware of how to react to an emergency
situation while driving a road car. Nothing to do with driving
technique, nothing to do with getting to and from work in "record
time" - just being able to keep the car under control when, without
the "training" sims provide, I could well have ended up swerving
across the road into traffic, or locking the brakes and sliding into
someones living room, or whatever else.

I was hoping to promote a bit of discussion about this, and was hoping
someone might be able to relate similar experinces, or even better
experience with road car simulations - I think such a thing would be a
great idea in schools and such. Granted, some people did - but I also
got pinned as an irresponsible driver, when I most definately am not -
thats another thing i've learned from simming, BTW, Accidents can
happen to anyone.

DG

Agreed. There are too many drivers, specially young males, who think
they are so good at driving, just because they can put the throttle to
the floor and drive fast. It's not about that at all. A good driver is
one who can drive for A to B with minimum risk, smooth and comfortable
for the passengers and still goes with the traffic flow. But at the
same time good reflexes and knowing what to do in a critical
situation is essential. I remember last year I was driving back from
the ski resort, the back end of the front wheel drive Golf got loose
which is a pretty scary thing. I think I saved the car with a little
opposite lock and neutral trottle, and it wasn't until afterwards when
I started to think about what really happened I got scared.

Here at work we hope to be able to do some research on that matter in
the coming months. A driver behaviour researcher here is totally into
driving games, and he promotes the idea that simming or even arcade
*** on a playstation helps building the right reflexes.

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove .spam when replying

Yep. The incident that led to my original post was the same - i got
home before I turned white. I was only a few hundred metres from home,
granted, but at the time I wasn't even shaken. A little angry, but the
only reason I yelled at the idiot who pulled out in front of me was to
make them remember it, and hopefully take a bit more care in the
future (I ended up shaking her hand and telling her to take care - i'm
really a softie at heart). But still, I wasn't suffering from the
stress you might expect. When I got home though, and had time to
reflect, I realised I coulda died.

I don't know if this is down to simming either - when in a race, you
focus on getting to the finish. Once you finish, you have time to
reflect. Maybe this is a habit I picked up racing, not realising how
much I am sliding around, or how loose i'm getting, forgetting all the
little racing incidents until the race is done, being "in the zone".
I'm also not necessarilly sure this is all good, although it does help
you focus, rather than lose concentration every time something nearly
goes wrong - which when you think about it, can be quite alot in city
traffic.

Cool. Vindication :-)
Seriously I think it is something well worth looking into - surely the
technology exists to make a very realistic simulation of real-world
driving. It's just that racing sims sell better.
If schools and governments could show some interest, though, i'm sure
some of the creators of the more realistic racing sims would be among
those to put their hand up for a contract.

One concern I have with "learning from a racing sim", is that while
the reflexes and feel can be improved, it would almost certainly also
teach bad habits - attempting to slipstream highway traffic is not a
good idea, for example - especially to inexperienced drivers without
experience in traffic to temper any racing instinct they develop.
That's why I like the traffic school simulator idea.

DG

And I feel sorry for the 'innocents' in a multi-car pileup.  You know that just
ONE idiot screwed up, and collected everyone else.
Someone had a sig at one time:
Getting hit by a meteor is an accident.  Everything else is driver error...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Hehe, yes, we learn to brake harder by braking less hard. :)
Esp. when you've entered a braking torque curve you see the good in
that, and ofcourse if you know how ABS works.
I recognize something in the 'three open lanes' thing; I once saved
myself from getting a bit crowded in a suddenly stopping lane by
actually getting OFF the brakes so I regained more steering control so
I could quickly switch to a different lane (different *direction* more
lol). All teached from GPL; getting weight back on the front wheels
for more steering traction.

Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25
Pencil art    : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/
Car simulation: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

No offence Mr. Goat (for want of a better salutation), but I agree 100% with
your post. I was attempting to challenge the view of Mr. Jaf, not yours.

Like you say, knowing you can do something if you have to is being able to
say to yourself, "yup, I handled that situation correctly." And when do you
handle a situation correctly? when you know from experience how to act in
that given situation. This is where the validity of the sim comes in. All
the worlds airlines and all the worlds airforces wouldn't spend mega bucks
training pilots for emergencies in simulators if they didn't think it would
pay off in real life. And some of those I've seen I'd call less than
immersive at that.

When I listen to people talk about accidents "I was totally unprepared
for.." and "I didn't expect him/her/the car to..." are frequently used
sentences. For people driving sims "the unexpected" has more than likely
already happened more than once. They are prepared.

Is a simmer automatically a traffic rodeo rider? -No, personally I'm
earmarked as the most "boring" driver in my immediate family and circle of
friends. Makes me wonder why I'm always selected as the designated driver
for going out and family reunions.<g> I think it was Jaques Villeneuve who
said "you don't realise how fast you're going until you come unstuck". I
bear that in mind at all times. I'm sure most roads can be driven far faster
than the speed limit allows, it's just the consequences build up in case it
gets away from you or something unexpected happens.

Jan.
=---

I find that simming does help with real world driving.. as ong as you
remember which is which. :)

I once flipped my car because I zoned out and thought I was playing
Need For Speed. :)  (I'm not kidding)

RB

Whoa...  Did you just take a turn too fast, without braking?  I take it no one
got hurt because you put a smiley on the end...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

If the games helped teach you to pay attention while driving, I would guess
they helped plenty.

I feel strongly that you should be cursing your inattentiveness instead of
praising your reaction. You need to be asking yourself if you couldn't have
avoided the nonincident altogether through some action you might have taken.
An honest appraisal needs to conclude yes, even if the only reasonable
alternative was to hone your psychic abilities starting a year before. (Go
hone your mind reading skills, then; you're already a year behind. Your goal
is to be aware of all the activity around you, where each car is, and where
it's going to be three seconds from now.)

Mike.

On Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:13:40 -0600, "Michael Young"

Ah but see, I DID see the 4WD there, and that is part of the reason I
was able to avoid it. I didn't expect it to move, but I was prepared
for it to do so. Again, I think simming plays a part, though possibly
not as much of a part as it does in developing reflexes. In simming,
you have to know where competitors are and  try to guess what they are
going to do - same on the street, only they aren't competitors there.

DG