With the recent controversy surrounding bogus black flags, I thought
it was a good time to re-iterate some of the finer points of black
flag avoidance. Many times, people just plain don't understand what
happened because their brain goes blank and their eyes turn red as
soon as the spotter tells them that they have been given a black flag
for something. LISTEN TO THE SPOTTER. He will tell you why you got
the black flag, and how to clear it.
First, avoiding black flags requires that you are aware of how the
sim awards them. It is up to you to know this, and I've found that a
valid discovery process involves racing offline against the AI. DO
NOT make the mistake of assuming that the sim accurately models real-
life Nascar.
1) DO NOT pass any cars on your way to pit road. If you do, you will
get a black flag. This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in
rule in the sim. This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by
admins.
2) DO NOT pass any cars that have elected to pit while you have not.
This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in rule in the sim.
This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by admins.
3) DO NOT pass cars on the inside on a restart (remember, the
"inside" is reversed on road courses) before you pass the
start/finish line.
4) If one or more cars wreck on a restart, go ahead and pass them,
and the admins will try to clear your black flag. When I say "wreck
on the restart", I mean that they're flailing around in the infield
spinnning and bumping into things, and they are most assuredly not in
the racing line. This will be especially true as we come out of the
last turn and just before the green flag flies.
5) Turn your spottter on "HIGH" and DO NOT use the text version of
the spotter. Listen to what he says to you. Many times, a black flag
is cleared by just driving thru the pits, and the spotter WILL tell
you this. If you stop in your pit stall in the case of a drive-thru,
the black flag WILL NOT be cleared.
6) You cannot clear a black flag until you've crossed the
start/finish line on a restart. This means you pretty much have to
complete a full lap under green before trying to clear the black
flag.
7) You cannot clear a black flag during a caution. If you are trying
to clear a black flag under green, and the caution comes out BEFORE
you cross the entry line to pit road, DO NOT ENTER PIT ROAD. This
will result in a penalty for entering a closed pit, and you'll be
forced to the end of the longest line, and your black flag will still
be pending. If you cross the pit entry line BEFORE the caution comes
out, you will be allowed to clear your black flag, and you won't be
penalized with entering a closed pit.
8) You must clear a black flag before you've made three green flag
laps. If you don't, you'll be DQ'd. Many times, your inability to
clear the flag is based entirely on your confusion over how to clear
the flag. LISTEN TO YOUR SPOTTER - HE ONLY TELLS YOU ONE TIME HOW TO
CLEAR THE FLAG.
If someone is awarded a black flag, and they think it's bogus, I
think the admin should force a caution in order to safely clear the
flag.
You better be double-damn sure the black flag is *really* a bogus
one. If the admins think there's too many claims of bogus black
flags, they're gonna stop clearing them, and you'll just have to deal
with it.
John Simmons explains NR2003 black flag rules
John Simmons summarised how to avoid NR2003 black flags under caution, notably not passing cars that are pitting before they cross onto pit road. Others debated the exact rule, the use of the F2 live timing screen, and cases where the spotter's instructions seemed buggy.
Automated summary.
Um, ain't that kinda hard, John?
If we follow this rule, when a yellow comes out and some cars pit, all the
cars that don't pit will have to stop on the track :)
Larry
"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
"2) DO NOT pass any cars that have elected to pit while you have not.
This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in rule in the sim.
This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by admins."
> 2) DO NOT pass any cars that have elected to pit while you have not.
> This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in rule in the sim.
> This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by admins.
this is not true, at least it wasn't for N2002.
in N2002, you only got the black flag if you crossed the line before the car
you overtook entered the pit lane. You can safely pass a car who is going to
pits, if you are not going 200mph trying to catch the pacecar. It's easy to
get this kind of BF, at least on some shorter tracks. The passing driver has
to be careful... :)
I think it is the same in N2003 too - can someone confirm?
--
Mika Takala
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1Xjga.16046$[email hidden]...
Forgive me for speaking up, but I believe the "proper" way to do it is to
hold pace speed until you cross the start/finish line (or is that the pit
entrance line?...I always used the S/F line :), then catch up to the car
ahead of you.
Though I do agree it's very silly to be given a black flag over this. IRL,
anyone under the apron for X amount of time is obviously going to pit. Papy
should've fixed this.
-Will
Quoted text (14 lines)
> Um, ain't that kinda hard, John? > > If we follow this rule, when a yellow comes out and some cars pit, all the > cars that don't pit will have to stop on the track :) > > Larry > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "2) DO NOT pass any cars that have elected to pit while you have not. > This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in rule in the sim. > This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by admins." >"Mika Takala" wrote...
> > <snip>
> this is not true, at least it wasn't for N2002.
The black flag is awarded if you're ahead of the other car when it crosses
the line denoting the start of the pits and pitroad speedlimit in both
games.
Jan.
=---
Good stuff John
--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com
"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
> With the recent controversy surrounding bogus black flags, I thought
> it was a good time to re-iterate some of the finer points of black
> flag avoidance. Many times, people just plain don't understand what
> happened because their brain goes blank and their eyes turn red as
> soon as the spotter tells them that they have been given a black flag
> for something. LISTEN TO THE SPOTTER. He will tell you why you got
> the black flag, and how to clear it.
>
> First, avoiding black flags requires that you are aware of how the
> sim awards them. It is up to you to know this, and I've found that a
> valid discovery process involves racing offline against the AI. DO
> NOT make the mistake of assuming that the sim accurately models real-
> life Nascar.
>
> 1) DO NOT pass any cars on your way to pit road. If you do, you will
> get a black flag. This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in
> rule in the sim. This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by
> admins.
>
> 2) DO NOT pass any cars that have elected to pit while you have not.
> This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in rule in the sim.
> This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by admins.
>
> 3) DO NOT pass cars on the inside on a restart (remember, the
> "inside" is reversed on road courses) before you pass the
> start/finish line.
>
> 4) If one or more cars wreck on a restart, go ahead and pass them,
> and the admins will try to clear your black flag. When I say "wreck
> on the restart", I mean that they're flailing around in the infield
> spinnning and bumping into things, and they are most assuredly not in
> the racing line. This will be especially true as we come out of the
> last turn and just before the green flag flies.
>
> 5) Turn your spottter on "HIGH" and DO NOT use the text version of
> the spotter. Listen to what he says to you. Many times, a black flag
> is cleared by just driving thru the pits, and the spotter WILL tell
> you this. If you stop in your pit stall in the case of a drive-thru,
> the black flag WILL NOT be cleared.
>
> 6) You cannot clear a black flag until you've crossed the
> start/finish line on a restart. This means you pretty much have to
> complete a full lap under green before trying to clear the black
> flag.
>
> 7) You cannot clear a black flag during a caution. If you are trying
> to clear a black flag under green, and the caution comes out BEFORE
> you cross the entry line to pit road, DO NOT ENTER PIT ROAD. This
> will result in a penalty for entering a closed pit, and you'll be
> forced to the end of the longest line, and your black flag will still
> be pending. If you cross the pit entry line BEFORE the caution comes
> out, you will be allowed to clear your black flag, and you won't be
> penalized with entering a closed pit.
>
> 8) You must clear a black flag before you've made three green flag
> laps. If you don't, you'll be DQ'd. Many times, your inability to
> clear the flag is based entirely on your confusion over how to clear
> the flag. LISTEN TO YOUR SPOTTER - HE ONLY TELLS YOU ONE TIME HOW TO
> CLEAR THE FLAG.
>
> If someone is awarded a black flag, and they think it's bogus, I
> think the admin should force a caution in order to safely clear the
> flag.
>
> You better be double-damn sure the black flag is *really* a bogus
> one. If the admins think there's too many claims of bogus black
> flags, they're gonna stop clearing them, and you'll just have to deal
> with it.
>
I always use the pit entrance line William. If I do and then speed up, I've never gotten BF for that. But using the S/F just makes
you that much safer, so either one should work.
--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com
"William Bradshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
> > Forgive me for speaking up, but I believe the "proper" way to do it is to
> hold pace speed until you cross the start/finish line (or is that the pit
> entrance line?...I always used the S/F line :), then catch up to the car
> ahead of you.
>
> Though I do agree it's very silly to be given a black flag over this. IRL,
> anyone under the apron for X amount of time is obviously going to pit. Papy
> should've fixed this.
>
> -Will
>
>
"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> kirjoitti
viestiss�:iTlga.7875$[email hidden]...
You might be right, but I haven't got any BF's and I have passed cars in
these kind of situtations.
--
Mika Takala
Quoted text (7 lines)
> "Mika Takala" wrote... > > > <snip> > > this is not true, at least it wasn't for N2002. > > The black flag is awarded if you're ahead of the other car when it crosses > the line denoting the start of the pits and pitroad speedlimit in both > games.John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
> 1) DO NOT pass any cars on your way to pit road. If you do, you will
> get a black flag. This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in
> rule in the sim. This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by
> admins.
I'm curious how the sim defines "passing" in this instance.
If you pull onto the apron and maintain pacing speed at some of the
tracks (Loudon for instance) you will arrive at the entrance to the
pits before the cars that elect to stay out are to turn 4 because the
radius is smaller on the access road that it is on the track. Where
and how does it check to see if you have passed someone?
I would guess as long as you maintain pacing speed at all times once
you have caught up to the field you would be OK. I've never raced at
Loudon when yellows were on (I am not THAT masochistic) so can anyone
fill me in here?
Gerald
[email hidden] (Gerald Moore) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:
I would think it would be up to you, the driver, to maintain your spot
behind whichever car stayed out ahead of you. You can use the side look
keys or the F2 key which, after hitting the spacebar, shows real-time track
placement.
Be thankful this isn't the 60's at Indy...there you were expected to
maintain your distance when the yellow flew...so that if you were 10 car
lengths behind when the yellow came out...you must circle the track and
stay 10 car lengths back until you pit or the green comes out.
dave henrie
Quoted text (23 lines)
> John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:<[email hidden]>... > >> 1) DO NOT pass any cars on your way to pit road. If you do, you will >> get a black flag. This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in >> rule in the sim. This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by >> admins. > > I'm curious how the sim defines "passing" in this instance. > > If you pull onto the apron and maintain pacing speed at some of the > tracks (Loudon for instance) you will arrive at the entrance to the > pits before the cars that elect to stay out are to turn 4 because the > radius is smaller on the access road that it is on the track. Where > and how does it check to see if you have passed someone? > > I would guess as long as you maintain pacing speed at all times once > you have caught up to the field you would be OK. I've never raced at > Loudon when yellows were on (I am not THAT masochistic) so can anyone > fill me in here? > > Gerald >In a crowd of experienced drivers, that would be a funny remark, but
I bet it backfires on you...
:)
In article <1Xjga.16046$[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...
Quoted text (16 lines)
> Um, ain't that kinda hard, John? > > If we follow this rule, when a yellow comes out and some cars pit, all the > cars that don't pit will have to stop on the track :) > > Larry > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "2) DO NOT pass any cars that have elected to pit while you have not. > This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in rule in the sim. > This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by admins." > > >In article <G1lga.60$[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
You are absolutely wrong. You CANNOT pass the pitting car UNTIL he
has crossed the pit road line.
Quoted text (19 lines)
> > 2) DO NOT pass any cars that have elected to pit while you have not. > > This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in rule in the sim. > > This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by admins. > > this is not true, at least it wasn't for N2002. > > in N2002, you only got the black flag if you crossed the line before the car > you overtook entered the pit lane. You can safely pass a car who is going to > pits, if you are not going 200mph trying to catch the pacecar. It's easy to > get this kind of BF, at least on some shorter tracks. The passing driver has > to be careful... :) > > I think it is the same in N2003 too - can someone confirm? > > -- > Mika Takala > > >In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
If you get to the line that starts pit road before the car that was
in front of you, you will get a black flag for passing under yellow.
Quoted text (8 lines)
> John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > > > 1) DO NOT pass any cars on your way to pit road. If you do, you will > > get a black flag. This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in > > rule in the sim. This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by > > admins. > > I'm curious how the sim defines "passing" in this instance.Hey John,
Is this in response to a Bristol race? I'm asking because in our league race
on Sunday I ended up parking the car to try and make sense out of the BF
calls guys were making. What I found was that while they hadn't passed
anyone going into the pits when they came out out the back pits and were
circling around to the front set they would get a BF if they had happened to
advance past another car that was on the track. To me this is a serious bug
that needs to be looked at by Papy.
Mike Horton
http://www.cta-racing.com/gscl
"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (69 lines)
> With the recent controversy surrounding bogus black flags, I thought > it was a good time to re-iterate some of the finer points of black > flag avoidance. Many times, people just plain don't understand what > happened because their brain goes blank and their eyes turn red as > soon as the spotter tells them that they have been given a black flag > for something. LISTEN TO THE SPOTTER. He will tell you why you got > the black flag, and how to clear it. > > First, avoiding black flags requires that you are aware of how the > sim awards them. It is up to you to know this, and I've found that a > valid discovery process involves racing offline against the AI. DO > NOT make the mistake of assuming that the sim accurately models real- > life Nascar. > > 1) DO NOT pass any cars on your way to pit road. If you do, you will > get a black flag. This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in > rule in the sim. This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by > admins. > > 2) DO NOT pass any cars that have elected to pit while you have not. > This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in rule in the sim. > This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by admins. > > 3) DO NOT pass cars on the inside on a restart (remember, the > "inside" is reversed on road courses) before you pass the > start/finish line. > > 4) If one or more cars wreck on a restart, go ahead and pass them, > and the admins will try to clear your black flag. When I say "wreck > on the restart", I mean that they're flailing around in the infield > spinnning and bumping into things, and they are most assuredly not in > the racing line. This will be especially true as we come out of the > last turn and just before the green flag flies. > > 5) Turn your spottter on "HIGH" and DO NOT use the text version of > the spotter. Listen to what he says to you. Many times, a black flag > is cleared by just driving thru the pits, and the spotter WILL tell > you this. If you stop in your pit stall in the case of a drive-thru, > the black flag WILL NOT be cleared. > > 6) You cannot clear a black flag until you've crossed the > start/finish line on a restart. This means you pretty much have to > complete a full lap under green before trying to clear the black > flag. > > 7) You cannot clear a black flag during a caution. If you are trying > to clear a black flag under green, and the caution comes out BEFORE > you cross the entry line to pit road, DO NOT ENTER PIT ROAD. This > will result in a penalty for entering a closed pit, and you'll be > forced to the end of the longest line, and your black flag will still > be pending. If you cross the pit entry line BEFORE the caution comes > out, you will be allowed to clear your black flag, and you won't be > penalized with entering a closed pit. > > 8) You must clear a black flag before you've made three green flag > laps. If you don't, you'll be DQ'd. Many times, your inability to > clear the flag is based entirely on your confusion over how to clear > the flag. LISTEN TO YOUR SPOTTER - HE ONLY TELLS YOU ONE TIME HOW TO > CLEAR THE FLAG. > > If someone is awarded a black flag, and they think it's bogus, I > think the admin should force a caution in order to safely clear the > flag. > > You better be double-damn sure the black flag is *really* a bogus > one. If the admins think there's too many claims of bogus black > flags, they're gonna stop clearing them, and you'll just have to deal > with it. >In article <iTlga.7875$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren"
<[email hidden]> writes:
That's what I thought. So then if that car slams on the brakes(say, to get
under the pits speed limit), then you can get screwed...
Eldred
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Quoted text (7 lines)
>"Mika Takala" wrote... >> > <snip> >> this is not true, at least it wasn't for N2002. > >The black flag is awarded if you're ahead of the other car when it crosses >the line denoting the start of the pits and pitroad speedlimit in both >games.In article <sQrga.43$[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
As far as I know, you have to correct the errant pass *before* you
cross the s/f line again. At bristol, this can sometimes be hard to
do.
One other thing - since the pace car is a ghost car now, I don't know
if it will slow down if you are blocking the track. Once you are
passed by the pace car while a caution is underway, if you pass it
back, you might get a black flag.
These aren't necessarily bugs as much as they are drivers not paying
attention to what they're doing. Granted, sometimes, the situation
just gets you all confused, and you are bound to make a mistake once
in a while. My personal opinion is that if a driver makes a mistake,
he pays for the mistake, and while it might be reasonable to gripe
about it, calling it a bug in the sim is often a bit over the top.
Quoted text (9 lines)
> Hey John, > > Is this in response to a Bristol race? I'm asking because in our league race > on Sunday I ended up parking the car to try and make sense out of the BF > calls guys were making. What I found was that while they hadn't passed > anyone going into the pits when they came out out the back pits and were > circling around to the front set they would get a BF if they had happened to > advance past another car that was on the track. To me this is a serious bug > that needs to be looked at by Papy.In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
Only if you're going as fast as he was when he approached the pits.
If everyone's under caution, he should already be going at or pretty
close to the speed limit for pit road, so slamming on the brakes the
way I think you meant should not be an issue.
I think it was Dave Henrie (or maybe Ed Solheim) that mentioned
putting up the F2 live interval display while under caution is a good
way to determine your position relative to the car in front of you,
and that should lessen the chances of getting a passing under yellow
penalty as you approach the entrance to pit road.
Of course, on the approach to pit road, EVERYBODY should be aware of
the possibility of sudden/abrupt braking by the car in front of them,
and should therefore not follow directly behind the car in front of
them.
Quoted text (13 lines)
> In article <iTlga.7875$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >"Mika Takala" wrote... > >> > <snip> > >> this is not true, at least it wasn't for N2002. > > > >The black flag is awarded if you're ahead of the other car when it crosses > >the line denoting the start of the pits and pitroad speedlimit in both > >games. > > That's what I thought. So then if that car slams on the brakes(say, to get > under the pits speed limit), then you can get screwed...>"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote
> I think it was Dave Henrie (or maybe Ed Solheim) that mentioned
> putting up the F2 live interval display while under caution is a good
> way to determine your position relative to the car in front of you,
> and that should lessen the chances of getting a passing under yellow
> penalty as you approach the entrance to pit road.
Yes, F2 live internal is _essential_ during cautions and it should be
obligatory. Considering that a car which is pitting and a car which stays
on the track are both at a different "radius" of the oval, those interval
can change drastically when you go into the pits, since both cars are on a
different level of the track.
--
-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
-- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
Dave Henrie wrote:
Fair if unworkable (they also tried a flashing lights system-in the
late 70's IIRC)-I have seen a number of drivers get screwed out
of a win by a late caution-it happened to Dale Jr. last year (forget
the race-he had a 5-10 second lead with 20 laps to go, caution
comes out, and he ends up fifth).
So I almost always race sans cautions-the race goes by
quicker, it is decided on the track and not by the timing of
some backmarker's spinout, and it's also fun dodging wrecks. :-)
John DiFool
--
============================================
Reach heaven far too high
============================================
Quoted text (10 lines)
> > I would think it would be up to you, the driver, to maintain your spot > behind whichever car stayed out ahead of you. You can use the side look > keys or the F2 key which, after hitting the spacebar, shows real-time track > placement. > Be thankful this isn't the 60's at Indy...there you were expected to > maintain your distance when the yellow flew...so that if you were 10 car > lengths behind when the yellow came out...you must circle the track and > stay 10 car lengths back until you pit or the green comes out. > dave henrie>
>Only if you're going as fast as he was when he approached the pits.
>If everyone's under caution, he should already be going at or pretty
>close to the speed limit for pit road, so slamming on the brakes the
>way I think you meant should not be an issue.
>You might think, but remember the pit road speed limit is often 5-10mph slower
than the pace speed. So while you might be fine on the track, people *will*
need to slow down more than that as they get to pit road.
>I think it was Dave Henrie (or maybe Ed Solheim) that mentioned
>putting up the F2 live interval display while under caution is a good
>way to determine your position relative to the car in front of you,
>and that should lessen the chances of getting a passing under yellow
>penalty as you approach the entrance to pit road.
Yep - already do. And some people will just have to be more patient as the
cars pass pit road. Everyone wants to make up time, and "close it up". It's
obvious that such action isn't always the best thing to do...
Eldred
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>These aren't necessarily bugs as much as they are drivers not paying
>attention to what they're doing. Granted, sometimes, the situation
>just gets you all confused, and you are bound to make a mistake once
>in a while. My personal opinion is that if a driver makes a mistake,
>he pays for the mistake, and while it might be reasonable to gripe
>about it, calling it a bug in the sim is often a bit over the top.
When your spotter tells you to pass a car that's in front of you, and also stay
behind a car that's already behind you, I think that qualifies as a bug...
That happened to me in the first caution Saturday, and cost me another couple
laps clearing the BF. There often doesn't seem to be enough time(at Bristol)
bewtween an incident and the time that the first car goes into the pits to sort
everything out.
Eldred
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> So I almost always race sans cautions-the race goes by
>quicker, it is decided on the track and not by the timing of
>some backmarker's spinout, and it's also fun dodging wrecks. :-)
We tried a couple of 'no-yellow' races, and the overwhelming majority was
against it. Also, it's not always 'some backmarker' that causes the yellow...
Eldred
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In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
Curiously enough, I won both of those races... :)
Quoted text (9 lines)
> > So I almost always race sans cautions-the race goes by > >quicker, it is decided on the track and not by the timing of > >some backmarker's spinout, and it's also fun dodging wrecks. :-) > > We tried a couple of 'no-yellow' races, and the overwhelming majority was > against it. Also, it's not always 'some backmarker' that causes the yellow... > > Eldred >Read what I wrote again John. The driver had legally entered the pits
without passing anyone, cruised through the back pits at pit road speed
limit, comes to the corner (that's still considered part of the pits) and
because of the smaller diameter turn he passes a car that is out on the
racing surface (he never once came close to exceeding the pit road speed
limit). The driver on pit road then gets a bf for passing under yellow. How
can you sat it's over the top to call that a bug? What else would you call
getting a BF for passing not before, not after but WHILE you are on pit
road?
Michael Horton
http://www.cta-racing.com/gscl
"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (16 lines)
> As far as I know, you have to correct the errant pass *before* you > cross the s/f line again. At bristol, this can sometimes be hard to > do. > > One other thing - since the pace car is a ghost car now, I don't know > if it will slow down if you are blocking the track. Once you are > passed by the pace car while a caution is underway, if you pass it > back, you might get a black flag. > > These aren't necessarily bugs as much as they are drivers not paying > attention to what they're doing. Granted, sometimes, the situation > just gets you all confused, and you are bound to make a mistake once > in a while. My personal opinion is that if a driver makes a mistake, > he pays for the mistake, and while it might be reasonable to gripe > about it, calling it a bug in the sim is often a bit over the top. >In article <UwRga.55227$[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
I'm not saying that your particular example isn't a bug, I'm saying
that 'many times", saying a bf problem is a bug is not correct.
As far as passing a car that's on the track while you're on pit road,
I haven't seen that happen at Bristol (or anywhere else for that
matter), and I've been on pitroad in the lead and passed the pace car
and other racers as well (while being on pit road), and I didn't get
any black flags. Could it have been warp-induced?
Quoted text (9 lines)
> Read what I wrote again John. The driver had legally entered the pits > without passing anyone, cruised through the back pits at pit road speed > limit, comes to the corner (that's still considered part of the pits) and > because of the smaller diameter turn he passes a car that is out on the > racing surface (he never once came close to exceeding the pit road speed > limit). The driver on pit road then gets a bf for passing under yellow. How > can you sat it's over the top to call that a bug? What else would you call > getting a BF for passing not before, not after but WHILE you are on pit > road?I will not pass anyone under caution, entering pits, or passing those who do, until pit entrance.
Old habits die hard :)
--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com
Give that man a Cigar!
I was just going to make a post about this because I think it's why Neil and
I got screwed on Lap 100 and got that "Passing the Pace Car" Black Flag.
We were obviously behind the pace car when we dropped down to pit. Hell, I
even braked to make sure I _didn't_ pass the Pace Car, but I got nailed
anyway.
We can't see out the side like real car drivers can, and when we dropped
down to the apron, the radius we were running (especially at Bristol) closed
up rather remarkably. That's why even though we had slowed down to pit
speed we still managed to pass the damned pace car and get nailed.
It sucks to be up front some times :)
I see this happening next at Martinsville. I don't see it being a problem
until then.
I also screwed myself during that BF stop because I didn't tell the pits NOT
to change tires. I wasn't ready for this. First off, I don't think I've
gotten more than 3 penalties in the last 2 years, so I'm not used to it, but
I also recall that in older versions service wasn't automatically rendered
when you stopped to clear a flag.
That cost me another damned lap.
Larry
"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:I6Ega.5686$[email hidden]...
> Yes, F2 live internal is _essential_ during cautions and it should be
> obligatory. Considering that a car which is pitting and a car which stays
> on the track are both at a different "radius" of the oval, those interval
> can change drastically when you go into the pits, since both cars are on a
> different level of the track.
I do think that Papy has to have some consideration to the fact we cannot
see out the right side of the car like the rule jockeys can.
That's what bit me and Neil at Bristol. The Radius of the track and the
fact that we could not see out the right side bit us.
Larry
"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article <sQrga.43$[email hidden]>,
> [email hidden] says...
> > Hey John,
> >
> > Is this in response to a Bristol race? I'm asking because in our leaguerace
> > on Sunday I ended up parking the car to try and make sense out of the BF
> > calls guys were making. What I found was that while they hadn't passed
> > anyone going into the pits when they came out out the back pits and were
> > circling around to the front set they would get a BF if they hadhappened to
> > advance past another car that was on the track. To me this is a seriousbug
Quoted text (18 lines)
> > that needs to be looked at by Papy. > > As far as I know, you have to correct the errant pass *before* you > cross the s/f line again. At bristol, this can sometimes be hard to > do. > > One other thing - since the pace car is a ghost car now, I don't know > if it will slow down if you are blocking the track. Once you are > passed by the pace car while a caution is underway, if you pass it > back, you might get a black flag. > > These aren't necessarily bugs as much as they are drivers not paying > attention to what they're doing. Granted, sometimes, the situation > just gets you all confused, and you are bound to make a mistake once > in a while. My personal opinion is that if a driver makes a mistake, > he pays for the mistake, and while it might be reasonable to gripe > about it, calling it a bug in the sim is often a bit over the top. >"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:Wh3ha.428$[email hidden]:
A) there are look left and right keys available for use
B) There is the F2 real time mode(f2 then spacebar) which shows your
posistion relative to the pack. Why this is an issue is beyond me. You
guys are all smart enough to go fast...you 'should' be smart enough to go
slow! :)
dave(who ain't smart enough for the first part to worry about the 2nd)
henrie
Quoted text (8 lines)
> I do think that Papy has to have some consideration to the fact we > cannot see out the right side of the car like the rule jockeys can. > > That's what bit me and Neil at Bristol. The Radius of the track and > the fact that we could not see out the right side bit us. > > Larry >I hope to heaven people don't use the look left/right keys. We can't even
pace right looking forward!
I know about the F2 key of course :)
Larry
"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
