Official NR2003 Patch Thread

Any word on when/if a patch will be released for NR2003? Also, list any fixes in NR2003 in this thread. Things I would like to see get fixed: 1)-Wall riding fix (This should be made an option for those of us who don't want to use it) 2)-Ability to run the Twin 125's and Winston as part of the season. EA Sports figured out a way to do it for Nascar Thunder. I'll add more when I have some more time :)

On 17 Mar 2003 14:33:46 -0800, [email hidden] (vulcan) wrote: >1)-Wall riding fix (This should be made an option for those of us who >don't want to use it) > >2)-Ability to run the Twin 125's and Winston as part of the season. EA >Sports figured out a way to do it for Nascar Thunder. 3) Realistic Physics 4) Realistic Damage 5) Realistic AI 6) Photorealistic graphics Jason

"vulcan" wrote...

Quoted text (15 lines)

> Any word on when/if a patch will be > released for NR2003? > > Also, list any fixes in NR2003 in this thread. > > Things I would like to see get fixed: > > 1)-Wall riding fix (This should be made an option > for those of us who don't want to use it) > > 2)-Ability to run the Twin 125's and Winston as > part of the season. EA Sports figured out a > way to do it for Nascar Thunder. > > I'll add more when I have some more time :)

Spotter calling out when an AI car ahead is about to pit. Jan. =---

"Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (17 lines)

> On 17 Mar 2003 14:33:46 -0800, [email hidden] (vulcan) wrote: > > >1)-Wall riding fix (This should be made an option for those of us who > >don't want to use it) > > > >2)-Ability to run the Twin 125's and Winston as part of the season. EA > >Sports figured out a way to do it for Nascar Thunder. > > 3) Realistic Physics > > 4) Realistic Damage > > 5) Realistic AI > > 6) Photorealistic graphics > > Jason

Boy, not too demanding are we? This game is the best auto racing sim period and has the best physics and graphics to date and you still feel the need to ask for better in a patch? Huh....... Joe

I don't smell any gas fumes either. "Joe Saxon" <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> wrote in message news:b55s0q$sum$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (22 lines)

> > "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On 17 Mar 2003 14:33:46 -0800, [email hidden] (vulcan) wrote: > > > > >1)-Wall riding fix (This should be made an option for those of us who > > >don't want to use it) > > > > > >2)-Ability to run the Twin 125's and Winston as part of the season. EA > > >Sports figured out a way to do it for Nascar Thunder. > > > > 3) Realistic Physics > > > > 4) Realistic Damage > > > > 5) Realistic AI > > > > 6) Photorealistic graphics > > > > Jason > > Boy, not too demanding are we? This game is the best auto racing sim

period > and has the best physics and graphics to date and you still feel the needto > ask for better in a patch? Huh....... > > Joe > >

Realistic Damage to the Driver - when you hit the wall a 2x4 hits you in the head <g>. "Joe Saxon" <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> wrote in message news:b55s0q$sum$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (22 lines)

> > "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On 17 Mar 2003 14:33:46 -0800, [email hidden] (vulcan) wrote: > > > > >1)-Wall riding fix (This should be made an option for those of us who > > >don't want to use it) > > > > > >2)-Ability to run the Twin 125's and Winston as part of the season. EA > > >Sports figured out a way to do it for Nascar Thunder. > > > > 3) Realistic Physics > > > > 4) Realistic Damage > > > > 5) Realistic AI > > > > 6) Photorealistic graphics > > > > Jason > > Boy, not too demanding are we? This game is the best auto racing sim

period > and has the best physics and graphics to date and you still feel the needto > ask for better in a patch? Huh....... > > Joe > >

[email hidden] (vulcan) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > Any word on when/if a patch will be released for NR2003? > 1)-Wall riding fix (This should be made an option for those of us who > don't want to use it) I'm gonna second this one. *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! Regards, Mark

I'd be happy with just deleting it. IMO its not really needed. If someone want to wall ride offline, who cares. If its in a league and someone wall rides I'm sure the league admins will take care of it. As for pick up races, with all the other crap going on whats one more? MadDAWG

"Jan Verschueren" wrote... > <snip> > Spotter calling out when an AI car ahead is about > to pit. And for the pit options not to default to a four tyre stop when clearing a black flag incurred during the course of a pit stop. Jan. =---

Easy enough to turn off as your entering pit road if you have buttons/keyboard setup properly. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CEDda.17080$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (12 lines)

> "Jan Verschueren" wrote... > > <snip> > > Spotter calling out when an AI car ahead is about > > to pit. > > And for the pit options not to default to a four tyre stop when clearing a > black flag incurred during the course of a pit stop. > > Jan. > =--- > >

Here's my list: 1) Give us a method IN THE SIM to turn off that annoying animated background. 2) Give us a method IN THE SIM to turn off the background noises in when we're in the "Garage". 3) Give us a method IN THE SIM to turn off the helicopter sound in the helicopter/blimp replay view. 4) Give us a method in the server settings for overriding the LPI and rating restrictions for users that are in the invite list. 5) Let server admins turn off restrictor plates from in the game. 6) Let server admins set pit road speeds (effectively allowing us to turn OFF pit road speed limits) from in the game. 7) When I run a server, I just start it and let it go. The server.exe is shutdown between races (I use DeMONS, of course). Every once in a while, the server will encounter a communications error while trying to connect to Sierra, and will sit at a dialog waiting for user interaction (pressing the OKAY button). Since I don't sit there and babysit the server, it could sit there for DAYS before I realize anything is wrong. Here's the suggestion - allow us to specify how the server reacts to a connection error like that. The options could be: 0 = display a dialog and wait for user intervention (current behavior) 1 = retry the connection attempt after a user-specified amount of time (1-60 minutes), and for a specified number of retries (0 - 10, 0 meaning try indefinitely). 2 = terminate the server The necessary fields could be added to the core.ini file: [SERVER] ConnectErrorHandler=0 ; 0,1, or 2 are valid ConnectRetryDelay=1 ; 1-60 minutes ConnectRetryAttempts=0 ; 0-10 retries, 0 means forever Adding code to support this suggestion would make servers much more autonomous than they are currently. 8) Random breakdowns are happening WAY to often to be realistic. In four races, we've had half a dozen breakdowns early in the race that were not caused by driver abuse of their cars. I like the random breakdown thing, but it shouldn't completely remove a player from the race if the breakdown is repairable. We run 40% races, so there's plenty of time to get the car fixed and get back out for a few laps. 9) It also appears as if a random breakdown occurs, the driver is charged with an incident. That is wholly unfair. 10) The wall-riding fix needs to be re-thought. I would rather see a car be damaged enough to require a pit stop (at least one flat tire) than dragged down to a dangerously low speed. This is especially critical at Darlington and Bristol.

> *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! > > Regards, > > Mark What's the issue here? When I hit the wall my car slows down even if I keep the gas floored. How is this an issue? Joe

>Spotter calling out when an AI car ahead is about to pit. Jan. And I'll second this one!!! IIRC it is in NASCAR Heat and saved my bacon more than once. -- See ya in the pits, Dean I have a terrible memory. In fact my memory's so bad I can't remember how long it's been since I've forgotten anything. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Zvsda.16660$[email hidden]...

I want to see a patch with: 1) No more NASCAR. How about CART? Now *that* patch would make me buy NR2002 v1.1 (aka NR2003)

"Schooner" wrote... > Easy enough to turn off as your entering pit road if > you have buttons/keyboard setup properly. BS. you can't pause the game in an online race and I dare you to turn off the tyre change and the refuelling without either getting or causing another driver an extra penalty. You've got to be rubbernecking and concentrating on your driving so much there's just no spare attention to operate buttons or a keyboard. Especially on green flag stops. It's just stupid for the game to do a full service one or two laps after same has been performed. Jan. =---

Never had a problem with it to date. I hit the F5 button on my wheel then toggle the space bar button on my wheel and tired change is off as I drive down pit road. Just requires proper setup of buttons and getting use to them. Is it perfect? no but it works fine for me and others. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UTEda.17149$[email hidden]... > "Schooner" wrote... > > Easy enough to turn off as your entering pit road if > > you have buttons/keyboard setup properly. > > BS. you can't pause the game in an online race and I dare you to turn off > the tyre change and the refuelling without either getting or causinganother > driver an extra penalty. You've got to be rubbernecking and concentratingon > your driving so much there's just no spare attention to operate buttons ora

Quoted text (9 lines)

> keyboard. Especially on green flag stops. > > It's just stupid for the game to do a full service one or two laps after > same has been performed. > > Jan. > =--- > >

On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:17:11 -0500, "Joe Saxon" <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> wrote: >Boy, not too demanding are we? This game is the best auto racing sim period >and has the best physics and graphics to date and you still feel the need to >ask for better in a patch? Huh....... I'd like to see lap times in the sim that are at least within a second of real life at each track. As it stands I can shatter lap records on my 3rd lap at tracks I haven't driven in over a year. This wouldn't be a big deal if it weren't for the speeds at the plate tracks reaching near pre-restrictor plate levels. In real life the fastest tracks are Atlanta, followed by Michigan and California, then Talladega and Daytona. In the sim the fastest tracks are the plate tracks, followed by Michigan California and then Atlanta. The grip at Atlanta is completely off as I've read numerous reports by drivers who say that they keep the gas all the way down for the first few laps on new tires because there's so much grip there. I'd like to see Papyrus use real telemetry data to model the car behavior at each track since that was a big selling point for N2003. It's bad if a casual fan of the sport can immediately see that the speeds are off by wide margins. The damage model could be much better, I'd like to see fenders rub against tires, slight damage around the radiator causing overheating problems, etc. I'd like to see the addition of random tire punctures when a tire is overheating excessively. Debris on the track would be nice as well. Brake wear would be pretty cool too. I don't think I've seen a single instance where hitting the wall caused problems with the front toe, which happens every damn week in the real sport. Just little details any racing fan would pick up on after watching a race or two. Graphically it's good, so I can't say much about that. It has a very GP4 like quality which I consider a good thing, pleasant colors etc. Wish things were desaturated a bit as in any PC game but at least the colors are pleasant. Not necessarily a graphical addon per se, but rain would have been a great addition as well as red flags and such plus simply racing in it on the road courses. It's the best driving sim ever made. I'm just saying it could be better. SERIOUS SUGGESTION: ---------- One thing that I don't think would be out-of-line to ask for is the ability to edit horsepower, drag, and torque in the track.ini files just as we can now edit grip. It would rule to be able to sit down with some race footage and get laptimes and corner/straight speeds in line with reality by tweaking a few variables. I'm thinking of a multiplier like we have for grip now, but for torque, drag, and horsepower. It would be cheat-proof since the track.ini is specified by the server and not the client. We now have: track_asphalt_grip = 1.00 track_concrete_grip = 1.00 I'd also like to see: track_drag = 1.00 track_hp = 1.00 track_accel = 1.00 I don't expect this sort of thing to be implemented, but I don't think it's unreasonable either. ---------- Jason

On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:17:11 -0500, "Joe Saxon" <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> wrote: >Boy, not too demanding are we? This game is the best auto racing sim period >and has the best physics and graphics to date and you still feel the need to >ask for better in a patch? Huh....... Oh yeah, overlooked my AI thing. I'd like to see a nascar sim just once actually attempt to model the real bumping and grinding that happens in nascar. Not every track with every driver, but if I set a driver's agression to 100/100 I'd like to see him smacking some fenders with people. Jason

"Jason Moyer" said: > > I'd like to see lap times in the sim that are at least within a second > of real life at each track. As it stands I can shatter lap records on > my 3rd lap at tracks I haven't driven in over a year. I think this got more to do with poor track modelling than it has to do with the physics... Another factor here is the missing "seat of the pants" feeling. As for the damage - I agree - it can always be better. Same goes for the graphics.... I think Papy really need to get their act together on this area if they are to succeed in the console market. As for the AI's - I'de rather see then use their time on other things... I hav'nt raced them much since i discovered Hawaii back in '96 anyway. The future is multiplayer so if it were up to me they could drop the AI's all together. -- ed_

"vulcan" said: > Things I would like to see get fixed: > > 1)-Wall riding fix (This should be made an option for those of us who > don't want to use it) AGREED! 2. Race-list filtering. (Come on Papy!) 3. Better Damage model. 4. Ability for hosts to disable idividual driving aids in online-races 5. Better spotter. 6. Support for multiple replay-folders/directories. 7. Support for multiple carset-folders/directories. 8. Support for exports-templates (for the html files) 9. Better graphics. 10. Fix the bugs! :-) -- ed_

"Jan Verschueren" said: > BS. you can't pause the game in an online race and I dare you to turn off > the tyre change and the refuelling without either getting or causinganother > driver an extra penalty. You've got to be rubbernecking and concentratingon > your driving so much there's just no spare attention to operate buttons ora > keyboard. Especially on green flag stops. There's plenty of time to do this as you drive slowly down the pit lane Jan. How do you manage to do adjustments and/or changes when preparing for a reguleare (green-flag or not) pit-stop? -- ed_

AMEN BROTHER! "Mark" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding news:[email hidden]... > [email hidden] (vulcan) wrote in messagenews:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted text (19 lines)

> > Any word on when/if a patch will be released for NR2003? > > > 1)-Wall riding fix (This should be made an option for those of us who > > don't want to use it) > > I'm gonna second this one. > > *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! > *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! > *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! > *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! > *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! > *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! > *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! > *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! > > Regards, > > Mark

"John Simmons" said: > > 9) It also appears as if a random breakdown occurs, the driver > is charged with an incident. That is wholly unfair. I've always been under the impression that there's no such thing as *random* brakedown's in multiplayer-races. Meaning that all damage and/or brakedowns are caused by abusive handling of the car or other "obstacles"... Have I missed something? -- ed

I agree with it being stupid, but I set up my pitstop while entering pitroad and change it as needed before I get to my pit stall. Can't remember hitting anyone, but it's not easy. (-: -- "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UTEda.17149$[email hidden]... >> BS. you can't pause the game in an online race and I dare you to turn off > the tyre change and the refuelling without either getting or causing another >

Oh, I forgot one *important* thing: A properly modelled clutch with adjustable grip-point! (And not the "kiddy" incorrectly modellled clutch we got now..) Btw, "popping" the clutch at 7000 rpm's usually tend the *ripp* the driving wheels into motion - not choke the engine like N2003 (.. and NR02... and N4... and GPL...) does. -- ed_

Random break down does exist on-line. I've lost gears when leaving the pits, before I ever use that gear (shifting gently at 7k rpm). I've lost a camshaft at a plate track (with fixed setup) under pace..... before even taking the green flag. I've seen lots of random breakdowns in N4, NR02, and NR03 while racing on-line. -- -Paul My e-mail address is false. Please reply to this news group. "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1048003311.279081@gurney... > "John Simmons" said: > > > > > 9) It also appears as if a random breakdown occurs, the driver > > is charged with an incident. That is wholly unfair. > > > I've always been under the impression that there's no such thing as *random* > brakedown's in multiplayer-races. > Meaning that all damage and/or brakedowns are caused by abusive handling of > the car or other "obstacles"... > > Have I missed something? > > -- > ed > >

"MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > As for pick up races, > with all the other crap going on whats one more? True. 'Tis a pointless addition. Mark

> As for pick up races, > with all the other ***going on whats one more? True. 'Tis a pointless addition. Mark

Jason Moyer wrote:

Quoted text (14 lines)

> On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:17:11 -0500, "Joe Saxon" > <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> wrote: > > >Boy, not too demanding are we? This game is the best auto racing sim period > >and has the best physics and graphics to date and you still feel the need to > >ask for better in a patch? Huh....... > > Oh yeah, overlooked my AI thing. I'd like to see a nascar sim just > once actually attempt to model the real bumping and grinding that > happens in nascar. Not every track with every driver, but if I set a > driver's agression to 100/100 I'd like to see him smacking some > fenders with people. > > Jason

I'd be happy with them actually doing some drafting at the drafting tracks. Instead, if given a choice between attempting a pass (even if the opportunity is fair or poor), or staying in line, the AI almost always tries to pass. I'd also like lapped cars (esp. those 2+ laps down) get the heck out of the way of the leaders, without continually blocking them. But you're right about the draft-it's much too strong right now... John DiFool -- ============================================ Reach heaven far too high ============================================

Jan Verschueren wrote:

Quoted text (12 lines)

> "Schooner" wrote... > > Easy enough to turn off as your entering pit road if > > you have buttons/keyboard setup properly. > > BS. you can't pause the game in an online race and I dare you to turn off > the tyre change and the refuelling without either getting or causing another > driver an extra penalty. You've got to be rubbernecking and concentrating on > your driving so much there's just no spare attention to operate buttons or a > keyboard. Especially on green flag stops. > > It's just stupid for the game to do a full service one or two laps after > same has been performed.

Not only that, but it will mysteriously (not all the time) change your orders-I have driven in for a late topoff, only to notice to my horror that my crew all of a sudden decided to change all four tires! AARRGGHH. John DiFool -- ============================================ Reach heaven far too high ============================================

Many of the things being complained about aren't going to be "Patched" so you may as well get over it now. It's actually kind of comical the things being asked for in this thread. Some of what is being mentioned is already the best available in any driving simulator for the PC. Funny I don't recall GPL being hammered nearly as hard and it had numerous shortcomings (many more in my mind. No tire wear??). In fact instead of complaints (of which their were few, more of "It aint no GPL" was/is the prevailing attitude) a group determined to fix some of it themselves and have done an exceptional job. Why can't similar be done with NR2003 seeing how it now falls into the last of breed category now as GPL did then. Or is their more to this thread than meets the eye in this current state of world affairs? American series=complaints - Euro series=all is wonderful? -WG "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1048002600.864150@gurney...

Quoted text (33 lines)

> "vulcan" said: > > > Things I would like to see get fixed: > > > > 1)-Wall riding fix (This should be made an option for those of us who > > don't want to use it) > > AGREED! > > 2. Race-list filtering. (Come on Papy!) > > 3. Better Damage model. > > 4. Ability for hosts to disable idividual driving aids in online-races > > 5. Better spotter. > > 6. Support for multiple replay-folders/directories. > > 7. Support for multiple carset-folders/directories. > > 8. Support for exports-templates (for the html files) > > 9. Better graphics. > > 10. Fix the bugs! :-) > > > -- > ed_ > > >

"Ed Solheim" wrote... > <snip> > There's plenty of time to do this as you drive > slowly down the pit lane Jan. I'm constantly switching between looking at the tach to judge speed and trying to locate my pitcrew. I don't have time to do anything else unless I drop to way below pitroad limit. At which point some guy runs me over. > How do you manage to do adjustments and/or changes > when preparing for a reguleare (green-flag or not) > pit-stop? I don't. When racing non-fixed setup I drop the track bar and add (or should that be "take out"... I change it in the positive direction on the setup menu) 25 pounds of wedge if the rear gets smashed in, but that's it. Jan. =---

Photo realistic graphics??? give me a brake, or break... you cant afford the machine that plays it in current form, with all the "eye candy" now (obviously, as you still complain about GFX, looks dam fine on my machine BTW), and you THINK you want photo realistic gfx? ROFLMAO. I would settle for the small things someone already mentioned, like toe in damage, wall riding bug eliminated by actually having the wall rip the car & Tires apart like it would in real life if you rode the wall. but even with these thing you trade off the ability to have a decent race... Hell even now most of the morons online with all the driving aids and other things still cant handle any track but Dega... Daytona is a stretch of their abilities, and don't dare goto a real track like Darlington or Richmond... you know what I mean too. I like that the game is somewhat scale -able but I don't see papy or anyone for that matter ever going hard core, like they got burned on GPL. Which is a shame, because this Genre of game (NASCAR version) could have really used the SUPER HARDCORE. "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:17:11 -0500, "Joe Saxon" > <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> wrote: > > >Boy, not too demanding are we? This game is the best auto racing simperiod > >and has the best physics and graphics to date and you still feel the needto

Quoted text (65 lines)

> >ask for better in a patch? Huh....... > > I'd like to see lap times in the sim that are at least within a second > of real life at each track. As it stands I can shatter lap records on > my 3rd lap at tracks I haven't driven in over a year. This wouldn't > be a big deal if it weren't for the speeds at the plate tracks > reaching near pre-restrictor plate levels. In real life the fastest > tracks are Atlanta, followed by Michigan and California, then > Talladega and Daytona. In the sim the fastest tracks are the plate > tracks, followed by Michigan California and then Atlanta. The grip at > Atlanta is completely off as I've read numerous reports by drivers who > say that they keep the gas all the way down for the first few laps on > new tires because there's so much grip there. I'd like to see Papyrus > use real telemetry data to model the car behavior at each track since > that was a big selling point for N2003. It's bad if a casual fan of > the sport can immediately see that the speeds are off by wide margins. > > The damage model could be much better, I'd like to see fenders rub > against tires, slight damage around the radiator causing overheating > problems, etc. I'd like to see the addition of random tire punctures > when a tire is overheating excessively. Debris on the track would be > nice as well. Brake wear would be pretty cool too. I don't think > I've seen a single instance where hitting the wall caused problems > with the front toe, which happens every damn week in the real sport. > Just little details any racing fan would pick up on after watching a > race or two. > > Graphically it's good, so I can't say much about that. It has a very > GP4 like quality which I consider a good thing, pleasant colors etc. > Wish things were desaturated a bit as in any PC game but at least the > colors are pleasant. Not necessarily a graphical addon per se, but > rain would have been a great addition as well as red flags and such > plus simply racing in it on the road courses. > > It's the best driving sim ever made. I'm just saying it could be > better. > > SERIOUS SUGGESTION: > > ---------- > One thing that I don't think would be out-of-line to ask for is the > ability to edit horsepower, drag, and torque in the track.ini files > just as we can now edit grip. It would rule to be able to sit down > with some race footage and get laptimes and corner/straight speeds in > line with reality by tweaking a few variables. I'm thinking of a > multiplier like we have for grip now, but for torque, drag, and > horsepower. It would be cheat-proof since the track.ini is specified > by the server and not the client. > > We now have: > > track_asphalt_grip = 1.00 > track_concrete_grip = 1.00 > > I'd also like to see: > > track_drag = 1.00 > track_hp = 1.00 > track_accel = 1.00 > > I don't expect this sort of thing to be implemented, but I don't think > it's unreasonable either. > ---------- > > Jason

Sure, as long as you're not in one of the first pit boxes. I agree with the original poster. It's not about how easy it is for some of you guys to change, it's just about changing the default settings to reflect common sense. If the tires have little or no wear, they should be unchecked by default. The fuel is already setup this way. -Tim "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1048002883.39373@gurney... > "Jan Verschueren" said: > > > BS. you can't pause the game in an online race and I dare you to turnoff > > the tyre change and the refuelling without either getting or causing > another > > driver an extra penalty. You've got to be rubbernecking andconcentrating > on > > your driving so much there's just no spare attention to operate buttonsor > a > > keyboard. Especially on green flag stops. > > There's plenty of time to do this as you drive slowly down the pit laneJan.

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > How do you manage to do adjustments and/or changes when preparing for a > reguleare (green-flag or not) pit-stop? > > > -- > ed_ > >

The only problem I have with it is you can't drive off the wall in a turn without having to crank the wheel to an extreme and when it let's go of the wall you lose the rear end. It unrealistically 'sticks' you to the wall on the turns IMO. -Tim "Joe Saxon" <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> wrote in message news:b571vm$hj2$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > > *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! > > > > Regards, > > > > Mark > > What's the issue here? When I hit the wall my car slows down even if I

keep > the gas floored. How is this an issue? > > Joe > >

1. The new tire pre-heating feature seems to be inconsistent from track to track. Some tracks your new tire temps will be around 150 degrees while at others it will be 70 degrees. 2. As always, I wish they'd have the lap cars drop back to the end of the field in single file restarts in the last 10 laps of a race per nascar rules. 3. The pace car at Martinsville seems to take too long emerging from the pits causing mass confusion for the AI cars. 4. Improve the AI when it comes to realigning behind the pace car. At short tracks like Bristol the lap cars take too long sorting themselves into a single file line and thus causing you to miss your pit window or else go down a lap. -Tim "vulcan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (14 lines)

> Any word on when/if a patch will be released for NR2003? > > > Also, list any fixes in NR2003 in this thread. > > Things I would like to see get fixed: > > 1)-Wall riding fix (This should be made an option for those of us who > don't want to use it) > > 2)-Ability to run the Twin 125's and Winston as part of the season. EA > Sports figured out a way to do it for Nascar Thunder. > > I'll add more when I have some more time :)

All complaints? Read again my friend.... - those were suggestions or wishes if you like. (Well allright, some of them were complaints too - but it's not like I'm likely to use the sim any less because of them..) Incase you've missed it... "we" will never be happy - that is a fact (as well as a side-effect of evolution). As for GPL... - I have not touched that for years. -- ed_ "Warmgas" said: > It's actually kind of comical the things being asked for in this thread. > Some of what is being mentioned is already the best available in any driving > simulator for the PC. Funny I don't recall GPL being hammered nearly as > hard and it had numerous shortcomings (many more in my mind. No tire > wear??). In fact instead of complaints (of which their were few, more of > "It aint no GPL" was/is the prevailing attitude) a group determined to fix > some of it themselves and have done an exceptional job. Why can't similar > be done with NR2003 seeing how it now falls into the last of breed category > now as GPL did then. Or is their more to this thread than meets the eye in > this current state of world affairs? American series=complaints - Euro > series=all is wonderful? > > -WG

"Jan Verschueren" said: > > How do you manage to do adjustments and/or changes > > when preparing for a reguleare (green-flag or not) > > pit-stop? > > I don't. When racing non-fixed setup I drop the track bar and add (orshould > that be "take out"... I change it in the positive direction on the setup > menu) 25 pounds of wedge if the rear gets smashed in, but that's it. Aahh... but then *you* have a problem my friend... :-) Seriously.. it's not that big of a problem imo... *but*, having said that though - it would be nice if they could fix the bug and/or add an option that allow the driver to "remove" all pit-service in one go. -- eD_

"Tim Miser" wrote: 1. The new tire pre-heating feature seems to be inconsistent from track to > track. Some tracks your new tire temps will be around 150 degrees whileat > others it will be 70 degrees. AFAIK, it is supposed to be that way.. The pre-heating is an effect of tires being heated by the sun (as they lay in the pits/garage area).. So the hotter the temperature/better the weather - the hotter your tires will be. -- ed_

thats a good one. if you don't stay on your toes you will rear end them every time. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Zvsda.16660$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (25 lines)

> "vulcan" wrote... > > Any word on when/if a patch will be > > released for NR2003? > > > > Also, list any fixes in NR2003 in this thread. > > > > Things I would like to see get fixed: > > > > 1)-Wall riding fix (This should be made an option > > for those of us who don't want to use it) > > > > 2)-Ability to run the Twin 125's and Winston as > > part of the season. EA Sports figured out a > > way to do it for Nascar Thunder. > > > > I'll add more when I have some more time :) > > Spotter calling out when an AI car ahead is about to pit. > > Jan. > =--- > > > >

Ok, got ya. Stay off the wall!! ; ) Joe "Tim Miser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > The only problem I have with it is you can't drive off the wall in a turn > without having to crank the wheel to an extreme and when it let's go ofthe > wall you lose the rear end. It unrealistically 'sticks' you to the wallon

Quoted text (22 lines)

> the turns IMO. > > -Tim > > "Joe Saxon" <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> wrote in message > news:b571vm$hj2$[email hidden]... > > > > > *PLEASE* make wall riding penalty a switchable option! > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Mark > > > > What's the issue here? When I hit the wall my car slows down even if I > keep > > the gas floored. How is this an issue? > > > > Joe > > > > > >

"Ed Solheim"

Quoted text (10 lines)

> There's plenty of time to do this as you drive slowly down the pit > lane Jan. > > How do you manage to do adjustments and/or changes when preparing for > a reguleare (green-flag or not) pit-stop? > > > -- > ed_ >

Haven't you guys heard of Game Commander or other voice command products? yak in your microphone..."tires...space...space..." done...no changes...or "gas...less...less." 1/2 can only. It drives the wife nuts too..."Who are you talking to down there????" lol dave henrie

On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 16:41:45 +0100, "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote: >As for the AI's - I'de rather see then use their time on other things... I >hav'nt raced them much since i discovered Hawaii back in '96 anyway. The >future is multiplayer so if it were up to me they could drop the AI's all >together. I dunno. I like to see multiplayer improvements but I don't think we're at a point yet where a game can abandon single player and still be successful. Without seeing real statistics, I'd imagine the percentage of people who buy any racing sim and play it online is still tiny. I didn't put it in my other post but a toggle in the race options for the wall ride "fix" should have been added like 6 versions of NR ago. Jason

"Dave Henrie" wrote... > <snip> > Haven't you guys heard of Game Commander or other > voice command products? Yes, but this requires driving with headphones (crappy ones at that, because professional headsets don't come with stereo headphones) and I don't like driving with headphones. I got the technical ability to solve this sort of thing, but I'd rather drive in my spare time than tinker with switches and keyboard encoders and such. Jan. =---

In article <1048003311.279081@gurney>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted text (14 lines)

> "John Simmons" said: > > > > > 9) It also appears as if a random breakdown occurs, the driver > > is charged with an incident. That is wholly unfair. > > > I've always been under the impression that there's no such thing as *random* > brakedown's in multiplayer-races. > Meaning that all damage and/or brakedowns are caused by abusive handling of > the car or other "obstacles"... > > Have I missed something? >

My whole point is that most oft he breakdowns that occurr can be fixed in time for us to go back out and turn some laps, but the sim doesn't give us a chance to repair it. Add to that the fact that you get an incident when your car just breaks on it's own (a breakjkdown that requires you to retire), and the system simply sucks.

You can easily buy a boom mic with no headphones, one came with Game Commander when I bought it. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zSMda.18214$[email hidden]... > "Dave Henrie" wrote... > > <snip> > > Haven't you guys heard of Game Commander or other > > voice command products? > > Yes, but this requires driving with headphones (crappy ones at that,because

Quoted text (11 lines)

> professional headsets don't come with stereo headphones) and I don't like > driving with headphones. > > I got the technical ability to solve this sort of thing, but I'd rather > drive in my spare time than tinker with switches and keyboard encoders and > such. > > Jan. > =--- > >

>"Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote > Without seeing real statistics, I'd imagine the > percentage of people who buy any racing sim and play it online is > still tiny. No, it's pretty good. About 25% iirc. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Don't watch the tach, use 'S' to show your speed since that's what is actually being monitored. Also, with open setups your 2nd gear may not match what the spotter is telling you. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:EcJda.17583$[email hidden]... > "Ed Solheim" wrote... > > <snip> > > There's plenty of time to do this as you drive > > slowly down the pit lane Jan. > > I'm constantly switching between looking at the tach to judge speed and > trying to locate my pitcrew. I don't have time to do anything else unless I > drop to way below pitroad limit. At which point some guy runs me over. > > > How do you manage to do adjustments and/or changes > > when preparing for a reguleare (green-flag or not) > > pit-stop? > > I don't. When racing non-fixed setup I drop the track bar and add (or should > that be "take out"... I change it in the positive direction on the setup > menu) 25 pounds of wedge if the rear gets smashed in, but that's it. > > Jan. > =--- > >

Plowboy wrote:

Quoted text (13 lines)

> I would settle for the small things someone already mentioned, like toe in > damage, wall riding bug eliminated by actually having the wall rip the car & > Tires apart like it would in real life if you rode the wall. but even with > these thing you trade off the ability to have a decent race... Hell even now > most of the morons online with all the driving aids and other things still > cant handle any track but Dega... Daytona is a stretch of their abilities, > and don't dare goto a real track like Darlington or Richmond... you know > what I mean too. > > I like that the game is somewhat scale -able but I don't see papy or anyone > for that matter ever going hard core, like they got burned on GPL. Which is > a shame, because this Genre of game (NASCAR version) could have really used > the SUPER HARDCORE.

I think the grognards here (a term from my wargaming side, but it fits here too) underestimate how difficult it is to drive a reasonable simulation of a race car. I have been at it for two years, but I'm nowhere near good enough to try to compete online with you guys (to judge from the lap times I see posted here). A newbie where NR2003 is his first real sim (and not some arcade fluff) yes will be all over a track like Darlington (or will be going so slow that he continually-unintentionally-causes the leaders to wreck-deliberate wreckers aside). I don't dare turn off anti-lock brakes (the few times I did my tires didn't last more than 7 laps-either that or I underbrake just a bit and I'm in the wall) or traction control (or I'm spinning pirouettes down the track every other corner). Yes I suck-I freely admit it-but Joe Average isn't going to devote endless hours carefully and rigourously honing his skills like a lot of people here do. And that's just NR200X- in GPL I have a ton of fun, but also a ton of wrecks, and I can't imagine ever being good enough to do some of the shit I see in replays (taking the Masta Kink at 180 MPH. with your right tires scant inches from that right guardrail, lap after lap!? More power to ya, you creature from another world you...). It is fashionable to bash people who can't drive the tougher tracks- and yes there are wreckers-but there are also people who are the rawest of rookies, trying their damnednest to harness an 800 HP beast of a car, and I can't really blame them if they are in the wall before the end of lap two at Richmond. And they represent the vast majority of people who bought the game. So go do your thing in the league races, but let's tone down the snobbishness a bit, eh? We all were newbies once. John DiFool -- ============================================ Reach heaven far too high ============================================

Tim wrote: > Don't watch the tach, use 'S' to show your speed since that's what is actually being monitored. Also, with open setups your 2nd > gear may not match what the spotter is telling you. > The "officials" are pretty forgiving of speed infractions. I have actually entered pit road at Dega (say) at 70 MPH, but since I am braking like mad I get it down to 55 after 20 feet, and I don't get flagged. Now if they would just realize that I "entered pit road incorrectly" because I actually got spun out by some oaf, and he should get the penalty, not me... JD -- ============================================ Reach heaven far too high ============================================

Just ran Richmond at night and the new tires started out at over 150 degrees! "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1048015809.637527@gurney...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> "Tim Miser" wrote: > > 1. The new tire pre-heating feature seems to be inconsistent from track to > > track. Some tracks your new tire temps will be around 150 degrees while > at > > others it will be 70 degrees. > > AFAIK, it is supposed to be that way.. The pre-heating is an effect of > tires being heated by the sun (as they lay in the pits/garage area).. So

the

Quoted text (7 lines)

> hotter the temperature/better the weather - the hotter your tires will be. > > > -- > ed_ > >

"Joe Saxon" <joesaxon@!nospam!mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<b571vm$hj2$[email hidden]>... > What's the issue here? When I hit the wall my car slows down even if I keep > the gas floored. How is this an issue? More than once in our league (N2002, but I understand the penalty is still in N2003) I've seen wrecks because of this. If you run wide and rub the wall, *IF* you manage to pull yourself away without spinning, the car will continue to decellerate at the point where those behind are full bore. I seem to remember that Darlington in N2002 the penalty kicked in with the merest of caresses which spelled disaster on such a narrow racing surface. Regards, Mark

>The grip at >Atlanta is completely off as I've read numerous reports by drivers who >say that they keep the gas all the way down for the first few laps on >new tires because there's so much grip there. It was that way a couple of years ago, yeah. But I read quotes from drivers a couple weeks ago at Atlanta. Everyone said you couldn't take that track flatout anymore at all. You had to lift going down into the corner a little because the surface is starting to get a little wear on it. ----------------------------------------- Dan Belcher Webmaster, http://simcrash.fameflame.dk

That's still 75% of those that buy it that DON'T play online - pretty significant given the sales numbers for racing sims on the PC. Gunner (who LOVES racing online but sucks at it...) "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9RPda.2525$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (20 lines)

> >"Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Without seeing real statistics, I'd imagine the > > percentage of people who buy any racing sim and play it online is > > still tiny. > > > No, it's pretty good. About 25% iirc. > > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > >

That's still 75% of those that buy it that DON'T play online - pretty significant given the sales numbers for racing sims on the PC. Gunner (who LOVES racing online but sucks at it...)

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > Without seeing real statistics, I'd imagine the > > percentage of people who buy any racing sim and play it online is > > still tiny. > No, it's pretty good. About 25% iirc. > -- > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> > -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

In single player mode, a yellow flag on the first lap or one of the early laps of a race results in the entire AI field pitting to top off their tanks! -Tim "vulcan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (14 lines)

> Any word on when/if a patch will be released for NR2003? > > > Also, list any fixes in NR2003 in this thread. > > Things I would like to see get fixed: > > 1)-Wall riding fix (This should be made an option for those of us who > don't want to use it) > > 2)-Ability to run the Twin 125's and Winston as part of the season. EA > Sports figured out a way to do it for Nascar Thunder. > > I'll add more when I have some more time :)

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (vulcan) writes: >1)-Wall riding fix (This should be made an option for those of us who >don't want to use it) Y'know, I hit the wall at Dralington trying to stay out of everyone's way. Other than the contact damage, I didn't notice anything else. I was stuck on the wall for a while, but maybe I wasn't going fast enough to see the effect you guys keep talking about? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.680 MonsterRank: +334.169 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <_PDda.31603$[email hidden]>, "Schooner" <[email hidden]> writes: >Easy enough to turn off as your entering pit road if you have >buttons/keyboard setup properly. First - not everyone can easily reach their keyboard while driving. Second - usually when you get a BF you're either pissed off, confused, or both. It's easy to forget to change that. In a real race, you wouldn't have to worry about the crew 'forgetting' and changing all the tires - why should you have to worry about it here? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.680 MonsterRank: +334.169 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Didn't say it was easy for everyone but if you have a decent setup so you can reach a keyboard or have extra buttons on wheel, voice commands, etc it is easily possible. As for being pissed or confused off that isn't much of an excuse, its part of racing either sim or real. Again is it perfect? No, but we also don't have a real crew chief. Giving voice commands or using buttons is the next best way to make our wants and needs known. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (8 lines)

> In article <_PDda.31603$[email hidden]>, "Schooner" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Easy enough to turn off as your entering pit road if you have > >buttons/keyboard setup properly. > > First - not everyone can easily reach their keyboard while driving. > Second - usually when you get a BF you're either pissed off, confused, or

both. > It's easy to forget to change that. In a real race, you wouldn't have to > worry about the crew 'forgetting' and changing all the tires - why shouldyou

Quoted text (10 lines)

> have to worry about it here? > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:-1.680 > MonsterRank: +334.169 > N2002 Rank:+17.59 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <Y6Fda.31628$[email hidden]>, "Schooner" <[email hidden]> writes: >Never had a problem with it to date. I hit the F5 button on my wheel then >toggle the space bar button on my wheel and tired change is off as I drive >down pit road. Just requires proper setup of buttons and getting use to >them. Is it perfect? no but it works fine for me and others. I'll add this to my previous message - not everyone has excess buttons on their wheel for configuring keyboard commands... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.680 MonsterRank: +334.169 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Mark) writes: >More than once in our league (N2002, but I understand the penalty is >still in N2003) I've seen wrecks because of this. If you run wide and >rub the wall, *IF* you manage to pull yourself away without spinning, >the car will continue to decellerate at the point where those behind >are full bore. I had that happen(n2002) at the first RASCAR at Bristol. I hit the wall, and couldn't accelerate. I got nailed by the leaders lapping me, causing a multi-car pileup. They didn't have any reason to expect a car going 30pmh slower than them on the *straight*... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.680 MonsterRank: +334.169 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I see adding additional buttons, voice command, etc in the same degree as using a decent wheel. Sure you could race with the keyboard or a joystick but most choose not too. The same holds true for secondary controllers to handle the additional pitting and related commands IMHO. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <Y6Fda.31628$[email hidden]>, "Schooner" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Never had a problem with it to date. I hit the F5 button on my wheelthen > >toggle the space bar button on my wheel and tired change is off as Idrive > >down pit road. Just requires proper setup of buttons and getting use to > >them. Is it perfect? no but it works fine for me and others. > > I'll add this to my previous message - not everyone has excess buttons ontheir

Quoted text (10 lines)

> wheel for configuring keyboard commands... > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:-1.680 > MonsterRank: +334.169 > N2002 Rank:+17.59 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <jn_ea.33505$[email hidden]>, "Schooner" <[email hidden]> writes: >I see adding additional buttons, voice command, etc in the same degree as >using a decent wheel. Sure you could race with the keyboard or a joystick >but most choose not too. The same holds true for secondary controllers to >handle the additional pitting and related commands IMHO. I have a TSW2mod. I think it's a pretty damn GOOD wheel, thank you very much. My statement still stands. There's NO good reason for the game to try to do a pitstop when you respond to a BF. Being in the situation of receiving a BF *definitely* affects your thinking. True, that's part of real racing, but a real pit crew wouldn't 'forget* and change the f'king tires when you don't WANT to... This is a stupid 'feature' in the game, IMO. We're going to have to agree to disagree here... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.680 MonsterRank: +334.169 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I never said you didn't have a good wheel, my point was it comes down to have equipment to handle all the tasks in the sim, be it a good wheel or extra controls to handle the other functions is all.. Anyway good luck with it I was just pointing out my view and have never had an issue with properly handling a BF or making pitting changes. What it comes down to is this, no matter how good the sim is people are going to find flaws with it and have issue with them. This is not one of the areas that I have an issue with. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <jn_ea.33505$[email hidden]>, "Schooner" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I see adding additional buttons, voice command, etc in the same degree as > >using a decent wheel. Sure you could race with the keyboard or ajoystick > >but most choose not too. The same holds true for secondary controllersto > >handle the additional pitting and related commands IMHO. > > I have a TSW2mod. I think it's a pretty damn GOOD wheel, thank you verymuch. > My statement still stands. There's NO good reason for the game to try todo a > pitstop when you respond to a BF. Being in the situation of receiving aBF > *definitely* affects your thinking. True, that's part of real racing, buta > real pit crew wouldn't 'forget* and change the f'king tires when you don'tWANT

Quoted text (12 lines)

> to... This is a stupid 'feature' in the game, IMO. > > We're going to have to agree to disagree here... > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:-1.680 > MonsterRank: +334.169 > N2002 Rank:+17.59 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"John DiFool" wrote... > Plowboy wrote: > > <snip> > > I think the grognards here (a term from my wargaming > side, but it fits here too) underestimate how difficult > it is to drive a reasonable simulation of a race car. I don't think the difficulty is underestimated, but it's also what makes this stuff so rewarding. If you allow the mountain to discourage you, you'll never climb it. > I have been at it for two years, but I'm nowhere near good > enough to try to compete online with you guys (to judge > from the lap times I see posted here). Racing online is not a matter of laptime but a matter of attitude. If you're in control of your car and don't make unpredictable moves you won't be barred from many races. That said, the grid in the RASCAR races is hypercompetitive. Last night I improved my personal best in practise and was still last, some 4/10ths off the leader in 18th; position 5 to 10 where within a 1/10th of a second. I agree it would take a lot of determination and concentration to enter that race safely, but on a bigger track I don't see the problem with having "less accomplished" drivers in the mix. > A newbie where NR2003 is his first real sim (and not some > arcade fluff) yes will be all over a track like Darlington > (or will be going so slow that he continually- > unintentionally-causes the leaders to wreck-deliberate > wreckers aside). NR2003 is not a newbie friendly sim, true. GPL would be a better choice due to the lower power vehicles available and the symmetry of their construction. Anyhow, I don't think someone should go online in his early hours with the sim. I think it takes that initial 20-50 hours (something like that? -What do you think guys?) to get some sort of feel for the car, plus a couple of hours of specific practise at the track. > I don't dare turn off anti-lock brakes (the few times I > did my tires didn't last more than 7 laps-either that or > I underbrake just a bit and I'm in the wall) or traction > control (or I'm spinning pirouettes down the track every > other corner). There's your problem right there. Turn the aides off *now* and keep them off. Not only do they, by construction, slow you down, but they also allow you to get into bad habits (like stomping on brake and throttle) which will be a bear to break once you feel confident enough to turn them off. Break your dependance on the aides now, before it's too late. No matter how frustrating the early going is, it's a lot easier than breaking a bad habit later on, believe me. It took me nearly all of last year and a lot of dissapointment to change certain aspects of my driving in order to be able to progress. Had I realised I was approaching things from the wrong angle back when I started out in GPL, it would have been a lot easier. > Yes I suck-I freely admit it-but Joe Average isn't going > to devote endless hours carefully and rigourously honing > his skills like a lot of people here do. Misconception number one: if you think about what you're doing (or have someone to give you some advise and learn from) it doesn't take countless hours to acchieve a passable level. Misconception number two: people don't practise endlessly. They are very familiar with their approach, know what they want from a racecar and know what to do to get it. VRL member Steven Moerman learned GPL from the odd go he was allowed on a friend's PC. He got his own computer last October and now it's just my experience that keeps him from beating me all the time. Ok, the first couple weeks he practised at least an hour a day, but now he just practises the upcoming track by two 45 minute sessions or so, just like the rest of us. The only way to practise racing is to do a lot of it. Against other people... AI, while good in places, won't teach you a thing. Most people who've caught the bug do as much of it as they can get away with. Because it's more fun than practising. > And that's just NR200X- in GPL I have a ton of fun, but > also a ton of wrecks, and I can't imagine ever being good > enough to do some of the shit I see in replays (taking > the Masta Kink at 180 MPH. with your right tires scant > inches from that right guardrail, lap after lap!? > More power to ya, you creature from another world you...). 2 mistakes here. 1) watching and thinking of emulating people who are much faster than you. You have to set more feasable goals for yourself. If you don't believe you can do it, you never will. 2) actually looking at or thinking about that guardrail when you negotiate the Masta kink.<g> There's no two ways about it: if you want to get the full enjoyment out of your purchase(s) you're going to have to be willing to work to get better at simming. If I may be as bold as to offer some unsolicited advise: Stick with GPL for the moment. <snobbism>You have learn to drive and race proper racecars first.</snobbism> ;-)) Use the trainers to learn about line and carrying speed in a turn without having to worry too much about getting power down. Don't use any aides. Read and take in the driving/setup advise at Richard Nunnini and Alison Hines' sites (see http://www.racesimcentral.com/guides/gpl/intro/gplintro.shtml) for tons of usefull links). While you're there, grab the fairly well sorted setups (defaults are hopeless to learn the game with, IMO). Find and download some replays which are only about one or two seconds faster than you are and find out where that time comes from using ReplayAnalyser. Merge them with your own laps and see how your approaches differ from the cockpit. Visualize the driving change you are going to make to incorporate this line into your driving. Hook up with a league. If you happen to find a friendly, yet competitive one, you can really "draft" the other members in more ways than the obvious and improve your performance. Plus the replays from the races are prime study material. Ideally, hook up with another simmer near you. Check out each other's rigs and watch/comment on each other's driving. I'm sure I wouldn't have caught on to drifting the cars in GPL until much later, if Greg Renner hadn't made me drive Lesmo 2 over and over again, until I got it right (by accident almost) and learned to recognise the feeling. > It is fashionable to bash people who can't drive the > tougher tracks I think that's a misconception. Yes, Darlington's racing surface is narrow and abrasive, so you have to be more restrained in your driving and when dealing with other drivers, but: the limit is the limit and that's no different at Darlington, Rockingham, Atlanta nor Michigan. If you find Atlanta easier than Darlington, you're just not driving it hard enough. The only real trouble with Darlington is online racing there tends to boil down to sprints between yellows, so there's usually no opportunity to taste the sweet nectar of having a car that stays under you 40 laps in, while first lap heros are slipping, sliding and losing seconds a lap. > -and yes there are wreckers- but there are also people > who are the rawest of rookies, trying their damnednest > to harness an 800 HP beast of a car, and I can't really > blame them if they are in the wall before the end of > lap two at Richmond. Not quite, any driver overstretching him/herself and ending up in the wall must take some blame for the consequences. If you're doing your thing and I punt you into the wall, then you're blameless. It's easy to see when someone is struggling and anyone who even attempts to pass such an individual in a marginal way deserves every bit of what happens next. > And they represent the vast majority of people who bought > the game. Probably the biggest mistake the general public makes when buying a racing sim is thinking that they're going to be able to "pick it up" easily. There is a general belief that the ability to race virtual cars is inborn in every one of us. Or, after the falsity of this statement manifests itself (which it almost invariably immediatly does), that it's a talent only a few are born with. This is equally false as, IMO, everybody can learn to sim at a reasonably high level. But still some flat out refuse to believe it's normal for there to be a learning process and to have to work at it, even if the contrary is shoved into their faces on a weekly basis. > So go do your thing in the league races, but let's tone > down the snobbishness a bit, eh? We all were newbies > once. Yes, we were all newbies once. But that was when everyone was a newbie and things had to be learned the hard way. Now, we are veterans and there's an opportunity to pass on our experience. We can tolerate newbies and newbie mistakes, but I find myself getting ever more intolerant of voluntary, stubborn ignorance. I don't have any experience racing with you and this not specifically directed at you, so please don't take this personally, but most "newbies" could do with shelving their pride and listen, really listen to what we got to say on the subject. Jan. =---