rec.autos.simulators

Just Fired up GPL again

jason moy

Just Fired up GPL again

by jason moy » Mon, 24 Jun 2002 16:42:50

Changing the physics rate just changes the speed at which the
calculations are being made, not the accuracy of the calculations,
right?  That is a significant addition to the vehicle dynamics
modelling if they're using that extra speed to increase the detail of
the tire/suspension/aero modelling, but if they didn't change much
else it just means that whatever inaccurate calculations were made in
F1 2001 (whatever those may be, I'm speculating here) would just be
made twice as fast, no?

Redone tire model sounds good, tho.  I'm still waiting for my UC
checks here which were due last week and I'm dying to pick up F1 2002.
 Finally found steering configuration settings that gave me
Papyrus-style input response in F12k1 and now I'd like to mess with
the latest version.  First ISI game I should be able to enjoy out of
the box. =)

Oh yeah, Nacar Thunder 2003 is on my "to buy" list whenever it comes
out, since multiplayer is not a big deal to me and the extra single
player modes may be interesting.  The only thing that concerns me
really is the weak collision dynamics in F12k1 (dunno about 2k2).  The
way cars flip through the air and go airborne at times when lightly
brushing barriers and whatnot is just odd.  I would cry if I lost the
backend at say Dover, hit the wall, and suddenly my car started
flipping around like a fish out of water.

The other thing that concerns me is the AI.  I can't find the URL now,
but there was a screenshot that showed the AI racing *3 wide* through
the esses at Watkins Glen.  I don't just mean one battle for position,
I'm talking 10 rows of cars going through the esses 3 wide.  WTF?

Jason


> I haven't really looked at the F1 2002 files in any great depth yet, but
> they do appear to have changed the tire model completely (I think this
> was at the request of the mod authors) and of course there is the higher
> rate physics option.  Those might not sound like major changes, but it
> totally changes the feel, IMO.  But the most promising thing about this
> is that most of the problems that people have noted with the feel of F1
> 2KX are due to the character of modern F1 - high spring and bar rates,
> low weight, tight turns that apparently are difficult to mesh smoothly.
> None of those things will be a problem in a NASCAR sim, the ISI engine
> will almost be overkill for that application.  The only big question at
> this point is of course multiplayer.  I can't see a NASCAR sim
> succeeding without it.



> > Tiburion is developing it using the "lastest ISI engine".  Whether
> > that means F1 2001 or F1 2002 I don't know (I'm not even sure, really
> > what changed between those 2 releases engine-wise anyway...did they do
> > anything besides altering the variables in the car physics files?).
> > Either way, there could be interesting engine and brake tuning options
> > included, if done well.

Haqsa

Just Fired up GPL again

by Haqsa » Tue, 25 Jun 2002 00:01:12


The problem is that in order to accurately reproduce the motion of the
car the rate of the physics calculations has to be much higher than any
of the natural frequencies in the suspension.  The stiffer the
suspension or the lighter the car, the higher the frequencies get.  F1
is the worst case I know of in this respect (unless someone were to try
and do a truly realistic representation of a go-kart that includes
chassis stiffness).  If you can't get the rate high enough, the car will
tend to oscillate at some harmonic of the physics rate.  So a lot of the
bounciness that was in F1 2k1 was due to the physics rate not being high
enough.  The higher rate physics in F1 2k2 seems to have cured this.
The other important thing that higher rate physics gives you is that you
are literally improving the precision with which you read the track.  At
300 kph a 200 hz physics engine only samples the track and does physics
approx. every 42 cm.  At 400 hz you are calculating the physics every 21
cm.  Between that and the new tire model, the feel of the cars at the
limit has improved tremendously.  In F1 2001 I could occasionally rescue
a spin but I couldn't really hold a car sideways (not that you would
want to, but it's a good test).  In F1 2002 I can hold the car sideways
and I can feel my way through a turn with the pedals much like in GPL.

Same here actually, but I think we are in the minority around here.

I have heard that collisions are better in F1 2k2, but haven't really
tested it yet.  In any case I would guess that Tiburon would have to do
their own collision model due to the differences in the cars.  For
example they need to be able to show crumpled sheet metal, which is
something I don't remember seeing in F1 2kx.

Eldre

Just Fired up GPL again

by Eldre » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 10:09:00



>A save game feature would be nice in the sense of allowing you to
>periodically save a race in order to avoid losing your progress due to
>a crash.  

Oddly enough, most people DON'T want a save game feature for this reason.

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Stolen vehicle! - Det,MI
1999 Blk Pontiac Grand Am SE, Lic# 947SLS,
VIN:1G2NE12EXXM815898 carjacked from Grnfld/W. Chicago 6/30/02.Contact Officer
Penn at 313-596-2850.Thanks

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Eldre

Just Fired up GPL again

by Eldre » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 10:09:01



>I guess I could have but not for 24-36 hours.

>DC




>> >A save game feature would be nice. I was halfway through a full race
>(gpl)
>> >but I just had to get some sleep. would have been nice (unrealistic
>though)
>> >to continue tonight at that point.

>> Since you don't mention needing your computer for other things, could you
>have
>> paused the game?

I've been known to do that before.  I've taken as long as a week to finish a
full race before.  'Course, I live alone, so no one else was clamoring for the
computer...<g>

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Stolen vehicle! - Det,MI
1999 Blk Pontiac Grand Am SE, Lic# 947SLS,
VIN:1G2NE12EXXM815898 carjacked from Grnfld/W. Chicago 6/30/02.Contact Officer
Penn at 313-596-2850.Thanks

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