rec.autos.simulators

The powers that be at NASCAR decided that Daytona "wasn't exciting enough",
so they made mods to the cars madatory.

So what do we have:
- probably the most lead changes at Daytona ever - I don't even know, nor do
I care
- one of the most exciting - I guess if you like shattered dreams of over 20
drivers
- a dead legend

I was never a Dale fan, but I had/have ENORMOUS respect for the man and his
accomplishments.

***ing bastards is the word that springs to mind when I think of the fat
assed stuffed shirts that came up with the metal strip, restrictor plate
mods, and sundry others.  All in the name of evening the field.

I guess it was the most exciting Daytona ever ---- until the end. And if you
don't count half the field crashing out.

 I'm going to have a tough time watching that race again, and frankly I
could give a shit wether the ***s that decided to "make it more exciting"
just died and blew away with the garbage that is littering the track now.

Sorry for the rant, but I figured someone here might be feeling the same
things.

ed

On Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:20:52 -0500, "Ed Kloskowski"

Some of your points are valid, and I understand why right now there is
a need to "vent". But let's not forget, motor racing is dangerous.
People will die participating - Clark, Senna, Allison, Easrnhardt - no
one is immune. Placing blame isn't the right thing to do just yet.

DG

Agreed, good point. The danger is one of the things that gives this sport
its edge.

The fact remains though, ANY race that sees nearly half the field crashing
out in this manner needs sucrutiny.

It was said of the madatory mods to the cars that the playing filed was SO
level that it was anyones race, literally anyones.

I am a firm believer in the fact that the majority of drivers in the back of
a pack are there for a reason... They are not "there" yet.

Do I think Dale died today becuase of the mods - absolutely.  NASCAR swung
the pendulum TO FAR the other way.  Last years race was broing by anyones
account.  Except for ONE key person, the drivers. The stuff I read said that
most all contenders felt it was a nail biter, but the fans were
dissapointed, the public was, the FOX deal was in the works, etc.....

When you level a playing field by artifcially making lesser drivers better
ones by DEcreasing the ability of the better ones you have upset a delicate
balance and you put people in postions that they are unprepared to be in.
This race was orchastrated to be slower (knock a few miles off the 190+ we
can see at Daytona - if you can call that slower), more contenous, and
"better TV".

NASCAR needs to take a hard look at themselves.  Seeing talent snuffed out
like this and watching HALF the friggin field get mopped up is not my idea
of a fun Sunday at the races.  I like a crash as much as the next guy -
today was almost surreal.

ed

Nah...!!

I just don't don't "buy" this line of reasoning.....that the "rules" changes
for this year's Daytona 500 caused Dale's death, or the accident that took
out half the field with 35 laps to go.  These "rule changes" had nothing
more to do with today's events then any of the other "rules" in the NASCAR
Rules Book.  In fact, the NASCAR Rules Book has saved hundreds of lives!
That's the same "rule book" that dictates all the driver-safety construction
that goes into a modern day Winston Cup race car.

There have always been "chain reaction" accidents in NASCAR and other forms
of oval racing.  And, I've seen so many of these at the start of SCCA
Regional road races it would make your head spin.  I've been in a few them,
too.  And, I can promise you that if it were not for those "driver safety"
rules and regulations, we wouldn't have been the only team to have cut
corners on the money they cost.....to pursue speed and some other elusive
competitive edge.

How many accidents have we all seen that were so ugly.....they turned our
stomachs?  Only to see the drivers climb out of the carnage and walk away.
Then, others......seemingly so docile and insignificant....take lives.  How
can that be the "fault" of the rules?

Rules don't "guarantee" safety.  Rules "promote" safety!

There is one thing about racing that will never be changed by "rules."  That
is, the outcome of any race will be as much a matter of "luck" as any other
factor....and usually outweighs skill, knowledge, cunning and experience.
In racing, there's a saying about luck, "In any race, you'll always have
'luck' to contend with.  Sometimes its 'good'.....and sometimes its
'bad'......but its always a part of the outcome!"

Today, NASCAR racing lost one of its heros.  And, one of its heros, lost a
father....and a good friend.  That's just plain and simple "bad luck."  And,
to try to blame it on something else.......just isn't realistic, in my
opinion.

Tom Pabst

I'm glad someone said what I was thinking. Like Senna would have said
"that's racing"

JS

On Sun, 18 Feb 2001 23:31:31 -0500, "Ed Kloskowski"

Tragic is the word i'd use. But let me ask you this - and it isn't a
criticism of you or your reasoning - but lets say Buckshot Jones had
died today (random choice, he was the first "nobody" driver to pop
into my head) instead of Dale Earnhadt - would you be so mad?

I'm not having a dig. It's just that alot of people forget that, back
at Imola in '94, Roland Ratzenburger died as well, not just the great
Senna. I guess it is understandable, i'm just thinking aloud is all.
I'm still kind of stunned - it was the first thing I saw when I got up
this morning. I woke up, turned on the TV and because of rain delay,
got to see the last 30 or so laps before work. It was some great
racing, and I was so happy seeing Waltrip win, hearing his brother get
so emotional in the booth.... then the accident.... then I realised it
was taking a little longer than usual to get him out of there.... then
it clicked. Earnhardt is dead. Seeing that ambulance drive away
slowly, seeing Jr. running to the medical centre.... not the best way
to start a day.

Sorry, i'm rambling and have got way off of the topic I started on.
I'm still in shock, I guess.

DG

Its not "rules" I was talking about.  its the artificial eveing of a field.

I'll let it go.  Its not really relevant now.

Like JS said "that's racing"... I suppose

To answer D.S. about ould I be pissed if it was a nobody. yep.  I was pissed
when I read of the madatory car mods.  I'm not alone in that plenty of
drivers and pundits have come out against them.

ed

While it would be easy to pile on and agree with you, I disagree.
The restrictor plates were to slow the cars down, not to make the
field even. The alternative is to have a 4000 pound car going airborne
at 240mph and spiraling into the grandstands. Remember Allison
at Dega? Or Petty at Daytona? That is why they implemented the
restriction. Period.

Now if you were talking about the Hanford device in CART, I would
totally agree with you. I still think that was what killed Greg Moore.

--

You are right, and I said that before. the restrictor plate mods were to
slow the car down.  I am not anti-Restrictor plate.  I didn't mean it to
sound like that.

ed

   But, Greg, what's the difference between the Handford device and
the Daytona/Talladega roof strip?  None.  It makes the car cut a
bigger hole through the air to enhance drafting.  That leads to more
passing, more cars in close contact with each other, and more chances
for incidental contact.  Back in the "bad old days", Richard Petty
might win a race by two laps (or more) and spend a very small
percentage of the race in close contact with other cars.  Today we
have a "better show" when they race the last half of the race
three-wide.  ;(

"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

Earnhardt is partly to blame for his death due to his driving style.  But
NASCAR is also to blame for letting him get away with it during his entire
career.  If NASCAR had been enforcing the rules evenly and appropriately
when required, then maybe Earnhardt would not have been 'blocking' during
the final lap of the 500.

Yes I agree with you, NASCAR has killed one of it's stars but I'm not sure
what they did for this race is what killed him.  It's what they didn't do in
the past.

They can also be blamed for not requiring the HANS device for each and every
driver.  Although I'm sure that's going to change awfully quick.

Good point Jeff, and you said what I was trying to.  NASCAR prompted a
"style" of racing that otherwise might not have been so exaggerated or
emphasized.

ed

They need to do something, for certain, but that was one of the
slowest fields in close to twenty years.  It was a ***bath,
comparatively speaking in the early sixties when the cars were much
slower.  There are no easy answers nor quick solutions.

Sometimes fate simply has a hand in these things.   If Kenny
Schrader's car had been farther back, Dale's car wouldn't have been
turned so sharply and decellerated at such a high rate, possibly
saving him the fatal injury.  Had Kenny's car been two feet farther
forward beside Dale, it wouldn't have turned his car and,
additionally, acted as somewhat of a cushion, absorbing some of the
energy of the impact by crushing of the forward compartment.

I'm still trying to resolve the force vectors, but I suspect that
Dale's car *did* virtually come to a stop from 180 MPH and that the
lateral motion was contributed by Kenny's car alone.  If that is the
case, he didn't have a prayer of surviving and the utility of the HANS
device is questionable.  It might've "saved his neck" buy he may have
been left with nearly fatal brain injuries from it ricocheting off the
inside of the skull.

Maybe Schumacher's new light-weight kevlar/carbon-fiber, custom-fit
helmet is a positive step as it works to reduce the mass of the head
under such circumstances.

Just my thoughts and, yes, I'm angry and sad, too.

Regards,
Brett C. Cammack

(remove the DOTs from my return address to reply privately)

I wonder if the HANS (sp?) device would have helped....seems to me it would.
Didn't Nascar refuse to implement them this year while virtually all other
series did?  They'll have a lot to answer for, if so.

Yup, the restrictor plates killed him.  His open faced helmet that he so
stubbornly refused to give up had nothing to do with it.

JB