rec.autos.simulators

Car physics

Ruud van Ga

Car physics

by Ruud van Ga » Sun, 28 Oct 2001 00:35:41

On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 15:21:53 +0100, "Carol Bekker"


>I think you will find that currently Ruud isnt actually looking for people
>to take the code away and add to it, its still a personal project from Ruud
>but one that we can join in by creating assets for it in the way of cars and
>tracks. Its a learning process for Ruud as it is for the other chaps
>developing sims in here, and I think ras is a nice place for them to trade
>thoughts and ideas, without giving up the fun they are having in creating
>their own sims.

Yes, I think that about sums it up. Uwe has been and is a great help,
I must say. Hope to get that RacerRank up one day. :)
But the fact is, most physics/programmer people here create their sim
for fun, to find it all out. And indeed, I'm not too keen on having
people develop large components in my source code. It may not be good
for the longer term, in most cases, IMHO.

There's another set of people though, who don't *want* to create an
entire sim or do radical stuff like that, but do want to write
external programs, like converters (although ZModeler has DOF (Racer's
3D file format) support at the moment, so converting between NFS or
whatever is quite easy already), or neat setting dialogs for example.

And more importantly at the moment is track and car designers (mainly
tracks though I think). I've just added vertex colored capabilities to
the tracks (still some bugs to iron out though) so it can looks quite
good by now.
I'm also looking very much into getting the Ferrari 312 from GPL into
Racer (well, the physics data) together with a Salisbury differential
to try and get very close to a GPL car to see where my physics are
different from GPL. Problem here is rollcenters for example. I know
they're low for todays cars, but I don't know exactly about the cars
back then. Weight ratio is known, I know a bit how the diff angles
work (getting a resulting torque bias ratio, which should work ok
except for a 'magic' factor which still has to be applied in the end).

The programmers here want to take care of their own babies, but if
you're a modeler or like to tweak cars in every which way, than Racer
has a very easy entry path and is by now quite worth taking a look at,
even if I say so myself. :)

Ruud
PS vi rules! ;-)

Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim  : http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Pencil art    : http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Andy Laurenc

Car physics

by Andy Laurenc » Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:38:22

I'd love to have a go at creating some tracks.  Is there a how-to somewhere
so I can get started?  I've got a few ideas which may make for an
interesting track.

Andy
--
PC-Based Multimedia System
http://www.andylaurence.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pcbmms

Andre Warrin

Car physics

by Andre Warrin » Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:35:19

On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:38:22 -0000, "Andy Laurence"


>I'd love to have a go at creating some tracks.  Is there a how-to somewhere
>so I can get started?  I've got a few ideas which may make for an
>interesting track.

>Andy

All you need is here: http://home.online.no/~bi-knu/editing/
But beware.. track creating is a LOT of work.. I just read in the just
released Mt.Tremblant readme file that the guy worked on the track 17
months 2-3 hours a day..

Andre

Andy Laurenc

Car physics

by Andy Laurenc » Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:36:55

OMG!  That's a looonng time.  Check back in a couple of years....

Andy (off to see what's involved)
--
PC-Based Multimedia System
http://www.andylaurence.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pcbmms

Ruud van Ga

Car physics

by Ruud van Ga » Tue, 30 Oct 2001 21:47:38



>On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:38:22 -0000, "Andy Laurence"

>>I'd love to have a go at creating some tracks.  Is there a how-to somewhere
>>so I can get started?  I've got a few ideas which may make for an
>>interesting track.

>>Andy

>All you need is here: http://home.online.no/~bi-knu/editing/

That's GPL. :)
For Racer, check the documentation on the website; mainly the TrackEd
docs. For modeling, you can use Max, SoftImage, Maya, whatever. Some
people are also using Blender (which is free) or perhaps even ZModeler
is abused for this type of stuff.
In the end though, I'm currently supporting vertex colored tracks,
which require some functionality which mostly exists I think only in
the commercial 3D modelers. Still, it makes lighting 10x better.
The idea is very much based on SCGT's track format (as the first real
track for Racer was just a conversion); that format chops up the track
in parts, so you get for example 30 or so road objects in Racer.
You start out with a generic loft mostly though, and get the entire
track as one big extrusion. Splitting up is done later (and I'm
thinking of one day doing the splicing in software).
More help can be found on Racer's forum, which is at:
http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~hg/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=38

A simple track is easy to make though. But real art ofcourse takes
time, as with all really beautiful things.

Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim  : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/
Pencil art    : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

Andy Laurenc

Car physics

by Andy Laurenc » Tue, 30 Oct 2001 22:06:15

Cheers, I'll nip over there now to see what I can do.

I just fancy building a track which I can drive to start with.  Then it's
justa  matter of time to make it look nice.

Andy
--
PC-Based Multimedia System
http://www.andylaurence.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pcbmms

Ruud van Ga

Car physics

by Ruud van Ga » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 01:28:28

On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:06:15 -0000, "Andy Laurence"


>> More help can be found on Racer's forum, which is at:
>> http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~hg/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=38

>Cheers, I'll nip over there now to see what I can do.

Cool. :)

Yes, understanding the basics is the main thing to start out with
something that you don't have to throw away later. Loft is your
friend...

Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim  : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/
Pencil art    : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

Andy Laurenc

Car physics

by Andy Laurenc » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 01:45:47

I don't suppose there is a how-to for this sort of thing (tracks or cars)?
I can't seem to find anything more than 3DSmax would be a good tool.  I
suppose the first thing to do would be to create a car/track in 3DS max and
ask in the forum where to go from there.

Andy
--
PC-Based Multimedia System
http://www.andylaurence.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pcbmms

Ruud van Ga

Car physics

by Ruud van Ga » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 03:26:20

On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:45:47 -0000, "Andy Laurence"


>> >> More help can be found on Racer's forum, which is at:
>> >> http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~hg/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=38

>> >Cheers, I'll nip over there now to see what I can do.

>> Cool. :)

>> >> A simple track is easy to make though. But real art ofcourse takes
>> >> time, as with all really beautiful things.

>> >I just fancy building a track which I can drive to start with.  Then it's
>> >justa  matter of time to make it look nice.

>> Yes, understanding the basics is the main thing to start out with
>> something that you don't have to throw away later. Loft is your
>> friend...

>I don't suppose there is a how-to for this sort of thing (tracks or cars)?

It's really just like regular modeling (although things may change for
scenery as I intend to be able to repeat objects (trees are a good
example) from inside TrackEd, instead of directly from your modeler
(like SCGT does for example).

If you have Max, than that's a great start.  Try lofting an entire
looped track. Export that as ASE and try to import it into Modeler.
You can also batch import ASE files from TrackEd directly.
Just keep your scenery completely in Max, don't mix images for
textures that are functionally different (as surface types (road,
sand, ice) are detected based on texture filename).

For efficiency, large track must be split so cubes of scenery can be
culled away in big chunks if not visible. This is done with Max's
detach function. Load Carrera in TrackEd, select Object Properties
(F4) and click around; you'll see the objects.
Other than that; if it looks ok in Max than it's ok to export into
Racer. I have no real splitting experience myself. The first custom
track was also a track with just 5 objects; trees, road, rocks etc.
Not too efficient but it actually ran pretty well even. :)
Just always keep your track unsplit on disk somewhere in case you want
to reloft.

And ofcourse asking on the forum always helps yes. :)

Good luck,

Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim  : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/
Pencil art    : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

Andy Laurenc

Car physics

by Andy Laurenc » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 19:07:11

Cheers for the in-depth response.  I'll jump on it when I have time.

;-)

Andy
--
PC-Based Multimedia System
http://www.andylaurence.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pcbmms


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