RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

Hey all, I have been rolling around Daytona trying to work out the kinks in setting up the new Saitek wheel. I am getting a pretty good feel now, finally figured out how to get rid of a pretty ugly deadzone at topcenter. Seems the center spring setting for non ff games had to be completely disabled. Started out with the settings posted for the Logitech MOMO and worked from there. So here is the deal. I am working in traffic pretty well, much more stable now and am able to hold a line in traffic pretty well. I am driving with the fast setup and am having real trouble staying in line on the bottom. The car wants to wash up really bad, I have used mild braking to help turn the car but the car really floats and I end up all over the place. The AI have been dealing with this pretty well and has only resulted in some minor bumping going on with a few actuall wrecks happening becuase my car suddenly slides up a groove. Can anyone give me some driving tips that may help this or should I still be working with the wheel setup to try and correct it?? -- McWhom -----------------------------------------------------------------

"mcwhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hey all, > I have been rolling around Daytona trying to work out the kinks in > setting up the new Saitek wheel. I am getting a pretty good feel now, > finally figured out how to get rid of a pretty ugly deadzone at topcenter. > Seems the center spring setting for non ff games had to be completely > disabled. Started out with the settings posted for the Logitech MOMO and > worked from there. > So here is the deal. I am working in traffic pretty well, much more > stable now and am able to hold a line in traffic pretty well. I am

driving > with the fast setup and am having real trouble staying in line on the > bottom. The car wants to wash up really bad, I have used mild braking to > help turn the car but the car really floats and I end up all over theplace. > The AI have been dealing with this pretty well and has only resulted insome

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> minor bumping going on with a few actuall wrecks happening becuase my car > suddenly slides up a groove. > Can anyone give me some driving tips that may help this or should I > still be working with the wheel setup to try and correct it?? > > > -- > McWhom > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > >

Try setting the linearity to around 80%. That smoothed things out for me. Tim

"mcwhom" said: > Seems the center spring setting for non ff games had to be completely > disabled. Sean, Just to be on the safe side...... You are aware of that NR2003 do support force feedback - yes? As for settings: Is this the same Saitek wheel that got the Micro$oft internals? If so, try this: 1 - Set pedals to split axis. (to be found in Windows Joystick panel / Saitek control panel) 2 - Get more linear steering - about 80-90% should do... (I run 98% myself) 3 - Set FFB setting to medium in Windows Joystick panel / Saitek control panel 4 - Set spring return to "low" in Windows Joystick panel / Saitek control panel 5 - Set FFB in NR2003 to around 40-50% 6 - Steering and throttle sensitivety in NR2003 advanced joystick options should also be set to "high"/ "max" (i.e whatever gives the best "feel") Good luck! -- ed_

The fast setup for Daytona is perhaps the worst setup I've ever run at a SS. That setup has a TERRIBLE push built into it. If you want a good setup for Daytona, go to the forum and download Tim's Daytona Setup. Now all he has to do is make one for Talledega :) Larry "mcwhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hey all, > I have been rolling around Daytona trying to work out the kinks in > setting up the new Saitek wheel. I am getting a pretty good feel now, > finally figured out how to get rid of a pretty ugly deadzone at topcenter. > Seems the center spring setting for non ff games had to be completely > disabled. Started out with the settings posted for the Logitech MOMO and > worked from there. > So here is the deal. I am working in traffic pretty well, much more > stable now and am able to hold a line in traffic pretty well. I am

driving > with the fast setup and am having real trouble staying in line on the > bottom. The car wants to wash up really bad, I have used mild braking to > help turn the car but the car really floats and I end up all over theplace. > The AI have been dealing with this pretty well and has only resulted insome

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> minor bumping going on with a few actuall wrecks happening becuase my car > suddenly slides up a groove. > Can anyone give me some driving tips that may help this or should I > still be working with the wheel setup to try and correct it?? > > > -- > McWhom > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > >

I found a lot of tim's setups, but none for daytona?? I was as far back as July 2002 looking before I realized it. -- McWhom ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:DTPxa.30060$[email hidden]... : The fast setup for Daytona is perhaps the worst setup I've ever run at a SS. : : That setup has a TERRIBLE push built into it. : : If you want a good setup for Daytona, go to the forum and download Tim's : Daytona Setup. : : Now all he has to do is make one for Talledega :) : : Larry : : "mcwhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message : news:[email hidden]... : > Hey all, : > I have been rolling around Daytona trying to work out the kinks in : > setting up the new Saitek wheel. I am getting a pretty good feel now, : > finally figured out how to get rid of a pretty ugly deadzone at topcenter. : > Seems the center spring setting for non ff games had to be completely : > disabled. Started out with the settings posted for the Logitech MOMO and : > worked from there. : > So here is the deal. I am working in traffic pretty well, much more : > stable now and am able to hold a line in traffic pretty well. I am : driving : > with the fast setup and am having real trouble staying in line on the : > bottom. The car wants to wash up really bad, I have used mild braking to : > help turn the car but the car really floats and I end up all over the : place. : > The AI have been dealing with this pretty well and has only resulted in : some : > minor bumping going on with a few actuall wrecks happening becuase my car : > suddenly slides up a groove. : > Can anyone give me some driving tips that may help this or should I : > still be working with the wheel setup to try and correct it?? : > : > : > -- : > McWhom : > ----------------------------------------------------------------- : > : > : > : :

"mcwhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I found a lot of tim's setups, but none for daytona?? I was as far backas

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> July 2002 looking before I realized it. > > -- > McWhom > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:DTPxa.30060$[email hidden]... > : The fast setup for Daytona is perhaps the worst setup I've ever run at a > SS. > : > : That setup has a TERRIBLE push built into it. > : > : If you want a good setup for Daytona, go to the forum and download Tim's > : Daytona Setup. > : > : Now all he has to do is make one for Talledega :) > : > : Larry > : > : "mcwhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > : news:[email hidden]... > : > Hey all, > : > I have been rolling around Daytona trying to work out the kinks

in

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> : > setting up the new Saitek wheel. I am getting a pretty good feel now, > : > finally figured out how to get rid of a pretty ugly deadzone at > topcenter. > : > Seems the center spring setting for non ff games had to be completely > : > disabled. Started out with the settings posted for the Logitech MOMO > and > : > worked from there. > : > So here is the deal. I am working in traffic pretty well, much > more > : > stable now and am able to hold a line in traffic pretty well. I am > : driving > : > with the fast setup and am having real trouble staying in line on the > : > bottom. The car wants to wash up really bad, I have used mild braking > to > : > help turn the car but the car really floats and I end up all over the > : place. > : > The AI have been dealing with this pretty well and has only resulted

in > : some > : > minor bumping going on with a few actuall wrecks happening becuase my > car > : > suddenly slides up a groove. > : > Can anyone give me some driving tips that may help this or shouldI

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> : > still be working with the wheel setup to try and correct it?? > : > > : > > : > -- > : > McWhom > : > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > : >

www.oteracing.com Tim

I've stopped racing until some patch comes out. If it never does, well ... :( I thought I had posted that little bit of news but maybe I didn't. Anyway, I upload the Daytona setup here http://forum.racesimcentral.com/t.php?s=&threadid=80979 if anyone still wants it. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "mcwhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I found a lot of tim's setups, but none for daytona?? I was as far back as > July 2002 looking before I realized it. > > -- > McWhom > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:DTPxa.30060$[email hidden]... > : The fast setup for Daytona is perhaps the worst setup I've ever run at a > SS. > : > : That setup has a TERRIBLE push built into it. > : > : If you want a good setup for Daytona, go to the forum and download Tim's > : Daytona Setup. > : > : Now all he has to do is make one for Talledega :) > : > : Larry > : > : "mcwhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > : news:[email hidden]... > : > Hey all, > : > I have been rolling around Daytona trying to work out the kinks in > : > setting up the new Saitek wheel. I am getting a pretty good feel now, > : > finally figured out how to get rid of a pretty ugly deadzone at > topcenter. > : > Seems the center spring setting for non ff games had to be completely > : > disabled. Started out with the settings posted for the Logitech MOMO > and > : > worked from there. > : > So here is the deal. I am working in traffic pretty well, much > more > : > stable now and am able to hold a line in traffic pretty well. I am > : driving > : > with the fast setup and am having real trouble staying in line on the > : > bottom. The car wants to wash up really bad, I have used mild braking > to > : > help turn the car but the car really floats and I end up all over the > : place. > : > The AI have been dealing with this pretty well and has only resulted in > : some > : > minor bumping going on with a few actuall wrecks happening becuase my > car > : > suddenly slides up a groove. > : > Can anyone give me some driving tips that may help this or should I > : > still be working with the wheel setup to try and correct it?? > : > > : > > : > -- > : > McWhom > : > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > : > > : > > : > > : > : > >

"Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CwPya.43793$[email hidden]... : I've stopped racing until some patch comes out. If it never does, well ... :( : I thought I had posted that little bit of news but maybe I didn't. : : Anyway, I upload the Daytona setup here http://forum.racesimcentral.com/t.php?s=&threadid=80979 if anyone still wants it. : : -- : Tim White : www.intracmotorsports.com : : Thanks Tim -- McWhom -----------------------------------------------------------------

In article <CwPya.43793$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > I've stopped racing until some patch comes out. If it never does, well ... :( > I thought I had posted that little bit of news but maybe I didn't. > > Anyway, I upload the Daytona setup here http://forum.racesimcentral.com/t.php?s=&threadid=80979 if anyone still wants it. > What are you looking for in terms of fixes? What if those items haven't been fixed?

First, and I sure hope they keep this in perspective, is anything they do change does not screw up or otherwise open a hole for any other potential mind numbing defects in the software. I suspect that if we are fortunate enough to see a patch there will most likely not be another one. In all previous versions, driving aids (clutch not included) did not make one faster. If they either .. Change that, Allow the server to know who has what on so that leagues may individually decide what to do with the information (but do show it in an export of the race results), or Allow an option for the server to control what aids can be used ... I would be satisfied. In the past I have used some of the aids and they probably helped me by treating them as shortcuts to not having to practice much. But I never really thought they made me as fast as the best online. I don't call using them cheating, far from it. I just feel it should be pretty obvious to Papyrus that making fast drivers faster was not their intention. If you look at the help options, all of them say what they always said; something like "Using them well help you but a more experienced driver will find more speed without them". I am guessing that what happened is when they changed things like tire grip settings in an effort to add more realism to tire wear, they probably did not see the full effects with all the options they have in the sim. Fair enough, but on that assumption, I would hope it would be sensible for them to 'clean it up'. I would also like for them to clean up the Fast setups, making them more even from track to track. While several papy guys may have stated they think the setups are fine, they can't argue the fact that this is really the first version they have put out where the Fast setups are so undriveable for so many. Every fixed setup league depends on that consistency and, try as some might, it's nearly impossible for the community to adopt another standard set other than the Fast setup. Considering Papyrus has gone out of its way to dummy down the difficulty factor for maximum playability, I would think they'd be very concerned about the state of the default Fast setups in the eyes of the general community, rather than those of their own. The damage model can always be improved, but right now it's the best it has ever been. It still suffers for a lot of people, but it is equal to everyone who races. So you can almost say it's fair. I know it's cool to see cars flipping. But ever since they added that feature it has not been realistic at all. Cars skyrocketing at a short track is more laughable than not. Get rid of it. I don't even consider this a 'wish list' thing since it has no realism whatsoever and most likely never worked the way they had intended. They really need to clean up, once and for all, the issues of random breakdowns. Make it clear what it is and when it happens versus something the driver initiated on his own. The decent and chaos the confusion causes is simply not worth the feature imo. I'd be happy if it was removed from the software altogether but for God's sake please settle the issue, finally. Right now, I feel the cheat detection may be about as good as it has ever been. I can be quite wrong about that, but now we have two issues to deal with; Cheating AND driving aids. It's like we finally get used to racing with guys who may cheat, and some honorable attempt has been made to deal with it, and now we have to live with driving aids? unuh. The only 'wish list' thing I would want is to be able to see the brake and gas usage while racing, so I could tell if I was actually brake riding with my foot resting on the brake. To see everyone's gas and braking in the replays would be great as well. The only thing that is a must for me is to retro the true usage of driving aids. They don't do that and I probably won't be back. How I know this for certain is I have always been the guy who was off the gas in a turn before anyone else. Ever since I started, including racing real simulators like SMS, people were always 'surprised' to see how smooth I was with a wheel and pedal. I never thought this was some special skill, and it was never on purpose or planned on my part. It just so happened that's how I drove a car. When N2003 came out, and everyone was new at it, it turned out to fit my almost 8 year old driving habits to a tee. The very first races I ran no one could keep up with me on tire wear. Not in any of the leagues I was in. Except for a short stint in N4, I haven't worked on open setups for almost 3 years and after all that time, here I found myself once again excited about open setups. But within just a few short weeks those same guys were beating me. I didn't change a thing. But others, not everyone mind you, suddenly found the driving aids. So for me, it was like waking up to the same old song. Here, I finally had a sim that rewarded really true tire management, and that was just about the closest I ever thought I would come to real life racing. I wanted so badly to test the one natural skill I felt I had brought to sim racing, while learning any others, with the best out there and now it is all but bogus for any real accomplishment or satisfaction of effort or time spent. So cleaning up driving aids is a must for me personally. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > What are you looking for in terms of fixes? > > What if those items haven't been fixed? > >

Well, the driving aids are vital for fixed setup leagues, because as we all know, no two people drive a given setup the same way. I think it's too late to make any suggestions, but I *can* have opinions: 1) Disable driving aids (except auto-clutch) for races that allow open setups. I don't see the driving aids as being a problem when used in conjunction with fixed setups. 2) Disable driving aids (except auto-clutch) for races that are set to "hardcore" mode. 3) I agree with the flipping cars thing, it happens way too easily. 4) Random breakdowns happens way too often. I am sure they can address this by changing a couple of parameters. 5) I don't think you should stop racing in rascar over this stuff. :) In article <C5_ya.74527$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> First, and I sure hope they keep this in perspective, is anything they do change does not screw up or otherwise open a hole for > any other potential mind numbing defects in the software. I suspect that if we are fortunate enough to see a patch there will most > likely not be another one. > > In all previous versions, driving aids (clutch not included) did not make one faster. If they either .. Change that, Allow the > server to know who has what on so that leagues may individually decide what to do with the information (but do show it in an export > of the race results), or Allow an option for the server to control what aids can be used ... I would be satisfied. > > In the past I have used some of the aids and they probably helped me by treating them as shortcuts to not having to practice > much. But I never really thought they made me as fast as the best online. I don't call using them cheating, far from it. I just > feel it should be pretty obvious to Papyrus that making fast drivers faster was not their intention. If you look at the help > options, all of them say what they always said; something like "Using them well help you but a more experienced driver will find > more speed without them". I am guessing that what happened is when they changed things like tire grip settings in an effort to add > more realism to tire wear, they probably did not see the full effects with all the options they have in the sim. Fair enough, but > on that assumption, I would hope it would be sensible for them to 'clean it up'. > > I would also like for them to clean up the Fast setups, making them more even from track to track. While several papy guys may > have stated they think the setups are fine, they can't argue the fact that this is really the first version they have put out where > the Fast setups are so undriveable for so many. Every fixed setup league depends on that consistency and, try as some might, it's > nearly impossible for the community to adopt another standard set other than the Fast setup. Considering Papyrus has gone out of > its way to dummy down the difficulty factor for maximum playability, I would think they'd be very concerned about the state of the > default Fast setups in the eyes of the general community, rather than those of their own. > > The damage model can always be improved, but right now it's the best it has ever been. It still suffers for a lot of people, > but it is equal to everyone who races. So you can almost say it's fair. > > I know it's cool to see cars flipping. But ever since they added that feature it has not been realistic at all. Cars > skyrocketing at a short track is more laughable than not. Get rid of it. I don't even consider this a 'wish list' thing since it > has no realism whatsoever and most likely never worked the way they had intended. > > They really need to clean up, once and for all, the issues of random breakdowns. Make it clear what it is and when it happens > versus something the driver initiated on his own. The decent and chaos the confusion causes is simply not worth the feature imo. > I'd be happy if it was removed from the software altogether but for God's sake please settle the issue, finally. > > Right now, I feel the cheat detection may be about as good as it has ever been. I can be quite wrong about that, but now we > have two issues to deal with; Cheating AND driving aids. It's like we finally get used to racing with guys who may cheat, and some > honorable attempt has been made to deal with it, and now we have to live with driving aids? unuh. > > The only 'wish list' thing I would want is to be able to see the brake and gas usage while racing, so I could tell if I was > actually brake riding with my foot resting on the brake. To see everyone's gas and braking in the replays would be great as well. > > The only thing that is a must for me is to retro the true usage of driving aids. They don't do that and I probably won't be > back. > > How I know this for certain is I have always been the guy who was off the gas in a turn before anyone else. Ever since I > started, including racing real simulators like SMS, people were always 'surprised' to see how smooth I was with a wheel and pedal. > I never thought this was some special skill, and it was never on purpose or planned on my part. It just so happened that's how I > drove a car. > > When N2003 came out, and everyone was new at it, it turned out to fit my almost 8 year old driving habits to a tee. The very > first races I ran no one could keep up with me on tire wear. Not in any of the leagues I was in. Except for a short stint in N4, I > haven't worked on open setups for almost 3 years and after all that time, here I found myself once again excited about open setups. > > But within just a few short weeks those same guys were beating me. I didn't change a thing. But others, not everyone mind you, > suddenly found the driving aids. So for me, it was like waking up to the same old song. Here, I finally had a sim that rewarded > really true tire management, and that was just about the closest I ever thought I would come to real life racing. I wanted so badly > to test the one natural skill I felt I had brought to sim racing, while learning any others, with the best out there and now it is > all but bogus for any real accomplishment or satisfaction of effort or time spent. > > So cleaning up driving aids is a must for me personally. > > -- > Tim White > www.intracmotorsports.com > > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > What are you looking for in terms of fixes? > > > > What if those items haven't been fixed? > > > > > > >

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... <snip> : : In article <C5_ya.74527$[email hidden]>, : [email hidden] says... <snip> This all makes me curious. I do not use driving aids, though I am probably new enough to this that they would help me, I do not do this for the realism aspect and just assumed that most/all league drivers would not. When I had my sidewinder ff stick hooked up they were necessary but not with a wheel. Am I wrong? Should I be using the driving aids to make a better driving experience for my opponents? Assuming that the aids would help me stay in line, yada, yada....... -- McWhom -----------------------------------------------------------------

"mcwhom" wrote... > This all makes me curious. I do not use driving aids, though > I am probably new enough to this that they would help me, I > do not do this for the realism aspect and just assumed that > most/all league drivers would not. Exactly, this is why I don't view this driving aids thing as an issue. When I'm driving the thought of whether someone else uses them or not doesn't even enter my mind. > When I had my sidewinder ff stick hooked up they were > necessary but not with a wheel. Am I wrong? Should I be > using the driving aids to make a better driving experience > for my opponents? Assuming that the aids would help me > stay in line, yada, yada....... I'd advise against it as you might pick up some bad driving habits using them, which could prove a true PITA to unlearn once you decide to turn driving aids off. Jan. =---

"John Simmons" said: ... > 1) Disable driving aids (except auto-clutch) for races that allow > open setups. I don't see the driving aids as being a problem when > used in conjunction with fixed setups. > > 2) Disable driving aids (except auto-clutch) for races that are set > to "hardcore" mode. I would like the host-server be either allow or ban usage of any given driving aid - regardsless of what type of setup is used. I would also like for us to "ban" all aids - bar clutch - during RASCAR races. I might be talked into allowing racing line - but thats were I'm drawing the line. > 5) I don't think you should stop racing in rascar over this stuff. :) Ditto. -- ed_

On Thu, 22 May 2003 16:24:00 +0200, "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >I would also like for us to "ban" all aids - bar clutch - during RASCAR >races. I might be talked into allowing racing line - but thats were I'm >drawing the line. > I agree. If driving aids make you faster than we should not use them and hopefully papy will come up with a fix to optionally ban them. I have never used driving aids (I had them on for about 4 min in N4 and promptly turned them off) and up until N2003 it was my understanding that they significantly slowed you down. If that was the case I would not have problem with them but if they make guys that are all ready fast even faster.... pretty close to cheating. I have even heard that there are setups out there specifically designed for using driving aids that make you very unrealistically fast.... need to get it fixed. Actually I drive in hard core mode at all times and I would not have a problem if RASCAR forced this, but I also understand that RASCAR incorporates a lot of different skill levels... Brian Oster

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > <snip> > : > : In article <C5_ya.74527$[email hidden]>, > : [email hidden] says... > <snip> > > This all makes me curious. I do not use driving aids, though I am probably > new enough to this that they would help me, I do not do this for the realism > aspect and just assumed that most/all league drivers would not. When I had > my sidewinder ff stick hooked up they were necessary but not with a wheel. > Am I wrong? Should I be using the driving aids to make a better driving > experience for my opponents? Assuming that the aids would help me stay in > line, yada, yada....... >

Sometimes, the <fast> setup is simply undrivable for some people, so it's perfectly fine to fine tune the setup by any means possible (within the constraints of the game). I used throttle latency at Bristol, and stability control at North Carolina, but other than that, I don't use driving aids.

In article <[email hidden]>, bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net says...

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> On Thu, 22 May 2003 16:24:00 +0200, "Ed Solheim" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >I would also like for us to "ban" all aids - bar clutch - during RASCAR > >races. I might be talked into allowing racing line - but thats were I'm > >drawing the line. > > > > I agree. If driving aids make you faster than we should not use them > and hopefully papy will come up with a fix to optionally ban them. I > have never used driving aids (I had them on for about 4 min in N4 and > promptly turned them off) and up until N2003 it was my understanding > that they significantly slowed you down. If that was the case I would > not have problem with them but if they make guys that are all ready > fast even faster.... pretty close to cheating. I have even heard that > there are setups out there specifically designed for using driving > aids that make you very unrealistically fast.... need to get it fixed. > > Actually I drive in hard core mode at all times and I would not have a > problem if RASCAR forced this, but I also understand that RASCAR > incorporates a lot of different skill levels... >

Banning the auto-clutch aid is not acceptable, especially for road courses. I think the whole issue with the use of aids is that people make unrealistic setups and then turn on driving aids which makes them faster. For RASCAR (and other fixed setup leagues), that is NOT an issue. The driving aids won't keep you from doing stupid shit, but they can help someone who is at odds with a given fixed setup come to grips with that setup. We all know that everyone drives differently from everyone else, and a setp that seems loose to some will feel just right to others, or even tight to some people. "Banning" the use of driving aids is just stupid for that very reason. For fixed setup and hardcore races, driving aids (except clutch) should be turned off. If not in hardcore mode, they should be individually toggleable by the server admin. Even if they were currently toggleable, I would not race in RASCAR if they were forced off, simply because we race with fixed setups. IMHO, if someone wants to use driving aids, that's their business, but I make an honest effort to become accustomed enough with the fast setup that I don't need them. Of course, all of this is pretty much moot since we don't know what Papy's going to do, and we really should wait for the patch before we start bitching and moaning. PS. I think that bigger issues are a) the too-freqent random damage, and b) the velcro walls.

"John Simmons" wrote: > > Even if they were currently toggleable, I would not race in RASCAR if > they were forced off, simply because we race with fixed setups. But thats is *exactly* why we should be able to police these John! The fixed Papy setups are so extremely bad at some tracks that turning some of these aids on is virtually like cheating -compared to running without them.. As for roadies... funny thing you mention this about auto-clutch.. I got a set of Act-labs pedals so I've turned the auto-clutch off... I still dont use the clutch much on road-courses - and I've still to loose a gear in 2003 (I think).. I basicly only use the clutch when getting out of the pits or when trying to save the car from a spin etc.. > PS. I think that bigger issues are a) the too-freqent random damage, andb) the velcro walls. Funny you mention that, as velcro wall fix have always been on the top of my list... but that all changed when I got aware of the driving-aids problem. As for random damage; I've yet to experience that, so I cannot comment on much on the issue. My current ranking: driving aids-fix, velcro walls, race-list filtering. -- ed_

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > "Banning" the use of driving aids is just stupid for that very > reason. For fixed setup and hardcore races, driving aids (except I mis-spoke - I meant "open setups and hardcore races"...

In article <3ecdd19a$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > "John Simmons" wrote: > > > > Even if they were currently toggleable, I would not race in RASCAR if > > they were forced off, simply because we race with fixed setups. > > But thats is *exactly* why we should be able to police these John! > > The fixed Papy setups are so extremely bad at some tracks that turning some > of these aids on is virtually like cheating -compared to running without > them..

I don't see it as cheating.

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> As for roadies... funny thing you mention this about auto-clutch.. I got a > set of Act-labs pedals so I've turned the auto-clutch off... I still dont > use the clutch much on road-courses - and I've still to loose a gear in 2003 > (I think).. > I basicly only use the clutch when getting out of the pits or when trying to > save the car from a spin etc.. >

I don't have a clutch pedal. If I don't use auto clutch, the engine revs down wierd, and affects the car's ability to turn. I'm not saying auto clutch completely eliminates that behavior, but it's a lot less likely to happen with autoclutch turned on.

I don't think autoclutch use is the same as traction control and antilock brakes. Even steering help can improve your times at superspeedways. I would have never thought it until someone explained why some guys are so fast at certain tracks and I tried it. "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <3ecdd19a$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > > > "John Simmons" wrote: > > > > > > Even if they were currently toggleable, I would not race in RASCAR if > > > they were forced off, simply because we race with fixed setups. > > > > But thats is *exactly* why we should be able to police these John! > > > > The fixed Papy setups are so extremely bad at some tracks that turning

some

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> > of these aids on is virtually like cheating -compared to running without > > them.. > > I don't see it as cheating. > > > > As for roadies... funny thing you mention this about auto-clutch.. I

got a > > set of Act-labs pedals so I've turned the auto-clutch off... I stilldont > > use the clutch much on road-courses - and I've still to loose a gear in2003 > > (I think).. > > I basicly only use the clutch when getting out of the pits or whentrying to

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> > save the car from a spin etc.. > > > > I don't have a clutch pedal. If I don't use auto clutch, the engine > revs down wierd, and affects the car's ability to turn. I'm not > saying auto clutch completely eliminates that behavior, but it's a > lot less likely to happen with autoclutch turned on.

Well, in the end, I don't know how many of the RASCAR drivers use driving aids, and I really don't care. If it makes them more competitive, that's good. If using aids bumps them up to alien status, who gives a rat's ass? The racing is a lot more interesting when there's some competition anyway. I'm just here to race with an acceptable amount of realism, and if I feel the need, I'll turn on the occasional driving aid - not with the expectation of gaining speed, but more to keep the car stable and not cause problems for others. Some of the purists that aren't as competitive in Rascar should consider using driving aids to bring up their performance (especially if they don't have a lot of time to practice), but if they like running in the back, that's fine with me too. It's certainly admirable to want to drive the sim without using aids, but the default fast setups simply do not allow it for some folks. One last item - while practicing for the upcoming race at Charlotte, I had stability control on, and I found I could bump the AI without being sent into the fence or spinning into the infield. I wonder if everyone used stability control, would our incident counts go down since the car behaves in a more realistic fashion? In article <Sqnza.4237$[email hidden]>, mgrandy2 @nycap.rr.com says... > I don't think autoclutch use is the same as traction control and antilock > brakes. Even steering help can improve your times at superspeedways. I would > have never thought it until someone explained why some guys are so fast at > certain tracks and I tried it. >

Roof riding with driving aids on?? May as well fire up the Playstation... "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Well, in the end, I don't know how many of the RASCAR drivers use > driving aids, and I really don't care. > > If it makes them more competitive, that's good. If using aids bumps > them up to alien status, who gives a rat's ass? The racing is a lot > more interesting when there's some competition anyway. > > I'm just here to race with an acceptable amount of realism, and if I > feel the need, I'll turn on the occasional driving aid - not with the > expectation of gaining speed, but more to keep the car stable and not > cause problems for others. Some of the purists that aren't as > competitive in Rascar should consider using driving aids to bring up > their performance (especially if they don't have a lot of time to > practice), but if they like running in the back, that's fine with me > too. > > It's certainly admirable to want to drive the sim without using aids, > but the default fast setups simply do not allow it for some folks. > > One last item - while practicing for the upcoming race at Charlotte, > I had stability control on, and I found I could bump the AI without > being sent into the fence or spinning into the infield. I wonder if > everyone used stability control, would our incident counts go down > since the car behaves in a more realistic fashion? > > > In article <Sqnza.4237$[email hidden]>, mgrandy2 > @nycap.rr.com says... > > I don't think autoclutch use is the same as traction control and

antilock > > brakes. Even steering help can improve your times at superspeedways. Iwould > > have never thought it until someone explained why some guys are so fastat > > certain tracks and I tried it. > > >

Well, that's where I got it from :) Larry "mcwhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I found a lot of tim's setups, but none for daytona?? I was as far backas

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> July 2002 looking before I realized it. > > -- > McWhom > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:DTPxa.30060$[email hidden]... > : The fast setup for Daytona is perhaps the worst setup I've ever run at a > SS. > : > : That setup has a TERRIBLE push built into it. > : > : If you want a good setup for Daytona, go to the forum and download Tim's > : Daytona Setup. > : > : Now all he has to do is make one for Talledega :) > : > : Larry > : > : "mcwhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > : news:[email hidden]... > : > Hey all, > : > I have been rolling around Daytona trying to work out the kinks

in

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> : > setting up the new Saitek wheel. I am getting a pretty good feel now, > : > finally figured out how to get rid of a pretty ugly deadzone at > topcenter. > : > Seems the center spring setting for non ff games had to be completely > : > disabled. Started out with the settings posted for the Logitech MOMO > and > : > worked from there. > : > So here is the deal. I am working in traffic pretty well, much > more > : > stable now and am able to hold a line in traffic pretty well. I am > : driving > : > with the fast setup and am having real trouble staying in line on the > : > bottom. The car wants to wash up really bad, I have used mild braking > to > : > help turn the car but the car really floats and I end up all over the > : place. > : > The AI have been dealing with this pretty well and has only resulted

in > : some > : > minor bumping going on with a few actuall wrecks happening becuase my > car > : > suddenly slides up a groove. > : > Can anyone give me some driving tips that may help this or shouldI

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> : > still be working with the wheel setup to try and correct it?? > : > > : > > : > -- > : > McWhom > : > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > : > > : > > : > > : > : > >

I know this much. Automatic Shifting (which I use only at road courses sometimes because of the heavy-handed random damage) does NOT improve your times. You could go grab a cup of coffee between shifts there's so much lag in there. Larry "Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Thu, 22 May 2003 16:24:00 +0200, "Ed Solheim" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >I would also like for us to "ban" all aids - bar clutch - during RASCAR > >races. I might be talked into allowing racing line - but thats were I'm > >drawing the line. > > > > I agree. If driving aids make you faster than we should not use them > and hopefully papy will come up with a fix to optionally ban them. I > have never used driving aids (I had them on for about 4 min in N4 and > promptly turned them off) and up until N2003 it was my understanding > that they significantly slowed you down. If that was the case I would > not have problem with them but if they make guys that are all ready > fast even faster.... pretty close to cheating. I have even heard that > there are setups out there specifically designed for using driving > aids that make you very unrealistically fast.... need to get it fixed. > > Actually I drive in hard core mode at all times and I would not have a > problem if RASCAR forced this, but I also understand that RASCAR > incorporates a lot of different skill levels... > > Brian Oster > > > > >

Ya damn skippy! Larry "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, > bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net says... > PS. I think that bigger issues are a) the too-freqent random damage, > and b) the velcro walls. >

On Thu, 22 May 2003 21:36:00 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote: > >Banning the auto-clutch aid is not acceptable, especially for road >courses. > Well, auto-clutch should go without saying. I (along with probably everyone else) use that one. I don't care if people use them in RASCAR. However, in N4 and N2002 if you turned them on you were gonna be slower. It was like there was a trade-off... speed for stability by turning them on. It sounds like to me if someone like Tim were to use driving aids it wouldn't slow him down, might make him faster and may reduce tire wear. That IMO is a problem. > >PS. I think that bigger issues are a) the too-freqent random damage, >and b) the velcro walls. Don't have a huge problem with the velcro walls, there should be a substantial penelty for getting into the wall. The random damage needs to be fixed. They should have an option to turn it off for on-line races and they really need to adjust it. I mean, you hardly ever see someone lose a transmission in real WC, but it happens about every race on-line. What really ticks me off is when you jump in the car too start a race and you are missing gears... shouldn't my pit crew find that before they even roll me out onto the grid? Brian Oster

Ok, I'll give you auto-shifting. Could care less about that one. Brian Oster On Fri, 23 May 2003 18:05:57 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I know this much. Automatic Shifting (which I use only at road courses >sometimes because of the heavy-handed random damage) does NOT improve your >times. > >You could go grab a cup of coffee between shifts there's so much lag in >there. > >Larry >

I won't even turn them on to test how they effect the car. I have this fear that it would just f me up and I would not be able to go back to driving without them. Sorta like crack. Brian Oster On Fri, 23 May 2003 11:39:49 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote: >One last item - while practicing for the upcoming race at Charlotte, >I had stability control on, and I found I could bump the AI without >being sent into the fence or spinning into the infield. I wonder if >everyone used stability control, would our incident counts go down >since the car behaves in a more realistic fashion?