rec.autos.simulators

by **Plowbo** » Sat, 05 May 2007 00:07:50

Think about it, in "traffic" your supposed to be concentrating on traffic,
so you concentrate- which means trying to anticipate the drivers and other
obstacles around you. it takes an average person something like .02 seconds
just to "think" about moving your foot (reactionary) then so many hundredtsh
of seconds to move the foot. then depending on the brake system in this
example, a few tenths to get the desired effect so I see you lose a second.
But in traffic you "were taught in school and books and even commercials, to
leave yourself a 5-6 seconds gap between yourself and others. so in traffic
if you dont drive just passed the bumper of your car, you "should have time
to react" to most things... But in racing your competing with others that
are trying to achieve those 100ths of a second advantage over you and the
next guy/gal competitior. so you want to give up the momentum and speed by
lifting your foot off the accelerator and moving it to the brake, all the
while traveling at over 150 mph for example? 150 mph is how many feet per
second? so if I get .2 more seconds worth of full throttle I travel about
2% further down the track, and at higher speed, before I lift off the gas
with my right foot, and Simultaneously bear down on the brake with my left.

Automatics have the big brake, Im pretty sure, because so many years cars
did NOT have automatic (2 pedals and throttle) so for asthetic reasons they
made the brake pedal visually take up both places. You know, it was just
because at first, you got out of your 53 ford, to buy the 56 belair with AT,
and only saw one scrawny, all by itself brake pedal down there they figured,
you'd of just think "I dont know for sure but something is missing here.."

alexti enlightened us with:

>> Most people dotn know why we're usually taught how to drive an
>> automatic, AND only to use one foot (usually the right) is because
>> you have timid little mary and or johny ... <snip>
> I was always thinking that it was done so that people don't have to
> re- learn from right-foot braking to left-foot braking and back. I
> admit I've never been taught how to drive automatic, but I've tried
> on my own and quickly figured out that you use right foot to brake
> and left foot to smash on the brakes right after taking off from the
> traffic lights :) What fool came up with an idea of making the brake
> pedal so huge?

> Alex.

by **alex** » Sat, 05 May 2007 10:10:39

How many seconds will it take in traffic for the 5-6 gap to fill up? ;)

In racing conditions you keep the outer part of your foot on the throttle
and the front inner part at the brake, and in many tecnhniques you don't
release the throttle before starting to brake, it's more like starting to
brake while still trailing the accelerator. There isn't much movement
involved here. Using left foot is certainly much easier, but reality is
that most racer come through lower formula (where they have no choice), so
by the time they get into high-end cars with electronic clutch they're
quite proficient at heel-and-toe so the difference between it and left foot
braking is very minimal. Besides a lot of racers start in karts, so they
are usually quite comfortable with both left and right foot braking.

Strange that nobody thought (or thought and ignored) that this design is a
safety risk with no apparent advantages...

> alexti enlightened us with:

>>> Most people dotn know why we're usually taught how to drive an
>>> automatic, AND only to use one foot (usually the right) is because
>>> you have timid little mary and or johny ... <snip>
>> I was always thinking that it was done so that people don't have to
>> re- learn from right-foot braking to left-foot braking and back. I
>> admit I've never been taught how to drive automatic, but I've tried
>> on my own and quickly figured out that you use right foot to brake
>> and left foot to smash on the brakes right after taking off from the
>> traffic lights :) What fool came up with an idea of making the brake
>> pedal so huge?

>> Alex.

by **The Other Larr** » Wed, 09 May 2007 02:37:45

Well, I know that with some tracks/setups in NR2003, if you remove your
right foot from the gas to put it on the brake, by the time you get to the
brake you'll be looking head-on into oncomming traffic. Aka Snap-spin.

A good example of this is Richmond. I even tend to pre-load the brakes just
a tad before letting off the gas when entering turns 1 and 3 there to keep
the ass-end settled.

-Larry

>>> I left foot brake in my car due to it being a manual, if I was
>>> used to an auto, maybe things would have been different.

>>Is it a typo about left foot braking on manual or are the pedals are
>>placed
>>unusually (gas on the left?) in the country where you live?

> Oops,***ed that completely up.

> When I was taught in an auto I was told never to gas with the
> right and brake with the left but to do it all with the right
> foot. My left foot was planted firmly against the firewall at
> all times.

> Since I've been driving manuals for at least the last 10 years,
> having my left foot engaging a clutch made it pretty easy
> to start left foot braking.

> Since I got my G25, however, I'm back to left foot braking and
> heel toe'ing. I'm a bit slower than when I left foot braked but
> the experience is a lot more satisfying, especially in GTL.

> Cheers,
> Rod.

by **Asgeir Nesoe** » Wed, 09 May 2007 18:01:18

The muscle accuracy of your left foot needs some heavy practice in order
to do a good job at braking. That'll come around eventually.

But, and this is important: You need not hover your left foot over your
pedal for any period of time. Race car drivers don't do this either.
They keep their left foot out of the way for as much time as possible.
In order to let it rest, and in order to avoid accidental sagging of the
brakes which is, of course, bad for speed...

You need to move your left foot away from the brake pedal, preferrably
let it rest on a dedicated "platform", and the platform needs to be
higher (in the actuating plane of the pedal) than your pedal so that you
can just slide/rotate your foot to the right and land comfortably on
your brake pedal. This is good for reaction, and will be more than
adequate for normal race conditions.

Letting your foot rest will improve accuracy too, because the static
position over your braking pedal will be bad for your muscle, you'll
tense up, and you'll eventually end up with a hurting leg. How's that
for realism, arriving at work on monday morning with a limp due to
extensive racing on sunday...

---A---

by **Plowbo** » Thu, 10 May 2007 06:38:45

It has been done (VBG)
Asgeir Nesoen enlightened us with:

> The muscle accuracy of your left foot needs some heavy practice in
> order to do a good job at braking. That'll come around eventually.

> But, and this is important: You need not hover your left foot over
> your pedal for any period of time. Race car drivers don't do this
> either. They keep their left foot out of the way for as much time as
> possible. In order to let it rest, and in order to avoid accidental
> sagging of the brakes which is, of course, bad for speed...

> You need to move your left foot away from the brake pedal, preferrably
> let it rest on a dedicated "platform", and the platform needs to be
> higher (in the actuating plane of the pedal) than your pedal so that
> you can just slide/rotate your foot to the right and land comfortably
> on your brake pedal. This is good for reaction, and will be more than
> adequate for normal race conditions.

> Letting your foot rest will improve accuracy too, because the static
> position over your braking pedal will be bad for your muscle, you'll
> tense up, and you'll eventually end up with a hurting leg. How's that
> for realism, arriving at work on monday morning with a limp due to
> extensive racing on sunday...

> ---A---

>> My right foot's fine, but leaving my left foot on the brake pedal for
>> the fastest reactions is uncomfortable.

>> Me or the pedals? I'm using a Thrustmaster 360 Modena. Don't drive in
>> real life.

>> Thanks

by **Bill Worre** » Thu, 10 May 2007 06:54:11

This is known as a dead pedal. More pedal manufacturers should incorporate
this into their designs.

by **Jan Verschuere** » Thu, 10 May 2007 07:48:03

Thanks for repeating what I said, but making it sound scientific. ;-)

Jan.
=---

by **Asgeir Nesoe** » Thu, 10 May 2007 22:13:20

Lol, I didn't bother to read through the entire thread, so I read your
post after writing my own. And I thought I was the only smart guy
around, hehehehe. Well, king for a day. Or smartass for about 12 seconds.

---A---

by **Plowbo** » Fri, 11 May 2007 05:30:43

I should stipulate that playing enough on sunday that you limp on monday,
has been done (lol).
Plowboy enlightened us with:

> It has been done (VBG)
> Asgeir Nesoen enlightened us with:
>> The muscle accuracy of your left foot needs some heavy practice in
>> order to do a good job at braking. That'll come around eventually.

>> But, and this is important: You need not hover your left foot over
>> your pedal for any period of time. Race car drivers don't do this
>> either. They keep their left foot out of the way for as much time as
>> possible. In order to let it rest, and in order to avoid accidental
>> sagging of the brakes which is, of course, bad for speed...

>> You need to move your left foot away from the brake pedal,
>> preferrably let it rest on a dedicated "platform", and the platform
>> needs to be higher (in the actuating plane of the pedal) than your
>> pedal so that you can just slide/rotate your foot to the right and
>> land comfortably on your brake pedal. This is good for reaction, and
>> will be more than adequate for normal race conditions.

>> Letting your foot rest will improve accuracy too, because the static
>> position over your braking pedal will be bad for your muscle, you'll
>> tense up, and you'll eventually end up with a hurting leg. How's that
>> for realism, arriving at work on monday morning with a limp due to
>> extensive racing on sunday...

>> ---A---

>>> My right foot's fine, but leaving my left foot on the brake pedal
>>> for the fastest reactions is uncomfortable.

>>> Me or the pedals? I'm using a Thrustmaster 360 Modena. Don't drive
>>> in real life.

>>> Thanks

by **jason moye** » Thu, 24 May 2007 10:34:19

I think a big problem, at least for me, is that sim pedals tend to
have poor ergonomics. I use MS wheels, which have fairly nice
consumer-level pedals, and a.) the pedals aren't close enough to heel
and toe, as I would in a real car and b.) the pedals are too close
together to comfortably LFB as I would in a gokart (or, presumably, a
semi-automatic open wheeler).

I think if I owned a set of pedals that allowed for adjustable spacing
between the throttle/brake, I'd be ok using either technique. As it
stands, neither one is particularly comfortable.

rec.autos.simulators

Left foot breaking uncomfortable

Left foot breaking uncomfortable

Left foot breaking uncomfortable

Left foot breaking uncomfortable

Left foot breaking uncomfortable

Left foot breaking uncomfortable

Left foot breaking uncomfortable

Left foot breaking uncomfortable

Left foot breaking uncomfortable

Left foot breaking uncomfortable

Left foot breaking uncomfortable