New Wheel! Wow!!

Hey all, I just bought a Saitek R440 Force Feedback Wheel. I am now trying to relearn how to drive NR2K3 :-) This is really nice, much more realistic feel to it *grin*! I am trying to find a good position to sit and drive. Long legs and a small computer cart are not real good for trying to drive. I just tried attatching it to my kids plastic snow board and laid that accross my legs. Worked pretty good for stretching my legs and I like to have my face back from the screen, it seems to give me better depth perception if I can be about as far back as I am from my real windshield. Does anyone else find that to be true? After just a short tryout it has totally changed the way I have to "read" the track. Went to Michigan, a nice big oval and started turning some pretty decent laps. I like the feel I get when the back tires start to let loose a little, of course that leads me right into oversteer :-), have to forget the reaction time of the linear wheel, not to mention the steering was about as loose as my '79 Bronco hehe. Watchout RASCAR, I got three weeks to bone up on this thing. *grinning like a damn fool* ;-)~ -- McWhom -----------------------------------------------------------------

I have never raced without a FF wheel (MS FF), and quite frankly I don't know if I could. N2003 really does a good job of translating what the car is doing through the wheel. I can "feel" the car get loose or tight, roll over, etc. Again, couldn't drive w/o it. Brian Oster On Thu, 8 May 2003 16:06:56 -0400, "mcwhom" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >Hey all, > I just bought a Saitek R440 Force Feedback Wheel. I am now trying to >relearn how to drive NR2K3 :-) > This is really nice, much more realistic feel to it *grin*! I am >trying to find a good position to sit and drive. Long legs and a small >computer cart are not real good for trying to drive. I just tried >attatching it to my kids plastic snow board and laid that accross my legs. >Worked pretty good for stretching my legs and I like to have my face back >from the screen, it seems to give me better depth perception if I can be >about as far back as I am from my real windshield. Does anyone else find >that to be true? > After just a short tryout it has totally changed the way I have to >"read" the track. Went to Michigan, a nice big oval and started turning >some pretty decent laps. I like the feel I get when the back tires start to >let loose a little, of course that leads me right into oversteer :-), have >to forget the reaction time of the linear wheel, not to mention the steering >was about as loose as my '79 Bronco hehe. > Watchout RASCAR, I got three weeks to bone up on this thing. >*grinning like a damn fool* ;-)~

Funny you should say that. I tried the N2003 demo as so many have raved over the physics, but to me I get very little feel for what the car is doing and little chance to catch a spin. I use a BRD Sim Pro wheel (no Force feedback), which is great for GPL, but N2003 is a world away, and I can only assume its the lack of FF that makes the difference. Is there anyone out there using a non-FF wheel who thinks N2003 has more feel than GPL? Paul "Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I have never raced without a FF wheel (MS FF), and quite frankly I > don't know if I could. N2003 really does a good job of translating > what the car is doing through the wheel. I can "feel" the car get > loose or tight, roll over, etc. Again, couldn't drive w/o it. > > Brian Oster > > On Thu, 8 May 2003 16:06:56 -0400, "mcwhom" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Hey all, > > I just bought a Saitek R440 Force Feedback Wheel. I am now trying

to > >relearn how to drive NR2K3 :-) > > This is really nice, much more realistic feel to it *grin*! I am > >trying to find a good position to sit and drive. Long legs and a small > >computer cart are not real good for trying to drive. I just tried > >attatching it to my kids plastic snow board and laid that accross mylegs.

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> >Worked pretty good for stretching my legs and I like to have my face back > >from the screen, it seems to give me better depth perception if I can be > >about as far back as I am from my real windshield. Does anyone else find > >that to be true? > > After just a short tryout it has totally changed the way I have to > >"read" the track. Went to Michigan, a nice big oval and started turning > >some pretty decent laps. I like the feel I get when the back tires start

to > >let loose a little, of course that leads me right into oversteer :-),have > >to forget the reaction time of the linear wheel, not to mention thesteering > >was about as loose as my '79 Bronco hehe. > > Watchout RASCAR, I got three weeks to bone up on this thing. > >*grinning like a damn fool* ;-)~ >

"Paul Harrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:e4Cua.745$[email hidden]... : Funny you should say that. I tried the N2003 demo as so many have raved over : the physics, but to me I get very little feel for what the car is doing and : little chance to catch a spin. I use a BRD Sim Pro wheel (no Force : feedback), which is great for GPL, but N2003 is a world away, and I can only : assume its the lack of FF that makes the difference. Is there anyone out : there using a non-FF wheel who thinks N2003 has more feel than GPL? : : Paul : : "Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> wrote in message : news:[email hidden]... <<SNIP>> : > : > On Thu, 8 May 2003 16:06:56 -0400, "mcwhom" : > <[email hidden]> wrote: : > <<SNIP>> : > : : I was using a MadCatz Puma GT wheel before I bought this new one. It is about 3 years old. I should point out that it developed a nasty pull to the left after driving Nascar Racing 2 for a few months and basically became useless untill I got bored and started fiddleing around the inerds. Got a calibration of sorts worked out so I could drive with it but ended up with a lot of play and was loosy goosy, very bad for trying to race people as I am sure some RASCAR folks can attest. Perhaps it was really a problem with not having ff to help with steering as you have suggested. Once I got loose, a spin was all but inevitable at many tracks. Having said that, there is a vast difference in the feel with force feedback. Much easier to *feel* the car breaking loose and thus not catch a spin but ride on the edge of it. I am already racing door to door on several tracks and have not had this wheel a full day yet. -- McWhom -----------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 9 May 2003 00:52:17 +0100, "Paul Harrington" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Funny you should say that. I tried the N2003 demo as so many have raved over >the physics, but to me I get very little feel for what the car is doing and >little chance to catch a spin. I use a BRD Sim Pro wheel (no Force >feedback), which is great for GPL, but N2003 is a world away, and I can only >assume its the lack of FF that makes the difference. Is there anyone out >there using a non-FF wheel who thinks N2003 has more feel than GPL? *raises hand* Actually, I abhor force feedback and find that it just confuses me most of the time when the sim does a pretty good job of relaying information via visual/audio cues. That said, the limit of traction in a stock car is going to be narrower than in a 67 F1 car both because GPL has somewhat unrealistic slip angles but also because you're dealing with aero. Jason

I still use a TM T2 wheel I bought back in 1996. I think it might have been the first true wheel/pedal combo on the market, lol. Anyways, I have no problem feeling the cars in N2003, GPL, GTR2002, etc... I also run online with N2003 and GTR2002 some and I'm a top 3 - 5 car consistently. I actually can't stand force feedback. Seems too "fake", IMO. --------------------------------------------- Thanks, Aaron Markham RATE MY CAR AT CARDOMAIN.COM! http://www.cardomain.com/id/amarkham *RIP Ayrton Senna & Dale Earnhardt* "Paul Harrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:e4Cua.745$[email hidden]... > Funny you should say that. I tried the N2003 demo as so many have ravedover > the physics, but to me I get very little feel for what the car is doingand > little chance to catch a spin. I use a BRD Sim Pro wheel (no Force > feedback), which is great for GPL, but N2003 is a world away, and I canonly

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> assume its the lack of FF that makes the difference. Is there anyone out > there using a non-FF wheel who thinks N2003 has more feel than GPL? > > Paul > > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I have never raced without a FF wheel (MS FF), and quite frankly I > > don't know if I could. N2003 really does a good job of translating > > what the car is doing through the wheel. I can "feel" the car get > > loose or tight, roll over, etc. Again, couldn't drive w/o it. > > > > Brian Oster > > > > On Thu, 8 May 2003 16:06:56 -0400, "mcwhom" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > > >Hey all, > > > I just bought a Saitek R440 Force Feedback Wheel. I am now trying > to > > >relearn how to drive NR2K3 :-) > > > This is really nice, much more realistic feel to it *grin*! I am > > >trying to find a good position to sit and drive. Long legs and a small > > >computer cart are not real good for trying to drive. I just tried > > >attatching it to my kids plastic snow board and laid that accross my > legs. > > >Worked pretty good for stretching my legs and I like to have my face

back > > >from the screen, it seems to give me better depth perception if I canbe > > >about as far back as I am from my real windshield. Does anyone elsefind > > >that to be true? > > > After just a short tryout it has totally changed the way I have to > > >"read" the track. Went to Michigan, a nice big oval and startedturning > > >some pretty decent laps. I like the feel I get when the back tiresstart

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> to > > >let loose a little, of course that leads me right into oversteer :-), > have > > >to forget the reaction time of the linear wheel, not to mention the > steering > > >was about as loose as my '79 Bronco hehe. > > > Watchout RASCAR, I got three weeks to bone up on this thing. > > >*grinning like a damn fool* ;-)~ > > > >

Actually, it was the T1, had a larger oversize wheel on it :). I have to say I am very much a FF fan now, I had the T2, then a TSW2, and now have a Logitech Momo usb FF, and a MSFF usb wheel. I love FF, once tuned in I find it very much translates what the car is doing, and I wouldn't want to go back to non FF now. Aaron Markham wrote:

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> I still use a TM T2 wheel I bought back in 1996. I think it might > have been the first true wheel/pedal combo on the market, lol. > Anyways, I have no problem feeling the cars in N2003, GPL, GTR2002, > etc... I also run online with N2003 and GTR2002 some and I'm a top 3 > - 5 car consistently. I actually can't stand force feedback. Seems > too "fake", IMO. > > --------------------------------------------- > Thanks, > Aaron Markham > > RATE MY CAR AT CARDOMAIN.COM! > http://www.cardomain.com/id/amarkham > > *RIP Ayrton Senna & Dale Earnhardt* > "Paul Harrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:e4Cua.745$[email hidden]... >> Funny you should say that. I tried the N2003 demo as so many have >> raved over the physics, but to me I get very little feel for what >> the car is doing and little chance to catch a spin. I use a BRD Sim >> Pro wheel (no Force feedback), which is great for GPL, but N2003 is >> a world away, and I can only assume its the lack of FF that makes >> the difference. Is there anyone out there using a non-FF wheel who >> thinks N2003 has more feel than GPL? >> >> Paul >> >> "Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >>> I have never raced without a FF wheel (MS FF), and quite frankly I >>> don't know if I could. N2003 really does a good job of translating >>> what the car is doing through the wheel. I can "feel" the car get >>> loose or tight, roll over, etc. Again, couldn't drive w/o it. >>> >>> Brian Oster >>> >>> On Thu, 8 May 2003 16:06:56 -0400, "mcwhom" >>> <[email hidden]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hey all, >>>> I just bought a Saitek R440 Force Feedback Wheel. I am now >>>> trying to relearn how to drive NR2K3 :-) >>>> This is really nice, much more realistic feel to it *grin*! I >>>> am trying to find a good position to sit and drive. Long legs and >>>> a small computer cart are not real good for trying to drive. I >>>> just tried attatching it to my kids plastic snow board and laid >>>> that accross my legs. Worked pretty good for stretching my legs >>>> and I like to have my face back from the screen, it seems to give >>>> me better depth perception if I can be about as far back as I am >>>> from my real windshield. Does anyone else find that to be true? >>>> After just a short tryout it has totally changed the way I >>>> have to "read" the track. Went to Michigan, a nice big oval and >>>> started turning some pretty decent laps. I like the feel I get >>>> when the back tires start to let loose a little, of course that >>>> leads me right into oversteer :-), have to forget the reaction >>>> time of the linear wheel, not to mention the steering was about as >>>> loose as my '79 Bronco hehe. Watchout RASCAR, I got three >>>> weeks to bone up on this thing. *grinning like a damn fool* >>>> ;-)~

remove clothes when replying via email

Didnt the T1 have the "pedals" as paddles behind the steering wheel?? I think the T2 was when they made the pedals seperate, could be wrong though, lol. Still behind the times though because it's single axis not dual like the newer wheels. Can't use the gas/brake at the same time, makes road courses a little more of a pain but I manage. --------------------------------------------- Thanks, Aaron Markham RATE MY CAR AT CARDOMAIN.COM! http://www.cardomain.com/id/amarkham *RIP Ayrton Senna & Dale Earnhardt* "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Actually, it was the T1, had a larger oversize wheel on it :). > > I have to say I am very much a FF fan now, I had the T2, then a TSW2, and > now have a Logitech Momo usb FF, and a MSFF usb wheel. > I love FF, once tuned in I find it very much translates what the car is > doing, and I wouldn't want to go back to non FF now. > > > > Aaron Markham wrote: > > I still use a TM T2 wheel I bought back in 1996. I think it might > > have been the first true wheel/pedal combo on the market, lol. > > Anyways, I have no problem feeling the cars in N2003, GPL, GTR2002, > > etc... I also run online with N2003 and GTR2002 some and I'm a top 3 > > - 5 car consistently. I actually can't stand force feedback. Seems > > too "fake", IMO. > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > Thanks, > > Aaron Markham > > > > RATE MY CAR AT CARDOMAIN.COM! > > http://www.cardomain.com/id/amarkham > > > > *RIP Ayrton Senna & Dale Earnhardt* > > "Paul Harrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:e4Cua.745$[email hidden]... > >> Funny you should say that. I tried the N2003 demo as so many have > >> raved over the physics, but to me I get very little feel for what > >> the car is doing and little chance to catch a spin. I use a BRD Sim > >> Pro wheel (no Force feedback), which is great for GPL, but N2003 is > >> a world away, and I can only assume its the lack of FF that makes > >> the difference. Is there anyone out there using a non-FF wheel who > >> thinks N2003 has more feel than GPL? > >> > >> Paul > >> > >> "Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> wrote in message > >> news:[email hidden]... > >>> I have never raced without a FF wheel (MS FF), and quite frankly I > >>> don't know if I could. N2003 really does a good job of translating > >>> what the car is doing through the wheel. I can "feel" the car get > >>> loose or tight, roll over, etc. Again, couldn't drive w/o it. > >>> > >>> Brian Oster > >>> > >>> On Thu, 8 May 2003 16:06:56 -0400, "mcwhom" > >>> <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> Hey all, > >>>> I just bought a Saitek R440 Force Feedback Wheel. I am now > >>>> trying to relearn how to drive NR2K3 :-) > >>>> This is really nice, much more realistic feel to it *grin*! I > >>>> am trying to find a good position to sit and drive. Long legs and > >>>> a small computer cart are not real good for trying to drive. I > >>>> just tried attatching it to my kids plastic snow board and laid > >>>> that accross my legs. Worked pretty good for stretching my legs > >>>> and I like to have my face back from the screen, it seems to give > >>>> me better depth perception if I can be about as far back as I am > >>>> from my real windshield. Does anyone else find that to be true? > >>>> After just a short tryout it has totally changed the way I > >>>> have to "read" the track. Went to Michigan, a nice big oval and > >>>> started turning some pretty decent laps. I like the feel I get > >>>> when the back tires start to let loose a little, of course that > >>>> leads me right into oversteer :-), have to forget the reaction > >>>> time of the linear wheel, not to mention the steering was about as > >>>> loose as my '79 Bronco hehe. Watchout RASCAR, I got three > >>>> weeks to bone up on this thing. *grinning like a damn fool* > >>>> ;-)~ > > > > remove clothes when replying via email > >

"Aaron Markham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:HiEua.146262$[email hidden]...

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> Didnt the T1 have the "pedals" as paddles behind the steering wheel?? I > think the T2 was when they made the pedals seperate, could be wrong though, > lol. Still behind the times though because it's single axis not dual like > the newer wheels. Can't use the gas/brake at the same time, makes road > courses a little more of a pain but I manage. > > ---------------------------------------------

No, the T1 had pedals, but they had rollers on them like dune buggys have. It didn't have a single/dual axis switch but it had a plug-in adapter to split the axis. After the T2, there came the TM ProDigital, which I believe had no more pots. After that, TM made a FF wheel. But I don't know anything about it.

Had T1 / T2 and Logitech wingman (yellow). Loved the roller t/1 pedals...just great. Now, for the first time I bought a Logitech Momo force feedback and I love it. Got it a month ago and with GTR2002 there is just no comparison with anything else I have ever used. On the other hand, I am not very impressed with the FF on Nascar 2003. Just very loose without a solid feel of feedback. I have dabbled with the settings in the sim, but nothing I really like. Anyone have any input on what to do to change the settings outside the sim? Thanks, Mike

>Actually, I abhor force feedback and find that it just confuses me >most of the time when the sim does a pretty good job of relaying >information via visual/audio cues. > ?! I don't have FF. I've lost track of how many times the car has gotten away from me, and I have NO idea why... I wish I could borrow a FF wheel to see if it made a difference. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.950 MonsterRank: +305.145 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" wrote... > > <snip> > ?! > I don't have FF. I've lost track of how many times the > car has gotten away from me, and I have NO idea why... > I wish I could borrow a FF wheel to see if it made a > difference. If you're ever around these parts you're welcome to try my rig. Jan. =---

> I still use a TM T2 wheel I bought back in 1996. Congrats! Me too, I've replaced the pots on mine twice, and installed the split-axis mod as well. Its still going strong! rms

Funny, I wish I could turn the FF off... Larry "Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I have never raced without a FF wheel (MS FF), and quite frankly I > don't know if I could. N2003 really does a good job of translating > what the car is doing through the wheel. I can "feel" the car get > loose or tight, roll over, etc. Again, couldn't drive w/o it. > > Brian Oster > > On Thu, 8 May 2003 16:06:56 -0400, "mcwhom" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Hey all, > > I just bought a Saitek R440 Force Feedback Wheel. I am now trying

to > >relearn how to drive NR2K3 :-) > > This is really nice, much more realistic feel to it *grin*! I am > >trying to find a good position to sit and drive. Long legs and a small > >computer cart are not real good for trying to drive. I just tried > >attatching it to my kids plastic snow board and laid that accross mylegs.

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> >Worked pretty good for stretching my legs and I like to have my face back > >from the screen, it seems to give me better depth perception if I can be > >about as far back as I am from my real windshield. Does anyone else find > >that to be true? > > After just a short tryout it has totally changed the way I have to > >"read" the track. Went to Michigan, a nice big oval and started turning > >some pretty decent laps. I like the feel I get when the back tires start

to > >let loose a little, of course that leads me right into oversteer :-),have > >to forget the reaction time of the linear wheel, not to mention thesteering > >was about as loose as my '79 Bronco hehe. > > Watchout RASCAR, I got three weeks to bone up on this thing. > >*grinning like a damn fool* ;-)~ >

uhm, Larry? You can, in either the NR2K3 options or in your game controller settings for windows. As far as that goes, while shopping I saw a lot of analog wheels for around $20 \ -- McWhom ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:g%Yua.44342$[email hidden]... : Funny, I wish I could turn the FF off... : : Larry : : "Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> wrote in message : news:[email hidden]... : > I have never raced without a FF wheel (MS FF), and quite frankly I : > don't know if I could. N2003 really does a good job of translating : > what the car is doing through the wheel. I can "feel" the car get : > loose or tight, roll over, etc. Again, couldn't drive w/o it. : > : > Brian Oster : > : > On Thu, 8 May 2003 16:06:56 -0400, "mcwhom" : > <[email hidden]> wrote: : > : > > : > >Hey all, : > > I just bought a Saitek R440 Force Feedback Wheel. I am now trying : to : > >relearn how to drive NR2K3 :-) : > > This is really nice, much more realistic feel to it *grin*! I am : > >trying to find a good position to sit and drive. Long legs and a small : > >computer cart are not real good for trying to drive. I just tried : > >attatching it to my kids plastic snow board and laid that accross my : legs. : > >Worked pretty good for stretching my legs and I like to have my face back : > >from the screen, it seems to give me better depth perception if I can be : > >about as far back as I am from my real windshield. Does anyone else find : > >that to be true? : > > After just a short tryout it has totally changed the way I have to : > >"read" the track. Went to Michigan, a nice big oval and started turning : > >some pretty decent laps. I like the feel I get when the back tires start : to : > >let loose a little, of course that leads me right into oversteer :-), : have : > >to forget the reaction time of the linear wheel, not to mention the : steering : > >was about as loose as my '79 Bronco hehe. : > > Watchout RASCAR, I got three weeks to bone up on this thing. : > >*grinning like a damn fool* ;-)~ : > : :

I know this, of course :) The problem is, with the realistic suspension modeling since Nascar Racing 4 (and the resultant pull to the left) turning off the FF in a FF wheel results in a strong phony centering spring that, especially on SuperSpeedways, is unmanageable. Most controller profile software allows you to set the strength of the centering spring, but Nascar Racing 2003 (stupidly) bypasses any profiler settings and sets the centering spring on full-tilt. In other words, it's not an option. Until (If - I doubt it) Papyrus fixes this in a patch I just set the FF down to about 20%. Larry "mcwhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > uhm, Larry? You can, in either the NR2K3 options or in your gamecontroller

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> settings for windows. As far as that goes, while shopping I saw a lot of > analog wheels for around $20 > \ > > -- > McWhom > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:g%Yua.44342$[email hidden]... > : Funny, I wish I could turn the FF off... > : > : Larry > : > : "Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> wrote in message > : news:[email hidden]... > : > I have never raced without a FF wheel (MS FF), and quite frankly I > : > don't know if I could. N2003 really does a good job of translating > : > what the car is doing through the wheel. I can "feel" the car get > : > loose or tight, roll over, etc. Again, couldn't drive w/o it. > : > > : > Brian Oster > : > > : > On Thu, 8 May 2003 16:06:56 -0400, "mcwhom" > : > <[email hidden]> wrote: > : > > : > > > : > >Hey all, > : > > I just bought a Saitek R440 Force Feedback Wheel. I am now

trying > : to > : > >relearn how to drive NR2K3 :-) > : > > This is really nice, much more realistic feel to it *grin*! Iam > : > >trying to find a good position to sit and drive. Long legs and asmall

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> : > >computer cart are not real good for trying to drive. I just tried > : > >attatching it to my kids plastic snow board and laid that accross my > : legs. > : > >Worked pretty good for stretching my legs and I like to have my face > back > : > >from the screen, it seems to give me better depth perception if I can > be > : > >about as far back as I am from my real windshield. Does anyone else > find > : > >that to be true? > : > > After just a short tryout it has totally changed the way I have

to

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> : > >"read" the track. Went to Michigan, a nice big oval and started > turning > : > >some pretty decent laps. I like the feel I get when the back tires > start > : to > : > >let loose a little, of course that leads me right into oversteer :-), > : have > : > >to forget the reaction time of the linear wheel, not to mention the > : steering > : > >was about as loose as my '79 Bronco hehe. > : > > Watchout RASCAR, I got three weeks to bone up on this thing. > : > >*grinning like a damn fool* ;-)~ > : > > : > : > >

Larry, I turned off the centering spring in the control applet... Mines Microsoft though, I cant believe your wheel software doesn't have that option.... and I get that "full-on phantom centering spring" about 1 out of 6 times I join a race online,... I usually hit the windows key (lets me go back to desktop), and reset it in the control panel thing (mines in the systray easy to get up) this trick usually works until I leave the server too. Although for some reason I had one league event where the dang thing turned on each and every session... what hellion problem that is... Got similar problem on my folk's machine, every time I launch nascar 2003 it sets the friggin AC97 software to "Quarry" environment for the dam speaker output... I cannot figure out what the hell is causing that nor how to make it stop. "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zvlva.50656$[email hidden]... > I know this, of course :) > > The problem is, with the realistic suspension modeling since Nascar Racing4 > (and the resultant pull to the left) turning off the FF in a FF wheel > results in a strong phony centering spring that, especially on > SuperSpeedways, is unmanageable.

friggin AC97 software to "Quarry" environment for the dam speaker Huh? Don't understand this but it has to be something to do with the speaker choice/sound options in the game sending a signal to the sound control for windows. Have you turned on/off the 3d sound options? -- McWhom ----------------------------------------------------------------- "PlowBoy (not at home)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ClZva.20299$[email hidden]... : Larry, :

Same wheel here. I run OpenGL, so exiting out to Windows ain't a good idea :) Larry "PlowBoy (not at home)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ClZva.20299$[email hidden]... > Larry, > > I turned off the centering spring in the control applet... MinesMicrosoft > though, I cant believe your wheel software doesn't have that option....and > I get that "full-on phantom centering spring" about 1 out of 6 times Ijoin > a race online,... I usually hit the windows key (lets me go back to > desktop), and reset it in the control panel thing (mines in the systrayeasy > to get up) this trick usually works until I leave the server too.Although > for some reason I had one league event where the dang thing turned on each > and every session... what hellion problem that is... > > Got similar problem on my folk's machine, every time I launch nascar 2003it > sets the friggin AC97 software to "Quarry" environment for the dam speaker > output... I cannot figure out what the hell is causing that nor how tomake

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> it stop. > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:zvlva.50656$[email hidden]... > > I know this, of course :) > > > > The problem is, with the realistic suspension modeling since Nascar

Racing

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> 4 > > (and the resultant pull to the left) turning off the FF in a FF wheel > > results in a strong phony centering spring that, especially on > > SuperSpeedways, is unmanageable. > > >

Ive got the same problem Mike. GTR the FF rocks. In N2003 it pretty much stinks. If I get to the point of no oscillations there is literally no feedback with the wheel. Ive got a txt file with Sphanky's settings that seem to work as best Ive seen. Let me know if ya want it. Mitch "Race1530" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > On the other hand, I am not very impressed with the FF on Nascar 2003.Just > very loose without a solid feel of feedback. I have dabbled with thesettings > in the sim, but nothing I really like. Anyone have any input on what todo to > change the settings outside the sim? > > Thanks, > Mike >

Hey Mitch...I'd like to tale a look at that file. Dan

Sure Dan. Here ya go. For the MOMO people, do this. Start/Settings/Control Panel/Game Controllers. Then.. Double Left Click on the MOMO, then click the Settings button (bottom right). Then set these options... Combined - unticked (ie: no checkmark) [this allows your brake and gas pedals to be on a separate axis, which is important to have] Enable Force Feedback - ticked (ie: checkmark it) [this allows force feedback in games duh] Overall Effects Strength - 97% [the reason for 97% and NOT 100% is a long and complicated explanation, but in short it helps oscillations from happening] Spring Effects Strength - 0% [no Papyrus sims use this setting and oddly enough, if you set it to anything other than 0% you will get undesirable effects] Damper Effects Strength - 0% [very VERY important to set this to 0%, this is probably THE most important setting, as it will greatly increase notchiness and wheel twitches, even though the Papyrus sims do not exactly enable it] Enable Centering Spring - ticked [you are going to find this strange, because in the next setting I tell you to set it to 0%, which is odd because why not just untick it? well, there's a reason and here it is... if you don't tick this option and also don't have Damping set -which if your going with these settings you won't- then a strange phenomenon happens, you will find that if you turn your wheel rather sharply, the resistance of the wheel just "gives out" which is not something you want to happen. I will also admit that having this unchecked does appear to give slightly better forces -SLIGHTLY- but the repercussions just aren't worth it for the payoff. so in the end check this option] Centering Spring Strength - 0% [this is IMPORTANT! i know it's weird, but you must set it to 0% - read above option for better explanation] Then in your Logitech Wingman Profiler, create a Nascar 2003 profile and then set these settings as follows... Steering Wheel Sensitivity to 33% [the reason you want to go down from the default 50% to 33% is because at 50% the wheel is too sensitive to tiny wheel adjustments... which is not realistic. drive your car and notice how far you have to turn your wheel... the MOMO have a large radius to turn, it's a shame most people only move it 5 degrees to either side. this setting should allow more precise driving and overall smoothness as well - and you can go down even lower if you wish, to say, 25% if you want to have even more movement, but i suggest 33% for starters at least, get used to that and go more later if you like the effect] Steering Wheel Dead Zone - 2% [another long explanation would be needed and I don't feel like telling, but in short this also helps oscillations and twitchiness] Accelerator Sensitivity - 55% [strangely, this option is the exact opposite of the Steering, INCREASING this option from the default 50% to 55% makes the gas less sensitive to the immediate input, in other words, you have to push down farther before the car gets more power. the default 50% is a little touchy - when you barely touch the pedal the car can spin out. 55% helps this from happening and overall gives a more natural and fine tune approach] Accelerator Dead Zone - 2% [much the same reasoning as above, this helps from keeping your car getting to much gas too fast] Brake Sensitivity - 55% [exact same reasons as accelerator, increasing this to 55% helps your brakes from locking up to fast. one word of note though is that I have modified my brake pedal to include the squash ball instead of the spring, so that may make a difference in your setup. just note that increasing this gives less immediate braking and can help if your tires are locking up too easily under braking] Brake Dead Zone - 2% [same reasons as all the others dead zones] Now, in Nascar 2003, enable the Force Feedback option under the Controls tab and you should run this setting in between 35-65 (50 being most common setting) depending on the track and more importantly, on your setup for that track. I know this is a pain to have to do at each individual track, but depending on your setup you will need to adjust the strength of the forces in game between each track change. Just start out from 50 and work from there. the key to adjusting strength is this... if the wheel has a "notchy" feel, lower the setting till it JUST goes away, if it doesn't have a notchy feel, then raise it till you feel the notchyness and then lower it till it just goes away again. In essence giving you the most forces while remaining smooth. Leave Damping completely off in game... but *IF* and only if you are oscillating exiting a corner on the straight, then you can slightly and slowly increase it in game till you stop oscillating, but I doubt many of you will have oscillation problems because the settings we set up earlier should rid you of any. This is the only good thing Damping is good for, so try not to use it unless you have to because it hurts your performance elsewhere. and again, NEVER EVER EVER use the Damping setting in windows, the one found in the control panel... and only use the in-game damping if you absolutely must (as this can mask the real forces and it also increases notchiness by a factor of 3 fold). Leave latency off in game (0%). It only provides fake and incorrect forces at usually the wrong time anyways and can definitely get in the way of things and effect the overall impressions of the wheel with the rest of these settings described here. if you honestly feel like forces are literally coming too late (which I find very hard to believe) and you feel like you absolutely have to add to this setting, go ahead and increase it... with 25 being your absolute max (15 the preferred max) and 0% being the optimal. "Bamadano" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Hey Mitch...I'd like to tale a look at that file. > Dan

One other note. I add about 15% spring centering (despite his advice. I just like some forces) and bring down the deadzone from 2% to 1%. If anyone has any other suggestions feel free. Mitch' "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1sVya.4884$[email hidden]...

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> Sure Dan. Here ya go. > > > > For the MOMO people, do this. > > Start/Settings/Control Panel/Game Controllers. > > Then.. > > Double Left Click on the MOMO, then click the Settings button (bottom > right). > > Then set these options... > > Combined - unticked (ie: no checkmark) [this allows your brake and gas > pedals to be on a separate axis, which is important to have] > > Enable Force Feedback - ticked (ie: checkmark it) [this allows force > feedback in games duh] > > Overall Effects Strength - 97% [the reason for 97% and NOT 100% is a long > and complicated explanation, but in short it helps oscillations from > happening] > > Spring Effects Strength - 0% [no Papyrus sims use this setting and oddly > enough, if you set it to anything other than 0% you will get undesirable > effects] > > Damper Effects Strength - 0% [very VERY important to set this to 0%, this

is > probably THE most important setting, as it will greatly increasenotchiness > and wheel twitches, even though the Papyrus sims do not exactly enable it] > > Enable Centering Spring - ticked [you are going to find this strange, > because in the next setting I tell you to set it to 0%, which is oddbecause > why not just untick it? well, there's a reason and here it is... if you > don't tick this option and also don't have Damping set -which if yourgoing > with these settings you won't- then a strange phenomenon happens, you will > find that if you turn your wheel rather sharply, the resistance of thewheel > just "gives out" which is not something you want to happen. I will also > admit that having this unchecked does appear to give slightly better > forces -SLIGHTLY- but the repercussions just aren't worth it for thepayoff.

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> so in the end check this option] > > Centering Spring Strength - 0% [this is IMPORTANT! i know it's weird, but > you must set it to 0% - read above option for better explanation] > > Then in your Logitech Wingman Profiler, create a Nascar 2003 profile and > then set these settings as follows... > > Steering Wheel Sensitivity to 33% [the reason you want to go down from the > default 50% to 33% is because at 50% the wheel is too sensitive to tiny > wheel adjustments... which is not realistic. drive your car and notice how > far you have to turn your wheel... the MOMO have a large radius to turn, > it's a shame most people only move it 5 degrees to either side. this

setting > should allow more precise driving and overall smoothness as well - and you > can go down even lower if you wish, to say, 25% if you want to have even > more movement, but i suggest 33% for starters at least, get used to thatand > go more later if you like the effect] > > Steering Wheel Dead Zone - 2% [another long explanation would be neededand > I don't feel like telling, but in short this also helps oscillations and > twitchiness] > > Accelerator Sensitivity - 55% [strangely, this option is the exactopposite

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> of the Steering, INCREASING this option from the default 50% to 55% makes > the gas less sensitive to the immediate input, in other words, you have to > push down farther before the car gets more power. the default 50% is a > little touchy - when you barely touch the pedal the car can spin out. 55% > helps this from happening and overall gives a more natural and fine tune > approach] > > Accelerator Dead Zone - 2% [much the same reasoning as above, this helps > from keeping your car getting to much gas too fast] > > Brake Sensitivity - 55% [exact same reasons as accelerator, increasing

this > to 55% helps your brakes from locking up to fast. one word of note thoughis > that I have modified my brake pedal to include the squash ball instead of > the spring, so that may make a difference in your setup. just note that > increasing this gives less immediate braking and can help if your tiresare > locking up too easily under braking] > > Brake Dead Zone - 2% [same reasons as all the others dead zones] > > Now, in Nascar 2003, enable the Force Feedback option under the Controlstab > and you should run this setting in between 35-65 (50 being most common > setting) depending on the track and more importantly, on your setup forthat > track. I know this is a pain to have to do at each individual track, but > depending on your setup you will need to adjust the strength of the forces > in game between each track change. > > Just start out from 50 and work from there. the key to adjusting strengthis > this... if the wheel has a "notchy" feel, lower the setting till it JUST > goes away, if it doesn't have a notchy feel, then raise it till you feelthe > notchyness and then lower it till it just goes away again. In essencegiving

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> you the most forces while remaining smooth. > > Leave Damping completely off in game... but *IF* and only if you are > oscillating exiting a corner on the straight, then you can slightly and > slowly increase it in game till you stop oscillating, but I doubt many of > you will have oscillation problems because the settings we set up earlier > should rid you of any. This is the only good thing Damping is good for, so > try not to use it unless you have to because it hurts your performance > elsewhere. and again, NEVER EVER EVER use the Damping setting in windows, > the one found in the control panel... and only use the in-game damping if > you absolutely must (as this can mask the real forces and it also

increases

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> notchiness by a factor of 3 fold). > > Leave latency off in game (0%). It only provides fake and incorrect forces > at usually the wrong time anyways and can definitely get in the way of > things and effect the overall impressions of the wheel with the rest of > these settings described here. if you honestly feel like forces are > literally coming too late (which I find very hard to believe) and you feel > like you absolutely have to add to this setting, go ahead and increase

it...

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> with 25 being your absolute max (15 the preferred max) and 0% being the > optimal. > > > "Bamadano" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Hey Mitch...I'd like to tale a look at that file. > > Dan > >

Thanks Mitch, Won't be able to give it a try for a while...my hard drive is biting the dust. On boot I get the message "BACK UP YOUR HD NOW! A FAILURE MAY BE IMMINENT" Oh well....ya'll have fun at the track. Dan

That's why it took you so long to break the 9 min barrier at the nurbring <grin> My advise: Try FF, but don't get frustrated too much. For a non-FF racer a FF-wheel is most irritating at first. That changes after few thousand laps... Cya JensSchumi On 09 May 2003 12:52:19 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>>Actually, I abhor force feedback and find that it just confuses me >>most of the time when the sim does a pretty good job of relaying >>information via visual/audio cues. >> > >?! >I don't have FF. I've lost track of how many times the car has gotten away >from me, and I have NO idea why... >I wish I could borrow a FF wheel to see if it made a difference. > >Eldred

--------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://jensschumi.bravepages.com/ GPLRank: -14.82 Monsters of GPL: sub 95

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (JS) writes:

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>That's why it took you so long to break the 9 min barrier at the nurbring ><grin> > >My advise: Try FF, but don't get frustrated too much. >For a non-FF racer a FF-wheel is most irritating at first. >That changes after few thousand laps... > >Cya >JensSchumi > >On 09 May 2003 12:52:19 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >>>Actually, I abhor force feedback and find that it just confuses me >>>most of the time when the sim does a pretty good job of relaying >>>information via visual/audio cues. >>> >> >>?! >>I don't have FF. I've lost track of how many times the car has gotten away >>from me, and I have NO idea why... >>I wish I could borrow a FF wheel to see if it made a difference. >>

No, it took me so long to break the 9:00 barrier at the Ring because I suck as a driver... :-) As far as the feel of FF, that sounds like a no-win situation. I'm not going to just BUY one because I'm not sure it will help. But borrowing one won't help because I wouldn't be able to use it long enough to get USED to it... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.950 MonsterRank: +305.145 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.