rec.autos.simulators

: I would imagine he would have about as much trouble as the last great
: English driver that came over to CART.  Remember him, Nigel Mansell,
: first year I believe he was UNDEFEATED on ovals.

But look what driving Indycars did to him.  He couldn't even fit into an
F1 car afterwards, let alone drive one.

For the humor-impaired -- It's a Joke, son, it's a joke!

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And how did he win Phoenix from his hospital bed? I also don't remember
his picture on the Borg-Warner trophy.

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Actually if Schumi was driving a Williams and only won by half a lap I
would think he MUST have had a mechanical failure. Schumi in a
Wiliams...?!? Brrrrr! That would be scary.

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 >Imagine Aryton driving a big fat Indycar? he would never have done it.
 >The best Drivers drive the most DRIVABLE car ie F1. Indycars are ok but
 >they are not the same as F1 and should not be compared.

Yeah, right.... I'll take Villeneuve in a '96 Reynard Honda with Firestone
tires over any other F1 driver in a '96 F1 car.  Let's see, how about running
a race on a 'neutral' track that neither series currently runs on, such as
Indiannapolis Motor Speedway.  Yeah, those F1 cars will show just how fast
they really are.

Besides, it looks like there are only 2-3 'best' drivers in F1 and everyone
else might as well not show up for 90% of the races.

Clark
Tired of the snobbish attitude of some F1 fans (and I actually LIKE Formula 1)

In F1, it may look like there is only 2-3 best drivers but it
is not the case, not in my mind anyway...  It is more like
there is so much of a gap between the best teams and the good
team, the good team and the average team.  So the poor guys
driving a Forti might be as good as Hill in his William but
we'll never know because he cannot create miracle with a
Forti, and will alwaus stay in shadow.  Take the Jordan not
far from McLaren, Ferrari and maybe William with their
Peugeot engine but there is a major gap comparing chassi with
the last three.

See my point.

In Indycar most cars are pretty much the same, now setup will
play a big role on oval and drivers on road course but the
cars stay the same (almost).

Yves

Craig

 >>
 >> Besides, it looks like there are only 2-3 'best' drivers in F1 and everyone
 >> else might as well not show up for 90% of the races.
 >>
 >> Clark
 >
 >Hi there,
 >
 >In F1, it may look like there is only 2-3 best drivers but it
 >is not the case, not in my mind anyway...  It is more like
 >there is so much of a gap between the best teams and the good
 >team, the good team and the average team.  So the poor guys
 >driving a Forti might be as good as Hill in his William but
 >we'll never know because he cannot create miracle with a
 >Forti, and will alwaus stay in shadow.  Take the Jordan not
 >far from McLaren, Ferrari and maybe William with their
 >Peugeot engine but there is a major gap comparing chassi with
 >the last three.
 >
 >See my point.

Yes, that is also the same point I was trying to make.  In IndyCar racing,
the driver has much more input on how the whole package performs than in F1
where it is the engineering that makes the difference.  For example, look at
the difference in the points battle between Schumacher and Hill.  It is not at
all a good indication of relative driving ability.  On the other hand, take a
look at Al Unser, Jr vs. Jimmy Vasser.  Even though Vasser as an arguably
better car, it is not by such a huge margin that it is not overcomable by a
superior driver.

 >In Indycar most cars are pretty much the same, now setup will
 >play a big role on oval and drivers on road course but the
 >cars stay the same (almost).
 >
 >Yves

It is always interesting to me to watch F1 drivers when they come to IndyCar
and vice versa.  Take Zanardi for example.  He never had the car in F1, but
now that he has a decent car and team, he's actually gotten a win (almost
two).  

All in all, I enjoy both racing series.  But it seams that IndyCar is a
drivers' championship and that F1 is a engineering championship.  That's fine
with me, but it doesn't lead to much non-pit passing for F1.

Now, hopefully with GP2 we will not all be forced to drive a Benneton in order
to be competitive.  I want to rip around the track in a Ferrari.  Note that in
ICR2 that there is not one special car/engine/tire combo that puts you head
and shoulders above the field.  

Clark Archer    Speed Tribe
IVGA #3920      1996 Lola Honda Firestone

Hey, *great* logic. Like Indiannapolis is neutral - you get a lot of
200+mph ovals in F1 <g>

Why not use Donnington or Brands hatch or numerous other F1 circuits
that aren't being used this year?

Actually, can we just drop this thread please - it's off topic &
doesn't belong here. Can't we all just accept that the best F1 drivers
and the best Indy drivers are ***y brilliant, but not necessarily
comparable (just as the best American Footballers are not the best
Rugby players & vice versa).

Follow ups to alt.flame.get.a.life

Richard

F1 cars are nimble rather than built for all out brute force speed - the
same parallels can be drawn between European and US road and performance
cars. A race on IMS would be a totally unfair comparison. Perhaps
comparing the 1000hp+ turbo F1 cars of years gone by on IMS?

Then try putting an F1 car around Laguna Seca - I doubt an Indycar could
keep up through the twists. They're different formulae for different
things and thus impossible to compare. A Lancia Integrale would be both
of them through a special stage - by a LONG way :)

The only thing you can compare are drivers, and even then it's pure
conjecture and blinkered favouritism (in my case at least!) :)

Cheers!
John
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I think you maybe being a little over generous to Zanardi. The driver is
enormously important in F1, as can be seen from the astronomical
salaries teams were/are prepared to pay for exceptional talents such as
Senna and Schumacher.

Now, let's assume that those team managers know a little more than you
and I about Zanardi's driving ability and racing background - do you
think they would have paid to keep him in F1 if he was that good?

Cheers!
John

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Hi there,

Actually, at Monza where Johnny Herbert qualified the newer spec Honda in
4th
place, Zanardi qualified higher with the older revision engine than Johnny
had
managed previously.

If it hadn't have been for Zanardi's horrific accident at the Eau Rouge
chicane
at the belgian Grand Prix who knows where Alex would be today ?

Here's hoping we see him in F1 again soon!

Regards,

Broady

Well...  Maybe, but sometimes in F1 they overlook great talents...  Take
Thierry Boutsen for example...  The only guy that could keep up with
Senna in the rain...  and even overtake him!!!!

He never had the time to fully get into F1...

Greets,

Tonio

Boutsen was a driver who only drove well when he felt like it, some days
he was great, other days it seemed he just couldn't be bothered.

The only race I really remember between Senna and Boutsen was at
Hungaroring in 1990, but it wasn't wet. Maybe Canada '89 was the race
you are thinking of? I'm not sure, but in that race the fastest lap was
set by Johnathon Palmer in a Tyrrell - I think that gives you some idea
that it was an unusual race!!

- Boutsen passed Senna while Senna went into the pits for slicks
- Senna took the lead again as Boutsen pitted
- Senna built a big lead
- Senna and Boutsen both took on wets again
- Boutsen has a HUGE spin as he makes a mistake at 150mph
- Boutsen back into second as Patrese has undertray damage
- Senna goes out of the race as his engine loses oil, Boutsen inherits
the lead.

At no time was Boutsen anywhere near Senna's pace, and he only won
because Senna dropped out. He certainly didn't keep up with Senna, nor
did he overtake him on the track.

Or did you mean a different race?

Cheers!
John

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