Sim Racing Software Pricing

It maybe just my impression but it seems to me sim racers are prepared to pay quite significant sums for hardware but are penny pinchers when it comes to software! Wheels and pedals, gear changers, cockpits plus the inevitable PC hardware upgrades in terms of cpus, graphics cards, memory and screens are typical products a sim racing enthusiast is looking at. Unlike other genres there is not a steady flow of titles being released. A typical console gamer will fill up a shelf in months that a sim racer takes many years to fill. 2006 has seen only NetkarPro and the Hudson rFactor add ons that I can think of. Both of which have been at the receiving end of certain sim racers vitriol for ripping us off. Now we all know that NKPro was hardly a model of release management, yet I was surprised how many on RSC took a view that it wasn't just the lack of communication that was the issue but that they had been conned (and getting very vocal about it). I have made some bad gaming choices over the years with other genres to take a view that sim racing software is very good value such that if the investment in NKPro doesn't pay off then so be it. Hopefully though it will bear fruit in the future, then we will feel we played our part. As for Hudson Kerr's updates, my view is here is a guy who is looking to bring professional updates in addition to the hobby groups. Quite frankly I don't think he is going to get mega rich at our expense. Yet if he can turn his day job into working on sim racing updates then it has to be to our benefit in terms of quality and speed of production and we can then choose if we think it is of sufficient value. On the basis rFactor is now a year old, sprucing it up with some excellent updates whilst we wait for a new version seems a reasonable approach. Of course there is also some excellent free stuff for rFactor, but I can vouch for Hudson's work as being at the absolute top end of anything that has been produced, so you know where you stand if you are looking for the best. If you have upgraded to a mid or top end graphics card to improve the visuals by being able to increase resolution, AA or in game detail then it is a relatively small cost. My concern is that if we don't support new ventures like NKPro or Hudson's updates then the already niche group of suppliers of our products will become even more niche and it will limit our options. The same goes for ISI and Simbin. Their approach is continual evolution of their products. They will not seem like quantum leaps yet they need a steady income stream to survive, which require our continual investment. Having experienced the drought of products when Papyrus stopped producing open wheel sims due to financial pressures we should be aware of the consequences. Cheers Tony

> It maybe just my impression but it seems to me sim racers are prepared to pay quite significant sums for hardware but > are penny pinchers when it comes to software! Wheels and pedals, gear changers, cockpits plus the inevitable PC > hardware upgrades in terms of cpus, graphics cards, memory and screens are typical products a sim racing enthusiast is > looking at. In the case of Live For Speed (forums), there are a lot of questions regarding usage of keyboard, which implies these guys don't own wheels or pedals. There's there's probably the majority who own some < $100 wheel and pedal set. It's only a niche group that has the fancy setups. I don't know what the average RSC member spends on hardware, but it's probably not much more than the average LFS member.

Tony Rickard wrote: > Having experienced the drought of products when Papyrus stopped > producing open wheel sims due to financial pressures we should be aware > of the consequences. Why spend money on low-quality products when there are good sims coming out still? I'm not saying that I understand the people who whine about spending $40 on LFS or NKPro when the demos for each give you a good idea of whether the sim is for you or not, but on the other hand I personally can't afford to drop that much change when most of my racing time is still being eaten up by GT Legends and stuff that I'm more likely to enjoy like GTR2 and Simbin's WTCC sim aren't too far off. Not to forget iRacing too. Or the 79 mod for rFactor. Or Driver's Republic (the new sim from the physics programmer who did RBR and a bunch of long-time community members). I also can't fathom spending more than $100 on a sim racing setup either when I've gotten by perfectly fine with a non-FF Sidewinder wheel that I paid $50 for 7 years ago. I'm not saying the immersion factor of an expensive 3 pedal/shifter 3-LCD cockpit setup is a bad thing, but there are guys at the top of the lap charts in every sim using consumer setups like mine (or MSFF's and Logitech Momo's).

jason moyer wrote:

Quoted text (24 lines)

> Tony Rickard wrote: > >> Having experienced the drought of products when Papyrus stopped >> producing open wheel sims due to financial pressures we should be aware >> of the consequences. > > Why spend money on low-quality products when there are good sims coming > out still? I'm not saying that I understand the people who whine about > spending $40 on LFS or NKPro when the demos for each give you a good > idea of whether the sim is for you or not, but on the other hand I > personally can't afford to drop that much change when most of my racing > time is still being eaten up by GT Legends and stuff that I'm more > likely to enjoy like GTR2 and Simbin's WTCC sim aren't too far off. > Not to forget iRacing too. Or the 79 mod for rFactor. Or Driver's > Republic (the new sim from the physics programmer who did RBR and a > bunch of long-time community members). > > I also can't fathom spending more than $100 on a sim racing setup > either when I've gotten by perfectly fine with a non-FF Sidewinder > wheel that I paid $50 for 7 years ago. I'm not saying the immersion > factor of an expensive 3 pedal/shifter 3-LCD cockpit setup is a bad > thing, but there are guys at the top of the lap charts in every sim > using consumer setups like mine (or MSFF's and Logitech Momo's). >

Iracing ? Good lord , Just rehashed Nascar 2003 with the old GPL engine.

Online Racer wrote: > Iracing ? Good lord , Just rehashed Nascar 2003 with the old GPL engine. That's as valid as saying rFactor is just rehashed F1 Challenge with the old Sportscar GT engine, i.e. not really at all.

wow. get a job. jason moyer wrote:

Quoted text (24 lines)

> Tony Rickard wrote: > >> Having experienced the drought of products when Papyrus stopped >> producing open wheel sims due to financial pressures we should be aware >> of the consequences. > > Why spend money on low-quality products when there are good sims coming > out still? I'm not saying that I understand the people who whine about > spending $40 on LFS or NKPro when the demos for each give you a good > idea of whether the sim is for you or not, but on the other hand I > personally can't afford to drop that much change when most of my racing > time is still being eaten up by GT Legends and stuff that I'm more > likely to enjoy like GTR2 and Simbin's WTCC sim aren't too far off. > Not to forget iRacing too. Or the 79 mod for rFactor. Or Driver's > Republic (the new sim from the physics programmer who did RBR and a > bunch of long-time community members). > > I also can't fathom spending more than $100 on a sim racing setup > either when I've gotten by perfectly fine with a non-FF Sidewinder > wheel that I paid $50 for 7 years ago. I'm not saying the immersion > factor of an expensive 3 pedal/shifter 3-LCD cockpit setup is a bad > thing, but there are guys at the top of the lap charts in every sim > using consumer setups like mine (or MSFF's and Logitech Momo's). >

"Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kjTHg.8983$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (7 lines)

> It maybe just my impression but it seems to me sim racers are prepared to > pay quite significant sums for hardware but are penny pinchers when it > comes to software! Wheels and pedals, gear changers, cockpits plus the > inevitable PC hardware upgrades in terms of cpus, graphics cards, memory > and screens are typical products a sim racing enthusiast is looking at. > Cheers > Tony

I agree. I've never understood this either. I hate to waste money like anyone else, but sim racing software is so incredibly cheap for the enjoyment you get out of it, even if you buy an occasional dud. rFactor costs me less than a penny per session by now. -- David G Fisher

jason moyer wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> Online Racer wrote: > >> Iracing ? Good lord , Just rehashed Nascar 2003 with the old GPL engine. > > That's as valid as saying rFactor is just rehashed F1 Challenge with > the old Sportscar GT engine, i.e. not really at all. >

Except that rF has a new physics engine and multi player code. If you look at Iracings propaganda you will see that they are at the very least using the same multi player code.

"Online Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FsnIg.12434$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (11 lines)

> jason moyer wrote: >> Online Racer wrote: >> >>> Iracing ? Good lord , Just rehashed Nascar 2003 with the old GPL engine. >> >> That's as valid as saying rFactor is just rehashed F1 Challenge with >> the old Sportscar GT engine, i.e. not really at all. >> > Except that rF has a new physics engine and multi player code. If you look > at Iracings propaganda you will see that they are at the very least using > the same multi player code.

Makes sense. When you have the best multi player code out there why change it to something else?

"Mike Horton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YMpIg.18185$Ch.5713@clgrps13...

Quoted text (18 lines)

> > "Online Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:FsnIg.12434$[email hidden]... >> jason moyer wrote: >>> Online Racer wrote: >>> >>>> Iracing ? Good lord , Just rehashed Nascar 2003 with the old GPL >>>> engine. >>> >>> That's as valid as saying rFactor is just rehashed F1 Challenge with >>> the old Sportscar GT engine, i.e. not really at all. >>> >> Except that rF has a new physics engine and multi player code. If you >> look at Iracings propaganda you will see that they are at the very least >> using the same multi player code. > > Makes sense. When you have the best multi player code out there why change > it to something else?

You're kidding right? rFactor's is miles ahead. You are the only person I've heard try to claim otherwise. -- David G Fisher

Online Racer wrote: > If you > look at Iracings propaganda you will see that they are at the very least > using the same multi player code. How is that a bad thing? It's still the best of anything I've played (not that rFactor or LFS have bad netcode). If you want to hate iRacing for some uninformed political reasons go ahead, but any discussion on the quality of the product itself is speculation.

"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (12 lines)

> Online Racer wrote: > >> If you >> look at Iracings propaganda you will see that they are at the very least >> using the same multi player code. > > How is that a bad thing? It's still the best of anything I've played > (not that rFactor or LFS have bad netcode). > > If you want to hate iRacing for some uninformed political reasons go > ahead, but any discussion on the quality of the product itself is > speculation.

What are you and Mike smoking tonight? :-) I expect they will improve their net code, but their old multi code doesn't compare to rFactor. If you took a poll.... -- David G Fisher

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > I expect they will improve their net code, but their old multi code > doesn't compare to rFactor. If you took a poll.... > In what ways - features, functionality or both?

I'll admit that I haven't had a lot of experience with rFactor multi. The few times that I've had time to fire it up and attempt online have been dismal though. Mainly finding a race that I could actually join because I didn't have this mod or that track. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (29 lines)

> > "Mike Horton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:YMpIg.18185$Ch.5713@clgrps13... >> >> "Online Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:FsnIg.12434$[email hidden]... >>> jason moyer wrote: >>>> Online Racer wrote: >>>> >>>>> Iracing ? Good lord , Just rehashed Nascar 2003 with the old GPL >>>>> engine. >>>> >>>> That's as valid as saying rFactor is just rehashed F1 Challenge with >>>> the old Sportscar GT engine, i.e. not really at all. >>>> >>> Except that rF has a new physics engine and multi player code. If you >>> look at Iracings propaganda you will see that they are at the very least >>> using the same multi player code. >> >> Makes sense. When you have the best multi player code out there why >> change it to something else? > > You're kidding right? rFactor's is miles ahead. You are the only person > I've heard try to claim otherwise. > > > -- > David G Fisher >

Mike Horton wrote: > I'll admit that I haven't had a lot of experience with rFactor multi. The > few times that I've had time to fire it up and attempt online have been > dismal though. Mainly finding a race that I could actually join because I > didn't have this mod or that track. That is a somewhat different issue though. The Papy on line code was great for its time and it has taken a remarkable amount of time for others to catch up. However, the warp factor required clean racing to have a different approach than real racing as driving close could end up in a warp crash. rFactor pretty much eliminates that and for saloons allows a degree of contact that is pretty realistic in effect, such that a small error and resulting tap doesn't end up with a car spiralling over a barrier. GT Legends is less capable of handling larger numbers but also allows for some door handle rubbing as befits the series. rFactor seems pretty capable of handling large grids although I believe it is more CPU intensive than NR2003. Hopefully rFactor will get its killer mods (such as the 79 mod) which will consolidate the complexity of joining races and give us some greater stability. Before the recent mods for rfactor I had sidelined it, but now it is looking really strong with some great updates from ISI and the aforementioned community mods. It is hard to be tough on mods provided for free, but some of the early rFactor mods did not do it justice, whilst the recent development seem to be untapping the potential and I hope we end up with just a few rising to to the top and not being subject to constant revisions and third party physics patches. Cheers Tony

Price has NOT been the reason for any Sim failure. It's always other reasons. -Larry "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kjTHg.8983$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (51 lines)

> It maybe just my impression but it seems to me sim racers are prepared to > pay quite significant sums for hardware but are penny pinchers when it > comes to software! Wheels and pedals, gear changers, cockpits plus the > inevitable PC hardware upgrades in terms of cpus, graphics cards, memory > and screens are typical products a sim racing enthusiast is looking at. > > Unlike other genres there is not a steady flow of titles being released. A > typical console gamer will fill up a shelf in months that a sim racer > takes many years to fill. > > 2006 has seen only NetkarPro and the Hudson rFactor add ons that I can > think of. Both of which have been at the receiving end of certain sim > racers vitriol for ripping us off. > > Now we all know that NKPro was hardly a model of release management, yet I > was surprised how many on RSC took a view that it wasn't just the lack of > communication that was the issue but that they had been conned (and > getting very vocal about it). I have made some bad gaming choices over the > years with other genres to take a view that sim racing software is very > good value such that if the investment in NKPro doesn't pay off then so be > it. Hopefully though it will bear fruit in the future, then we will feel > we played our part. > > As for Hudson Kerr's updates, my view is here is a guy who is looking to > bring professional updates in addition to the hobby groups. Quite frankly > I don't think he is going to get mega rich at our expense. Yet if he can > turn his day job into working on sim racing updates then it has to be to > our benefit in terms of quality and speed of production and we can then > choose if we think it is of sufficient value. > > On the basis rFactor is now a year old, sprucing it up with some excellent > updates whilst we wait for a new version seems a reasonable approach. > > Of course there is also some excellent free stuff for rFactor, but I can > vouch for Hudson's work as being at the absolute top end of anything that > has been produced, so you know where you stand if you are looking for the > best. If you have upgraded to a mid or top end graphics card to improve > the visuals by being able to increase resolution, AA or in game detail > then it is a relatively small cost. > > My concern is that if we don't support new ventures like NKPro or Hudson's > updates then the already niche group of suppliers of our products will > become even more niche and it will limit our options. The same goes for > ISI and Simbin. Their approach is continual evolution of their products. > They will not seem like quantum leaps yet they need a steady income stream > to survive, which require our continual investment. Having experienced the > drought of products when Papyrus stopped producing open wheel sims due to > financial pressures we should be aware of the consequences. > > Cheers > Tony

Interesting! Where did you hear this? I'd like to read up on it. -Larry "Online Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QF9Ig.13525$[email hidden]... > Iracing ? Good lord , Just rehashed Nascar 2003 with the old GPL engine.

So, the best MP code that's ever been written is somehow invalidated because it's a few years old? Logical. NOT. (Pun intended :)) -Larry "Online Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FsnIg.12434$[email hidden]... > Except that rF has a new physics engine and multi player code. If you look > at Iracings propaganda you will see that they are at the very least using > the same multi player code.

Larry, come one. There's no way in hell it's the best multi code. It was, but it's not even close now. -- David G Fisher "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:uoGIg.4390$_q4.2182@dukeread09... > So, the best MP code that's ever been written is somehow invalidated > because it's a few years old? > > Logical. NOT. (Pun intended :)) > > -Larry > > "Online Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:FsnIg.12434$[email hidden]... > >> Except that rF has a new physics engine and multi player code. If you >> look at Iracings propaganda you will see that they are at the very least >> using the same multi player code. > >

Ditto David Honestly.. I can't even understadn the argument here. There isn't one. GPL was great for it's TIME rFactor netcode is miles above it though. 7 years of gpl tells that for fact. endo "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (27 lines)

> Larry, come one. There's no way in hell it's the best multi code. It was, > but it's not even close now. > > > -- > David G Fisher > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:uoGIg.4390$_q4.2182@dukeread09... >> So, the best MP code that's ever been written is somehow invalidated >> because it's a few years old? >> >> Logical. NOT. (Pun intended :)) >> >> -Larry >> >> "Online Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:FsnIg.12434$[email hidden]... >> >>> Except that rF has a new physics engine and multi player code. If you >>> look at Iracings propaganda you will see that they are at the very least >>> using the same multi player code. >> >> > >

We'll just have to disagree on that I guess :) -Larry "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (27 lines)

> Larry, come one. There's no way in hell it's the best multi code. It was, > but it's not even close now. > > > -- > David G Fisher > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:uoGIg.4390$_q4.2182@dukeread09... >> So, the best MP code that's ever been written is somehow invalidated >> because it's a few years old? >> >> Logical. NOT. (Pun intended :)) >> >> -Larry >> >> "Online Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:FsnIg.12434$[email hidden]... >> >>> Except that rF has a new physics engine and multi player code. If you >>> look at Iracings propaganda you will see that they are at the very least >>> using the same multi player code. >> >> > >

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (22 lines)

> > "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> Online Racer wrote: >> >>> If you >>> look at Iracings propaganda you will see that they are at the very least >>> using the same multi player code. >> >> How is that a bad thing? It's still the best of anything I've played >> (not that rFactor or LFS have bad netcode). >> >> If you want to hate iRacing for some uninformed political reasons go >> ahead, but any discussion on the quality of the product itself is >> speculation. > > What are you and Mike smoking tonight? :-) > > I expect they will improve their net code, but their old multi code > doesn't compare to rFactor. If you took a poll.... > -- > David G Fisher

Your preferences are well documented here David. ;-) And fine too, of course. But do share with us your knowledge of iRacing's current physics and multiplayer code. I'm sure everyone would love to hear the scoop! As for the mentioned old NR2003 multi code, aside from jittering cars when someone had a sketchy connection, what else was the problem and specifically how does rF improve on it? The jittering cars thing was a function of Papy's choice of using more of the raw data coming from the connected players rather than a more smoothed and filtered version like rF does. I think both have their shortcomings; one leaves you with warp crashes (which actually still happen in both, though admittedly much less in rF) and having to leave more space between cars while racing, while the other lets you bump with enough impunity to make racing a contact sport. Not only that, it often has the online cars you're racing against floating around like sprites at times, which I find annoying. With good connections you can bump in NR2003, but you think twice about it. Heck, for that matter you could rub doors pretty convincingly in Nascar Heat so that's nothing new. Not bashing rF here mind you; I have it and enjoy it, as I do GTL (which I generally prefer to rF) and look forward to GTR2. ISI are not missing out on any of my money. ;-) I just don't think anyone's advanced the state of the racing sim art that far, if at all in an overall sense, since NR2003. nKPro at least promised to, but lies in bug-limbo for now; too bad since it really is cutting edge in a number of ways. Despite it's problems, it really is a remarkable achievement considering how few were involved in developing it - Stefano is one seriously talented dude. While we're here in the wayback machine talking Papy vs Now, for my money no one's really beaten VROC for race lobby functionality. And we know where THAT leaves us....! Cheers, SB

That's fair enough Larry :) Just to expand a little though..... I had my fill of wheel-touch "lift off launches" that sent you 1,000 feet in the air. I had my fill of "disco's" specially league races where I was running top 3 near end of race. And.. no that rFactor is any different... but I hated metting for the league races only to find out the vroc / igor was down! IMHO - rFactor does not present these problems at all "for me". *albeit racecaster has been down 3 times that I remember over the last year. I will always love gpl --- but not it's net-code. I do agree re: vroc functionality though - it's great. Cheers ==--== "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GPWIg.4424$_q4.3686@dukeread09...

Quoted text (35 lines)

> We'll just have to disagree on that I guess :) > > -Larry > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> Larry, come one. There's no way in hell it's the best multi code. It was, >> but it's not even close now. >> >> >> -- >> David G Fisher >> >> >> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:uoGIg.4390$_q4.2182@dukeread09... >>> So, the best MP code that's ever been written is somehow invalidated >>> because it's a few years old? >>> >>> Logical. NOT. (Pun intended :)) >>> >>> -Larry >>> >>> "Online Racer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>> news:FsnIg.12434$[email hidden]... >>> >>>> Except that rF has a new physics engine and multi player code. If you >>>> look at Iracings propaganda you will see that they are at the very >>>> least using the same multi player code. >>> >>> >> >> > >

==--== wrote: > GPL was great for it's TIME > rFactor netcode is miles above it though. 7 years of gpl tells that for > fact. GPL's netcode is horrible compared to the sims we're actually discussing. Dave, I really don't think I could argue convincingly one way or another on whether n2003 has better netcode than rFactor. Which is more of a complement than I feel comfortable giving an ISI product. :) BTW, since you're fairly knowledgable about RF, is there any way to adjust the tire skid/scrub sounds a'la the menu sliders that are in GTR/GTL/GTR2? I can't find a way in the menu or the PLR file, but I might be overlooking something. I'd like to get the sound suited to my tastes before the 79 mod comes out.

Steve Blankenship wrote: > Not bashing rF here mind you; I have it and enjoy it, as I do GTL (which I > generally prefer to rF) and look forward to GTR2. I haven't done multi in GTL, but the driving experience is absolutely incredible. The Blimey! boys have a rare talent when it comes to getting good results from ISI's physics code.

jason moyer wrote:

Quoted text (8 lines)

> Steve Blankenship wrote: > >> Not bashing rF here mind you; I have it and enjoy it, as I do GTL (which I >> generally prefer to rF) and look forward to GTR2. > > I haven't done multi in GTL, but the driving experience is absolutely > incredible. The Blimey! boys have a rare talent when it comes to > getting good results from ISI's physics code.

I would have agreed with you up until the '79 mod demo for rFactor. It seems to have taken an age for rFactor's open approach to bare fruit but this really feels so superior to anything released for rFactor thus far it is hard to believe it is from the same sim engine. Going back to GTL now feels a little off. A bit like the GPL days when every other new sim seemed ok but it was back to GPL after a short while. ISI deserve credit for continually improving the engine and the better modders certainly seem to now know how to get the best from it. I just hope we get some form of consolidation around the better mods some time soon, and features like variable weather some time soon. Cheers Tony

On 29 Aug 2006 21:13:44 -0700, jason moyer wrote: > BTW, since you're fairly knowledgable about RF, is there any way to > adjust the tire skid/scrub sounds a'la the menu sliders that are in > GTR/GTL/GTR2? I can't find a way in the menu or the PLR file, but I > might be overlooking something. I'd like to get the sound suited to my > tastes before the 79 mod comes out. > me too! That was a great feature in GTR... cheers, uwe -- GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (18 lines)

> ==--== wrote: > >> GPL was great for it's TIME >> rFactor netcode is miles above it though. 7 years of gpl tells that for >> fact. > > GPL's netcode is horrible compared to the sims we're actually > discussing. > > Dave, I really don't think I could argue convincingly one way or > another on whether n2003 has better netcode than rFactor. Which is > more of a complement than I feel comfortable giving an ISI product. :) > > BTW, since you're fairly knowledgable about RF, is there any way to > adjust the tire skid/scrub sounds a'la the menu sliders that are in > GTR/GTL/GTR2? I can't find a way in the menu or the PLR file, but I > might be overlooking something. I'd like to get the sound suited to my > tastes before the 79 mod comes out.

Sorry, missed this post. All I've done with the sound is to lower my engine sound slider so I could hear the tire sounds better. I actually run with the sound as low as possible, so I'm not the guy to ask about sound settings. I've always kept the volume low in every sim. Noise bothers me, unless I've plugged in my Gibson. :-) If I were you I'd ask your question at RSC. -- David G Fisher

Didn't know you were into Guitars, Dave. So am I. Unfortunately the term "Noise" is quite accurate for me :) Good equipment. No skilz :) -Larry "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (12 lines)

> Sorry, missed this post. All I've done with the sound is to lower my > engine sound slider so I could hear the tire sounds better. I actually run > with the sound as low as possible, so I'm not the guy to ask about sound > settings. I've always kept the volume low in every sim. Noise bothers me, > unless I've plugged in my Gibson. :-) > > If I were you I'd ask your question at RSC. > > > -- > David G Fisher >