rec.autos.simulators

Anyway, I am all for a GPL driven modern day F1 sim. Until then, though I'm
persevering with GP3 (and enjoying it).

Out of curiosity, what wheel do you use and what wheel does DK recommend? I
use the LWFF with GPL and find it pretty good going.

Who's "JC" anyway? :-)

Jandre

--
PD

Jan

:-)

I would imagine that a GPL-based modern F1 sim would probably feel
quite a bit like F12K -- it may be a hardware hog, but I think that way
too many people have overlooked this gem (probably because it IS such a
hardware hog).  For hot-lapping, though, F12K feels a LOT like GPL,
which speaks well for what ISI has done.  Just wait until they hit us
with F12001.

-- JB

Sent via Deja.com http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Before you buy.

I have to agree. I think ISI/EA Sports are breathing a lot easier now
that they've seen what Hasbro/Crammond have come up with. I hardly
think they look at GP3 and say, 'oh god they've really raised the bar
to a new level!'  :-)  ISI is probably gnashing their teeth that EA
didnt give them another two months to sort the game out a little better.
I still dont trust EA any further than I can throw em' but its at least
obvious now that they are right there in the hunt for having the best
F1 game on the market with F12001. In fact it should be a piece of cake.

MR
http://blitzsports.com/racing/F12000

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

I believe David Kaemer doesn't think too much of FFB in it's present
form either. Do you find that laughable too?
--
Nos

Preach on brother.
--
Nos

John Crooke is basically saying that FF is
worthless, when it obviously is worthwhile.
The fact that he has a financial stake in
the success or failure of force feedback
makes his comments laughable to anyone
who finds current FF useful.

What part of that don't you understand?

--
Pat Dotson

Did you not read the interview with Hyperstim (it's linked through
that interview with WSC)? They never said FFB has no
place in their future. They just don't feel it is quite ready for
prime time. Maybe in a year or so. It's obvious that you are the one
who reads negative things out of constructive criticism. Take a
reading comprehension course.
--
Nos

The actual definition of a PRECISE wheel is, and always will be, a
VERY subjective issue based on what is comfortable for the sim racer.
Since SimHQ is all about realistic simulations, I have tried to give
realistic racing feedback in regards to the wheels presented here. In
the area of force feedback (FF), the same subjective issues apply in
some instances. There are still some very strong shortcomings of
incorporating present FF designs into precision driving wheels while
negotiating realistic smooth course racing circuits and the sometimes
hindrance of these systems. More on this FF subject a bit later in the
review.

--
Nos

P.S.S. Here's somme more from that article. Perhaps you would like to
post an apology now for your rude comment above.

I feel the force feedback topic will continue to be debated for quite
some time. I have done quite a bit of research into this very topic
before embarking on this review and the results surprisingly have been
on par with my own personal views on this FF topic. The first question
I asked to both owners of ECCI and TSW was, why force feedback devices
are not incorporated into their controllers? BOTH, owners responded
quickly and decisively by stating that, current force feedback
designs are not accurate enough to be incorporated into their units.
ECCI went on to say, FF does nothing to improve lap times. In
talking with a few (IMO) top NASCAR sim racers, they have repeatedly
stated they do not need FF wheels to be competitive and what is
needed most, is the most precise wheel your budget can afford. I have
also talked with a realistic racing simulation developer who conveyed
this, no FF devices have come close in representing or giving precise
feedback of realistic car physics modeling in smooth pavement racing
applications.

--
Nos

You are apparently the one who cannot comprehend that
which he reads.  In the Teehar interview you mention,
he says it will be 18 months to two years before
they might introduce force feedback.  Not "maybe in
a year or so".  Where did you get that?

Tell me what is constructive about:

F1F: Well for argument's sake, what sim do you
feel has the best force feedback?

JC: None of them

or:

CW: We're going to give it a go. But we've got every
force feedback wheel and [quickly glances at John]

JC: [dirty look at Chris]

I take the "dirty look" to indicate Crooke's
utter contempt for every force feedback wheel
in existence.

Crooke has made the same sort of negative comments
here in R.A.S., along with Trevor from TSW.  If
these guys can't deliver FF that suits their
standards, then fine, but they should stop
insulting everyone's intelligence by saying that
current force feedback technology is worthless.

You need it more than I do, pal.

--
Pat Dotson

Everything that you included later in this post
is subjective opinion.

As I said before, my opinion is that TSW,
ECCI, and Hyperstim are behaving in a self-
serving fashion when they deride other FF
wheels, or degrade current FF technology.

My comments were directed at John Crooke.

Are you starting to understand?

--
Pat Dotson