NR 2003 Interview Article

"Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cEKH9.223250$[email hidden]... > http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=7430&mode=thread&order=0 Imagine the legacy Papy could leave behind with their last NASCAR sim for the PC if they would allow us (the community) to have the flexibility to modify physics parameters, create new cars and tracks, etc. ala ISI and their F1 series, and for that matter the NASCAR Heat title as well. NR2003 could live forever - or at least a very long time! We could create mods for Australian V8 Supercars, TOCA BTCC, ALMS, CART, etc. all with the Papy physics / graphics and superior multiplayer. I wonder if there is a possibility that this will happen... - Dave Cook

Ya and be a hackers dream too. That's the problem, if it's open it becomes easier to cheat :-\ The old catch-22 "Dave Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VPKH9.5749$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (17 lines)

> "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:cEKH9.223250$[email hidden]... > > http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=7430&mode=thread&order=0 > > Imagine the legacy Papy could leave behind with their last NASCAR sim for > the PC if they would allow us (the community) to have the flexibility to > modify physics parameters, create new cars and tracks, etc. ala ISI and > their F1 series, and for that matter the NASCAR Heat title as well. > > NR2003 could live forever - or at least a very long time! We could create > mods for Australian V8 Supercars, TOCA BTCC, ALMS, CART, etc. all with the > Papy physics / graphics and superior multiplayer. I wonder if there is a > possibility that this will happen... > > - Dave Cook > >

Dave Cook wrote: > > NR2003 could live forever - or at least a very long time! We could create > mods for Australian V8 Supercars Yes we could :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

> NR2003 could live forever - or at least a very long time! We could create > mods for Australian V8 Supercars, TOCA BTCC, ALMS, CART, etc. all with the > Papy physics / graphics and superior multiplayer. I wonder if there is a > possibility that this will happen... > While I completely agree that this would be an awesome prospect, I see quite a major problem with that (sorry cup half full today ;)) It would be very hard to guarentee that everyone was using the correct car, i.e. that they havent fiddled with the physics / power. I know this can be done if you REALLY REALLY want to in GPL / Nascar, but its far less likely than in an "open" sim. Perhaps there could be some safety checks? I dunno. I think GPL's closed data files have actually been one of the big reasons that it has lasted in the online arena for so long. I hope it is open - i dont really care if it ruins ANOTHER nascar title :P All the best, Ash http://www.siroccoracing.com

Schooner wrote: > > Ya and be a hackers dream too. That's the problem, if it's open it becomes > easier to cheat :-\ > The old catch-22 Yes and no, it would be less of a problem if the server checked certain parameters in certain files when a client connected, if these files are OK compared to the similar files on the server, we should be ok to "mod" Fire up the server with this mod, server compares with those files, fire up with that mod, server compares with those files instead, how hard could that be ? Speaking as a non programmer here, I really don't have a clue :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

Speaking as a programmer :) it would be easy enough to do if there was some control over which files could be modded and so on. Even with the current check in N2002 some have found a way around them like the new tires hack and so on. nothing is perfect but at least for leagues you could go on the honour system. Cheats are usually pretty easy to spot. "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Schooner wrote: > > > > Ya and be a hackers dream too. That's the problem, if it's open itbecomes

Quoted text (22 lines)

> > easier to cheat :-\ > > The old catch-22 > > Yes and no, it would be less of a problem if the server checked certain > parameters in certain files when a client connected, if these files are > OK compared to the similar files on the server, we should be ok to "mod" > > Fire up the server with this mod, server compares with those files, fire > up with that mod, server compares with those files instead, how hard > could that be ? > > Speaking as a non programmer here, I really don't have a clue :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "goyl at nettx dot no" > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > --Groucho Marx--

Interesting interview.. My favorite question was: Q : Will you be able to run over other racers pit crews? SM : No, and quite frankly this is something we would never want to see in our Sim. Fools... obviously never had any sort of background infomation on NASCAR sims or Papy for that...... Luke -=87=- "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cEKH9.223250$[email hidden]... > http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=7430&mode=thread&order=0 > >

"In fact, the physics model is so accurate now that we can plug in a real-life Winston Cup Car setup, and the car will behave just as it would in real life. " Careful you don't step in the bullshit.

"Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:r9LH9.223257$[email hidden]... > Speaking as a programmer :) it would be easy enough to do if there wassome > control over which files could be modded and so on. Even with the current > check in N2002 some have found a way around them like the new tires hackand > so on. nothing is perfect but at least for leagues you could go on the > honour system. Cheats are usually pretty easy to spot. I guess the West's have something in mind like this for Racing Legends, correct? They plan on open architecture for cars, physics and tracks but in some way or fashion they are going to keep everything 'on the up' so that there are no cheaters. I suppose there's always the possibility that their title will give us what we are talking about - if we ever see it... - Dave

Well they have an advantage over most, vapourware is much harder to hack ;-) "Dave Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NlLH9.5783$[email hidden]... > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:r9LH9.223257$[email hidden]... > > Speaking as a programmer :) it would be easy enough to do if there was > some > > control over which files could be modded and so on. Even with thecurrent

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > check in N2002 some have found a way around them like the new tires hack > and > > so on. nothing is perfect but at least for leagues you could go on the > > honour system. Cheats are usually pretty easy to spot. > > I guess the West's have something in mind like this for Racing Legends, > correct? They plan on open architecture for cars, physics and tracks but

in > some way or fashion they are going to keep everything 'on the up' so that > there are no cheaters. > > I suppose there's always the possibility that their title will give uswhat > we are talking about - if we ever see it... > > - Dave > >

I don't think it's BS. It may be over stated but I think he is addressing issues where in NR2002 that weird unrealistic setups sometimes worked in the sim that wouldn't in real life. NR2003 will be much more in line with reality. "Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:asnvg0$s3vvr$[email hidden]... > "In fact, the physics model is so accurate now that we can plug in a > real-life Winston Cup Car setup, and the car will behave just as it wouldin > real life. " > > Careful you don't step in the bullshit. > >

On Thu, 05 Dec 2002 16:06:13 GMT, "Dave Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Imagine the legacy Papy could leave behind with their last NASCAR sim for >the PC if they would allow us (the community) to have the flexibility to >modify physics parameters, create new cars and tracks, etc. ala ISI and >their F1 series, and for that matter the NASCAR Heat title as well. The ability to modify all of those things exists in all of Papy's games. People have changed the physics in N2002, the problem is that without being able to modify the engine itself and the formulas it uses as shortcuts for things that can't be simulated in real-time you can't do much useful with it. I could see someone maybe doing a nice V8 mod, since the car characteristics are similar, but I doubt you could make an open wheeled sim that was remotely convincing. Jason

On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:54:01 -0400, "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote: >http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=7430&mode=thread&order=0 ------ Q : What sort of damage system will there be in NASCAR 2003? SM : At this time we are still tweaking our damage model. Visually not much will change from NR2002, but we plan on making sure that the NR2003 damage model more accurately represents the penalties that would result from contact with walls and other cars in the real world. ----- For the love of all things good I hope this is true. Jason

Don't get me wrong, I hope all the, uh, 'idiosyncrasies' are gone, and a realistic setup will get better results, but plugging in a real setup and the car handling "just as it would in real life"? It's statements like that which turn me against products. Another one is 'the engine sound deliberately gets bad because it's realistic' in GTR2002. Yeah, right. Doesn't mean they aren't great sims, though. "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vuLH9.223262$[email hidden]... > I don't think it's BS. It may be over stated but I think he is addressing > issues where in NR2002 that weird unrealistic setups sometimes worked inthe

Quoted text (7 lines)

> sim that wouldn't in real life. NR2003 will be much more in line with > reality. > > "Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:asnvg0$s3vvr$[email hidden]... > > "In fact, the physics model is so accurate now that we can plug in a > > real-life Winston Cup Car setup, and the car will behave just as it

would

Quoted text (8 lines)

> in > > real life. " > > > > Careful you don't step in the bullshit. > > > > > >

Nick wrote: > "In fact, the physics model is so accurate now that we can plug in a > real-life Winston Cup Car setup, and the car will behave just as it would in > real life. " > > Careful you don't step in the bullshit. How many times have we heard that from Papy? -jde

Here's a thought for mod-friendly online simming. With NR2002, you already DL and use locally some parameters from the server, such as track grip, skins, etc. Why not do the same with the track geometry and car data? They can even use text files ala ISI; open for anyone to tweak to their hearts' desire, but if you're racing online you use the common carset used by the server. Might add a second or two to the log-on, but I don't see any other big problems. Seems like that would nuke the most common avenues for cheating, though intrepid souls will always find a way... ;-) SB "Ashley McConnell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:asnuj8$hff$[email hidden]... > > > NR2003 could live forever - or at least a very long time! We couldcreate > > mods for Australian V8 Supercars, TOCA BTCC, ALMS, CART, etc. all withthe > > Papy physics / graphics and superior multiplayer. I wonder if there isa > > possibility that this will happen... > > > > While I completely agree that this would be an awesome prospect, I seequite > a major problem with that (sorry cup half full today ;)) > > It would be very hard to guarentee that everyone was using the correctcar, > i.e. that they havent fiddled with the physics / power. I know this canbe > done if you REALLY REALLY want to in GPL / Nascar, but its far less likely > than in an "open" sim. Perhaps there could be some safety checks? Idunno.

Quoted text (11 lines)

> I think GPL's closed data files have actually been one of the big reasons > that it has lasted in the online arena for so long. > > I hope it is open - i dont really care if it ruins ANOTHER nascar title :P > > All the best, > Ash > http://www.siroccoracing.com > > >

Ya I think some mod the settings in memory after the load and check. "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Here's a thought for mod-friendly online simming. With NR2002, youalready > DL and use locally some parameters from the server, such as track grip, > skins, etc. Why not do the same with the track geometry and car data?They > can even use text files ala ISI; open for anyone to tweak to their hearts' > desire, but if you're racing online you use the common carset used by the > server. Might add a second or two to the log-on, but I don't see anyother

Quoted text (13 lines)

> big problems. Seems like that would nuke the most common avenues for > cheating, though intrepid souls will always find a way... ;-) > > SB > > "Ashley McConnell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:asnuj8$hff$[email hidden]... > > > > > NR2003 could live forever - or at least a very long time! We could > create > > > mods for Australian V8 Supercars, TOCA BTCC, ALMS, CART, etc. all with > the > > > Papy physics / graphics and superior multiplayer. I wonder if there

is

Quoted text (13 lines)

> a > > > possibility that this will happen... > > > > > > > While I completely agree that this would be an awesome prospect, I see > quite > > a major problem with that (sorry cup half full today ;)) > > > > It would be very hard to guarentee that everyone was using the correct > car, > > i.e. that they havent fiddled with the physics / power. I know this can > be > > done if you REALLY REALLY want to in GPL / Nascar, but its far less

likely > > than in an "open" sim. Perhaps there could be some safety checks? I > dunno. > > I think GPL's closed data files have actually been one of the bigreasons > > that it has lasted in the online arena for so long. > > > > I hope it is open - i dont really care if it ruins ANOTHER nascar title:P

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > > > All the best, > > Ash > > http://www.siroccoracing.com > > > > > > > >

Well I am sure he's tellin' it like it is. I mean, just check the quote about system req's. "The recommended system is a P3-800, 128 megs of RAM, and a 32MB D3D or Open GL video card. " So my old box over in the corner will rock with this puppy. COOL! One more tidbit, though not a happy one for those looking for an early Xmas toy to play with: "SM : There will be a demo, but it will be post-release. " SB ...feeling cynical today. ;-) "J.D. Ellis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Nick wrote: > > "In fact, the physics model is so accurate now that we can plug in a > > real-life Winston Cup Car setup, and the car will behave just as itwould in

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > real life. " > > > > Careful you don't step in the bullshit. > > How many times have we heard that from Papy? > > -jde >

He also said the specs were the same as NR2002, so either he's lying about the specs, or he's lying about the physics improvements... "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Well I am sure he's tellin' it like it is. I mean, just check the quote > about system req's. "The recommended system is a P3-800, 128 megs of RAM, > and a 32MB D3D or Open GL video card. " So my old box over in the corner > will rock with this puppy. COOL! > > One more tidbit, though not a happy one for those looking for an earlyXmas

Quoted text (23 lines)

> toy to play with: > > "SM : There will be a demo, but it will be post-release. " > > SB > ...feeling cynical today. ;-) > > "J.D. Ellis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Nick wrote: > > > "In fact, the physics model is so accurate now that we can plug in a > > > real-life Winston Cup Car setup, and the car will behave just as it > would in > > > real life. " > > > > > > Careful you don't step in the bullshit. > > > > How many times have we heard that from Papy? > > > > -jde > > > >

"Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > I could see someone maybe doing a nice > V8 mod, since the car characteristics are similar, but I doubt you > could make an open wheeled sim that was remotely convincing. Well, the guys at SBDT took an open wheel sim and made it into a GT sim. I was hoping for more flexibility in the Papy engine than currently exists I guess... - Dave

Well I'm sure there are some stretches of the truth in there for sure but look at it this way, come Feb it will be released and it will no doubt be the best sim avaiable. "Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aso78t$t1t1j$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (7 lines)

> He also said the specs were the same as NR2002, so either he's lying about > the specs, or he's lying about the physics improvements... > > "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Well I am sure he's tellin' it like it is. I mean, just check the quote > > about system req's. "The recommended system is a P3-800, 128 megs of

RAM, > > and a 32MB D3D or Open GL video card. " So my old box over in thecorner

Quoted text (29 lines)

> > will rock with this puppy. COOL! > > > > One more tidbit, though not a happy one for those looking for an early > Xmas > > toy to play with: > > > > "SM : There will be a demo, but it will be post-release. " > > > > SB > > ...feeling cynical today. ;-) > > > > "J.D. Ellis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Nick wrote: > > > > "In fact, the physics model is so accurate now that we can plug in a > > > > real-life Winston Cup Car setup, and the car will behave just as it > > would in > > > > real life. " > > > > > > > > Careful you don't step in the bullshit. > > > > > > How many times have we heard that from Papy? > > > > > > -jde > > > > > > > > >

Agreed. Hope Noonan's converter will work with it... SB "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ckNH9.223312$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (7 lines)

> Well I'm sure there are some stretches of the truth in there for sure but > look at it this way, come Feb it will be released and it will no doubt be > the best sim avaiable. > > "Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:aso78t$t1t1j$[email hidden]... > > He also said the specs were the same as NR2002, so either he's lying

about > > the specs, or he's lying about the physics improvements... > > > > "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote inmessage > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Well I am sure he's tellin' it like it is. I mean, just check thequote

Quoted text (19 lines)

> > > about system req's. "The recommended system is a P3-800, 128 megs of > RAM, > > > and a 32MB D3D or Open GL video card. " So my old box over in the > corner > > > will rock with this puppy. COOL! > > > > > > One more tidbit, though not a happy one for those looking for an early > > Xmas > > > toy to play with: > > > > > > "SM : There will be a demo, but it will be post-release. " > > > > > > SB > > > ...feeling cynical today. ;-) > > > > > > "J.D. Ellis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Nick wrote: > > > > > "In fact, the physics model is so accurate now that we can plug in

a > > > > > real-life Winston Cup Car setup, and the car will behave just asit

Quoted text (15 lines)

> > > would in > > > > > real life. " > > > > > > > > > > Careful you don't step in the bullshit. > > > > > > > > How many times have we heard that from Papy? > > > > > > > > -jde > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Steve Blankenship wrote: > Agreed. Hope Noonan's converter will work with it... > Steve: I've read elsewhere that Dave has the intention of making an NR2k3 "patch" for registered users. -jde

Does that mean that if your back end hits the wall, your front end won't magically crumple anymore? David G Fisher "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (17 lines)

> On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:54:01 -0400, "Schooner" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=7430&mode=thread&order=0 > > ------ > Q : What sort of damage system will there be in NASCAR 2003? > > SM : At this time we are still tweaking our damage model. Visually not > much will change from NR2002, but we plan on making sure that the > NR2003 damage model more accurately represents the penalties that > would result from contact with walls and other cars in the real world. > ----- > > For the love of all things good I hope this is true. > > Jason

Lovely - thanks! "J.D. Ellis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (11 lines)

> Steve Blankenship wrote: > > Agreed. Hope Noonan's converter will work with it... > > > > Steve: > > I've read elsewhere that Dave has the intention of making an NR2k3 > "patch" for registered users. > > -jde >

On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:31:18 -0500, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Does that mean that if your back end hits the wall, your front end won't >magically crumple anymore? I've never seen that happen, tho I have seen some weird damage locations, like having the roof cave in when you slide sideways into a wall on the roadcourses. On the ovals, I dunno that I've had any problems of that sort tho. You know, I've been messing a bit with Thunder 2003 on the xbox, and somehow it seems that the damage model is better than any PC racing sim I've played, visually. Dunno about performance (altho after I repaired my car at Daytona I was way off pace) but I've seen some cool effects like banging a fender in, donuts on the sides of the cars, having big chunks of body work just sort of dangling off the car. Pretty neat stuff for an arcade racer. Jason

Quoted text (7 lines)

> You know, I've been messing a bit with Thunder 2003 on the xbox, and > somehow it seems that the damage model is better than any PC racing > sim I've played, visually. Dunno about performance (altho after I > repaired my car at Daytona I was way off pace) but I've seen some cool > effects like banging a fender in, donuts on the sides of the cars, > having big chunks of body work just sort of dangling off the car. > Pretty neat stuff for an arcade racer.

Yeah...Project Gotham Racing probably has the best damage modelling I've seen in a game. Unfortunately it has no effect on car performance but I'm told that it will in the upcoming sequel. Speaking of Xbox racing games, I checked out Sega GT 2002 recently - very dissappointing from a sim racers point of view. The handling is just as vague and forgiving as Gran Turismo 3. PGR isn't very realistic either but at least it's fun and demanding to drive at the limit.

On Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:53:26 +1000, "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Speaking of Xbox racing games, I checked out Sega GT 2002 recently - very >dissappointing from a sim racers point of view. The handling is just as >vague and forgiving as Gran Turismo 3. PGR isn't very realistic either but >at least it's fun and demanding to drive at the limit. Really? I sort of assumed it was just Metropolis Street Racer with nicer graphics. Maybe I'll have to check it out, since it's been discounted recently. I like Sega GT 2002 quite a bit, but I can't imagine it would be very much fun with a wheel. Thunder 2003, on the other hand, is incredibly frustrating with a gamepad. I may actually have to find a cheap wheel for it. Jason