N2003: new physics are great! Watkins Glen is a blast!

Man am I impressed with the new driving model, these cars are actually driveable on the road courses they feel like bad ass race cars instead of station wagons now. What kind of times are you guys getting at Watkins Glen? I have just broken (barely) 1:16:50 with the Jasper setup with the steering modified to 16:1 just like the fast setup. There is more speed there, I just have a few corners to work out, especially the 1st one! Anyone have any tips for a quick in and out for turn 1? Joe

I've been able to run consistant 1:15.0 -1:15.1 (very slightly modified fast setup) T1 is tricky though, just gotta figure out a good braking point that'll put you at just the right speed. Take advantage of the bigger brakes. :) Use them to the max, but dont lock them. TK "Joe Saxon" <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> wrote in message news:b24nn4$3ci$[email hidden]... > Man am I impressed with the new driving model, these cars are actually > driveable on the road courses they feel like bad ass race cars instead of > station wagons now. What kind of times are you guys getting at WatkinsGlen? > I have just broken (barely) 1:16:50 with the Jasper setup with thesteering > modified to 16:1 just like the fast setup. There is more speed there, Ijust > have a few corners to work out, especially the 1st one! Anyone have anytips > for a quick in and out for turn 1? > > Joe > >

Joe... The "key" to T-1 at Watkins is to brake earlier than the normal distance (from braking point to turn-in point) would normally call for (based on your terminal speed down the straight). Why? Because its downhill. That will allow you to get the car turned in nicely and you should be back to almost full-throttle even before the turn's apex. That's good for an extra 2 mph to 5 mph all the way down into T-2....and potentially up through the esses on to the back straight. All of which will combine to lower your lap time a lot (maybe by a full second even). Of course, that would be the hotlapping or qualification line......don't use it in a race because it leaves the door open for two bad things to happen: 1) You are too close to the left side of the track and when your car starts to wander slightly under the braking load...its too easy to "drop a wheel" and your race is over. Or, 2) It leaves the door open for someone behind you to easily outbrake you into the turn.....on an inside line and block your turn-in....even if they don't pass you coming out of T-1....they'll likely have position on you into T-2......both cases mean you get passed easily. In a race......stay just left of the track's centerline...when entering T-1....you'll have a lot more success that way. And by the way, don't worry so much about how you match up......best lap to best lap.....with others so much. They don't give you trophies for fast lap....only for being on the podium. Do you even remember who had the fastest lap at last year's Watkins (WC) race? I don't. But, I do remember who won that race.....bet you do too! See what I mean? Regards, Tom "Joe Saxon" <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> wrote in message news:b24nn4$3ci$[email hidden]... > Man am I impressed with the new driving model, these cars are actually > driveable on the road courses they feel like bad ass race cars instead of > station wagons now. What kind of times are you guys getting at WatkinsGlen? > I have just broken (barely) 1:16:50 with the Jasper setup with thesteering > modified to 16:1 just like the fast setup. There is more speed there, Ijust > have a few corners to work out, especially the 1st one! Anyone have anytips > for a quick in and out for turn 1? > > Joe > >

Did the guy have the fastest lap as well? ;-) Achim "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:O2o1a.46370$[email hidden]... ... > Do you even remember who had the fastest lap at last year's > Watkins (WC) race? I don't. But, I do remember > who won that race.....bet you do too!

On Sun, 9 Feb 2003 00:08:07 -0500, "Joe Saxon" <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> wrote:

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>Man am I impressed with the new driving model, these cars are actually >driveable on the road courses they feel like bad ass race cars instead of >station wagons now. What kind of times are you guys getting at Watkins Glen? >I have just broken (barely) 1:16:50 with the Jasper setup with the steering >modified to 16:1 just like the fast setup. There is more speed there, I just >have a few corners to work out, especially the 1st one! Anyone have any tips >for a quick in and out for turn 1?

1:15.6 with the Jasper setup. A bit sloppy tho, and my tires would be gone within 3 laps driving like that. Driving smoothly I'm about where you are, which is still faster than I was in N4/N2002 so I can't complain. The additional downforce makes the game a great deal more enjoyable and challenging for me so far. The cars really push into the track like you'd expect but go too far and you're backing into the fence. Very nice. Also the Jasper setups may suck for setting fast laptimes (I'm generally faster in the Fast setups) but they are awesome for racing against the AI. I've had 10 lap battles with the AI at places like Bristol where I was able to hold the outside line and still make the car turn. The Jasper setups seem to be a few tenths slower vs the fast setups (I blame that mostly on right foot shrinkage) but I seem to be able to put them anywhere on the track and get similar laptimes, high/low/wherever. At Bristol for instance I'm running a normal 15.8-15.9 with the fast setup driving a normal line but a 16.1 with the Jasper setup either with a normal line or while staying a full car width above the apron all the way around the track. Jason

On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 08:11:26 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote: >And by the way, don't worry so much about how you match up......best lap to >best lap.....with others so much. They don't give you trophies for fast >lap....only for being on the podium. Do you even remember who had the >fastest lap at last year's Watkins (WC) race? I don't. But, I do remember >who won that race.....bet you do too! See what I mean? You know I honestly can't remember. All I remember is Jerry Nadeau leading late during one of the RC races in the 44 before the engine let go (think that was Sears Point tho). Jason

On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 14:17:14 GMT, [email hidden] (Jason Moyer) wrote: >1:15.6 with the Jasper setup. A bit sloppy tho, and my tires would be >gone within 3 laps driving like that. Driving smoothly I'm about >where you are, which is still faster than I was in N4/N2002 so I can't >complain. Hm ok, loaded the fast setup and did a 1:14.8 on the second lap, which included at least 2 crap corners. I'm guessing there will be guys doing 11's and 12's no problem there. Jason

"Joe Saxon" wrote: > Man am I impressed with the new driving model, these cars are actually > driveable on the road courses they feel like bad ass race cars instead of > station wagons now. Still feel like an armoured plated 3 seater BRM with Mr & Mrs Obese on board for me. I really don't see this as the defacto road course sim to assign GPL & GTR2002 to the recycle bin. It does it right - simulates Nascars on a road course. I end up feeling sorry for the drivers. On board they are working as hard (probably harder) than any other race series on a road course. Outside it looks like a convoy of limos late for the wedding... All IMHO of course! Cheers Tony

The thing that always makes me feel kind of good about this is that when Nascar brings in "ringers" like Boris Said to drive the road courses, they typically don't do so well. Given Boris's record in his own series one certainly cannot accuse him of not knowing how to drive road courses. So when you drive the Glen in NR 2003 and it feels like crap, that's probably because it does in real life, too. "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gjx1a.4832$[email hidden]... > > Still feel like an armoured plated 3 seater BRM with Mr & Mrs Obese onboard for > me. > > I really don't see this as the defacto road course sim to assign GPL &GTR2002 > to the recycle bin. It does it right - simulates Nascars on a road course.I end > up feeling sorry for the drivers. On board they are working as hard(probably > harder) than any other race series on a road course. Outside it looks likea

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> convoy of limos late for the wedding... > > All IMHO of course! > > Cheers > Tony > >

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:b26jjg$18kj4c$[email hidden]:

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> The thing that always makes me feel kind of good about this is that > when Nascar brings in "ringers" like Boris Said to drive the road > courses, they typically don't do so well. Given Boris's record in his > own series one certainly cannot accuse him of not knowing how to drive > road courses. So when you drive the Glen in NR 2003 and it feels like > crap, that's probably because it does in real life, too. >

Ahh but if Boris would get a ride in a Gibbs or Hendrick or Rousch car, then I think you'd see his worth. I saw him race a near bone stock mustang and he was alllllll over the track...one of the most dynamic track assualts I have ever seen. Quite fun watching. dave henrie

On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 22:17:47 GMT, Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote: > Ahh but if Boris would get a ride in a Gibbs or Hendrick or Rousch car, >then I think you'd see his worth. I saw him race a near bone stock >mustang and he was alllllll over the track...one of the most dynamic track >assualts I have ever seen. Quite fun watching. Is Boris actually running a longer schedule this year or did they just include his car in N2003 because of the Jasper connection? Jason

[email hidden] > Is Boris actually running a longer schedule this year or did they just > include his car in N2003 because of the Jasper connection? > > Jason As far as I know, Trans Am is still his main focus. dh

Dave Henrie wrote: > [email hidden] > >>Is Boris actually running a longer schedule this year or did they just >>include his car in N2003 because of the Jasper connection? I would guess he's there for filler. Haven't read what his or Jasper's plans are. > As far as I know, Trans Am is still his main focus. And/or Tom Milner's factory M3 effort in World Challenge GT. -jde

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>The "key" to T-1 at Watkins is to brake earlier than the normal distance >(from braking point to turn-in point) would normally call for (based on your >terminal speed down the straight). Why? Because its downhill. That will >allow you to get the car turned in nicely and you should be back to almost >full-throttle even before the turn's apex. That's good for an extra 2 mph >to 5 mph all the way down into T-2....and potentially up through the esses >on to the back straight.

How so? If you have to feather the throttle as you enter T-2 (to get on the throttle fully as soon as possible for the back straight), how is exit speed from T-1 carried further? While I agree that you need to consider the downhill slope in braking and that getting a good drive off T-1 is important, so is carrying all the speed you can down the front straight. It seems to me that T-1 is a balanced turn - you need to have a good entrance and a good exit, not sacrifice one for the other.

I typically find better balance on the grass in T1 :) Larry <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >The "key" to T-1 at Watkins is to brake earlier than the normal distance > >(from braking point to turn-in point) would normally call for (based onyour > >terminal speed down the straight). Why? Because its downhill. Thatwill > >allow you to get the car turned in nicely and you should be back toalmost > >full-throttle even before the turn's apex. That's good for an extra 2mph > >to 5 mph all the way down into T-2....and potentially up through theesses

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> >on to the back straight. > > How so? If you have to feather the throttle as you enter T-2 > (to get on the throttle fully as soon as possible for the back > straight), how is exit speed from T-1 carried further? > > While I agree that you need to consider the downhill slope in > braking and that getting a good drive off T-1 is important, so is > carrying all the speed you can down the front straight. It seems to > me that T-1 is a balanced turn - you need to have a good entrance and > a good exit, not sacrifice one for the other.

On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 01:47:29 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: > While I agree that you need to consider the downhill slope in >braking and that getting a good drive off T-1 is important, so is >carrying all the speed you can down the front straight. It seems to >me that T-1 is a balanced turn - you need to have a good entrance and >a good exit, not sacrifice one for the other. I'd go further and say entrance speed in T1 is more important than exit speed. You can make up even the crappiest of exist in T1 by simply staying on the gas a little deeper into 2. The big keys IMHO to a fast lap at Watkins Glen are not lifting through the esses and getting the power down early out of the last turn. I find if I so much as feather the throttle slightly through the esses I lose a full second or more. Jason

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Jason Moyer) writes: >The big keys IMHO to a fast lap at Watkins Glen are not lifting >through the esses and getting the power down early out of the last >turn. I find if I so much as feather the throttle slightly through >the esses I lose a full second or more. Not lifting?!? For me, that would be a recipe for eating the wall... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 MonsterRank: +339.873 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Yeah, I've been wondering how this guy goes through the SS's without lifting. I don't see that happening. Joe "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden](Jason

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> Moyer) writes: > > >The big keys IMHO to a fast lap at Watkins Glen are not lifting > >through the esses and getting the power down early out of the last > >turn. I find if I so much as feather the throttle slightly through > >the esses I lose a full second or more. > > Not lifting?!? For me, that would be a recipe for eating the wall... > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:-0.381 > MonsterRank: +339.873 > N2002 Rank:+17.59 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 15 Feb 2003 20:57:55 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >Not lifting?!? For me, that would be a recipe for eating the wall... Not lifting through the last left/right bit really is what I meant. I feather through turn 2 right, trying to keep the car as far right as possible, then once i'm straightened out and near the right curbing it's full throttle and as straight of a line as possilbe through the esses. Generally I exit turn 4 right at around 160mph in n2003. Speed down the 3 longest straights at WG imho is the best way to turn fast laps, and that means flat out through 3 and 4, on the gas early out of the outer loop, and on the gas early using the full width of the runoff area out of the last turn. Jason

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Jason Moyer) writes:

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>On 15 Feb 2003 20:57:55 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >>Not lifting?!? For me, that would be a recipe for eating the wall... > >Not lifting through the last left/right bit really is what I meant. I >feather through turn 2 right, trying to keep the car as far right as >possible, then once i'm straightened out and near the right curbing >it's full throttle and as straight of a line as possilbe through the >esses. Generally I exit turn 4 right at around 160mph in n2003.

If I remember correctly from N2k2, I normally exit T4 at about 140... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 MonsterRank: +339.873 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" wrote... > <snip> > If I remember correctly from N2k2, I normally exit T4 at about > 140... On new tyres... <g> Jan. =---

On new tyres... <g> Jan. =---

In article <FmA3a.53798$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: >"EldredP" wrote... >> <snip> >> If I remember correctly from N2k2, I normally exit T4 at about >> 140... > >On new tyres... <g> Your point being...? :-) Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 MonsterRank: +339.873 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:22:50 -0500, "Joe Saxon" <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> wrote: >Yeah, I've been wondering how this guy goes through the SS's without >lifting. I don't see that happening. Here's an example of the benefits of going flat out through the esses: http://firebrand11.stargate.net/N2003/ I completely blew every other corner on the track (nearly took out the armco at turn 1 even) and still managed a 1:14.8. 70 degrees, no wind, either the Jasper or fast setup (forget which). Jason

I thought you meant all three corners that make up the S's, not just the last two. I can go flat through there but I have other issues to deal with! From what I can tell, if I can nail turn 1, I'll be doing well. I have gotten down to the mid 1:15's now and I think I can nail turn 1 and the right hander after the back straight and I'll be in the 1:14's. thanks for the replay though!! I will study it to work on my turn 1. Joe "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:22:50 -0500, "Joe Saxon" > <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> wrote: > > >Yeah, I've been wondering how this guy goes through the SS's without > >lifting. I don't see that happening. > > Here's an example of the benefits of going flat out through the esses: > > http://firebrand11.stargate.net/N2003/ > > I completely blew every other corner on the track (nearly took out the > armco at turn 1 even) and still managed a 1:14.8. 70 degrees, no > wind, either the Jasper or fast setup (forget which). > > Jason

On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 23:48:42 -0500, "Joe Saxon" <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> wrote: >I thought you meant all three corners that make up the S's, not just the >last two. I can go flat through there but I have other issues to deal with! >From what I can tell, if I can nail turn 1, I'll be doing well. I have >gotten down to the mid 1:15's now and I think I can nail turn 1 and the >right hander after the back straight and I'll be in the 1:14's. thanks for >the replay though!! I will study it to work on my turn 1. Heh, like I said, I don't think it's a good replay for learning the turns other than 3/4. If you look at my exit from 1 I'm halfway into the grass and about an inch from the armco (which incidentally I've hit way too many times headon so far, I don't remember it being so damn close to the track last year). Jason

In article <b2n57c$ais$[email hidden]>, "Joe Saxon" <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> writes:

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>I thought you meant all three corners that make up the S's, not just the >last two. I can go flat through there but I have other issues to deal with! >From what I can tell, if I can nail turn 1, I'll be doing well. I have >gotten down to the mid 1:15's now and I think I can nail turn 1 and the >right hander after the back straight and I'll be in the 1:14's. thanks for >the replay though!! I will study it to work on my turn 1. >

How do those times compare with N2002? I think I ran a 1:19(once) in that program... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 MonsterRank: +339.873 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" wrote... > Your point being...? :-) My point being that, from my personal experience, 140mph is an optimistic description of your exit speed from the Esses at Watkins Glen in N2k2. Seeing as I usually apex the last turn of said series at about 145mph and tripped over you on several occasions. <g> Which, on the whole, is no slant on your ability as a simracer (sentence added on account of recent humbling at Silverstone in GPL ;-)). Jan. =---

In article <rFW3a.56331$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>"EldredP" wrote... >> Your point being...? :-) > >My point being that, from my personal experience, 140mph is an optimistic >description of your exit speed from the Esses at Watkins Glen in N2k2. >Seeing as I usually apex the last turn of said series at about 145mph and >tripped over you on several occasions. <g> > >Which, on the whole, is no slant on your ability as a simracer (sentence >added on account of recent humbling at Silverstone in GPL ;-)). >

Jan, we BOTH got humbled in that race. I was 3rd, and a lap down to 2nd... At least you stayed within a lap of ME... I couldn't even catch the draft when they went by me. Never saw another car besides that, didn't pass anyone. That was one boring f'king race... That's why I left so quick - nothing to talk about. :-( Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 MonsterRank: +339.873 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" wrote...

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> <snip> > Jan, we BOTH got humbled in that race. I was 3rd, > and a lap down to 2nd... At least you stayed > within a lap of ME... > I couldn't even catch the draft when they went by > me. Never saw another car besides that, didn't > pass anyone. That was one boring f'king race... > That's why I left so quick - nothing to talk > about. :-(

I did my level best to make it "interesting" for you, but I couldn't put a dent in your lead. Made a couple of little mistakes/half spins later and that's all she wrote. You really ran a very good race there Eldred. Pascal Desjardins is an alien, so he doesn't count and Art had an inspired day. He's usually no threat past 1/3rd distance. Our problem is there's not enough guys in our speed brackett who can finish a race like that. And of those few, not enough run in GPVL FL. ;-)) Jan. =---

>Our problem is there's not enough guys in our speed brackett who can finish >a race like that. And of those few, not enough run in GPVL FL. ;-)) > Well, why not?!? We need some more slowpokes...<g> For me, more than you. You're normally way ahead of me - you just had a bad race. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 MonsterRank: +339.873 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Well I've been working on my times and finally broke 1:15!! I know, not a big deal to some, but I have been working hard and knocked a 1/2 a second off my time in one chunk. I have been working on turn 1 and also my speed through the chicane and the 2nd to the last turn.. It was a 1:14:9, but I know I can shave off of that as well. Great game, I'm really enjoying learning how to drive the ovals as well, I've been practicing Rockingham with the full field and it's a blast!! Joe "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 23:48:42 -0500, "Joe Saxon" > <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> wrote: > > >I thought you meant all three corners that make up the S's, not just the > >last two. I can go flat through there but I have other issues to dealwith! > >From what I can tell, if I can nail turn 1, I'll be doing well. I have > >gotten down to the mid 1:15's now and I think I can nail turn 1 and the > >right hander after the back straight and I'll be in the 1:14's. thanksfor

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> >the replay though!! I will study it to work on my turn 1. > > Heh, like I said, I don't think it's a good replay for learning the > turns other than 3/4. If you look at my exit from 1 I'm halfway into > the grass and about an inch from the armco (which incidentally I've > hit way too many times headon so far, I don't remember it being so > damn close to the track last year). > > Jason

Cool, just knocked it down to a 1:14:445! Joe "Joe Saxon" <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> wrote in message news:b2skbj$h02$[email hidden]...

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> Well I've been working on my times and finally broke 1:15!! I know, not a > big deal to some, but I have been working hard and knocked a 1/2 a second > off my time in one chunk. I have been working on turn 1 and also my speed > through the chicane and the 2nd to the last turn.. It was a 1:14:9, but I > know I can shave off of that as well. Great game, I'm really enjoying > learning how to drive the ovals as well, I've been practicing Rockingham > with the full field and it's a blast!! > > Joe > > > "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 23:48:42 -0500, "Joe Saxon" > > <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> wrote: > > > > >I thought you meant all three corners that make up the S's, not just

the

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> > >last two. I can go flat through there but I have other issues to deal > with! > > >From what I can tell, if I can nail turn 1, I'll be doing well. I have > > >gotten down to the mid 1:15's now and I think I can nail turn 1 and the > > >right hander after the back straight and I'll be in the 1:14's. thanks > for > > >the replay though!! I will study it to work on my turn 1. > > > > Heh, like I said, I don't think it's a good replay for learning the > > turns other than 3/4. If you look at my exit from 1 I'm halfway into > > the grass and about an inch from the armco (which incidentally I've > > hit way too many times headon so far, I don't remember it being so > > damn close to the track last year). > > > > Jason > >

[email hidden] > If I remember correctly from N2k2, I normally exit T4 at about 140... > > Eldred If "I" remember correctly....uhmmmmm what were we talking about again??? dave henrie