I never said that GTR is a terrible sim. Silly. Because of RASCAR, I won't
say what I'd love to.
> Well, I've had my doubts abt. DGF in the past, but he seems to be coming
> around lately. The meds must be working.
> > Bear in mind this is the same DGF that thinks GTR is a terrible sim. Go
> > figure...
> > > Yes, David, but Jan is right - if you're sensitive enuf, you can
"feel"
> > > the
> > > stockcar underpinnings even thru the extensive modifications made to
> > > N2003's
> > > physics engine for GTP.
> > > Two big issues obtain here....
> > > 1. As Jan sez, despite the fact that both stockcars and late-80s
> > > Prototypes
> > > were using radials, the latter had extremely low sidewalls (lower even
> > > than
> > > today's F1s), so the steering response was almost instantaneous.
> > > Stockcars,
> > > then and now, are laterally much "softer" than low-profile tires -
> there's
> > > a
> > > perceptable lag (occasioned by the "hysteresis" in the ***) between
> the
> > > time the wheel rim turns and the time the tire tread follows. Even
so,
> > > Dave
> > > Kaemmer said he had to stop driving GPL after Papy had moved on to the
> > > next
> > > gen NASCAR Racing because GPL's tire model was so bad.
> > > 2. The rest of N2003's physics model is built around a front-engined
> > > chassis
> > > designed to turn left on four equally-sized tires and a "live" (beam)
> rear
> > > axle. IOW, worlds away from the chassis of a rear-engined car with
> > > 4-wheel
> > > indy suspension for roadies, wings & tunnels, and huge differences
> between
> > > the F & R tire sizes.
> > > Plus, of course, anomalies like N2003's RF tire bug. And omissions
like
> > > fast & slow shock values, brake press. settings, packers/buffers, diff
> > > ramp
> > > angles, alt. tire treads and compounds, etc.
> > >> > "Steve Smith" wrote...
> > >> > > No, Jan, it isn't perfect. No matter how fearsome the
> > >> > > wolf's clothing looks, you can still occasionally see
> > >> > > sheep's feet sticking out from under it.
> > >> > None of them are, Steve, it just a matter of how good the
> approximation
> > >> is.
> > >> > > At the end of the day, tho, it's far and away the best mod ever
> done
> > >> > > for N2003...or anything else except GTR.
> > >> > Among the non stock car related mods you mean, I'm sure.
> > >> > > Compared to GTR, GTP feels slightly cartoon-ish, over-
> > >> > > simplified and un-subtle, but the cars drive great,
> > >> > > there's a huge selection of appropriate tracks (altho
> > >> > > not all tracks suitable for stock cars and trux are
> > >> > > suitable for 200+ mph GT Prototypes),
> > >> > Obviously, but is there any point? -the way you're talking it will
> > >> > still
> > >> > have the two basic problems which put me off the TA mod for life:
> > >> > 1) I will feel the chassis move over the tyres before the car will
> even
> > >> > begin to turn in to the corners.
> > >> > 2) it will still be *way* quicker to simply kill the rear and deal
> with
> > >> the
> > >> > resulting mess by balancing throttle against brake
> hotlapper/Schumacher
> > >> > style than to set up the car properly given the laughable
> > >> > rideheights/springrates available.
> > >> > --> No thanks, I'll stick to GPL.
> > >> > > and the online play...and league features...are matchless.
> > >> > Which are also present in the series the game manages to represent
> more
> > > or
> > >> > less adequately: stock cars.
> > >> > Jan.
> > >> > =---
> > >> The GTP cars feel a lot, lot different than the Cup or TA cars.
> > >> --
> > >> David G Fisher
