rec.autos.simulators

Racer Pacejka Settings

Pat Dotso

Racer Pacejka Settings

by Pat Dotso » Thu, 27 Dec 2001 15:18:30

The graphs for the lat and long forces look out of whack.
The '67 Ferrari Pacejka settings are especially heinous!
The forces generated by the tires can't possibly fall of
by 50%, can they?

I never had any complaint with Racer as far as how it
handles within the limits of traction.  It has always
felt like once you pass the limit, you are suddenly on
ice.  Sort of like GPL on steriods.  The Pacejka graphs
explain exactly why it felt like that.

I spent a few minutes modifying the settings so that the
lat and long forces don't drop off as dramatically, and
the resulting handling was much more predictable, more
as expected.

Are the settings for the default cars supposed to be
like they are?  It's much easier to drive with my
settings, but I didn't increase maximum grip, just
changed the grip at higher slip angles to what are
I think more realistic levels.

I'll forward my modified car.ini file to anyone
interested.  I'd like to hear Ruud's comments.

--
Pat Dotson

Ruud van Ga

Racer Pacejka Settings

by Ruud van Ga » Sun, 30 Dec 2001 05:37:17

On Wed, 26 Dec 2001 01:18:30 -0500, Pat Dotson


>The graphs for the lat and long forces look out of whack.
>The '67 Ferrari Pacejka settings are especially heinous!
>The forces generated by the tires can't possibly fall of
>by 50%, can they?

>I never had any complaint with Racer as far as how it
>handles within the limits of traction.  It has always
>felt like once you pass the limit, you are suddenly on
>ice.  Sort of like GPL on steriods.  The Pacejka graphs
>explain exactly why it felt like that.

>I spent a few minutes modifying the settings so that the
>lat and long forces don't drop off as dramatically, and
>the resulting handling was much more predictable, more
>as expected.

>Are the settings for the default cars supposed to be
>like they are?

No, they do seem halfly fictional, although they're derived from sets
in Giancarlo Genta's book 'Motor Vehicle Dynamics - Modeling and
Simulation'. A Ferrari tire set is used for the Ferrari 312, but it
does seem to miss some coefficients, and the a0 variable makes the
curve too sharp.

Pacejka values are hard to get, but I hope that the editor will allow
people to tweak it so it is usable. A tutorial must still be made to
explain what the coefficients do though.

Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim  : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/
Pencil art    : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

Pat Dotso

Racer Pacejka Settings

by Pat Dotso » Sun, 30 Dec 2001 10:15:12

I thought so.  Adjusting the a0 and b0 paramaters
so that the forces don't drop off so dramatically
makes a big difference.  Tuning the aligning moment
has a big affect too.  How are FF effects related
to the aligning moment, or are they related at all?

With my settings, the car feels as realistic as
any sim out there I've tried.  The biggest difference
is the ability to counter steer through turns.
With my tuned Pacejka settings, RACER will counter
steer through an entire turn as well as any Ratbag
sim! :)  One other person has tried these new
settings and called it a "massive improvement" :)

If anyone else wants to try it, let me know.  It's
just a new car.ini file for the EVO6.

--
Pat Dotson


> On Wed, 26 Dec 2001 01:18:30 -0500, Pat Dotson

> >The graphs for the lat and long forces look out of whack.
> >The '67 Ferrari Pacejka settings are especially heinous!
> >The forces generated by the tires can't possibly fall of
> >by 50%, can they?

> >I never had any complaint with Racer as far as how it
> >handles within the limits of traction.  It has always
> >felt like once you pass the limit, you are suddenly on
> >ice.  Sort of like GPL on steriods.  The Pacejka graphs
> >explain exactly why it felt like that.

> >I spent a few minutes modifying the settings so that the
> >lat and long forces don't drop off as dramatically, and
> >the resulting handling was much more predictable, more
> >as expected.

> >Are the settings for the default cars supposed to be
> >like they are?

> No, they do seem halfly fictional, although they're derived from sets
> in Giancarlo Genta's book 'Motor Vehicle Dynamics - Modeling and
> Simulation'. A Ferrari tire set is used for the Ferrari 312, but it
> does seem to miss some coefficients, and the a0 variable makes the
> curve too sharp.

> Pacejka values are hard to get, but I hope that the editor will allow
> people to tweak it so it is usable. A tutorial must still be made to
> explain what the coefficients do though.

Ruud van Ga

Racer Pacejka Settings

by Ruud van Ga » Fri, 04 Jan 2002 03:10:00

On Fri, 28 Dec 2001 20:15:12 -0500, Pat Dotson


>I thought so.  Adjusting the a0 and b0 paramaters
>so that the forces don't drop off so dramatically
>makes a big difference.  Tuning the aligning moment
>has a big affect too.  How are FF effects related
>to the aligning moment, or are they related at all?

They *are* the FF. :)
The sum of the steering wheels' aligning moments is what is used to
set the FF strength. In your control set file you can specify at what
aligning moment value you get the maximum FF.

Ehm, is that good? ;-) Haven't driven any Ratbag sim for ages.

Could you mail me the file?

Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim  : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/
Pencil art    : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

Pat Dotso

Racer Pacejka Settings

by Pat Dotso » Fri, 04 Jan 2002 09:00:14



> >With my settings, the car feels as realistic as
> >any sim out there I've tried.  The biggest difference
> >is the ability to counter steer through turns.
> >With my tuned Pacejka settings, RACER will counter
> >steer through an entire turn as well as any Ratbag
> >sim! :)

> Ehm, is that good? ;-) Haven't driven any Ratbag sim for ages.

Since we know there are no driving aids activated, and
since controlled counter-steering in a real car is not
terribly difficult, then I think it's a very good thing
for RACER to be able to simulate.  Like I said, I don't
think any other sim has been able to capture that feeling,
but RACER somehow manages to.
--
Pat Dotson
Ruud van Ga

Racer Pacejka Settings

by Ruud van Ga » Sat, 05 Jan 2002 00:04:48

On Wed, 02 Jan 2002 19:00:14 -0500, Pat Dotson




>> >With my settings, the car feels as realistic as
>> >any sim out there I've tried.  The biggest difference
>> >is the ability to counter steer through turns.
>> >With my tuned Pacejka settings, RACER will counter
>> >steer through an entire turn as well as any Ratbag
>> >sim! :)

>> Ehm, is that good? ;-) Haven't driven any Ratbag sim for ages.

>Since we know there are no driving aids activated, and
>since controlled counter-steering in a real car is not
>terribly difficult, then I think it's a very good thing
>for RACER to be able to simulate.  Like I said, I don't
>think any other sim has been able to capture that feeling,
>but RACER somehow manages to.

I'll print that out and hang it on the wall for inspiration. ;-)

Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim  : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/
Pencil art    : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/


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