rec.autos.simulators

GTR - An Appreciation

Dean Purd

GTR - An Appreciation

by Dean Purd » Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:35:44

Steve, as usual a great read. Please let us know when your story in C&D will
hit the news stands.

--
                                   See ya in the pits,
                                           Dean

I have a terrible memory. In fact my memory's so bad I can't remember how
long it's been since I've forgotten anything.

"Steve Smith" <blowbackNOS...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message

news:b4cHd.29522$Xs6.16777@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> GTR - A Sim to Believe In

> (Part Preview, Part Review)

> I'm amazed at the outpouring of negativity surrounding SimBin's "GTR" (for
> the FIA's "GT Racing") by people who haven't played the game...even some
> from people who haven't bothered to play the demo!  And among those who
> have
> actually played the game, a lot of the complaints are picayune, like the
> game doesn't strictly follow the FIA's insanely complicated rulebook, or
> the
> track marshals' booths aren't the regulation size.

> The truth is, it's a great game.  Yes, it has some rough edges, and thus
> far
> it's only available--legally--in Germany (time-frame for U.S. distro: Feb.
> or March), but no, it's neither broken nor a simple mod of EA's Formula 1
> Challenge (altho SimBin has licensed ISI's "Motor 1" physics engine, along
> with all that rococo FIA livery).   The bottom line is that GTR comes
> closer
> to an authentic racing experience than anything else that doesn't require
> a
> Nomex driving suit and a 5-point seat harness.

> I've driven almost three thousand laps of GTR, both online and off, for an
> assignment from Car and Driver, and as someone who's put six years into
> GPL,
> beta-tested a myriad of PC and console games, and raced both real-world
> cars
> (Trans-Am, SCCA Nationals) and every kind of racing simulation there is
> (beginning with Dave Kaemmer's original Indy 500), I'm here to tell you
> that
> GTR is the best thing to come roaring down the track--for car guys as well
> as computer geeks--since Papyrus' NASCAR Racing 2003...and GTR makes
> NR2003
> seem positively crude by comparison.

> Through the good offices of Ian Bell, who oversees SimBin's development
> team
> in London, I was able to obtain a pre-release of the English-language
> version, eventually patched to ver 1.2.3, and I've since unofficially
> downloaded several 3rd-party tracks (including a 24-hour version of the
> mighty Nurburgring).  To put it plainly: I love this game.  Yes, it's got
> more bugs than the Okefenokee Swamp in August (the menus are a mess, the
> replay system is frustrating, the multiplayer is iffy, and there is a
> surfeit of small annoyances), but overall it's hard-core: deeply
> immersive,
> very satisfying, and full of promise.  Sure, I signed a NDA, but Ian said
> I
> can vent my impressions of the game, so here goes.

> First of all: the cars.  There are a slew of them, from the mundane (a
> gaggle of Porsche 911s...altho a 3rd-party GT1 is lurking in the wings) to
> the exotic (the widely-unknown Gillet Vertigo Streiff, a Belgian bolide
> named after an obscure French F1 driver of the 80s) to the awesome (the
> Corvette C5-R) to the sublime (a trio of Ferraris) to the ridiculous (a
> BMW
> *hatchback*, ferchrissake, and a neo-deco Morgan 8 Aero that looks like
> something out of "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow").  The Morgan not
> only looks funny, it sounds funny: when you spin the key it coughs
> fitfully
> to life, belching and spluttering like the 18-cylinder radial of a P-47
> Thunderbolt.

> Arranged into a bewildering array of mismatched FIA-sanctioned classes
> (the
> Morgan competes against the C5-R), the 18 or so cars in GTR all feel
> different, handle different, sound different, and have different
> personalities.  Surprisingly, the front-engined cars are easier to drive
> than the rear-engined cars, but among the Big Guns, only the front-engined
> Prodrive Ferrari 550 Maranello and the theoretically antiquated Viper
> GTS-R
> are able to keep up with the fleet Saleen S7-R (tricky to drive) and the
> surprisingly muscular Lamborghini Murcielago (a pussycat to drive).

> The Corvette C5-R is also a sweetheart to drive, despite its brutal looks.
> The C5-R ver that comes with the game has an overly fussy paintjob, but as
> with most of GTR's cars, you can download alternative skins, including
> that
> of the famed # 63 Corvette that won its class at Le Mans.  The Lister
> Storm
> that was in the "press" demo along with the Morgan is still there, and a
> blast to drive, if not quite competitive.

> My favorite car turned out to be the oddly-named Vertigo, which looks like
> a
> cross between a Panoz Esperante and the old wooden-chassis Marcos.  The
> Vertigo is powered by a 342-hp Alfa V6, but it's really no match against
> the
> bigger cars in its class.  A sweet ride, very smooth, no vices, no drama,
> easy to wheel around the soaring, swooping Nurburgring.  And despite the
> BMW
> Z3M's econo-car looks, it has 380 horsepower under the hood and enormous
> tires and is capable of great big hairy powerslides.  The Morgan, with its
> 460-hp BMW V8, is also a hoot to drive (even if it feels like it's still
> got
> a sliding-pillar suspension with about the same front-end geometry as a
> 1936
> Volkswagen).  It's a great ride; all elbows and a**holes.  The only thing
> missing: a silk scarf.

> The best thing about GTR is probably the sounds.  This is the first sim
> where the cars sound like cars, not a bunch of disparate .wav files
> ham-fistedly juggled by the game engine to produce car-like noises.  The
> engines sound like what they are (L4, L6, flat 6, V6, V8, V10, and V12),
> the
> gear-whine is true-to-life, the on-and-off throttle response is correct,
> and
> the slicks don't squeal like passenger-car tires, they scuff the way
> they're
> supposed to (and skitter when pushed hard).  Even axle-tramp is modeled.
> At
> least it's all good from inside the cockpit.  The outside "car-by" effects
> are less convincing, and the sound of the AI cars is reminiscent of Peter
> Ustinov's mouth noises in his immortal "Grand Prix of Gibralter" from 40
> years ago.

> And the tracks?  As Jon Stewart would say, "Mmmm...not so much."  The 10
> tracks that ship with the game replicate those on the FIA's GT
> Championship
> calendar, but other than the modern Spa, they're either emasculated,
> chicane-infested versions of once-great tracks (like Monza), or boring,
> dull, flat modern tracks (like Magny-Cours).  A trickle of 3rd-party
> tracks
> (sure to become a flood) includes several versions of the Nordschleife
> (nobody's got it right yet), a terrible version of Le Mans (somehow
> running
> endlessly downhill, like an M.C. Escher painting), and two really neat
> small
> tracks, Sweden's Falkenberg and Germany's Norisring.  The most dramatic
> scenery: the 24-hour race at Spa, where you go from day to dusk to night
> to
> dawn to day (not smooth segues, unfortunately - there are awkward pauses
> for
> scene changes, as if in an amateur theater production ).  Driving at night
> is a new experience...and particularly harrowing.

> The cars don't simply drone around these these tracks like marbles in a
> chute.  They feel alive.  They interact with the surface.  The tracks
> themselves are wildly uneven, in some places billiard-table smooth,
> elsewhere washboard bumpy, especially in the braking zones.  You can feel
> the suspension working and the tires dancing.  The grip changes not merely
> according to the temperature (and weather - rain is modelled), but, as the
> track "rubbers in" and marbles build up, from your first practice laps,
> through qualifying, to the duration of the race itself.  "Intense" just
> barely begins to describe it.  There's so much going on that's missing
> from
> other sims: the exhaust headers spit flame on the overrun, brakelights
> flash, clag clatters against the undertray, and you can use an IR
> head-tracker to look around the cockpit.

> Until something better comes along, the best test track is Spa, and the
> critical turn is Eau Rouge.  Depending on which car you drive, and how
> it's
> set up, Eau Rouge can either be a dream or a nightmare; as graceful as a
> Patty Wagstaff hammerhead stall or as scary as going over Niagra Falls in
> a
> kayak.  Doug Arnao, a real-world racer (he won an SCCA Solo Championship
> in
> a wicked tube-frame Porsche) who helped me write "Four-Wheel Drift" (the
> GPL
> strategy guide), and formerly a denizen of this forum, has tweaked GTR's
> physics model and was responsible for the default setups, which are aces.
> Also in the credits: over 200 FIA-licensed drivers whose input was
> solicited
> for the driving model, and a couple dozen real-world teams who vetted the
> gameplay.

> The gameplay involves competing with up to 56 reasonably well-behaved AI
> cars on the track (the starting grid at Spa goes back up and around La
> Source) or up to 30 cars online.  Theoretically.  Most of the online races
> I
> saw had less than 20 cars.  I've seen up to 60 servers on the matchmaking
> s/w that comes with the game, and the pings were usually in the 100-125
> range.  Most of the servers have been in Germany, obviously, and while
> SimBin seems to have licked the old ISI problem of the game pausing for a
> fraction of a second whenever a new player joins (now you can only join
> during practice, not qualifying or the race itself), there remains a bunch
> of stubborn anomalies in the Net code, steadily being erased by Ian Bell
> and
> his staff of code monkeys in London.  There have been several patches,
> updates and "hot fixes" since the game was first released, including a
> "save-game" feature that works in mid-race, and while not all the problems
> have been solved (or even addressed), I get the distinct feeling that
> SimBin
> cares about their customers and is working hard to make them happy.

> What more could you ask?

> Well, they could lose the

...

read more »

Steve Smit

GTR - An Appreciation

by Steve Smit » Fri, 21 Jan 2005 11:26:57

Sure enuf, Dean!

"Dean Purdy" <njeye...@optonline.net> wrote in message

news:pXDHd.14$Sk7.0@fe09.lga...
> Steve, as usual a great read. Please let us know when your story in C&D
will
> hit the news stands.

> --
>                                    See ya in the pits,
>                                            Dean

> I have a terrible memory. In fact my memory's so bad I can't remember how
> long it's been since I've forgotten anything.

> "Steve Smith" <blowbackNOS...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:b4cHd.29522$Xs6.16777@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> > GTR - A Sim to Believe In

> > (Part Preview, Part Review)

> > I'm amazed at the outpouring of negativity surrounding SimBin's "GTR"
(for
> > the FIA's "GT Racing") by people who haven't played the game...even some
> > from people who haven't bothered to play the demo!  And among those who
> > have
> > actually played the game, a lot of the complaints are picayune, like the
> > game doesn't strictly follow the FIA's insanely complicated rulebook, or
> > the
> > track marshals' booths aren't the regulation size.

> > The truth is, it's a great game.  Yes, it has some rough edges, and thus
> > far
> > it's only available--legally--in Germany (time-frame for U.S. distro:
Feb.
> > or March), but no, it's neither broken nor a simple mod of EA's Formula
1
> > Challenge (altho SimBin has licensed ISI's "Motor 1" physics engine,
along
> > with all that rococo FIA livery).   The bottom line is that GTR comes
> > closer
> > to an authentic racing experience than anything else that doesn't
require
> > a
> > Nomex driving suit and a 5-point seat harness.

> > I've driven almost three thousand laps of GTR, both online and off, for
an
> > assignment from Car and Driver, and as someone who's put six years into
> > GPL,
> > beta-tested a myriad of PC and console games, and raced both real-world
> > cars
> > (Trans-Am, SCCA Nationals) and every kind of racing simulation there is
> > (beginning with Dave Kaemmer's original Indy 500), I'm here to tell you
> > that
> > GTR is the best thing to come roaring down the track--for car guys as
well
> > as computer geeks--since Papyrus' NASCAR Racing 2003...and GTR makes
> > NR2003
> > seem positively crude by comparison.

> > Through the good offices of Ian Bell, who oversees SimBin's development
> > team
> > in London, I was able to obtain a pre-release of the English-language
> > version, eventually patched to ver 1.2.3, and I've since unofficially
> > downloaded several 3rd-party tracks (including a 24-hour version of the
> > mighty Nurburgring).  To put it plainly: I love this game.  Yes, it's
got
> > more bugs than the Okefenokee Swamp in August (the menus are a mess, the
> > replay system is frustrating, the multiplayer is iffy, and there is a
> > surfeit of small annoyances), but overall it's hard-core: deeply
> > immersive,
> > very satisfying, and full of promise.  Sure, I signed a NDA, but Ian
said
> > I
> > can vent my impressions of the game, so here goes.

> > First of all: the cars.  There are a slew of them, from the mundane (a
> > gaggle of Porsche 911s...altho a 3rd-party GT1 is lurking in the wings)
to
> > the exotic (the widely-unknown Gillet Vertigo Streiff, a Belgian bolide
> > named after an obscure French F1 driver of the 80s) to the awesome (the
> > Corvette C5-R) to the sublime (a trio of Ferraris) to the ridiculous (a
> > BMW
> > *hatchback*, ferchrissake, and a neo-deco Morgan 8 Aero that looks like
> > something out of "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow").  The Morgan
not
> > only looks funny, it sounds funny: when you spin the key it coughs
> > fitfully
> > to life, belching and spluttering like the 18-cylinder radial of a P-47
> > Thunderbolt.

> > Arranged into a bewildering array of mismatched FIA-sanctioned classes
> > (the
> > Morgan competes against the C5-R), the 18 or so cars in GTR all feel
> > different, handle different, sound different, and have different
> > personalities.  Surprisingly, the front-engined cars are easier to drive
> > than the rear-engined cars, but among the Big Guns, only the
front-engined
> > Prodrive Ferrari 550 Maranello and the theoretically antiquated Viper
> > GTS-R
> > are able to keep up with the fleet Saleen S7-R (tricky to drive) and the
> > surprisingly muscular Lamborghini Murcielago (a pussycat to drive).

> > The Corvette C5-R is also a sweetheart to drive, despite its brutal
looks.
> > The C5-R ver that comes with the game has an overly fussy paintjob, but
as
> > with most of GTR's cars, you can download alternative skins, including
> > that
> > of the famed # 63 Corvette that won its class at Le Mans.  The Lister
> > Storm
> > that was in the "press" demo along with the Morgan is still there, and a
> > blast to drive, if not quite competitive.

> > My favorite car turned out to be the oddly-named Vertigo, which looks
like
> > a
> > cross between a Panoz Esperante and the old wooden-chassis Marcos.  The
> > Vertigo is powered by a 342-hp Alfa V6, but it's really no match against
> > the
> > bigger cars in its class.  A sweet ride, very smooth, no vices, no
drama,
> > easy to wheel around the soaring, swooping Nurburgring.  And despite the
> > BMW
> > Z3M's econo-car looks, it has 380 horsepower under the hood and enormous
> > tires and is capable of great big hairy powerslides.  The Morgan, with
its
> > 460-hp BMW V8, is also a hoot to drive (even if it feels like it's still
> > got
> > a sliding-pillar suspension with about the same front-end geometry as a
> > 1936
> > Volkswagen).  It's a great ride; all elbows and a**holes.  The only
thing
> > missing: a silk scarf.

> > The best thing about GTR is probably the sounds.  This is the first sim
> > where the cars sound like cars, not a bunch of disparate .wav files
> > ham-fistedly juggled by the game engine to produce car-like noises.  The
> > engines sound like what they are (L4, L6, flat 6, V6, V8, V10, and V12),
> > the
> > gear-whine is true-to-life, the on-and-off throttle response is correct,
> > and
> > the slicks don't squeal like passenger-car tires, they scuff the way
> > they're
> > supposed to (and skitter when pushed hard).  Even axle-tramp is modeled.
> > At
> > least it's all good from inside the cockpit.  The outside "car-by"
effects
> > are less convincing, and the sound of the AI cars is reminiscent of
Peter
> > Ustinov's mouth noises in his immortal "Grand Prix of Gibralter" from 40
> > years ago.

> > And the tracks?  As Jon Stewart would say, "Mmmm...not so much."  The 10
> > tracks that ship with the game replicate those on the FIA's GT
> > Championship
> > calendar, but other than the modern Spa, they're either emasculated,
> > chicane-infested versions of once-great tracks (like Monza), or boring,
> > dull, flat modern tracks (like Magny-Cours).  A trickle of 3rd-party
> > tracks
> > (sure to become a flood) includes several versions of the Nordschleife
> > (nobody's got it right yet), a terrible version of Le Mans (somehow
> > running
> > endlessly downhill, like an M.C. Escher painting), and two really neat
> > small
> > tracks, Sweden's Falkenberg and Germany's Norisring.  The most dramatic
> > scenery: the 24-hour race at Spa, where you go from day to dusk to night
> > to
> > dawn to day (not smooth segues, unfortunately - there are awkward pauses
> > for
> > scene changes, as if in an amateur theater production ).  Driving at
night
> > is a new experience...and particularly harrowing.

> > The cars don't simply drone around these these tracks like marbles in a
> > chute.  They feel alive.  They interact with the surface.  The tracks
> > themselves are wildly uneven, in some places billiard-table smooth,
> > elsewhere washboard bumpy, especially in the braking zones.  You can
feel
> > the suspension working and the tires dancing.  The grip changes not
merely
> > according to the temperature (and weather - rain is modelled), but, as
the
> > track "rubbers in" and marbles build up, from your first practice laps,
> > through qualifying, to the duration of the race itself.  "Intense" just
> > barely begins to describe it.  There's so much going on that's missing
> > from
> > other sims: the exhaust headers spit flame on the overrun, brakelights
> > flash, clag clatters against the undertray, and you can use an IR
> > head-tracker to look around the cockpit.

> > Until something better comes along, the best test track is Spa, and the
> > critical turn is Eau Rouge.  Depending on which car you drive, and how
> > it's
> > set up, Eau Rouge can either be a dream or a nightmare; as graceful as a
> > Patty Wagstaff hammerhead stall or as scary as going over Niagra Falls
in
> > a
> > kayak.  Doug Arnao, a real-world racer (he won an SCCA Solo Championship
> > in
> > a wicked tube-frame Porsche) who helped me write "Four-Wheel Drift" (the
> > GPL
> > strategy guide), and formerly a denizen of this forum, has tweaked GTR's
> > physics model and was responsible for the default setups, which are
aces.
> > Also in the credits: over 200 FIA-licensed drivers whose input was
> > solicited
> > for the driving model, and a couple dozen real-world teams who vetted
the
> > gameplay.

> > The gameplay involves competing with up to 56 reasonably well-behaved AI
> > cars on the track (the starting grid at Spa goes back up and around La
> > Source) or up to 30 cars online.  Theoretically.  Most of the online
races
> > I
> > saw had less than 20 cars.  I've seen up to 60 servers on the
matchmaking
> > s/w that comes with the game, and the pings were usually in the 100-125
> > range.  Most of the servers have been in Germany, obviously, and while
> > SimBin seems to have licked the old ISI problem of the game pausing for
a
> > fraction of a second whenever a new player joins (now you can only join
> > during practice, not qualifying or the race itself), there remains a
bunch
> > of stubborn anomalies in the Net code, steadily being erased by Ian Bell

...

read more »

Byron Forbe

GTR - An Appreciation

by Byron Forbe » Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:06:48

    Unfortunately it's a case of them having a point yet no clue imo.
Whenever I hear a company speak about marketing I find it very depressing.
Do they really think we give a shit about their marketing???????????????
Those are not the words of pioneers and those that properly promote sim
racing - they are the words of a run of the mill, dime a dozen, monopoly
player. :((

    Very depressing!


Bruce Kennewel

GTR - An Appreciation

by Bruce Kennewel » Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:43:30

Attracting a long-term following of a (relatively) small section of the
market-place isn't the name of the game in the commercial world.
"Mass market appeal" is what provides income, not the elitist clique.

Bruce.


Bruce Kennewel

GTR - An Appreciation

by Bruce Kennewel » Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:45:20

If I had shares in a company that >>DIDN'T<< speak about marketing, I would
be somewhat alarmed!

Bruce.


Byron Forbe

GTR - An Appreciation

by Byron Forbe » Wed, 26 Jan 2005 10:31:41

    And if they were talking to shareholders when they spoke of "marketing"
then that'd be appropriate. To come onto their own "online" forum and speak
of "marketing research" and how multiplay and league support is not a big
concern is the height of ignorance. Not too mention the fact that if they do
these things right, which should be a snap for a programming team with a
clue, then they will undoubtedly increase their sales. Anyway, someone
corrected that statement pretty quick smart anyway - just that it ever
existed by anyone on that team is disturbing though.

    And as I said on that forum, what's their market research based on
anyway? Where's a state of the art sim, based on modern, highly exciting and
interesting (ie mass immediate, obvious appeal). There are 2 sims done
right - GPL and Nascar - neither have huge appeal across the board. Like I
said to them, do GTR right (proper multi and league support) and then tell
me about market research.


> If I had shares in a company that >>DIDN'T<< speak about marketing, I
> would
> be somewhat alarmed!

> Bruce.



>> Whenever I hear a company speak about marketing I find it very
>> depressing.

alex martin

GTR - An Appreciation

by alex martin » Wed, 26 Jan 2005 22:33:28

Wouldn't have a link would ya?


>    And if they were talking to shareholders when they spoke of "marketing"
> then that'd be appropriate. To come onto their own "online" forum and
> speak of "marketing research" and how multiplay and league support is not
> a big concern is the height of ignorance. Not too mention the fact that if
> they do these things right, which should be a snap for a programming team
> with a clue, then they will undoubtedly increase their sales. Anyway,
> someone corrected that statement pretty quick smart anyway - just that it
> ever existed by anyone on that team is disturbing though.

>    And as I said on that forum, what's their market research based on
> anyway? Where's a state of the art sim, based on modern, highly exciting
> and interesting (ie mass immediate, obvious appeal). There are 2 sims done
> right - GPL and Nascar - neither have huge appeal across the board. Like I
> said to them, do GTR right (proper multi and league support) and then tell
> me about market research.



>> If I had shares in a company that >>DIDN'T<< speak about marketing, I
>> would
>> be somewhat alarmed!

>> Bruce.



>>> Whenever I hear a company speak about marketing I find it very
>>> depressing.

De

GTR - An Appreciation

by De » Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:12:54

""And if they were talking to shareholders when they spoke of "marketing"
then that'd be appropriate. To come onto their own "online" forum and speak
of "marketing research" and how multiplay and league support is not a big
concern is the height of ignorance. Not too mention the fact that if they do
these things right, which should be a snap for a programming team with a
clue, then they will undoubtedly increase their sales. Anyway, someone
corrected that statement pretty quick smart anyway - just that it ever
existed by anyone on that team is disturbing though.

    And as I said on that forum, what's their market research based on
anyway? Where's a state of the art sim, based on modern, highly exciting and
interesting (ie mass immediate, obvious appeal). There are 2 sims done
right - GPL and Nascar - neither have huge appeal across the board. Like I
said to them, do GTR right (proper multi and league support) and then tell
me about market research.""

Nothing of the sort was ever said. The primary concern for the team has been
to develop the online side with a view to supporting the *** teams and
leagues. That's why the latest patch centres on just that.

You probably refer to a gtr-game 'forum' post by Ian Bell which responded to
a customer stating that SimBin MUST support the leagues to be successful.
Ian responded that given how sales are going, it's not something SimBin MUST
do, but it is something they want to do and are doing as they want the same
features that the league racing *** desire.

Here:
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Besides that, Ian has been online asking questions in the lobby only once,
the purpose of which was to ascertain which features the league racers would
want so we at SimBin can code them in.

Best regards,

SimBin Dev.


>    And if they were talking to shareholders when they spoke of "marketing"
> then that'd be appropriate. To come onto their own "online" forum and
> speak of "marketing research" and how multiplay and league support is not
> a big concern is the height of ignorance. Not too mention the fact that if
> they do these things right, which should be a snap for a programming team
> with a clue, then they will undoubtedly increase their sales. Anyway,
> someone corrected that statement pretty quick smart anyway - just that it
> ever existed by anyone on that team is disturbing though.

>    And as I said on that forum, what's their market research based on
> anyway? Where's a state of the art sim, based on modern, highly exciting
> and interesting (ie mass immediate, obvious appeal). There are 2 sims done
> right - GPL and Nascar - neither have huge appeal across the board. Like I
> said to them, do GTR right (proper multi and league support) and then tell
> me about market research.



>> If I had shares in a company that >>DIDN'T<< speak about marketing, I
>> would
>> be somewhat alarmed!

>> Bruce.



>>> Whenever I hear a company speak about marketing I find it very
>>> depressing.

Byron Forbe

GTR - An Appreciation

by Byron Forbe » Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:59:52


    Nothing of the sort - and then you go on to point out exactly what I was
talking about! LOL.

    here's a copy of what was quoted earlier in the very thread you point to
but earlier in it -
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

"   I will say that the league communities make up a very small proportion
of the GTR purchase base, so none of this is essential for the future of
GTR. We do though intend to continually add to the GTR experience for ALL
fans and as a result look implement as many requested features as we can.
The team are constantly monitoring requests and nothing gets missed. "

    This clearly implies what I said.

    See above.

    Good on you SimBin Dev. 10/10 for the guts to come in here! :) Good to
see you keep up with what the guts of the sim racing community think ie ras.
Don't take it too hard - I did say I was happy to see this rectified
immediately! :) I for one am happy with the step to 1.23. However, the thing
does need some more TLC b4 final release of course.

De

GTR - An Appreciation

by De » Thu, 27 Jan 2005 20:26:06

"Good to
see you keep up with what the guts of the sim racing community think ie ras.
Don't take it too hard - I did say I was happy to see this rectified
immediately! :)"

Cheers!  This does underline the point also - it's actually part of my
SimBin job description (and I know it is also for some others) to guage the
wishes of the *** fanbase to further improve the product.

Yes, 1.23 is a great improvement in many areas, it isn't until you have 800
people in a lobby jumping in and out of races that some issues come to light
and thankfully the team have knuckled down and resolved them one by one. I
know that one of our online coders missed christmas to fix some things! He
put in a 48 hour no-sleep burst starting christmas eve when... and he hasn't
let us forget it :) . The final update due out with the international
release takes it very close to perfection and given the myriad variations in
connections and systems that's about as good as a dev' can hope for. The
'very hard to please' beta testers now feel it's the premier online racing
experience and there are a few new features added because the ***
fanbase asked for them.

SimBin Devs.




>> Nothing of the sort was ever said. The primary concern for the team has
>> been to develop the online side with a view to supporting the ***
>> teams and leagues. That's why the latest patch centres on just that.

>    Nothing of the sort - and then you go on to point out exactly what I
> was talking about! LOL.

>    here's a copy of what was quoted earlier in the very thread you point
> to but earlier in it -
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> "   I will say that the league communities make up a very small proportion
> of the GTR purchase base, so none of this is essential for the future of
> GTR. We do though intend to continually add to the GTR experience for ALL
> fans and as a result look implement as many requested features as we can.
> The team are constantly monitoring requests and nothing gets missed. "

>    This clearly implies what I said.

>> You probably refer to a gtr-game 'forum' post by Ian Bell which responded
>> to a customer stating that SimBin MUST support the leagues to be
>> successful. Ian responded that given how sales are going, it's not
>> something SimBin MUST do, but it is something they want to do and are
>> doing as they want the same features that the league racing ***
>> desire.

>> Here:
>> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

>    See above.

>> Besides that, Ian has been online asking questions in the lobby only
>> once, the purpose of which was to ascertain which features the league
>> racers would want so we at SimBin can code them in.

>> Best regards,

>> SimBin Dev.

>    Good on you SimBin Dev. 10/10 for the guts to come in here! :) Good to
> see you keep up with what the guts of the sim racing community think ie
> ras. Don't take it too hard - I did say I was happy to see this rectified
> immediately! :) I for one am happy with the step to 1.23. However, the
> thing does need some more TLC b4 final release of course.

Uwe Sch??rkam

GTR - An Appreciation

by Uwe Sch??rkam » Thu, 27 Jan 2005 21:28:59


> connections and systems that's about as good as a dev' can hope for. The
> 'very hard to please' beta testers now feel it's the premier online racing
> experience and there are a few new features added because the ***
> fanbase asked for them.

Good news! Will we see online teams and online driver changes during
24h events? Will those show-stopping win98se /ME  bugs be fixed?

Cheers,

uwe

--
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Mitch_

GTR - An Appreciation

by Mitch_ » Fri, 28 Jan 2005 00:58:57


> "Good to
> see you keep up with what the guts of the sim racing community think ie
> ras. Don't take it too hard - I did say I was happy to see this rectified
> immediately! :)"

> Cheers!  This does underline the point also - it's actually part of my
> SimBin job description (and I know it is also for some others) to guage
> the wishes of the *** fanbase to further improve the product.

> Yes, 1.23 is a great improvement in many areas, it isn't until you have
> 800 people in a lobby jumping in and out of races that some issues come to
> light and thankfully the team have knuckled down and resolved them one by
> one. I know that one of our online coders missed christmas to fix some
> things! He put in a 48 hour no-sleep burst starting christmas eve when...
> and he hasn't let us forget it :) . The final update due out with the
> international release takes it very close to perfection and given the
> myriad variations in connections and systems that's about as good as a
> dev' can hope for. The 'very hard to please' beta testers now feel it's
> the premier online racing experience and there are a few new features
> added because the *** fanbase asked for them.

> SimBin Devs.




- Show quoted text -



>>> Nothing of the sort was ever said. The primary concern for the team has
>>> been to develop the online side with a view to supporting the ***
>>> teams and leagues. That's why the latest patch centres on just that.

>>    Nothing of the sort - and then you go on to point out exactly what I
>> was talking about! LOL.

>>    here's a copy of what was quoted earlier in the very thread you point
>> to but earlier in it -
>> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

>> "   I will say that the league communities make up a very small
>> proportion of the GTR purchase base, so none of this is essential for the
>> future of GTR. We do though intend to continually add to the GTR
>> experience for ALL fans and as a result look implement as many requested
>> features as we can. The team are constantly monitoring requests and
>> nothing gets missed. "

>>    This clearly implies what I said.

>>> You probably refer to a gtr-game 'forum' post by Ian Bell which
>>> responded to a customer stating that SimBin MUST support the leagues to
>>> be successful. Ian responded that given how sales are going, it's not
>>> something SimBin MUST do, but it is something they want to do and are
>>> doing as they want the same features that the league racing ***
>>> desire.

>>> Here:
>>> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

>>    See above.

>>> Besides that, Ian has been online asking questions in the lobby only
>>> once, the purpose of which was to ascertain which features the league
>>> racers would want so we at SimBin can code them in.

>>> Best regards,

>>> SimBin Dev.

>>    Good on you SimBin Dev. 10/10 for the guts to come in here! :) Good to
>> see you keep up with what the guts of the sim racing community think ie
>> ras. Don't take it too hard - I did say I was happy to see this rectified
>> immediately! :) I for one am happy with the step to 1.23. However, the
>> thing does need some more TLC b4 final release of course.

Just send it out to the rest of the world already :)  I feel like a crack
*** waiting for a fix :)

Mitch
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Mitch_

GTR - An Appreciation

by Mitch_ » Fri, 28 Jan 2005 01:00:08



>> connections and systems that's about as good as a dev' can hope for. The
>> 'very hard to please' beta testers now feel it's the premier online
>> racing experience and there are a few new features added because the
>> *** fanbase asked for them.

> Good news! Will we see online teams and online driver changes during
> 24h events? Will those show-stopping win98se /ME  bugs be fixed?

> Cheers,

> uwe

Win98 is non supported product now and the bugs are unlikely to be fixed
Uwe:)
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Uwe Sch??rkam

GTR - An Appreciation

by Uwe Sch??rkam » Fri, 28 Jan 2005 04:19:32


> Win98 is non supported product now and the bugs are unlikely to be fixed
> Uwe:)

Well, read the box carefully then. 98se is listed in the "recommended"
section.

uwe

--
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Mitch_

GTR - An Appreciation

by Mitch_ » Fri, 28 Jan 2005 05:18:21



>> Win98 is non supported product now and the bugs are unlikely to be fixed
>> Uwe:)

> Well, read the box carefully then. 98se is listed in the "recommended"
> section.

> uwe

Whooosh.  Ya missed the win98 joke.  Or my jokes really suck :)
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