rec.autos.simulators

by **Tony Jo** » Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:00:00

> > I let the car sit with
> > spinning wheels for about 5 minutes, still cool tires and no gas use.
> > There goes my idea of warming the back tires just before qual. :(

> That's pretty much why I decided to not have the wheelspin heat the rear
> tires and burn fuel. (to prevent unrealistic cheating in qualifying)...

> I see the wheelspin as designed to allow you to more quickly right the
> car when you spin and come to rest backwards. I tried pretty hard to
> keep it from being usable as a cheating crutch...

> ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

Good for you Jim!!! ;-) Keep up the great work. Love the game. Patch
those minor bugs for us as soon as you can. Have a great holiday. Take
some time to enjoy!

Thanks again,

Tony Joy

by **Robert Johnso** » Wed, 18 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Spoil sport!

:-)

by **Lannie Schafro** » Thu, 19 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Now why would you need to backup to get out of the pits? Turn the wheel
all the way to the right, and go. No problem.. Is your Wheel LOCK way
too low?

--

Lannie Schafroth

by **thomas mezzacap** » Thu, 19 Dec 1996 04:00:00

> >Very nicely done Jim. Thanks.
> >I personally love the wheelspin feature since I hated having to baack up
> >to get out of my pit.

> >Ed

> Now why would you need to backup to get out of the pits? Turn the wheel
> all the way to the right, and go. No problem.. Is your Wheel LOCK way
> too low?

> --

> Lannie Schafroth

try running the short tracks, then you'll know why.

by **John Daughert** » Thu, 19 Dec 1996 04:00:00

> Now why would you need to backup to get out of the pits? Turn the wheel
> all the way to the right, and go. No problem.. Is your Wheel LOCK way
> too low?

> --

> Lannie Schafroth

You must run 10 or more wheel lock at Talladega and some of the
other large tracks, your not going to get the speed out of them
with it set like that.You only need a 7 wheel lock at Dega, I think
thats why the wheel spin is so nice. Try it,you`ll see some more
speed at the larger tracks.

by **Eric T. Busc** » Thu, 19 Dec 1996 04:00:00

I guess you haven't messed with the track.txt files to increase the
maximum number of cars. Try getting out of your pitstall at Sear Point
with 39 other cars without using wheel spin or reverse.

--

Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
The IWCCCARS Project: Q & A Representative
Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/

by **Wayne William** » Thu, 19 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Jim,

I can see the logic in your decision but in real life I always punished the
tires
coming out of pit lane and on the first lap just for this specific reason.
I wonder if you could inlcude some monitoring that would detect ridiculous
behavior such as sitting against the pit mall with tires spinning and allow
the car to behave more like the real thing with respect to wheel spin.

Regards,
---Wayne.

> > > I let the car sit with
> > > spinning wheels for about 5 minutes, still cool tires and no gas use.
> > > There goes my idea of warming the back tires just before qual. :(

> > That's pretty much why I decided to not have the wheelspin heat the
rear
> > tires and burn fuel. (to prevent unrealistic cheating in qualifying)...

> > I see the wheelspin as designed to allow you to more quickly right the
> > car when you spin and come to rest backwards. I tried pretty hard to
> > keep it from being usable as a cheating crutch...

> > ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus
> Good for you Jim!!! ;-) Keep up the great work. Love the game. Patch
> those minor bugs for us as soon as you can. Have a great holiday. Take
> some time to enjoy!

> Thanks again,

> Tony Joy

by **ra..** » Fri, 20 Dec 1996 04:00:00

>>Very nicely done Jim. Thanks.
>>I personally love the wheelspin feature since I hated having to baack up
>>to get out of my pit.

>>Ed

>Now why would you need to backup to get out of the pits? Turn the wheel
>all the way to the right, and go. No problem.. Is your Wheel LOCK way
>too low?

>--

>Lannie Schafroth

I have a question for Jim (Papyrus), What did you guys do to the wheel
lock on the cars?
I was doing a little testing the other day. The turning radius of the car
does not change *AT ALL* from about 9 degrees to 25 degrees. I was checking
this at Charolette I think it was.
I have a wheel that lets me run full wheel lock at all of the tracks.
Again, what did you guys change from Nascar1? Why have the wheel
lock option at all if it does not change the angle of the wheels in a full-turn
situation?
It does appear to alter the sensitivity on the track....but if that is what
it is doing....shouldn't it be called something like "Steering Sensitivity"?
It works OK the way it is now, but I am curious as to what you changed
and why.
If anyone else wants to test this out, I would be interested in your results.
The way I was doing it was to park right up against the inside wall, turn
your wheels all the way to the right, ease on the throttle(so as not to invoke the
wheel-spin option) and do a full 360 degree turn, noting where on the track the
farthest part of your turn ended up. Then change the setting and try it again.
I would like if at least one person would try this so I would have
confirmation of my test results.
Thanks for any info from anyone.
Ralph

/----------------------------------------------------------------------\
/Ralph Williams My real .sig file is in the shop getting repaired.\

/----------------------------------------------------------------------\

by **Jim Sokolof** » Sat, 21 Dec 1996 04:00:00

> I have a question for Jim (Papyrus), What did you guys do to the wheel
> lock on the cars?
> I was doing a little testing the other day. The turning radius of the car
> does not change *AT ALL* from about 9 degrees to 25 degrees. I was checking
> this at Charolette I think it was.
> I have a wheel that lets me run full wheel lock at all of the tracks.
> Again, what did you guys change from Nascar1? Why have the wheel
> lock option at all if it does not change the angle of the wheels in a full-turn
> situation?
> It does appear to alter the sensitivity on the track....but if that is what
> it is doing....shouldn't it be called something like "Steering Sensitivity"?

In developing the PSX version, I spent some time figuring out how to
make the steering work "better" without detracting from the simulation
aspect of the game. This improvement has been added to N2. Your wheel
lock experiment at very low speeds (hence not at the limit of the tires'
adhesion) is not particularly representative of what's important on the
track.

At speed, it is still actually wheel lock, (which in a way, is steering
sensitivity). The dynamics of the tire/road interaction are much more
complicated than the Physics 101 professor has led you to believe.

I believe that what we have is accurate, and we didn't bother too much
with the low speed turning circle, as wheelspin "fixes" that problem...

---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

by **David Spark** » Sat, 21 Dec 1996 04:00:00

I don't think your test is a valid way of determining the effect of wheel
lock. At low speeds, other factors such as the steering geometry affect the
turning radius. To get a true sense of how the wheel lock affects steering
at the limits of traction, you need a virtual skid pad.

Dave (davids) Sparks
Late Night League
http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

by **David Spark** » Sat, 21 Dec 1996 04:00:00

I don't think your test is a valid way of determining the effect of wheel
lock. At low speeds, other factors such as the steering geometry affect the
turning radius. To get a true sense of how the wheel lock affects steering
at the limits of traction, you need a virtual skid pad.

Dave (davids) Sparks
Late Night League
http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

by **David Spark** » Sat, 21 Dec 1996 04:00:00

I don't think your test is a valid way of determining the effect of wheel
lock. At low speeds, other factors such as the steering geometry affect the
turning radius. To get a true sense of how the wheel lock affects steering
at the limits of traction, you need a virtual skid pad.

Dave (davids) Sparks
Late Night League
http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

by **David Spark** » Sat, 21 Dec 1996 04:00:00

I don't think your test is a valid way of determining the effect of wheel
lock. At low speeds, other factors such as the steering geometry affect the
turning radius. To get a true sense of how the wheel lock affects steering
at the limits of traction, you need a virtual skid pad.

Dave (davids) Sparks
Late Night League
http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

by **ra..** » Sun, 22 Dec 1996 04:00:00

<snip>

Dave, maybe you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

What is wheel lock?
I would say that it is how sharply the wheels turn.
If you draw a line parallel to the centerline of the car and measure the angle
that the wheels move off of this line when fully turned, then this is the wheel
lock, this measurement will be in degrees.
I did not say that the tires were at the limit of traction. You are
correct in that the steering geometry affects the turning radius at low speeds.
In fact, the steering geometry is about *all* that will affect the turning
radius at low speeds, disregarding the effect of the locked differential.
I was not trying to test the effects at high speeds or at the limits of
traction.
I am more interested in the manueverability of the car in a slow speed
situation, like entering a partially blocked pit stall or driving through a demo-
derby-turn-one crash site in an online race. :)
Try this out in Nascar1 with the wheel lock set pretty high, say 25
degrees. Then do the same in Nascar2 with 25 degrees. You will see what I
am talking about.
Am still interested in hearing from others,
Ralph

/----------------------------------------------------------------------\
/Ralph Williams My real .sig file is in the shop getting repaired.\

/----------------------------------------------------------------------\

rec.autos.simulators

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