rec.autos.simulators

by **Haqsa** » Thu, 07 Nov 2002 02:42:46

I have been working on my PB at Monza lately in GPL, and I discovered
something odd. Whereas most replays and track guides that I have seen
show downshifting to 4th in the Curva Grande and to 2nd briefly in the
Lesmos, I find that I lose absolutely no time by not downshifting, and
gain a great deal of consistency. I stay in 5th through the Curva
Grande and I stay in 3rd all the way through the Lesmos. Currently my
PB in the Eagle, Lotus, Ferrari, and Brabham, all of which are below the
benchmark, use this strategy. Every time I try to add the shifts, I
lose about 0.2 seconds total. When I look at the laps in GPLRA, I can
see that people who downshift get slightly higher longitudinal
acceleration by doing so, but they lose all the time thus gained when
they have to upshift again.

Thing is, my best PB is still only 1:29.22, which I guess is a bit off
the pace compared to on-line racers. So I would just like to hear what
other people do - do you shift at these places or not, and what is your
PB? Am I going to have to learn to shift there in order to get any
faster? Not downshifting really helps prevent spins and has allowed me
to get much more consistent lap times, so I would rather not give up
that strategy if I don't have to. But 1:28 is sooo close, I need to do
something!!! Thanks for any advice.

by **Jim Seamu** » Thu, 07 Nov 2002 03:21:15

Lesmo 2 is the only corner where I change UP during braking (from 2nd up to
3rd)... always feels weird but I find it easier to get the power down at the
exit like that, and it saves a gearchange on the straight. I use 4th for
Curva Grande and 2nd for Lesmo 1 (and 2nd for the short straight between the
Lesmos). PB is 1:28.26 (Lotus) so there are definitely faster people than me
who could give you better advice :0)

by **Malc** » Thu, 07 Nov 2002 04:38:05

I always take the curva grande in 4th, & the Lesmos on 2nd or third, but in
general, the fewer gear changes you can make the better I find.
I'll have to try curva grande in 5th, thanks for the tip!

Malc.

Corner exit speed is vital at most tracks, but none more so than Monza
(except possibly Spa). Practice your exit from the second Lesmos & the
Parabolica. I did this & managed to find nearly a second. Still working on
it though ;-)

Malc.

by **Matt Cate** » Thu, 07 Nov 2002 06:28:28

well it depends on your gear ratios really. and your throttle control.
i always shift to 4th for curve grande, then am in 5th by the left kink
before lesmo1.
i shift to 2nd for lesmo1, but am in 3rd at the apex, till i need to shift
up after lesmo2.
PB is 1:26.93 :)

> > I have been working on my PB at Monza lately in GPL, and I discovered
> > something odd. Whereas most replays and track guides that I have seen
> > show downshifting to 4th in the Curva Grande and to 2nd briefly in the
> > Lesmos, I find that I lose absolutely no time by not downshifting, and
> > gain a great deal of consistency. I stay in 5th through the Curva
> > Grande and I stay in 3rd all the way through the Lesmos. Currently my
> > PB in the Eagle, Lotus, Ferrari, and Brabham, all of which are below the
> > benchmark, use this strategy. Every time I try to add the shifts, I
> > lose about 0.2 seconds total. When I look at the laps in GPLRA, I can
> > see that people who downshift get slightly higher longitudinal
> > acceleration by doing so, but they lose all the time thus gained when
> > they have to upshift again.

> I always take the curva grande in 4th, & the Lesmos on 2nd or third, but
in
> general, the fewer gear changes you can make the better I find.
> I'll have to try curva grande in 5th, thanks for the tip!

> Malc.

> > Thing is, my best PB is still only 1:29.22, which I guess is a bit off
> > the pace compared to on-line racers. So I would just like to hear what
> > other people do - do you shift at these places or not, and what is your
> > PB? Am I going to have to learn to shift there in order to get any
> > faster? Not downshifting really helps prevent spins and has allowed me
> > to get much more consistent lap times, so I would rather not give up
> > that strategy if I don't have to. But 1:28 is sooo close, I need to do
> > something!!! Thanks for any advice.

> Corner exit speed is vital at most tracks, but none more so than Monza
> (except possibly Spa). Practice your exit from the second Lesmos & the
> Parabolica. I did this & managed to find nearly a second. Still working on
> it though ;-)

> Malc.

by **Careful Hac** » Thu, 07 Nov 2002 08:20:58

I always shift down to 4th in the Curva Grande and sometimes a blip on
the brakes to settle the car. Do you use any brake or just let the
engine braking do the work?

As for the Lesmos, I have experimented with only going down to third,
but have found that while racing, down to second makes me more
competitive out of the first Lesmo into the second.

Having said all that, your PB is better than my 1:29.54

Glenn

> I have been working on my PB at Monza lately in GPL, and I discovered
> something odd. Whereas most replays and track guides that I have seen
> show downshifting to 4th in the Curva Grande and to 2nd briefly in the
> Lesmos, I find that I lose absolutely no time by not downshifting, and
> gain a great deal of consistency. I stay in 5th through the Curva
> Grande and I stay in 3rd all the way through the Lesmos. Currently my
> PB in the Eagle, Lotus, Ferrari, and Brabham, all of which are below the
> benchmark, use this strategy. Every time I try to add the shifts, I
> lose about 0.2 seconds total. When I look at the laps in GPLRA, I can
> see that people who downshift get slightly higher longitudinal
> acceleration by doing so, but they lose all the time thus gained when
> they have to upshift again.

> Thing is, my best PB is still only 1:29.22, which I guess is a bit off
> the pace compared to on-line racers. So I would just like to hear what
> other people do - do you shift at these places or not, and what is your
> PB? Am I going to have to learn to shift there in order to get any
> faster? Not downshifting really helps prevent spins and has allowed me
> to get much more consistent lap times, so I would rather not give up
> that strategy if I don't have to. But 1:28 is sooo close, I need to do
> something!!! Thanks for any advice.

by **Malc** » Thu, 07 Nov 2002 08:21:20

1:28.04 here.
I use a really tall 2nd & short 3rd.

WR is 1:26.129 but there's a 0:45.016 at the top of the leaderborad. That's
one hell of a railride ;-)

Malc.

by **Damien Smit** » Thu, 07 Nov 2002 09:03:46

Well, I'm only in the low 1:28s at Monza but I find the line out of the
second Lesmo is where most time is gained. There's a lot to be said for
coming round there in 3rd rather than 2nd. I've never tried doing the Curva
Grande in 5th - I'd always just assumed that I wouldn't have enough
acceleration out of the corner, but I guess it would depend on how much
speed you can carry into and through the corner as to how low the revs get.

by **Leo Landma** » Thu, 07 Nov 2002 09:21:33

It's not the acceleration, it's the engine braking. Shifting back before the
corner brings the tail out to help the car turn in (depending on your diff,
gears, driving style etc.). If you don't want to lose time shifting up, you
might as well shift up just before you're back on the throttle again.

Bye,
Leo

by **Haqsa** » Thu, 07 Nov 2002 09:59:46

In the Eagle the revs never get below 7000 in 5th in the Curva Grande,
so that's plenty for pulling through the turn. The only place it really
seems to hurt is after you exit. On the short straight between C.G and
the left hander, you can pull harder in 4th, but then you have to
upshift almost immediately, so for me at least it has usually worked out
to not be worth it.

by **Haqsa** » Thu, 07 Nov 2002 10:03:55

I use light braking and maintain some light pressure on the throttle,
it's the only way I can get a good entrance speed and not end up
sideways. In fact that's why I tried not downshifting in the first
place, shifting to 4th seemed to be what was making it difficult to get
the car settled into the corner. Having said that, earlier today I
tried downshifting after braking, just before getting back on the
throttle. Worked okay, but didn't help my lap time at all.

by **bertr** » Thu, 07 Nov 2002 10:04:06

Since I race mostly F2 (and my league race just happens to be at Monza this
week <heh, heh>), I'd like to pose the same questions with regard to F2.
Would the F1 answers apply, or is the technique/strategy different for F2 at
Monza?

Thanks!

> I have been working on my PB at Monza lately in GPL, and I discovered
> something odd. Whereas most replays and track guides that I have seen
> show downshifting to 4th in the Curva Grande and to 2nd briefly in the
> Lesmos, I find that I lose absolutely no time by not downshifting, and
> gain a great deal of consistency. I stay in 5th through the Curva
> Grande and I stay in 3rd all the way through the Lesmos. Currently my
> PB in the Eagle, Lotus, Ferrari, and Brabham, all of which are below the
> benchmark, use this strategy. Every time I try to add the shifts, I
> lose about 0.2 seconds total. When I look at the laps in GPLRA, I can
> see that people who downshift get slightly higher longitudinal
> acceleration by doing so, but they lose all the time thus gained when
> they have to upshift again.

> Thing is, my best PB is still only 1:29.22, which I guess is a bit off
> the pace compared to on-line racers. So I would just like to hear what
> other people do - do you shift at these places or not, and what is your
> PB? Am I going to have to learn to shift there in order to get any
> faster? Not downshifting really helps prevent spins and has allowed me
> to get much more consistent lap times, so I would rather not give up
> that strategy if I don't have to. But 1:28 is sooo close, I need to do
> something!!! Thanks for any advice.

by **Haqsa** » Thu, 07 Nov 2002 13:10:25

Well my F2 times aren't the greatest either, but my current F2 PB at
Monza uses the same technique. It's 1:36.64 in the Brabham. Given that
that's a little over 2 seconds slower than the world record, I guess
that would be about comparable to a 1:28 or 1:29 in an F1. The Brabham
is a great car with which to use this technique, because it is a torquey
little monster, even in F2 trim. It will pull hard even from very low
revs. In fact it was by blowing a shift in the Brabham that I first
realized that downshifting wasn't necessary, at least at my speed. I
dunno, sounds like I'm the only one doing it this way, but you might
want to try it off line and see how it works.

by **Malc** » Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:34:03

Unlike most circuits I've driven an F2 car on (I'm no F2 expert) I need to
use pretty much the same braking points as F1. The line I take is exactly
the same, and the cornering speeds are similar too. The only place the F2
loses out to the F1 is on the straights.
I did a 1:35.09 there last night in the F2 Brabham.

Malc.

by **Haqsa** » Fri, 08 Nov 2002 10:54:09

Well I did a little more practice and made some progress. Just for fun
I loaded up on about 14 laps worth of fuel, turned off the pitboard, and
drove until I ran out of gas. The idea was just to try different things
without getting too psyched out about actual lap times. I find that
with the pit board on I try too hard - I will set my best time after
only a few laps and after that it is all downhill (uphill?) as I end up
overcontrolling the car more and more. Trying to improve only makes me
slower, it seems. So anyway, the first session was no big deal, best
lap after it was over was only 1:29.79. Second time, however, somehow a
1:28.98 snuck in there! I went back and looked at the replay, then
analyzed it in GPLRA. This time I did shift down to 4th in the Curva
Grande, although it was a late downshift so as not to upset the corner
entry. And this time I got enough of a boost out of it to more than
make up for the time lost upshifting (possibly due to a slightly shorter
4th gear than I was using before). I also shifted to 2nd at the first
Lesmo, carried it through the straight, and then short-shifted the
second one right before the apex. Despite being a bit slow entering the
first Lesmo the rest of that section came out quite nice (this time).
Actually the lap was full of errors, I braked too early for the C.G. and
nearly spun between the Lesmos. I think it would have been a mid 1:28
lap without the mistakes. Then again, without mistakes we would all be
turning world record laps, wouldn't we? Anyway thanks for all the
hints, from you and everybody else who replied. Now I just have to keep
practicing until I can repeat that number. ;o)

by **Malc** » Fri, 08 Nov 2002 21:26:29

Nice one!

Now just do that in every car at every track... ;-)

Malc.

rec.autos.simulators

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