rec.autos.simulators

by **Obiwa** » Sun, 09 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Remeber the VFX-1 VR helmet for the PC, from Forte?
As all the other VR-gear it wasn't a that big success,but
in the aftermarket a lot of game companies developed patches
in order to make their games with it,so now there is a rather
large collection of nice games and even sims that support it,
such as Eurofighter2000 and SU-27 Flanker.

However,advanced flight simulators have one feature
that makes it very unpractical to use VR-helmets
together with them,and that is that they require a lot of button
pushing/moving of hands,but when your head is enclosed in a
non-transparent VR-helmet it is very difficult to find your way
to the right spot with your fingers.

Racing simulators,OTOH, require a very limited amount
of button pushing,which would make them fit nicely
with a helmet.......Now,imagine GPL with a VR-helmet..........<drool>

Site for Forte Technologies and VFX-1 helmet:

http://www.racesimcentral.net/
--
Robert S?derberg

If replying by mail,remove the word INGENSPAM from the adress.

by **Alan Orto** » Sun, 09 Jan 2000 04:00:00

I agree, Obiwan.
Gpl or any Driving Sim in True 3d would be cool.
I have a set of Stereoscopic Eyescream 3d Glasses and they work ok but
They are kind of buggy in GPL though, I get a lot of ghosting plus they
are not very immersive. 3d Headset's such as the VFX-1 or the new VFX3d
( http://www.racesimcentral.net/) would be interesting to use in GPL. The VFX3d
HMD should work in GPL but there won't be any head tracking as gpl
wasn't programmed for it but you should still see in 3D.
Add a VFX3d Headset and an force feedback Motion Platform (which plugs
into the serial port) http://www.***mind.de/***space/ ,FF wheel and
a A3D Surround sound system with a 6 speaker setup and you could have
yourself a cool setup.
The Prices of HMD's have to come down before it will be accepted by the
general public. $2000 for a HMD is too much for the average buyer. Maybe
in a few more years. I wish they would lower the price to $500, they
would sell A LOT more of them and probably make more money in the long
run. The Technology in today's HMD'S are still in their infancy as well,
it can only get better. When they get Concave Lcd's with good
resolutions and colour then I think I will sell my Monitor and buy one.
It won't be long until Heavy Monitor's will be a thing of the past.
Either it will be HMD's and/or some kind of affordable Projection Device
which could project a 20" or even a 60" image in the light or Dark. I
also read something on holographic Technology which sounds really cool
but that's still many, many years away.
But yes, it would be cool to race gpl in a True 3D Environment. :)
Star Wars Technology is getting closer, Obiwan. ;)

> Remeber the VFX-1 VR helmet for the PC, from Forte?
> As all the other VR-gear it wasn't a that big success,but
> in the aftermarket a lot of game companies developed patches
> in order to make their games with it,so now there is a rather
> large collection of nice games and even sims that support it,
> such as Eurofighter2000 and SU-27 Flanker.

> However,advanced flight simulators have one feature
> that makes it very unpractical to use VR-helmets
> together with them,and that is that they require a lot of button
> pushing/moving of hands,but when your head is enclosed in a
> non-transparent VR-helmet it is very difficult to find your way
> to the right spot with your fingers.

> Racing simulators,OTOH, require a very limited amount
> of button pushing,which would make them fit nicely
> with a helmet.......Now,imagine GPL with a VR-helmet..........<drool>

> Site for Forte Technologies and VFX-1 helmet:

> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> --
> Robert S?derberg

> If replying by mail,remove the word INGENSPAM from the adress.

by **Andreas Kroel** » Sun, 09 Jan 2000 04:00:00

> I agree, Obiwan.
> Gpl or any Driving Sim in True 3d would be cool.
> I have a set of Stereoscopic Eyescream 3d Glasses and they work ok but
> They are kind of buggy in GPL though, I get a lot of ghosting plus they
> are not very immersive.

[snip]
I tend to disagree. The bugs are easy to avoid (don't press f10 during racing, dont flip your car in a way that
the TV static effect would kick in etc). The game works well up to 1024*768 (with my monitor), ghosting is
negligble (except at Kyalami with the dark surface). I recommend playing around with the refresh rate.
The 3D effect is very immersive.
The drawback is that the reduced horizontal resolution makes it more difficult to see things from afar, and the 3D
effect increases the perception of speed (RC2000, bumper view, becomes a real screamer), and thus makes the whole
thing more difficult to drive->slower laptimes almost guaranteed.

Regards,
Andreas
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Worueber man nicht reden kann, darueber muss man schweigen."(Wittgenstein)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

by **Obiwa** » Mon, 10 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Well,it wasn't really programmed for it,but when you press
the left/right view buttons it DOES scroll continuosly,and
now the camera formats for GPL has been found out
(At the GPL File Formats ..http://www.racesimcentral.net/).The format
permits camera to be but at any angle and elevation in the***pit,
so if you only could change that continously upon command....
A lot of other games have had patches developed for them afterwards
(including headtracking),so it wouldn't necessarily impossible to do it ,
if only Papyrus...(and Sierra!).....
Otherwise ,with all the information available now on the formats antd internals
of GPL,maybe somebody else could come up with something.....

Yes, the Rock 'n ride is very cool...I had almost forgotten about it
in the racing context.The FF cushion/chair from http://www.racesimcentral.net/ also
seems very promising.....maybe if you could combine these two products......

--
Robert S?derberg

If replying by mail,remove the word INGENSPAM from the adress.

by **Alan Orto** » Mon, 10 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Wow, this sounds very promising, Obiwan(Robert)
Maybe a third party could get the head tracking to work in GPL... I
wonder if Interactive Imaging Systems has a SDK for their Headset's, it
might help out for programing head tracking into GPL. If N4 is using the
GPL Engine then Papy might have thought about this and have already
included VR HMD Support, intelliVIBE Sound support, A3D and if were
lucky FF Wheel's and Chair support, Hopefully :))
Btw, Thanks for including the web site to VRF's Tactile Feedback System
because I just ended up buying one,hehe.:) I think the Tactile Feedback
System will fit in the Rock'N'Ride FF Chair. ;)
Hopefully Papyrus, MotorSim's, the West Brothers, Microprose, ect...
include all of these "VR Devices" to increase the Sensory Feedback in
their future sim's... With the increasing detail in the physics engine's
we are going to need it sooner or later to get the most out of the
sim's, plus it would be amazingly fun!
These are SIMULATION'S After all so let's treat them as such. ;)
I hope they are listening,
Helloooo, Game Designer's!!<G>

>now the camera formats for GPL has been found out
> (At the GPL File Formats ..http://www.racesimcentral.net/).The format
> permits camera to be but at any angle and elevation in the***pit,
> so if you only could change that continously upon command....
> A lot of other games have had patches developed for them afterwards
> (including headtracking),so it wouldn't necessarily impossible to do it ,
> if only Papyrus...(and Sierra!).....
> Yes, the Rock 'n ride is very cool...I had almost forgotten about it
> in the racing context.The FF cushion/chair from http://www.racesimcentral.net/ also
> seems very promising.....maybe if you could combine these two products......

> --
> Robert S?derberg

> If replying by mail,remove the word INGENSPAM from the adress.

by **Mark Stah** » Mon, 10 Jan 2000 04:00:00

anyone have a ballpark figure for how much one of these 'Rock n Ride' things
costs?

Yes, the Rock 'n ride is very cool...I had almost forgotten about it
in the racing context.The FF cushion/chair from http://www.racesimcentral.net/ also
seems very promising.....maybe if you could combine these two products......

by **Mauritz Lindqvis** » Mon, 10 Jan 2000 04:00:00

700$ is mentioned i this review at Combatsim.

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

--

/M Lindqvist

Spamguard: Remove .ajabaja in e-mail

by **Obiwa** » Tue, 11 Jan 2000 04:00:00

When I gave it some more thought,it might actually be possible to
make it work as it is.....we already got the left and right look buttons,
(which unfortunately are not a virtual***pit,only "turn head
a certain angle left,and then back upon release".....
and IF i remember correctly the helmet can be programmed
to map any head movement to any key(but this might be completely
false)....so it would be possible to set up very quickly with
existing equipment............anyway,even if there is no
user programmability,it would be VERY VERY easy and quick
for somebody at papyrus to set up...it would only require
a tiny patched that mapped head movement to the two buttons.....

I

Oh yes,they do,at least for the VFX1....the vfx3d SDK might be available soon,
according to their web page.However,I don't think we can expect the
game companies to incorporate support for the vfx3d in new products,
as it will be priced way above the massmarket,($1795),and they
probably still rmemeber the non-success of the last wave of VR gear
in 94-95.So,we have the old helmet,but this has unfortuantely
very bad resolution,so it might only be attractive to absolute
*** sim freaks (like me) who would do anything to enhace the experience,
and it wouldn?t go very well with the new multicolor high res
cames of the coming year.

Brag Brag Brag :-)))

mm,yes,but there is one problem to be resolved...the VRF thing
proveids force feedback in addition to the vibrations,and this
would have to be integrated/coordinated at a deeper level by the developers
,in order to avoid contradictory output
(pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease !)

Hear, Hear !

--
Robert S?derberg

If replying by mail,remove the word INGENSPAM from the adress.

by **Phil Bowe** » Sun, 23 Jan 2000 04:00:00

In my message entitled "Anyone here remember the Canopus Total 3D" I pointed
toward something similar. It had 3D LCD Stereoscopic Glasses and you could
play Descent II in real 3D with em. They'd be another awesome addition to
Sims, flight or driving.

PS. The lcd's in the glasses alternated very fast and synchronized with
every other frame on the screen to give you an incredible 3d view. Another
poster pretty accurately described it as "Scary, in a good way".

Phil

>Remeber the VFX-1 VR helmet for the PC, from Forte?
>As all the other VR-gear it wasn't a that big success,but
>in the aftermarket a lot of game companies developed patches
>in order to make their games with it,so now there is a rather
>large collection of nice games and even sims that support it,
>such as Eurofighter2000 and SU-27 Flanker.

>However,advanced flight simulators have one feature
>that makes it very unpractical to use VR-helmets
> together with them,and that is that they require a lot of button
>pushing/moving of hands,but when your head is enclosed in a
>non-transparent VR-helmet it is very difficult to find your way
>to the right spot with your fingers.

>Racing simulators,OTOH, require a very limited amount
>of button pushing,which would make them fit nicely
>with a helmet.......Now,imagine GPL with a VR-helmet..........<drool>

>Site for Forte Technologies and VFX-1 helmet:

>http://www.iisvr.com
>--
>Robert S?derberg

>If replying by mail,remove the word INGENSPAM from the adress.

by **Obiwa** » Mon, 24 Jan 2000 04:00:00

I have seen some of those stereoscopic glasses on trade shows and
in magazines.......I wonder if they would work with video/LCD
projectors on 10' screens.....................

--
Robert S?derberg

If replying by mail,remove the word INGENSPAM from the adress.

by **Phil Bowe** » Mon, 24 Jan 2000 04:00:00

I'm not sure. I've wanted to get a Mitsubshi projector for My Home Theater.
The LCD Ones that is. They're really a presentation gizmo but work great as
a LCD Front Projection TV. I Guess the Refresh rate is going to be a big
issue on that because the glasses flash lets say black and "Clear" to trick
your eyes and only allow you to see out of one at a time. Your monitor has
to get the image on screen and with No bleed really quick. Not a strong
point of LCD projectors/Monitors. 2 Different images are there for each
Eye. I'd be skeptical. I'd also want to have someone else show it to me
before I drop $2500 for one.

>I have seen some of those stereoscopic glasses on trade shows and
>in magazines.......I wonder if they would work with video/LCD
>projectors on 10' screens.....................

rec.autos.simulators

GPL & VR-helmet

GPL & VR-helmet

GPL & VR-helmet

GPL & VR-helmet

GPL & VR-helmet

GPL & VR-helmet

GPL & VR-helmet

GPL & VR-helmet

GPL & VR-helmet

GPL & VR-helmet

GPL & VR-helmet

GPL & VR-helmet