rec.autos.simulators

another update on High Gear. A MGPRS2 review by Stefan Petrovic can be found
on http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Bye,

Kenneth Verburg
Webmaster High Gear

I don't know but...

All the playtesting (not beta, but the playtesting counted as most of the
internal game testing, and the beta was very short) for F1RS and MonacoGP
was done here in Montreal by a group of about 30playtesters.  They don't
know a ***about how a racecar acts on a racetrack, and I will say from the
bottom of my heart they don't know a heck on what should or not be in a
racing simulator.  As I called them, just a bunch of wannabe's.  So don't
wonder why it's that buggy <g>

And yes... to whoever that will email me at Ubisoft you know and I know I
don't have any respect for you, after what happened this summer. Thanks.

<no we bring you back to your normal broadcasting>

-= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-= SimRacing Online http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-= May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

This is because with both F1RS and MGP, the European market got the title way
before anyone else did.  In both cases, the 1st release was VERY buggy and
patches were coming out on a regular basis until it was released to the rest of
the world (hence the 'beta-tester' reference).  MGP isnt supposed to officially
appear here in the US until Feb, but it's already been floating around for some
time and already 2 patches have been released.

internal game testing, and the beta was very short) for F1RS and MonacoGP
was done here in Montreal by a group of about 30playtesters.  They don't
know a ***about how a racecar acts on a racetrack (snipped)<<

I have been saying this myself from the get-go.  It seems that although UBI
does have people working on this sim who are indeed fans of the series.  They
dont seem to actually have any "students of the game", as I would call it.
This is why Papy will always put out a better product than UBI can in their
current state.  Papyrus has people on staff who know the intricacies of the
sport, whereas UBI seems to only have people that have a casual knowledge of it
all.   The best example of this I can give is when I was talking to some UBI
people at their Game Service.  I spent about 35 minutes explaining to them why
camber needs to be implemented on the tracks.  Well at least they listened.  If
they actually do anything about it is a different story altogether...

I should point out however, that the people I have spoken to over at UBI have
been very helpful and receptive to suggestions of mine and freinds.  A public
beta program during the developement phase (ala Papy with the GPL project)
would make things alot better IMHO.  Perhaps it is time for some recruiting on
their part, as they cant seem to get the job done well enough in-house.

With that in mind...
don't have any respect for you, after what happened this summer. Thanks.<<<

Ooooh!  Scandal!  Unless I missed out on this one before.  I have got to hear
about this.  Please share :-)

F1Filter

IMO, the "VERY buggy" is VERY overstated.  Basically, out of the box, the game
has been enjoyable and has not crashed a single time on my machine.  Are there
bugs?  Yes.  The sound still doesn't work in replay.  Initially, there were
other sound probs, the most egregious cured by turning off my card's hardware
sound acceleration. The AI drivers sometimes posted unrealistic qual times.  
That's about all I saw that I'd consider bugs. Others saw more, but to the
level of seriously detracting??  It is not a perfect sim, but a lot of what
people complain about aren't bugs, but are just the way the game is designed.

Now as to whether MGPRS2 is enough of a change to warrant its purchase if you
already have and enjoy F1RS, that's another debate...

I agree with you here.  The problems with this game are overstated, to say
the least.  I like it very much and enjoy racing online.

Now if you want some real bad stuff then just buy some EA products.  To
speak of Ubisoft and EA in the same breath would be totally unfair to
Ubisoft.

Alanb

I myself havent had any real hardware problems running this sim, and it seems
that neither of you have either.  But unfortunately both forums on the
Unofficial and UBI's own site have quite a few people that do.   Whether it is
due to the the program itself or the way these people have their hardware
configured, is another subject altogether.  

As to the question if MGP is a worthwhile upgrade from F1RS.  I uninstalled
F1RS from my hard-drive approximately 1 week after getting MGP.

F1Filter

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Cheers!
John

That wasnt the issue here.  The original poster wanted to know why the
reference to "beta-testers" was being used in the review, and I pointed out why
that was.  Sorry if some people cannot accept the fact that MGP does have bugs
which need to be fixed.  UBI's tech-support themselves have mentioned several
times on the Unofficial's forum that this is their number one priority.  If
that isnt an admission to the fact, then I dont know what is.  Otherwise why
would they be releasing all those patches for...their health???

Your point is well taken however.  There isnt any sim to date that has been
bug-free right off of the shelf (that I know of anyway).  Chances are that will
never happen with all the different hardware configurations out there.  Add to
that, accounting usually wants the program out on the store shelves way before
the software is completely developed in order to get some kind of early return.

F1Filter

Since when did the testers decide about the desing of the game
(especially not the beta testers) ? The dynamics + other stuff in the
game is (should be) desinged before any coding is done. Testing is
playing the game and reporting errors. These are errors (bugs) that
crash the game, make objects dissapear, etc...

I really don't think there are any testers that have enough knowledge in
racing to tell programmers exactly what is wrong (how would they know if
the differential isn't simulated properly...)

About Papy, some months ago I saw on ther page an invitation to join
their beta testing programme.... ;)

Regards,
 Tadej Krevh

// The game is made in the desing phase of the game, everything else is
// just an implementation of that phase
// GPL Monaco 1.25.59

Well, as I will say..

One day they work in MonacoGP, the other day they are on Playmobil games for
little Kids.  That's Ubisoft.  They will never be able to launch a SERIOUS
hard-core racing simulator until they create their own "racing" division.
That's why Im mad at them.  They have great employees, great people.  But
the upper divisions of the company can't understand the need (IMHO) for a
racing division.  I will agree they have some good arcade racing titles.
It's probably just a company philosophy...

And as I said, the next day they may be working on a Kid entertainment (in
anser to Tadej), so playtesters working for Ubisoft must be prepared for any
kind of racing. Im not blaming them, but blaming it a little higher :)    I
know what is the playtester's job, I know this without a problem, and they
still have a little opinion,  even more sometimes depending if they become
Game developper...

Let me just say that the GPL Beta testing team and playtesting team can be
interractive with the programmers.  Almost all of them are simracers and
have past racing experience. It is not the case at Ubisoft.  And yes, I also
tried for the playtester position at Papyrus, but nothing happened.  I know
who is there, and let me tell you they all need to understand how a car
reacts on a road.  They don't need to understand how FPS shooter physics and
map level works.  It's a pure racing company.  It's different at Ubisoft,
since they need to be prepared for any kind of game.

Well this somehow globalize my idea of creating a racing division at
Ubisoft. They have plenty of racing titles (for me arcade or sim makes no
difference, since they could use a global game engine for the physics,
making arcade AND simulators better...).  Ubisoft NEEDS a new game engine
for the future.  The Pod one is starting to show it's weakeness (it was
already easy to see with F1RS, even more with MonacoGP), compared to other
racing companies.

All of this is IMHO, but I feel (hey Im a nice guy, remember) that for the
benefit of us, the simracers, them, the arcaders and them (2), Ubisoft  that
something like I said (a Racing division) could be VERY good.

Im not here to make serious politics (even if some say so), but this year
will be probably the best year in history for racing simulators.  98 was a
transition year, but this year we will see the increase of new game engines,
USB hardware, video graphic monopole probably, FFB wheels, etc...

Just a little problem with a Ubisoft employee I met here in Montreal. Let's
just say that my words were heard ;)

-= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/
-= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/
-= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-= May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Cheers!
John