Amazing stuff, thanks for sharing it. It's so counterintuitive, I'd
not have thought of it. I will try it.
Thanks for nobody roasting me for being a blathering idiot in this
thread :) I misunderstood the original point. I must have good karma
this week.
-=hambone
Sent via Deja.com http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Before you buy.
Yet another way, and far better in my opinion, is to anticipate the rears
and get the weight moving that way by judiciously applying gas. If there is
enough room to save it by locking all four corners, there's probably room
enough to balance the car and unwind some lock. Done right -- as though
there were a right way to phuck up -- you end up in the grass on the
outside, still rolling forward, under control. This is to say that you drive
it as you would have if you didn't overcook it; the difference is not asking
the car to do what it simply can't do, and instead settle for second best:
under control, just a little outside the pavement.
At any rate, neither way is the fast way around the track. Just promise
yourself to not overcook there again.
Up until things pass the 90o mark, you're still rolling forward and normal
thinking still applies. Once past 90o, things are going in reverse. I think
this is why steering into the spin works. If you manage to get the fronts
(now the steerable rears) rolling again, they're going the right way to
bring the nose back the way it came. By relaxing the brakes a little, the
rears (in front now) can unlock and allow the nose to come back around, just
like a Rockford turn. I was dubious at first when I heard this. Seeing is
believing, so it's time now for everyone to try this at the first Lesmo
(especially Eldred, who should take a break from hotlapping the 'Ring).
Michael.
SLG
>Fascinating! I'll have to give it a try during one of my numerous
>opportunities... <g>
>Regards,
>Brett C. Cammack
>That's Racing! Motorsports
>Pompano Beach, FL
It loses very little time and turns a somewhat embarrasing spin into
an extremely cool looking piece of driving. I have some replays of
this I could post in the binaries group if anyone wants to see an
example.
Cheers!
John
>Visualize for a moment each tire working in a corner. Tires generate
>their grip via hysterisis of the *** molecules when the contact
>patch distorts (to a point) when the tire is scrubbing across the
>pavement at a slight angle (the slip angle).
>A neutral drift occurs when the slip angles of all four tires sustain
>a relatively constant ratio of slip angles between one another.
>(from motoring sedately through a corner with no fanfare to drifting
>gracefully in an arc wider than the corner's radius until you come to
>rest against the Armco.)
>If the slip angles of the front wheels increase faster than the rear
>wheels the vehicle experiences understeer, or "push".
>If the slip angles of the rear wheels increase faster than the front
>wheels the vehicle experiences oversteer, or is "loose".
>If the car is understeering, you might attempt to neutralize this by
>popping the throttle to take away some of the available traction for
>cornering so that the slip angle of the rear tires increases, thereby
>balancing the slip angles fore and aft.
>If the car is oversteering, you might feed in some opposite lock to
>reduce the cornering load on the rear tires to match the available
>grip by widening the line a bit.
>If the oversteer is too great (the difference in fore/aft slip angles
>is increasing too rapidly) and the car cannot be balanced by reducing
>the cornering load on the rear tires or otherwise increasing their
>grip, then you can bring the fore/aft slip angles back into balance by
>radically increasing the slip angle of the front tires to the point
>that they have the same deficit of grip as the fronts, thereby
>arresting the yaw that is occurring. (the developing spin)
>The other way to arrest too high a yaw rate is to just bury the brake
>pedal and lock both ends so that they have the same traction
>available.
>This has to be done early enough in the developing spin that the yaw
>rate has not escalated to a level that the inertia of the mass of the
>vehicle will continue the yaw so far that you either come to a stop
>facing completely the wrong way or the car continues to rotate a
>couple times until all of the stored energy of the yaw has been
>dissappated.
>That's the rub as we all tend to admit defeat too late when we lose
>it, thinking "I can save it!" and flailing away at the controls past
>the point of a graceful resolution. As the old song goes, "You've got
>to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em." <g>
>Regards,
>Brett C. Cammack
>That's Racing! Motorsports
>Pompano Beach, FL
I know its not the correct technical vernacular, but hopefully that's it
in a nutshell. :)
--
Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)
No person's opinions can be said to be
more correct than another's, because each is
the sole judge of his or her own experience.
One of these days I'll get my hands on a real Lotus 49 and try it out...
Tony Whitley
Regards,
Brett C. Cammack
That's Racing! Motorsports
Pompano Beach, FL
>>It's a very useful spin technique for saving one's bacon in a race and
>>not losing too may spots because of the error. I sure am glad someone
>>discovered it and were thoughtful enough to pass it along...
>It's also possible to recognise when the fledgling spin is too far
>gone to recover - then boot the throttle and hold the steering or even
>steer out of the skid, thus accelerating the spin. With practice you
>can do a complete 360, engage first while spinning and continue on
>without ever leaving the track or coming to a stop.
>It loses very little time and turns a somewhat embarrasing spin into
>an extremely cool looking piece of driving. I have some replays of
>this I could post in the binaries group if anyone wants to see an
>example.
Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +85.99
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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I'm a believer and I now use this technique on *all* my corners! :-)
> >I am happy to inform you that steering into a spin to break it works
> >well.
> It absolutely works, someone sent me a replay showing how to do it,
> and after a few tries I got the hang of it.
> But I can only do it when I focus on it, it feels so unnatural, in the
> heat of the action I allways countersteer... and lose it :)
> Andre
This technique actually DOES work on real cars. However.....
In a real car what generally happens is this, as you steer to the inside of
the spin, the spin is arrested, but the car is slowing dramaticly. As the
car reachs near the 90 degree mark the car has slowed enough for the tires
to regain grip. The car now shoots straight off the road toward the inside
of the turn.
For whatever reason this dosn't happen as dramaticly in GPL as in a real
car.
Yep, managed it myself at Monaco over the brow of the hill and into the
left hander at Masanet. The car started to drift wide and I could feel
the back end coming round as I applied opposite lock to no avail. Then
like yourself I had that epiphany moment after all this chat and turned
back into the corner. A result? You bet your ass it was. Suddenly,
instead of oversteer, the car just drifted nicely giving me time to get
things back under control. In fact it almost felt like I'd hardly
ballsed the corner up at all. :)
>> On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:34:55 GMT, Andrew Turner
>> >I am happy to inform you that steering into a spin to break it works
>> >well.
>> It absolutely works, someone sent me a replay showing how to do it,
>> and after a few tries I got the hang of it.
>> But I can only do it when I focus on it, it feels so unnatural, in the
>> heat of the action I allways countersteer... and lose it :)
>> Andre
No person's opinions can be said to be
more correct than another's, because each is
the sole judge of his or her own experience.
>Michael.
Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +70.45
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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