NASCAR 2003: Mt. Panorama.

I've downloaded - from The US Pits - this new circuit. Before even attempting to do anything with it, could someone please advise: Can this circuit be dropped straight into N2003 or is it one of those which requires the GPL/N2003 converter? Thanks folks, Bruce.

Incidentally, two weekends back I drove several laps around Mt. Panorama - NOT at racing speeds, I might add! It is a two-way, public road (albeit much wider and smoother than any others in Bathurst!) when not used for racing, with a 60KPH limit (that no-body takes any notice of!) I've only been to watch a meeting there once, and that was back in the 1960's, before the introduction of Caltex Chase down Con-rod Straight. I've watched every televised 500Mile/1000Km race held there, however. Two things which I had never noticed before, either as an on-site or TV spectator:- (1) From the Start/Finish line, the track slopes >UP< to Hell Corner! It does not run downhill and nor is it flat. (2) Entering Caltex Chase, as you exit that left-hand corner, the road also slopes upward to the RH corner and it doesn't start to fall away to Murray's until exiting that RH corner! Amazing what one learns simply by having an opportunity to drive a track. Bruce.

"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:3edc3ee9$[email hidden]:

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> I've downloaded - from The US Pits - this new circuit. > Before even attempting to do anything with it, could someone please > advise: Can this circuit be dropped straight into N2003 or is it one > of those which requires the GPL/N2003 converter? > > Thanks folks, > Bruce. > > >

Me again....It works right out of the box. Wonderful track, it may be based on the old GPL version, I'm not sure, but it has the newer corners like Murray's and Caltech Chase(is that right?) So it's a much more modern configuration. You don't even need to load another track for the proper lighting, that is correct as well. (one can only imagine what it would be like with a Castrol Commode or a Ford Pigeon----Whoops! I mean the Commodore and Falcon sorry.... :) ) I have found one very big safety problem. The armco that guards the outside of the pit straight, starts pretty close the the exit of the last turn. Don't ask me how I know this, but that armco can penetrate almost through the entire driver's area and reach the fuel cell. dave henrie

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding

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> > I've downloaded - from The US Pits - this new circuit. > > Before even attempting to do anything with it, could someone please > > advise: Can this circuit be dropped straight into N2003 or is it one > > of those which requires the GPL/N2003 converter? > Me again....It works right out of the box. Wonderful track, it may be > based on the old GPL version, I'm not sure, but it has the newer corners > like Murray's and Caltech Chase(is that right?) So it's a much more

modern

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> configuration. You don't even need to load another track for the proper > lighting, that is correct as well. (one can only imagine what it would be > like with a Castrol Commode or a Ford Pigeon----Whoops! I mean the > Commodore and Falcon sorry.... :) ) > I have found one very big safety problem. The armco that guards the > outside of the pit straight, starts pretty close the the exit of the last > turn. Don't ask me how I know this, but that armco can penetrate almost > through the entire driver's area and reach the fuel cell. > dave henrie >

Tried it too - and it's a great start towards a fullblown Aussie V8 patch :)) I think the grip level is a bit weird, I did three laps Alesi-style and blew my RF under braking and messed up the HotLap of HotLaps! ;) Looks to me on telly like lots of those corners are off camber too (like the N2003 version), which means big trouble for the papy physics. I'll say it again; Mark Hales in Dale Jarrett's #88 T-bird up the Goodwood hillclimb a few years ago - on pace with the WRC cars! It didn't look big, spongy or sluggish too me. Quite the contrary infact. A small racecar (lower, shorter & wider than the same years BTCC Mondeo..), LOUD and fast! Oops. I'm digressing. Can't wait to see the development of this track! /Matt

Oh...that's good. Thanks for that, Dave. Murray's has always been there - that is the last corner before Pit Straight and is actually the entry/exit road onto the circuit, and becomes the "end of Con-Rod escape road" during race day. The centre of Bathurst is only 3 kilometres away down this road. Caltex (petroleum company here in Aus, related to Texaco in your part of the world) Chase is really the only change to the original shape of the circuit. Placed there for "safety reason" in the aftermath of the 1994 knee-jerk installation of chicanes all over the world. Thanks for the warning about the armco! :) Now I'll go and try it out. Bruce.

If you go here... http://www.netspeed.com.au/bhk/mgcc/snippets.htm in amongst the dozen pix are a couple taken at Mt. Panorama two weekends ago. Bruce.

This track is where? I've looked all over the site and can't find this track! Vintook "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3edc3ee9$[email hidden]... > I've downloaded - from The US Pits - this new circuit. > Before even attempting to do anything with it, could someone pleaseadvise: > Can this circuit be dropped straight into N2003 or is it one of thosewhich > requires the GPL/N2003 converter? > > Thanks folks, > Bruce. > >

http://www.theuspits.com/index.html if you cant see where to download Bathurst you need an eye test mate.. AD

Bruce Kennewell wrote: > > I've downloaded - from The US Pits - this new circuit. Aaaargh, no time to try it yet.....is any good ? :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Fair. It ought to appeal mightily to the Aussie V8 hooligans looking for a suitable venue. Seems kinda hemmed in for such an open setting, tho. If I had a wish list for a dozen N2003-enabled natural-terrain road circuits, it would have to include (in order of appeal): The full Monza, a la GPL's Milano - this has got to be the holy grail of road-racing Cup cars Solitude - for those of you who think the Esses @ Riverside are too easy Le Mans (or Bugatti) - picture the drafting battles! Great online battles, too! Bridgehampton - historically correct (plus, I'd kill to have this track finished for GPL) Suzuka - I'd love to see this in ANY Papy sim (w/o the chicane, please) Brands Hatch or Oulton Park - roller-coaster rides like Mosport...only wider Castle Combe, Snetterton or Goodwood (classic British tracks...in that order) Imola - my favorite Dave Noonan track Road Atlanta - my second-fav Noonan track Lime Rock MC (or L.R. avec chicane) - my fav Brent Adams tracks V.I.R. - if the Bridge is an American Zandy, this is a Yank Reims Reims (if I couldn't have V.I.R.) --Steve "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Bruce Kennewell wrote: > > > > I've downloaded - from The US Pits - this new circuit. > > Aaaargh, no time to try it yet.....is any good ? :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "goyl at nettx dot no" > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

Steve Smith wrote: > > Fair. It ought to appeal mightily to the Aussie V8 hooligans looking for a > suitable venue. Seems kinda hemmed in for such an open setting, tho. Then for some reason I suspect it will appeal to me :-) > If I had a wish list for a dozen N2003-enabled natural-terrain road > circuits, it would have to include (in order of appeal): > <snip> > > V.I.R. - if the Bridge is an American Zandy, this is a Yank Reims > Reims (if I couldn't have V.I.R.) Keep your eyes out for this one Steve, Jan had a track weekend there a while ago and is campaigning to get this track into N2003 somehow, and Jan often gets what he wants :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Goy Larsen

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> Keep your eyes out for this one Steve, Jan had a track weekend there a > while ago and is campaigning to get this track into N2003 somehow, and > Jan often gets what he wants :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy

THe F1 2k2 mods have a version of VIR...great track...the secondary pits don't work :( but maybe when the next mod base is released(Formula 1 Challenge) we'll get the ability to sort classes at different pits) Hellooo Spa! The VIR for the F1 2k2 mods has recently been updated to include a dip in the esses. This always caught my eye when watching the tv coverage and I was somewhat disappointed that the GPL version did not have this dip. However the new update is almost a sinkhole, you really bottom out there. Great fun in a smaller car. On the tube, VIR is a gorgeous looking circuit, it rivals Ste Jovite in Canada as one of the more picturesqe settings. That is my next 'project,' nagging the mod/track builders to get Jovie done for 2k2. In some area's the Papyrus based sims are lacking tracks being converted for Nascar, and in some area's the EA mods also don't have quite the coverage as GPL(although tracks like Bathurst and the Daytona Road Course are comming) All in all it's a good time to be a simmer. dave henrie

Hi Goy, Any (or all) of these tracks would delight me. Our friend Achim--who seems to have been "away from his desk" for these past coupla weeks--favors Cup cars crashing around Monte Carlo like the proverbial bull in a china shop. I prefer larger arenas, with room to swing a cat (which may be why I'm aka Toonces). Of all the wonderful tracks Dave Noonan's converters have given us, I like driving Zandvoort the best - it has a great rhythm (and the consequences of getting a wheel off aren't nearly as dire as in GPL). Likewise, Bridgehampton (where I saw the big ol' stockers run in the 1960s) might be even better. Riverside is my second fav, mainly because I saw Gurney hustle the Wood Brothers' Mercury around there when I was a kid, and I marvelled at the car control he had over that 427 cu. in. monster. I only drove there in iddy-biddy (as Dubya would say) Porsches, but even now the Esses raise the hackles on my neck. But oh, that interminable backstretch! I wish we had the "sports car" course (T6 to T7 to T7A, eliminating T8, and halving the back straight). Admittedly, Elkhart and Silverstone are "stab it and steer it," drag races between right-angled corners, but the Oesterreichring is a blast, infinitely better than the emasculated version now masquerading as the "A1" Ring. I bet Noonan's superb Imola and Road Atlanta would be equally fine. I'll never be good enough to master the other 'ring, Nurburg, and even Sears is too tricky for me. I like the old Glen better than the new one, and most of the street courses (except the relatively long-legged Surfers) are tank-slapping bores, altho Achim did get me to try Detroit (where I used to wreck with depressing regularity in IndyCar Racing II), and, lo, I liked it. It has a nice flow, even though it's kinda like a lateral Steeplechase. I haven't had this much fun in a driving game since "Mobil 1 Rally Championship." --Steve "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Steve Smith wrote: > > > > Fair. It ought to appeal mightily to the Aussie V8 hooligans lookingfor a

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> > suitable venue. Seems kinda hemmed in for such an open setting, tho. > > Then for some reason I suspect it will appeal to me :-) > > > If I had a wish list for a dozen N2003-enabled natural-terrain road > > circuits, it would have to include (in order of appeal): > > > <snip> > > > > V.I.R. - if the Bridge is an American Zandy, this is a Yank Reims > > Reims (if I couldn't have V.I.R.) > > Keep your eyes out for this one Steve, Jan had a track weekend there a > while ago and is campaigning to get this track into N2003 somehow, and > Jan often gets what he wants :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "goyl at nettx dot no" > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

If anyone is working on VIR for NR2003, *please* kindly let me know.... we don't need two (or more) versions of it, and I have been preparing to start on it. Also, if anyone is working on it, I would be happy to share the track info I have -- I was given a 4 foot by six foot map (!) of the track that was used for the GPL version, and I have been there a few times so I might be able to recall some details. If someone else does the full course, I would be interested in doing the North Course which I have driven and is a blast also. -Garth "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > V.I.R. - if the Bridge is an American Zandy, this is a Yank Reims > > Reims (if I couldn't have V.I.R.) > > Keep your eyes out for this one Steve, Jan had a track weekend there a > while ago and is campaigning to get this track into N2003 somehow, and > Jan often gets what he wants :-)

I must be brutally honest, Goy, and say that I don't find it nearly as appealing as the one created for GPL. Apart from a couple of innacuracies, which are minor and really have no detrimental effect on driving the circuit, there appears to be something wrong with the coefficient of friction; this circuit is VERY slippery. It also appears way too narrow in parts - off Skyline, down through The Dipper and into Forest Elbow in particular. I would really like to see a converted version of the GPL Mt. Panorama, as I prefer Con-rod Straight without the chicane. Bruce. "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Bruce Kennewell wrote: > > > > I've downloaded - from The US Pits - this new circuit. > > Aaaargh, no time to try it yet.....is any good ? :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "goyl at nettx dot no" > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

Not that anybody asked me, but I think Donington in a cup car would be fantastic. Enough straights for a little drafting, and a gut-check full throttle section through the first few turns. "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zLaDa.6080$[email hidden]... > Hi Goy, > > Any (or all) of these tracks would delight me. Our friend Achim--whoseems

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> to have been "away from his desk" for these past coupla weeks--favors Cup > cars crashing around Monte Carlo like the proverbial bull in a china shop. > I prefer larger arenas, with room to swing a cat (which may be why I'm aka > Toonces). > > Of all the wonderful tracks Dave Noonan's converters have given us, I like > driving Zandvoort the best - it has a great rhythm (and the consequences

of > getting a wheel off aren't nearly as dire as in GPL). Likewise, > Bridgehampton (where I saw the big ol' stockers run in the 1960s) might be > even better. > > Riverside is my second fav, mainly because I saw Gurney hustle the Wood > Brothers' Mercury around there when I was a kid, and I marvelled at thecar

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> control he had over that 427 cu. in. monster. I only drove there in > iddy-biddy (as Dubya would say) Porsches, but even now the Esses raise the > hackles on my neck. But oh, that interminable backstretch! I wish we had > the "sports car" course (T6 to T7 to T7A, eliminating T8, and halving the > back straight). > > Admittedly, Elkhart and Silverstone are "stab it and steer it," drag races > between right-angled corners, but the Oesterreichring is a blast,

infinitely > better than the emasculated version now masquerading as the "A1" Ring. I > bet Noonan's superb Imola and Road Atlanta would be equally fine. > > I'll never be good enough to master the other 'ring, Nurburg, and evenSears > is too tricky for me. I like the old Glen better than the new one, andmost > of the street courses (except the relatively long-legged Surfers) are > tank-slapping bores, altho Achim did get me to try Detroit (where I usedto > wreck with depressing regularity in IndyCar Racing II), and, lo, I likedit.

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> It has a nice flow, even though it's kinda like a lateral Steeplechase. > > I haven't had this much fun in a driving game since "Mobil 1 Rally > Championship." > > --Steve > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > Steve Smith wrote: > > > > > > Fair. It ought to appeal mightily to the Aussie V8 hooligans looking > for a > > > suitable venue. Seems kinda hemmed in for such an open setting, tho. > > > > Then for some reason I suspect it will appeal to me :-) > > > > > If I had a wish list for a dozen N2003-enabled natural-terrain road > > > circuits, it would have to include (in order of appeal): > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > V.I.R. - if the Bridge is an American Zandy, this is a Yank Reims > > > Reims (if I couldn't have V.I.R.) > > > > Keep your eyes out for this one Steve, Jan had a track weekend there a > > while ago and is campaigning to get this track into N2003 somehow, and > > Jan often gets what he wants :-) > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > (uncle) Goy > > "goyl at nettx dot no" > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > > --Groucho Marx-- > >

What is "V.I.R"? (Vegemite International Raceway? Vermont Interred Rasputin? Velocipedes Inserted Randomly? Voles Ignore Raccoons?..............what?!) Bruce "Garth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sQbDa.17163$[email hidden]... > If anyone is working on VIR for NR2003, ..............

Yeah I think sometimes we overdramatize the weight of the cup cars. Or maybe it's the Papy physics, or the default setups, I don't know. But at 3400 lbs. a cup car may be a bit heavy compared to other forms of race cars but they are within a few hundred pounds of production Vipers, Corvettes, and Porsches, cars which most people regard as having pretty good handling, and have a power to weight ratio that only the most exotic production cars can come close to. All things considered they should feel plenty fast and nimble in comparison to anything you can drive on the street. "Matt Knutsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3edc5157$[email hidden]... > > I'll say it again; Mark Hales in Dale Jarrett's #88 T-bird up the Goodwood > hillclimb a few years ago - on pace with the WRC cars! It didn't look big, > spongy or sluggish too me. Quite the contrary infact. A small racecar > (lower, shorter & wider than the same years BTCC Mondeo..), LOUD and fast! >

Bruce Kennewell wrote:

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> What is "V.I.R"? > (Vegemite International Raceway? Vermont Interred Rasputin? Velocipedes > Inserted Randomly? Voles Ignore Raccoons?..............what?!) > > Bruce > > "Garth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:sQbDa.17163$[email hidden]... > >>If anyone is working on VIR for NR2003, .............. > > >

http://www.virclub.com/

Thanks, Matthew. :) Bruce. "Matt Jessick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > http://www.virclub.com/ >

Nobody asked me either, but I'll jump in and vote for Blue Mountain; not a real track, of course, but if you haven't tried it in GPL yet, you're missing out on a great drive. Pretty simple layout and fairly easy to learn the basics of, but it has a nice rhythm and some serious high speed gut-checks. Think Masta with elevation changes! Takes a special blend of technique and hara-kiri commitment to really go quick on. Those stockers would probably be easier to keep on the ground, too... ;-) "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bbjmag$a20fn$[email hidden]...

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> Not that anybody asked me, but I think Donington in a cup car would be > fantastic. Enough straights for a little drafting, and a gut-check full > throttle section through the first few turns. > > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:zLaDa.6080$[email hidden]... > > Hi Goy, > > > > Any (or all) of these tracks would delight me. Our friend Achim--who > seems > > to have been "away from his desk" for these past coupla weeks--favors

Cup > > cars crashing around Monte Carlo like the proverbial bull in a chinashop. > > I prefer larger arenas, with room to swing a cat (which may be why I'maka > > Toonces). > > > > Of all the wonderful tracks Dave Noonan's converters have given us, Ilike > > driving Zandvoort the best - it has a great rhythm (and the consequences > of > > getting a wheel off aren't nearly as dire as in GPL). Likewise, > > Bridgehampton (where I saw the big ol' stockers run in the 1960s) mightbe

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> > even better. > > > > Riverside is my second fav, mainly because I saw Gurney hustle the Wood > > Brothers' Mercury around there when I was a kid, and I marvelled at the > car > > control he had over that 427 cu. in. monster. I only drove there in > > iddy-biddy (as Dubya would say) Porsches, but even now the Esses raise

the > > hackles on my neck. But oh, that interminable backstretch! I wish wehad > > the "sports car" course (T6 to T7 to T7A, eliminating T8, and halvingthe > > back straight). > > > > Admittedly, Elkhart and Silverstone are "stab it and steer it," dragraces > > between right-angled corners, but the Oesterreichring is a blast, > infinitely > > better than the emasculated version now masquerading as the "A1" Ring.I

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> > bet Noonan's superb Imola and Road Atlanta would be equally fine. > > > > I'll never be good enough to master the other 'ring, Nurburg, and even > Sears > > is too tricky for me. I like the old Glen better than the new one, and > most > > of the street courses (except the relatively long-legged Surfers) are > > tank-slapping bores, altho Achim did get me to try Detroit (where I used > to > > wreck with depressing regularity in IndyCar Racing II), and, lo, I liked > it. > > It has a nice flow, even though it's kinda like a lateral Steeplechase. > > > > I haven't had this much fun in a driving game since "Mobil 1 Rally > > Championship." > > > > --Steve > > > > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > Steve Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > Fair. It ought to appeal mightily to the Aussie V8 hooligans

looking > > for a > > > > suitable venue. Seems kinda hemmed in for such an open setting,tho.

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> > > > > > Then for some reason I suspect it will appeal to me :-) > > > > > > > If I had a wish list for a dozen N2003-enabled natural-terrain road > > > > circuits, it would have to include (in order of appeal): > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > V.I.R. - if the Bridge is an American Zandy, this is a Yank Reims > > > > Reims (if I couldn't have V.I.R.) > > > > > > Keep your eyes out for this one Steve, Jan had a track weekend there a > > > while ago and is campaigning to get this track into N2003 somehow, and > > > Jan often gets what he wants :-) > > > > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > > (uncle) Goy > > > "goyl at nettx dot no" > > > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > > > --Groucho Marx-- > > > > > >

Just had a go at this last night... The track look nice except for one thing.... a total lack of banking (camber) in the corners hence making the cars understeer like hell.. -- ed_

Yes, absolutely; one of the only two "fantasy" tracks in GPL I endorse w/o reservation (the other is Diamante). "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Nobody asked me either, but I'll jump in and vote for Blue Mountain; not a > real track, of course, but if you haven't tried it in GPL yet, you're > missing out on a great drive. Pretty simple layout and fairly easy tolearn

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> the basics of, but it has a nice rhythm and some serious high speed > gut-checks. Think Masta with elevation changes! > > Takes a special blend of technique and hara-kiri commitment to really go > quick on. Those stockers would probably be easier to keep on the ground, > too... ;-) > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:bbjmag$a20fn$[email hidden]... > > Not that anybody asked me, but I think Donington in a cup car would be > > fantastic. Enough straights for a little drafting, and a gut-check full > > throttle section through the first few turns. > > > > > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:zLaDa.6080$[email hidden]... > > > Hi Goy, > > > > > > Any (or all) of these tracks would delight me. Our friend Achim--who > > seems > > > to have been "away from his desk" for these past coupla weeks--favors > Cup > > > cars crashing around Monte Carlo like the proverbial bull in a china > shop. > > > I prefer larger arenas, with room to swing a cat (which may be why I'm > aka > > > Toonces). > > > > > > Of all the wonderful tracks Dave Noonan's converters have given us, I > like > > > driving Zandvoort the best - it has a great rhythm (and the

consequences > > of > > > getting a wheel off aren't nearly as dire as in GPL). Likewise, > > > Bridgehampton (where I saw the big ol' stockers run in the 1960s)might > be > > > even better. > > > > > > Riverside is my second fav, mainly because I saw Gurney hustle theWood > > > Brothers' Mercury around there when I was a kid, and I marvelled atthe

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> > car > > > control he had over that 427 cu. in. monster. I only drove there in > > > iddy-biddy (as Dubya would say) Porsches, but even now the Esses raise > the > > > hackles on my neck. But oh, that interminable backstretch! I wish we > had > > > the "sports car" course (T6 to T7 to T7A, eliminating T8, and halving > the > > > back straight). > > > > > > Admittedly, Elkhart and Silverstone are "stab it and steer it," drag > races > > > between right-angled corners, but the Oesterreichring is a blast, > > infinitely > > > better than the emasculated version now masquerading as the "A1" Ring. > I > > > bet Noonan's superb Imola and Road Atlanta would be equally fine. > > > > > > I'll never be good enough to master the other 'ring, Nurburg, and even > > Sears > > > is too tricky for me. I like the old Glen better than the new one,

and > > most > > > of the street courses (except the relatively long-legged Surfers) are > > > tank-slapping bores, altho Achim did get me to try Detroit (where Iused > > to > > > wreck with depressing regularity in IndyCar Racing II), and, lo, Iliked > > it. > > > It has a nice flow, even though it's kinda like a lateralSteeplechase.

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> > > > > > I haven't had this much fun in a driving game since "Mobil 1 Rally > > > Championship." > > > > > > --Steve > > > > > > > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Fair. It ought to appeal mightily to the Aussie V8 hooligans > looking > > > for a > > > > > suitable venue. Seems kinda hemmed in for such an open setting, > tho. > > > > > > > > Then for some reason I suspect it will appeal to me :-) > > > > > > > > > If I had a wish list for a dozen N2003-enabled natural-terrain

road

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> > > > > circuits, it would have to include (in order of appeal): > > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > > V.I.R. - if the Bridge is an American Zandy, this is a Yank Reims > > > > > Reims (if I couldn't have V.I.R.) > > > > > > > > Keep your eyes out for this one Steve, Jan had a track weekend there

a > > > > while ago and is campaigning to get this track into N2003 somehow,and

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> > > > Jan often gets what he wants :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > > > (uncle) Goy > > > > "goyl at nettx dot no" > > > > > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > > > > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > > > > --Groucho Marx-- > > > > > > > > > > > >

On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 12:16:05 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Yes, absolutely; one of the only two "fantasy" tracks in GPL I endorse w/o >reservation (the other is Diamante). > I'll have to DL Blue Mountain, tho I am still partial to Gronland as the best fantasy track. Nobody mentioned Spa in this subthread-what a great, great track. No blind corners and wide for a road course so a newbie can get along pretty well, but optimizing the various turns takes a long time to master (I'm still trying to figure out the best lines to take through L'Eau Rouge and Malmedy...). John DiFool

"Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding news:3eddcaf2 > Just had a go at this last night... > > The track look nice except for one thing.... a total lack of banking > (camber) in the corners hence making the cars understeer like hell.. Indeed - and it might be too narrow. the autor has posted his "limits" and it's up to anyone who wants to help improve it. I have a feeling this track will be phenomenal after a while. Oh. and I root for a modern Bathurst. I can't stomach racing the modern NASCAR around 60s tracks, but that's me. If I wanna slob around, I can go buy need for speed (harr, harr!) Matt

John DiFool (I'm still trying to figure > out the best lines to take through L'Eau Rouge and > Malmedy...). > > John DiFool > Yes, me too, I'm still working on the part from Eau Rouge to La Source. dave henrie

On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 21:49:21 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Lime Rock MC (or L.R. avec chicane) - my fav Brent Adams tracks I'd love to have all 3 versions of this track converted to n2k3. In fact, all 3 are tied as my #1 preference for a new GPL--> conversion. As far as the current conversions go, the ones I really like in a cup car are Laguna Seca, Mosport, and the Ring. I've never quite gotten the handle on Mosport in GPL, just barely squeaking into the negative side rank-wise while having offs every other corner, but in a cup car with that extra weight and monster grip it's an absolute blast to drive. Elkhart, Long Beach, Mid Ohio, and Portland are all nice as well, tho I find the other ICR2 conversions to be impossible to drive without using the steering hack. After slamming into the fence at 150mph multiple times, I think I'm starting to see why they added the inner loop to the Glen. Spa is nice too, especially trying to take Masta at 200+, but doesn't really have the same level of excitement as it does in GPL where you're skittering to and fro in what seems like an eternity of 4-wheel drifts. Mt. Panorama is good but the mountain section seems a bit off to me, just based on the other versions I've played (GPL, PRD) and the bits of races I've seen there. It's almost like the elevation changes are slightly exaggerated and the turn radii are too tight or something. Anyway, I think Brent's people need to talk to Dave's people and see if we can get some nice new Lime Rock versions to drive. =) Jason

On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 15:55:36 +0200, "Matt Knutsen" <matt|||SPAMGUARD||@knutspeed.com> wrote: >Oh. and I root for a modern Bathurst. I can't stomach racing the modern >NASCAR around 60s tracks, but that's me. If I wanna slob around, I can go >buy need for speed (harr, harr!) Isn't the version with walls and the broken-backstraight based on the modern track? Jason

On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 14:30:56 GMT, Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>John DiFool (I'm still trying to figure >> out the best lines to take through L'Eau Rouge and >> Malmedy...). >> >> John DiFool >> > > Yes, me too, I'm still working on the part from Eau Rouge to La Source. > >dave henrie >

LOL! Since I ditched anti-lock braking a month ago, I recently discovered that downshifting while braking increases my braking distance. Now I can nail the (La Source) hairpin much quicker than I did before, if I downshift right before I get back on the gas. I also find that, while I CAN get through Masta flat out, that it is a gamble to do so, and lifting just a bit to slide the car into the proper entry is much safer. JD

"Jason Moyer" wrote: > Isn't the version with walls and the broken-backstraight based on the > modern track? Yup.... Seems like Matt could use some glasses <g!> -- ed_

I saw bathurst. Is Mt. Panorama actually Bathurst? If that's the case then I already have it :) Vintook "Aidee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bbib9o$v6c$[email hidden]...

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> http://www.theuspits.com/index.html > > if you cant see where to download Bathurst you need an eye test mate.. > > AD > >

"[email hidden]" wrote: > > I saw bathurst. Is Mt. Panorama actually Bathurst? If that's the case then I > already have it :) <tsk tsk tsk> Seems like I still have a lot of work ahead of me in here....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Garth wrote:

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> > If anyone is working on VIR for NR2003, *please* kindly let me know.... we > don't need two (or more) versions of it, and I have been preparing to start > on it. > > Also, if anyone is working on it, I would be happy to share the track info I > have -- I was given a 4 foot by six foot map (!) of the track that was used > for the GPL version, and I have been there a few times so I might be able to > recall some details. > > If someone else does the full course, I would be interested in doing the > North Course which I have driven and is a blast also.

I don't know of anyone actually working on one Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Steve Smith wrote:

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> > Hi Goy, > > Any (or all) of these tracks would delight me. Our friend Achim--who seems > to have been "away from his desk" for these past coupla weeks--favors Cup > cars crashing around Monte Carlo like the proverbial bull in a china shop. > I prefer larger arenas, with room to swing a cat (which may be why I'm aka > Toonces).

Yeah, me too, I can't stand these Mickey Mouse tracks :-), unfortunately my "real life" schedule doesn't allow me much time to enjoy all of this stuff right now Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Bruce Kennewell wrote:

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> > I must be brutally honest, Goy, and say that I don't find it nearly as > appealing as the one created for GPL. > > Apart from a couple of innacuracies, which are minor and really have no > detrimental effect on driving the circuit, there appears to be something > wrong with the coefficient of friction; this circuit is VERY slippery. > It also appears way too narrow in parts - off Skyline, down through The > Dipper and into Forest Elbow in particular. > > I would really like to see a converted version of the GPL Mt. Panorama, as I > prefer Con-rod Straight without the chicane.

Oh well, it Bathurst at least :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

The problem I have with Spa (one of my favorite tracks in GPL) is that it is so unforgiving...and if you make even the tiniest mistake, you ruin 195 seconds' worth of hard work. Unlike Zandy or Riverside in N2003, where you can get a wheel off and not pay for it with your life (altho certainly not in GPL, much less in *real* life), few silly millimeters off and you're headed for that Big Zippy in the Sky. I also find it on the narrow side, which doesn't bode well for online play. In sum: easy to learn; hard to master. One of the greats. "John DiFool" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 12:16:05 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Yes, absolutely; one of the only two "fantasy" tracks in GPL I endorsew/o

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> >reservation (the other is Diamante). > > > > I'll have to DL Blue Mountain, tho I am still partial to Gronland as > the best fantasy track. > > Nobody mentioned Spa in this subthread-what a great, great > track. No blind corners and wide for a road course so a > newbie can get along pretty well, but optimizing the various > turns takes a long time to master (I'm still trying to figure > out the best lines to take through L'Eau Rouge and > Malmedy...). > > John DiFool >

I agree Brent's variations on Lime Rock are masterpieces...for GPL, but the Cup cars are Brobdingagian by comparison, lumbering monsters that take up a *lot* of real estate. The original Lime Rock is tuff enuf to find a place to pass on, which is why I would favor either the short track *with* the chicane (you can thus get a wheel inside somebody going up the hill) and/or the Mountain Circuit, which adds a couple more places to get a pass done. But I think the chicane-less short course would be an aneurism waiting to happen. "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 21:49:21 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Lime Rock MC (or L.R. avec chicane) - my fav Brent Adams tracks > > I'd love to have all 3 versions of this track converted to n2k3. In > fact, all 3 are tied as my #1 preference for a new GPL--> conversion. > > As far as the current conversions go, the ones I really like in a cup > car are Laguna Seca, Mosport, and the Ring. I've never quite gotten > the handle on Mosport in GPL, just barely squeaking into the negative > side rank-wise while having offs every other corner, but in a cup car > with that extra weight and monster grip it's an absolute blast to > drive. Elkhart, Long Beach, Mid Ohio, and Portland are all nice as > well, tho I find the other ICR2 conversions to be impossible to drive > without using the steering hack. After slamming into the fence at > 150mph multiple times, I think I'm starting to see why they added the > inner loop to the Glen. Spa is nice too, especially trying to take > Masta at 200+, but doesn't really have the same level of excitement as > it does in GPL where you're skittering to and fro in what seems like > an eternity of 4-wheel drifts. > > Mt. Panorama is good but the mountain section seems a bit off to me, > just based on the other versions I've played (GPL, PRD) and the bits > of races I've seen there. It's almost like the elevation changes are > slightly exaggerated and the turn radii are too tight or something. > > Anyway, I think Brent's people need to talk to Dave's people and see > if we can get some nice new Lime Rock versions to drive. =) > > Jason

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> > > "[email hidden]" wrote: >> >> I saw bathurst. Is Mt. Panorama actually Bathurst? If that's the case >> then I already have it :) > > <tsk tsk tsk> > > Seems like I still have a lot of work ahead of me in here....:-) >

Yes you gots some 'splaining to do to these folks. You gots ta learn'em that Bathurst is the town where Mt Panorama is located near and the track is referred to as either. Next you can 'splain the name Mullawawa or whatever that track is...:) dave henrie

Dave Henrie wrote:

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> > Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > > > > > > > "[email hidden]" wrote: > >> > >> I saw bathurst. Is Mt. Panorama actually Bathurst? If that's the case > >> then I already have it :) > > > > <tsk tsk tsk> > > > > Seems like I still have a lot of work ahead of me in here....:-) > > > > Yes you gots some 'splaining to do to these folks. You gots ta learn'em > that Bathurst is the town where Mt Panorama is located near and the track > is referred to as either. Next you can 'splain the name Mullawawa or > whatever that track is...:)

Errr, no, I'll leave that one to one of the locals, boy that name was a mouthful :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Steve B., On second thought, I'd have to recant my unequivocal endorsement of Blue Mountain. The overall shape is brilliant, but the dips are totally unrealistic; no RW race track could exist with vertical developments like that. Of course, the Nurburgring *did* exist with car-launchers like that, but it's basically gone (except as a venue for drunken tourists to launch themselves into Sativa). And Cup cars' suspensions aren't as supple as '67 F1 cars. It would make for a great rally car experience (my GPL setups have the max ride height...and the cars *still* bottom out), but as a stock car track...I think not. --Steve S. "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9qlDa.3570$[email hidden]... > Yes, absolutely; one of the only two "fantasy" tracks in GPL I endorse w/o > reservation (the other is Diamante). > > "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Nobody asked me either, but I'll jump in and vote for Blue Mountain; nota

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> > real track, of course, but if you haven't tried it in GPL yet, you're > > missing out on a great drive. Pretty simple layout and fairly easy to > learn > > the basics of, but it has a nice rhythm and some serious high speed > > gut-checks. Think Masta with elevation changes! > > > > Takes a special blend of technique and hara-kiri commitment to really go > > quick on. Those stockers would probably be easier to keep on the

ground, > > too... ;-) > > > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:bbjmag$a20fn$[email hidden]... > > > Not that anybody asked me, but I think Donington in a cup car would be > > > fantastic. Enough straights for a little drafting, and a gut-checkfull

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> > > throttle section through the first few turns. > > > > > > > > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:zLaDa.6080$[email hidden]... > > > > Hi Goy, > > > > > > > > Any (or all) of these tracks would delight me. Our friend

Achim--who > > > seems > > > > to have been "away from his desk" for these past couplaweeks--favors > > Cup > > > > cars crashing around Monte Carlo like the proverbial bull in a china > > shop. > > > > I prefer larger arenas, with room to swing a cat (which may be whyI'm > > aka > > > > Toonces). > > > > > > > > Of all the wonderful tracks Dave Noonan's converters have given us,I

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> > like > > > > driving Zandvoort the best - it has a great rhythm (and the > consequences > > > of > > > > getting a wheel off aren't nearly as dire as in GPL). Likewise, > > > > Bridgehampton (where I saw the big ol' stockers run in the 1960s) > might > > be > > > > even better. > > > > > > > > Riverside is my second fav, mainly because I saw Gurney hustle the > Wood > > > > Brothers' Mercury around there when I was a kid, and I marvelled at > the > > > car > > > > control he had over that 427 cu. in. monster. I only drove there in > > > > iddy-biddy (as Dubya would say) Porsches, but even now the Esses

raise > > the > > > > hackles on my neck. But oh, that interminable backstretch! I wishwe > > had > > > > the "sports car" course (T6 to T7 to T7A, eliminating T8, andhalving

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> > the > > > > back straight). > > > > > > > > Admittedly, Elkhart and Silverstone are "stab it and steer it," drag > > races > > > > between right-angled corners, but the Oesterreichring is a blast, > > > infinitely > > > > better than the emasculated version now masquerading as the "A1"

Ring. > > I > > > > bet Noonan's superb Imola and Road Atlanta would be equally fine. > > > > > > > > I'll never be good enough to master the other 'ring, Nurburg, andeven > > > Sears > > > > is too tricky for me. I like the old Glen better than the new one, > and > > > most > > > > of the street courses (except the relatively long-legged Surfers)are

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> > > > tank-slapping bores, altho Achim did get me to try Detroit (where I > used > > > to > > > > wreck with depressing regularity in IndyCar Racing II), and, lo, I > liked > > > it. > > > > It has a nice flow, even though it's kinda like a lateral > Steeplechase. > > > > > > > > I haven't had this much fun in a driving game since "Mobil 1 Rally > > > > Championship." > > > > > > > > --Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Fair. It ought to appeal mightily to the Aussie V8 hooligans > > looking > > > > for a > > > > > > suitable venue. Seems kinda hemmed in for such an open setting, > > tho. > > > > > > > > > > Then for some reason I suspect it will appeal to me :-) > > > > > > > > > > > If I had a wish list for a dozen N2003-enabled natural-terrain > road > > > > > > circuits, it would have to include (in order of appeal): > > > > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > > > > V.I.R. - if the Bridge is an American Zandy, this is a Yank

Reims > > > > > > Reims (if I couldn't have V.I.R.) > > > > > > > > > > Keep your eyes out for this one Steve, Jan had a track weekendthere

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> a > > > > > while ago and is campaigning to get this track into N2003 somehow, > and > > > > > Jan often gets what he wants :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > > > > (uncle) Goy > > > > > "goyl at nettx dot no" > > > > > > > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > > > > > > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > > > > > --Groucho Marx-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Dave Henrie wrote:

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> John DiFool (I'm still trying to figure >> out the best lines to take through L'Eau Rouge and >> Malmedy...). >> >> John DiFool >> > > Yes, me too, I'm still working on the part from Eau Rouge to La > Source. > > dave henrie

Well, that's yer problem right there !!! La source is before Eau Rouge ! You're going the wrong way !! ;) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spammers>

Well, what do you expect from an ex-motocrosser? ;-) You're right about the ups-n-downs for real-life racing, but they struck me as about the limit for a "sim" before you got into real fantasy territory ala Senza. I could live without so much camber in the two end turns since they make braking into them too forgiving, but otherwise the builder did a great job placing the more subtle dips, bumps and crests, and the sections that require max commitment have some lead-in that let the tension build as you approach them. Excellent flow and drama, and a more "real" feel than most other fantasy tracks. I did wonder how the NR2003 damage model might like scrubbing the pan so much, but figured the downforce and added grip would help over the hills. St. Jovite's a much calmer place in a cup car, for instance. Now that I think about it, Landmark's another nice fantasy track that might work well with cup cars. The tunnel section's a tad cheesy, but otherwise it's lovely. SB "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qCsDa.4045$[email hidden]... > Steve B., > > On second thought, I'd have to recant my unequivocal endorsement of Blue > Mountain. The overall shape is brilliant, but the dips are totally > unrealistic; no RW race track could exist with vertical developments like > that. Of course, the Nurburgring *did* exist with car-launchers likethat, > but it's basically gone (except as a venue for drunken tourists to launch > themselves into Sativa). And Cup cars' suspensions aren't as supple as'67 > F1 cars. It would make for a great rally car experience (my GPL setupshave

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> the max ride height...and the cars *still* bottom out), but as a stock car > track...I think not. > > --Steve S. > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9qlDa.3570$[email hidden]... > > Yes, absolutely; one of the only two "fantasy" tracks in GPL I endorse

w/o > > reservation (the other is Diamante). > > > > "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote inmessage > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Nobody asked me either, but I'll jump in and vote for Blue Mountain;not

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> a > > > real track, of course, but if you haven't tried it in GPL yet, you're > > > missing out on a great drive. Pretty simple layout and fairly easy to > > learn > > > the basics of, but it has a nice rhythm and some serious high speed > > > gut-checks. Think Masta with elevation changes! > > > > > > Takes a special blend of technique and hara-kiri commitment to really

go

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> > > quick on. Those stockers would probably be easier to keep on the > ground, > > > too... ;-) > > > > > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:bbjmag$a20fn$[email hidden]... > > > > Not that anybody asked me, but I think Donington in a cup car would

be

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> > > > fantastic. Enough straights for a little drafting, and a gut-check > full > > > > throttle section through the first few turns. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:zLaDa.6080$[email hidden]... > > > > > Hi Goy, > > > > > > > > > > Any (or all) of these tracks would delight me. Our friend > Achim--who > > > > seems > > > > > to have been "away from his desk" for these past coupla > weeks--favors > > > Cup > > > > > cars crashing around Monte Carlo like the proverbial bull in a

china

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > > shop. > > > > > I prefer larger arenas, with room to swing a cat (which may be why > I'm > > > aka > > > > > Toonces). > > > > > > > > > > Of all the wonderful tracks Dave Noonan's converters have given

us,

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> I > > > like > > > > > driving Zandvoort the best - it has a great rhythm (and the > > consequences > > > > of > > > > > getting a wheel off aren't nearly as dire as in GPL). Likewise, > > > > > Bridgehampton (where I saw the big ol' stockers run in the 1960s) > > might > > > be > > > > > even better. > > > > > > > > > > Riverside is my second fav, mainly because I saw Gurney hustle the > > Wood > > > > > Brothers' Mercury around there when I was a kid, and I marvelled

at > > the > > > > car > > > > > control he had over that 427 cu. in. monster. I only drove therein > > > > > iddy-biddy (as Dubya would say) Porsches, but even now the Esses > raise > > > the > > > > > hackles on my neck. But oh, that interminable backstretch! Iwish

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> we > > > had > > > > > the "sports car" course (T6 to T7 to T7A, eliminating T8, and > halving > > > the > > > > > back straight). > > > > > > > > > > Admittedly, Elkhart and Silverstone are "stab it and steer it,"

drag

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> > > races > > > > > between right-angled corners, but the Oesterreichring is a blast, > > > > infinitely > > > > > better than the emasculated version now masquerading as the "A1" > Ring. > > > I > > > > > bet Noonan's superb Imola and Road Atlanta would be equally fine. > > > > > > > > > > I'll never be good enough to master the other 'ring, Nurburg, and > even > > > > Sears > > > > > is too tricky for me. I like the old Glen better than the new

one, > > and > > > > most > > > > > of the street courses (except the relatively long-legged Surfers) > are > > > > > tank-slapping bores, altho Achim did get me to try Detroit (whereI

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> > used > > > > to > > > > > wreck with depressing regularity in IndyCar Racing II), and, lo, I > > liked > > > > it. > > > > > It has a nice flow, even though it's kinda like a lateral > > Steeplechase. > > > > > > > > > > I haven't had this much fun in a driving game since "Mobil 1 Rally > > > > > Championship." > > > > > > > > > > --Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fair. It ought to appeal mightily to the Aussie V8 hooligans > > > looking > > > > > for a > > > > > > > suitable venue. Seems kinda hemmed in for such an open

setting,

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> > > tho. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then for some reason I suspect it will appeal to me :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I had a wish list for a dozen N2003-enabled natural-terrain > > road > > > > > > > circuits, it would have to include (in order of appeal): > > > > > > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > V.I.R. - if the Bridge is an American Zandy, this is a Yank > Reims > > > > > > > Reims (if I couldn't have V.I.R.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep your eyes out for this one Steve, Jan had a track weekend > there > > a > > > > > > while ago and is campaigning to get this track into N2003

somehow,

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> > and > > > > > > Jan often gets what he wants :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > > > > > (uncle) Goy > > > > > > "goyl at nettx dot no" > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > > > > > > > > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > > > > > > --Groucho Marx-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:i0tDa.34572$[email hidden]:

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> Dave Henrie wrote: >> John DiFool (I'm still trying to figure >>> out the best lines to take through L'Eau Rouge and >>> Malmedy...). >>> >>> John DiFool >>> >> >> Yes, me too, I'm still working on the part from Eau Rouge to La >> Source. >> >> dave henrie > > Well, that's yer problem right there !!! La source is before Eau Rouge ! > You're going the wrong way !! ;) > > -- > > Ian P > <email invalid due to spammers>

I was thinking of the gpl track...does the Nr 2003 conversion move the s/f line to the current area? But it doesn't matter, I suck frontwards or backwards dave henrie

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>...

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> > > Bruce Kennewell wrote: > > > > I must be brutally honest, Goy, and say that I don't find it nearly as > > appealing as the one created for GPL. > > > > Apart from a couple of innacuracies, which are minor and really have no > > detrimental effect on driving the circuit, there appears to be

something > > wrong with the coefficient of friction; this circuit is VERY slippery. > > It also appears way too narrow in parts - off Skyline, down through The > > Dipper and into Forest Elbow in particular. > > > > I would really like to see a converted version of the GPL Mt. Panorama,as I

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> > prefer Con-rod Straight without the chicane. > > Oh well, it Bathurst at least :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "goyl at nettx dot no" > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx-- >

I tend to prefer the later version of Bathurst, the one with the chicane. We already have an earlier version which is suited to the GPL time frame better, but for NR2003, i feel that the current layout of Bathurst is more of a challenge and gives a better "seat of the pants" feeling for sedan racing, all IMO of course. This release of Bathurst for NR2003 is really quite a good example of the modern day track and Carlos did a great job of getting the basic layout and elevations to resemble the real life thing. Nice job Carlos, well done..!! In the readme file that came with this track, Carlos admitted that some graphical additions would be welcome, so i hope somone takes up this challenge and turns this track into the masterpiece it is begging to be.. The only problem i can really see with it, is it doesn't feel wide enough to me. The modern day Bathurst is quite wide and has plenty of run off room at the end of Conrod and the Start/Finish straight, which would help for on-line play a fair bit. :) The only other thing i find a little "wrong feeling" is that the chicane is a little too tight, but that is based on my own impressions of only having driven through the chicane at legal road speed. <G> and watching the speed that the Ozzie V8s go through the chicane. The main thing though from my perspective though, is that i would like to see it a little wider to allow for the limitations that NR2003 places on us with view angles etc. It might be just view perspective, but it definetely doesn't feel as wide as the real thing, no-where near. I hope it can be widened a little in a future version. All in all though, this track is a great addition to NR2003 and the sim community and i think all Ozzies, (and Goy, our honorary Ozzie) would agree with a job well done. So, come on guys, get them painting packages out and give us some genuine Ozzie Gum trees and some of that famous Blue Gooch where it should be.. Nice to see your return to the group too Bruce, been a while. :) Cheers, Ron

Ron Ayton wrote:

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> > I tend to prefer the later version of Bathurst, the one with the chicane. > We already have an earlier version which is suited to the GPL time frame > better, but for NR2003, i feel that the current layout of Bathurst is more > of a challenge and gives a better "seat of the pants" feeling for sedan > racing, all IMO of course. > This release of Bathurst for NR2003 is really quite a good example of the > modern day track and Carlos did a great job of getting the basic layout and > elevations to resemble the real life thing. Nice job Carlos, well > done..!! > In the readme file that came with this track, Carlos admitted that some > graphical additions would be welcome, so i hope somone takes up this > challenge and turns this track into the masterpiece it is begging to be.. > The only problem i can really see with it, is it doesn't feel wide enough > to me. The modern day Bathurst is quite wide and has plenty of run off > room at the end of Conrod and the Start/Finish straight, which would help > for on-line play a fair bit. :) > The only other thing i find a little "wrong feeling" is that the chicane is > a little too tight, but that is based on my own impressions of only having > driven through the chicane at legal road speed. <G> and watching the > speed that the Ozzie V8s go through the chicane. > The main thing though from my perspective though, is that i would like to > see it a little wider to allow for the limitations that NR2003 places on us > with view angles etc. > It might be just view perspective, but it definetely doesn't feel as wide > as the real thing, no-where near. I hope it can be widened a little in a > future version. > All in all though, this track is a great addition to NR2003 and the sim > community and i think all Ozzies, (and Goy, our honorary Ozzie) would > agree with a job well done. > So, come on guys, get them painting packages out and give us some genuine > Ozzie Gum trees and some of that famous Blue Gooch where it should be.. > > Nice to see your return to the group too Bruce, been a while. :)

Yup :-) As for Bathurst, thx for the comments Ron, unlike you I've only seen it on TV, I can however confirm that Carlos is working on an update as he feels that a couple of the corners aren't quite right, and I believe Jay B, or DraftDancer as we know him is working his magic on the Gfx Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy .... honorary Aussie and proud of it "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

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> THe F1 2k2 mods have a version of VIR...great track...the secondary pits > don't work :( but maybe when the next mod base is released(Formula 1 > Challenge) we'll get the ability to sort classes at different pits) Hellooo > Spa! > The VIR for the F1 2k2 mods has recently been updated to include a dip > in the esses. This always caught my eye when watching the tv coverage and > I was somewhat disappointed that the GPL version did not have this dip. > However the new update is almost a sinkhole, you really bottom out there. > Great fun in a smaller car.

The reason why VIR is so nice in F1-2k2 is because I sat down with Tantra and we went through a lot of things to get the circuit right. It was almost like the GPL circuit when I first saw it, but I gave input and Tantra built, and it's a pretty good replica now. Still a few things that are off, dunno if he's going to continue with any more updates or not. Cheers! �� Jan Kohl ::: computer security consultant ::: the pits - http://www.theuspits.com castle graphics - http://www.castlegraphics.com

On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 19:07:08 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>The problem I have with Spa (one of my favorite tracks in GPL) is that it is >so unforgiving...and if you make even the tiniest mistake, you ruin 195 >seconds' worth of hard work. Unlike Zandy or Riverside in N2003, where you >can get a wheel off and not pay for it with your life (altho certainly not >in GPL, much less in *real* life), few silly millimeters off and you're >headed for that Big Zippy in the Sky. I also find it on the narrow side, >which doesn't bode well for online play. In sum: easy to learn; hard to >master. One of the greats.

*shrug* I have gotten 3-wide at Spa, something you really can't do at (for ex.) Rouen. The AI tho often tries to go two-wide through the Kink, and often pays dearly for doing so. :-) The best places to pass are as soon as you hit the long straights, if you can get a good draft/ good exit off the guy ahead of you... A wheel off on the small dirt strip along the side of the track is no big deal (if I compensate with some opposite-steer)-the side banks are another story of course. I'd say it is much more drivable online (not being an online driver with a crappy 56K connection) than many of the converted road courses. I personally like having "breathers"-periods when I can relax and just enjoy the scenery, before I hit the next gut-wrenching turn or twist. JD

> The reason why VIR is so nice in F1-2k2 is because I sat down with Tantra and we went through a lot of things to get thecircuit > right. It was almost like the GPL circuit when I first saw it, but I gave input and Tantra built, and it's a pretty good > replica now. Still a few things that are off, dunno if he's going to continue with any more updates or not. Boy that sounded awfully condescending. Well, at any rate, it looks good...if I do say so myself... :) Cheers! Jan

Steve Smith wrote: > On second thought, I'd have to recant my unequivocal endorsement of Blue > Mountain. The overall shape is brilliant, but the dips are totally > unrealistic; no RW race track could exist with vertical developments like > that. Well at last, I thought I was the only one... It's a nice-looking track but the on-track jumps/canyons are just silly, imho. Even when you crawl around this track the car bottoms out and swerves like crazy, so in the end it "feels" pretty unrealistic, totally unsuited to F1 cars. Unless we get rally cars in GPL... Diamante on the other hand is nice and I *wish* they'd build Ridgehill - feels like the ultimate mix of US and European racing :) Regards, Rudy PS. Steve, your quoting still is atrocious mate, I had to cut nearly 95 % off yer message (sorry) ;)

"Jan Kohl"

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> Boy that sounded awfully condescending. Well, at any rate, it looks > good...if I do say so myself... :) > > Cheers! > > Jan > > >

Well thankyou for the effort! It's a great rendition.

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in article

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> > As for Bathurst, thx for the comments Ron, unlike you I've only seen it > on TV, I can however confirm that Carlos is working on an update as he > feels that a couple of the corners aren't quite right, and I believe Jay > B, or DraftDancer as we know him is working his magic on the Gfx > >

That's great news Goy, Bathurst is the one track that IMO, has never been done true justice in the sim world. With a little care and attention to detail, which seems to me what Carlos is aiming for, along with help from Draftdancer's deft hand in a paint program (and others, god willing), then we may finally get what we have all been missing for a long time. I always told you Goy that if you ever get down to Oz, i'll take the time off work to run you up to Bathurst, and hopefully you too can go home with a speeding fine under you belt, with the famous words, "Bathurst City Council" in the location description on your fine. <G> Looking forward to the next version of Carlos's track. Cheers, Ron.

Do you mean, "Mallala"? :) http://www.v8supercar.com.au/circuits/circuitevtprm.asp?vid=131&ind=N "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Errr, no, I'll leave that one to one of the locals, boy that name was a > mouthful :-) >

Did I hear the word "Rendition"?! Now, that was a good 3-D graphics format. Bruce.

Thanks, Ron. A resurgence of interest in the racing-sim genre, s'pose, perhaps generated by the desperate hope that IRL is worthy of consideration and also the release of converter for N2003. You have paralleled the comment I made about the width of the track and, as you also have driven the circuit, I'm comforted by the fact that another person who has done so agrees with what I thought was wrong. There is definitely something amiss also with the tightness of the corners/bends across the top - particularly, as I mentioned, going down to Forest Elbow from Skyline. I was able to drive through that section (MX-5) in real life considerably faster than I can in N2003. I really want to like this version of Mt. Panorama - as much as I like the GPL version - but try as I might (and I tried for several hours yesterday!), it just irritates me. Bruce.

Ed, there is NO banking on the real track. Absolutely none. Bruce. "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3eddcaf2$[email hidden]...

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> Just had a go at this last night... > > The track look nice except for one thing.... a total lack of banking > (camber) in the corners hence making the cars understeer like hell.. > > -- > ed_ > >

Steve B, OTOH, I love the *reverse* camber going into the left kink after the 170-deg. turn before the McLaren Straight. Few track designers have the jones to do off-camber turns, altho there are many in real life. Ruud, Sorry abt. the quotes; I just hit the Reply button w/o scrolling to the bottom. This time, I'll edit. --Steve S "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Well, what do you expect from an ex-motocrosser? ;-) > > You're right about the ups-n-downs for real-life racing, but they struckme > as about the limit for a "sim" before you got into real fantasy territory > ala Senza. I could live without so much camber in the two end turns since > they make braking into them too forgiving, but otherwise the builder did a > great job placing the more subtle dips, bumps and crests, and the sections > that require max commitment have some lead-in that let the tension buildas

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> you approach them. Excellent flow and drama, and a more "real" feel than > most other fantasy tracks. > > I did wonder how the NR2003 damage model might like scrubbing the pan so > much, but figured the downforce and added grip would help over the hills. > St. Jovite's a much calmer place in a cup car, for instance. > > Now that I think about it, Landmark's another nice fantasy track that

might > work well with cup cars. The tunnel section's a tad cheesy, but otherwise > it's lovely. > > SB

Steve B, Very perceptive point abt. Ste. Jovite being "a much calmer place" than in GPL. So are most of Noonan's converted tracks, like Zandy, Mosport, and the Oring (altho I'm still struggling w. Nurbury).. In fact, I find the Cup cars altogether less frantic to drive than GPL's F1s, even easier than the F2s, despite the switch from the more forgiving bias-ply tires to the knife-edged radials. More rewarding. More fun. I finally understnad why Dave Kaemmer said he couldn't stand to drive GPL any more because its tire model was so primitive (altho the differences are far less apparent on the numb-nuts ovals). Brave new world, huh? --Steve "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Well, what do you expect from an ex-motocrosser? ;-) > > You're right about the ups-n-downs for real-life racing, but they struckme > as about the limit for a "sim" before you got into real fantasy territory > ala Senza. I could live without so much camber in the two end turns since > they make braking into them too forgiving, but otherwise the builder did a > great job placing the more subtle dips, bumps and crests, and the sections > that require max commitment have some lead-in that let the tension buildas

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> you approach them. Excellent flow and drama, and a more "real" feel than > most other fantasy tracks. > > I did wonder how the NR2003 damage model might like scrubbing the pan so > much, but figured the downforce and added grip would help over the hills. > St. Jovite's a much calmer place in a cup car, for instance. > > Now that I think about it, Landmark's another nice fantasy track that

might

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> work well with cup cars. The tunnel section's a tad cheesy, but otherwise > it's lovely. > > SB > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:qCsDa.4045$[email hidden]... > > Steve B., > > > > On second thought, I'd have to recant my unequivocal endorsement of Blue > > Mountain. The overall shape is brilliant, but the dips are totally > > unrealistic; no RW race track could exist with vertical developments

like > > that. Of course, the Nurburgring *did* exist with car-launchers like > that, > > but it's basically gone (except as a venue for drunken tourists tolaunch > > themselves into Sativa). And Cup cars' suspensions aren't as supple as > '67 > > F1 cars. It would make for a great rally car experience (my GPL setups > have > > the max ride height...and the cars *still* bottom out), but as a stockcar

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> > track...I think not. > > > > --Steve S. > > > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:9qlDa.3570$[email hidden]... > > > Yes, absolutely; one of the only two "fantasy" tracks in GPL I endorse > w/o > > > reservation (the other is Diamante). > > > > > > "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in > message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Nobody asked me either, but I'll jump in and vote for Blue Mountain; > not > > a > > > > real track, of course, but if you haven't tried it in GPL yet,

you're > > > > missing out on a great drive. Pretty simple layout and fairly easyto > > > learn > > > > the basics of, but it has a nice rhythm and some serious high speed > > > > gut-checks. Think Masta with elevation changes! > > > > > > > > Takes a special blend of technique and hara-kiri commitment toreally

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> go > > > > quick on. Those stockers would probably be easier to keep on the > > ground, > > > > too... ;-) > > > > > > > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:bbjmag$a20fn$[email hidden]... > > > > > Not that anybody asked me, but I think Donington in a cup car

would > be > > > > > fantastic. Enough straights for a little drafting, and agut-check

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> > full > > > > > throttle section through the first few turns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:zLaDa.6080$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Hi Goy, > > > > > > > > > > > > Any (or all) of these tracks would delight me. Our friend > > Achim--who > > > > > seems > > > > > > to have been "away from his desk" for these past coupla > > weeks--favors > > > > Cup > > > > > > cars crashing around Monte Carlo like the proverbial bull in a > china > > > > shop. > > > > > > I prefer larger arenas, with room to swing a cat (which may be

why

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> > I'm > > > > aka > > > > > > Toonces). > > > > > > > > > > > > Of all the wonderful tracks Dave Noonan's converters have given > us, > > I > > > > like > > > > > > driving Zandvoort the best - it has a great rhythm (and the > > > consequences > > > > > of > > > > > > getting a wheel off aren't nearly as dire as in GPL). Likewise, > > > > > > Bridgehampton (where I saw the big ol' stockers run in the

1960s) > > > might > > > > be > > > > > > even better. > > > > > > > > > > > > Riverside is my second fav, mainly because I saw Gurney hustlethe > > > Wood > > > > > > Brothers' Mercury around there when I was a kid, and I marvelled > at > > > the > > > > > car > > > > > > control he had over that 427 cu. in. monster. I only drovethere

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> in > > > > > > iddy-biddy (as Dubya would say) Porsches, but even now the Esses > > raise > > > > the > > > > > > hackles on my neck. But oh, that interminable backstretch! I > wish > > we > > > > had > > > > > > the "sports car" course (T6 to T7 to T7A, eliminating T8, and > > halving > > > > the > > > > > > back straight). > > > > > > > > > > > > Admittedly, Elkhart and Silverstone are "stab it and steer it," > drag > > > > races > > > > > > between right-angled corners, but the Oesterreichring is a

blast, > > > > > infinitely > > > > > > better than the emasculated version now masquerading as the "A1" > > Ring. > > > > I > > > > > > bet Noonan's superb Imola and Road Atlanta would be equallyfine. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll never be good enough to master the other 'ring, Nurburg,and

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> > even > > > > > Sears > > > > > > is too tricky for me. I like the old Glen better than the new > one, > > > and > > > > > most > > > > > > of the street courses (except the relatively long-legged

Surfers) > > are > > > > > > tank-slapping bores, altho Achim did get me to try Detroit(where > I > > > used > > > > > to > > > > > > wreck with depressing regularity in IndyCar Racing II), and, lo,I > > > liked > > > > > it. > > > > > > It has a nice flow, even though it's kinda like a lateral > > > Steeplechase. > > > > > > > > > > > > I haven't had this much fun in a driving game since "Mobil 1Rally

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> > > > > > Championship." > > > > > > > > > > > > --Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fair. It ought to appeal mightily to the Aussie V8

hooligans

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> > > > looking > > > > > > for a > > > > > > > > suitable venue. Seems kinda hemmed in for such an open > setting, > > > > tho. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then for some reason I suspect it will appeal to me :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I had a wish list for a dozen N2003-enabled

natural-terrain

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> > > road > > > > > > > > circuits, it would have to include (in order of appeal): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > V.I.R. - if the Bridge is an American Zandy, this is a Yank > > Reims > > > > > > > > Reims (if I couldn't have V.I.R.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep your eyes out for this one Steve, Jan had a track weekend > > there > > > a > > > > > > > while ago and is campaigning to get this track into N2003 > somehow, > > > and > > > > > > > Jan often gets what he wants :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > > > > > > (uncle) Goy > > > > > > > "goyl at nettx dot no" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > > > > > > > --Groucho Marx-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Ron Ayton wrote:

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> > That's great news Goy, Bathurst is the one track that IMO, has never been > done true justice in the sim world. > With a little care and attention to detail, which seems to me what Carlos > is aiming for, along with help from Draftdancer's deft hand in a paint > program (and others, god willing), then we may finally get what we have all > been missing for a long time. > I always told you Goy that if you ever get down to Oz, i'll take the time > off work to run you up to Bathurst, and hopefully you too can go home with > a speeding fine under you belt, with the famous words, "Bathurst City > Council" in the location description on your fine. <G> > Looking forward to the next version of Carlos's track.

That would be awesome....a speeding ticket from that place, LOL, I wouldn't even dream of trying to talk my way out of that one :-), must rent a Commodore though, gotta be a Commodore :-) I take it from the "you too" comment that you already have one ? :-) Oz, and Kiwi land are high on my list over places to visit at some point in the future :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Bruce Kennewell wrote: > > Do you mean, "Mallala"? :) > http://www.v8supercar.com.au/circuits/circuitevtprm.asp?vid=131&ind=N Nope, it was .... http://www.v8supercar.com.au/circuits/circuitevtprm.asp?vid=123&ind=M ....actually :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>...

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> > That would be awesome....a speeding ticket from that place, LOL, I > wouldn't even dream of trying to talk my way out of that one :-), must > rent a Commodore though, gotta be a Commodore :-) > > I take it from the "you too" comment that you already have one ? :-) > > Oz, and Kiwi land are high on my list over places to visit at some point > in the future :-) > >

Actually it's a bit embarrassing... We always used to do the trek from Tassie up to Bathurst every year, from about the early 70s up to the late 80s, both for the bike races at Easter and the V8 racing in October, never missed a year either. :) Our usual mode of transport was a varying collection of bikes, ranging from the old K Model Honda 750, down to a CB175 Honda and everything in between, including one brave soul that actually took a Honda XL70 trail bike all the way from Tassie to Bathurst.. LOL, that was a laugh, he used to start riding about 2 hours earlier than us and finish about 2 hours later, just to catch up to us again that evening. We used to pass him about 100 miles up the road of a morning and by the time he arrived at our set camp spots of a night, we usually had all the camp made, tents up, supper cooked and were all sitting around the campfire with a bowl of stew, a brew or two and waiting for his arrival. LOL, sheesh the things we used to do. :) Anyway, to cut a longish story slightly shorter, this year (1979 i think it was) we decided to take cars instead. There were only 4 of us this year, so we took my old 1956 Ford Prefect, our reasoning was, "cheap to run" and a misplaced sense of adventure. This Prefect was the ugliest looking thing you have ever seen on 4 wheels, with that 'orrible Pinky looking colour they came out in, along with a Flat Black bonnet, but i loved it like a son... :) We eventually arrived at the city of Bathurst around 8:00pm on the Thursday night, after many adventures that i don't have the room, or more to the point, i'm not game enough to relate here, (like the locust plague that we decided to be "heroes" and drive through, only to clog our radiator up and overheat) but that's another story... After a hot Ozzie meal of 3 Pies & Sauce, we decided to head up to the mountain for a quite perusal of the camping areas etc. We eventually found a spare 6 ft area basically free of bodies and set up camp. Unfortunately we forgot the basic ingredient of a weekend on the mountain, a slab of beer :) so we had to pile back into the Pink Panther and head back into town. The track was opened of a night back then for public use, (though well patrolled by Oz's finest) so as usual we took the scenic drive and ended up just crawling down Conrod at about 30 mph. About halfway down the straight i went to apply the brakes to slow us a down a touch and the brake pedal went straight to the floor.. Hmmm, didn't look good, still we always had our trusty handbrake, the one that never worked properly.... Pulling on the handbrake did slightly slow our gathering momentum a fraction, but nothing worth bragging about, until we arrived at the base of Conrod where it started to flatten out. We ever so gracefully pulled over onto the grass bank on the left, just opposite an old farm house and were immediately illuminated by the headlights of the local patrol car. His first reaction when we told him what had happened and that we had driven all the way from Tassie, was one of dis-belief. Don't get me wrong, the Pink Panther wasn't as bad as i make it sound, it was a nice little car actually and pretty much road worthy, apart from the less than perfect handbrake, but he still booked us for exceeding 35mph on a "public" street, we actually clocked 47mph according to him, though i didn't think it would go that fast, even in "coast" mode... <G> Keep in mind this was with a audience of approx 500,000 (well it seemed that many) jeering, laughing Ozzie Yobbos, then we had to set up a Hurricane lamp and replace the slave cylinder seals that blew out in the left front wheel. We never did get our slab that night, but the fine collection of friendlyYobbos kept my mates from de-hydrating while i was performing surgery, all the while i had to drink Coke as i was driving.. :( 'Nuff said... Cheers, Ron.

Oh...righty-oh then! Last century this used to be known simply as "Wanneroo" but then some bloke - Barbarossa or Barbarella or whatever - bought the land and his ego was so puffed-up that he wanted the circuit named after him. Most of us still refer to it as "Wanneroo". :) Bruce. "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Nope, it was .... > > http://www.v8supercar.com.au/circuits/circuitevtprm.asp?vid=123&ind=M > > ....actually :-)

Ron Ayton wrote: > > Actually it's a bit embarrassing... Not at all, great story mate :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Bruce Kennewell wrote: > > Oh...righty-oh then! > Last century this used to be known simply as "Wanneroo" but then some > bloke - Barbarossa or Barbarella or whatever - bought the land and his ego > was so puffed-up that he wanted the circuit named after him. > Most of us still refer to it as "Wanneroo". :) LOL, the reader's digest version of what happened, works for me :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

The difference is in the tires - Cup cars have really skimpy contact patches relative to their weight. And very little downforce. And a relatively high center of gravity. And fairly low drag. And a decidedly un-racy weight distribution. All of which makes them...well, Cup cars. I had no interest in them until all these road courses came out. The amazing advances in the physics/tire modeling between GPL and N2003 allow you to get a real feel for how they might handle in real life. Not like conventional race cars, fersure, but they're a pure joy to wrestle around a typical 'handling' course like Zandy, Mosport, Ste. Jovite, or the Rings (O and Nurby). Less illuminating are the 'stab-it-and-steer-it' tracks like Elkhart, Surfers, Long Beach, and Cleveland. I'm having a ball.... P.S. I've totally abandoned the setups that came with the road courses and am applying everything I've ever learned from tweaking GPL setups over the years. It's to Papy's further credit that N2003's Cup cars, cumbersome dinosaurs that they are, respond so vividly to subtle changes in the setups. "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bbjmmh$aas03$[email hidden]... > Yeah I think sometimes we overdramatize the weight of the cup cars. Or > maybe it's the Papy physics, or the default setups, I don't know. But at > 3400 lbs. a cup car may be a bit heavy compared to other forms of racecars > but they are within a few hundred pounds of production Vipers, Corvettes, > and Porsches, cars which most people regard as having pretty goodhandling,

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> and have a power to weight ratio that only the most exotic production cars > can come close to. All things considered they should feel plenty fast and > nimble in comparison to anything you can drive on the street. > > "Matt Knutsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3edc5157$[email hidden]... > > > > I'll say it again; Mark Hales in Dale Jarrett's #88 T-bird up the

Goodwood > > hillclimb a few years ago - on pace with the WRC cars! It didn't lookbig, > > spongy or sluggish too me. Quite the contrary infact. A small racecar > > (lower, shorter & wider than the same years BTCC Mondeo..), LOUD andfast! > > > >

All true if you are comparing them to other race cars, but again my point is that they can still whoop just about anything you can drive on the street. In all the categories you mentioned except weight they are superior to the latest Corvettes, Vipers, and Porsche Turbos, and even in the weight category they are only about 100 lbs. off. This is why it seems to me like they should feel more racy than they do in the game. They should feel at least as good as a simulated Viper, for example. About the only reason I can think of that they wouldn't is that they are also heavily overdamped, far more than anything anybody would use on the street, and that perhaps is why the chassis responds so slowly, not due to weight but due to damping. It might be interesting to try reducing the damping on a road course to see how it compares. Someday, when I get the time... "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SVtFa.29385$[email hidden]... > The difference is in the tires - Cup cars have really skimpy contactpatches > relative to their weight. And very little downforce. And a relativelyhigh > center of gravity. And fairly low drag. And a decidedly un-racy weight > distribution. All of which makes them...well, Cup cars. I had nointerest > in them until all these road courses came out. The amazing advances inthe > physics/tire modeling between GPL and N2003 allow you to get a real feelfor

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> how they might handle in real life. Not like conventional race cars, > fersure, but they're a pure joy to wrestle around a typical 'handling' > course like Zandy, Mosport, Ste. Jovite, or the Rings (O and Nurby). Less > illuminating are the 'stab-it-and-steer-it' tracks like Elkhart, Surfers, > Long Beach, and Cleveland. I'm having a ball.... > > P.S. I've totally abandoned the setups that came with the road courses and > am applying everything I've ever learned from tweaking GPL setups over the > years. It's to Papy's further credit that N2003's Cup cars, cumbersome > dinosaurs that they are, respond so vividly to subtle changes in the

setups. >

Apples & oranges. Having spent years trying to drive street cars at racing speeds on race tracks (what was I thinking?) when I was road-testing cars for Car and Driver, I can assure you that even Corvettes and Vipers are not much fun anywhere near their limit. Or mine. Using Denis Jenkinson's "tenths" param, I doubt that I was ever comfortable over 5 or 6 tenths in *any* road car, including Porsches and Ferraris. I doubt that it would make an interesting sim. (Even Papyrus gave up on the idea. GPL was planned with a road car in addition to the F1/F2/F3 cars, modeling the habit of top drivers renting Renault 5s and the like for a few laps of the circuit before official praccy began. They were more than bad, they were awful.) As to damping, as I say, I have moved miles away from the stock setups in N2003, at least for the road courses. One of the things I have fiddled with the most is damping. You can get tons more grip with softer damping, but at the cost of horrible lag in transitions, thanks to the mile-high Cgs. On the tracks with simple (not compound or "Ess") turns, you can go way soft. But that trick won't work in the Esses at Riverside, Sears, or anywhere at the Nurburgring. As usual, Papy has done a better job of physics modeling than anybody. If they did a game with street cars, unless they were modeling supertuner Vettes like Lingenfelter's or Callaway's, you wouldn't wanna drive them. "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bc62sh$flmi4$[email hidden]... > All true if you are comparing them to other race cars, but again my pointis > that they can still whoop just about anything you can drive on the street. > In all the categories you mentioned except weight they are superior to the > latest Corvettes, Vipers, and Porsche Turbos, and even in the weight > category they are only about 100 lbs. off. This is why it seems to melike > they should feel more racy than they do in the game. They should feel at > least as good as a simulated Viper, for example. About the only reason I > can think of that they wouldn't is that they are also heavily overdamped, > far more than anything anybody would use on the street, and that perhapsis > why the chassis responds so slowly, not due to weight but due to damping. > It might be interesting to try reducing the damping on a road course tosee

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> how it compares. Someday, when I get the time... > > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:SVtFa.29385$[email hidden]... > > The difference is in the tires - Cup cars have really skimpy contact > patches > > relative to their weight. And very little downforce. And a relatively > high > > center of gravity. And fairly low drag. And a decidedly un-racy weight > > distribution. All of which makes them...well, Cup cars. I had no > interest > > in them until all these road courses came out. The amazing advances in > the > > physics/tire modeling between GPL and N2003 allow you to get a real feel > for > > how they might handle in real life. Not like conventional race cars, > > fersure, but they're a pure joy to wrestle around a typical 'handling' > > course like Zandy, Mosport, Ste. Jovite, or the Rings (O and Nurby).

Less > > illuminating are the 'stab-it-and-steer-it' tracks like Elkhart,Surfers, > > Long Beach, and Cleveland. I'm having a ball.... > > > > P.S. I've totally abandoned the setups that came with the road coursesand > > am applying everything I've ever learned from tweaking GPL setups overthe > > years. It's to Papy's further credit that N2003's Cup cars, cumbersome > > dinosaurs that they are, respond so vividly to subtle changes in the > setups. > > > >

Steve Smith wrote:

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> > Apples & oranges. Having spent years trying to drive street cars at racing > speeds on race tracks (what was I thinking?) when I was road-testing cars > for Car and Driver, I can assure you that even Corvettes and Vipers are not > much fun anywhere near their limit. Or mine. Using Denis Jenkinson's > "tenths" param, I doubt that I was ever comfortable over 5 or 6 tenths in > *any* road car, including Porsches and Ferraris. I doubt that it would make > an interesting sim. (Even Papyrus gave up on the idea. GPL was planned > with a road car in addition to the F1/F2/F3 cars, modeling the habit of top > drivers renting Renault 5s and the like for a few laps of the circuit before > official praccy began. They were more than bad, they were awful.)

Interesting tidbit, haven't heard about this before, or forgotten all about, which is a distinct possibility of course.... Any other little stories you can share about the development of GPL...."GPL, the story behind the scenes or" or something like that, preferably without Papy/Sierra/Vivendi suing your ass off ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Have you tried softer damping with stiffer springs and bars? Not sure how stiff you would have to go, but if you were able to limit the pitch and roll sufficiently with springs and bars and then soften up the damping enough to let the chassis respond a little more quickly it seems like it should feel better than the current road course setups do. Now whether you would still get good lap times is another question entirely... "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iyHFa.45882$[email hidden]... > > As to damping, as I say, I have moved miles away from the stock setups in > N2003, at least for the road courses. One of the things I have fiddledwith > the most is damping. You can get tons more grip with softer damping, butat > the cost of horrible lag in transitions, thanks to the mile-high Cgs. On > the tracks with simple (not compound or "Ess") turns, you can go way soft. > But that trick won't work in the Esses at Riverside, Sears, or anywhere at > the Nurburgring. >

Softer damping prevents spiking outside the traction circle when the car starts to roll - it takes a while to squish them to full jounce. It also lets the inside tire droop to full jounce faster. But it feels sloppy. I use springs along with all those NASCAR weight shifts to move the temps around until they're more or less even. I'm way softer than the default, but the car rarely bottoms (they have no bump stops) except when it flies (at Nurby) or gets light (last corner @ Ste. Jovite), I use the bars to balance the car (along with the aero--even changing the grille tape affects handling), and also to move the heat where I want it. And to tighten up the response in Ess turns. I'm thinking of writing a road-racer's guide to NASCAR setups. Whaddaya think? "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bc8814$ghrh8$[email hidden]... > Have you tried softer damping with stiffer springs and bars? Not sure how > stiff you would have to go, but if you were able to limit the pitch androll > sufficiently with springs and bars and then soften up the damping enoughto > let the chassis respond a little more quickly it seems like it should feel > better than the current road course setups do. Now whether you wouldstill > get good lap times is another question entirely... > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:iyHFa.45882$[email hidden]... > > > > As to damping, as I say, I have moved miles away from the stock setupsin > > N2003, at least for the road courses. One of the things I have fiddled > with > > the most is damping. You can get tons more grip with softer damping,but > at > > the cost of horrible lag in transitions, thanks to the mile-high Cgs.On > > the tracks with simple (not compound or "Ess") turns, you can go waysoft. > > But that trick won't work in the Esses at Riverside, Sears, or anywhereat > > the Nurburgring. > > > >

I've revealed far more than I suppose I should (I mean, I did sign an NDA), but always at the bottom on old threads, on the theory that the legal eagles get bored early on and don't follow the threads to the bitter end. What mainly characterized the beta phase in GPL were ongoing arguments over how much control to give the player. Some of the people then at Papy wanted the pgm. to control every aspect of gameplay, like forcing the player to "graduate" from F3 to F2 to F1. The most heated discussions were over the adaptive AI (the faster you got, the faster they went). Most of the beta team were in favor of an AI-strength slider, such as had been in the IndyCar games (by editing the RELS in a text file) and what is now implemented in NASCAR (where you have a choice between automatic or manually-selected AI strength, and a toggle for adaptive AI speeds, like what you got in Need for Speed since abt. NfS3). We lost. "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Steve Smith wrote: > > > > Apples & oranges. Having spent years trying to drive street cars atracing > > speeds on race tracks (what was I thinking?) when I was road-testingcars > > for Car and Driver, I can assure you that even Corvettes and Vipers arenot > > much fun anywhere near their limit. Or mine. Using Denis Jenkinson's > > "tenths" param, I doubt that I was ever comfortable over 5 or 6 tenthsin > > *any* road car, including Porsches and Ferraris. I doubt that it wouldmake > > an interesting sim. (Even Papyrus gave up on the idea. GPL was planned > > with a road car in addition to the F1/F2/F3 cars, modeling the habit oftop > > drivers renting Renault 5s and the like for a few laps of the circuitbefore

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> > official praccy began. They were more than bad, they were awful.) > > Interesting tidbit, haven't heard about this before, or forgotten all > about, which is a distinct possibility of course.... > > Any other little stories you can share about the development of > GPL...."GPL, the story behind the scenes or" or something like that, > preferably without Papy/Sierra/Vivendi suing your ass off ? > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "goyl at nettx dot no" > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

"Steve Smith" > > I'm thinking of writing a road-racer's guide to NASCAR setups. > Whaddaya think? I think that is a spectacular idea. Too many times I've dcwnloaded and printed and saved huge setup guides that really didn't apply to my racing sims at all. Since I've been pretty much away from Papyrus sims for the last year or two...a nice guide EXPLAINING a road course setup would be very valuable. dave henrie (of course I should note that reading your Indycar2 book till the paper was almost worn away didn't make me any faster there....)

> > I'm thinking of writing a road-racer's guide to NASCAR setups. Whaddaya > think? > That would be the coolest thing since,,, well ,,,, four-wheel drift :)

That would be, as we old blokes here in the home say, the bees knees, Steve. (Just make sure that when you publish it's in large print, please. :) ) Bruce. "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ujPFa.33603$[email hidden]...

Oopsies! <<or gets light (last corner @ Ste. Jovite)>> I meant to say gets *heavy* as the cars do entering Namerow, as that last turn is called. Help, I'm scrolling off the bottom of the page! "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ujPFa.33603$[email hidden]...

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> Softer damping prevents spiking outside the traction circle when the car > starts to roll - it takes a while to squish them to full jounce. It also > lets the inside tire droop to full jounce faster. But it feels sloppy. > > I use springs along with all those NASCAR weight shifts to move the temps > around until they're more or less even. I'm way softer than the default, > but the car rarely bottoms (they have no bump stops) except when it flies > (at Nurby) or gets light (last corner @ Ste. Jovite), > > I use the bars to balance the car (along with the aero--even changing the > grille tape affects handling), and also to move the heat where I want it. > And to tighten up the response in Ess turns. > > I'm thinking of writing a road-racer's guide to NASCAR setups. Whaddaya > think? > > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:bc8814$ghrh8$[email hidden]... > > Have you tried softer damping with stiffer springs and bars? Not sure

how > > stiff you would have to go, but if you were able to limit the pitch and > roll > > sufficiently with springs and bars and then soften up the damping enough > to > > let the chassis respond a little more quickly it seems like it shouldfeel

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> > better than the current road course setups do. Now whether you would > still > > get good lap times is another question entirely... > > > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:iyHFa.45882$[email hidden]... > > > > > > As to damping, as I say, I have moved miles away from the stock setups > in > > > N2003, at least for the road courses. One of the things I have

fiddled

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> > with > > > the most is damping. You can get tons more grip with softer damping, > but > > at > > > the cost of horrible lag in transitions, thanks to the mile-high Cgs. > On > > > the tracks with simple (not compound or "Ess") turns, you can go way > soft. > > > But that trick won't work in the Esses at Riverside, Sears, or

anywhere

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> at > > > the Nurburgring. > > > > > > > > >

Thanks for yer support, guys! "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > That would be, as we old blokes here in the home say, the bees knees,Steve.

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> (Just make sure that when you publish it's in large print, please. :) ) > > Bruce. > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ujPFa.33603$[email hidden]... > > > >

Steve Smith wrote:

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> > I've revealed far more than I suppose I should (I mean, I did sign an NDA), > but always at the bottom on old threads, on the theory that the legal eagles > get bored early on and don't follow the threads to the bitter end. > > What mainly characterized the beta phase in GPL were ongoing arguments over > how much control to give the player. Some of the people then at Papy wanted > the pgm. to control every aspect of gameplay, like forcing the player to > "graduate" from F3 to F2 to F1. The most heated discussions were over the > adaptive AI (the faster you got, the faster they went). Most of the beta > team were in favor of an AI-strength slider, such as had been in the IndyCar > games (by editing the RELS in a text file) and what is now implemented in > NASCAR (where you have a choice between automatic or manually-selected AI > strength, and a toggle for adaptive AI speeds, like what you got in Need for > Speed since abt. NfS3). We lost.

Oh well....:-) But I think it would be a neat idea to "publish" such a story anyways, they always make a movie about making the movie, why not having someone writing the story about making the game ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Steve Smith wrote: > > I'm thinking of writing a road-racer's guide to NASCAR setups. Whaddaya > think? > That would be great! Also, nice seeing you on track at Mosport last night. :-) -jde

Thanks, J.D. Nice seeing you too...even if it only was your rapidly dwindling taillights after the first lap or two. --Steve "J.D. Ellis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3ee9e1f6$0$4240$[email hidden]...

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> Steve Smith wrote: > > > > I'm thinking of writing a road-racer's guide to NASCAR setups. Whaddaya > > think? > > > > That would be great! > > Also, nice seeing you on track at Mosport last night. :-) > > -jde > > >

"Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iyHFa.45882$[email hidden]... > > As usual, Papy has done a better job of physics modeling than anybody. If > they did a game with street cars, unless they were modeling supertuner > Vettes like Lingenfelter's or Callaway's, you wouldn't wanna drive them. > Question. What tuning does Lingenfelter even do to a Vette's suspension? I know he makes them go fast (well, his shop does, AFAIK he is still in a semi-comatose state and I haven't been updated since I got my Z06 back from them a month or so ago). Just curious as the blower upgrade that they do to new Z-06's is amazing. 520 bhp in a street legal car is more fun now than in the 60s when all the cars were whales except the pony cars. You are correct about not really pushing them though. Even with the hood mod to get the magna-charger under it, the cowl shake alone is scary above 150mph. So even they aren't very raceable out of the shop except in maybe drag racing venues. I would be hard pressed to push my Vette at Sears as hard as I do a (virtual) Cup car, fer sure.

Well, Lingenfelter is/was mainly an engine guy, but you'd have to be pretty stupid to double a Vette's horsepower and leave it with the stock boulevard suspension and brakes. Oopsies! I'm not stepping on any toes, am I? The real question is why won't Car and Driver (my old alma mater) road test any more Callaways? Answer: because every time they get a Callaway doing a ton and a quarter, ton and a half, something awful happens. Stuff fails, breaks, falls off, something. Scared the whee outta everybody on staff. Now they won't touch 'em. (OTOH, I like Reeves' workmanship. It could be C/D is breaking it. I had a Porsche guy show me what Don Sherman, a previous Editor, had done to the spider gears on an accel. run. Criminal. Sherman just laughed and walked away.) "SimRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:EMqHa.66975$[email hidden]... > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:iyHFa.45882$[email hidden]... > > > > As usual, Papy has done a better job of physics modeling than anybody.If

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> > they did a game with street cars, unless they were modeling supertuner > > Vettes like Lingenfelter's or Callaway's, you wouldn't wanna drive them. > > > > Question. What tuning does Lingenfelter even do to a Vette's suspension? I > know he makes them go fast (well, his shop does, AFAIK he is still in a > semi-comatose state and I haven't been updated since I got my Z06 back

from

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> them a month or so ago). > > Just curious as the blower upgrade that they do to new Z-06's is amazing. > 520 bhp in a street legal car is more fun now than in the 60s when all the > cars were whales except the pony cars. You are correct about not really > pushing them though. Even with the hood mod to get the magna-charger under > it, the cowl shake alone is scary above 150mph. So even they aren't very > raceable out of the shop except in maybe drag racing venues. I would be

hard > pressed to push my Vette at Sears as hard as I do a (virtual) Cup car, fer > sure. > >

"Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fOtHa.92976$[email hidden]... > Well, Lingenfelter is/was mainly an engine guy, but you'd have to bepretty > stupid to double a Vette's horsepower and leave it with the stockboulevard > suspension and brakes. Oopsies! I'm not stepping on any toes, am I? > > The real question is why won't Car and Driver (my old alma mater) roadtest > any more Callaways? Answer: because every time they get a Callaway doinga > ton and a quarter, ton and a half, something awful happens. Stuff fails, > breaks, falls off, something. Scared the whee outta everybody on staff. > Now they won't touch 'em. (OTOH, I like Reeves' workmanship. It could be > C/D is breaking it. I had a Porsche guy show me what Don Sherman, a > previous Editor, had done to the spider gears on an accel. run. Criminal. > Sherman just laughed and walked away.) No, you ain't stepping on my toes. I knew all they offered me was driveline improvements, which they executed excellently I may add. Then again, I didn't hop it up to race it, I just did it to do it. It merges onto freeways and can pass several cars in a short order on two lane blacktops in very short order now though! LOL! And I don't know why they don't review Callaways cars any longer. I know when I read about the Sledgehammer YEARS ago, that the guy in the seat for the test run I read about was, you guessed it, John Lingenfelter, while he was still with Reeves' shop. AND, as you called it, stuff kept breaking on the car during the runs. Before his drag racing wreck wreck last year, I remember that he had test run one of his big block turbo C5's for Motor Trend or someone and had run it up over 200 mph on this test track with a standard 5 point harness and a helmet, no bars, no fire system, nadda. Guy has balls, I'll give him that. Good news was, once the photo shoot and hot runs were finished, he apparently turned it over to an employee to drive back to his shop, so apparently nothing broke on it... :-)

"SimRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5jMHa.111007$[email hidden]... You back agin, hhmmmmmmm..............................?