RASCAR: Richmond Post Race

Well, that was fun wasn't it :) I was about 3 laps shy of catching Boster, but had to settle for 4th. But I'm happy because even though I logged an incident, I finished without any damage. That's a feat at this track. My spotter has been fired. He wasn't working worth a DAMN when it came to cars on the outside of me when they were in the complete blind spot. Did anyone else have that problem? I never knew anyone was there half the time. I also lost all chat and F-Key control capabilities for about 4 laps. Not sure what the hell that was all about. It eventually came back. It happened right after I got my Lap back. Thanks for not fighting me too hard on that Ed :) I got a BF for passing while entering the pits. I really don't know why, I was careful to lay back to prevent it but I guess someone slowed on the track or something as I was entering. I'd really like to see something done about this. My hats off to the Lap-down cars. Today was the best manners I've seen yet! On the last restart, I did get caught up in a large group of lap cars and lost about 7 seconds to the lead pack. Not their fault, there was just so many of them to pass. Once I got clear track I was closing up pretty good but ran out of time. And finally my hats off to everyone for using your brakes today. My biggest fear coming into this race was getting continually ass-ended, especially going into turn 3. It never happened to me and I never hit anyone else in the rear. Good job! There were few yellows for this track. Again, great job on everyone's part! Nice win Ian, and nice run Neil. I had something for ya, but I was just too far back to catch up in time :) -Larry

In article <1lUsa.14405$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > And finally my hats off to everyone for using your brakes today. My biggest > fear coming into this race was getting continually ass-ended, especially > going into turn 3. It never happened to me and I never hit anyone else in > the rear. Good job! > Well, almost everyone...

In article <1lUsa.14405$[email hidden]>, "Larry" <[email hidden]> writes: >Well, that was fun wasn't it :) No, it wasn't. For the second time in as many races I've caused the first caution by spinning out. Grrr... Apologies to those affected. I'm getting sick of this. I'm going to sit out for a couple of races until I learn how to drive the fucking thing... Eldred p.s. Ed, the replay is now available. -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.950 MonsterRank: +305.145 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" writes: > No, it wasn't. For the second time in as many races I've caused the first > caution by spinning out. Grrr... Apologies to those affected. It was a tricky setup Eldred... Very loose under braking. > I'm getting sick of this. I'm going to sit out for a couple of racesuntil I > learn how to drive the fucking thing... IMHO, that's the worst thing you can do Eldred! Get your ass back in the races again. If you ever wanna learn how to walk- you gotta rise from the falls and give it another go! > p.s. Ed, the replay is now available. Thanks! d/ling as "we speak" ;o) -- ed_ http://rascar.racesimcentral.com --------------------------------------- $10 say Petter Solberg wins the 2003 WRC

>Well, almost everyone. I'll second that John...

It was a very tricky setup. IMO T1 at Richmond is one of the hardest turns. If you don't hit your mark/brake/etc. you will be all out of shape and can easily spin the car. My appolgies to Ed (sort of). I looked at the replay and it looked like you came down onto me, but I shoulda given more room with that many laps left. I was really driving you up the track and you broke on the turn sooner than I did. You were definetly the fastest guy there and would have most certainly won the race. I was a 5th place car at best. I Chalk it up to one of those racin deals but I should have given a little more than I took. Good job too Larry also, he got stuck in traffice but was catching me by about 2 or 3 10ths per lap... only needed a few more... All in all it was a pretty clean race. Shoulda stuck around John, look at Robby Gordon... 3 laps down and ended up with a top 5. Brian Oster On Sun, 4 May 2003 03:12:13 +0200, "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>"EldredP" writes: > >> No, it wasn't. For the second time in as many races I've caused the first >> caution by spinning out. Grrr... Apologies to those affected. > >It was a tricky setup Eldred... Very loose under braking. > >> I'm getting sick of this. I'm going to sit out for a couple of races >until I >> learn how to drive the fucking thing... > >IMHO, that's the worst thing you can do Eldred! Get your ass back in the >races again. >If you ever wanna learn how to walk- you gotta rise from the falls and give >it another go! > >> p.s. Ed, the replay is now available. > >Thanks! d/ling as "we speak" ;o)

Great race :)) Mostly paranoia for me - spent the first half of the race thinking 'how will I ever get past Ed' and the second half worrying about 'how will I keep Ian behind'. This was interspersed with worries about Larry and Brian. I was never more than 1s out of the lead or 1s in it for the entire race - absolutely intense :)) I also can't believe I just went 160L at Richmond without an incident or a scratch. Real shame about Ed an Larry - could have been a titanic struggle at the end. I think the outcome would have been (and was) decided on who was best on old tyres. Ian showed himself to be the best there so congrats Ian - richly deserved. Keep plugging away Eldred - you know you're steady and safe - you just have to believe it again. cya next time "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1lUsa.14405$[email hidden]...

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> Well, that was fun wasn't it :) > > I was about 3 laps shy of catching Boster, but had to settle for 4th. But > I'm happy because even though I logged an incident, I finished without any > damage. That's a feat at this track. > > My spotter has been fired. He wasn't working worth a DAMN when it came to > cars on the outside of me when they were in the complete blind spot. Did > anyone else have that problem? I never knew anyone was there half the

time.

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> > I also lost all chat and F-Key control capabilities for about 4 laps. Not > sure what the hell that was all about. It eventually came back. It > happened right after I got my Lap back. > > Thanks for not fighting me too hard on that Ed :) > > I got a BF for passing while entering the pits. I really don't know why,

I > was careful to lay back to prevent it but I guess someone slowed on the > track or something as I was entering. I'd really like to see somethingdone > about this. > > My hats off to the Lap-down cars. Today was the best manners I've seenyet!

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> > On the last restart, I did get caught up in a large group of lap cars and > lost about 7 seconds to the lead pack. Not their fault, there was just so > many of them to pass. Once I got clear track I was closing up pretty good > but ran out of time. > > And finally my hats off to everyone for using your brakes today. My

biggest > fear coming into this race was getting continually ass-ended, especially > going into turn 3. It never happened to me and I never hit anyone else in > the rear. Good job! > > There were few yellows for this track. Again, great job on everyone'spart! > > Nice win Ian, and nice run Neil. I had something for ya, but I was justtoo > far back to catch up in time :) > > -Larry > >

In article <3eb4699f$[email hidden]>, "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> writes: >IMHO, that's the worst thing you can do Eldred! Get your ass back in the >races again. >If you ever wanna learn how to walk- you gotta rise from the falls and give >it another go! I've fallen, and I can't get up... I'm currently a liability on the track. And, I don't have the time right now to put in the laps to even get my skill level to 'mediocre'. Maybe I'll have enough practice by the time we get to Charlotte. Maybe Pocono... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.950 MonsterRank: +305.145 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <1lUsa.14405$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > And finally my hats off to everyone for using your brakes today. Mybiggest > > fear coming into this race was getting continually ass-ended, especially > > going into turn 3. It never happened to me and I never hit anyone elsein > > the rear. Good job! > > > > Well, almost everyone... saw that coming. >

In article <b9394p$pkg$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <1lUsa.14405$[email hidden]>, > > [email hidden] says... > > > And finally my hats off to everyone for using your brakes today. My > biggest > > > fear coming into this race was getting continually ass-ended, especially > > > going into turn 3. It never happened to me and I never hit anyone else > in > > > the rear. Good job! > > > > > > > Well, almost everyone... > > > saw that coming. > >

I didn't save the replay. We were on the back stretch i think, so how did you manage to screw the pooch? My first guess is that you simply weren't paying attention. I pretty annoyed/pissed at being eliminated just 3 laps into the race as a result of contact during a caution. I'm getting more pissed off at the sim every time I race. There's no freakin' reason that I should have lost 4th gear due to being hit from behind like that, and there should have been every possibility of the pit crew being able to fix it, but the "ultimate racing sim" doesn't seem to be aware of this possibility. In the patch, I hope they back off the incidental damage a little so most of us can finsih a fuckin' race once in a while. Relaism is fine, but not at the expense of playability and the "fun" factor. I'm ready to recommend that we back the damage off to "moderate" just to avoid problems like this.

I believe I bore the brunt of your little mishap along with you, and I can honestly say the only reason I was around to collect you was the fact I was mere milliseconds from doing the same thing you did. Keep pluggin' I'd say. Now Pocono. I am notoriously bad there. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <3eb4699f$[email hidden]>, "Ed Solheim"<[email hidden]> > writes: > > >IMHO, that's the worst thing you can do Eldred! Get your ass back in the > >races again. > >If you ever wanna learn how to walk- you gotta rise from the falls andgive > >it another go! > > I've fallen, and I can't get up... I'm currently a liability on thetrack. > And, I don't have the time right now to put in the laps to even get myskill > level to 'mediocre'. Maybe I'll have enough practice by the time we getto

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> Charlotte. Maybe Pocono... > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:-1.950 > MonsterRank: +305.145 > N2002 Rank:+17.59 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Sitting out is NOT the thing to do Eldred. You have to stick with it. I mean that. Eventually, that "one little thing" will come to you. It's different for everyone, and if we weren't running fixed setups I may have never found "one little thing" that has allowed me to improve so much this year. By running fixed setups, I proved to myself it was 'me' and not the fact that everyone else was so much better at making open setups. Setups are an important part of it, of course, but I personally believe that the driver figuring out that "one little thing" makes the biggest difference of all. For me, that "one little thing" was the revelation that speed doesn't come from corner entry, it comes from corner EXIT. For a long time I've was trying to hard too enter the corner as fast as possible. For me, that was the wrong approach. As soon as I started adjusting my corner entries for the best possible outcome "Apex-Out" everything turned around for me, especially at the short tracks where I really had a lot of trouble. How well I can apply this to Road Courses is yet to be seen, but I look forward to it. So hang in there. It will eventually come to you. Hell, I may have even just given you your secret as well :) Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <1lUsa.14405$[email hidden]>, "Larry" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Well, that was fun wasn't it :) > > No, it wasn't. For the second time in as many races I've caused the first > caution by spinning out. Grrr... Apologies to those affected. > I'm getting sick of this. I'm going to sit out for a couple of races

until I

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> learn how to drive the fucking thing... > > Eldred > p.s. Ed, the replay is now available. > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:-1.950 > MonsterRank: +305.145 > N2002 Rank:+17.59 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

The secret to this setup for entry was to lightly apply the brakes (very lightly) BEFORE letting off the gas. This settled the car and kept the rear end under control. This was a setup/track where using both the brake and the gas at the same time were very advantageous to keeping the car stable. Letting off the Gas without having brake pressure applied, and thus the slight forward bias working for you, was a bad thing. Larry "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3eb4699f$[email hidden]... > "EldredP" writes: > > > No, it wasn't. For the second time in as many races I've caused thefirst

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> > caution by spinning out. Grrr... Apologies to those affected. > > It was a tricky setup Eldred... Very loose under braking. > > > I'm getting sick of this. I'm going to sit out for a couple of races > until I > > learn how to drive the fucking thing... > > IMHO, that's the worst thing you can do Eldred! Get your ass back in the > races again. > If you ever wanna learn how to walk- you gotta rise from the falls and

give

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> it another go! > > > p.s. Ed, the replay is now available. > > Thanks! d/ling as "we speak" ;o) > > > -- > ed_ > http://rascar.racesimcentral.com > --------------------------------------- > $10 say Petter Solberg wins the 2003 WRC > >

Good job to you too, Bos. Sorry for running you up to the wall in the first lap. That was one of the times where my spotter was totally silent, and I had NO idea you were there. I had this _feeling_ someone might be there, and that's why I didn't run all the way up to the wall but I still ended up going just a bit too high and we touched. I'm glad it didn't turn into anything :) Larry "Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.com> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> It was a very tricky setup. IMO T1 at Richmond is one of the hardest > turns. If you don't hit your mark/brake/etc. you will be all out of > shape and can easily spin the car. > > My appolgies to Ed (sort of). I looked at the replay and it looked > like you came down onto me, but I shoulda given more room with that > many laps left. I was really driving you up the track and you broke > on the turn sooner than I did. You were definetly the fastest guy > there and would have most certainly won the race. I was a 5th place > car at best. I Chalk it up to one of those racin deals but I should > have given a little more than I took. > > Good job too Larry also, he got stuck in traffice but was catching me > by about 2 or 3 10ths per lap... only needed a few more... > > All in all it was a pretty clean race. Shoulda stuck around John, > look at Robby Gordon... 3 laps down and ended up with a top 5. > > Brian Oster > > > On Sun, 4 May 2003 03:12:13 +0200, "Ed Solheim" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >"EldredP" writes: > > > >> No, it wasn't. For the second time in as many races I've caused the

first

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> >> caution by spinning out. Grrr... Apologies to those affected. > > > >It was a tricky setup Eldred... Very loose under braking. > > > >> I'm getting sick of this. I'm going to sit out for a couple of races > >until I > >> learn how to drive the fucking thing... > > > >IMHO, that's the worst thing you can do Eldred! Get your ass back in the > >races again. > >If you ever wanna learn how to walk- you gotta rise from the falls and

give > >it another go! > > > >> p.s. Ed, the replay is now available. > > > >Thanks! d/ling as "we speak" ;o) >

I'm not totally terrible at Pocono, but my luck there is dismal. The last race there was like a circus for me. I was damaged, and everytime I stayed high (way, way high) to let the closing car go low and around, the car instead just went high too and rammed me in the ass-end. I don't know what the hell that was all about, but I got nailed like 6 times the exact same way. Larry "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wMata.53290$[email hidden]... > I believe I bore the brunt of your little mishap along with you, and I can > honestly say the only reason I was around to collect you was the fact Iwas > mere milliseconds from doing the same thing you did. Keep pluggin' I'dsay.

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> Now Pocono. I am notoriously bad there. > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <3eb4699f$[email hidden]>, "Ed Solheim" > <[email hidden]> > > writes: > > > > >IMHO, that's the worst thing you can do Eldred! Get your ass back in

the

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> > >races again. > > >If you ever wanna learn how to walk- you gotta rise from the falls and > give > > >it another go! > > > > I've fallen, and I can't get up... I'm currently a liability on the > track. > > And, I don't have the time right now to put in the laps to even get my > skill > > level to 'mediocre'. Maybe I'll have enough practice by the time we get > to > > Charlotte. Maybe Pocono... > > > > Eldred > > -- > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > GPLRank:-1.950 > > MonsterRank: +305.145 > > N2002 Rank:+17.59 > > > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats > you > > with experience... > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > >

I was catching up, but there just wasn't enough time and I needed a yellow BAD to close it up :) The lappers were gentleman, but there was just _so_ much traffic that I couldn't get around it all in time. Larry "Neil Charlton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b92mt4$837$[email hidden]... > Great race :)) > > Mostly paranoia for me - spent the first half of the race thinking 'howwill > I ever get past Ed' and the second half worrying about 'how will I keepIan

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> behind'. This was interspersed with worries about Larry and Brian. I was > never more than 1s out of the lead or 1s in it for the entire race - > absolutely intense :)) > > I also can't believe I just went 160L at Richmond without an incident or a > scratch. Real shame about Ed an Larry - could have been a titanic struggle > at the end. I think the outcome would have been (and was) decided on who

was > best on old tyres. Ian showed himself to be the best there so congratsIan - > richly deserved. > > Keep plugging away Eldred - you know you're steady and safe - you justhave

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> to believe it again. > > cya next time > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:1lUsa.14405$[email hidden]... > > Well, that was fun wasn't it :) > > > > I was about 3 laps shy of catching Boster, but had to settle for 4th.

But > > I'm happy because even though I logged an incident, I finished withoutany > > damage. That's a feat at this track. > > > > My spotter has been fired. He wasn't working worth a DAMN when it cameto > > cars on the outside of me when they were in the complete blind spot.Did > > anyone else have that problem? I never knew anyone was there half the > time. > > > > I also lost all chat and F-Key control capabilities for about 4 laps.Not > > sure what the hell that was all about. It eventually came back. It > > happened right after I got my Lap back. > > > > Thanks for not fighting me too hard on that Ed :) > > > > I got a BF for passing while entering the pits. I really don't knowwhy,

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> I > > was careful to lay back to prevent it but I guess someone slowed on the > > track or something as I was entering. I'd really like to see something > done > > about this. > > > > My hats off to the Lap-down cars. Today was the best manners I've seen > yet! > > > > On the last restart, I did get caught up in a large group of lap cars

and > > lost about 7 seconds to the lead pack. Not their fault, there was justso > > many of them to pass. Once I got clear track I was closing up prettygood > > but ran out of time. > > > > And finally my hats off to everyone for using your brakes today. My > biggest > > fear coming into this race was getting continually ass-ended, especially > > going into turn 3. It never happened to me and I never hit anyone elsein

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> > the rear. Good job! > > > > There were few yellows for this track. Again, great job on everyone's > part! > > > > Nice win Ian, and nice run Neil. I had something for ya, but I was just > too > > far back to catch up in time :) > > > > -Larry > > > > > >

John, I'm willing to second you on the moderate damage thing mainly because of the issues you raise, and the random damage that's just a bit too random. At Darlington I lost my engine for barely getting tapped in the REAR. It was bogus and it made me mad as hell. And I lost 4th gear at Martinsville for NO reason whatsoever. I was even 'easy-shifting' to prevent gearbox problems, and it just disappeared on a restart for no reason at all. I think the current group of us are good enough and mannerly enough where it wouldn't hurt us. Larry "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <b9394p$pkg$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > In article <1lUsa.14405$[email hidden]>, > > > [email hidden] says... > > > > And finally my hats off to everyone for using your brakes today. My > > biggest > > > > fear coming into this race was getting continually ass-ended,

especially > > > > going into turn 3. It never happened to me and I never hit anyoneelse

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> > in > > > > the rear. Good job! > > > > > > > > > > Well, almost everyone... > > > > > > saw that coming. > > > > > I didn't save the replay. We were on the back stretch i think, so how > did you manage to screw the pooch? My first guess is that you simply > weren't paying attention. > > I pretty annoyed/pissed at being eliminated just 3 laps into the race > as a result of contact during a caution. > > I'm getting more pissed off at the sim every time I race. There's no > freakin' reason that I should have lost 4th gear due to being hit > from behind like that, and there should have been every possibility > of the pit crew being able to fix it, but the "ultimate racing sim" > doesn't seem to be aware of this possibility. > > In the patch, I hope they back off the incidental damage a little so > most of us can finsih a fuckin' race once in a while. Relaism is > fine, but not at the expense of playability and the "fun" factor. > > I'm ready to recommend that we back the damage off to "moderate" just > to avoid problems like this. > >

If there was a way to turn off the Random Damage, then I would totally agree. Keep the damage at realistic. But we have to find a way around this issue until Papy fixes it and I think John's idea is the only one we realistically have. If it was an open racing situation I'd never even think about it. But we have a pretty good group for the most part. And if people start getting carless then we can always pull the plug on it and go back to realistic. It would be up to EVERYONE to keep the moderate setting feasible. Larry "Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sun, 04 May 2003 15:35:39 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >In article <b9394p$pkg$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > >says... > >> > >> "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > >I'm getting more pissed off at the sim every time I race. There's no > >freakin' reason that I should have lost 4th gear due to being hit > >from behind like that, and there should have been every possibility > >of the pit crew being able to fix it, but the "ultimate racing sim" > >doesn't seem to be aware of this possibility. > > > >In the patch, I hope they back off the incidental damage a little so > >most of us can finsih a fuckin' race once in a while. Relaism is > >fine, but not at the expense of playability and the "fun" factor. > > > >I'm ready to recommend that we back the damage off to "moderate" just > >to avoid problems like this. > > > > I think we should stick with realistic, there are consequences for > making a mistake. They do need to fix the damage model though. It is > stupid to loose a gear due to contact. In fact, gears are lost all > too often. You don't see near the transmission failures in real life. > I just wish there was an option to turn off random failures in on-line > games. > > Brian Oster

On Sun, 04 May 2003 15:35:39 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>In article <b9394p$pkg$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] >says... >> >> "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >I'm getting more pissed off at the sim every time I race. There's no >freakin' reason that I should have lost 4th gear due to being hit >from behind like that, and there should have been every possibility >of the pit crew being able to fix it, but the "ultimate racing sim" >doesn't seem to be aware of this possibility. > >In the patch, I hope they back off the incidental damage a little so >most of us can finsih a fuckin' race once in a while. Relaism is >fine, but not at the expense of playability and the "fun" factor. > >I'm ready to recommend that we back the damage off to "moderate" just >to avoid problems like this. >

I think we should stick with realistic, there are consequences for making a mistake. They do need to fix the damage model though. It is stupid to loose a gear due to contact. In fact, gears are lost all too often. You don't see near the transmission failures in real life. I just wish there was an option to turn off random failures in on-line games. Brian Oster

On Sun, 04 May 2003 17:08:14 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Sorry for running you up to the wall in the first lap. That was one of the >times where my spotter was totally silent, and I had NO idea you were there. >I had this _feeling_ someone might be there, and that's why I didn't run all >the way up to the wall but I still ended up going just a bit too high and we >touched. I'm glad it didn't turn into anything :) > >Larry >

Actually, I don't even rember that. One thing that bugs me about the spotter is he doesn't immediatly tell you when you are clear after a re-start. He waits until the middle of the backstretch which allways makes it hard for me on restarts. Brian Oster

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <b9394p$pkg$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > In article <1lUsa.14405$[email hidden]>, > > > [email hidden] says... > > > > And finally my hats off to everyone for using your brakes today. My > > biggest > > > > fear coming into this race was getting continually ass-ended,

especially > > > > going into turn 3. It never happened to me and I never hit anyoneelse

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> > in > > > > the rear. Good job! > > > > > > > > > > Well, almost everyone... > > > > > > saw that coming. > > > > > I didn't save the replay. We were on the back stretch i think, so how > did you manage to screw the pooch? My first guess is that you simply > weren't paying attention. > > I pretty annoyed/pissed at being eliminated just 3 laps into the race > as a result of contact during a caution. > > I'm getting more pissed off at the sim every time I race. There's no > freakin' reason that I should have lost 4th gear due to being hit > from behind like that, and there should have been every possibility > of the pit crew being able to fix it, but the "ultimate racing sim" > doesn't seem to be aware of this possibility. > > In the patch, I hope they back off the incidental damage a little so > most of us can finsih a fuckin' race once in a while. Relaism is > fine, but not at the expense of playability and the "fun" factor. > > I'm ready to recommend that we back the damage off to "moderate" just > to avoid problems like this. > >

Your guess would be right. I wasn't even going over pace speed. Just pulled left to avoid hitting the car ahead of me and to not get hit in the back, and whammo there you were. But there was not way I hit you hard enough to wreck 4th gear or the power loss I took. Like I told my wife, my 1st RASCAR race and I take out one of the guys that run the league. (F%$%#$) I'm sure you'll have a chance to get even Tim.

"Brian Oster" \writes:

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> My appolgies to Ed (sort of). I looked at the replay and it looked > like you came down onto me, but I shoulda given more room with that > many laps left. I was really driving you up the track and you broke > on the turn sooner than I did. You were definetly the fastest guy > there and would have most certainly won the race. I was a 5th place > car at best. I Chalk it up to one of those racin deals but I should > have given a little more than I took.

That should have been my race I think - or atleast that what I like to think :-) Like you said... it's just one of 'em racing deals.. I wanted to give Larry his lap back as soon as possible 'cause the last thing I wanted was to be rear-ended into a corner (no pun Larry)... I figured the best way was just to let him go early on and then stick to his bumber until the next yellow came out.. I figured I had a fast enough car to keep both you and Neil behind me so to me it would have benn one less thing to worry about.. Anyways, what actually happend was that, as I was letting Larry go passed I went soo high up the track that I touched the wall. I wanted to get out of that asap so it wouldnt cut my speed down... Unfortunatly, you had followed me up the banking and, as I was coming down again - you were right beside me and we touched. :-( And then as I was coming to a halt beside the outside wall - Grub hit me head on at full speed - sending me flying down the track and killing my engine - my race was done. Richmond marked my 1 year anniversary in RASCAR... This was the first track I competed at last season - finishing second to Mike - so I was thrilled as hell with my pace on Saturday. I had a damn good car - something Neil must have seen. Those 3 laps side-by-side sure was amazing! I also felt I could control my pace so it would have made for an exicting finish.... Anyway kudos to the front-runners and "lappers" (hate that word) - it was a good race and an exicting finish.... And con'grats to Ian for winning - even though he did "cheat" <g!> :o) -- ed_ http://rascar.racesimcentral.com --------------------------------------- $10 say Petter Solberg wins the 2003 WRC

Richmond; heck I dont know where to start. My spotter really sucked. Never been that bad before. Got lapped too early in the race. Next, mr. newbie decides to take a break at the restart and I get the BF for passing on the yellow. That really pissed me off. If you want to stop on the track, just go into the pits and get your own Bf. Later on in the race the same newbie wants me to pass him on the restart. Good intention on his part......but I wasnt going to get another Bf. Well after the first turn newbie decides to slam on the brakes and I just about piled drove both of us into the wall, then after I passed the newbie, the piled drove me at the next turn. I couldn't believe it. Would someone look at the replay and tell me what happened. I didnt save it. Newbie wanted to discuss it and I told him not during the race! We could talk about it later. Then he replied that he only wanted to 'get some laps'. Then he left. Since I got a ford 2.0 engine to rebuild , I parked my car for the day and went down to the basement to try to forget this race. I hope the newbie reads the rules and tries harder in the future. I was a newbie once and so I cant be too hard on him, but , man, that really pissed me off. See everyone at the next race.

In article <QJbta.20862$[email hidden]>, "Larry" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>For me, that "one little thing" was the revelation that speed doesn't come >from corner entry, it comes from corner EXIT. For a long time I've was >trying to hard too enter the corner as fast as possible. For me, that was >the wrong approach. As soon as I started adjusting my corner entries for >the best possible outcome "Apex-Out" everything turned around for me, >especially at the short tracks where I really had a lot of trouble. How >well I can apply this to Road Courses is yet to be seen, but I look forward >to it. > >So hang in there. It will eventually come to you. Hell, I may have even >just given you your secret as well :)

I dunno. I still have people gaining(and passing) going into the corner. Seems like I'm already going slow on corner entry. If I go slower into the corners, I just...get slower. I still can't get back on the gas any earlier. I'm not sure why. If I do, I'll push into the outside wall. I don't know if I'm just not seeing the track correctly, or not knowing what the car is going to do. Whatever it is, it's damn frustrating to watch everyone disappear into the distance and not be able to do a flippin' thing about it... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.950 MonsterRank: +305.145 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Sun, 4 May 2003 20:56:00 +0200, "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >That should have been my race I think - or atleast that what I like to >think :-) >Like you said... it's just one of 'em racing deals.. I wanted to give Larry >his lap back as soon as possible 'cause the last thing I wanted was to be >rear-ended into a corner (no pun Larry)... I figured the best way was just >to let him go early on and then stick to his bumber until the next yellow >came out.. I figured I had a fast enough car to keep both you and Neil >behind me so to me it would have benn one less thing to worry about.. > >Anyways, what actually happend was that, as I was letting Larry go passed I >went soo high up the track that I touched the wall. I wanted to get out of >that asap so it wouldnt cut my speed down... Unfortunatly, you had followed >me up the banking and, as I was coming down again - you were right beside me >and we touched. :-( >And then as I was coming to a halt beside the outside wall - Grub hit me >head on at full speed - sending me flying down the track and killing my >engine - my race was done. >

You were the fastest which is why I wondered why you were letting Larry by. If I know I am the faster car I will race a lapper pretty hard to keep him behind me because if I let him by he will just hold me up and I'll have too pass him back. Now if the yellow comes out and the lapper is in touch I may pull over and let him go. Although, I guess if he was banging on your bumper pretty hard I can see why you let him go, he was pretty strong and at that point he was probably pushing it as hard as he could. Anyway, when you pulled over to let Larry by I figured as long as you were opening the door... One thing I wish Papy would have fixed was the physics model for "casual contact". You should be able to bang doors without the car getting so out of shape. We barely touched and yet your car took off like it had been shot with a cannon. I actually didn't even feel anything, but I knew what had happened. Brian Oster

In article <[email hidden]>, bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net says... > > One thing I wish Papy would have fixed was the physics model for > "casual contact". You should be able to bang doors without the car > getting so out of shape. We barely touched and yet your car took off > like it had been shot with a cannon. The collision detection system is (I think) as good as it's gonna get. Sometimes you can bump but most of the time you can't. It's the nature of driving online. I've banged doors with the AI offline and never had a problem, but the microwarping online usually prevents that.

On Mon, 05 May 2003 10:02:06 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, >bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net says... >> >> One thing I wish Papy would have fixed was the physics model for >> "casual contact". You should be able to bang doors without the car >> getting so out of shape. We barely touched and yet your car took off >> like it had been shot with a cannon. > >The collision detection system is (I think) as good as it's gonna >get. Sometimes you can bump but most of the time you can't. It's the >nature of driving online. I've banged doors with the AI offline and >never had a problem, but the microwarping online usually prevents >that.

Yup, bet even off-line it is too "touchy". Sometimes if you touch wheels it will send you careening out of control instantly sort of like... oh, I don't know... a game engine for open wheeled cars might do. If Kurt Busch and Ricky Craven had been racing N2003 at Darlington, Craven would have ended up in the in-field and Kurt would have been in the parking lot behind the Grandstands. Brian Oster

Brian Oster wrote: > > Yup, bet even off-line it is too "touchy". Sometimes if you touch > wheels it will send you careening out of control instantly sort of > like... oh, I don't know... a game engine for open wheeled cars might > do. So what you're saying is that it's (no) GPL ? :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

On Mon, 05 May 2003 20:11:10 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> > >Brian Oster wrote: >> >> Yup, bet even off-line it is too "touchy". Sometimes if you touch >> wheels it will send you careening out of control instantly sort of >> like... oh, I don't know... a game engine for open wheeled cars might >> do. > >So what you're saying is that it's (no) GPL ? :-)

No, I am saying it is TOO much GPL. They took the GPL engine and modified it for N4 and I think a few of the physics things transfered that should not have. I have had an AI car come up and lightly kiss my right side tire, there's a puff of smoke, and my car goes flying off the track. In real life this does not happen... for stock cars... open wheeled cars it may be more realistic. Brian Oster

Brian Oster wrote:

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> > >So what you're saying is that it's (no) GPL ? :-) > > No, I am saying it is TOO much GPL. They took the GPL engine and > modified it for N4 and I think a few of the physics things transfered > that should not have. I have had an AI car come up and lightly kiss > my right side tire, there's a puff of smoke, and my car goes flying > off the track. In real life this does not happen... for stock cars... > open wheeled cars it may be more realistic.

I'm sorry, I should have left the (no) out altogether, but I wasn't sure if you'd "get it" then.....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

[email hidden] (Bamadano) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > >Well, almost everyone. > > I'll second that John... uh.....that was me. Sorry, Bamadano. I was following you for a few laps with good rythym, and I think that one corner I got in a little better than you, but couldn't check up fast enough. I don't think I hit you that hard, but we both ended up against the wall. I thought it was a little much as far as the damage was concerned. We were both down on power after that. My bad completely....rookie mistake....but I'll tell my sponsors it was just a racin' deal. :)

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net says... > > > > One thing I wish Papy would have fixed was the physics model for > > "casual contact". You should be able to bang doors without the car > > getting so out of shape. We barely touched and yet your car took off > > like it had been shot with a cannon. > > The collision detection system is (I think) as good as it's gonna > get. Sometimes you can bump but most of the time you can't. It's the > nature of driving online. I've banged doors with the AI offline and > never had a problem, but the microwarping online usually prevents > that.

In Live For Speed, you can bang door to door A LOT better than you can in N2003 online. Even in the TRi MTM/Evo series, you could hit each other without being flung across the track. David G Fisher

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <b9394p$pkg$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > In article <1lUsa.14405$[email hidden]>, > > > [email hidden] says... > > > > And finally my hats off to everyone for using your brakes today. My > > biggest > > > > fear coming into this race was getting continually ass-ended,

especially > > > > going into turn 3. It never happened to me and I never hit anyoneelse

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> > in > > > > the rear. Good job! > > > > > > > > > > Well, almost everyone... > > > > > > saw that coming. > > > > > I didn't save the replay. We were on the back stretch i think, so how > did you manage to screw the pooch? My first guess is that you simply > weren't paying attention. > > I pretty annoyed/pissed at being eliminated just 3 laps into the race > as a result of contact during a caution. > > I'm getting more pissed off at the sim every time I race. There's no > freakin' reason that I should have lost 4th gear due to being hit > from behind like that, and there should have been every possibility > of the pit crew being able to fix it, but the "ultimate racing sim" > doesn't seem to be aware of this possibility. > > In the patch, I hope they back off the incidental damage a little so > most of us can finsih a fuckin' race once in a while. Relaism is > fine, but not at the expense of playability and the "fun" factor. > > I'm ready to recommend that we back the damage off to "moderate" just > to avoid problems like this.

Knew you guys would come around. :-0 David G Fisher

In article <[email hidden]>, "grub" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Richmond; heck I dont know where to start. My spotter really sucked. Never >been that bad before. Got lapped too early in the race. Next, mr. newbie >decides to take a break at the restart and I get the BF for passing on the >yellow. That really pissed me off. If you want to stop on the track, just go >into the pits and get your own Bf. Later on in the race the same newbie >wants me to pass him on the restart. Good intention on his part......but I >wasnt going to get another Bf. Well after the first turn newbie decides to >slam on the brakes and I just about piled drove both of us into the wall, >then after I passed the newbie, the piled drove me at the next turn. I >couldn't believe it.

Disclaimer - I haven't seen the replay either...<g> Possibilities: Someone checked up in in front of him, so of course he brakes as well. Maybe you just got caught out. As far as slamming on the brakes in the turn - not everyone brakes at the same spot. I've been hit before because I braked much earlier and harder than the driver following me. I can't do anything about that, and neither can anyone else who has to brake earlier in order to make the corner. As far as him running into you later, he's on his own... :-) Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.950 MonsterRank: +305.145 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Oster <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> writes: >If I know I am the faster car I will race a lapper pretty >hard to keep him behind me because if I let him by he will just hold >me up and I'll have too pass him back. If you're the faster car, how would the lapper catch you in the FIRST place, hmm...? :-) Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.950 MonsterRank: +305.145 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 06 May 2003 01:40:56 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Oster ><bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> writes: > >>If I know I am the faster car I will race a lapper pretty >>hard to keep him behind me because if I let him by he will just hold >>me up and I'll have too pass him back. > >If you're the faster car, how would the lapper catch you in the FIRST place, >hmm...? >:-) > >Eldred

He's on the inside on restarts. You get held up by another lap car. He's faster on cold tires but fades fast after 5 or so laps, etc. Many ways you can have a car a lap down racing you hard. There have been times when I have been the slower car, but if you pick it up you can race the faster car pretty hard, but in the end, if he's faster he'll pull away. Brian Oster

On Sun, 04 May 2003 15:35:39 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote: >In the patch, I hope they back off the incidental damage a little so >most of us can finsih a fuckin' race once in a while. Relaism is >fine, but not at the expense of playability and the "fun" factor. > >I'm ready to recommend that we back the damage off to "moderate" just >to avoid problems like this. I hope they don't modify the damage engine at all. As many others have said, just lower the damage level if you don't want realistic damage. Jason

>I have had an AI car come up and lightly kiss >my right side tire, there's a puff of smoke, and my car goes flying >off the track. In real life this does not happen... for stock cars... >open wheeled cars it may be more realistic. Did you ever see Tom Sneva's 1975 Indy 500 crash...? Whew! Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.950 MonsterRank: +305.145 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>He's on the inside on restarts. You get held up by another lap car. >He's faster on cold tires but fades fast after 5 or so laps, etc. >Many ways you can have a car a lap down racing you hard. There have >been times when I have been the slower car, but if you pick it up you >can race the faster car pretty hard, but in the end, if he's faster >he'll pull away. Restarts? <insert Emily Litella voice> Oh, that's different. Never mind... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.950 MonsterRank: +305.145 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 06 May 2003 17:00:55 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >Restarts? ><insert Emily Litella voice> Emily Litella????

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> On Sun, 04 May 2003 15:35:39 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >In the patch, I hope they back off the incidental damage a little so > >most of us can finsih a fuckin' race once in a while. Relaism is > >fine, but not at the expense of playability and the "fun" factor. > > > >I'm ready to recommend that we back the damage off to "moderate" just > >to avoid problems like this. > > I hope they don't modify the damage engine at all. As many others > have said, just lower the damage level if you don't want realistic > damage. > > Jason >

There's nothing realistic about loosing 4th gear after being tapped at low speeds under caution, and then not being able to fix it. To give you an idea of how minimal the damage must have been, I heard only two hammer blows against sheet metal while in the pits. When the green flag flew, I had no 4th gear, and we're talking about just four laps into the race. WTF kind of "realism" is that?

John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in news:MPG.1921e71e8ea391b49898e0@news- server.satx.rr.com:

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> In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... >> On Sun, 04 May 2003 15:35:39 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> >In the patch, I hope they back off the incidental damage a little so >> >most of us can finsih a fuckin' race once in a while. Relaism is >> >fine, but not at the expense of playability and the "fun" factor. >> > >> >I'm ready to recommend that we back the damage off to "moderate" just >> >to avoid problems like this. >> >> I hope they don't modify the damage engine at all. As many others >> have said, just lower the damage level if you don't want realistic >> damage. >> >> Jason >> > > There's nothing realistic about loosing 4th gear after being tapped > at low speeds under caution, and then not being able to fix it. To > give you an idea of how minimal the damage must have been, I heard > only two hammer blows against sheet metal while in the pits. When > the green flag flew, I had no 4th gear, and we're talking about just > four laps into the race. WTF kind of "realism" is that? > >

lets connect the dots. a) some lowdown miscreant sends you a love tap from behind. b) your car's bumper is deformed and distubs the airflow exiting from underneath the car. c) the car now 'sits' funny on chassis to to increased lift from the deformity. d) the added lift places a strain upon the powertrain which causes tension in the tranny. e) the weakest link of the powertrain, a lowly gear or even just a shifter dog, can't take the added stress and breaks. f) rear collision causes gear failure. Ipso Facto Mr. Roboto. dave(the professor is in)henrie

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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>>I have had an AI car come up and lightly kiss >>my right side tire, there's a puff of smoke, and my car goes flying >>off the track. In real life this does not happen... for stock cars... >>open wheeled cars it may be more realistic. > > Did you ever see Tom Sneva's 1975 Indy 500 crash...? Whew! > > Eldred

tiny tiny TINY bit of trivia...I used to be the substitute letter carrier on the route where Tom Sneva's parents live. So once a week I would deliver the mail to the Snevas. My don't you all feel important now!!! dave henrie

Brian Oster <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> wrote in news:[email hidden]: >> >>Restarts? >><insert Emily Litella voice> > > Emily Litella???? > nevermind.............. dave henrie

In article <[email hidden]>, bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net says...

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> On 06 May 2003 17:00:55 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > > > > >Restarts? > ><insert Emily Litella voice> > > Emily Litella???? >

Saturday Night Live character, back when the show was actually funny.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in news:MPG.1921e71e8ea391b49898e0@news- > server.satx.rr.com: > > > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > > says... > >> On Sun, 04 May 2003 15:35:39 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote: > >> > >> >In the patch, I hope they back off the incidental damage a little so > >> >most of us can finsih a fuckin' race once in a while. Relaism is > >> >fine, but not at the expense of playability and the "fun" factor. > >> > > >> >I'm ready to recommend that we back the damage off to "moderate" just > >> >to avoid problems like this. > >> > >> I hope they don't modify the damage engine at all. As many others > >> have said, just lower the damage level if you don't want realistic > >> damage. > >> > >> Jason > >> > > > > There's nothing realistic about loosing 4th gear after being tapped > > at low speeds under caution, and then not being able to fix it. To > > give you an idea of how minimal the damage must have been, I heard > > only two hammer blows against sheet metal while in the pits. When > > the green flag flew, I had no 4th gear, and we're talking about just > > four laps into the race. WTF kind of "realism" is that? > > > > > lets connect the dots. > a) some lowdown miscreant sends you a love tap from behind. > b) your car's bumper is deformed and distubs the airflow exiting from > underneath the car. > c) the car now 'sits' funny on chassis to to increased lift from the > deformity. > d) the added lift places a strain upon the powertrain which causes tension > in the tranny. > e) the weakest link of the powertrain, a lowly gear or even just a shifter > dog, can't take the added stress and breaks. > f) rear collision causes gear failure. Ipso Facto Mr. Roboto.

Wrong. The tap wasn't sever enough to disturb the body to such a point as to create extra lift. If anything, it would have decreased the downforce on the rear end, but certainly not enough to strain the drivetrain. Further, the failure would have happened much later in the race, not on the ensuing restart (like I said, we were only four laps into the race). Your theory is crap. The sim's realism sucks as far as the damage model is concerned.

John Simmons Your theory is crap. The sim's realism sucks as far as the > damage model is concerned. > Of course it is....might wanna take that hook outta your mouth there Johnnie boy! :) dave henrie

John Simmons wrote: > Your theory is crap. The sim's realism sucks as far as the > damage model is concerned. *jumps on the bandwagon* Yeah, Mr. Henrie, your theory is utter and complete crap! *slips and falls off the bandwagon* Just ribbin' ya, Dave. I'm feelin' a bit giddy after the second set of tornado weather passed us here in southwest MO. ;) But in response to John, here's to hoping Papy fixes whatever damage modelling is incorrect or buggy. Perhaps they could also add donuts on the side panels (Let's get real: NASCAR Revolution even modelled this), maybe model damage on the side of the cars and/or blow tires when a hard enough impact or long enough contact is made. That would quickly put a stop to wall-rider wannabes, and end the need for the troublesome wall glue. Per the second idea everyone has offered, I still don't know why it hasn't been implimented. Haven't the fans suggested it back when NR2002 was in it's prime? One would think that when the game detects someone on the wall for X amount of seconds, instead of automatically braking they could instead increase the tire wear substantially on that side of the car until the tire blows. -Will

Dave Henrie wrote: > > tiny tiny TINY bit of trivia...I used to be the substitute letter carrier > on the route where Tom Sneva's parents live. So once a week I would > deliver the mail to the Snevas. My don't you all feel important now!!! > > dave henrie Isn't that how it usually works out? You never meet the person, but you're damn close to his parents? hehe. I'm on the same end of the stick: I live about 20 miles from Jamie McMurrary's parents home. -Will

Well, on the restart, he was the leader of the lapped cars and I was behind him. He stopped and i went passed thinking that he would come along before the sf line. this happed on the backstreach before the restart. He never came and I slowed to almost a stop then got the bf and then here he comes. It looked suspect from my eyes. But hey, maybe just a newbie mistake. I have forgotton it already. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, "grub" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Richmond; heck I dont know where to start. My spotter really sucked.Never > >been that bad before. Got lapped too early in the race. Next, mr. newbie > >decides to take a break at the restart and I get the BF for passing onthe > >yellow. That really pissed me off. If you want to stop on the track, justgo > >into the pits and get your own Bf. Later on in the race the same newbie > >wants me to pass him on the restart. Good intention on his part......butI > >wasnt going to get another Bf. Well after the first turn newbie decidesto > >slam on the brakes and I just about piled drove both of us into the wall, > >then after I passed the newbie, the piled drove me at the next turn. I > >couldn't believe it. > > Disclaimer - I haven't seen the replay either...<g> > Possibilities: Someone checked up in in front of him, so of course hebrakes > as well. Maybe you just got caught out. As far as slamming on the brakesin > the turn - not everyone brakes at the same spot. I've been hit beforebecause > I braked much earlier and harder than the driver following me. I can't do > anything about that, and neither can anyone else who has to brake earlierin

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> order to make the corner. > As far as him running into you later, he's on his own... :-) > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:-1.950 > MonsterRank: +305.145 > N2002 Rank:+17.59 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

John, you have really been the brunt of all the "damage" this year. I mean, man you are like a lighting rod or something. Lets turn the damage down to moderate for a couple of races so that we can finish one , then reasses the situation. It aint no fun to see you break every single race at the start. Heck, if we were racing for the real thing, I would have to let you borrow my backup car just to not have to see/hear the whinning. If it were me, I would be hysterical by now. just my opinion. moderate damage grub "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in news:MPG.1921e71e8ea391b49898e0@news- > > server.satx.rr.com: > > > > > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > > > says... > > >> On Sun, 04 May 2003 15:35:39 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >> > > >> >In the patch, I hope they back off the incidental damage a little so > > >> >most of us can finsih a fuckin' race once in a while. Relaism is > > >> >fine, but not at the expense of playability and the "fun" factor. > > >> > > > >> >I'm ready to recommend that we back the damage off to "moderate"

just

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> > >> >to avoid problems like this. > > >> > > >> I hope they don't modify the damage engine at all. As many others > > >> have said, just lower the damage level if you don't want realistic > > >> damage. > > >> > > >> Jason > > >> > > > > > > There's nothing realistic about loosing 4th gear after being tapped > > > at low speeds under caution, and then not being able to fix it. To > > > give you an idea of how minimal the damage must have been, I heard > > > only two hammer blows against sheet metal while in the pits. When > > > the green flag flew, I had no 4th gear, and we're talking about just > > > four laps into the race. WTF kind of "realism" is that? > > > > > > > > lets connect the dots. > > a) some lowdown miscreant sends you a love tap from behind. > > b) your car's bumper is deformed and distubs the airflow exiting from > > underneath the car. > > c) the car now 'sits' funny on chassis to to increased lift from the > > deformity. > > d) the added lift places a strain upon the powertrain which causes

tension > > in the tranny. > > e) the weakest link of the powertrain, a lowly gear or even just ashifter

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> > dog, can't take the added stress and breaks. > > f) rear collision causes gear failure. Ipso Facto Mr. Roboto. > > Wrong. The tap wasn't sever enough to disturb the body to such a > point as to create extra lift. If anything, it would have decreased > the downforce on the rear end, but certainly not enough to strain the > drivetrain. > > Further, the failure would have happened much later in the race, not > on the ensuing restart (like I said, we were only four laps into the > race). Your theory is crap. The sim's realism sucks as far as the > damage model is concerned. >

In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Oster <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> writes:

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>On 06 May 2003 17:00:55 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >> >>Restarts? >><insert Emily Litella voice> > >Emily Litella???

Wow, you must be young... Emily Litella was a character played by Gilda Radner on Saturday Night Live - back when the show was GOOD... :-) Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.950 MonsterRank: +305.145 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"grub" wrote... > John, you have really been the brunt of all the "damage" this year.<snip> I've got no problem with using moderate damage, but I still say it's not "random damage" if it always hits the same person(s). <g> Seriously, I don't know if I've asked this before or not, but do you speed-shift, i.e. shift without letting up on the throttle, John? Jan. =---

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> John Simmons wrote: > > Your theory is crap. The sim's realism sucks as far as the > > damage model is concerned. > > *jumps on the bandwagon* > > Yeah, Mr. Henrie, your theory is utter and complete crap! > > *slips and falls off the bandwagon* > > Just ribbin' ya, Dave. I'm feelin' a bit giddy after the second set of > tornado weather passed us here in southwest MO. ;)

(Actually, I was too, but I got into a mood while I was re-living the mechanical failure. I'll never be the same.)

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> But in response to John, here's to hoping Papy fixes whatever damage > modelling is incorrect or buggy. Perhaps they could also add donuts on > the side panels (Let's get real: NASCAR Revolution even modelled this), > maybe model damage on the side of the cars and/or blow tires when a hard > enough impact or long enough contact is made. That would quickly put a > stop to wall-rider wannabes, and end the need for the troublesome wall > glue. Per the second idea everyone has offered, I still don't know why > it hasn't been implimented. Haven't the fans suggested it back when > NR2002 was in it's prime? One would think that when the game detects > someone on the wall for X amount of seconds, instead of automatically > braking they could instead increase the tire wear substantially on that > side of the car until the tire blows. >

Yep.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > John, you have really been the brunt of all the "damage" this year. I mean, > man you are like a lighting rod or something. I think I pissed off the racing gods or something during the off- season.

In article <PG4ua.77882$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > "grub" wrote... > > John, you have really been the brunt of all the "damage" this year. > <snip> > > I've got no problem with using moderate damage, but I still say it's not > "random damage" if it always hits the same person(s). <g> > > Seriously, I don't know if I've asked this before or not, but do you > speed-shift, i.e. shift without letting up on the throttle, John? > > Jan. > =---

Nope, I haven't done that since GPL came out.

On 07 May 2003 02:37:19 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Oster ><bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> writes: > >>On 06 May 2003 17:00:55 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >> >>> >>>Restarts? >>><insert Emily Litella voice> >> >>Emily Litella??? > >Wow, you must be young... > >Emily Litella was a character played by Gilda Radner on Saturday Night Live - >back when the show was GOOD... :-) > >Eldred

Saturday Live Night???? Was that anything like MAD TV? Actually used to watch SNL all the time... just don't remember that character. Of course now I will have to invest hours and hours of watching Comedy Central to figure out your joke Eldred. Brian Oster

On Tue, 06 May 2003 21:34:14 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote: >There's nothing realistic about loosing 4th gear after being tapped >at low speeds under caution, and then not being able to fix it. To >give you an idea of how minimal the damage must have been, I heard >only two hammer blows against sheet metal while in the pits. When >the green flag flew, I had no 4th gear, and we're talking about just >four laps into the race. WTF kind of "realism" is that? I see what you mean. I do like the current damage model quite a bit when racing offline, even if I'd like it to be even more brutal. Is it even possible to knock the toe in or out in N2003? It's always seemed to me that N4/N2002/N2003 lacked the complexity of the engine and suspension damage that was in GPL. If scraping the wall would knock the right front toe in and cause some fender/tire rubbing and damage, they could get rid of the stupid wall glue once and for all. There are so many races where you see dominant cars brush the wall or another car and knock the suspension out of alignment, causing them to drop to mid-pack. That said, I wish for online racing they'd put some more toggles in, like the ability to turn off unrepairable damage and random failures, maybe? That way you could get punished properly for smashing up the body and ripping apart the tires without having to worry about your day being completely over. Jason

On Wed, 07 May 2003 18:20:57 GMT, [email hidden] (Jason Moyer) wrote: > >I see what you mean. I do like the current damage model quite a bit >when racing offline, even if I'd like it to be even more brutal. Is >it even possible to knock the toe in or out in N2003? It may just be my imagnination, but it seems like to me when I brush the wall pretty hard coming out of a turn, that the handling characteristics do change and my lap times do drop. I really only notice this at the 1.5 mile tracks, so it may just be trying to model aero affects and not things like toe out and other suspension items. Then again, like I said, it could all just be in my head. Brian Oster

Neil Charlton wrote:

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> Great race :)) > > Mostly paranoia for me - spent the first half of the race thinking > 'how will I ever get past Ed' and the second half worrying about 'how > will I keep Ian behind'. This was interspersed with worries about > Larry and Brian. I was never more than 1s out of the lead or 1s in it > for the entire race - absolutely intense :))

I was just concentrating on not having any incidents for the first 2/3rds of the race > I also can't believe I just went 160L at Richmond without an incident > or a scratch. Real shame about Ed an Larry - could have been a > titanic struggle at the end. I think the outcome would have been (and > was) decided on who was best on old tyres. Ian showed himself to be > the best there so congrats Ian - richly deserved. Thanks Neil, that was one hell of a fight you put up at the end, I *really* didn't think I would get past you, but I don't like to give up ! Great racing :) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spammers>

Tim Paullin wrote:

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> "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote >> I didn't save the replay. We were on the back stretch i think, so how >> did you manage to screw the pooch? My first guess is that you simply >> weren't paying attention. >> >> I pretty annoyed/pissed at being eliminated just 3 laps into the race >> as a result of contact during a caution. >> >> I'm getting more pissed off at the sim every time I race. There's no >> freakin' reason that I should have lost 4th gear due to being hit >> from behind like that, and there should have been every possibility >> of the pit crew being able to fix it, but the "ultimate racing sim" >> doesn't seem to be aware of this possibility. > Your guess would be right. I wasn't even going over pace speed. Just > pulled left to avoid hitting the car ahead of me and to not get hit > in the back, and whammo there you were.

I was the car ahead of you, you came out of T2 accelerating past me, at the last minute you braked from 90+MPH to 70MPH when you made contact with John (Judged from my client replay.) > But there was not way I hit you hard enough to wreck 4th gear or the > power loss I took. A 30MPH difference in speed can cause a fair bit of damage ;) > Like I told my wife, my 1st RASCAR race and I take out one of the > guys that run the league. (F%$%#$) > I'm sure you'll have a chance to get even > > Tim. Shit happens, unfortunately yours happened to involve John, who unfortunately has had some bad luck in RASCAR this year so you bore the brunt. Though to be fair to John, he has been very restrained with you :) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spammers>

John Simmons wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > John, you have really been the brunt of all the "damage" this year. I mean, > > man you are like a lighting rod or something. > > I think I pissed off the racing gods or something during the off- > season.

Ask RedTed, I'm sure he'll be able to tell you *exactly* how you did it :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

In article <8beua.15998$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> Tim Paullin wrote: > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote > > >> I didn't save the replay. We were on the back stretch i think, so how > >> did you manage to screw the pooch? My first guess is that you simply > >> weren't paying attention. > >> > >> I pretty annoyed/pissed at being eliminated just 3 laps into the race > >> as a result of contact during a caution. > >> > > Your guess would be right. I wasn't even going over pace speed. Just > > pulled left to avoid hitting the car ahead of me and to not get hit > > in the back, and whammo there you were. > > I was the car ahead of you, you came out of T2 accelerating past me, at the > last minute you braked from 90+MPH to 70MPH when you made contact with John > (Judged from my client replay.)

90mph and accelerating out of turn 2 is most definitely faster than pace speed at any track you might care to mention. I suggest that Tim goes back to the rules page and finds the section regarding cautions.

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> > But there was not way I hit you hard enough to wreck 4th gear or the > > power loss I took. > > A 30MPH difference in speed can cause a fair bit of damage ;) > > > Like I told my wife, my 1st RASCAR race and I take out one of the > > guys that run the league. (F%$%#$) > > I'm sure you'll have a chance to get even > > > > Tim. > > Shit happens, unfortunately yours happened to involve John, who > unfortunately has had some bad luck in RASCAR this year so you bore the > brunt. Though to be fair to John, he has been very restrained with you :)

The *nly* reason I haven't laid into him is because I had other shit to do anyway. For what it's worth, he shouldn't expect me to be very understanding the next time.

In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Oster <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> writes: >Saturday Live Night???? Was that anything like MAD TV? Dunno - I don't watch MAD TV...<g> >Actually used to watch SNL all the time... just don't remember that >character. Of course now I will have to invest hours and hours of >watching Comedy Central to figure out your joke Eldred. She was on the show from 1975-1979(I didn't realize it was THAT long ago...) http://www.videoflicks.com/saturdaynightlive/gilda_radner.htm Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.950 MonsterRank: +305.145 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Brian Oster <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> On 07 May 2003 02:37:19 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >>In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Oster >><bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> writes: >> >>>On 06 May 2003 17:00:55 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>Restarts? >>>><insert Emily Litella voice> >>> >>>Emily Litella??? >> >>Wow, you must be young... >> >>Emily Litella was a character played by Gilda Radner on Saturday Night >>Live - back when the show was GOOD... :-) >> >>Eldred > > Saturday Live Night???? Was that anything like MAD TV? > > Actually used to watch SNL all the time... just don't remember that > character. Of course now I will have to invest hours and hours of > watching Comedy Central to figure out your joke Eldred. > > Brian Oster

During the news updates with Chevy and then later Jane Curtain and BIll Murray, she's come on as a little ol woman and complain about some problem. Then the hosts would correct her since she had always mis-heard and her rants were meaningless...so she'd then calm down and say... nevermind..in a quiet voice. Goodnight Gilda... dave henrie

uh oh. Im starting to feel old. I thought that everyone knew what saturday night live was. sigh "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Oster > <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> writes: > > >Saturday Live Night???? Was that anything like MAD TV? > > Dunno - I don't watch MAD TV...<g> > > >Actually used to watch SNL all the time... just don't remember that > >character. Of course now I will have to invest hours and hours of > >watching Comedy Central to figure out your joke Eldred. > > She was on the show from 1975-1979(I didn't realize it was THAT long

ago...)

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> http://www.videoflicks.com/saturdaynightlive/gilda_radner.htm > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:-1.950 > MonsterRank: +305.145 > N2002 Rank:+17.59 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

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>During the news updates with Chevy and then later Jane Curtain and BIll >Murray, she's come on as a little ol woman and complain about some problem. >Then the hosts would correct her since she had always mis-heard and her >rants were meaningless...so she'd then calm down and say... >nevermind..in a quiet voice. > >Goodnight Gilda... > >dave henrie

Amen Dave.....my favorite Emily mis-heard rant....WHAT'S ALL THIS I HEAR ABOUT PRESIDENTIAL ERECTIONS?? nevermind.

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> > Shit happens, unfortunately yours happened to involve John, who > unfortunately has had some bad luck in RASCAR this year so you bore the > brunt. Though to be fair to John, he has been very restrained with you :) > -- > > Ian P > <email invalid due to spammers> > > > >

Oh I know! Not planning on letting it happen again, either. Tim

>uh.....that was me. Sorry, Bamadano oops..just saw this post Boyk....it was as much me as it was you. My entry on that turn sucked and like you said...one of them racin deals. I think I'll join the damage rant as well. Light tap...slow spin = low power??? Dan

>uh oh. Im starting to feel old. I thought that everyone knew what saturday >night live was. >sigh So do/did I, Grub... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.950 MonsterRank: +305.145 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Ed, I thank you for the lap. Sorry it turned out bad for you though :( Larry "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3eb561b1$[email hidden]...

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> > "Brian Oster" \writes: > > > My appolgies to Ed (sort of). I looked at the replay and it looked > > like you came down onto me, but I shoulda given more room with that > > many laps left. I was really driving you up the track and you broke > > on the turn sooner than I did. You were definetly the fastest guy > > there and would have most certainly won the race. I was a 5th place > > car at best. I Chalk it up to one of those racin deals but I should > > have given a little more than I took. > > That should have been my race I think - or atleast that what I like to > think :-) > Like you said... it's just one of 'em racing deals.. I wanted to give

Larry > his lap back as soon as possible 'cause the last thing I wanted was to be > rear-ended into a corner (no pun Larry)... I figured the best way wasjust > to let him go early on and then stick to his bumber until the next yellow > came out.. I figured I had a fast enough car to keep both you and Neil > behind me so to me it would have benn one less thing to worry about.. > > Anyways, what actually happend was that, as I was letting Larry go passedI > went soo high up the track that I touched the wall. I wanted to get out of > that asap so it wouldnt cut my speed down... Unfortunatly, you hadfollowed > me up the banking and, as I was coming down again - you were right besideme > and we touched. :-( > And then as I was coming to a halt beside the outside wall - Grub hit me > head on at full speed - sending me flying down the track and killing my > engine - my race was done. > > Richmond marked my 1 year anniversary in RASCAR... This was the firsttrack > I competed at last season - finishing second to Mike - so I was thrilledas > hell with my pace on Saturday. I had a damn good car - something Neilmust > have seen. Those 3 laps side-by-side sure was amazing! I also felt I could > control my pace so it would have made for an exicting finish.... > > Anyway kudos to the front-runners and "lappers" (hate that word) - it wasa

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> good race and an exicting finish.... And con'grats to Ian for winning - > even though he did "cheat" <g!> :o) > > > -- > ed_ > http://rascar.racesimcentral.com > --------------------------------------- > $10 say Petter Solberg wins the 2003 WRC > >

Oh, I don't think I would have held him up. I believe I proved that :) I was haulin' ass on that track at the end :) Larry "Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sun, 4 May 2003 20:56:00 +0200, "Ed Solheim" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >That should have been my race I think - or atleast that what I like to > >think :-) > >Like you said... it's just one of 'em racing deals.. I wanted to give

Larry > >his lap back as soon as possible 'cause the last thing I wanted was to be > >rear-ended into a corner (no pun Larry)... I figured the best way wasjust > >to let him go early on and then stick to his bumber until the next yellow > >came out.. I figured I had a fast enough car to keep both you and Neil > >behind me so to me it would have benn one less thing to worry about.. > > > >Anyways, what actually happend was that, as I was letting Larry go passedI > >went soo high up the track that I touched the wall. I wanted to get outof > >that asap so it wouldnt cut my speed down... Unfortunatly, you hadfollowed > >me up the banking and, as I was coming down again - you were right besideme

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> >and we touched. :-( > >And then as I was coming to a halt beside the outside wall - Grub hit me > >head on at full speed - sending me flying down the track and killing my > >engine - my race was done. > > > > You were the fastest which is why I wondered why you were letting > Larry by. If I know I am the faster car I will race a lapper pretty > hard to keep him behind me because if I let him by he will just hold > me up and I'll have too pass him back. Now if the yellow comes out > and the lapper is in touch I may pull over and let him go. Although, I > guess if he was banging on your bumper pretty hard I can see why you > let him go, he was pretty strong and at that point he was probably > pushing it as hard as he could. Anyway, when you pulled over to let > Larry by I figured as long as you were opening the door... > > One thing I wish Papy would have fixed was the physics model for > "casual contact". You should be able to bang doors without the car > getting so out of shape. We barely touched and yet your car took off > like it had been shot with a cannon. I actually didn't even feel > anything, but I knew what had happened. > > Brian Oster