rec.autos.simulators

by **Gerry Aitke** » Sat, 06 Jul 2002 01:56:22

> why not have both? :) toys are what make life.....

I think the hyper looks silly. :) I also hate 'simulators' that try to
look like the thing they are simulating from the outside.

Have a look at the photo second from the left on the top line:

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

That's more like it!

Cheers

Gerry

by **David Powel** » Sat, 06 Jul 2002 03:27:49

some people just have poor taste i guess :P

> > why not have both? :) toys are what make life.....

> I think the hyper looks silly. :) I also hate 'simulators' that try to
> look like the thing they are simulating from the outside.

> Have a look at the photo second from the left on the top line:

> http://www.pabst-racing.com/Winstoncuptesting2002/index.html

> That's more like it!

> Cheers

> Gerry

by **Eldre** » Sat, 06 Jul 2002 12:31:58

>why not have both? :) toys are what make life.....

>> > Uh, Gerry. Where'd you get that kart? They got more? ;-)

>> 2nd hand, UKP2500. That's about the same as a fully loaded hyper.

Because everyone doesn't have money to burn, unfortunately...

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Stolen vehicle! - Det,MI
1999 Blk Pontiac Grand Am SE, Lic# 947SLS,
VIN:1G2NE12EXXM815898 carjacked from Grnfld/W. Chicago 6/30/02.Contact Officer
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by **Rolf Weseman** » Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:34:51

As you said, my Microsoft Force Feedback Wheel is 3 1/2 years old now,
without problems. It is better than Logi, it keeps its quality over the
years, because it has no mechanical (now it comes: my english ;-)) "looking
how the angles of the wheel are, but it has optical steering of the potis
(hope, someone will understand these words).

Rolf

by **GTX_SlotCa** » Wed, 31 Jul 2002 06:00:49

> As you said, my Microsoft Force Feedback Wheel is 3 1/2 years old now,
> without problems. It is better than Logi, it keeps its quality over the
> years, because it has no mechanical (now it comes: my english ;-))
"looking
> how the angles of the wheel are, but it has optical steering of the potis
> (hope, someone will understand these words).

And, of course, the use of optics instead of a potentiometer gives it a
lower steering resolution than other force feedback wheels ;-)

--
Slot

Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com

by **Rolf Weseman** » Wed, 31 Jul 2002 07:43:02

Does this mean, I have not the same precision as with a mechanical wheel?
Rolf

> > As you said, my Microsoft Force Feedback Wheel is 3 1/2 years old now,
> > without problems. It is better than Logi, it keeps its quality over the
> > years, because it has no mechanical (now it comes: my english ;-))
> "looking
> > how the angles of the wheel are, but it has optical steering of the
potis
> > (hope, someone will understand these words).

> And, of course, the use of optics instead of a potentiometer gives it a
> lower steering resolution than other force feedback wheels ;-)

> --
> Slot

> Tweaks & Reviews
> www.slottweak.com

by **GTX_SlotCa** » Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:10:58

Yes, that's what it means. Have you ever wondered why the high end wheels,
like TSW, BRD, & ECCI don't use optics?
Optics used in a wheel (a mouse is a different story) are capable of greater
resolution, but suffer from jitters. By the time they get the jitters out,
the resulting resolution is less. Sometimes much less. One optical joystick
MS had (I don't know if it's still made) had a resolution of only 25. The
MSFF isn't that bad, maybe 96 (if I remember correctly). Using a pot it's
generally above 128 and nearer 256 which, I believe, is the mechanical limit
Windows will see. High quality pots will generally have better resolution
than lower quality ones. Higher resolution means more precision and faster
lap times. It can be deceiving because you may not notice any difference
while driving, but you will get better lap times - always.
The MSFF could be one of the most dependable FF wheels made, but it is at
the expense of precision.

--
Slot

Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com

> Does this mean, I have not the same precision as with a mechanical wheel?
> Rolf

> > > As you said, my Microsoft Force Feedback Wheel is 3 1/2 years old now,
> > > without problems. It is better than Logi, it keeps its quality over
the
> > > years, because it has no mechanical (now it comes: my english ;-))
> > "looking
> > > how the angles of the wheel are, but it has optical steering of the
> potis
> > > (hope, someone will understand these words).

> > And, of course, the use of optics instead of a potentiometer gives it a
> > lower steering resolution than other force feedback wheels ;-)

> > --
> > Slot

> > Tweaks & Reviews
> > www.slottweak.com

by **Rolf Weseman** » Wed, 07 Aug 2002 02:43:24

Yes, correct, but an optical system works without any changes for a longer
time. That's the problem: Sometimes changing the potis or a mor stable
system with a less resolution.

Also, if I remember well, all the most expensive wheels are without force
feedback, also are, when I I remember the 2nd time right, the fastest
drivers use non ff-wheels (think, this is one of the many reasons, why I am
so slow ;-))

Rolf

by **GTX_SlotCa** » Wed, 07 Aug 2002 06:57:51

For a long time one of the fastest drivers was using a joystick and pedals.
The fact that Michael Jordan could beat me one-on-one with one arm behind
his back doesn't mean that I'd be better playing that way too. There will
always be a top 1% that are fast no matter what equipment they use.
The high-end wheel manufacturers don't have FF, but it has more to do with
marketing, engineering, profits and re-tooling than it does with the actual
merits of FF. They say FF isn't worth it, and it's a marketing ploy that's
working for them right now. Most of them are not large companies. If you
sell a $1000 wheel with FF, it better be the best FF in the world. That's a
lot of pressure and expense for a relatively small company. I'm sure they
are losing some sales by not offering it. At the very least, if a customer
didn't want to use the FF he could turn it off and still be able to adjust
the wheel damping and center spring to his personal taste.
I have no doubt that, sooner or later, someone will come out with a very
high end wheel that has FF. The question is, will it be one of the current
high-end wheel makers, or someone that's already doing FF; like Logitech or
Act Labs. The hard core sim racing community (the people willing to spend
enough money for this wheel) is growing, not getting smaller.

--
Slot

Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com

rec.autos.simulators

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