rec.autos.simulators

HAWAII Issues

Tony Joh

HAWAII Issues

by Tony Joh » Fri, 10 May 1996 04:00:00

Everyone --

Well, having read through a whole slew of Hawaii-related material, I
feel I must add to the growing literature on the subject.  There are
several issues I want to address:

A) SERIES vs. PICK-UP RACES

I think Series racing is a great idea, for the sole reason that it
gives people a chance to race against people they know and trust.
However, there is a tendency for series to become very exclusive and
cliquish, and this distances the series from the pickup racers, not
all of whom are kamikaze maniacs.  I encourage all of the new Hawaii
series to maintain open minds.  Don't introvert your series or flaunt
it -- give the pickup racers a chance.  If I were a director again
(heaven forbid), you bet your booties I'd be scouting the pickup races
for new talent.  Remember -- elitism is anathema to auto racing (heck,
look at IRL and CART).  In short, equal billing needs to be given to
both pickup and series events.

B) COMPLAINTS, ET AL

Dangerous trend developing.  New racers who make mistakes are being
ostracized.  Sure, there are a few out there who are running around
bashing people for fun.  But there have been a few incidents, like
pace lap wrecks, where inexperience is mistaken for stupidity.  One of
the reasons this keeps happening is that more experienced drivers
aren't offering to help.  Basically, it's "new-guy-thrown-to-sharks"
city.  Winston Cup racing is unique because a new racer will get help
from the old hands.  This is where I see leagues being helpful --
there should be a STRATIFIED set of leagues, just like NASCAR has set
up.  There needs to be a Sportsman style league for 0 level racers,
where people can learn what it is like to get in the middle of things.
Once that training ground has served its purpose, you go on.  But
there HAS to be something open for all levels -- it's really
ineffectual to say "Once you hit 5 you can join THE LEAGUE.. until
then, you're SOL."

I've heard calls for DAMAGE OFF races so that people don't get taken
out by boneheads.  Well, the only way to learn NOT to be a bonehead is
to have to sit out a race or get many laps down from a damaged race
car.  Learning involves disappointment and pain occasionally.

C) INDYCAR MULTIPLAYER

Every time I read posts calling for this, I laugh.  Imagine the
carnage currently happening on Hawaii, and then put it in cars that
get bent by lightly tapping something.  The multicar pileups would be
on the pace laps, especially at road courses.

I'd say a CTRL-A key is in order -- In other words, pace/yellow lap
autopilot.  You can toggle it just like autobraking or manual
shifting.  That way, the sim takes over the car on pace laps so nobody
gets rammed or spun out.  When one-to-go comes out, people can then
switch it off and go racing next lap.  Just a thought.

Anyway, I'm rambling.  I just want to remind everyone that we're all
newbies to racing (even Nim, Rhawn, and the other hotshots) and
probably couldn't race a real car to save our lives.  All this
"rubbins racin" and revenge crapola that "Days of Thunder" made trendy
might work on rec.autos.sport.nascar or whatever, but please don't
take it onto the track.

Ta-ta.
_________________________________________
Tony Johns
IWCCCARS Project Coordinator
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~iwcc/project.htm

Josh Beauli

HAWAII Issues

by Josh Beauli » Sat, 11 May 1996 04:00:00

Ok you're just not making any sense here.  There are three damage settings
for ICR2.  You can hit the frickin wall on a spinout on a 1 mile oval and
still not get any damage most of the time (on arcade dam.).

pileups would be>on the pace laps, especially at road courses.

Here you seem to be suggesting that Nascar drivers are somehow better at
following the pace car.  Again, not making sense.

say a CTRL-A key is in order -- In other words, pace/yellow lap>autopilot.  
You can toggle it just like autobraking or manual>shifting.  That way, the sim
takes over the car on pace laps so nobody>gets rammed or spun out.  When
one-to-go comes out, people can then>switch it off and go racing next lap.  
Just a thought.

Ha ha ha...  (rolling of the eyes)

Eldred Picke

HAWAII Issues

by Eldred Picke » Sat, 11 May 1996 04:00:00


No, since most of the Nascar courses are ovals, it's easier to have a clean
pace lap - and we're STILL having problems.  I would imagine total carnage at
Watkins or Sears Point...
I *can't* imagine getting through a pace lap at Vancouver or Laguna Seca
without incident.

________

Eldred Pickett

I am NOT paranoid.  And why are you always watching me?!?

Tony Joh

HAWAII Issues

by Tony Joh » Sat, 11 May 1996 04:00:00


***space with:

I stand corrected, then.  There would be no problems, then, in your
humble opinion if everyone ran ARCADE damage.  Sounds like a hoot.

No, you just THINK that's what I'm saying, Joshie.  I'm saying that an
IndyCar, having more throttle response, more fickle handling, etc., is
easier to spin or get into an incident during a pace lap.  Tell me, do
you remember 1992 at Indy?  Anyway, if you've been on Hawaii at ALL
you know about the pace lap incidents that occur -- put the same
drivers into an IndyCar at Surfer's Paradise in much closer proximity
and twice-as-powerful cars, and what do you think will happen?

Don't give me any bull about IndyCar drivers being "better" than
NASCAR drivers, either.  It's not a question of skill -- it's a
question of being around 30 of your closest friends on a street or
road course with unpredictable driving styles.  The incidents on
Hawaii would be child's play compared to an IndyCar service.

Just keep laughing, kid.  Like you've never used autobraking down pit
road to avoid a black flag.
_________________________________________
Tony Johns
IWCCCARS Project Coordinator
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~iwcc/project.htm

Josh Beauli

HAWAII Issues

by Josh Beauli » Sun, 12 May 1996 04:00:00



>Subject: Re: HAWAII Issues
>Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 21:20:03 GMT

>***space with:
>>Ok you're just not making any sense here.  There are three damage settings
>>for ICR2.  You can hit the frickin wall on a spinout on a 1 mile oval and
>>still not get any damage most of the time (on arcade dam.).
>I stand corrected, then.  There would be no problems, then, in your
>humble opinion if everyone ran ARCADE damage.  Sounds like a hoot.

Apparently you've never played ICR2...  Everyone does their races in Arcade
mode anyway.

My name is Josh, you condescending nitwit.

That's where the skill level restraints will come in handy.  For the road
courses -- yes, for the low-skilled, not running a pace lap might work a
tad better.  With practice comes heads up, defensive driving.  Even with the
AI, I always stay back and drive defensively on the start.

"Kid"... nice touch.  BTW, there should be an Alt-D (automatic drive) too eh?
...

Tony Joh

HAWAII Issues

by Tony Joh » Mon, 13 May 1996 04:00:00


***space with:

Not everyone.  I prefer racing with Realistic damage selected.  I
thought the REAL racers did it that way.

Who's the nitwit, Josh?  Me for calling you "Joshie" or you for
completely missing the point of my original post and flaming me for
it?  Any condescension I sent your way pales in light of your
ill-conceived reply to my post.

Which makes you a good driver.  Any driver who has patience and
experience with the sim has a good chance of doing well.  But even you
would have to admit that driving a pace lap, much less laps at full
speed, on a road course is a MUCH different proposition than oval
racing -- which will result in about ten times the grief that Hawaii
is currently generating even for the veterans.

Hey, if you think it's a valid option, don't let me stop you from
suggesting it.  I wonder, will you roll your eyes as much in the
future when some newbie rear-ends you on a yellow at Portland because
you slowed for the Festival curve?  You may not think an option like
that is warranted, but what about less experienced drivers?  Not
everyone is as skilled and talented a road racer as you seem to be.

You've proven my point about the discrepancy between beginners and the
so-called sim-racing veterans quite beautifully.  Thanks.
_________________________________________
Tony Johns
IWCCCARS Project Coordinator
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~iwcc/project.htm


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