I Got To Thinking About My Dislike For...

...Papy forcing aids to be on for digital controllers, and there is a way around the problem. Why couldn't a dev code something that would "simulate" a analog axis rate for digital controllers? Picture this. I'm using a joystick, and I've got button 1 selected for throttle. With this new 'routine', whenever I press button 1 the simulated axis rate would increase at a specific rate of travel. The travel would, of course, have slider where you could tune it to your desire...aka; between instant acceleration (stomping on the pedal) or gradual acceleration. This would also be limited to accel and brake, which left/right control would be just about useless using such a method. Yes, it would take some time to add the code. However, it seems to me like a great fix for their horrible design (forcing aids). I believe NASCAR Heat did something similar to this, minus the slider (as far as I know...only tried the demo). What are your thoughts on this? -Will

Let me add something to that post before someone misunderstands me. :) Yes, Papy already does something close to this (simulating a axis for accel and brake buttons, it seems). Yet, we don't have access to editing the sensitivity to the accel/brake (Or do we? If we do, then why don't we have a in-game slider?). Here's my thinking: 1. Traction Control is linked to a button that is used for throttle. If we're able to set the sensitivity how we want (less accel so quickly, thus more stable), then there would be no need for this option to be forced on. 2. Anti-Lock Brakes is linked to a button that is used for braking. The above argument remains the same. -Will

William Bradshaw wrote: > ...Papy forcing aids to be on for digital controllers, and there is a > way around the problem. > <SNIP> > What are your thoughts on this? Why not just buy a wheel and pedals? Gerry

Gerry Aitken wrote:

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> William Bradshaw wrote: > >> ...Papy forcing aids to be on for digital controllers, and there is a >> way around the problem. >> > <SNIP> > >> What are your thoughts on this? > > > > Why not just buy a wheel and pedals? > > Gerry >

You have a point (too bad I'm broke), but why limit the game to non-wheel drivers? Yes, dude, I call forcing any options on to be limiting. What I've proposed is a feasible solution to a problem for non-wheel drivers. Do you disagree with it? Should customers be required to own a wheel to play and enjoy this game to it's full ability? -Will

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> >You have a point (too bad I'm broke), but why limit the game to >non-wheel drivers? Yes, dude, I call forcing any options on to be limiting. > >What I've proposed is a feasible solution to a problem for non-wheel >drivers. Do you disagree with it? Should customers be required to own a >wheel to play and enjoy this game to it's full ability?

I'm sure there are limits to how many people a company can satisfy. It comes down to return on investment. If a title sells 10,000 copies, but 100 people won't buy it because of a specific feature(or lack thereof), is it worth the effort to get those last 100 customers? We see the same arguments about savegames. Most people think it should at least be an OPTION, but for whatever reasons, the companies haven't complied. Are the publishers worried about the few people who *say* they won't buy(I think some buy it anyway) Game X if it doesn't have a savegame feature? Doubtful. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.950 MonsterRank: +305.145 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote:

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>>You have a point (too bad I'm broke), but why limit the game to >>non-wheel drivers? Yes, dude, I call forcing any options on to be limiting. >> >>What I've proposed is a feasible solution to a problem for non-wheel >>drivers. Do you disagree with it? Should customers be required to own a >>wheel to play and enjoy this game to it's full ability? > > > I'm sure there are limits to how many people a company can satisfy. It comes > down to return on investment. If a title sells 10,000 copies, but 100 people > won't buy it because of a specific feature(or lack thereof), is it worth the > effort to get those last 100 customers? We see the same arguments about > savegames. Most people think it should at least be an OPTION, but for whatever > reasons, the companies haven't complied. Are the publishers worried about the > few people who *say* they won't buy(I think some buy it anyway) Game X if it > doesn't have a savegame feature? Doubtful. > > Eldred

You're right, in that fixing it doesn't mean a goddamn thing to anyone except for a few customers. Will our opinions be heard, let alone considered? Not likely. It's also a mixed bag about not buying software because of something being forced on or not included. The customer has the final decision, but in the end Sierra has already made the sale to the outlet. While it's annoying to hear debate rage on about save games, it angers me to see a software company say, in effect, "Screw you buddy. You don't own a wheel!" when it comes down to hindering my enjoyment (and certainly others as well) of their product. In a sense, this shouldn't even compare to adding in a save game "feature". The save game idea has been ruled out time and time again. Am I wrong for wanting to see more people being able to enjoy the software they purchased? Fer Christ's sake, even NASCAR Thunder 2003 doesn't place restrictions on the non-wheel drivers. I invite everyone to put away their wheels for a week and try racing with a joystick. Come back and tell me that Papy didn't make a bad decision, nor are they willing to toss in any sort of fix or quick fix. I'm not saying I won't buy the next and last installment, just not until I have enough money together for a wheel. Even if I did have the money to buy the title at this very moment, I wouldn't support Papy because they refuse to properly support non-wheel drivers. I hope you can at least understand my reasoning and ramblings in all of this. :) -Will

"EldredP" wrote...

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> > <snip> > I'm sure there are limits to how many people a company can > satisfy. It comes down to return on investment. If a > title sells 10,000 copies, but 100 people won't buy it > because of a specific feature(or lack thereof), is it worth > the effort to get those last 100 customers? We see the > same arguments about savegames. Most people think it > should at least be an OPTION, but for whatever reasons, the > companies haven't complied. Are the publishers worried > about the few people who *say* they won't buy (I think some > buy it anyway) Game X if it doesn't have a savegame > feature? Doubtful.

And threading shakey ground as to how representative people who are vocal about certain aspects are with regard to the general buying public. Jan. =--

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> > > > Why not just buy a wheel and pedals? > > > > Gerry > > > > You have a point (too bad I'm broke), but why limit the game to > non-wheel drivers? Yes, dude, I call forcing any options on to be

limiting.

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> > What I've proposed is a feasible solution to a problem for non-wheel > drivers. Do you disagree with it? Should customers be required to own a > wheel to play and enjoy this game to it's full ability? > > -Will >

I think your being a little unreasonable, a simple analog joystick would do the job, even second hand would cost about $5-$10 keyboards aren't for sims :) Ash http://www.siroccoracing.com

Jan Verschueren wrote:

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> "EldredP" wrote... > >>><snip> >> >>I'm sure there are limits to how many people a company can >>satisfy. It comes down to return on investment. If a >>title sells 10,000 copies, but 100 people won't buy it >>because of a specific feature(or lack thereof), is it worth >>the effort to get those last 100 customers? We see the >>same arguments about savegames. Most people think it >>should at least be an OPTION, but for whatever reasons, the >>companies haven't complied. Are the publishers worried >>about the few people who *say* they won't buy (I think some >>buy it anyway) Game X if it doesn't have a savegame >>feature? Doubtful. > > > And threading shakey ground as to how representative people who are vocal > about certain aspects are with regard to the general buying public. > > Jan. > =-- > >

I take it you're referring to my post. Just to clarify myself, I didn't mean for my constructive idea to come across as "everyone needs it". In another post in this thread, I go far as to state "...and certainly others as well". Meaning just that, others. By no means does it mean everyone, or a majority. In all likelyhood, it's a very small minority of customers. It's merely something that I believe would give back full control to non-wheel drivers, doing away with the need for Traction Control and Anti-Lock Brakes. But don't worry Jan, I guarantee you that nothing will ever come of this. NASCAR Thunder will pick up the slack in this area, and have already done so to a great extent. :) -Will

Ashley McConnell wrote:

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> > > I think your being a little unreasonable, a simple analog joystick would do > the job, even second hand would cost about $5-$10 > > keyboards aren't for sims :) > > Ash > http://www.siroccoracing.com > >

But you see, I already have a simple analog joystick, Ashley. ;) I just map the throttle and brake to the two buttons on it. Give NASCAR Heat a try with a joystick(cudos to it's dev's), they've gotten it down to a near science. It's a terrible habit from NASCAR Racing 2, yet it's how I'm comfortable with driving in any sim with this wretched thing. :) -Will

In article <[email hidden]>, William Bradshaw <[email hidden]> writes:

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>I invite everyone to put away their wheels for a week and try racing >with a joystick. Come back and tell me that Papy didn't make a bad >decision, nor are they willing to toss in any sort of fix or quick fix. > >I'm not saying I won't buy the next and last installment, just not until >I have enough money together for a wheel. Even if I did have the money >to buy the title at this very moment, I wouldn't support Papy because >they refuse to properly support non-wheel drivers. > >I hope you can at least understand my reasoning and ramblings in all of >this. :)

No problem, Will. Different people want different things out of the games they play. And while your 'joystick challenge' is interesting, it wouldn't really prove anything. Most people who use a wheel now would have problems re-adjusting to a joystick *anyway*... And honestly - I've forgotten what you said was forced on when using a stick...sorry.<blush> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.950 MonsterRank: +305.145 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I don't know how you ever got into that habit. Even in the days of yore when I used a joystick for my racing games, forward and back were always accel/brake, so it is always assigned to an analog control. Who assigns throttle/brake to buttons on an analog joystick besides you? You are the only person I have heard of(I'm sure there are others that do so no need to spout off now) that assigns throttle/brake to buttons on their joystick instead of of forward and back. That would be like assigning dive and climb to joystick buttons in a flight sim.... -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash "William Bradshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Ashley McConnell wrote: > > > > > > I think your being a little unreasonable, a simple analog joystick would do > > the job, even second hand would cost about $5-$10 > > > > keyboards aren't for sims :) > > > > Ash > > http://www.siroccoracing.com > > > > > > But you see, I already have a simple analog joystick, Ashley. ;) > > I just map the throttle and brake to the two buttons on it. Give NASCAR > Heat a try with a joystick(cudos to it's dev's), they've gotten it down > to a near science. > > It's a terrible habit from NASCAR Racing 2, yet it's how I'm comfortable > with driving in any sim with this wretched thing. :) > > -Will >

On Sat, 26 Apr 2003 18:43:17 -0500, William Bradshaw <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Ashley McConnell wrote: >> >> I think your being a little unreasonable, a simple analog joystick would do >> the job, even second hand would cost about $5-$10 >> >> keyboards aren't for sims :) > >But you see, I already have a simple analog joystick, Ashley. ;) > >I just map the throttle and brake to the two buttons on it. Give NASCAR >Heat a try with a joystick(cudos to it's dev's), they've gotten it down >to a near science.

Why not buy a *second* stick, as Ash recommends. Set up your right hand stick to steer in the x-axis. Set up the left stick to accelerate (forward) / brake (back) in the y-axis. It works for me (two tiny CH joysticks, looks similar to an RC plane TX set-up). It gives you the benefit of putting steering and throttle/brake on separate sticks, handled by separate hands, making it less confusing to coordinate. Not to mention full analog control of throttle and brake. One downside is the inability to have separate axes for throttle & brake (no tapping the brake to set the car in turns while you still have some throttle on). >It's a terrible habit from NASCAR Racing 2, yet it's how I'm comfortable >with driving in any sim with this wretched thing. :) When I got NASCAR 1, I found that using the buttons on a single stick would no longer cut it (you could get away with it in ICR1). Change is good. :) "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

>"William Bradshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote > I just map the throttle and brake to the two buttons on it. Give NASCAR > Heat a try with a joystick(cudos to it's dev's), they've gotten it down > to a near science. Yeah I'm sure the 10 people in the world pushing a button on their joystick to accelerate must love Nascar Heat. Trust me, there's a _reason_ for that. For Papy, it is more important to have a safer and more regulated online racing presence then to take the chance of completely obliterating that by having a toggle for that option. You know, the average gamer _is_ stupid, and he would be enough stupid to turn it off, even if that means being a more dangerous driver. Anyway, just buy a set of pedals and Y-connector them to the joystick. Kudos to Papy for standing on their motorsport values. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

William Bradshaw wrote:

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> Gerry Aitken wrote: > >> William Bradshaw wrote: >> >>> ...Papy forcing aids to be on for digital controllers, and there is a >>> way around the problem. >>> >> <SNIP> >> >>> What are your thoughts on this? >> >> >> >> >> Why not just buy a wheel and pedals? >> >> Gerry >> > > You have a point (too bad I'm broke), but why limit the game to > non-wheel drivers? Yes, dude, I call forcing any options on to be limiting.

Amazing, I knew you'd say you were broke. I must be psychic. But I see what you are after, a canned response that you can adjust so it will be the same every time. But in RL the more money you invest the faster you go. Why should sim racing be any different?

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> > What I've proposed is a feasible solution to a problem for non-wheel > drivers. Do you disagree with it? Should customers be required to own a > wheel to play and enjoy this game to it's full ability? > > -Will >

In the case of a simulation like GPL the use of wheel and pedals is the only way to get full enjoyment, imo. The feeling of immersion just isn't there when using buttons, or a stick, come to that. Well, not for me anyway. Gerry

William Bradshaw wrote:

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> Ashley McConnell wrote: > >> >> >> I think your being a little unreasonable, a simple analog joystick >> would do >> the job, even second hand would cost about $5-$10 >> >> keyboards aren't for sims :) >> >> Ash >> http://www.siroccoracing.com >> >> > > But you see, I already have a simple analog joystick, Ashley. ;) > > I just map the throttle and brake to the two buttons on it. Give NASCAR > Heat a try with a joystick(cudos to it's dev's), they've gotten it down > to a near science. > > It's a terrible habit from NASCAR Racing 2, yet it's how I'm comfortable > with driving in any sim with this wretched thing. :) > > -Will >

Now I understand...user error on your part has screwed your own enjoyment.

ymenard wrote:

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>>"William Bradshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote >>I just map the throttle and brake to the two buttons on it. Give NASCAR >>Heat a try with a joystick(cudos to it's dev's), they've gotten it down >>to a near science. > > > > Yeah I'm sure the 10 people in the world pushing a button on their joystick > to accelerate must love Nascar Heat. Trust me, there's a _reason_ for that. > For Papy, it is more important to have a safer and more regulated online > racing presence then to take the chance of completely obliterating that by > having a toggle for that option. You know, the average gamer _is_ stupid, > and he would be enough stupid to turn it off, even if that means being a > more dangerous driver. > > > > Anyway, just buy a set of pedals and Y-connector them to the joystick. > > > > Kudos to Papy for standing on their motorsport values.

Agreed 100% Will, use analog controllers where they are available, buttons are for looking left and right, oh and dropping bombs of course.

Gerry Aitken wrote: > > Now I understand...user error on your part has screwed your own enjoyment. > Care to explain to me how it's "user error" on my part, please? Before you do, don't forget that Papy made it possible to use digital input for throttle and brake. Is it my fault that I'm not having a good time because of their design? Or is it simply a case of Papy having it exactly right, and I'm wrong? Forcing aids is right when there is a way around it? If it comes down to "Will is not staying within the standards", then either Papy should remove it, or refine it. In my opinion, that's the right thing to do. Either support it as best you can and make it work, or don't bother at all. Thankfully, the "other" two noteworthy sims (NASCAR Heat and NASCAR Thunder 2003) support my "user error" to a better extent than Papy has. I'll go out on a limb here and say that instead of fixing problems in this area, it is comparable to the infamous "wall glue". Instead of doing things right, the dev's just become lazy and apply a quick fix and require it to be a standard. Just as you're telling me to buy a wheel, the reply to the wall glue is "stay off the wall". Both inhibit gameplay. And, no, this isn't a wall glue argument. I'm trying to link this situation with another that everyone (well, most anyways) is well aware of. -Will

EldredP wrote:

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> > No problem, Will. Different people want different things out of the games they > play. And while your 'joystick challenge' is interesting, it wouldn't really > prove anything. Most people who use a wheel now would have problems > re-adjusting to a joystick *anyway*... > And honestly - I've forgotten what you said was forced on when using a > stick...sorry.<blush> > > Eldred

Thank you for acknowledging and understanding my point, even if we disagree on whether or not it should be improved, or important. -Will

"William Bradshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Ashley McConnell wrote: > > > > > > I think your being a little unreasonable, a simple analog joystick woulddo

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> > the job, even second hand would cost about $5-$10 > > > > keyboards aren't for sims :) > > > > Ash > > http://www.siroccoracing.com > > > > > > But you see, I already have a simple analog joystick, Ashley. ;) > > I just map the throttle and brake to the two buttons on it. Give NASCAR > Heat a try with a joystick(cudos to it's dev's), they've gotten it down > to a near science. > > It's a terrible habit from NASCAR Racing 2, yet it's how I'm comfortable > with driving in any sim with this wretched thing. :) > > -Will >

I understand you have got into the habit, but i promise you that you will love these games so much more if you bite the bullet and go fully analogue. I'd suggest really going for it and getting a wheel, they have really came down in price recently. All the best, Ash http://www.siroccoracing.com

Ashley McConnell wrote:

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> > I understand you have got into the habit, but i promise you that you will > love these games so much more if you bite the bullet and go fully analogue. > I'd suggest really going for it and getting a wheel, they have really came > down in price recently. > > All the best, > Ash > http://www.siroccoracing.com >

You're right, I did love the Papy games with my wheel. But after the paddle I used for throttle broke, coupled with the horrible and tiny pedals I got with it, my only real option was to revert back to a joystick (and thank god for my love of flight sims, otherwise I'd be in worse shape :). Really, it's the only reason I'm bitching is because I can see some of the problems of "non-standard" contollers with this particular series of game. OT, if all goes well locally in available jobs (recently, there hasn't been /anything/ open) I should have a el-cheapo wheel from the first paycheck. Or I'll hold off a few weeks and get a TSW. I'm still up in the air about it. -Will

In article <zaGqa.51319$[email hidden]>, "Biz" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>I don't know how you ever got into that habit. Even in the days of yore when >I used a joystick for >my racing games, forward and back were always accel/brake, so it is always >assigned to an analog >control. Who assigns throttle/brake to buttons on an analog joystick besides >you? You are the only >person I have heard of(I'm sure there are others that do so no need to spout >off now) that assigns >throttle/brake to buttons on their joystick instead of of forward and back. >That would be like >assigning dive and climb to joystick buttons in a flight sim....

Not spouting off<g>, but I can give you a reason why. For me, it was impossible to maintain good braking/throttle control using the forward/backward axis. When I'd go into the turns, I'd be unable to control my braking correctly. I know that some can do it fine - I couldn't. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.950 MonsterRank: +305.145 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote:

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> > Not spouting off<g>, but I can give you a reason why. For me, it was > impossible to maintain good braking/throttle control using the forward/backward > axis. When I'd go into the turns, I'd be unable to control my braking > correctly. I know that some can do it fine - I couldn't. > > Eldred

Same here. That's precisely the reason I don't set my controller up like that. Trying to slow down or accelerate while keeping the X-axis in same spot is pretty damn tough, IMO. Using buttons, I have much more control and attention to my car and how it's reacting instead of trying to multi-task the brake/throttle. You're not alone. :) -Will

William Bradshaw wrote:

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> Gerry Aitken wrote: > >> >> Now I understand...user error on your part has screwed your own >> enjoyment. >> > > Care to explain to me how it's "user error" on my part, please?

How hard did you try? I'd bet, not very. Give it six weeks and i'd bet you'd have no trouble using joystick axis for brake and throttle. But what is easier, to try or to whine?

Ashley McConnell wrote:

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> "William Bradshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > >>Ashley McConnell wrote: >> >>> >>>I think your being a little unreasonable, a simple analog joystick would >> > do > >>>the job, even second hand would cost about $5-$10 >>> >>>keyboards aren't for sims :) >>> >>>Ash >>>http://www.siroccoracing.com >>> >>> >> >>But you see, I already have a simple analog joystick, Ashley. ;) >> >>I just map the throttle and brake to the two buttons on it. Give NASCAR >>Heat a try with a joystick(cudos to it's dev's), they've gotten it down >>to a near science. >> >>It's a terrible habit from NASCAR Racing 2, yet it's how I'm comfortable >>with driving in any sim with this wretched thing. :) >> >>-Will >> > > > I understand you have got into the habit, but i promise you that you will > love these games so much more if you bite the bullet and go fully analogue. > I'd suggest really going for it and getting a wheel, they have really came > down in price recently.

Ash, this guys is just going to whine. Gerry

William Bradshaw wrote:

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> Ashley McConnell wrote: > >> >> I understand you have got into the habit, but i promise you that you will >> love these games so much more if you bite the bullet and go fully >> analogue. >> I'd suggest really going for it and getting a wheel, they have really >> came >> down in price recently. >> >> All the best, >> Ash >> http://www.siroccoracing.com >> > > You're right, I did love the Papy games with my wheel. But after the > paddle I used for throttle broke, coupled with the horrible and tiny > pedals I got with it, my only real option was to revert back to a > joystick (and thank god for my love of flight sims, otherwise I'd be in > worse shape :). > > Really, it's the only reason I'm bitching is because I can see some of > the problems of "non-standard" contollers with this particular series of > game. > > OT, if all goes well locally in available jobs (recently, there hasn't > been /anything/ open) I should have a el-cheapo wheel from the first > paycheck. Or I'll hold off a few weeks and get a TSW. I'm still up in > the air about it.

A TSW? And I thought you were broke! Gerry

Gerry Aitken wrote:

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>> >> OT, if all goes well locally in available jobs (recently, there hasn't >> been /anything/ open) I should have a el-cheapo wheel from the first >> paycheck. Or I'll hold off a few weeks and get a TSW. I'm still up in >> the air about it. > > > > A TSW? And I thought you were broke! > > Gerry >

Hey, Mr. Attitude, which part of the message didn't you understand? Do I really need to break it down sentence by sentence for you to comprehend it all? Here, let me help you. "OT, if all goes well locally in available jobs (recently, there hasn't been /anything/ open)" Just about anyone would understand that this would mean that while I, Will, am not working at the moment I will soon be going back out to look. Maybe I, Will, will get lucky if there are any jobs available locally. "I should have a el-cheapo wheel from the first paycheck." This means that upon getting my first paycheck, if I can find anything for work, I will spend it on a cheap wheel. "Or I'll hold off a few weeks and get a TSW. I'm still up in the air about it." This means that my other option instead of buying a cheap wheel, I'll wait and save up money to buy a TSW. Therefore, Gerry Aitken, yes I am broke. Any questions? -Will

Gerry Aitken wrote: > > > Ash, this guys is just going to whine. > > Gerry > In your mind it may be whining. To me, whining is trying to get a point across without offering any constructive ideas. Your posts have shown to me that you're not interested in discussion, just you treating your opinions as fact. I'll be sure not to waste my time, nor yours, by replying to you any further. -Will

Unbiased observation..... Will..... you don't post very well......leaving yourself open to this 'Gerry' attack AD.

William Bradshaw wrote:

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> Gerry Aitken wrote: > >>> >>> OT, if all goes well locally in available jobs (recently, there >>> hasn't been /anything/ open) I should have a el-cheapo wheel from the >>> first paycheck. Or I'll hold off a few weeks and get a TSW. I'm still >>> up in the air about it. >> >> >> >> >> A TSW? And I thought you were broke! >> >> Gerry >> > > Hey, Mr. Attitude, which part of the message didn't you understand? Do I > really need to break it down sentence by sentence for you to comprehend > it all? Here, let me help you. > > "OT, if all goes well locally in available jobs (recently, there hasn't > been /anything/ open)" > > Just about anyone would understand that this would mean that while I, > Will, am not working at the moment I will soon be going back out to > look. Maybe I, Will, will get lucky if there are any jobs available > locally. > > "I should have a el-cheapo wheel from the first paycheck." > > This means that upon getting my first paycheck, if I can find anything > for work, I will spend it on a cheap wheel. > > "Or I'll hold off a few weeks and get a TSW. I'm still up in the air > about it." > > This means that my other option instead of buying a cheap wheel, I'll > wait and save up money to buy a TSW. > > Therefore, Gerry Aitken, yes I am broke. Any questions? > > -Will >

Yeah, when will you stop whining?

William Bradshaw wrote:

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> Gerry Aitken wrote: > >> >> >> Ash, this guys is just going to whine. >> >> Gerry >> > > In your mind it may be whining. To me, whining is trying to get a point > across without offering any constructive ideas. Your posts have shown to > me that you're not interested in discussion, just you treating your > opinions as fact. I'll be sure not to waste my time, nor yours, by > replying to you any further. > > -Will >

Great. What will you be after next, a click and win button? Sort your own shit out. I'll reiterate the point you chose to ignore: In real racing, the more money you throw at it the faster you can expect to go! Why should sim racing be any different? Yeah, I know, you ain't going to answer! Frank hit the nail on the head. You are in a tiny minority of people who won't even do themselves a favor, so why should papy? Yours sneeringly GDA

William Bradshaw wrote: > I hope you can at least understand my reasoning and ramblings in all of > this. :) I get it. Sort of like picketing Hollywood to provide an option on DVDs to "Optimize for 2 inch TV screen".

William Bradshaw <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> ...Papy forcing aids to be on for digital controllers, and there is a > way around the problem. > > Why couldn't a dev code something that would "simulate" a analog axis > rate for digital controllers? Picture this. I'm using a joystick, and > I've got button 1 selected for throttle. With this new 'routine', > whenever I press button 1 the simulated axis rate would increase at a > specific rate of travel. The travel would, of course, have slider where > you could tune it to your desire...aka; between instant acceleration > (stomping on the pedal) or gradual acceleration. This would also be > limited to accel and brake, which left/right control would be just about > useless using such a method. > > Yes, it would take some time to add the code. However, it seems to me > like a great fix for their horrible design (forcing aids). > > I believe NASCAR Heat did something similar to this, minus the slider > (as far as I know...only tried the demo). > > What are your thoughts on this?

Take a step back. You're trying to simulate analogue control with an on-off device. I see where you're coming from with the rate of travel issue but why is that any better than traction control? With TC enabled you get as much power as is necessary to accellerate without spinning wheels. If you set a static rate (I don't know how it would be possible to alter mid-race) you'll either be set too slow therefore be slow out of corners and a menace, or too high therefore spinning wheels out of a corner and be a menace. With tyre wear over a run you may get a happy balance for the start of a race but constantly be smoking your tyres as the race goes on. Same argument for ABS. I still have no idea why TC and ABS aren't ideal solutions to the problem of getting fine control out of a switch device. You *do* have the option of forwards/backwards on stick for gas/brake. If it's a big enough issue you will teach yourself how to do this. The game is designed to be used with suitable controllers, but it does *not* exclude those that don't have them. Much like any flight sim, I s'pose. Would you go complain on a flight sim group about not being able to get analogue control out of your keyboard because your stick broke and you can't afford a new one? I have seen wheels with analogue paddles that were cheaper than what I paid for N2003. Good luck with the job hunting, and enjoy the TSW when you get it :) Regards, Mark

Matt Jessick wrote:

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> William Bradshaw wrote: > >> I hope you can at least understand my reasoning and ramblings in all >> of this. :) > > > I get it. Sort of like picketing Hollywood to provide an option > on DVDs to "Optimize for 2 inch TV screen". >

Borrowing a analogy from a recent email exchange about the topic, a gentleman stated (in similar wording): "It's like living in a city, then buying a bike and blaming Honda for not being able to enjoy it in your living room, when you should buy a trailer and then take it to a riding area." While the analogy is correct in one view, mine is: Why buy one bike out of three that doesn't have a trailer, when the other two do? I feel that the gentleman who emailed me, his analogy was more on par than yours is. For yours, it's a situation where there are a total of three DVD's in the market, and two have made it a standard to "Optimize for 2 inch TV screen" (assuming this was a common practice), while the third hasn't followed the standard. -Will

William Bradshaw wrote:

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> Matt Jessick wrote: > >> William Bradshaw wrote: >> >>> I hope you can at least understand my reasoning and ramblings in all >>> of this. :) >> >> >> >> I get it. Sort of like picketing Hollywood to provide an option >> on DVDs to "Optimize for 2 inch TV screen". >> > > Borrowing a analogy from a recent email exchange about the topic, a > gentleman stated (in similar wording): "It's like living in a city, then > buying a bike and blaming Honda for not being able to enjoy it in your > living room, when you should buy a trailer and then take it to a riding > area." > > While the analogy is correct in one view, mine is: Why buy one bike out > of three that doesn't have a trailer, when the other two do? > > I feel that the gentleman who emailed me, his analogy was more on par > than yours is. > > For yours, it's a situation where there are a total of three DVD's in > the market, and two have made it a standard to "Optimize for 2 inch TV > screen" (assuming this was a common practice), while the third hasn't > followed the standard. > > -Will >

Why don't you follow the standard and use the joystick forward/backward for braking and accelerating? There is nothing wrong with the way Papy implemented support for buttons or keys. But of course there is always some twat who will complain. Just do us all a favor and don't race online!