rec.autos.simulators

by **Don Scurlo** » Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:00:00

>> Why reinvent the wheel? You don't have to go any futher than the game
>itself
>> for a ranking system that gives equal weight to all tracks, and rewards
>> consistency as well as speed. It's called a "full season's championship".
>Ahh, but that only lets you see how well you compare to the AI, not the
>"legends" that you see driving the blistering laps elsewhere. Surely the
>current way of ranking on GPLRank is doing the same (reinventing the wheel)
>e.g. rather than races it is simply qualifying sessions. I'm not trying to
>say that one way is right or wrong, or even that one is better than the
>other. They are merely different ways of testing driving skill.

GPLRank currently lets you compare yourself to aprox 500 other gpl drivers,
many of them "legends". And these same people are high up on Schubi's hotlap
page, and are high up in league racing standings. The same fast people will be
at the top of any valid method of comparison.
We could come up with a 100 different ways of quantifying a gpl drivers skill,
and they could all be valid. The scale GPLRank uses is only one, and therefore
can't be totally comprehensive. The best gauge by far, is performance in a
season of league racing, as racing is what gpl is really about.

FWIW I

Sorry about that. I suppose it could be made clearer up front.

--
Don Scurlock
Vancouver,B.C.
GPLRank -1.90

Come see how you rate, at the GPLRank site
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Kevin Gavit** » Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:00:00

And just remember that it's just as hard for everyone else to improve at the
Ring, or Monza, as it is for you.

It may appear disproportionate on the surface, but that diproportion is
spread proportionately.

In other words, it all comes out in the wash.

I'll bet that if you ranked everyone at JUST the 'ring, and every track BUT
the ring, thet rankings would look very similar.

You don't think Huttu ranks higher than us just because of his 'ring time,
do you?

by **Mark Robert** » Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:00:00

> >Ahh, but that only lets you see how well you compare to the AI, not the
> >"legends" that you see driving the blistering laps elsewhere. Surely the
> >current way of ranking on GPLRank is doing the same (reinventing the
wheel)
> >e.g. rather than races it is simply qualifying sessions. I'm not trying
to
> >say that one way is right or wrong, or even that one is better than the
> >other. They are merely different ways of testing driving skill.

> GPLRank currently lets you compare yourself to aprox 500 other gpl
drivers,
> many of them "legends". And these same people are high up on Schubi's
hotlap
> page, and are high up in league racing standings. The same fast people
will be
> at the top of any valid method of comparison.

I agree with you. I was arguing from the wrong stand point. The cream will
eventually rise to the top, but you would probably see larger variations
between the slower guys. For example (and please don't laugh at my lap
times, I haven't had the game long) my best at the Glen is 67.65s. I have
not driven another lap within three tenths of that and therefore it isn't an
accurate representation of my skill. However, I can turn 68.5s laps until
the cows (or rabbits) come home and this is much more representative of my
pace.

So we _are_ both arguing the same point then :-)

Well, it was supposed to be a compliment. A bit like "very good explanation
of something that I didn't get before". I'm guessing I really ought to shut
up until I've created an account and had more of a look aound the site.
Unfortunately I don't have the time to put in reasonable laps at all
circuits and actually get myself a handicap :-( It probably is much more fun
when you are actually competing!

--
Regards,
Mark.
--
"Why do I get the feeling that someday I'll be describing this to a
psychiatrist?" - Lisa Simpson.
Remove no.junk.please when replying.
--

by **Uncle Feste** » Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:00:00

> You don't think Huttu ranks higher than us just because of his 'ring time,
> do you?

Yeah, after Don Scurlock's explanation I think things are best left as
they are. However, The Ring *does* account for almost half of Huttu's
lead over Andreas Wilke! :-)

--
Chuck Kandler
GPL F1 Handicap of +210.00 as of 6/15
GPL F3 Handicap of +443.38 as of 6/19
K&S Racing
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195

by **David Butte** » Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:00:00

>>I agree. I have no wish whatever to see the Ring taken out entirely
>>- I'd always want all 11 tracks in there (please don't add any of
>>the extra ones as not everyone has them). What I was querying was
>>whether one track should have such a massive effect - I think I
>>could probably knock 10 seconds off my Ring time in one solid
>>weekend, whereas to knock a *total* of 10 seconds off the other 10
>>tracks would take weeks.

>>But I accept the arguments about how the Ring is worthy of its
>>disproportinate effect, and on balance, I think GPLRank should
>>probably be kept as it is.

>The Ring does have a massive effect, because it's a massive track.
>We could take the Ring, and chop it up into six "normal" tracks, with
>six different names, that had aprox 1:30 laps times. Then no one
>would complain about the Ring. And what effect would that have on
>your GPLRank number? ZERO. Because the scale that GPLRank uses is
>about how fast you can cover the SUM TOTAL distance of ALL the
>tracks: 48.454 miles. You can look at it as one long track, or 20
>short ones. It would still be about how fast you could drive that
>48.454 mile distance.

Yes. As I said above, I think on balance the current arrangement is the
best one. I still have reservations about one track being worth (for
most people) more than the other 10 put together - if you won those 10
and DNF'd at the Ring, you'd still be Champion - but they're overridden
by the simplicity, clarity and e***ment of the current method.

Now, I'm getting close to the 50 (plus 50, that is!) handicap mark, so
just another 2.5 seconds needed. Has to be the Ring...
--
David.
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really."
(Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

by **Don Scurlo** » Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:00:00

It's typical of everybody Mark, more so early on. You get a PB, then you can't
touch it for the longest time, then your matching it three times in a session,
and so it goes.

I knew you were in basic agreement with me, I just like to argue ;-)

--
Don Scurlock
Vancouver,B.C.
GPLRank -1.90

Come see how you rate, at the GPLRank site
http://newgplrank.schuerkamp.de/

by **Coli** » Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:00:00

I agree 100%
Every track should be given equal emphasis and the only fair way to do this
is with the percentage scheme.
The Ring, while being a fantastic track, is just too long for those of us
who cannot spend 5 hours a night learning it!!!
I have limited time to play GPL and I see no sense in busting my balls at
all the other tracks when one spin alone at the ring would negate one month
of slogging away at ALL the other tracks put together!!! If I wanted a good
GPLRank all I would do is race at the ring. There's no point even bothering
with the other tracks till your time at the ring is great. This is not the
point of the excercise, but unfortunately it is the reality of GPLRank as it
is today.
...Colin

by **Mark Robert** » Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:00:00

I guess I'll just have to find more time to practice then...

So do I and I'm going to have the last word ;-)

--
Regards,
Mark.
--
"Why do I get the feeling that someday I'll be describing this to a
psychiatrist?" - Lisa Simpson.
Remove no.junk.please when replying.
--

by J » Wed, 21 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Sorry, no new idea.
But you can even top this.
After 48 miles the same tracks again, but reverse :-)

Jens

---------------------------------------------

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JensSchumi homepage at http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/
Racing simulation, esp. GPL
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Classic cars, esp. Morris Minor
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by **Andrew MacPhers** » Wed, 21 Jun 2000 04:00:00

No, that's just sick! :-)

by **Don Scurlo** » Wed, 21 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Viper Racing had this option and it definitely added life to the game.
I sure wouldn't want to see it in gpl though, as I haven't learned a
fraction of the converted tracks, and the game already takes up to much
of my time.

--
Don Scurlock
Vancouver,B.C.
GPLRank -1.90

Come see how you rate, at the GPLRank site
http://newgplrank.schuerkamp.de/

by **Uncle Feste** » Wed, 21 Jun 2000 04:00:00

> After 48 miles the same tracks again, but reverse :-)

The 'Ring in reverse?!?! That's not *even* funny. May a Lotus run over
your toes! <g>

--
Chuck Kandler
GPL F1 Handicap of +210.00 as of 6/15
GPL F3 Handicap of +443.38 as of 6/19
K&S Racing
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195

by **Phil Le** » Thu, 22 Jun 2000 04:00:00

> > After 48 miles the same tracks again, but reverse :-)

> The 'Ring in reverse?!?! That's not *even* funny. May a Lotus run over
> your toes! <g>

Imagine Flugplatz backwards. You'd certainly get some flight time there.
You may even make it over the bridge if you get it right. Now there's a
challenge.....

Cheers

Phil

--
GPL Rank: +66.44 secs

http://www.youpies.co.uk

by J » Thu, 22 Jun 2000 04:00:00

English - not my native language.
Of course I meant: the whole 48 miles again, but the other way around - wrong
direction - from the finish to the start - ...

Reverse could be fun too ;-)

Jens

>Sorry, no new idea.
>But you can even top this.
>After 48 miles the same tracks again, but reverse :-)

>Jens

---------------------------------------------

Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

JensSchumi homepage at http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/
Racing simulation, esp. GPL
Logitech Wingman FF optimization
Classic cars, esp. Morris Minor
Radio controlled airplanes

by **Eldre** » Thu, 22 Jun 2000 04:00:00

>I agree with you. I was arguing from the wrong stand point. The cream will
>eventually rise to the top, but you would probably see larger variations
>between the slower guys. For example (and please don't laugh at my lap
>times, I haven't had the game long) my best at the Glen is 67.65s. I have
>not driven another lap within three tenths of that and therefore it isn't an
>accurate representation of my skill. However, I can turn 68.5s laps until
>the cows (or rabbits) come home and this is much more representative of my
>pace.

*I* wouldn't laugh at your times, anyway. I've had the game for almost two
years, and I'm only about .5 sec faster...

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. 1:35.98 minutes-GPLRank:378 as of 6/18/00

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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rec.autos.simulators

GPLRank - Ring given too much emphasis?

GPLRank - Ring given too much emphasis?

GPLRank - Ring given too much emphasis?

GPLRank - Ring given too much emphasis?

GPLRank - Ring given too much emphasis?

GPLRank - Ring given too much emphasis?

GPLRank - Ring given too much emphasis?

GPLRank - Ring given too much emphasis?

GPLRank - Ring given too much emphasis?

GPLRank - Ring given too much emphasis?

GPLRank - Ring given too much emphasis?

GPLRank - Ring given too much emphasis?

GPLRank - Ring given too much emphasis?

GPLRank - Ring given too much emphasis?

GPLRank - Ring given too much emphasis?

GPLRank - Ring given too much emphasis?