9700Pro Slower Ti4600

So far very dissapointed in the 9700Pro, running the same settings in NR2002 and NR2003(everything on and maxed out in both) demo the FPS is avg. 8-10 less than the Ti4600 in opengl or d3d. Why? using the latest drivers I could find. 6.14.01.6255 I thought this card was suppose to faster than the Ti4600. Not looking good, on to more testing, but I'm not going to lower my settings when the Ti4600 ran it fine with them. 1280x960x32 opengl and D3D. and the Ti4600 seems much faster in D3D in the 2003 demo @ 1600x1200.

"Morris Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > So far very dissapointed in the 9700Pro, running the same settings inNR2002 > and NR2003(everything on and maxed out in both) demo the FPS is avg. 8-10 > less than the Ti4600 in opengl or d3d. > Why? using the latest drivers I could find. 6.14.01.6255 > I thought this card was suppose to faster than the Ti4600. > Not looking good, on to more testing, but I'm not going to lower mysettings > when the Ti4600 ran it fine with them. > 1280x960x32 opengl and D3D. and the Ti4600 seems much faster in D3D in the > 2003 demo @ 1600x1200. >CATALYST 3.0 drivers. If you find it slower, then something else is wrong with your system. The ATI should be flying. You don't mention your other components.

where do I get the 3.0 drivers? Thanks, P.S> rest of system P4 2.53 1gig PC800 120gig hD audigy 2 "redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b1kb0p$149jqg$[email hidden]... > > "Morris Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > So far very dissapointed in the 9700Pro, running the same settings in > NR2002 > > and NR2003(everything on and maxed out in both) demo the FPS is avg.8-10

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> > less than the Ti4600 in opengl or d3d. > > Why? using the latest drivers I could find. 6.14.01.6255 > > I thought this card was suppose to faster than the Ti4600. > > Not looking good, on to more testing, but I'm not going to lower my > settings > > when the Ti4600 ran it fine with them. > > 1280x960x32 opengl and D3D. and the Ti4600 seems much faster in D3D in

the

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> > 2003 demo @ 1600x1200. > > > CATALYST 3.0 drivers. > If you find it slower, then something else is wrong with your system. The > ATI should be flying. > You don't mention your other components. > >

Just found out I'm already using the 3.0's, "Morris Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > So far very dissapointed in the 9700Pro, running the same settings inNR2002 > and NR2003(everything on and maxed out in both) demo the FPS is avg. 8-10 > less than the Ti4600 in opengl or d3d. > Why? using the latest drivers I could find. 6.14.01.6255 > I thought this card was suppose to faster than the Ti4600. > Not looking good, on to more testing, but I'm not going to lower mysettings > when the Ti4600 ran it fine with them. > 1280x960x32 opengl and D3D. and the Ti4600 seems much faster in D3D in the > 2003 demo @ 1600x1200. > >

Go through your settings and make sure things like 16x anisotropic aren't set on. Otherwise, there has to be remnants of your 4600 drivers still hanging around. Did you install standard vga drivers before switching cards or did you just install the ATI drivers right over the 4600 drivers? If you did it right and are still having a problem, you'll need to find a way to clean every bit of the 4600 drivers out of your system, including the registry. -- Slot Tweaks & Reviews www.slottweak.com "Morris Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > So far very dissapointed in the 9700Pro, running the same settings in NR2002 > and NR2003(everything on and maxed out in both) demo the FPS is avg. 8-10 > less than the Ti4600 in opengl or d3d. > Why? using the latest drivers I could find. 6.14.01.6255 > I thought this card was suppose to faster than the Ti4600. > Not looking good, on to more testing, but I'm not going to lower my settings > when the Ti4600 ran it fine with them. > 1280x960x32 opengl and D3D. and the Ti4600 seems much faster in D3D in the > 2003 demo @ 1600x1200. > >

I recently tested out a 9700 pro, and compared it to the 4600 I've been using for months. My system is a P4 2.53, with 1gig of PC1066 RDRAM. Anyway I found that the 9700 was about 10fps slower then the GeForce in OpenGL, however it was about 5-8 fps faster then the GF in D3D, which was about the same FPS I was getting in Open GL on my geforce. I also tried disabling a bunch of things to see if I could get much of a FPS increase, and I really couldn't up the frame rate at all. What I was running by default was 1600x1200x16 with 2x FSAA on, however on the 9700 I was running 32 bit instead of 16 bit color, because I saw no performance difference. What I found was that I could turn on some anisotropic filtering, and get no lose of performance. Matter of fact I could run 4x FSAA, and 8x AF with little or no performance hit, these settings would have brought my Geforce 4 to its knees. The game looked 10x better on the 9700 with these settings and ran as well in D3D, as I was able to run the Geforce in OpenGL. So while you might not be able to get much of a frame rate increase with the 9700 you shoukd be able to turn on alot more candy with out any lose. I did notice a much bigger performance increase in other games I tried, like BF1942, and Ghost Recon. For some reason these types of games saw a big increase in frame rate with the 9700 pro, as aposed to NR2003 which saw different results. Jay Taylor "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b1kcs8$14c8l1$[email hidden]... > Go through your settings and make sure things like 16x anisotropic aren't > set on. Otherwise, there has to be remnants of your 4600 drivers still > hanging around. Did you install standard vga drivers before switchingcards > or did you just install the ATI drivers right over the 4600 drivers? Ifyou

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> did it right and are still having a problem, you'll need to find a way to > clean every bit of the 4600 drivers out of your system, including the > registry. > > > -- > Slot > > Tweaks & Reviews > www.slottweak.com > > > > "Morris Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > So far very dissapointed in the 9700Pro, running the same settings in > NR2002 > > and NR2003(everything on and maxed out in both) demo the FPS is avg.

8-10

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> > less than the Ti4600 in opengl or d3d. > > Why? using the latest drivers I could find. 6.14.01.6255 > > I thought this card was suppose to faster than the Ti4600. > > Not looking good, on to more testing, but I'm not going to lower my > settings > > when the Ti4600 ran it fine with them. > > 1280x960x32 opengl and D3D. and the Ti4600 seems much faster in D3D in

the > > 2003 demo @ 1600x1200. > > > > > > >

"Morris Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > So far very dissapointed in the 9700Pro, running the same settings inNR2002 > and NR2003(everything on and maxed out in both) demo the FPS is avg. 8-10 > less than the Ti4600 in opengl or d3d. > Why? using the latest drivers I could find. 6.14.01.6255 > I thought this card was suppose to faster than the Ti4600. > Not looking good, on to more testing, but I'm not going to lower mysettings > when the Ti4600 ran it fine with them. > 1280x960x32 opengl and D3D. and the Ti4600 seems much faster in D3D in the > 2003 demo @ 1600x1200. Have you reinstalled windows since the change of card? Anything like a CPU, Mobo, GFX card, Sound card - a change really requires a reinstall of windows to eliminate any inapropriate drivers Doug

"Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:g4j%9.5846$9u5.491617@wards... > Anything like a CPU, Mobo, GFX card, Sound card - a change really requiresa > reinstall of windows to eliminate any inapropriate drivers >Ridiculous.

Great explanation. I also had a similar interesting experience going from a GeForce2 GTS 64MB to a 128 MB GeForce 4 8xAGP (Asus v9280). In some games, the fps rose quite a bit. In GPL and NR2002, the fps was about the same, but I could run in 32 bit with no impact and a few other little goodies also seemed to have no effect, so basically, you got a bit better looks, but no higher fps. NR2003 can bring my system to it's knees just by enabling shadows. P4 2.0, 512 MB Rambus, etc. Marc "Jay Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vTi%9.2693$[email hidden]...

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> I recently tested out a 9700 pro, and compared it to the 4600 I've been > using for months. My system is a P4 2.53, with 1gig of PC1066 RDRAM. > Anyway I found that the 9700 was about 10fps slower then the GeForce in > OpenGL, however it was about 5-8 fps faster then the GF in D3D, which was > about the same FPS I was getting in Open GL on my geforce. I also tried > disabling a bunch of things to see if I could get much of a FPS increase, > and I really couldn't up the frame rate at all. > > What I was running by default was 1600x1200x16 with 2x FSAA on, however

on > the 9700 I was running 32 bit instead of 16 bit color, because I saw no > performance difference. What I found was that I could turn on some > anisotropic filtering, and get no lose of performance. Matter of fact I > could run 4x FSAA, and 8x AF with little or no performance hit, these > settings would have brought my Geforce 4 to its knees. The game looked10x > better on the 9700 with these settings and ran as well in D3D, as I wasable > to run the Geforce in OpenGL. So while you might not be able to get much > of a frame rate increase with the 9700 you shoukd be able to turn on alot > more candy with out any lose. > > I did notice a much bigger performance increase in other games I tried,like

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> BF1942, and Ghost Recon. For some reason these types of games saw a big > increase in frame rate with the 9700 pro, as aposed to NR2003 which saw > different results. > > > Jay Taylor > > > > > > "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:b1kcs8$14c8l1$[email hidden]... > > Go through your settings and make sure things like 16x anisotropic

aren't > > set on. Otherwise, there has to be remnants of your 4600 drivers still > > hanging around. Did you install standard vga drivers before switching > cards > > or did you just install the ATI drivers right over the 4600 drivers? If > you > > did it right and are still having a problem, you'll need to find a wayto

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> > clean every bit of the 4600 drivers out of your system, including the > > registry. > > > > > > -- > > Slot > > > > Tweaks & Reviews > > www.slottweak.com > > > > > > > > "Morris Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > So far very dissapointed in the 9700Pro, running the same settings in > > NR2002 > > > and NR2003(everything on and maxed out in both) demo the FPS is avg. > 8-10 > > > less than the Ti4600 in opengl or d3d. > > > Why? using the latest drivers I could find. 6.14.01.6255 > > > I thought this card was suppose to faster than the Ti4600. > > > Not looking good, on to more testing, but I'm not going to lower my > > settings > > > when the Ti4600 ran it fine with them. > > > 1280x960x32 opengl and D3D. and the Ti4600 seems much faster in D3D in > the > > > 2003 demo @ 1600x1200. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hvj%9.746$[email hidden]... > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:g4j%9.5846$9u5.491617@wards... > > Anything like a CPU, Mobo, GFX card, Sound card - a change reallyrequires > a > > reinstall of windows to eliminate any inapropriate drivers > > > Ridiculous. $5 says that if he hasnt reinstalled his OS by now - he'll have a perormance improvement when he does Doug

"Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:dWj%9.5850$9u5.492438@wards...

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> > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:hvj%9.746$[email hidden]... > > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:g4j%9.5846$9u5.491617@wards... > > > Anything like a CPU, Mobo, GFX card, Sound card - a change really > requires > > a > > > reinstall of windows to eliminate any inapropriate drivers > > > > > Ridiculous. > > $5 says that if he hasnt reinstalled his OS by now - he'll have a

perormance > improvement when he does Infact - I point you to the post "Ti4600 to a 9700Pro my story" thread just a few up from this... "So I figure I gained about 10-15% performance by reformatting and re-installing Windows on a fresh install, so there probably was some left over driver instances causing the slowdowns." He has quantitive values to demonstrate this Doug

A reinstall of windows will almost always speed things up. It sounds like the ATI and Nvidia cards are on par, but when it comes down to the crunch with features like FSAA and 32 bit colour, where the Nvidia would bog down the ATI just powers on. I'm seriously considering getting a 9700pro....trying to convince that part of the brain saying 'you've bought enough already you almighty fool'. I've got a crappy gf3 ti200 at the moment so it no doubt will blow my socks off.., please someone convince me not to buy a new card! massivechicken "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_Uj%9.15587$pS2.592005@stones...

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> > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:dWj%9.5850$9u5.492438@wards... > > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:hvj%9.746$[email hidden]... > > > > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:g4j%9.5846$9u5.491617@wards... > > > > Anything like a CPU, Mobo, GFX card, Sound card - a change really > > requires > > > a > > > > reinstall of windows to eliminate any inapropriate drivers > > > > > > > Ridiculous. > > > > $5 says that if he hasnt reinstalled his OS by now - he'll have a > perormance > > improvement when he does > > Infact - I point you to the post "Ti4600 to a 9700Pro my story" thread

just

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> a few up from this... > > "So I figure I gained about 10-15% performance by reformatting and > re-installing Windows on a fresh install, so there probably was some left > over driver instances causing the slowdowns." > > He has quantitive values to demonstrate this > > Doug > > >

Only when a system is poorly maintained. But operated correctly, you won't find a 10-15% performance gain. "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_Uj%9.15587$pS2.592005@stones...

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> > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:dWj%9.5850$9u5.492438@wards... > > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:hvj%9.746$[email hidden]... > > > > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:g4j%9.5846$9u5.491617@wards... > > > > Anything like a CPU, Mobo, GFX card, Sound card - a change really > > requires > > > a > > > > reinstall of windows to eliminate any inapropriate drivers > > > > > > > Ridiculous. > > > > $5 says that if he hasnt reinstalled his OS by now - he'll have a > perormance > > improvement when he does > > Infact - I point you to the post "Ti4600 to a 9700Pro my story" thread just > a few up from this... > > "So I figure I gained about 10-15% performance by reformatting and > re-installing Windows on a fresh install, so there probably was some left > over driver instances causing the slowdowns." > > He has quantitive values to demonstrate this > > Doug > > >

Care to tell me what you think was poorly maintained on my system Tim? When you follow the directions that are available for removing all drivers for the Ti4600, and then install the ATI 9700Pro according to the available instructions, I don't see where that is being poorly maintained.... If you are considering maybe defrag, or other "housecleaning issues" then save your breathe. Defrag is automatically run on my system every other week, and not the wimpy Windows version either. Diskkeeper is about the best I have found, and the most reliable. So either explain your statement, or choose better wording please. Glen Pittman "TDRacin�" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:AWl%9.434$[email hidden]... > Only when a system is poorly maintained. But operated correctly, youwon't find a 10-15% performance gain. > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:_Uj%9.15587$pS2.592005@stones...

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> > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:dWj%9.5850$9u5.492438@wards... > > > > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:hvj%9.746$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:g4j%9.5846$9u5.491617@wards... > > > > > Anything like a CPU, Mobo, GFX card, Sound card - a change really > > > requires > > > > a > > > > > reinstall of windows to eliminate any inapropriate drivers > > > > > > > > > Ridiculous. > > > > > > $5 says that if he hasnt reinstalled his OS by now - he'll have a > > perormance > > > improvement when he does > > > > Infact - I point you to the post "Ti4600 to a 9700Pro my story" thread

just > > a few up from this... > > > > "So I figure I gained about 10-15% performance by reformatting and > > re-installing Windows on a fresh install, so there probably was someleft

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> > over driver instances causing the slowdowns." > > > > He has quantitive values to demonstrate this > > > > Doug > > > > > > > >

"TDRacin�" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:AWl%9.434$[email hidden]... : Only when a system is poorly maintained. But operated correctly, you won't find a 10-15% performance gain. When the OS is by Microsoft - it's poorly maintained from the day you install it Doug

On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 20:22:23 -0500, "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>"Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:g4j%9.5846$9u5.491617@wards... >> Anything like a CPU, Mobo, GFX card, Sound card - a change really requires >a >> reinstall of windows to eliminate any inapropriate drivers >> >Ridiculous.

The world would be a better place if freeBSD or linux were adopted as a gaming platform. That is all. Jason

Yeah .. windows sucks badly (any operating system that requires a registry is a bad bad joke) and thanks to mr gates' meglomaniac tendancies we cant use any of the better OS' about oh well dan "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 20:22:23 -0500, "Marc Collins" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >"Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:g4j%9.5846$9u5.491617@wards... > >> Anything like a CPU, Mobo, GFX card, Sound card - a change reallyrequires

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> >a > >> reinstall of windows to eliminate any inapropriate drivers > >> > >Ridiculous. > > The world would be a better place if freeBSD or linux were adopted as > a gaming platform. That is all. > > Jason

I found that by disabling "Fast writes" I gained 20 FPS.. "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Myj%9.748$[email hidden]... > Great explanation. > > I also had a similar interesting experience going from a GeForce2 GTS 64MB > to a 128 MB GeForce 4 8xAGP (Asus v9280). In some games, the fps rosequite > a bit. In GPL and NR2002, the fps was about the same, but I could run in32

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> bit with no impact and a few other little goodies also seemed to have no > effect, so basically, you got a bit better looks, but no higher fps. > > NR2003 can bring my system to it's knees just by enabling shadows. > > P4 2.0, 512 MB Rambus, etc. > > Marc > > > "Jay Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:vTi%9.2693$[email hidden]... > > I recently tested out a 9700 pro, and compared it to the 4600 I've been > > using for months. My system is a P4 2.53, with 1gig of PC1066 RDRAM. > > Anyway I found that the 9700 was about 10fps slower then the GeForce in > > OpenGL, however it was about 5-8 fps faster then the GF in D3D, which

was > > about the same FPS I was getting in Open GL on my geforce. I also tried > > disabling a bunch of things to see if I could get much of a FPSincrease,

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> > and I really couldn't up the frame rate at all. > > > > What I was running by default was 1600x1200x16 with 2x FSAA on, however > on > > the 9700 I was running 32 bit instead of 16 bit color, because I saw no > > performance difference. What I found was that I could turn on some > > anisotropic filtering, and get no lose of performance. Matter of fact I > > could run 4x FSAA, and 8x AF with little or no performance hit, these > > settings would have brought my Geforce 4 to its knees. The game looked > 10x > > better on the 9700 with these settings and ran as well in D3D, as I was > able > > to run the Geforce in OpenGL. So while you might not be able to get

much > > of a frame rate increase with the 9700 you shoukd be able to turn onalot

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> > more candy with out any lose. > > > > I did notice a much bigger performance increase in other games I tried, > like > > BF1942, and Ghost Recon. For some reason these types of games saw a big > > increase in frame rate with the 9700 pro, as aposed to NR2003 which saw > > different results. > > > > > > Jay Taylor > > > > > > > > > > > > "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:b1kcs8$14c8l1$[email hidden]... > > > Go through your settings and make sure things like 16x anisotropic > aren't > > > set on. Otherwise, there has to be remnants of your 4600 drivers still > > > hanging around. Did you install standard vga drivers before switching > > cards > > > or did you just install the ATI drivers right over the 4600 drivers?

If

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> > you > > > did it right and are still having a problem, you'll need to find a way > to > > > clean every bit of the 4600 drivers out of your system, including the > > > registry. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Slot > > > > > > Tweaks & Reviews > > > www.slottweak.com > > > > > > > > > > > > "Morris Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > So far very dissapointed in the 9700Pro, running the same settings

in

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> > > NR2002 > > > > and NR2003(everything on and maxed out in both) demo the FPS is avg. > > 8-10 > > > > less than the Ti4600 in opengl or d3d. > > > > Why? using the latest drivers I could find. 6.14.01.6255 > > > > I thought this card was suppose to faster than the Ti4600. > > > > Not looking good, on to more testing, but I'm not going to lower my > > > settings > > > > when the Ti4600 ran it fine with them. > > > > 1280x960x32 opengl and D3D. and the Ti4600 seems much faster in D3D

in

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> > the > > > > 2003 demo @ 1600x1200. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I gave up and took it back, not going to reformt my 120gig HD and loose all my stuff and still may or may not get the performace I was looking for. Think I give the Loud FX a card soon as it comes out. This was in fact the 2nd time I had bought the 9700Pro, bought it back when it first came out and gave up thinking it was driver issues at the time, I guess now it was not, maybe my system, don't know, but to format my HD is not an option. Thanks to all who tried to help, "Dan_Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b1lv9g$147ta1$[email hidden]...

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> Yeah .. windows sucks badly (any operating system that requires a registry > is a bad bad joke) and thanks to mr gates' meglomaniac tendancies we cant > use any of the better OS' about > oh well dan > "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 20:22:23 -0500, "Marc Collins" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >"Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >news:g4j%9.5846$9u5.491617@wards... > > >> Anything like a CPU, Mobo, GFX card, Sound card - a change really > requires > > >a > > >> reinstall of windows to eliminate any inapropriate drivers > > >> > > >Ridiculous. > > > > The world would be a better place if freeBSD or linux were adopted as > > a gaming platform. That is all. > > > > Jason > >

> Yeah .. windows sucks badly (any operating system that requires a registry > is a bad bad joke) and thanks to mr gates' meglomaniac tendancies we cant > use any of the better OS' about > oh well dan I dunno, I tried out Linux Mandrake 9.0 the other day. It seemed to be just as bloated and unreliable as Windows XP - probably more so. It also seems that the only software available for Linux is geekware.

You can reinstall Windows, I'll just make sure I clean up my old drivers. Marc "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_Uj%9.15587$pS2.592005@stones...

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> > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:dWj%9.5850$9u5.492438@wards... > > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:hvj%9.746$[email hidden]... > > > > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:g4j%9.5846$9u5.491617@wards... > > > > Anything like a CPU, Mobo, GFX card, Sound card - a change really > > requires > > > a > > > > reinstall of windows to eliminate any inapropriate drivers > > > > > > > Ridiculous. > > > > $5 says that if he hasnt reinstalled his OS by now - he'll have a > perormance > > improvement when he does > > Infact - I point you to the post "Ti4600 to a 9700Pro my story" thread

just

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> a few up from this... > > "So I figure I gained about 10-15% performance by reformatting and > re-installing Windows on a fresh install, so there probably was some left > over driver instances causing the slowdowns." > > He has quantitive values to demonstrate this > > Doug > > >

If you run defrag every other week, it suggests you don't know much about PC maintenance. Once a year should be adequate unless your system is a test slave having massive software installations and uninstallations occurring every day. Marc "Glen Pittman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Care to tell me what you think was poorly maintained on my system Tim?When

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> you follow the directions that are available for removing all drivers for > the Ti4600, and then install the ATI 9700Pro according to the available > instructions, I don't see where that is being poorly maintained.... > > If you are considering maybe defrag, or other "housecleaning issues" then > save your breathe. Defrag is automatically run on my system every other > week, and not the wimpy Windows version either. Diskkeeper is about the > best I have found, and the most reliable. > > So either explain your statement, or choose better wording please. > > > Glen Pittman > > > "TDRacin�" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:AWl%9.434$[email hidden]... > > Only when a system is poorly maintained. But operated correctly, you > won't find a 10-15% performance gain. > > > > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:_Uj%9.15587$pS2.592005@stones... > > > > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:dWj%9.5850$9u5.492438@wards... > > > > > > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:hvj%9.746$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:g4j%9.5846$9u5.491617@wards... > > > > > > Anything like a CPU, Mobo, GFX card, Sound card - a change

really

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> > > > requires > > > > > a > > > > > > reinstall of windows to eliminate any inapropriate drivers > > > > > > > > > > > Ridiculous. > > > > > > > > $5 says that if he hasnt reinstalled his OS by now - he'll have a > > > perormance > > > > improvement when he does > > > > > > Infact - I point you to the post "Ti4600 to a 9700Pro my story" thread > just > > > a few up from this... > > > > > > "So I figure I gained about 10-15% performance by reformatting and > > > re-installing Windows on a fresh install, so there probably was some > left > > > over driver instances causing the slowdowns." > > > > > > He has quantitive values to demonstrate this > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Once a year? Keep in mind that games ARE massive installations and unistallations. With 1-2 GB sizes being the norm nowadays, games are some of the largest programs available that you can put on your hard drive. Even Microsoft recommends performing a defrag before installing it's games. -Tim "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cDE%9.1316$[email hidden]... > If you run defrag every other week, it suggests you don't know much aboutPC

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> maintenance. Once a year should be adequate unless your system is a test > slave having massive software installations and uninstallations occurring > every day. > > Marc > > "Glen Pittman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Care to tell me what you think was poorly maintained on my system Tim? > When > > you follow the directions that are available for removing all drivers

for > > the Ti4600, and then install the ATI 9700Pro according to the available > > instructions, I don't see where that is being poorly maintained.... > > > > If you are considering maybe defrag, or other "housecleaning issues"then

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> > save your breathe. Defrag is automatically run on my system every other > > week, and not the wimpy Windows version either. Diskkeeper is about the > > best I have found, and the most reliable. > > > > So either explain your statement, or choose better wording please. > > > > > > Glen Pittman > > > > > > "TDRacin�" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:AWl%9.434$[email hidden]... > > > Only when a system is poorly maintained. But operated correctly, you > > won't find a 10-15% performance gain. > > > > > > > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:_Uj%9.15587$pS2.592005@stones... > > > > > > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:dWj%9.5850$9u5.492438@wards... > > > > > > > > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:hvj%9.746$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:g4j%9.5846$9u5.491617@wards... > > > > > > > Anything like a CPU, Mobo, GFX card, Sound card - a change > really > > > > > requires > > > > > > a > > > > > > > reinstall of windows to eliminate any inapropriate drivers > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ridiculous. > > > > > > > > > > $5 says that if he hasnt reinstalled his OS by now - he'll have a > > > > perormance > > > > > improvement when he does > > > > > > > > Infact - I point you to the post "Ti4600 to a 9700Pro my story"

thread

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> > just > > > > a few up from this... > > > > > > > > "So I figure I gained about 10-15% performance by reformatting and > > > > re-installing Windows on a fresh install, so there probably was some > > left > > > > over driver instances causing the slowdowns." > > > > > > > > He has quantitive values to demonstrate this > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

You know what Marc, I took your advice and decided that since my OS has only been installed for 2 days, there wasn't any need to defrag, so I only analyzed the disk. Seems you may be right, judging from this report generated by the Windows defrag utility (Haven't re-installed DiskKeeper yet). If this is only 2 days, then I can only imagine how a year would look.... Thanks for the advice, but I believe I will stick with my plan. Volume WINXP_2 (F:) Volume size = 21.00 GB Cluster size = 4 KB Used space = 6.33 GB Free space = 14.66 GB Percent free space = 69 % Volume fragmentation Total fragmentation = 14 % File fragmentation = 28 % Free space fragmentation = 0 % File fragmentation Total files = 29,450 Average file size = 254 KB Total fragmented files = 2,144 Total excess fragments = 10,325 Average fragments per file = 1.35 Pagefile fragmentation Pagefile size = 768 MB Total fragments = 1 Folder fragmentation Total folders = 1,919 Fragmented folders = 153 Excess folder fragments = 1,098 Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation Total MFT size = 31 MB MFT record count = 31,405 Percent MFT in use = 99 % Total MFT fragments = 51 "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cDE%9.1316$[email hidden]... > If you run defrag every other week, it suggests you don't know much aboutPC

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> maintenance. Once a year should be adequate unless your system is a test > slave having massive software installations and uninstallations occurring > every day. > > Marc > > "Glen Pittman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Care to tell me what you think was poorly maintained on my system Tim? > When > > you follow the directions that are available for removing all drivers

for > > the Ti4600, and then install the ATI 9700Pro according to the available > > instructions, I don't see where that is being poorly maintained.... > > > > If you are considering maybe defrag, or other "housecleaning issues"then

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> > save your breathe. Defrag is automatically run on my system every other > > week, and not the wimpy Windows version either. Diskkeeper is about the > > best I have found, and the most reliable. > > > > So either explain your statement, or choose better wording please. > > > > > > Glen Pittman > > > > > > "TDRacin�" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:AWl%9.434$[email hidden]... > > > Only when a system is poorly maintained. But operated correctly, you > > won't find a 10-15% performance gain. > > > > > > > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:_Uj%9.15587$pS2.592005@stones... > > > > > > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:dWj%9.5850$9u5.492438@wards... > > > > > > > > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:hvj%9.746$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:g4j%9.5846$9u5.491617@wards... > > > > > > > Anything like a CPU, Mobo, GFX card, Sound card - a change > really > > > > > requires > > > > > > a > > > > > > > reinstall of windows to eliminate any inapropriate drivers > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ridiculous. > > > > > > > > > > $5 says that if he hasnt reinstalled his OS by now - he'll have a > > > > perormance > > > > > improvement when he does > > > > > > > > Infact - I point you to the post "Ti4600 to a 9700Pro my story"

thread

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> > just > > > > a few up from this... > > > > > > > > "So I figure I gained about 10-15% performance by reformatting and > > > > re-installing Windows on a fresh install, so there probably was some > > left > > > > over driver instances causing the slowdowns." > > > > > > > > He has quantitive values to demonstrate this > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:44:07 +1000, "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I dunno, I tried out Linux Mandrake 9.0 the other day. It seemed to be just >as bloated and unreliable as Windows XP - probably more so. Mandrake is nothing more than Red Hat (itself bloated and buggy) with a lot of "ease of use" shit thrown on top of it. It's horrible. If you want a Linux that is easy to use but also rock very svelte and rock solid I recommend SuSE. I was a pretty hardcore Slackware and Debian user for awhile, because they're both free of bloat and great if you know you're way around the OS, but since switching my workstations to SuSE I can say I'd never really give another Linux distro a chance. Unlike Red Hat/Mandrake/Corel/etc the "ease of use" features don't significantly bloat the system and are essentially just a front end/editing system for standard configuration files instead of involving proprietary daemons such as linuxconf (in SuSE you can still edit things by hand without breaking anything and then go back and use the config tools again and it's completely seamless). Even better, the SuSE graphical utilities are not only well written but incredibly easy to use, possiblty more intuitive and user friendly than anything in the newer Windows distributions. As an added bonus, the newest versions include Racer as an optional package. > It also seems >that the only software available for Linux is geekware. Also Racer. =) I've heard conflicting reports of people getting GPL to run using Wine and OpenGL, but haven't really pursued it since I'm kinda stuck using Windows at home until the Xbox 2 destroys PC gaming for good. =p Really, tho, there is no reason to run Linux (or Solaris or BSDI or freeBSD) unless you're using it for some sort of scientific work. I stick to Sparc-Solaris and x86-freeBSD for server applications and SuSE Linux as a development and troubleshooting environment. At home it's Windows on both the gaming PC and the Dreamcast/Xbox. My cuirrent workstation at my office is running Windows 2000, and using it to do any real work is about as clumsy as trying to get a DirectX app running under any unix-based Windows emulator. Basically I spend my entire day in SecureCRT bouncing around screen sessions on various *nix boxes. Different tools for different jobs and all that. Jason

"Morris Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> I gave up and took it back, not going to reformt my 120gig HD and > loose all my stuff and still may or may not get the performace I was > looking for. Think I give the Loud FX a card soon as it comes out. > This was in fact the 2nd time I had bought the 9700Pro, bought it back > when it first came out and gave up thinking it was driver issues at > the time, I guess now it was not, maybe my system, don't know, but to > format my HD is not an option. >

Just erase the windows folders. Leave everything else alone. (make sure you have a working boot disk first.!!) dave henrie

"Morris Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I gave up and took it back, not going to reformt my 120gig HD and looseall > my stuff and still may or may not get the performace I was looking for. Fair enough - but why on EARTH do you have a 120 gig hard drive? I really dont understand people who have huge hard drives. Can you really afford to have 120 gig of stuff killed in one hard drive crash? Much better is to have say 2 60 gig hard drives You then have a back up caperbility, and redundency caperbility and an increased security level Doug

And progressively gets worse each time you use it too. :) Vintook "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b1lk0l$13pq72$[email hidden]...

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> > "TDRacin�" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:AWl%9.434$[email hidden]... > : Only when a system is poorly maintained. But operated correctly, you > won't find a 10-15% performance gain. > > When the OS is by Microsoft - it's poorly maintained from the day you > install it > > Doug > >

"Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:g4j%9.5846$9u5.491617@wards... > > > Have you reinstalled windows since the change of card? > > Anything like a CPU, Mobo, GFX card, Sound card - a change really requiresa > reinstall of windows to eliminate any inapropriate drivers Talk about overkill!!! That's like saying your engine needs to be pulled down when you change the exhaust. If people are careful to remove old drivers as well as the device from device manager before installing the new card, there should be no problems at all. KK

"Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_Uj%9.15587$pS2.592005@stones... > > Infact - I point you to the post "Ti4600 to a 9700Pro my story" threadjust

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> a few up from this... > > "So I figure I gained about 10-15% performance by reformatting and > re-installing Windows on a fresh install, so there probably was some left > over driver instances causing the slowdowns." > > He has quantitive values to demonstrate this

So what??? There are utilities that are available specifically to remove old vid card drivers... not that most people should even need to resort to that if they know how to change hardware in Windows. KK

"Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b1lk0l$13pq72$[email hidden]...

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> > "TDRacin�" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:AWl%9.434$[email hidden]... > : Only when a system is poorly maintained. But operated correctly, you > won't find a 10-15% performance gain. > > When the OS is by Microsoft - it's poorly maintained from the day you > install it

So don't use it. Good luck getting half of these games running under emulation in linux. KK

"Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 20:22:23 -0500, "Marc Collins" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >"Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:g4j%9.5846$9u5.491617@wards... > >> Anything like a CPU, Mobo, GFX card, Sound card - a change reallyrequires

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> >a > >> reinstall of windows to eliminate any inapropriate drivers > >> > >Ridiculous. > > The world would be a better place if freeBSD or linux were adopted as > a gaming platform. That is all.

How so? Would professional programmers devote their time/effort to a free project to the same extent as they do when they're being payed to? I would have thought that gaming on linux would be huge by now, but I don't see anyone rushing to the task. KK

Kasper Kowalski wrote:

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> "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:g4j%9.5846$9u5.491617@wards... > >> >>Have you reinstalled windows since the change of card? >> >>Anything like a CPU, Mobo, GFX card, Sound card - a change really requires > > a > >>reinstall of windows to eliminate any inapropriate drivers > > > Talk about overkill!!! That's like saying your engine needs to be pulled > down when you change the exhaust. > > If people are careful to remove old drivers as well as the device from > device manager before installing the new card, there should be no problems > at all. > > KK > >

Hehe, it's only Doug talking shite again. :) Reinstalling windows after a MoBo change is fair enough, but saying you need to do it for a sound card GFX swop out is a load of bollocks. -- Gerry Aitken ...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer. - Book of Cyril, chapter 6, verse 16 This e-mail has been scanned for all known viruses by a fish called Colin.

"Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Kasper Kowalski wrote: > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:g4j%9.5846$9u5.491617@wards... > > > >> > >>Have you reinstalled windows since the change of card? > >> > >>Anything like a CPU, Mobo, GFX card, Sound card - a change really

requires

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> > > > a > > > >>reinstall of windows to eliminate any inapropriate drivers > > > > > > Talk about overkill!!! That's like saying your engine needs to be pulled > > down when you change the exhaust. > > > > If people are careful to remove old drivers as well as the device from > > device manager before installing the new card, there should be no

problems

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> > at all. > > > > KK > > > > > > > Hehe, it's only Doug talking shite again. :) > > Reinstalling windows after a MoBo change is fair enough, but saying you > need to do it for a sound card GFX swop out is a load of bollocks. >

Agreed. I think anyone with even a moderate amount of PC knowledge dismisses the ridiculous claim that an OS reinstall is requred when changing a video card or sound card. OS reinstall when changing the CPU? Either the guy is just fishing or a complete dumbass.

Kevin Webb wrote: > > > Agreed. I think anyone with even a moderate amount of PC knowledge > dismisses the ridiculous claim that an OS reinstall is requred when changing > a video card or sound card. OS reinstall when changing the CPU? Either the > guy is just fishing or a complete dumbass. In normal cases I'd agree with you, but there's enough evidence around to support the fact that a lot of people have seen a huge performance increase by reinstalling the OS when going from nVidia cards to ATI cards, even from experienced PC users, so while I don't support the theory that you need to reinstall your OS for every little hardware change, I don't dismiss that you might need it in this particular case Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:38:26 GMT, Kasper Kowalski wrote: > > How so? Would professional programmers devote their time/effort to a free > project to the same extent as they do when they're being payed to? I would > have thought that gaming on linux would be huge by now, but I don't see > anyone rushing to the task. Yeah, too bad LokiSoft went belly up, but I guess they were a couple of years ahead of their times. Linux is catching on well on the corporate & administrative desktops at the moment, and this environment also once served to set a standard for home pc's. The next couple of years might be interesting when it comes to breathing life into gaming on Linux again, who knows? Cheers, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Goy Larsen wrote:

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> > Kevin Webb wrote: > >> >>Agreed. I think anyone with even a moderate amount of PC knowledge >>dismisses the ridiculous claim that an OS reinstall is requred when changing >>a video card or sound card. OS reinstall when changing the CPU? Either the >>guy is just fishing or a complete dumbass. > > > In normal cases I'd agree with you, but there's enough evidence around > to support the fact that a lot of people have seen a huge performance > increase by reinstalling the OS when going from nVidia cards to ATI

Well I didn't have any trouble, but then i did prepare well. > cards, even from experienced PC users, so while I don't support the > theory that you need to reinstall your OS for every little hardware > change, I don't dismiss that you might need it in this particular case I think we all agree that if windows gets fucked up, a reinstall is in order. But wait -until- it's fucked up, I say. I bet Doug reboots every time he moves the mouse! -- Gerry Aitken ...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer. - Book of Cyril, chapter 6, verse 16 This e-mail has been scanned for all known viruses by a fish called Colin.

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:36:03 GMT, Kasper Kowalski wrote: > > So don't use it. Good luck getting half of these games running under > emulation in linux. The two most important titles (GPL and N2003) work well under WineX in OpenGL. Ridcully has written a great FAQ on how to them running. Cheers, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61