rec.autos.simulators

Joe

My, my, I've started a huge thread!  Thanks everyone!

Let's see if I can keep it alive.  Muahahahaha!

My question was a little vague perhaps.  A FWD car understeers more when
the drive wheels are actually SPINNING.  A rear wheel drive car will
oversteer in the same situation.  What does F1RS do?

% Actually, I disagree.  I think the cars do behave like fwd to a certain
% extent, because when the car is sliding, it does not want to turn at all.
% Try a wet race and you will see what I mean.  You have to creep through some
% corners just to get it to turn in low grip situatuations.  Other than that ,
% it is awesome.  It might be in the controller, I don't know, that is just my
% experience.  Anyone know how to get that out of it, let me know.

I would think it would be the other way around.  I have always found
front-wheel driven cars to be over-sensitive to steering.  

Also, a car sliding is attributed to loss of grip.  Therefore it
should be extremely hard to get it to turn.  Turning requires grip.

Now if we are talking about a car on rails...... ;-)

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Yes that is true, turning requires grip.  So how come the AI cars can turn
in the wet and I cant?

   < Snip >

   It's a sim.  I enjoyed WC (The first version of GP2) with a
stick and rudder pedals.  I enjoy later race sims a lot
more with a TM T1 wheel.  I like F1RS even more with an ECCI,
wheel.  These are simulations of a vehicle that is controlled
with wheels, gear shift buttons on these wheels, and pedals.  
If you want to use a stick, go for it.  

   Some like it, some don't.  It's different from GP2.  

   I find it drives like real cars.  But my experience is with
road cars.  Those who don't like it feel it doesn't drive like
F1 cars.  I suspect many don't like it because it doesn't drive
like GP2.  

   I don't know how a real F1 car drives.  But I love to drive
fast on back roads, and F1RS captures that pretty well.  On
tracks where my favorite sport is contested.  

   Get it from a store that will let you return it.  Give it
a try.  

                                                       Larry

I'm the guy that said it handles like a front wheel drive car. That's not entirely true. First let me say that the game is excellent. There are a lot of problems with it and it still gets more time from me than any other game on my PC. I can't answer the Joystick question but I will try to tell you what I mean about the physics.

Yes the F1RS car pushes heavily. Yes the steering angle is hard to judge *at first*. Yes the setup adjustments are very good. But when you adjust something in the setup and get results on the track, it does not mean the physics are good. It just means the game is consistent. Notice the name of the game is 'Racing Simulation', not 'Driving Simulation'. That's exactly what it is and isn't. The tire wear and fuel loads - strategy is key, and fun. But the weight of the car in transition suffers greatly.

I have a racing kart and I can tell you from my own experience and my ability to visibly judge the similarities of events, that when watch racing karts and F1 cars at the turn in phase, they are very much alike. This is one of the most distinct characteristics of the F1 car. In GP2 the car turns in like a kart. Actually, in GP2 the handling of the car is very much like a kart. I know that the aerodynamic differences of the two vehicles will make a huge difference but the F1RS turn in phase still lacks agility.

When driving a kart or other type of vehicle, the absolute weight at any given corner at any given time will dictate where that physical body goes. In a kart it is quite ***, two extra ounces on any corner will change your direction. Two pounds in the wrong place and it's over. Period. I have a feeling that F1 cars are like that. The F1RS car is very sluggish. There is something wrong with the way the car loads, making it very hard to drift, turn in quickly, oversteer in mid corner, and it generally ignores most attempts at real world maneuvers. When it gets away from you, forget it. It is very unrealistic.

In the rain is where it handles the most realistically. More like a street car I would suppose, but still the mid corner drift characteristics are better. (For those of you who are going too slow in a push through the corner, might I suggest a little throttle at the apex to bring the rear end around? You can really increase your cornering speed that way. The same technique works in the dry but is more delicate because of the added grip.)

Over all, if you want a driving sim the best bets out right now are CPR and the GPL demo. But F1RS is just as fun.

--

mark
"A lot of people think racing is about going fast. But it's not. It's about going just slow enough to stay on the track."

F1RS - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~chaser/car/results.htm
Remove us here and there to mail me.

    I'm thinking of getting it, even though I already have GP2.  I want to
    know:
         1.  Does it work well with a good joystick like GP2 does, or would
    I have to buy a damn steering wheel and pedals?  I'm looking for complex
    adjustments for sensitivity, dead zones and so on.

         2.  Everyone raves about how good the physics model is.  However, I
    read in an earlier post that someone thinks the cars handle like they
    are front-wheel drive!  Can anyone expand on that?  Do they understeer
    when you step on the gas or something?

    Thanxya!

Setup. Add wing, lower your gear ratio's and put on a set of smelly
wellies.

--
Suck The Goat

Duh!, I think I tried that one!

I don't that the modelling of F1RS in the wet is good in that if you
drive with no aids, you'll never be competitive in the wet. I've tried
and tried, but have come to the conclusion that the modelling must be
off. It's pretty OK with the traction helps, but do let me know if
anybody can win a pro race with no helps. I reckon it's pretty
impossible.

Stanley Chan

In which case, practice, practice, practice. You can hear well enough
when the wheels pass the slip angle, the angle where they lose all grip.

I have to say that the first wet races I did at Spa and later at Canada
I found it difficult to keep up with the opposition, but some setup work
and a little practice soon put me back up the orders.

--
Suck The Goat

Ross Stonefeld

The first time I played F1RS I couldn't control the car so the model must
have been wrong :-), but strangely, the more I play it the easier it to
drive. I'm sure someone from Ubisoft is sneaking into my house and
replacing the exe with one with a better model while I'm sleeping. How else
can I explain the fact that the car is getting easier to drive :-)

Jeff

What happens to me is that I have to press the gas pedal for a much longer
time and the car gets into that halfspin very slowly. Like someone said,
the spins in F1RS and GP2 are canned. Try GPL for a closer to reality spin-
experience :-) (or a real car with enough horsepower, ofcoz)

 -Juha

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