After N2003, LFS feels like an arcade game.

I'd have to say that N2003 is easily the most satisfying racing game ive played in a long time. I think its a combination of the best physics, graphics and by a long long way, the best AI in any racing game. Going back and having a drive of lfs really made me appreciate the quality and accuracy of the N2003 physics engine. I still cant believe how well the AI behave, 3 wide coming out of T4 at atlanta was quite fun i must say.. that happened quite a few times without any wrecks. Top work guys! Luke

LFS needs new cars and tracks BAD! I think a lot of us have become a bit bored. I still will buy it when complete. It's a nice piece of work. Larry "Luke Phillips" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XYa2a.14856$[email hidden]... > I'd have to say that N2003 is easily the most satisfying racing game ive > played in a long time. I think its a combination of the best physics, > graphics and by a long long way, the best AI in any racing game. Goingback > and having a drive of lfs really made me appreciate the quality andaccuracy > of the N2003 physics engine. I still cant believe how well the AI behave,3

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> wide coming out of T4 at atlanta was quite fun i must say.. that happened > quite a few times without any wrecks. Top work guys! > > Luke > > >

Absolutley, im not saying thats its not a great game at all, just that N2003 is really awesome... Luke "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:pmb2a.28824$[email hidden]...

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> LFS needs new cars and tracks BAD! I think a lot of us have become a bit > bored. > > I still will buy it when complete. It's a nice piece of work. > > Larry > > "Luke Phillips" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:XYa2a.14856$[email hidden]... > > I'd have to say that N2003 is easily the most satisfying racing game ive > > played in a long time. I think its a combination of the best physics, > > graphics and by a long long way, the best AI in any racing game. Going > back > > and having a drive of lfs really made me appreciate the quality and > accuracy > > of the N2003 physics engine. I still cant believe how well the AI

behave, > 3 > > wide coming out of T4 at atlanta was quite fun i must say.. thathappened

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> > quite a few times without any wrecks. Top work guys! > > > > Luke > > > > > > > >

> Absolutley, im not saying thats its not a great game at all, just thatN2003 > is really awesome... I think that the grip/downforce realism has improved dramatically since N2002 and it leaves GPL in the dust but it still feels unrealistic after playing GTR 2002.

Luke Phillips wrote:

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> I'd have to say that N2003 is easily the most satisfying racing game ive > played in a long time. I think its a combination of the best physics, > graphics and by a long long way, the best AI in any racing game. Going back > and having a drive of lfs really made me appreciate the quality and accuracy > of the N2003 physics engine. I still cant believe how well the AI behave, 3 > wide coming out of T4 at atlanta was quite fun i must say.. that happened > quite a few times without any wrecks. Top work guys! > > Luke

Tactically, the AI is fine, and well able to deal with even three wide racing. Strategically it is a different story, as I can't get them to draft with me in a straight line for more than a lap or two, which of course leads to lots of three wide racing, which I find incredibly draining mentally (tho fun in a Marquis de Sade sort of way). John DiFool -- ============================================ Reach heaven far too high ============================================

Always felt like an arcade game to me, before and after N2003. N2003 just pounded it even further in the dirt. Someone mentioned GTR2002. Were you serious? Gimmie a break. Much ado about nothing with that mod. "Luke Phillips" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XYa2a.14856$[email hidden]... > I'd have to say that N2003 is easily the most satisfying racing game ive > played in a long time. I think its a combination of the best physics, > graphics and by a long long way, the best AI in any racing game. Goingback > and having a drive of lfs really made me appreciate the quality andaccuracy > of the N2003 physics engine. I still cant believe how well the AI behave,3

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> wide coming out of T4 at atlanta was quite fun i must say.. that happened > quite a few times without any wrecks. Top work guys! > > Luke > > >

"Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Always felt like an arcade game to me, before and after N2003. N2003 just > pounded it even further in the dirt. Someone mentioned GTR2002. Were you > serious? Gimmie a break. Much ado about nothing with that mod. > > Yeah, EVERYONE is wrong about that one. You figured it out, thanks for letting us know we have been fooled by a substandard add-on. I'm going to stop driving it immediately on the strength of your detailed and well reasoned critique. ;0) -- Joe M.

"Joe M." Much ado about nothing with that >> mod. >> Yes it is a mod with weaknesses, and yes Nr2k3 is not 100% serious. But what would you recomend in place of these? dave henrie

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Joe M." Much ado about nothing with that > >> mod. > >> > Yes it is a mod with weaknesses, and yes Nr2k3 is not 100% serious.But > what would you recomend in place of these? > dave henrie You're replying to the wrong guy Dave. I love GTR 2002, I was just being my sarcastic self. -- Joe M.

GTR2002 is "ok" but it's still EA's F1 engine underneath. -Larry "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Always felt like an arcade game to me, before and after N2003. N2003 just > pounded it even further in the dirt. Someone mentioned GTR2002. Were you > serious? Gimmie a break. Much ado about nothing with that mod. > > > "Luke Phillips" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:XYa2a.14856$[email hidden]... > > I'd have to say that N2003 is easily the most satisfying racing game ive > > played in a long time. I think its a combination of the best physics, > > graphics and by a long long way, the best AI in any racing game. Going > back > > and having a drive of lfs really made me appreciate the quality and > accuracy > > of the N2003 physics engine. I still cant believe how well the AI

behave, > 3 > > wide coming out of T4 at atlanta was quite fun i must say.. thathappened

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> > quite a few times without any wrecks. Top work guys! > > > > Luke > > > > > > > >

"Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> "Joe M." Much ado about nothing with that >> >> mod. >> >> >> Yes it is a mod with weaknesses, and yes Nr2k3 is not 100% >> serious. > But >> what would you recomend in place of these? >> dave henrie > > You're replying to the wrong guy Dave. I love GTR 2002, I was just > being my sarcastic self. > > -- > Joe M. > >

Sorry Joe. I was hopin Kevin was smart enough to keep reading through a thread and brave enough to give us his opinion. I am interested in what sim he feels is NOT an arcade product. dave henrie

> GTR2002 is "ok" but it's still EA's F1 engine underneath. Actually it's ISI's engine. Your point being?

Brave? What's bravery got to do with it? IMO, GTR2002 is weak. There was a thread that was talking about the sound being very different with different soundcards and perhaps that's a factor. The sound on my Theatre XP is horrible. Having said that, it seems Papy hasn't perfected their hissing problem with N2003 either but the sound is still pretty good if you overlook that. In answer to your question about which are not arcade games. None of them. But the closest thing in my mind to making me dissolve into the game has been the nascar series. GPL was excellent as well but I am a round track guy and my bias lies there, without apology. I just have never got the GTR2002 thing. Ran it for about a week after hearing folks go on and on about it, really trying to see what the hype was about and never got it. It has nothing to do with bravery man. This is all opinion and I sure as hell don't live in this newsgroup. I am posting the first time I have a chance after seeing replies to my post. To each his own and knock yourself out there Joe. Frankly I don't think it's such a substandard add-on really if you judge the add-on by the original game. It improves on the original but that isn't saying much to me. Anyways, don't get all pissy. It's just one guys .2 cents which is all anything is worth on usenet. "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > >> "Joe M." Much ado about nothing with that > >> >> mod. > >> >> > >> Yes it is a mod with weaknesses, and yes Nr2k3 is not 100% > >> serious. > > But > >> what would you recomend in place of these? > >> dave henrie > > > > You're replying to the wrong guy Dave. I love GTR 2002, I was just > > being my sarcastic self. > > > > -- > > Joe M. > > > > > Sorry Joe. > > I was hopin Kevin was smart enough to keep reading through a thread and > brave enough to give us his opinion. I am interested in what sim he feels > is NOT an arcade product. > dave henrie

> but that isn't saying much to me. Anyways, don't get all pissy. It'sjust > one guys .2 cents which is all anything is worth on usenet. So your argument isn't even worth 2 cents? ;) You don't like road racing so GTR 2002 is weak. Riiight. I hate oval racing with a passion but I still think N2003 is a good sim - just not one I'm interested in.

"Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > Brave? What's bravery got to do with it? IMO, GTR2002 is weak. Noted....what products are superior to N2k3(Papyrus) and the GTR mod at this time? I'm not trying to be pissy..I'm trying to find out what you think are good sims... dave henrie

I don't like road course racing but I thought GPL was superb, just not something I'm interested in. GTR2002 on the other hand didnt offer much of anything to me. Physics, graphics or sound. And yeah, my .2 cents as an argument is worthless. Good thing I am not arguing. ;) It's all conjecture and opinion is the point, though for some odd reason people take a differing opinion as if they were being spit on in the street. Amusing. "Redmist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b2f41m$1bvs8l$[email hidden]...

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> > but that isn't saying much to me. Anyways, don't get all pissy. It's > just > > one guys .2 cents which is all anything is worth on usenet. > > So your argument isn't even worth 2 cents? ;) > > You don't like road racing so GTR 2002 is weak. Riiight. I hate oval > racing with a passion but I still think N2003 is a good sim - just not one > I'm interested in. > >

Well since the only thing I play anymore is Papy Nascar sims it's a pretty short list. Tried GP4, F1 and the mod. LFS (better than GTR2002 to me), and some of the rally games. None could I really suspend belief enough to enjoy past the honeymoon stage. Besides N2003, Links (golf) is something that I can enjoy and dissolve into rather well. Ultimately, at 35, I find myself spending less and less time playing any game. The exception begin N2003. "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > > > Brave? What's bravery got to do with it? IMO, GTR2002 is weak. > > Noted....what products are superior to N2k3(Papyrus) and the GTR mod at > this time? > I'm not trying to be pissy..I'm trying to find out what you think are good > sims... > dave henrie > > >

"Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> Well since the only thing I play anymore is Papy Nascar sims it's a > pretty short list. Tried GP4, F1 and the mod. LFS (better than > GTR2002 to me), and some of the rally games. None could I really > suspend belief enough to enjoy past the honeymoon stage. Besides > N2003, Links (golf) is something that I can enjoy and dissolve into > rather well. Ultimately, at 35, I find myself spending less and less > time playing any game. The exception begin N2003.

OK thanks. dh

It's not the differing opinion, it's the lack of detail. "GTR sucks" or the functional equivalent is never a fair critique, especially when it's contrary to a strong majority. I enjoy reading contrary opinions, it either reinforces my position or helps me discover that I'm wrong. I just get frustrated by conclusory nonsense without substance; especially concerning a free mod that is well received by so many serious sim racers. -- Joe M. "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I don't like road course racing but I thought GPL was superb, just not > something I'm interested in. GTR2002 on the other hand didnt offer much of > anything to me. Physics, graphics or sound. > And yeah, my .2 cents as an argument is worthless. Good thing I am not > arguing. ;) It's all conjecture and opinion is the point, though for some > odd reason people take a differing opinion as if they were being spit on in > the street. Amusing. > > "Redmist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:b2f41m$1bvs8l$[email hidden]... > > > but that isn't saying much to me. Anyways, don't get all pissy. It's > > just > > > one guys .2 cents which is all anything is worth on usenet. > > > > So your argument isn't even worth 2 cents? ;) > > > > You don't like road racing so GTR 2002 is weak. Riiight. I hate oval > > racing with a passion but I still think N2003 is a good sim - just not one > > I'm interested in. > > > > > >

It's "ok". Doesn't feel like anything special to me. It still feels like the pivot point for the cars is halfway between the cockpit and the front tires. Larry "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b2eu2i$1bo6k4$[email hidden]... > > GTR2002 is "ok" but it's still EA's F1 engine underneath. > > Actually it's ISI's engine. > Your point being? > >

That 'hissing' noise might be wind. Knock the "Other Sounds" setting down to 10 or so and see if it's any different. I don't care much for the 'other' sounds. Larry "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Brave? What's bravery got to do with it? IMO, GTR2002 is weak. Therewas > a thread that was talking about the sound being very different with > different soundcards and perhaps that's a factor. The sound on my Theatre > XP is horrible. Having said that, it seems Papy hasn't perfected their > hissing problem with N2003 either but the sound is still pretty good ifyou > overlook that. In answer to your question about which are not arcadegames. > None of them. But the closest thing in my mind to making me dissolve into > the game has been the nascar series. GPL was excellent as well but I am a > round track guy and my bias lies there, without apology. I just havenever > got the GTR2002 thing. Ran it for about a week after hearing folks go on > and on about it, really trying to see what the hype was about and nevergot > it. It has nothing to do with bravery man. This is all opinion and Isure > as hell don't live in this newsgroup. I am posting the first time I havea > chance after seeing replies to my post. To each his own and knockyourself > out there Joe. Frankly I don't think it's such a substandard add-on really > if you judge the add-on by the original game. It improves on the original > but that isn't saying much to me. Anyways, don't get all pissy. It'sjust

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> one guys .2 cents which is all anything is worth on usenet. > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in > > news:[email hidden]: > > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > >> "Joe M." Much ado about nothing with that > > >> >> mod. > > >> >> > > >> Yes it is a mod with weaknesses, and yes Nr2k3 is not 100% > > >> serious. > > > But > > >> what would you recomend in place of these? > > >> dave henrie > > > > > > You're replying to the wrong guy Dave. I love GTR 2002, I was just > > > being my sarcastic self. > > > > > > -- > > > Joe M. > > > > > > > > Sorry Joe. > > > > I was hopin Kevin was smart enough to keep reading through a thread

and > > brave enough to give us his opinion. I am interested in what sim hefeels > > is NOT an arcade product. > > dave henrie > >

> It's "ok". Doesn't feel like anything special to me. It still feels like > the pivot point for the cars is halfway between the cockpit and the front > tires. Again, the vast majority of sim fans will disagree with you. 'Take a closer look' as they say.

actually its more like a LP popping on the turntable than hissing. Same sound n2202 made, even after the patch. Just one of those things. I can live with it but it isn't a configurable fix from what I can tell. "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VjR2a.794$[email hidden]...

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> That 'hissing' noise might be wind. Knock the "Other Sounds" setting down > to 10 or so and see if it's any different. > > I don't care much for the 'other' sounds. > > Larry > > "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Brave? What's bravery got to do with it? IMO, GTR2002 is weak. There > was > > a thread that was talking about the sound being very different with > > different soundcards and perhaps that's a factor. The sound on my

Theatre > > XP is horrible. Having said that, it seems Papy hasn't perfected their > > hissing problem with N2003 either but the sound is still pretty good if > you > > overlook that. In answer to your question about which are not arcade > games. > > None of them. But the closest thing in my mind to making me dissolveinto > > the game has been the nascar series. GPL was excellent as well but I ama > > round track guy and my bias lies there, without apology. I just have > never > > got the GTR2002 thing. Ran it for about a week after hearing folks goon > > and on about it, really trying to see what the hype was about and never > got > > it. It has nothing to do with bravery man. This is all opinion and I > sure > > as hell don't live in this newsgroup. I am posting the first time Ihave > a > > chance after seeing replies to my post. To each his own and knock > yourself > > out there Joe. Frankly I don't think it's such a substandard add-onreally > > if you judge the add-on by the original game. It improves on theoriginal

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> > but that isn't saying much to me. Anyways, don't get all pissy. It's > just > > one guys .2 cents which is all anything is worth on usenet. > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in > > > news:[email hidden]: > > > > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > >> "Joe M." Much ado about nothing with that > > > >> >> mod. > > > >> >> > > > >> Yes it is a mod with weaknesses, and yes Nr2k3 is not 100% > > > >> serious. > > > > But > > > >> what would you recomend in place of these? > > > >> dave henrie > > > > > > > > You're replying to the wrong guy Dave. I love GTR 2002, I was just > > > > being my sarcastic self. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Joe M. > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry Joe. > > > > > > I was hopin Kevin was smart enough to keep reading through a thread > and > > > brave enough to give us his opinion. I am interested in what sim he > feels > > > is NOT an arcade product. > > > dave henrie > > > > > >

I don't need to take a closer look. I run it all the time and I know how it feels to ME. That doesn't mean it feels the same to you, or that it matters in the least. To me, it's just 'ok' and without the GTR mod I'd probably not have it on my drive any more. Larry "Redmist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b2h6js$1csik6$[email hidden]... > > It's "ok". Doesn't feel like anything special to me. It still feelslike > > the pivot point for the cars is halfway between the cockpit and thefront > > tires. > > Again, the vast majority of sim fans will disagree with you. 'Take acloser > look' as they say. > >

I suspect you are running a Live! card or Audigy, right? Larry "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> actually its more like a LP popping on the turntable than hissing. Same > sound n2202 made, even after the patch. Just one of those things. I can > live with it but it isn't a configurable fix from what I can tell. > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:VjR2a.794$[email hidden]... > > That 'hissing' noise might be wind. Knock the "Other Sounds" setting

down

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> > to 10 or so and see if it's any different. > > > > I don't care much for the 'other' sounds. > > > > Larry > > > > "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Brave? What's bravery got to do with it? IMO, GTR2002 is weak.

There > > was > > > a thread that was talking about the sound being very different with > > > different soundcards and perhaps that's a factor. The sound on my > Theatre > > > XP is horrible. Having said that, it seems Papy hasn't perfectedtheir > > > hissing problem with N2003 either but the sound is still pretty goodif > > you > > > overlook that. In answer to your question about which are not arcade > > games. > > > None of them. But the closest thing in my mind to making me dissolve > into > > > the game has been the nascar series. GPL was excellent as well but Iam > a > > > round track guy and my bias lies there, without apology. I just have > > never > > > got the GTR2002 thing. Ran it for about a week after hearing folks go > on > > > and on about it, really trying to see what the hype was about andnever > > got > > > it. It has nothing to do with bravery man. This is all opinion andI

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> > sure > > > as hell don't live in this newsgroup. I am posting the first time I > have > > a > > > chance after seeing replies to my post. To each his own and knock > > yourself > > > out there Joe. Frankly I don't think it's such a substandard add-on > really > > > if you judge the add-on by the original game. It improves on the > original > > > but that isn't saying much to me. Anyways, don't get all pissy. It's > > just > > > one guys .2 cents which is all anything is worth on usenet. > > > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in > > > > news:[email hidden]: > > > > > > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > >> "Joe M." Much ado about nothing with that > > > > >> >> mod. > > > > >> >> > > > > >> Yes it is a mod with weaknesses, and yes Nr2k3 is not 100% > > > > >> serious. > > > > > But > > > > >> what would you recomend in place of these? > > > > >> dave henrie > > > > > > > > > > You're replying to the wrong guy Dave. I love GTR 2002, I was

just

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> > > > > being my sarcastic self. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Joe M. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry Joe. > > > > > > > > I was hopin Kevin was smart enough to keep reading through a

thread

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> > and > > > > brave enough to give us his opinion. I am interested in what sim he > > feels > > > > is NOT an arcade product. > > > > dave henrie > > > > > > > > > > > >

Hercules Theatre XP "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0U_2a.3591$[email hidden]...

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> I suspect you are running a Live! card or Audigy, right? > > Larry > > "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > actually its more like a LP popping on the turntable than hissing. Same > > sound n2202 made, even after the patch. Just one of those things. I can > > live with it but it isn't a configurable fix from what I can tell. > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:VjR2a.794$[email hidden]... > > > That 'hissing' noise might be wind. Knock the "Other Sounds" setting > down > > > to 10 or so and see if it's any different. > > > > > > I don't care much for the 'other' sounds. > > > > > > Larry > > > > > > "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Brave? What's bravery got to do with it? IMO, GTR2002 is weak. > There > > > was > > > > a thread that was talking about the sound being very different with > > > > different soundcards and perhaps that's a factor. The sound on my > > Theatre > > > > XP is horrible. Having said that, it seems Papy hasn't perfected > their > > > > hissing problem with N2003 either but the sound is still pretty good > if > > > you > > > > overlook that. In answer to your question about which are not

arcade > > > games. > > > > None of them. But the closest thing in my mind to making medissolve > > into > > > > the game has been the nascar series. GPL was excellent as well butI > am > > a > > > > round track guy and my bias lies there, without apology. I justhave > > > never > > > > got the GTR2002 thing. Ran it for about a week after hearing folksgo

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> > on > > > > and on about it, really trying to see what the hype was about and > never > > > got > > > > it. It has nothing to do with bravery man. This is all opinion and > I > > > sure > > > > as hell don't live in this newsgroup. I am posting the first time I > > have > > > a > > > > chance after seeing replies to my post. To each his own and knock > > > yourself > > > > out there Joe. Frankly I don't think it's such a substandard add-on > > really > > > > if you judge the add-on by the original game. It improves on the > > original > > > > but that isn't saying much to me. Anyways, don't get all pissy.

It's

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> > > just > > > > one guys .2 cents which is all anything is worth on usenet. > > > > > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in > > > > > news:[email hidden]: > > > > > > > > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > >> "Joe M." Much ado about nothing with that > > > > > >> >> mod. > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> Yes it is a mod with weaknesses, and yes Nr2k3 is not 100% > > > > > >> serious. > > > > > > But > > > > > >> what would you recomend in place of these? > > > > > >> dave henrie > > > > > > > > > > > > You're replying to the wrong guy Dave. I love GTR 2002, I was > just > > > > > > being my sarcastic self. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Joe M. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry Joe. > > > > > > > > > > I was hopin Kevin was smart enough to keep reading through a > thread > > > and > > > > > brave enough to give us his opinion. I am interested in what sim

he

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> > > feels > > > > > is NOT an arcade product. > > > > > dave henrie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Oh no. Mob rules man. If everybody ele likes it you must not talk bad about it. I'm with ya. I wouldn't have F1 installed if it weren't for the mod, but even with it, after giving it a fair chance, the gtr executable still doesn't get punched very often. Slightly better than average auto sim. "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tT_2a.3590$[email hidden]... > I don't need to take a closer look. I run it all the time and I know howit > feels to ME. That doesn't mean it feels the same to you, or that itmatters > in the least. > > To me, it's just 'ok' and without the GTR mod I'd probably not have it onmy

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> drive any more. > > Larry > > "Redmist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:b2h6js$1csik6$[email hidden]... > > > It's "ok". Doesn't feel like anything special to me. It still feels > like > > > the pivot point for the cars is halfway between the cockpit and the > front > > > tires. > > > > Again, the vast majority of sim fans will disagree with you. 'Take a > closer > > look' as they say. > > > > > >

Interesting... The GTXP has the same basic reference design and chipset as my Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, and I don't have those issues. The only time I ever did was with those blasted Live! cards. Maybe Hercules doesn't have the drivers quite right yet. Larry "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hercules Theatre XP > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:0U_2a.3591$[email hidden]... > > I suspect you are running a Live! card or Audigy, right? > > > > Larry > > > > "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > actually its more like a LP popping on the turntable than hissing.

Same > > > sound n2202 made, even after the patch. Just one of those things. Ican > > > live with it but it isn't a configurable fix from what I can tell. > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:VjR2a.794$[email hidden]... > > > > That 'hissing' noise might be wind. Knock the "Other Sounds"setting

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> > down > > > > to 10 or so and see if it's any different. > > > > > > > > I don't care much for the 'other' sounds. > > > > > > > > Larry > > > > > > > > "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > Brave? What's bravery got to do with it? IMO, GTR2002 is weak. > > There > > > > was > > > > > a thread that was talking about the sound being very different

with > > > > > different soundcards and perhaps that's a factor. The sound on my > > > Theatre > > > > > XP is horrible. Having said that, it seems Papy hasn't perfected > > their > > > > > hissing problem with N2003 either but the sound is still prettygood

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> > if > > > > you > > > > > overlook that. In answer to your question about which are not > arcade > > > > games. > > > > > None of them. But the closest thing in my mind to making me > dissolve > > > into > > > > > the game has been the nascar series. GPL was excellent as well

but

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> I > > am > > > a > > > > > round track guy and my bias lies there, without apology. I just > have > > > > never > > > > > got the GTR2002 thing. Ran it for about a week after hearing

folks > go > > > on > > > > > and on about it, really trying to see what the hype was about and > > never > > > > got > > > > > it. It has nothing to do with bravery man. This is all opinionand > > I > > > > sure > > > > > as hell don't live in this newsgroup. I am posting the first timeI > > > have > > > > a > > > > > chance after seeing replies to my post. To each his own and knock > > > > yourself > > > > > out there Joe. Frankly I don't think it's such a substandardadd-on

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> > > really > > > > > if you judge the add-on by the original game. It improves on the > > > original > > > > > but that isn't saying much to me. Anyways, don't get all pissy. > It's > > > > just > > > > > one guys .2 cents which is all anything is worth on usenet. > > > > > > > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in > > > > > > news:[email hidden]: > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > >> "Joe M." Much ado about nothing with that > > > > > > >> >> mod. > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> Yes it is a mod with weaknesses, and yes Nr2k3 is not 100% > > > > > > >> serious. > > > > > > > But > > > > > > >> what would you recomend in place of these? > > > > > > >> dave henrie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're replying to the wrong guy Dave. I love GTR 2002, I was > > just > > > > > > > being my sarcastic self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Joe M. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry Joe. > > > > > > > > > > > > I was hopin Kevin was smart enough to keep reading through a > > thread > > > > and > > > > > > brave enough to give us his opinion. I am interested in what

sim

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> he > > > > feels > > > > > > is NOT an arcade product. > > > > > > dave henrie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

They don't. Hercules doesn't match the compatibility/stability of TBSC. -- Joe M. "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jl93a.7007$[email hidden]... > Interesting... > > The GTXP has the same basic reference design and chipset as my Turtle Beach > Santa Cruz, and I don't have those issues. The only time I ever did was > with those blasted Live! cards. > > Maybe Hercules doesn't have the drivers quite right yet. > > Larry > > "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Hercules Theatre XP > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:0U_2a.3591$[email hidden]... > > > I suspect you are running a Live! card or Audigy, right? > > > > > > Larry > > > > > > "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > actually its more like a LP popping on the turntable than hissing. > Same > > > > sound n2202 made, even after the patch. Just one of those things. I > can > > > > live with it but it isn't a configurable fix from what I can tell. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:VjR2a.794$[email hidden]... > > > > > That 'hissing' noise might be wind. Knock the "Other Sounds" > setting > > > down > > > > > to 10 or so and see if it's any different. > > > > > > > > > > I don't care much for the 'other' sounds. > > > > > > > > > > Larry > > > > > > > > > > "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > Brave? What's bravery got to do with it? IMO, GTR2002 is weak. > > > There > > > > > was > > > > > > a thread that was talking about the sound being very different > with > > > > > > different soundcards and perhaps that's a factor. The sound on my > > > > Theatre > > > > > > XP is horrible. Having said that, it seems Papy hasn't perfected > > > their > > > > > > hissing problem with N2003 either but the sound is still pretty > good > > > if > > > > > you > > > > > > overlook that. In answer to your question about which are not > > arcade > > > > > games. > > > > > > None of them. But the closest thing in my mind to making me > > dissolve > > > > into > > > > > > the game has been the nascar series. GPL was excellent as well > but > > I > > > am > > > > a > > > > > > round track guy and my bias lies there, without apology. I just > > have > > > > > never > > > > > > got the GTR2002 thing. Ran it for about a week after hearing > folks > > go > > > > on > > > > > > and on about it, really trying to see what the hype was about and > > > never > > > > > got > > > > > > it. It has nothing to do with bravery man. This is all opinion > and > > > I > > > > > sure > > > > > > as hell don't live in this newsgroup. I am posting the first time > I > > > > have > > > > > a > > > > > > chance after seeing replies to my post. To each his own and knock > > > > > yourself > > > > > > out there Joe. Frankly I don't think it's such a substandard > add-on > > > > really > > > > > > if you judge the add-on by the original game. It improves on the > > > > original > > > > > > but that isn't saying much to me. Anyways, don't get all pissy. > > It's > > > > > just > > > > > > one guys .2 cents which is all anything is worth on usenet. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in > > > > > > > news:[email hidden]: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > >> "Joe M." Much ado about nothing with that > > > > > > > >> >> mod. > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> Yes it is a mod with weaknesses, and yes Nr2k3 is not 100% > > > > > > > >> serious. > > > > > > > > But > > > > > > > >> what would you recomend in place of these? > > > > > > > >> dave henrie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're replying to the wrong guy Dave. I love GTR 2002, I was > > > just > > > > > > > > being my sarcastic self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Joe M. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry Joe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was hopin Kevin was smart enough to keep reading through a > > > thread > > > > > and > > > > > > > brave enough to give us his opinion. I am interested in what > sim > > he > > > > > feels > > > > > > > is NOT an arcade product. > > > > > > > dave henrie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Your way out of line. Nacar2k is simulating a full on race car,while LFS at the moment is simulating 200 road cars. They are far more docile so they will feel more mundane and there is less SCOPE for the games phsyics to show. Wait until we see some different and more powerful cars for LFS before a comparison "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Oh no. Mob rules man. If everybody ele likes it you must not talk badabout

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> it. > > I'm with ya. I wouldn't have F1 installed if it weren't for the mod, but > even with it, after giving it a fair chance, the gtr executable still > doesn't get punched very often. Slightly better than average auto sim. > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:tT_2a.3590$[email hidden]... > > I don't need to take a closer look. I run it all the time and I know

how > it > > feels to ME. That doesn't mean it feels the same to you, or that it > matters > > in the least. > > > > To me, it's just 'ok' and without the GTR mod I'd probably not have iton

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> my > > drive any more. > > > > Larry > > > > "Redmist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:b2h6js$1csik6$[email hidden]... > > > > It's "ok". Doesn't feel like anything special to me. It still

feels

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> > like > > > > the pivot point for the cars is halfway between the cockpit and the > > front > > > > tires. > > > > > > Again, the vast majority of sim fans will disagree with you. 'Take a > > closer > > > look' as they say. > > > > > > > > > > > >

That has been my experience too. I own both cards, and the GTXP has been on the shelf for over a year. Larry "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> They don't. Hercules doesn't match the compatibility/stability of TBSC. > > -- > Joe M. > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:jl93a.7007$[email hidden]... > > Interesting... > > > > The GTXP has the same basic reference design and chipset as my Turtle > Beach > > Santa Cruz, and I don't have those issues. The only time I ever did was > > with those blasted Live! cards. > > > > Maybe Hercules doesn't have the drivers quite right yet. > > > > Larry > > > > "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Hercules Theatre XP > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:0U_2a.3591$[email hidden]... > > > > I suspect you are running a Live! card or Audigy, right? > > > > > > > > Larry > > > > > > > > "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > actually its more like a LP popping on the turntable than hissing. > > Same > > > > > sound n2202 made, even after the patch. Just one of those things.

I

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> > can > > > > > live with it but it isn't a configurable fix from what I can tell. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:VjR2a.794$[email hidden]... > > > > > > That 'hissing' noise might be wind. Knock the "Other Sounds" > > setting > > > > down > > > > > > to 10 or so and see if it's any different. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't care much for the 'other' sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > Brave? What's bravery got to do with it? IMO, GTR2002 is

weak. > > > > There > > > > > > was > > > > > > > a thread that was talking about the sound being very different > > with > > > > > > > different soundcards and perhaps that's a factor. The soundon > my > > > > > Theatre > > > > > > > XP is horrible. Having said that, it seems Papy hasn't > perfected > > > > their > > > > > > > hissing problem with N2003 either but the sound is stillpretty

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> > good > > > > if > > > > > > you > > > > > > > overlook that. In answer to your question about which are not > > > arcade > > > > > > games. > > > > > > > None of them. But the closest thing in my mind to making me > > > dissolve > > > > > into > > > > > > > the game has been the nascar series. GPL was excellent as

well > > but > > > I > > > > am > > > > > a > > > > > > > round track guy and my bias lies there, without apology. Ijust

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> > > have > > > > > > never > > > > > > > got the GTR2002 thing. Ran it for about a week after hearing > > folks > > > go > > > > > on > > > > > > > and on about it, really trying to see what the hype was about > and > > > > never > > > > > > got > > > > > > > it. It has nothing to do with bravery man. This is all

opinion

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> > and > > > > I > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > as hell don't live in this newsgroup. I am posting the first > time > > I > > > > > have > > > > > > a > > > > > > > chance after seeing replies to my post. To each his own and > knock > > > > > > yourself > > > > > > > out there Joe. Frankly I don't think it's such a substandard > > add-on > > > > > really > > > > > > > if you judge the add-on by the original game. It improves on > the > > > > > original > > > > > > > but that isn't saying much to me. Anyways, don't get all

pissy.

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> > > It's > > > > > > just > > > > > > > one guys .2 cents which is all anything is worth on usenet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in > > > > > > > > news:[email hidden]: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > >> "Joe M." Much ado about nothing with that > > > > > > > > >> >> mod. > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Yes it is a mod with weaknesses, and yes Nr2k3 is not > 100% > > > > > > > > >> serious. > > > > > > > > > But > > > > > > > > >> what would you recomend in place of these? > > > > > > > > >> dave henrie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're replying to the wrong guy Dave. I love GTR 2002, I > was > > > > just > > > > > > > > > being my sarcastic self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Joe M. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry Joe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was hopin Kevin was smart enough to keep reading

through > a > > > > thread > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > brave enough to give us his opinion. I am interested inwhat

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> > sim > > > he > > > > > > feels > > > > > > > > is NOT an arcade product. > > > > > > > > dave henrie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Wouldn't give my XP up for anything. That is unfortunate if the Hercules card is the root of the problem, though I experience the same audio issues on other boxes with integrated sound. Again, unfortunate, but I love this audio solution on the whole. Top notch. "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:uyu3a.14931$[email hidden]... > That has been my experience too. I own both cards, and the GTXP has beenon

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> the shelf for over a year. > > Larry > > "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > They don't. Hercules doesn't match the compatibility/stability of TBSC. > > > > -- > > Joe M. > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:jl93a.7007$[email hidden]... > > > Interesting... > > > > > > The GTXP has the same basic reference design and chipset as my Turtle > > Beach > > > Santa Cruz, and I don't have those issues. The only time I ever did

was

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> > > with those blasted Live! cards. > > > > > > Maybe Hercules doesn't have the drivers quite right yet. > > > > > > Larry > > > > > > "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Hercules Theatre XP > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:0U_2a.3591$[email hidden]... > > > > > I suspect you are running a Live! card or Audigy, right? > > > > > > > > > > Larry > > > > > > > > > > "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > actually its more like a LP popping on the turntable than

hissing. > > > Same > > > > > > sound n2202 made, even after the patch. Just one of thosethings. > I > > > can > > > > > > live with it but it isn't a configurable fix from what I cantell.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:VjR2a.794$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > That 'hissing' noise might be wind. Knock the "Other Sounds" > > > setting > > > > > down > > > > > > > to 10 or so and see if it's any different. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't care much for the 'other' sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > Brave? What's bravery got to do with it? IMO, GTR2002 is > weak. > > > > > There > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > a thread that was talking about the sound being very

different

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> > > with > > > > > > > > different soundcards and perhaps that's a factor. The sound > on > > my > > > > > > Theatre > > > > > > > > XP is horrible. Having said that, it seems Papy hasn't > > perfected > > > > > their > > > > > > > > hissing problem with N2003 either but the sound is still > pretty > > > good > > > > > if > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > overlook that. In answer to your question about which are

not

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> > > > arcade > > > > > > > games. > > > > > > > > None of them. But the closest thing in my mind to making me > > > > dissolve > > > > > > into > > > > > > > > the game has been the nascar series. GPL was excellent as > well > > > but > > > > I > > > > > am > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > round track guy and my bias lies there, without apology. I > just > > > > have > > > > > > > never > > > > > > > > got the GTR2002 thing. Ran it for about a week after

hearing > > > folks > > > > go > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > and on about it, really trying to see what the hype wasabout

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> > and > > > > > never > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > it. It has nothing to do with bravery man. This is all > opinion > > > and > > > > > I > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > as hell don't live in this newsgroup. I am posting the

first

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> > time > > > I > > > > > > have > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > chance after seeing replies to my post. To each his own and > > knock > > > > > > > yourself > > > > > > > > out there Joe. Frankly I don't think it's such a substandard > > > add-on > > > > > > really > > > > > > > > if you judge the add-on by the original game. It improves

on

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> > the > > > > > > original > > > > > > > > but that isn't saying much to me. Anyways, don't get all > pissy. > > > > It's > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > one guys .2 cents which is all anything is worth on usenet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in > > > > > > > > > news:[email hidden]: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > >> "Joe M." Much ado about nothing with that > > > > > > > > > >> >> mod. > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> Yes it is a mod with weaknesses, and yes Nr2k3 is

not

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> > 100% > > > > > > > > > >> serious. > > > > > > > > > > But > > > > > > > > > >> what would you recomend in place of these? > > > > > > > > > >> dave henrie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're replying to the wrong guy Dave. I love GTR 2002,

I

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> > was > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > being my sarcastic self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Joe M. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry Joe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was hopin Kevin was smart enough to keep reading > through > > a > > > > > thread > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > brave enough to give us his opinion. I am interested in > what > > > sim > > > > he > > > > > > > feels > > > > > > > > > is NOT an arcade product. > > > > > > > > > dave henrie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Perhaps reading up the thread next time will help. While the topic was LFS, the subject had turned to GTR2002. "Dan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3e4cf896$0$5553$[email hidden]...

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> Your way out of line. > > Nacar2k is simulating a full on race car,while LFS at the moment is > simulating 200 road cars. > They are far more docile so they will feel more mundane and there is less > SCOPE for the games phsyics to show. > > Wait until we see some different and more powerful cars for LFS before a > comparison > "Kevin Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Oh no. Mob rules man. If everybody ele likes it you must not talk bad > about > > it. > > > > I'm with ya. I wouldn't have F1 installed if it weren't for the mod,

but

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> > even with it, after giving it a fair chance, the gtr executable still > > doesn't get punched very often. Slightly better than average auto sim. > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:tT_2a.3590$[email hidden]... > > > I don't need to take a closer look. I run it all the time and I know > how > > it > > > feels to ME. That doesn't mean it feels the same to you, or that it > > matters > > > in the least. > > > > > > To me, it's just 'ok' and without the GTR mod I'd probably not have it > on > > my > > > drive any more. > > > > > > Larry > > > > > > "Redmist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:b2h6js$1csik6$[email hidden]... > > > > > It's "ok". Doesn't feel like anything special to me. It still > feels > > > like > > > > > the pivot point for the cars is halfway between the cockpit and

the > > > front > > > > > tires. > > > > > > > > Again, the vast majority of sim fans will disagree with you. 'Takea

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> > > closer > > > > look' as they say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >