Ok. Now I'm kinda confused. If I set my diff at 30/30, I pretty much have
to floor the gas to get the car to move off pit lane, whereas with diff
settings of 85/30 I can ease into the gas and the car starts to roll easily.
Help me Obi Wan, your my only hope :)
Kenny L.
the 5th Doctor
size 3 hat, size 13 shoe
Gee, that NEVER happens. :-) But with an 85 coast-side angle, it's probably
almost impossible to avoid there.(unless you start braking in Ascari) That
pretty much mirrors what I've settled on; for really heavy straightline
braking, go to low coast angles and more clutches.
Yep. I've found that using 45 or 60 on the coast side (instead of 30) makes it
easier to adjust my line with slight changes in throttle position. But
that.
Indeed! My current interest is clutches. I'm convinced that less is more, and
only tracks with very heavy braking zones need more than two, at least for the
Lotus. I only use one at Brands and Monaco, and wish I could get by with it at
more tracks. But getting the car hauled down from speed with one clutch
is......interesting.
The journey continues.
Cheers,
Steve B.
remove "edy" from address for email
> At the start of the race when I apply the gas (no matter how easy),the
> car pulls ***ly to the left. I always get left behind. Once I'm
> going,the steering is as it should be. This problem was never this bad until
> I installed the patch and started using a MSFF wheel rather than my T2. Slow
> corners that require 1st or 2nd gear usually wind up with *** oversteer
> when I apply the power.
Apparently, at speeds below 60mph, the steering ratio is set somewhere
between 7:1 and the ratio you specified in the setup (proportionate to
speed), so when you start off the steering will be very twitchy indeed
(ie. at 7:1).
This can be turned off in 1.1 using disable_steer_ratio (or something
like that) in the core.ini, so it may be worth trying this.
I think it's explained on the vroc site under Alison Hine's pages
somewhere.
>> 2. A higher number means less lock-up of the diff, a lower number more
>> lock-up. Sorry, 5thDoc, but you have to re-evaluate your info. Smith
>> is right.
>Ok. Now I'm kinda confused. If I set my diff at 30/30, I pretty much have
>to floor the gas to get the car to move off pit lane, whereas with diff
>settings of 85/30 I can ease into the gas and the car starts to roll easily.
>Help me Obi Wan, your my only hope :)
I have no idea what could cause this behavior. What conclusions do you
draw from your observation?
--
Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.
AUTHOR: Carroll Smith (note the spelling: two 'r's, two 'l's)
TITLE: Drive to Win
ISBN: 0965160009
Amazon has it in stock. I don't want to appear ungrateful, but I
wasn't overly impressed by the two-page excerpt that I read. First of
all, the text did not manage to convey the info to me on first
reading. And not on second or third reading either. This is pretty
technical stuff, so it's probably not Smith's fault, but I can imagine
a more accessible way of explaining a limited slip diff to amateurs
like me.
Secondly, the two pages contain some typos ("toque" instead of
"torque", "Powr" instead of "Power" - although this might be
intentional in a proper name ("Hewland Powr Flow".) Yet, when there is
one obvious typo, how can one be sure that this isn't one either?) I'm
usually pretty tolerant of typos, but in a book, they are more often
than not a sign of sloppy production
Smith's strong point seems to be his experience in racing. If you're
looking for "How do I use this?" info, you've come to the right place.
If your approach is more in the vein of "How does this work?", there
might be better books. What made me understand the principle wasn't
Smith's text but a small diagram on one of the pages.
But then again, I only read two pages, so I might not be doing him
justice.
--
Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.
The chapter in the book is some 15 pages long. Judging by your comments
about the typos, I presume that the extract you read was from some way into
the chapter and therefore didn't include the section on "basics". If so,
that may explain the difficulty you had.
I'm usually quite sensitive to typos, but having read the book several
times I must admit that I missed both of those until I just searched for
them <g>. On that basis there might be plenty more but I certainly didn't
get the overall impression that the production is sloppy. Maybe I was just
too engrossed with the content to bother about the typos though <g>
That's a fair judgement IMO.
Cheers,
Richard
> >> 2. A higher number means less lock-up of the diff, a lower number more
> >> lock-up. Sorry, 5thDoc, but you have to re-evaluate your info. Smith
> >> is right.
> >Ok. Now I'm kinda confused. If I set my diff at 30/30, I pretty much
have
> >to floor the gas to get the car to move off pit lane, whereas with diff
> >settings of 85/30 I can ease into the gas and the car starts to roll
easily.
> >Help me Obi Wan, your my only hope :)
> I tried to duplicate this behavior, but my findings are inconclusive.
> It seemed indeed as if the car needed a tiny bit more throttle to
> start rolling with 30/30. But without telemetry data, the difference
> is too subtle for me to be sure.
> I have no idea what could cause this behavior. What conclusions do you
> draw from your observation?
> --
> Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.
cancellation
> > 1- Almost every setup I've ever seen uses a ramp angle of 85/30. From
your
> > explanation,I take this to mean that the rear locks up slower when
> applying
> > gas as well as locking up slowly when getting off the gas and on the
> brakes.
> > Or would one be better off using a lower power number?
> Not exactly. With a power side value of 85 (the highest available) the
diff
> will begin to lockup sooner as you apply throttle. The higher the value,
> the sooner the lockup.
--
Ian Parker
UKGPL League
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > At the start of the race when I apply the gas (no matter how
easy),the
> > car pulls ***ly to the left. I always get left behind. Once I'm
> > going,the steering is as it should be. This problem was never this bad
until
> > I installed the patch and started using a MSFF wheel rather than my T2.
Slow
> > corners that require 1st or 2nd gear usually wind up with ***
oversteer
> > when I apply the power.
> I wonder if this is due to the slow-speed variable steering ratio that
> Papy put in to allow easier negotiation of slow-speed turns?
> Apparently, at speeds below 60mph, the steering ratio is set somewhere
> between 7:1 and the ratio you specified in the setup (proportionate to
> speed), so when you start off the steering will be very twitchy indeed
> (ie. at 7:1).
> This can be turned off in 1.1 using disable_steer_ratio (or something
> like that) in the core.ini, so it may be worth trying this.
> I think it's explained on the vroc site under Alison Hine's pages
> somewhere.
Mark
London UK
When testing with the power side, I couldn't find much use for it at
most tracks. It is extremely difficult to apply power and keep the car
straight (however, this can be compensated by adding more clutches).
Since most tracks were I am concerned with apply alot of power it is on
the straights (or while straightening the car coming out of a turn), I
did't find much advantage to lowering the power side ramp angle. So far
the one track where I have found it can be used is Monaco, where most of
the straights aren't straight at all. I have been successful at using a
60/60 setting at Monaco (however only after considerable tests with
different spring rates and ARB than normally used).
The key is not just changing the ramp angles and expecting to find
favorable results. This setting drastically alters the way the car
handles and must be matched with a different philosophy with spring
rate, ARB and camber settings along with clutches and sometimes even
tire pressure (what did I leave out?).
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Joel Willstien
Bump and rebound dampers. :) Anything you change in your setup
influences everything else. Trying to figure this out often induces
pain between my ears. But it's fun if you get it working. :)
I experimented a bit with the ramp settings in Monza (still the only
track I'm consistent enough on to properly evaluate setup changes) and
found that 60/30 works better for me on that track than the previous
default of 85/30. Especially in Curva Grande it is easier to keep the
car away from the armco. In Ascari, the 85 power ramp angle allows
some wheelspin of the inside wheel with my setups. The 60 angle cures
this.
OTOH, I need the 30 coast side angle to keep the car straight when
braking for Parabolica. 60 also works, but the car becomes more
nervous - too nervous for longer races.
My main problem with setups is not to create one that's good to drive.
It is to create one that's good to drive *and* fast. I tend to build
cars that are nice but slow...
--
Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.
> >The key is not just changing the ramp angles and expecting to find
> >favorable results. This setting drastically alters the way the car
> >handles and must be matched with a different philosophy with spring
> >rate, ARB and camber settings along with clutches and sometimes even
> >tire pressure (what did I leave out?).
> Bump and rebound dampers. :) Anything you change in your setup
> influences everything else. Trying to figure this out often induces
> pain between my ears. But it's fun if you get it working. :)
> I experimented a bit with the ramp settings in Monza (still the only
> track I'm consistent enough on to properly evaluate setup changes) and
> found that 60/30 works better for me on that track than the previous
> default of 85/30. Especially in Curva Grande it is easier to keep the
> car away from the armco. In Ascari, the 85 power ramp angle allows
> some wheelspin of the inside wheel with my setups. The 60 angle cures
> this.
> OTOH, I need the 30 coast side angle to keep the car straight when
> braking for Parabolica. 60 also works, but the car becomes more
> nervous - too nervous for longer races.
> My main problem with setups is not to create one that's good to drive.
> It is to create one that's good to drive *and* fast. I tend to build
> cars that are nice but slow...
> --
> Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.
cancellation
