rec.autos.simulators

Hello everyone,

some people asked me to write my opinion about Dave Noonan's converter.
I wasn't informed about the things, because I was very busy in the last
months and did not spend any hour with sim racing. I was also not able
to answer all the e-mails (many) concerning my programs, PLEASE EXCUSE
ME FOR THAT.

I and all the others who helped me, like Nigel Pattinson, John Wallace,
Doug Arnao, Neil Jedrzejewski, Marc Nelson and Robert Hilpert (I've to
mention them again here, because I'm not the god of sim racing, like
someone wrote) invested many hours without any payment. The reason I
(we) decided not to charge for it, was to give something back. I
downloaded many free nice car sets and utilities too. Besides that I'm
not sure if that would be legal. (Someone from Papyrus told me that
they've nothing against my free utilities.)

I can understand that Dave requests for compensation, because I know
that it took him many days (and nights) to build this program, but first
of all does he pay for everything he downloads ? 2nd, compared with the
price of the game itself , 20 pounds are a lot of money for a utility.
If Trevor Kellaway, who wrote the great JAM2BMP program, had just
charged 5 pounds, he'd be rich (Emh, I mean if everyone who is using it
would pay him). 3rd, other people may now also want to charge for their
work. If that's the case, I'll never upload something free too. I hope
that's not the trend. 4th, Dave has not made new LP files for the
tracks. If he suggests the use of my files, that'll not be nice without
my agreement. Ok, he can use my files, if he sends 5 pounds for every
sold converter to UNICEF.<g>

Another thing, I'd like to say:
I read that utilities, like ST2BMP etc. are available on the web. I
never give my agreement for that. I handed this programs to a few people
(maybe 5), who helped me discovering the structure of the track object
files, with the obligation not to give them away, as I don't want to see
'new' tracks, like Daytona. Everyone promised me not to publish this
programs (!?)

One final info:
I'm now (since yesterday) trying to discover the structure of the N2
files myself.

Cheers,

Gerhard Lingenberg

Hi Gerhard,

it's good to see you're alive and well! And it's a shame we havn't heard
from you for so long.

As for your comments on the N2 converter - very deliberate and thoughtful.
I agree that Dave util is a bit too expensive, considering the price Papy
charges for N2.

Also, if he really uses your LP files, this is even less nice, and he
should really be ashamed for doing so. That would be very bad style.

OTOH, I purchased his converter (must not forget to send him the money this
weekend!!) and the tool works just fine. Two little mouseclicks, and
whoops... there's the converted track.

I'm not even that dissatisfied with the car behaviour - although your LP
files were better.

It's nice to hear you're diving into N2 now yourself <g>

Achim

I wrote the converter on my own. After a few weeks of evenings & weekends I
finally took almost a month out of work to crack the problem.
The complexity of the program and the need for support is what motivated me
to ask for payment. I also did not want my work distributed on some
'freeware' basis packaged on CD for somebody else to benefit from.

There is a free version, the full converter can be ordered and is emailed
before I see any payment. On receiving payment I send out another version
which includes improved AI, tree objects etc. I think the AI in that
version is fine, I'll leave others to argue its merits. I do not think that
this method of selling is blatant commercialism.

All converter versions modify the RACE.LP file. On my web site I suggest
using the AI files from The Pits to 'improve' the Free version. I also
thought I had asked for and recieved permission to do this. I will remove
the offending lines.

The payment, which I cannot force out of anybody, is higher than it would
have been if I had not been working on my own and living in the UK.

I have sent out fragments of code to help others in their projects.

The converter does not include data files from Papyrus's products, which is
what I understood, probably incorrectly, to be the main problem.

I think it would be of greatest benefit to everybody to offer to cooperate
with me to produce a N2 to ICR2 converter, a sharing of the workload and
support for this project would mean it could be for free.

Lastly, I hope my tone has not been aggressive, let's not all degenerate
into a flame war over this. There are many more interesting topics
deserving of debate than this one.

Dave Noonan

This is the spirit. And lets hope we can have great LP files, maybe
including even the SPOT1.LP.

Yes!!!!!!

Way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :):):):)

!^NavFont02F00F40008MGC9HGF5CD7C

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06/02/97 11:25
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Using: OUI PRO 1.5.0.2 from http://www.dvorak.com

Hi, Roberto!

How about a NASCAR2 race some day through the net.

Have you tried it before??

!^NavFont02F010B0007MGC2HHS49ED

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06/02/97 11:27
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Using: OUI PRO 1.5.0.2 from http://www.dvorak.com

Atten: David Noonan
David: Read with interest your comments about receiving payment for your
efforts for your an N2 track converter.
When N1 came out "Way back When" in late '94, many NASCAR enthusiasts set
about the task of creating cars, files, FAQ's & utilities which others
could enjoy.

Loading these into CompuServe and other on-line services was at "That Time"
"way Back When" the most effecient way to reach the largest volume of N1
enthusiasts. (the net was a desolate wasteland for N1 files at that time)

Having been the "originator and creator" of the "Original IROC" N1 set,
ACARS95, etc., etc., among many other files, created HOT demand in their
day, and firece competition demanded only The Best an author could produce!

Then some guy comes along, in '96 takes the files - and those of MANY other
authors, places them on a CD, writes a rather "lame attempt at a book"
about N1 (IMHO) and got something like 14.95US$ a copy.
NEVER did the "author or "publisher" >Ever offer to re-imburse the files'
creators for their efforts*  and the "publisher" *balked at ANY hint of
recourse.

"Traditionally" Papy N1 & N2 based files or re-worked files were never
charged for by their creators - those benefitting most were:

- Papyrus (sold out to Sierra for 42 US$ Million, only for Sierra to be
subsequently taken over by CUC);
- a handful of CompuServe forum operators * * yes folks - forums ARE a
commercial enterprise! - like boutiques in a mall! they Pay rent - I've
been told by CIS -  upwards of 10,000 US$ /Month, and share in the fees &
on-line charges the fourm generates!! > the forum operators Never protected
the INTEGRITY of file origination and this Drove a number of N1 files
creators to quit the service, in effect, going "under ground".
- the occasional "publisher" who took files, ideas from others (IMHO)
assembled them together and made a commercial enterprise out of the
distribution of these files (IMHO) - IRONICALLY these outfits taking these
files COPYRIGHTED this material produced by others!!
- phone and connect companies

I OFTEN WONDER >>how many files by those long forogtten "file pioneers"
(relative word in computer and N1 world)

for their labour?
these files  - that  exist on the Hard Drives of NASCAR racing sim
enthusiasts the world over (your's, too PERHAPS????) without even so much
as a HINT of gratitude toward the Original authors?!
Many files were loaded & shuffled off in so many directions, with many
Others' WRONGFULLY taking and receiving the credit  for the files' creation
- a number of whom I see on R.A.S. here  now with internet pages and sites
of their own!

You say you need the $ $ $ to help develop the converter & to re-imburse
for your time and effort(s).
Why not try to enlist the efforts and co-operation of others' in creating
and fulfilling that Fine Tradition of making the Best Possible Nascar
Racing Sim files Possible - N/C -  afterall, HUNDREDS who came before have
done so!?
And in doing so, perhaps re-kindle that fierce competition that once
existed to PRODUCE the Best Possible NASCAR Sim files for ALL to enjoy as
FREE WARE!
regrettable! :-(

Dave, The Hammer

For the AI, they are far from good. On Cleveland, for instance, even using
Gerhard LP files, two of the turns (#3 and one before the last (just before
the pit entrance)) are almost impossible to do without almost stopping the
car. I have done a quick convertion using Gerhard ICR2->N1 Cleveland
convertion, and the track is great. I, personally, would never spent money
on something that I am not 100% sure will meet what I am expecting. If you
really have a improved version, upgrade your free one. You will probably
receive more requests for the full version.

And, if Gerhard is now working on a convertion himself, I can just applaud.
Competition is teh key for great software. This is probably a stronger
reason for David release an improved free version.

Roberto Reboucas
Sao Paulo, Brazil