Rascar: Sears Point

I hope the turnout isn't low this week because we are on a road course. I think Sears Point is much more fun in N2K3. Anyway, so what is a competitive lap for a non-alien with the fast setup? I turned about 15-20 laps last night with a fast lap of 1:18.7 and most laps in the 1:19s. I plan on getting in some more practice before Saturday. Seems like there is much more grip than in N2K2. I was happy that I didn't spin at all and only had two short offs. Looking forward to racing Saturday, even with John. ;) Kyle

In article <%VwIa.4361$[email hidden]>, res1dja7 @REMOVEverizon.net says... > I hope the turnout isn't low this week because we are on a road course. I > think Sears Point is much more fun in N2K3. I hope the poor showings at Silverstone (7 drivers) and Monza (only 4 drivers) aren't going to be the indicators. > Anyway, so what is a competitive > lap for a non-alien with the fast setup? I turned about 15-20 laps last > night with a fast lap of 1:18.7 and most laps in the 1:19s. I plan on > getting in some more practice before Saturday. Seems like there is much more > grip than in N2K2. I was happy that I didn't spin at all and only had two > short offs. My fastest lap is 1:16.4, most are 1:17, with a few dipping into 1:18. I don't want to practice too much because the more I do, the more likely it is that I won't finish the race. > Looking forward to racing Saturday, even with John. ;) :)

"John Simmons" wrote... > <snip> > I don't want to practice too much because the more > I do, the more likely it is that I won't finish the > race. Yeah, don't put too many miles on that engine, buddy. <g> Jan. =---

"Kyle Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%VwIa.4361$[email hidden]... : I hope the turnout isn't low this week because we are on a road course. I : think Sears Point is much more fun in N2K3. Anyway, so what is a competitive : lap for a non-alien with the fast setup? I turned about 15-20 laps last : night with a fast lap of 1:18.7 and most laps in the 1:19s. I plan on : getting in some more practice before Saturday. Seems like there is much more : grip than in N2K2. I was happy that I didn't spin at all and only had two : short offs. Looking forward to racing Saturday, even with John. ;) : : Kyle : : Well, my times are terrible, I will be more like a rolling chicane here but plan on attending. I have the next two days off and will be running a lot of laps. Of course as a rookie I need to get as many as possible in. Sure would be nice to have the flow of this track down by race time. I would have to agree that I have had more success in this sim than than NR2. -- McWhom -----------------------------------------------------------------

I can't remember if you guys run the fixed setup or not.....but what counts at Infineon is what you average, lap time wise....over the complete tire run.....not what your fast laps are. Stay smooth, stay within your limits, don't go off-course and if back-markers will hold their normal race line when being passed......you should have a good result finish. You guys have been racing together long enough....this shouldn't be a problem, I would think. Anyone capable of running sub-20's....has learned the racing line well enough. The trick....is being able to maintain your concentration well enough and long enough.....to run 30 laps or so at a time without mistakes. That is more of a challenge at Infineon than at most other tracks......it is also something you pretty much can't practice doing - you either can or can't! This is probably the same advice being given to a lot of real world drivers just about now......as the NASCAR guys get ready for qualifying in a few hours. It applies equally to sim racing at Infineon. Have fun.... Tom "Kyle Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%VwIa.4361$[email hidden]... > I hope the turnout isn't low this week because we are on a road course. I > think Sears Point is much more fun in N2K3. Anyway, so what is acompetitive > lap for a non-alien with the fast setup? I turned about 15-20 laps last > night with a fast lap of 1:18.7 and most laps in the 1:19s. I plan on > getting in some more practice before Saturday. Seems like there is muchmore > grip than in N2K2. I was happy that I didn't spin at all and only had two > short offs. Looking forward to racing Saturday, even with John. ;) > > Kyle > >

"Tom Pabst"

Quoted text (7 lines)

> more >> grip than in N2K2. I was happy that I didn't spin at all and only had >> two short offs. Looking forward to racing Saturday, even with John. >> ;) >> >> Kyle >>

Hey Tom, this is a thread Hijacking. The RSDG team have a mod released with the old Sears Point layout included. At the real SP, on the old section which carosels down the hill to the dragstrip, is that turn off- camber or cambered into the inside of the track...I'm having a dickens of a time getting around that... dave henrie

I should be racing this week. "Kyle Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%VwIa.4361$[email hidden]... > I hope the turnout isn't low this week because we are on a road course. I > think Sears Point is much more fun in N2K3. Anyway, so what is acompetitive > lap for a non-alien with the fast setup? I turned about 15-20 laps last > night with a fast lap of 1:18.7 and most laps in the 1:19s. I plan on > getting in some more practice before Saturday. Seems like there is muchmore

Quoted text (7 lines)

> grip than in N2K2. I was happy that I didn't spin at all and only had two > short offs. Looking forward to racing Saturday, even with John. ;) > > Kyle > > >

On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:49:08 GMT, Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (16 lines)

>"Tom Pabst" >> more >>> grip than in N2K2. I was happy that I didn't spin at all and only had >>> two short offs. Looking forward to racing Saturday, even with John. >>> ;) >>> >>> Kyle >>> > > > Hey Tom, this is a thread Hijacking. The RSDG team have a mod released >with the old Sears Point layout included. At the real SP, on the old >section which carosels down the hill to the dragstrip, is that turn off- >camber or cambered into the inside of the track...I'm having a dickens of a >time getting around that... >dave henrie

Link? John DiFool

John DiFool <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted text (26 lines)

> On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:49:08 GMT, Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> > wrote: > >>"Tom Pabst" >>> more >>>> grip than in N2K2. I was happy that I didn't spin at all and only >>>> had two short offs. Looking forward to racing Saturday, even with >>>> John. ;) >>>> >>>> Kyle >>>> >> >> >> Hey Tom, this is a thread Hijacking. The RSDG team have a mod >> released >>with the old Sears Point layout included. At the real SP, on the old >>section which carosels down the hill to the dragstrip, is that turn >>off- camber or cambered into the inside of the track...I'm having a >>dickens of a time getting around that... >>dave henrie > > Link? > > John DiFool > >

www.rsdg.net but it's for F1 2k2 and thier isp shut them down cuz of overuse this week. I haven't checked if it's back up. Speedsims.com also should have it..SCR or Sports Car Racing for..the EA/ISI sim not Papyrus...see I told you it was a thread hijacking... dave henrie

Hey Dave.... Did you lose my email address? If want to email me about this, that's great. I'm not familiar with "RSDG"......but I probably should be. Is that the mod running GT cars in F1-2002? Car physics could be an issue....and the track they used to convert.....which version of Papy's NASCAR sim (was it N-99 or N-2, or ?). On the real track......the carousel (T-6) is flat at the top (which is also its braking zone) after you crest the hill. Then, it goes on camber through the entry-middle section....than gradually rolls to flat...then off camber at the exit. Staying out in the center of the track....through the core part of the carousel.....is the key to being fast through there. I have actually seen WC cars on the middle-outside of that turn....drive right by somebody on the inside of the turn! Its a great passing zone if you know how to drive this section....and this is why the WC drivers hated to see this part of the track disappear when the WC Chute was constructed in 1998. I can tell you how to run this section of the track on the real road course with the carousel (the SCCA and ALMS events all run the old original road course). I'll assume you are in some sort of a GT race car (heavier than an open wheel....which I'll tell you the difference for a light open-wheel car at the end): a. Technically, this "carousel turn" is also known as Turn-6 (T-6)....I'm more used to calling it that and its easier to type, so I'll use that term. T-5 is the big right hand, sweeping turn leading up to it (and is important to how fast you are through T-6).....T-4 is the 110 degree sharp right hander after coming down the hill from T-3a. Got our turns sorted? b. Accelerating out of T-4.....either late apex the T-5 sweeper or stay in the middle of the track all the way through it. This will cost you a couple mph through there, but that's okay...it will be more than made up as you go through the carousel. The reason for the late apex in T-5....is it allows you to get fully over to the far right side of the track as you approach (going up hill) the T-6 braking zone (if you apex T-5 normally, you can't get over to the right side of the track with a "settled in" race car by the time you need to be initiating the braking sequence). c. Now, here's the tricky part in a real race car (because if you miss this...you are going into the tire barriers for sure)....but not so hard in a sim car (no "price" for crashing...LOL)....as you are coming up the hill to T-6....there's a crest at the top.......you want to brake later than you would if you wanted all your braking done by the time you hit the crest. This is not obvious.....and this is why the local driver's with local knowledge are so much faster through this part of the course. All the novice drivers.....think they need to have all their braking done before they crest over the hill and down into the carousel. That's a real safe way to get through here.....but also very slow! Now....you have to adjust this for the weight and speed (and size of brakes) for you race car......but try to make it so you get about 80% of braking down before you crest the hill......THEN YOU MUST GET OFF YOUR BRAKES.....as you go over the crest. Time it as the car comes down....and "settles"........ that you are back on the brakes hard....to finish the 20% of braking you have left to do (all this remaining braking must be after the car settles down from cresting the hill....and still up at the top of the carousel where it is neutral and flat so you can finish braking before you rotate into the turn itself)! Does this make sense? Its a tricky timing thing...but not too hard to learn (especially if you can afford to slam the tire barriers a few dozen times learning how to do this). The key is when you get off the brakes....and not getting back on them before the car is back on its weight (or you will get real wheel, "wheel hop" big time and spin instantly). d. Okay....braking is done and now you are entering the carousel entry-middle section....which is now rotating on camber. You will tend to want to move to the inside of the turn as you feel the car go to positive camber. Don't do it! Resist the temptation and stay out in the middle to outside of the turn. Because of the bigger turning radius....you can carry about 8 to 10 mph more speed (than if you were on the inside of the turn)......then as you pass under the footbridge and see the bottom of the turn (which is where it intersects back into the drag strip)......start to work the car to the inside so you apex the exit area really late! But...even though you are late on the exit apex.....the car is pointed more up track so you can actually get on the throttle much sooner than if you had come through the carousel turn on the inside. Also....mistake wise.....if you are in the inside and only slightly too fast.....you will push out at the exit because the exit is off camber (remember?).......and then your speed up into T-7 is just dead meat! So Dave....that's how to drive the real Sears Point carousel. Give it a try....who knows if this "real world" modeling is correct in the sim you are running....but maybe you'll to modify what I've told you here......??? Regards, Tom "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (11 lines)

> "Tom Pabst" > > more > >> grip than in N2K2. I was happy that I didn't spin at all and only had > >> two short offs. Looking forward to racing Saturday, even with John. > >> ;) > >> > >> Kyle > >> > > > Hey Tom, this is a thread Hijacking. The RSDG team have a mod

released > with the old Sears Point layout included. At the real SP, on the old > section which carosels down the hill to the dragstrip, is that turn off- > camber or cambered into the inside of the track...I'm having a dickens ofa > time getting around that... > dave henrie

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:UPKIa.1002567$OV.1106988@rwcrnsc54: Thanks...that answers two questions..they did a great job with the crest before turn 6, but then it feels off camber to me(car is sent to the outside if you are not already turned-in)...I'm the guy having to brake before the crest and then coasting through the t-6 entry. I'll go over this as best I can ...another printed sheet from Tom P thanks. The track is a mod of the ISI Sears Point track. I'm assuming they started with the EA/ISI track and opened up the interior. Sure isn't as easy as I remember back with N2/N99. The track is included in the SCR mod by RSDG. WHich is located at: www.rsdg.net or speedsims.com n

I don't think much of the Fast setup on this one. It feels awfully tight, and 2nd gear is a notch off. You have to shift WAY too much or rev the hell out of the engine. -Larry "Kyle Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%VwIa.4361$[email hidden]... > I hope the turnout isn't low this week because we are on a road course. I > think Sears Point is much more fun in N2K3. Anyway, so what is acompetitive > lap for a non-alien with the fast setup? I turned about 15-20 laps last > night with a fast lap of 1:18.7 and most laps in the 1:19s. I plan on > getting in some more practice before Saturday. Seems like there is muchmore > grip than in N2K2. I was happy that I didn't spin at all and only had two > short offs. Looking forward to racing Saturday, even with John. ;) > > Kyle > >

Oh, and you are a good 5 seconds faster than me :) -Larry "Kyle Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%VwIa.4361$[email hidden]... > I hope the turnout isn't low this week because we are on a road course. I > think Sears Point is much more fun in N2K3. Anyway, so what is acompetitive > lap for a non-alien with the fast setup? I turned about 15-20 laps last > night with a fast lap of 1:18.7 and most laps in the 1:19s. I plan on > getting in some more practice before Saturday. Seems like there is muchmore > grip than in N2K2. I was happy that I didn't spin at all and only had two > short offs. Looking forward to racing Saturday, even with John. ;) > > Kyle > >

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:P4VIa.5091$[email hidden]... > I don't think much of the Fast setup on this one. It feels awfully tight, > and 2nd gear is a notch off. You have to shift WAY too much or rev thehell > out of the engine. I would change the gearing a bit if I could too. I am all over the rev limiter in second going into turns 4 and 7. The setup doesn't really feel too tight to me. You definitely have to be smooth and hit the marks here. Corner entry is key. I turned about 30 or so more laps and got my fast time down to a 1:16.9 and I can consistently lap in the 1:18s. My fastest lap was my smoothest lap. If I try to hot lap it I am way slower. Should be fun this afternoon. Hopefully we have a good turnout. Kyle

Thanks for the referring info to RSDG, Dave! I bookmarked the page and will visit them when I get this Infineon track update done (for NASCAR 2003). Sorry for the long and wordy post....I figured you could sort through it and figure it out. Hope it works for you? TP "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (17 lines)

> "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:UPKIa.1002567$OV.1106988@rwcrnsc54: > > > Thanks...that answers two questions..they did a great job with the crest > before turn 6, but then it feels off camber to me(car is sent to the > outside if you are not already turned-in)...I'm the guy having to brake > before the crest and then coasting through the t-6 entry. I'll go over > this as best I can ...another printed sheet from Tom P thanks. > The track is a mod of the ISI Sears Point track. I'm assuming they > started with the EA/ISI track and opened up the interior. Sure isn't as > easy as I remember back with N2/N99. > > The track is included in the SCR mod by RSDG. WHich is located at: > www.rsdg.net or speedsims.com > > n

On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:51:04 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (19 lines)

>In article <%VwIa.4361$[email hidden]>, res1dja7 >@REMOVEverizon.net says... >> I hope the turnout isn't low this week because we are on a road course. I >> think Sears Point is much more fun in N2K3. > >I hope the poor showings at Silverstone (7 drivers) and Monza (only 4 >drivers) aren't going to be the indicators. > >> Anyway, so what is a competitive >> lap for a non-alien with the fast setup? I turned about 15-20 laps last >> night with a fast lap of 1:18.7 and most laps in the 1:19s. I plan on >> getting in some more practice before Saturday. Seems like there is much more >> grip than in N2K2. I was happy that I didn't spin at all and only had two >> short offs. > >My fastest lap is 1:16.4, most are 1:17, with a few dipping into >1:18. I don't want to practice too much because the more I do, the >more likely it is that I won't finish the race. >

Those are some good laps John. Actually I am impressed with anyone that can turn a lap at this track without ending up in the sand. I have never been able to figure this track out. Maybe it is partly because I drive using cockpit view and every freaking corner is a blind corner.... might as well drive with my eyes shut and just go on memory. I think I will sit this one out. I am just getting over the flu so I feal kinda drained and got Zero practice time. Besides, I absolutely hate Sears Point. I love the Glen, but hate Sears. Brian Oster

>I think I will sit this one out. Ditto. Different reason though. this is the first day in about 3 weeks that it hasn't rained in Alabama. Working on the jungle that has grown up. But I do hate this track too. Dan

In article <[email hidden]>, bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net says...

Quoted text (24 lines)

> On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:51:04 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >In article <%VwIa.4361$[email hidden]>, res1dja7 > >@REMOVEverizon.net says... > >> I hope the turnout isn't low this week because we are on a road course. I > >> think Sears Point is much more fun in N2K3. > > > >I hope the poor showings at Silverstone (7 drivers) and Monza (only 4 > >drivers) aren't going to be the indicators. > > > >> Anyway, so what is a competitive > >> lap for a non-alien with the fast setup? I turned about 15-20 laps last > >> night with a fast lap of 1:18.7 and most laps in the 1:19s. I plan on > >> getting in some more practice before Saturday. Seems like there is much more > >> grip than in N2K2. I was happy that I didn't spin at all and only had two > >> short offs. > > > >My fastest lap is 1:16.4, most are 1:17, with a few dipping into > >1:18. I don't want to practice too much because the more I do, the > >more likely it is that I won't finish the race. > > > > Those are some good laps John. Actually I am impressed with anyone > that can turn a lap at this track without ending up in the sand.

You'd be really impressed with Neil then - he turned 1:14's - consistently.

"John Simmons" wrote... > <snip> > You'd be really impressed with Neil then - he > turned 1:14's - consistently. Cue X-Files music... Jan. <g> =---

In article <UPKIa.1002567$OV.1106988@rwcrnsc54>, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (23 lines)

>c. Now, here's the tricky part in a real race car (because if you miss >this...you are going into the tire barriers for sure)....but not so hard in >a sim car (no "price" for crashing...LOL)....as you are coming up the hill >to T-6....there's a crest at the top.......you want to brake later than you >would if you wanted all your braking done by the time you hit the crest. >This is not obvious.....and this is why the local driver's with local >knowledge are so much faster through this part of the course. All the >novice drivers.....think they need to have all their braking done before >they crest over the hill and down into the carousel. That's a real safe way >to get through here.....but also very slow! Now....you have to adjust this >for the weight and speed (and size of brakes) for you race car......but try >to make it so you get about 80% of braking down before you crest the >hill......THEN YOU MUST GET OFF YOUR BRAKES.....as you go over the crest. >Time it as the car comes down....and "settles"........ that you are back on >the brakes hard....to finish the 20% of braking you have left to do (all >this remaining braking must be after the car settles down from cresting the >hill....and still up at the top of the carousel where it is neutral and flat >so you can finish braking before you rotate into the turn itself)! Does >this make sense? Its a tricky timing thing...but not too hard to learn >(especially if you can afford to slam the tire barriers a few dozen times >learning how to do this). The key is when you get off the brakes....and not >getting back on them before the car is back on its weight (or you will get >real wheel, "wheel hop" big time and spin instantly).

That sounds like the braking zone on the 1967 Watkins Glen course... Even though I have *no* idea what turn at Sears Point(sorry, Infineon) you're talking about. I don't know that track layout worth a DAMN... Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Oster <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> writes: >I think I will sit this one out. I am just getting over the flu so I >feal kinda drained and got Zero practice time. Besides, I absolutely >hate Sears Point. I love the Glen, but hate Sears. > Me too, hence my absence... Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <yqhJa.62707$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (7 lines)

>"John Simmons" wrote... >> <snip> >> You'd be really impressed with Neil then - he >> turned 1:14's - consistently. > >Cue X-Files music... >

I was *just* about to say "Neil's a fucking ALIEN..."<g> I had to race against him in the MoG league. Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote: > That sounds like the braking zone on the 1967 Watkins Glen course... Even > though I have *no* idea what turn at Sears Point(sorry, Infineon) you're > talking about. I don't know that track layout worth a DAMN... Eldred: It's the Carousel in the "infield section" that's no longer used by NASCAR. -jde

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tqHIa.53860$[email hidden]... > I can't remember if you guys run the fixed setup or not.....but whatcounts

Quoted text (11 lines)

> at Infineon is what you average, lap time wise....over the complete tire > run.....not what your fast laps are. > > Stay smooth, stay within your limits, don't go off-course and if > back-markers will hold their normal race line when being passed......you > should have a good result finish. You guys have been racing together long > enough....this shouldn't be a problem, I would think. > > Anyone capable of running sub-20's....has learned the racing line well > enough. The trick....is being able to maintain your concentration well > enough and long enough.....to run 30 laps or so at a time without

mistakes. > That is more of a challenge at Infineon than at most other tracks......itis > also something you pretty much can't practice doing - you either can or > can't! > > This is probably the same advice being given to a lot of real worlddrivers

Quoted text (7 lines)

> just about now......as the NASCAR guys get ready for qualifying in a few > hours. It applies equally to sim racing at Infineon. > > Have fun.... > > Tom >

I'm not in RASCAR, nor any league at the moment, but I agree with this whole heartedly (even though the race, both real and virtual has passed now) and that is consistency. I can run 1:17 flats right off pit lane in race trim, but a couple of lapses of the noodle and you're sliding around too much, brushing unmovable things and whatnot. Racing at the roadies is a race of concentration. I try to drive within myself all day, happy in the thoughts that a few aliens will probably (most likely) beat me, but if I can stay on track all day and keep my tires under me, the fenders uncrumpled, and a top 5 is normally in the cards. The best lesson I could offer as a sim-hack is to let anyone that catches you around you until late in the race. Chances are they are either genuinely faster than you OR you will pass them as they work their way back onto the track from the junk in a few laps, having worn/overheated their tires out or lost their concentration OR tried a pass on someone not as level headed as you were to simply let them go. In which case you may be picking up 2 positions...Like DW or someone said yesterday, the roadies are like Darlington in that your biggest race is against the track. Personally, I can't wait until its time for The Glen. AND I miss Portland and Kansas from the old CTS RC days. Those were some cool road courses too IMHO. Real racers CAN turn right, even if the cars weigh too much, don't have enough downforce and the tires are too skinny. LOL!