NASCAR 2003 PATCH readme

Patch Update #2 Steve Myers (Papy Developer) - 11:30am Jun 27, 2003 PST Hi all, Below you will find the readme for the upcoming NR2003 patch. As I am sure you will see, we have made quite a few bug fixes along with adding some features. The patch has been submitted to QA and will be released when they have completed testing it. Steve NASCAR� Racing 2003 Season PATCH README 1.1.0.0 06/25/03 [ To read this file, select Edit/Word Wrap from the menu above ] TABLE OF CONTENTS [1] WHAT THE PATCH FIXES [2] HOW TO INSTALL THE PATCH [3] ADDITIONAL INFORMATION [4] CONTACTING SIERRA a.. *********************************** NOTE: The 1.1.0.0 version of NASCAR� Racing 2003 Season is not multiplayer compatible with previously released versions. As a client you will only be able to see and join 1.1.x.x servers, and similarly as a host only 1.1.x.x clients will be able to see and join your server. Additionally, telemetry gathering programs built for the previously released versions of the game will not be compatible with the 1.1.0.0 version. These utilities will need to be re-linked with the updated papytelemapp.obj that is distributed with the 1.1.0.0 patch. a.. *********************************** [1] WHAT THE PATCH FIXES ==================================== AI: a.. AI cars will now be less likely to retire as a result of suffering damage. CAR FILES: a.. Changed the #155 to a Ford. CAR MODEL: a.. Added jack screw holes to rear window. a.. Fixed incorrect shininess map on steering column. CAR SETUPS: a.. Slight adjustments to the FAST and JASPER setups to account for ride-height and front spring changes. See PHYSICS section below for more details. CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON: a.. Qualifying results and number of poles will now be properly saved in Event Results and Season Standings after a completed qualifying session was restarted. a.. Fixed some minor sorting issues on the Event Results and Season Standings tables. a.. Practice length, Happy Hour length, and the roster name are now properly saved into the season file. CONTROLS: a.. When throttle or brake are assigned to a digital control such as a keyboard key or joystick button, traction control and anti-lock brakes can now be disabled. GARAGE: a.. Car setup ranges are now properly applied as a setup is loaded. This prevents the use of setup files from previous versions which allowed different ranges. MULTIPLAYER: a.. Fixed a bug which prevented in-car chat when the chat filter was disabled. a.. Fixed a bug which prevented bosses from ejecting other clients. a.. The !clear command has been renamed !clear_black so as to not conflict with the various clear password commands. a.. Increased timeout for Sierra.com race list download. a.. Hardcore mode now has separate options for driving aids and visual restrictions. When driving aids are restricted, anti-lock brakes, stability control, steering assistance, and traction control will be disabled for all drivers. a.. Increased race session start countdown from 30 to 60 seconds. a.. Black flags that are issued by an admin or as the result of a poll can now be cleared. a.. Non-animated opponent pit crews can now be seen in multiplayer races. a.. Sierra.com system messages are now properly translated eliminating the cryptic "@#1267ever" and similar messages. PHYSICS: a.. Updated super speedway aero drag and downforce maps based on new data Jasper Motorsports. a.. Extended the non-super speedway aero-downforce and aero-balance maps so that when the car is run very low to the ground an aero understeer problem caused by running off the end of the aero maps is fixed. a.. Softened motion ratios of the front springs based on new data from Jasper Motorsports. Slightly stiffer front springs will be required to get the same front wheelrate as before. Version 1.0 setups will still have the correct wheel rate, their spring rate will be displayed based on the new motion ratio. a.. Slightly reduced front bump camber effects. a.. Front suspension geometry has been reworked to fix a camber fall-off with steering bug. a.. Chassis had too much ground clearance, so bottoming out wouldn't occur when it should. a.. Chassis bottoming out friction is increased. a.. Reduced draft effects. a.. Rear weight bias at restrictor plate tracks is now limited to 50% of the car's minimum weight to match 2003 rule changes. a.. Tire wear is now more affected by running tires hot. a.. Stability Control has been tweaked to affect tire wear. PIT CREW: a.. Pit crew will no longer wave pit sign when you are serving a drive-thru penalty unless you pull into the pit stall area indicating that you actually want to pit (note that the drive-thru penalty will NOT be cleared if you do in fact stop for service). RACE CONTROL: a.. Fixed a bug in Arcade mode which prevented you from being able to clear a drive-thru penalty after speeding in the pits. a.. Penalties for cutting the course are no longer enforced after a car has taken the checkered flag. a.. Qualifying session time will be extended for longer tracks. This will allow the use of 3rd party tracks where qualifying laps previously could not be completed within the game's default session time limit. a.. Caution periods at the short ovals (Bristol, Martinsville, and Richmond) have been extended by an additional lap. a.. Fixed a bug which caused the speed/gear indicator's yellow flag to not reset after a debris caution. a.. Increased caution sensitivity. a.. With damage enabled, debris cautions for single car accidents are now possible. RENDERER: a.. Fixed a bug which could cause low track rail LODs in wide FOV camera views. a.. Greatly reduced framerate impact of advanced "on-car shadows" Graphics options when using the DirectX D3D renderer. a.. Car shadows can now use Shadow Volumes. See Additional Information section below for details. a.. Slight optimization to multi-pass rendering in the DirectX D3D renderer. See Additional Information section below for details. a.. Fixed bug which caused car to car shadows to appear opaque black in the OpenGL renderer. a.. Fixed a bug in the DirectX D3D renderer that for some users would cause a crash at the Eight-Bowl track (this fantasy track is available via a separate track pack download). a.. Fixed a bug in the OpenGL renderer that caused some of the shadows at Las Vegas (76 balls and the scoring tower) to not be cast onto the car. SPOTTER/CREW CHIEF: a.. Added support for "3-wide on the left" and "3-wide on the right" messages. a.. If you are already on pit road, the spotter will no longer remind you to come in and serve a black flag penalty when you cross the start finish line. If you exit pit road without serving the penalty, the reminder message will then be triggered. TELEMETRY: a.. Player car gauge data and opponent car track position information are now available. See "telemetry\papytelemapp.h" and "telemetry\tsample.cpp" for details. TRACK ARTWORK: a.. Fixed a problem with the horizon texture at Darlington when cloudy weather was selected. a.. Fixed a graphical issue that could be seen in the rear-view mirror at Texas. a.. Added missing wall ads back to New Hampshire. TRACK GEOMETRY: a.. Fixed an incorrect extended surface type on the apron at Bristol-Night. TRACK SETTINGS: a.. Increased Bristol, Bristol-Night, and Martinsville pace speeds to 40 mph to prevent passing the pace car while on pit road. a.. Tightened up the qualifying checkpoints for Daytona and Daytona Night. a.. Added a new track.ini setting "track_dir". See section below for details. USER INTERFACE: a.. Fixed scroll bar on Sierra.com available races table. a.. Added a checkbox to the Options screen to disable the menu background animations. a.. Fixed a typo in the garage's transmission ratio pop-up help box. a.. Added "Import" and "Export" buttons to the Opponent Manager Screen. See Additional Information section below for details. a.. Volume of the garage background sound is now properly controlled by the Sound Option screen's "User Interface" slider. a.. Added a display of the total number of servers and players to the Available Races table. a.. Improved scrolling for the driver list table on the Opponent Manager screen. a.. Correct manufacturer car model is now loaded on the post-race newspaper winning screen. a.. Fixed a bug which could cause the displayed calibration values to carry over from one "page" of the controller calibration dialog to another. Note that this was a display-only issue, and in no way had any affect whatsoever on the actual calibration data used by the game. [2] HOW TO INSTALL THE PATCH ==================================== 1. Run the saved patch executable. 2. The patch should automatically detect your NASCAR� Racing 2003 Season installation directory and then begin the patching process. a.. Note that if you have modified any of the game's files using 3rd party utilities, it may be necessary to reinstall the game before the patch can successfully complete its installation. [3] ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ==================================== SHADOW VOLUMES When using the DirectX D3D renderer Car shadows can now be rendered using Shadow Volumes on hardware that supports Stencil Buffers. This feature allows for more realistic car shadows that can be cast on walls. This feature also eliminate the "double-dark" shadows that would be seen when multiple car shadows overlapped. To enable this new feature, you will need to manually edit your PLAYER.INI, changing default "0" to a "1" as shown below: [Graphic Options] enable_ShadowVolumes=1 ; set to 1 to enable shadow volumes CAR MEGA SHADER OPTIMIZATION When using the DirectX D3D renderer multi-pass rendering can now be made more efficient on cards with advanced shader capabilities. To enable this new feature, you will need to manually edit your PLAYER.INI, changing default "0" to a "1" as shown below: [Graphic Options] enable_CarMegaShader=1 ; set to 1 to enable advanced shaders where applicable OPPONENT MANAGER IMPORT & EXPORT BUTTONS You can now import and export car and pitcrew skins directly from the main Opponent Manager screen without entering the paintkit. This allows for the use of "hi-res" textures that previously were only available to advanced users who manually edited MIP files. The texture must be a power of 2 multiple of 512x512 such as 1024x1024. Note that the paintkit is not compatible with these "hi-res" textures. By default texture compression will be enabled when a texture is imported through the Opponent Manager. If you would prefer that the Opponent Manager not compress these textures when they are imported, edit the import_textures_with_compression line in your PLAYER.INI, changing the 1 to a 0: [Opponent Manager] import_textures_with_compression=0 ; Enable texture compression on imported textures. TRACK DIRECTION SETTING There's a new line which can be added the TRACK.INI near where you specify chassis and track types, called "track_dir". A setting of "1" means the track turns left or counter-clockwise only, so the normal "inside=left" and "outside=right" spotter is used, and tires are mounted on the car for turning left. A setting of "-1" means it's a right or clockwise track, so a reversed "outside=left" and "inside=right" spotter is used, and the tires are mounted on opposite sides than a left track. A setting of "0" means the track turns both left and right, so the spotter will only refer to "left" and "right" instead of "inside" and "outside", and only "outside" tires are mounted on the car so it can turn in both directions equally. Note that by default the game assumes a track is a left-hand oval, so for most tracks this setting will be absent. Additionally using "track_type=5" to specify a road course automatically turns on the "left/right" spotter behavior, so you should only need to use the "track_dir=0" if you had a left/right track that you did not want to be counted as a road course (i.e. single-file restarts only, road course Sierra.com ratings, etc.).

In article <3efd7bdd$0$9355$[email hidden]>, tegg02 @optushome.com.au says...

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> > > Patch Update #2 > Steve Myers (Papy Developer) - 11:30am Jun 27, 2003 PST > Hi all, > > Below you will find the readme for the upcoming NR2003 patch. As I am > sure you will see, we have made quite a few bug fixes along with adding some > features. The patch has been submitted to QA and will be released when they > have completed testing it. > > Steve >

Wowsers! They actuyally made changes with modding in mind, such as the track_dir line, and the longer qualifying time to support 3rd party tracks. That is just too cool.

TURN OFF THE RACING LINE IN MULTIPLAYER FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD!!!!! ENOUGH OF THE CHEATING........DRIVE THE TRACK ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!! "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3efd7bdd$0$9355$[email hidden]...

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> > > Patch Update #2 > Steve Myers (Papy Developer) - 11:30am Jun 27, 2003 PST > Hi all, > > Below you will find the readme for the upcoming NR2003 patch. As I

am > sure you will see, we have made quite a few bug fixes along with addingsome > features. The patch has been submitted to QA and will be released whenthey

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> have completed testing it. > > Steve > > NASCAR� Racing 2003 Season PATCH README 1.1.0.0 06/25/03 [ To read > this file, select Edit/Word Wrap from the menu above ] > > TABLE OF CONTENTS > > [1] WHAT THE PATCH FIXES [2] HOW TO INSTALL THE PATCH [3] ADDITIONAL > INFORMATION [4] CONTACTING SIERRA > > > a.. *********************************** > NOTE: The 1.1.0.0 version of NASCAR� Racing 2003 Season is not > multiplayer compatible with previously released versions. As a client you > will only be able to see and join 1.1.x.x servers, and similarly as a host > only 1.1.x.x clients will be able to see and join your server. > > Additionally, telemetry gathering programs built for the previously > released versions of the game will not be compatible with the 1.1.0.0 > version. These utilities will need to be re-linked with the updated > papytelemapp.obj that is distributed with the 1.1.0.0 patch. > > > a.. *********************************** > [1] WHAT THE PATCH FIXES ==================================== > > AI: > > > a.. AI cars will now be less likely to retire as a result of

suffering

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> damage. > CAR FILES: > > > a.. Changed the #155 to a Ford. > CAR MODEL: > > > a.. Added jack screw holes to rear window. > > a.. Fixed incorrect shininess map on steering column. > CAR SETUPS: > > > a.. Slight adjustments to the FAST and JASPER setups to account for > ride-height and front spring changes. See PHYSICS section below for more > details. > CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON: > > > a.. Qualifying results and number of poles will now be properly

saved

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> in Event Results and Season Standings after a completed qualifying session > was restarted. > > a.. Fixed some minor sorting issues on the Event Results and Season > Standings tables. > > a.. Practice length, Happy Hour length, and the roster name are now > properly saved into the season file. > CONTROLS: > > > a.. When throttle or brake are assigned to a digital control such as

a

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> keyboard key or joystick button, traction control and anti-lock brakes can > now be disabled. > GARAGE: > > > a.. Car setup ranges are now properly applied as a setup is loaded. > This prevents the use of setup files from previous versions which allowed > different ranges. > MULTIPLAYER: > > > a.. Fixed a bug which prevented in-car chat when the chat filter was > disabled. > > a.. Fixed a bug which prevented bosses from ejecting other clients. > > a.. The !clear command has been renamed !clear_black so as to not > conflict with the various clear password commands. > > a.. Increased timeout for Sierra.com race list download. > > a.. Hardcore mode now has separate options for driving aids and

visual > restrictions. When driving aids are restricted, anti-lock brakes,stability > control, steering assistance, and traction control will be disabled forall > drivers. > > a.. Increased race session start countdown from 30 to 60 seconds. > > a.. Black flags that are issued by an admin or as the result of apoll > can now be cleared. > > a.. Non-animated opponent pit crews can now be seen in multiplayer > races. > > a.. Sierra.com system messages are now properly translatedeliminating

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> the cryptic "@#1267ever" and similar messages. > PHYSICS: > > > a.. Updated super speedway aero drag and downforce maps based on new > data Jasper Motorsports. > > a.. Extended the non-super speedway aero-downforce and aero-balance > maps so that when the car is run very low to the ground an aero understeer > problem caused by running off the end of the aero maps is fixed. > > a.. Softened motion ratios of the front springs based on new data

from

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> Jasper Motorsports. Slightly stiffer front springs will be required to get > the same front wheelrate as before. Version 1.0 setups will still have the > correct wheel rate, their spring rate will be displayed based on the new > motion ratio. > > a.. Slightly reduced front bump camber effects. > > a.. Front suspension geometry has been reworked to fix a camber > fall-off with steering bug. > > a.. Chassis had too much ground clearance, so bottoming out wouldn't > occur when it should. > > a.. Chassis bottoming out friction is increased. > > a.. Reduced draft effects. > > a.. Rear weight bias at restrictor plate tracks is now limited to

50%

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> of the car's minimum weight to match 2003 rule changes. > > a.. Tire wear is now more affected by running tires hot. > > a.. Stability Control has been tweaked to affect tire wear. > PIT CREW: > > > a.. Pit crew will no longer wave pit sign when you are serving a > drive-thru penalty unless you pull into the pit stall area indicating that > you actually want to pit (note that the drive-thru penalty will NOT be > cleared if you do in fact stop for service). > RACE CONTROL: > > > a.. Fixed a bug in Arcade mode which prevented you from being able

to

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> clear a drive-thru penalty after speeding in the pits. > > a.. Penalties for cutting the course are no longer enforced after a > car has taken the checkered flag. > > a.. Qualifying session time will be extended for longer tracks. This > will allow the use of 3rd party tracks where qualifying laps previously > could not be completed within the game's default session time limit. > > a.. Caution periods at the short ovals (Bristol, Martinsville, and > Richmond) have been extended by an additional lap. > > a.. Fixed a bug which caused the speed/gear indicator's yellow flag

to > not reset after a debris caution. > > a.. Increased caution sensitivity. > > a.. With damage enabled, debris cautions for single car accidentsare

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> now possible. > RENDERER: > > > a.. Fixed a bug which could cause low track rail LODs in wide FOV > camera views. > > a.. Greatly reduced framerate impact of advanced "on-car shadows" > Graphics options when using the DirectX D3D renderer. > > a.. Car shadows can now use Shadow Volumes. See Additional

Information

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> section below for details. > > a.. Slight optimization to multi-pass rendering in the DirectX D3D > renderer. See Additional Information section below for details. > > a.. Fixed bug which caused car to car shadows to appear opaque black > in the OpenGL renderer. > > a.. Fixed a bug in the DirectX D3D renderer that for some users

would > cause a crash at the Eight-Bowl track (this fantasy track is available viaa > separate track pack download). > > a.. Fixed a bug in the OpenGL renderer that caused some of theshadows

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> at Las Vegas (76 balls and the scoring tower) to not be cast onto the car. > SPOTTER/CREW CHIEF: > > > a.. Added support for "3-wide on the left" and "3-wide on the right" > messages. > > a.. If you are already on pit road, the spotter will no longer

remind > you to come in and serve a black flag penalty when you cross the start > finish line. If you exit pit road without serving the penalty, thereminder > message will then be triggered. > TELEMETRY: > > > a.. Player car gauge data and opponent car track positioninformation > are now available. See "telemetry\papytelemapp.h" and > "telemetry\tsample.cpp" for details. > TRACK ARTWORK: > > > a.. Fixed a problem with the horizon texture at Darlington whencloudy > weather was selected. > > a.. Fixed a graphical issue that could be seen in the rear-viewmirror

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> at Texas. > > a.. Added missing wall ads back to New Hampshire. > TRACK GEOMETRY: > > > a.. Fixed an incorrect extended surface type on the apron at > Bristol-Night. > TRACK SETTINGS: > > > a.. Increased Bristol, Bristol-Night, and Martinsville pace speeds

to

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> 40 mph to prevent passing the pace car while on pit road. > > a.. Tightened up the qualifying checkpoints for Daytona and Daytona > Night. > > a.. Added a new track.ini setting "track_dir". See section below for > details. > USER INTERFACE: > > > a.. Fixed scroll bar on Sierra.com available races table. > > a.. Added a checkbox to the Options screen to disable the menu > background animations. > > a.. Fixed a typo in the garage's transmission ratio pop-up help box. > > a.. Added "Import" and "Export" buttons to the Opponent Manager > Screen. See Additional Information section below for details. > > a.. Volume of the garage background sound is now properly controlled > by the Sound Option screen's "User Interface" slider. > > a.. Added a display of the total number of servers and players to

the

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> Available Races table. > > a.. Improved scrolling for the driver list table on the Opponent > Manager screen. > > a.. Correct manufacturer car model is now loaded on the post-race > newspaper winning screen. > > a.. Fixed a bug which could cause the displayed calibration values

to > carry over from one "page" of the controller calibration dialog toanother.

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> Note that this was a display-only issue, and in no way had any affect > whatsoever on the actual calibration data used by the game. > [2] HOW TO INSTALL THE PATCH ==================================== > > 1. Run the saved patch executable. > > 2. The patch should automatically detect your NASCAR� Racing 2003 > Season installation directory and then begin the patching process. > > > a.. Note that if you have modified any of the game's files using 3rd > party utilities, it may be necessary to reinstall the game before the

patch

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> can successfully complete its installation. > [3] ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ==================================== > > SHADOW VOLUMES > > When using the DirectX D3D renderer Car shadows can now be rendered > using Shadow Volumes on hardware that supports Stencil Buffers. This

feature

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> allows for more realistic car shadows that can be cast on walls. This > feature also eliminate the "double-dark" shadows that would be seen when > multiple car shadows overlapped. To enable this new feature, you will need > to manually edit your PLAYER.INI, changing default "0" to a "1" as shown > below: > > [Graphic Options] enable_ShadowVolumes=1 ; set to 1 to enable shadow > volumes > > CAR MEGA SHADER OPTIMIZATION > > When using the DirectX D3D renderer multi-pass rendering can now be > made more efficient on cards with advanced shader capabilities. To enable > this new feature, you will need to manually edit your PLAYER.INI, changing > default "0" to a "1" as shown below: > > [Graphic Options] enable_CarMegaShader=1 ; set to 1 to enable

advanced > shaders where applicable > > OPPONENT MANAGER IMPORT & EXPORT BUTTONS > > You can now import and export car and pitcrew skins directly fromthe > main Opponent Manager screen without entering the paintkit. This allowsfor > the use of "hi-res" textures that previously were only available toadvanced > users who manually edited MIP files. The texture must be a power of 2 > multiple of 512x512 such as 1024x1024. Note that the paintkit is not > compatible with these "hi-res" textures. > > By default texture compression will be enabled when a texture is > imported through the Opponent Manager. If you would prefer that theOpponent > Manager not compress these textures when they are imported, edit the > import_textures_with_compression line in your PLAYER.INI, changing the 1to > a 0: > > [Opponent Manager] import_textures_with_compression=0 ; Enabletexture > compression on imported textures. > > TRACK DIRECTION SETTING > > There's a new line which can be added the TRACK.INI near where you > specify chassis and track types, called "track_dir". A setting of "1"means > the track turns left or counter-clockwise only, so the normal"inside=left" > and "outside=right" spotter is used, and tires are mounted on the car for > turning left. A setting of "-1" means it's a right or clockwise track, soa > reversed "outside=left" and "inside=right" spotter is used, and the tires > are mounted on opposite sides than a left track. A setting of "0" meansthe > track turns both left and right, so the spotter will only refer to "left" > and "right" instead of "inside" and "outside", and only "outside" tiresare > mounted on the car so it can turn in both directions equally. > > Note that by default the game assumes a track is a left-hand oval,so

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> for most tracks this setting will be absent. Additionally using > "track_type=5" to specify a road course automatically turns on the > "left/right" spotter behavior, so you should only need to use the > "track_dir=0" if you had a left/right track that you did not want to be > counted as a road course (i.e. single-file restarts only, road course > Sierra.com ratings, etc.). > > > > >

MrB wrote: > TURN OFF THE RACING LINE IN MULTIPLAYER FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD!!!!! > ENOUGH OF THE CHEATING........DRIVE THE TRACK ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > I think your CAPS LOCK is stuck ! And don't quote the whole message to add 3 measly lines :) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spammers>

"MrB" wrote... > TURN OFF THE RACING LINE IN MULTIPLAYER FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD!!!!! > ENOUGH OF THE CHEATING........DRIVE THE TRACK ALREADY!!!!!!!!!! Whatcha whining about? -Guys who follow the "ideal line" are predictable and, at most places, slow. <g> Jan. =---

Holy crap! Thanks some patch - Thanks Papy.... But I just have to add: WHY NO F'IN RACE-LIST FILTERS???? Cant't be that damn hard to do! I'm so sick and tired of browsing thru 20000000000000000000000000000000 empty races just to find that 1 roadcourse race I was looking for! Look at RTCW, BF1942 etc etc. *AND LEARN!!* Arrrrrrrgghh!!! -- ed_

Jan, Here's my reason for being upset about the ideal racing line issue. If a driver needs the ideal racing line on during multiplayer racing, then at some point their telling me (without actually saying it) that they must need to look at it for reference purposes even if their actual line is different. That's why they call it a driving aid. If instead, they use the track itself and turn markers/green flag poles as reference points for their turns and braking points, then they are doing what NASCAR drivers do each week, which makes the experience more of a simulation. It also gives those of us trying to keep it "as real as possible" (without using the racing line) on an even playing field with everyone else out there. That's the point I'm trying to make. Mr B "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ERoLa.4320$[email hidden]...

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> "MrB" wrote... > > TURN OFF THE RACING LINE IN MULTIPLAYER FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD!!!!! > > ENOUGH OF THE CHEATING........DRIVE THE TRACK ALREADY!!!!!!!!!! > > Whatcha whining about? -Guys who follow the "ideal line" are predictable > and, at most places, slow. <g> > > Jan. > =--- > >

What a lot of fuss about nothing! How many *league* drivers (as opposed to the cretins out there) use the guideline after they have spent some time learning the track? "Bugger all", I reckon. Bruce. "MrB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:AapLa.47741$[email hidden]... > > If a driver needs the ideal racing line on during multiplayer racing, then > at some point their telling me (without actually saying it) that they must > need to look at it for reference purposes even if their actual line is > different. That's why they call it a driving aid.

Exactly.... "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> What a lot of fuss about nothing! > > How many *league* drivers (as opposed to the cretins out there) use the > guideline after they have spent some time learning the track? > "Bugger all", I reckon. > > Bruce. > > "MrB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:AapLa.47741$[email hidden]... > > > > If a driver needs the ideal racing line on during multiplayer racing,

then > > at some point their telling me (without actually saying it) that theymust > > need to look at it for reference purposes even if their actual line is > > different. That's why they call it a driving aid. > >

"MrB" wrote...

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> Jan, > > Here's my reason for being upset about the ideal > racing line issue. > > If a driver needs the ideal racing line on during > multiplayer racing, then at some point their > telling me (without actually saying it) that they > must need to look at it for reference purposes > even if their actual line is different. That's > why they call it a driving aid. > If instead, they use the track itself and turn > markers/green flag poles as reference points for > their turns and braking points, then they are doing > what NASCAR drivers do each week, which makes the > experience more of a simulation.

With you so far... > It also gives those of us trying to keep it "as real > as possible" (without using the racing line) on an > even playing field with everyone else out there. > That's the point I'm trying to make. Ah... but you see, by considering it an advantage you're somewhat admitting the tracks, even at a high detail setting, are not detailed enough to have accurate "marks". What if people don't have the horsepower to crank up the detail? And, if you go that far, shouldn't you also consider on-track shadows a driving aid, as the sun doesn't shift in the sim? It's all a matter of where you draw the line. Personally, if it doesn't actually help in controlling the car, I don't consider it a driving aid. Besides, if it keeps adversaries from doing unexpected things, I'm all for it. Nothing is more aggravating than getting spun out by someone missing his/her mark. It's like smoke/dirt... personally, I couldn't feel immersed without having it on, but I don't mind racing people who turn it off for whatever reason. Jan. =---

I second that, a race list filter is a MUST! "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3efe1dcd$[email hidden]...

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> Holy crap! > Thanks some patch - Thanks Papy.... > > But I just have to add: > > WHY NO F'IN RACE-LIST FILTERS???? > > Cant't be that damn hard to do! > > I'm so sick and tired of browsing thru 20000000000000000000000000000000 > empty races just to find that 1 roadcourse race I was looking for! > > Look at RTCW, BF1942 etc etc. *AND LEARN!!* > > Arrrrrrrgghh!!! > > -- > ed_ > > >

To Jan: > Ah... but you see, by considering it an advantage you're somewhatadmitting > the tracks, even at a high detail setting, are not detailed enough to have > accurate "marks". Not exactly, what I'm saying is that with the line on, I believe most drivers focus more on that line than they do on the marks around the track. I have used the line in the past so I have experience here. However, the whole point of racing is that you have to pick your spots on the track that make sense for you. It's not an exact science, that's the point. What if people don't have the horsepower to crank up the > detail? And, if you go that far, shouldn't you also consider on-track > shadows a driving aid, as the sun doesn't shift in the sim? Horsepower is a completely separate issue. I'll qualify my criteria by racing the sim with the proper equipment (steering wheel and gas/brake included). If someone doesn't have the horsepower, then they should consider taking steps necessary to acceptably run the sim.....or get a PS2 and EA Sports Nascar Thunder..... > > It's all a matter of where you draw the line. Personally, if it doesn't > actually help in controlling the car, I don't consider it a driving aid. The racing line does "exactly that" by showing a driver where they are on the track and where to gas and brake. Let someone use the racing line all they want in practice before the race actually starts. > Besides, if it keeps adversaries from doing unexpected things, I'm all for > it. Nothing is more aggravating than getting spun out by someone missing > his/her mark. While I do agree that it's aggravating to get spun out, the whole point of this is that everyone is different. I would rather be chasing someone for the lead late in a race and have them make a mistake.....wide in a corner.....and beat them, then trail them knowing that they pretty much can see exactly when to brake, turn, and accelerate through corners......limiting my possibilities for a victory.....if I don't use the line to keep it more realistic....closer to real NASCAR racing. > It's like smoke/dirt... personally, I couldn't feel immersed withouthaving > it on, but I don't mind racing people who turn it off for whatever reason. I agree with you there. Mr. B

Geez, I just click on the criteria I am looking for Players/servers/track and bing, it is listed that way, scroll down to I for Infineon, etc.. I don't really mean to sound like a smart ass but I am usually able to find what I am looking for in the server list without too much trouble. -- McWhom ----------------------------------------------------------------- "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9jqLa.25453$[email hidden]... : I second that, a race list filter is a MUST! : : "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message : news:3efe1dcd$[email hidden]... : > Holy crap! : > Thanks some patch - Thanks Papy.... : > : > But I just have to add: : > : > WHY NO F'IN RACE-LIST FILTERS???? : > : > Cant't be that damn hard to do! : > : > I'm so sick and tired of browsing thru 20000000000000000000000000000000 : > empty races just to find that 1 roadcourse race I was looking for! : > : > Look at RTCW, BF1942 etc etc. *AND LEARN!!* : > : > Arrrrrrrgghh!!! : > : > -- : > ed_ : > : > : > : :

Well, why are you moaning? If stuff-all people use it then it doesn't matter if it's available or not....nobody worth their salt will be using it, will they? Bruce. "MrB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zPpLa.47410$[email hidden]... > Exactly....

That is a condescending remark and somewhat ill-mannered of you. I use a joystick - and old, beaten-up unit which needs to be replaced, but it is my favourite and I prefer it to the clutter of wheel and pedals. I also run my display at lower-than-median detail and drive the car using the rooftop view. In accordance with your dictates, perhaps I should be banned because it doesn't fit in with your criteria? Bruce. "MrB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:EuqLa.47816$[email hidden]... > > Horsepower is a completely separate issue. I'll qualify my criteria byracing the sim with the proper equipment (steering wheel and gas/brake included). If someone doesn't have the horsepower, then they should consider taking steps necessary to acceptably run the sim.....or get a PS2 and EA Sports Nascar Thunder..... >

Ditto. The sorting variations already act as a filter. Use it properly and it takes five seconds to find any target. Bruce. "mcwhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Geez, I just click on the criteria I am looking for Players/servers/track > and bing, it is listed that way,

Cheater, cheater, cheater ;-P -- McWhom ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... : That is a condescending remark and somewhat ill-mannered of you. : : I use a joystick - and old, beaten-up unit which needs to be replaced, but : it is my favourite and I prefer it to the clutter of wheel and pedals. : I also run my display at lower-than-median detail and drive the car using : the rooftop view. : : In accordance with your dictates, perhaps I should be banned because it : doesn't fit in with your criteria? : : Bruce. : : "MrB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message : news:EuqLa.47816$[email hidden]... : > : > Horsepower is a completely separate issue. I'll qualify my criteria by : racing the sim with the proper equipment (steering wheel and gas/brake : included). If someone doesn't have the horsepower, then they should : consider taking steps necessary to acceptably run the sim.....or get a PS2 : and EA Sports Nascar Thunder..... : > : :

"Bruce Kennewell" said: > Ditto. > The sorting variations already act as a filter. > Use it properly and it takes five seconds to find any target. Oh, really? Can you find me a Superspeedway race that's hosted by a sub 200ms server.... It has to be a 1-4 skill race of atleast 25% distance with yellows on, fixed setups, single-file restarts, moderate damage - but no hardcore mode - and hosted on a dedicated server - thats not password protected and I would prefer it there was no more than 5 minutes left of the practice session.. Oh and yes - it has to be open for atleast 30 drivers and pref be close to full all ready.. Add to that it has to be on a track I like! Can you find that within 5 second? Nope? - I didnt think so either. Finding a specific event is not all that bad (but still *far* from ideal..) - finding a good race or five on a friday night on the other hand - is something completely different. Why do I have to look thru a list of 100's of Superspeedway races - both full or empty - when what I'm looking for is a good short-track race? Next time you browse thru that race-list... take a good look at it... Perhaps you'll see how much useless information/listings it really contains. -- ed_ http://rascar.racesimcentral.com --------------------------------------- $10 say Petter Solberg wins the 2003 WRC

Well, what you do is minimise your sorting criteria......I don't know what is *most* important on your list for casual races but, using *my* criteria, it's firstly low ping (not the Chinese philosopher), followed in second place by non-password, followed by track-type in third. Once I've done that the rest is pretty straightforward as I don't have any further major preferences. Maybe not five seconds, but certainly fast enough so as not to be inconvenient. I certainly don't need to apply for the old age pension whilst carrying out the procedure. Bruce. "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Oh, really?

"MrB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > Horsepower is a completely separate issue. I'll qualify my criteria by > racing the sim with the proper equipment (steering wheel and gas/brake > included). If someone doesn't have the horsepower, then they should > consider taking steps necessary to acceptably run the sim.....or get a PS2 > and EA Sports Nascar Thunder..... who the hell are you to tell people if they don't have the money for the fastest puter on the market and the best damn steering wheel out there, that they shouldn't race on line. Me, I don't give a shit what aids people use. If its what they are comfortable with, go for it. Where is the international law that says online racing is only for the dedicated sim enthusiast? If the casual player racing online needs aids, thats their perogative. In an open server, you have to deal with the fact that people may and probably are using aids, and adjust your race stratagy to suit. Now when it comes to league races. Everyone in that league has to follow the same rules. If the rules on what aids people are using isn't to your liking, change leagues just my 0.02 worth Steve

"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> That is a condescending remark and somewhat ill-mannered of you. > > I use a joystick - and old, beaten-up unit which needs to be replaced, > but it is my favourite and I prefer it to the clutter of wheel and > pedals. I also run my display at lower-than-median detail and drive > the car using the rooftop view. > > In accordance with your dictates, perhaps I should be banned because > it doesn't fit in with your criteria? >

Not only banned but you need conseling IMMEADIATELY. No MAN would blab in public that is joystick is old and worn out..... dave henrie

"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I certainly don't need to apply for the old age pension whilst > carrying out the procedure. > > Bruce.I thought you were already on it :-)) Steve

I don't think I ever used the driving line. Turned it on a couple of times but imo most lines around any track don't automatically follow where that yellow guide is. At least not for me. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "MrB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:p3oLa.43815$Bg.28750@rwcrnsc54... > TURN OFF THE RACING LINE IN MULTIPLAYER FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD!!!!! ENOUGH OF > THE CHEATING........DRIVE THE TRACK ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!! >

Steve, That's really where my concern lies. I'm really not interested in affecting open pickup races. They can do whatever they like. It's the league racing where the controlled aids needs to be monitored but can't be currently. Without the patch allowing for server/admin control, there is really no difference between pickup races and league races as far as forcing simulated environments goes. Mr. B "Steve Whitty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3efe6cc6$0$5432$[email hidden]...

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> > "MrB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > Horsepower is a completely separate issue. I'll qualify my criteria by > > racing the sim with the proper equipment (steering wheel and gas/brake > > included). If someone doesn't have the horsepower, then they should > > consider taking steps necessary to acceptably run the sim.....or get a

PS2 > > and EA Sports Nascar Thunder..... > > who the hell are you to tell people if they don't have the money for the > fastest puter on the market and the best damn steering wheel out there,that > they shouldn't race on line. > Me, I don't give a shit what aids people use. If its what they are > comfortable with, go for it. Where is the international law that says > online racing is only for the dedicated sim enthusiast? If the casual > player racing online needs aids, thats their perogative. In an openserver, > you have to deal with the fact that people may and probably are usingaids, > and adjust your race stratagy to suit. Now when it comes to league races. > Everyone in that league has to follow the same rules. If the rules onwhat > aids people are using isn't to your liking, change leagues > just my 0.02 worth > > Steve > >

I'm simply saying give us the option to turn ALL AIDS OFF....if we so choose.....thats all. Mr. B > who the hell are you to tell people if they don't have the money for the > fastest puter on the market and the best damn steering wheel out there,that > they shouldn't race on line. > Me, I don't give a shit what aids people use. If its what they are > comfortable with, go for it. Where is the international law that says > online racing is only for the dedicated sim enthusiast? If the casual > player racing online needs aids, thats their perogative. In an openserver, > you have to deal with the fact that people may and probably are usingaids, > and adjust your race stratagy to suit. Now when it comes to league races. > Everyone in that league has to follow the same rules. If the rules onwhat > aids people are using isn't to your liking, change leagues > just my 0.02 worth > > Steve > >

LOL! :D Thank you, Dave. I will now look at my old joystick in a different light.............maybe 25 watts, so the wrinkles aren't so obvious. Bruce. "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > > Not only banned but you need conseling IMMEADIATELY. No MAN would blab > in public that is joystick is old and worn out.....

Jeez! I can't take a trick. I'm leaving myself wide open to these nasty jibes, aren't I? :D Bruce. "Steve Whitty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3efe6dc3$0$5432$[email hidden]... > > I thought you were already on it :-)) > > Steve

>"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > How many *league* drivers (as opposed to the cretins out there) use the > guideline after they have spent some time learning the track? > "Bugger all", I reckon. Rubbish. From the LAN experience I have, I can tell you the answer is "lotsa" -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > Jeez! I can't take a trick. > I'm leaving myself wide open to these nasty jibes, aren't I? :D > > Bruce. it was wide open enough to drive 3 mack trucks....:-) steve

Now I see where you're coming from. In a league, its a matter of trust of fellow racer. If the rules say no aids or driving line whatsoever, its up to the drivers to be honest with themselves and the other drivers and not use them. Me, all I'm concerned about when racing is that I'm driving to the best of my ability and not causing problems for anyone else. If I get beaten by someone not entirely within the spirit of the rules, so be it. I drove my race and did the best I could. I think it boils down to finding a league that you trust the other drivers. steve

Very true, Steve. In fact, I did see a couple of very large freight trains followed by a huge herd of wildebeest go through just after I posted. :) Bruce. "Steve Whitty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3efe98bc$0$31278$[email hidden]... > > it was wide open enough to drive 3 mack trucks....:-) >

Tell you what Ed, most times I am on the Papy servers, that race is not being hosted. I would say it is a pretty safe bet that the criteria you have here would only be found on a scheduled league race and you would already know where you are looking. C'mon gimme a break here, 25% WITH yellows on???? On Papy>?? -- McWhom ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... : "Bruce Kennewell" said: : > Ditto. : > The sorting variations already act as a filter. : > Use it properly and it takes five seconds to find any target. : : : Oh, really? : : Can you find me a Superspeedway race that's hosted by a sub 200ms : server.... It has to be a 1-4 skill race of atleast 25% distance with : yellows on, fixed setups, single-file restarts, moderate damage - but no : hardcore mode - and hosted on a dedicated server - thats not password : protected and I would prefer it there was no more than 5 minutes left of the : practice session.. Oh and yes - it has to be open for atleast 30 drivers and : pref be close to full all ready.. Add to that it has to be on a track I : like! : : Can you find that within 5 second? : : Nope? - I didnt think so either. : : Finding a specific event is not all that bad (but still *far* from : ideal..) - finding a good race or five on a friday night on the other hand - : is something completely different. : : Why do I have to look thru a list of 100's of Superspeedway races - both : full or empty - when what I'm looking for is a good short-track race? : Next time you browse thru that race-list... take a good look at it... : Perhaps you'll see how much useless information/listings it really contains. : : : -- : ed_ : http://rascar.racesimcentral.com : --------------------------------------- : $10 say Petter Solberg wins the 2003 WRC : :

"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > Very true, Steve. > In fact, I did see a couple of very large freight trains followed by ahuge > herd of wildebeest go through just after I posted. :) sooooo tempting......no.....no.....self control steve!!! No. I'm under contol. But, oh theres some good replies in there:o) Steve

In article <LivLa.7992$[email hidden]>, francois- [email hidden] says...

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> >"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > > How many *league* drivers (as opposed to the cretins out there) use the > > guideline after they have spent some time learning the track? > > "Bugger all", I reckon. > > > Rubbish. From the LAN experience I have, I can tell you the answer is > "lotsa"

Hmmmm, I've never used the driving line thing, but I do occasionally use stability control.

I would mark this up on the board as Bruce "One" and MrB "0". MrB is getting more and more irrelevant as his conversation continues. LOL "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> That is a condescending remark and somewhat ill-mannered of you. > > I use a joystick - and old, beaten-up unit which needs to be replaced, but > it is my favourite and I prefer it to the clutter of wheel and pedals. > I also run my display at lower-than-median detail and drive the car using > the rooftop view. > > In accordance with your dictates, perhaps I should be banned because it > doesn't fit in with your criteria? > > Bruce. > > "MrB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:EuqLa.47816$[email hidden]... > > > > Horsepower is a completely separate issue. I'll qualify my criteria by > racing the sim with the proper equipment (steering wheel and gas/brake > included). If someone doesn't have the horsepower, then they should > consider taking steps necessary to acceptably run the sim.....or get a PS2 > and EA Sports Nascar Thunder..... > > > >

That's all well and good but I want a filter. Why? I would like to at a minimum be able to filter out passworded races and races that are empty. Just doing this alone would shorten the list I would have to scroll through to find a race. Would you rather sort through a list of 1000 races? or just filter out those two options and sort through a list of say 30? Most games that come out now have filters, if N2k3 was able to be listed in Kali or The All Seeing Eye then we wouldn't be here asking for it...... "mcwhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Geez, I just click on the criteria I am looking for Players/servers/track > and bing, it is listed that way, scroll down to I for Infineon, etc.. > I don't really mean to sound like a smart ass but I am usually able tofind

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> what I am looking for in the server list without too much trouble. > > -- > McWhom > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9jqLa.25453$[email hidden]... > : I second that, a race list filter is a MUST! > : > : "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > : news:3efe1dcd$[email hidden]... > : > Holy crap! > : > Thanks some patch - Thanks Papy.... > : > > : > But I just have to add: > : > > : > WHY NO F'IN RACE-LIST FILTERS???? > : > > : > Cant't be that damn hard to do! > : > > : > I'm so sick and tired of browsing thru

20000000000000000000000000000000

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> : > empty races just to find that 1 roadcourse race I was looking for! > : > > : > Look at RTCW, BF1942 etc etc. *AND LEARN!!* > : > > : > Arrrrrrrgghh!!! > : > > : > -- > : > ed_ > : > > : > > : > > : > : > >

"MrB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:AapLa.47741$[email hidden]...

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> Jan, > > Here's my reason for being upset about the ideal racing line issue. > > If a driver needs the ideal racing line on during multiplayer racing, then > at some point their telling me (without actually saying it) that they must > need to look at it for reference purposes even if their actual line is > different. That's why they call it a driving aid. > If instead, they use the track itself and turn markers/green flag poles as > reference points for their turns and braking points, then they are doing > what NASCAR drivers do each week, which makes the experience more of a > simulation. > > It also gives those of us trying to keep it "as real as possible" (without > using the racing line) on an even playing field with everyone else out > there. That's the point I'm trying to make. > > Mr B

I see no rule in the official NASCAR rules which states that drivers can't use a racing line driving aid - so therefore *you* are the one which is further from reality by adding in rules to the simulator as you see fit ;-)

I would also like to filter out arcade races. "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:nXCLa.25584$[email hidden]... > That's all well and good but I want a filter. Why? I would like to at a > minimum be able to filter out passworded races and races that are empty. > Just doing this alone would shorten the list I would have to scrollthrough > to find a race. Would you rather sort through a list of 1000 races? orjust > filter out those two options and sort through a list of say 30? Most games > that come out now have filters, if N2k3 was able to be listed in Kali orThe

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> All Seeing Eye then we wouldn't be here asking for it...... > > > > > "mcwhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Geez, I just click on the criteria I am looking for

Players/servers/track

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> > and bing, it is listed that way, scroll down to I for Infineon, etc.. > > I don't really mean to sound like a smart ass but I am usually able to > find > > what I am looking for in the server list without too much trouble. > > > > -- > > McWhom > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:9jqLa.25453$[email hidden]... > > : I second that, a race list filter is a MUST! > > : > > : "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > : news:3efe1dcd$[email hidden]... > > : > Holy crap! > > : > Thanks some patch - Thanks Papy.... > > : > > > : > But I just have to add: > > : > > > : > WHY NO F'IN RACE-LIST FILTERS???? > > : > > > : > Cant't be that damn hard to do! > > : > > > : > I'm so sick and tired of browsing thru > 20000000000000000000000000000000 > > : > empty races just to find that 1 roadcourse race I was looking for! > > : > > > : > Look at RTCW, BF1942 etc etc. *AND LEARN!!* > > : > > > : > Arrrrrrrgghh!!! > > : > > > : > -- > > : > ed_ > > : > > > : > > > : > > > : > > : > > > > > > >

I would also like to filter out arcade races. > That's all well and good but I want a filter. Why? I would like to at a > minimum be able to filter out passworded races and races that are empty. > Just doing this alone would shorten the list I would have to scroll through > to find a race. Would you rather sort through a list of 1000 races? or just > filter out those two options and sort through a list of say 30? Most games > that come out now have filters, if N2k3 was able to be listed in Kali or The > All Seeing Eye then we wouldn't be here asking for it...... > > Geez, I just click on the criteria I am looking for Players/servers/track

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> > I don't really mean to sound like a smart ass but I am usually able to > find > > what I am looking for in the server list without too much trouble. > > -- > > McWhom > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > : I second that, a race list filter is a MUST! > > : > > : > Holy crap! > > : > Thanks some patch - Thanks Papy.... > > : > > > : > But I just have to add: > > : > > > : > WHY NO F'IN RACE-LIST FILTERS???? > > : > > > : > Cant't be that damn hard to do! > > : > > > : > I'm so sick and tired of browsing thru > 20000000000000000000000000000000 > > : > empty races just to find that 1 roadcourse race I was looking for! > > : > > > : > Look at RTCW, BF1942 etc etc. *AND LEARN!!* > > : > > > : > Arrrrrrrgghh!!! > > : > > > : > -- > > : > ed_ > > : > > > : > > > : > > > : > > :

Good grief, the racing line is totally begnign. You don't have to use it if you don't want to. I'm more concerned that I didn't see anything mentioned about random damage. Nothing about toning down the games giving far too many random engine failures, transmission failures, etc... and still no option for online race proctors to turn it off altogether. -Larry "MrB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:p3oLa.43815$Bg.28750@rwcrnsc54...

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> TURN OFF THE RACING LINE IN MULTIPLAYER FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD!!!!! ENOUGH OF > THE CHEATING........DRIVE THE TRACK ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3efd7bdd$0$9355$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Patch Update #2 > > Steve Myers (Papy Developer) - 11:30am Jun 27, 2003 PST > > Hi all, > > > > Below you will find the readme for the upcoming NR2003 patch. As I > am > > sure you will see, we have made quite a few bug fixes along with adding > some > > features. The patch has been submitted to QA and will be released when > they > > have completed testing it. > > > > Steve > > > > NASCAR� Racing 2003 Season PATCH README 1.1.0.0 06/25/03 [ To read > > this file, select Edit/Word Wrap from the menu above ] > > > > TABLE OF CONTENTS > > > > [1] WHAT THE PATCH FIXES [2] HOW TO INSTALL THE PATCH [3]

ADDITIONAL > > INFORMATION [4] CONTACTING SIERRA > > > > > > a.. *********************************** > > NOTE: The 1.1.0.0 version of NASCAR� Racing 2003 Season is not > > multiplayer compatible with previously released versions. As a clientyou > > will only be able to see and join 1.1.x.x servers, and similarly as ahost > > only 1.1.x.x clients will be able to see and join your server. > > > > Additionally, telemetry gathering programs built for thepreviously

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> > released versions of the game will not be compatible with the 1.1.0.0 > > version. These utilities will need to be re-linked with the updated > > papytelemapp.obj that is distributed with the 1.1.0.0 patch. > > > > > > a.. *********************************** > > [1] WHAT THE PATCH FIXES ==================================== > > > > AI: > > > > > > a.. AI cars will now be less likely to retire as a result of > suffering > > damage. > > CAR FILES: > > > > > > a.. Changed the #155 to a Ford. > > CAR MODEL: > > > > > > a.. Added jack screw holes to rear window. > > > > a.. Fixed incorrect shininess map on steering column. > > CAR SETUPS: > > > > > > a.. Slight adjustments to the FAST and JASPER setups to account

for

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> > ride-height and front spring changes. See PHYSICS section below for more > > details. > > CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON: > > > > > > a.. Qualifying results and number of poles will now be properly > saved > > in Event Results and Season Standings after a completed qualifying

session > > was restarted. > > > > a.. Fixed some minor sorting issues on the Event Results andSeason > > Standings tables. > > > > a.. Practice length, Happy Hour length, and the roster name arenow > > properly saved into the season file. > > CONTROLS: > > > > > > a.. When throttle or brake are assigned to a digital control suchas > a > > keyboard key or joystick button, traction control and anti-lock brakescan > > now be disabled. > > GARAGE: > > > > > > a.. Car setup ranges are now properly applied as a setup isloaded. > > This prevents the use of setup files from previous versions whichallowed > > different ranges. > > MULTIPLAYER: > > > > > > a.. Fixed a bug which prevented in-car chat when the chat filterwas > > disabled. > > > > a.. Fixed a bug which prevented bosses from ejecting otherclients.

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> > > > a.. The !clear command has been renamed !clear_black so as to not > > conflict with the various clear password commands. > > > > a.. Increased timeout for Sierra.com race list download. > > > > a.. Hardcore mode now has separate options for driving aids and > visual > > restrictions. When driving aids are restricted, anti-lock brakes, > stability > > control, steering assistance, and traction control will be disabled for > all > > drivers. > > > > a.. Increased race session start countdown from 30 to 60 seconds. > > > > a.. Black flags that are issued by an admin or as the result of a > poll > > can now be cleared. > > > > a.. Non-animated opponent pit crews can now be seen in multiplayer > > races. > > > > a.. Sierra.com system messages are now properly translated > eliminating > > the cryptic "@#1267ever" and similar messages. > > PHYSICS: > > > > > > a.. Updated super speedway aero drag and downforce maps based on

new > > data Jasper Motorsports. > > > > a.. Extended the non-super speedway aero-downforce andaero-balance > > maps so that when the car is run very low to the ground an aeroundersteer > > problem caused by running off the end of the aero maps is fixed. > > > > a.. Softened motion ratios of the front springs based on new data > from > > Jasper Motorsports. Slightly stiffer front springs will be required toget > > the same front wheelrate as before. Version 1.0 setups will still havethe

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> > correct wheel rate, their spring rate will be displayed based on the new > > motion ratio. > > > > a.. Slightly reduced front bump camber effects. > > > > a.. Front suspension geometry has been reworked to fix a camber > > fall-off with steering bug. > > > > a.. Chassis had too much ground clearance, so bottoming out

wouldn't

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> > occur when it should. > > > > a.. Chassis bottoming out friction is increased. > > > > a.. Reduced draft effects. > > > > a.. Rear weight bias at restrictor plate tracks is now limited to > 50% > > of the car's minimum weight to match 2003 rule changes. > > > > a.. Tire wear is now more affected by running tires hot. > > > > a.. Stability Control has been tweaked to affect tire wear. > > PIT CREW: > > > > > > a.. Pit crew will no longer wave pit sign when you are serving a > > drive-thru penalty unless you pull into the pit stall area indicating

that

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> > you actually want to pit (note that the drive-thru penalty will NOT be > > cleared if you do in fact stop for service). > > RACE CONTROL: > > > > > > a.. Fixed a bug in Arcade mode which prevented you from being able > to > > clear a drive-thru penalty after speeding in the pits. > > > > a.. Penalties for cutting the course are no longer enforced after

a > > car has taken the checkered flag. > > > > a.. Qualifying session time will be extended for longer tracks.This

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> > will allow the use of 3rd party tracks where qualifying laps previously > > could not be completed within the game's default session time limit. > > > > a.. Caution periods at the short ovals (Bristol, Martinsville, and > > Richmond) have been extended by an additional lap. > > > > a.. Fixed a bug which caused the speed/gear indicator's yellow

flag

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> to > > not reset after a debris caution. > > > > a.. Increased caution sensitivity. > > > > a.. With damage enabled, debris cautions for single car accidents > are > > now possible. > > RENDERER: > > > > > > a.. Fixed a bug which could cause low track rail LODs in wide FOV > > camera views. > > > > a.. Greatly reduced framerate impact of advanced "on-car shadows" > > Graphics options when using the DirectX D3D renderer. > > > > a.. Car shadows can now use Shadow Volumes. See Additional > Information > > section below for details. > > > > a.. Slight optimization to multi-pass rendering in the DirectX D3D > > renderer. See Additional Information section below for details. > > > > a.. Fixed bug which caused car to car shadows to appear opaque

black > > in the OpenGL renderer. > > > > a.. Fixed a bug in the DirectX D3D renderer that for some users > would > > cause a crash at the Eight-Bowl track (this fantasy track is availablevia > a > > separate track pack download). > > > > a.. Fixed a bug in the OpenGL renderer that caused some of the > shadows > > at Las Vegas (76 balls and the scoring tower) to not be cast onto thecar. > > SPOTTER/CREW CHIEF: > > > > > > a.. Added support for "3-wide on the left" and "3-wide on theright"

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> > messages. > > > > a.. If you are already on pit road, the spotter will no longer > remind > > you to come in and serve a black flag penalty when you cross the start > > finish line. If you exit pit road without serving the penalty, the > reminder > > message will then be triggered. > > TELEMETRY: > > > > > > a.. Player car gauge data and opponent car track position > information > > are now available. See "telemetry\papytelemapp.h" and > > "telemetry\tsample.cpp" for details. > > TRACK ARTWORK: > > > > > > a.. Fixed a problem with the horizon texture at Darlington when > cloudy > > weather was selected. > > > > a.. Fixed a graphical issue that could be seen in the rear-view > mirror > > at Texas. > > > > a.. Added missing wall ads back to New Hampshire. > > TRACK GEOMETRY: > > > > > > a.. Fixed an incorrect extended surface type on the apron at > > Bristol-Night. > > TRACK SETTINGS: > > > > > > a.. Increased Bristol, Bristol-Night, and Martinsville pace speeds > to > > 40 mph to prevent passing the pace car while on pit road. > > > > a.. Tightened up the qualifying checkpoints for Daytona and

Daytona > > Night. > > > > a.. Added a new track.ini setting "track_dir". See section belowfor

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> > details. > > USER INTERFACE: > > > > > > a.. Fixed scroll bar on Sierra.com available races table. > > > > a.. Added a checkbox to the Options screen to disable the menu > > background animations. > > > > a.. Fixed a typo in the garage's transmission ratio pop-up help

box. > > > > a.. Added "Import" and "Export" buttons to the Opponent Manager > > Screen. See Additional Information section below for details. > > > > a.. Volume of the garage background sound is now properlycontrolled

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> > by the Sound Option screen's "User Interface" slider. > > > > a.. Added a display of the total number of servers and players to > the > > Available Races table. > > > > a.. Improved scrolling for the driver list table on the Opponent > > Manager screen. > > > > a.. Correct manufacturer car model is now loaded on the post-race > > newspaper winning screen. > > > > a.. Fixed a bug which could cause the displayed calibration values > to > > carry over from one "page" of the controller calibration dialog to > another. > > Note that this was a display-only issue, and in no way had any affect > > whatsoever on the actual calibration data used by the game. > > [2] HOW TO INSTALL THE PATCH ==================================== > > > > 1. Run the saved patch executable. > > > > 2. The patch should automatically detect your NASCAR� Racing 2003 > > Season installation directory and then begin the patching process. > > > > > > a.. Note that if you have modified any of the game's files using

3rd

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> > party utilities, it may be necessary to reinstall the game before the > patch > > can successfully complete its installation. > > [3] ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ==================================== > > > > SHADOW VOLUMES > > > > When using the DirectX D3D renderer Car shadows can now be

rendered > > using Shadow Volumes on hardware that supports Stencil Buffers. This > feature > > allows for more realistic car shadows that can be cast on walls. This > > feature also eliminate the "double-dark" shadows that would be seen when > > multiple car shadows overlapped. To enable this new feature, you willneed > > to manually edit your PLAYER.INI, changing default "0" to a "1" as shown > > below: > > > > [Graphic Options] enable_ShadowVolumes=1 ; set to 1 to enableshadow > > volumes > > > > CAR MEGA SHADER OPTIMIZATION > > > > When using the DirectX D3D renderer multi-pass rendering can nowbe > > made more efficient on cards with advanced shader capabilities. Toenable > > this new feature, you will need to manually edit your PLAYER.INI,changing

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> > default "0" to a "1" as shown below: > > > > [Graphic Options] enable_CarMegaShader=1 ; set to 1 to enable > advanced > > shaders where applicable > > > > OPPONENT MANAGER IMPORT & EXPORT BUTTONS > > > > You can now import and export car and pitcrew skins directly from > the > > main Opponent Manager screen without entering the paintkit. This allows > for > > the use of "hi-res" textures that previously were only available to > advanced > > users who manually edited MIP files. The texture must be a power of 2 > > multiple of 512x512 such as 1024x1024. Note that the paintkit is not > > compatible with these "hi-res" textures. > > > > By default texture compression will be enabled when a texture is > > imported through the Opponent Manager. If you would prefer that the > Opponent > > Manager not compress these textures when they are imported, edit the > > import_textures_with_compression line in your PLAYER.INI, changing the 1 > to > > a 0: > > > > [Opponent Manager] import_textures_with_compression=0 ; Enable > texture > > compression on imported textures. > > > > TRACK DIRECTION SETTING > > > > There's a new line which can be added the TRACK.INI near where you > > specify chassis and track types, called "track_dir". A setting of "1" > means > > the track turns left or counter-clockwise only, so the normal > "inside=left" > > and "outside=right" spotter is used, and tires are mounted on the car

for > > turning left. A setting of "-1" means it's a right or clockwise track,so > a > > reversed "outside=left" and "inside=right" spotter is used, and thetires > > are mounted on opposite sides than a left track. A setting of "0" means > the > > track turns both left and right, so the spotter will only refer to"left"

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> > and "right" instead of "inside" and "outside", and only "outside" tires > are > > mounted on the car so it can turn in both directions equally. > > > > Note that by default the game assumes a track is a left-hand oval, > so > > for most tracks this setting will be absent. Additionally using > > "track_type=5" to specify a road course automatically turns on the > > "left/right" spotter behavior, so you should only need to use the > > "track_dir=0" if you had a left/right track that you did not want to be > > counted as a road course (i.e. single-file restarts only, road course > > Sierra.com ratings, etc.). > > > > > > > > > > > >

I use it for braking points sometimes, hardly ever for the actual line. Particularly at road courses. Hey, if it helps keep the next guy out of my ass-end or my side, then I say let them use the thing. I don't have to see it, only they do. -Larry "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <LivLa.7992$[email hidden]>, francois- > [email hidden] says... > > >"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > How many *league* drivers (as opposed to the cretins out there) usethe

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> > > guideline after they have spent some time learning the track? > > > "Bugger all", I reckon. > > > > > > Rubbish. From the LAN experience I have, I can tell you the answer is > > "lotsa" > > Hmmmm, I've never used the driving line thing, but I do occasionally > use stability control.

That works, but since it's a dynamically updating list it gets 'unsorted' almost immediatley. I 1000th the need for a race list filter. -Larry "mcwhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Geez, I just click on the criteria I am looking for Players/servers/track > and bing, it is listed that way, scroll down to I for Infineon, etc.. > I don't really mean to sound like a smart ass but I am usually able tofind

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> what I am looking for in the server list without too much trouble. > > -- > McWhom > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9jqLa.25453$[email hidden]... > : I second that, a race list filter is a MUST! > : > : "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > : news:3efe1dcd$[email hidden]... > : > Holy crap! > : > Thanks some patch - Thanks Papy.... > : > > : > But I just have to add: > : > > : > WHY NO F'IN RACE-LIST FILTERS???? > : > > : > Cant't be that damn hard to do! > : > > : > I'm so sick and tired of browsing thru

20000000000000000000000000000000

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> : > empty races just to find that 1 roadcourse race I was looking for! > : > > : > Look at RTCW, BF1942 etc etc. *AND LEARN!!* > : > > : > Arrrrrrrgghh!!! > : > > : > -- > : > ed_ > : > > : > > : > > : > : > >

Nick, I agree. You and Ken Schrader can go to Daytona with buckets of paint tomorrow and hopefully by Sunday you will be finished and ready for the race......Oh, I forgot, the painted line is not in their game......sorry. Mr. B "Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bdn27v$ubnbj$[email hidden]...

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> "MrB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:AapLa.47741$[email hidden]... > > Jan, > > > > Here's my reason for being upset about the ideal racing line issue. > > > > If a driver needs the ideal racing line on during multiplayer racing,

then > > at some point their telling me (without actually saying it) that theymust > > need to look at it for reference purposes even if their actual line is > > different. That's why they call it a driving aid. > > If instead, they use the track itself and turn markers/green flag polesas > > reference points for their turns and braking points, then they are doing > > what NASCAR drivers do each week, which makes the experience more of a > > simulation. > > > > It also gives those of us trying to keep it "as real as possible"(without

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> > using the racing line) on an even playing field with everyone else out > > there. That's the point I'm trying to make. > > > > Mr B > > I see no rule in the official NASCAR rules which states that drivers can't > use a racing line driving aid - so therefore *you* are the one which is > further from reality by adding in rules to the simulator as you see fit

;-) > >

In article <sAuLa.50209$3d.25848@sccrnsc02>, "MrB" <[email hidden]> writes: >I'm simply saying give us the option to turn ALL AIDS OFF....if we so >choose.....thats all. Isn't that what Hardcore Mode is for...? Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, John Hilsman <[email hidden]> writes: >The 0-10 section has >a lot of servers but if you care about your rank you quit those ASAP, >sorting by rank really makes it pretty easy. I still need to get *a* point in the ratings... Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <EuqLa.47816$[email hidden]>, "MrB" <[email hidden]> writes: >While I do agree that it's aggravating to get spun out, the whole point of >this is that everyone is different. I would rather be chasing someone for >the lead late in a race and have them make a mistake.....wide in a >corner.....and beat them, then trail them knowing that they pretty much can >see exactly when to brake, turn, and accelerate through >corners......limiting my possibilities for a victory..... Even knowing where the LINE says you can brake and accellerate, it doesn't match what the other drivers can do. Trust me - I've followed guys, and they accelerate a lot quicker than the racing line SAYS I should be able to get back on the gas. I think you're getting worked up over nothing - I haven't found the racing line help me be more competitive. Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> In article <sAuLa.50209$3d.25848@sccrnsc02>, "MrB" <[email hidden]> > writes: > > >I'm simply saying give us the option to turn ALL AIDS OFF....if we so > >choose.....thats all. > > Isn't that what Hardcore Mode is for...? > > Eldred >

Hardcore mode (pre-patch) doesn't force the aids off.

Neither is a mph gauge, but I suppose you never ever look at that either.. "MrB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:m%FLa.54841$Ab2.122160@sccrnsc01...

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> Nick, > > I agree. You and Ken Schrader can go to Daytona with buckets of paint > tomorrow and hopefully by Sunday you will be finished and ready for the > race......Oh, I forgot, the painted line is not in their game......sorry. > > Mr. B > > "Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:bdn27v$ubnbj$[email hidden]... > > "MrB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:AapLa.47741$[email hidden]... > > > Jan, > > > > > > Here's my reason for being upset about the ideal racing line issue. > > > > > > If a driver needs the ideal racing line on during multiplayer racing, > then > > > at some point their telling me (without actually saying it) that they > must > > > need to look at it for reference purposes even if their actual line is > > > different. That's why they call it a driving aid. > > > If instead, they use the track itself and turn markers/green flag

poles > as > > > reference points for their turns and braking points, then they aredoing

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> > > what NASCAR drivers do each week, which makes the experience more of a > > > simulation. > > > > > > It also gives those of us trying to keep it "as real as possible" > (without > > > using the racing line) on an even playing field with everyone else out > > > there. That's the point I'm trying to make. > > > > > > Mr B > > > > I see no rule in the official NASCAR rules which states that drivers

can't

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> > use a racing line driving aid - so therefore *you* are the one which is > > further from reality by adding in rules to the simulator as you see fit > ;-) > > > > > >

"Cliff Roman" wrote... > Neither is a mph gauge, but I suppose you never ever look > at that either.. One has to while pitting, seeing as at most places the tach needle is obscured by the wheel spoke. All other times it's next to useless... I know I'm in 4th gear and going as fast as I can... no numeric readout required. <g> Jan. =---

"Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:G0JLa.56210$Ab2.129527@sccrnsc01... > Neither is a mph gauge, but I suppose you never ever look at that either.. Yeah, and turn that F2 screen off right now... <g>

"MrB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:m%FLa.54841$Ab2.122160@sccrnsc01... > Nick, > > I agree. You and Ken Schrader can go to Daytona with buckets of paint > tomorrow and hopefully by Sunday you will be finished and ready for the > race......Oh, I forgot, the painted line is not in their game......sorry. I mean that as rubber is laid down on the race surface, it creates a darkened groove. I don't think there is a rule which says you are not allowed to use that as an aid to the fastest racing line. Everybody does, because by definition that is where the maximun grip is. I know Papy doesn't model this properly (and I don't know why, because varying the grip across the track surface is nowhere near as difficult as they say it is), but paining a green line on the track is the next best thing. Would you complain if the line aid looked like rubber, like GPL (where the line gets darker in the braking zones, rather than turning red) or GTR2002?

I use it as a gauge when I pass certain parts of the track. Lets me tell how good I exited out of a turn etc.. But since this is totally unrealistic, he should be arguing to have it disabled in the patch also "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:JsLLa.5416$[email hidden]... > "Cliff Roman" wrote... > > Neither is a mph gauge, but I suppose you never ever look > > at that either.. > > One has to while pitting, seeing as at most places the tach needle is > obscured by the wheel spoke. All other times it's next to useless... Iknow

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> I'm in 4th gear and going as fast as I can... no numeric readout required. > <g> > > Jan. > =--- > > >

AAH-HAAA! LOL! :D :) Bruce. "Steve Whitty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3efec9ad$0$26636$[email hidden]...

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> > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > Very true, Steve. > > In fact, I did see a couple of very large freight trains followed by a > huge > > herd of wildebeest go through just after I posted. :) > > sooooo tempting......no.....no.....self control steve!!! > No. I'm under contol. But, oh theres some good replies in there:o) > Steve > >

"MrB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:p3oLa.43815$Bg.28750@rwcrnsc54... <snip> : > : > : : Here is what I want to see patched, or added. When I plug in my Sidewinder FF stick, I go into NR2k3 and it wants to configure my wheel and stick as two separate controllers working *together* to control my car. I would really like a way to tell NR2k3 which controller I want to use so I can leave the Sidewinder plugged in for flying games, etc.... -- McWhom -----------------------------------------------------------------

"mcwhom" <siad: > > Here is what I want to see patched, or added. When I plug in mySidewinder > FF stick, I go into NR2k3 and it wants to configure my wheel and stick as > two separate controllers working *together* to control my car. I would > really like a way to tell NR2k3 which controller I want to use so I can > leave the Sidewinder plugged in for flying games, etc.... > Thats no problem Sean... i leave my stick connected at all times... (I have to disconnect my wheel before playing BF1942 tho.. or else I'll fall out of the sky pretty quickly :o) -- ed_

Bruce Kennewell wrote:

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> > That is a condescending remark and somewhat ill-mannered of you. > > I use a joystick - and old, beaten-up unit which needs to be replaced, but > it is my favourite and I prefer it to the clutter of wheel and pedals. > I also run my display at lower-than-median detail and drive the car using > the rooftop view. > > In accordance with your dictates, perhaps I should be banned because it > doesn't fit in with your criteria?

Actually, since you're admitting to using the roof view you should be burned at the stake..... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, >[email hidden] says... >> In article <sAuLa.50209$3d.25848@sccrnsc02>, "MrB" <[email hidden]> >> writes: >> >> >I'm simply saying give us the option to turn ALL AIDS OFF....if we so >> >choose.....thats all. >> >> Isn't that what Hardcore Mode is for...? >> >> Eldred >> > >Hardcore mode (pre-patch) doesn't force the aids off. > >

Ooh, ok... Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I cannot STAND the interior view in N2003 (or N4, for that matter). Gives me claustrophobia. Roof cam allows for greater situational awareness, as far as I'm concerned. (At least I'm up-front enough to admit it!) Bruce. "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Actually, since you're admitting to using the roof view you should be > burned at the stake..... >

> > Here is what I want to see patched, or added. When I plug in mySidewinder

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> FF stick, I go into NR2k3 and it wants to configure my wheel and stick as > two separate controllers working *together* to control my car. I would > really like a way to tell NR2k3 which controller I want to use so I can > leave the Sidewinder plugged in for flying games, etc.... > > -- > McWhom > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > >

I've the same problem with my Sidewinder game pad. You can leave your stick plugged in though.... I just go into Control Panel//Game Controllers and remove the pad and just leave my LWFFGp in the window. Hope this helps, Tim

In article <3f00faf4$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Bruce Kennewell) wrote: > I cannot STAND the interior view in N2003 (or N4, for that matter). > Gives me claustrophobia. In my heart I feel that anything other than the cockpit view is cheating a bit. Yet I still agree with you about N2003. Using the bonnet view (first one that PgUp selects) I lose the claustrophobia (authentic though that might be) and get a couple of big immersive benefits. For a start the sense of speed is *amazing*, as you now get to see the grass and tarmac whizz past either side. It makes a huge difference to the experience for me, *much* more exciting, especially in traffic. This view also means I don't have that huge tractor steering wheel in the way reminding me I'm driving a tank :-) Yes, this slightly higher, wider angle does give a little more warning of what's going on around you, and it's this that I'm sort of uncomfortable with. But at the end of the day if I was racing for real I could put in a sunroof and pile a few cushions on the seat to give me the same viewpoint... so it's not *that* unrealistic ;o) Andrew McP

"Tim Paullin" said: > I've the same problem with my Sidewinder game pad. You can leave yourstick > plugged in though.... > I just go into Control Panel//Game Controllers and remove the pad and just > leave my LWFFGp in the window. Tim, I have my stick connected and "installed" at all times... perhaps it's down to what OS one's running? I'm on XP Pro and my joystick assignments (in windows) look like this: 1. M$FF wheel 2. M$ Sidewinder Force stick 3. Act-labs Perf. pedals. 4. Act-labs Usb-shifter In N2003 they're assigned like this (AFAIK): Axis 1 - M$FF Steering left/right axis 2 - nothing (used by stick ?) axis 3 - nothing (used by stick ?) asix 4 - Act-labs brake [second page] asis 5 - Act-labs throttle axis 6 - Act-labs clutch axis 7 - nothing (used by stick ?) axis 8 - nothing [3rd page] axis 9 - USB-shifter X-axis axis 10 - USB-shifter Y-axis axis 11 - nothing axis 12 - nothing I'm not having any problems with N2003 - but must uninstall the wheel from windows before loading BF1942. -- ed_

You know you can remove the steering wheel in the options. Vintook "Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <3f00faf4$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Bruce > Kennewell) wrote: > > > I cannot STAND the interior view in N2003 (or N4, for that matter). > > Gives me claustrophobia. > > In my heart I feel that anything other than the cockpit view is cheating a > bit. Yet I still agree with you about N2003. Using the bonnet view (first > one that PgUp selects) I lose the claustrophobia (authentic though that > might be) and get a couple of big immersive benefits. > > For a start the sense of speed is *amazing*, as you now get to see the > grass and tarmac whizz past either side. It makes a huge difference to the > experience for me, *much* more exciting, especially in traffic. > > This view also means I don't have that huge tractor steering wheel in the > way reminding me I'm driving a tank :-) > > Yes, this slightly higher, wider angle does give a little more warning of > what's going on around you, and it's this that I'm sort of uncomfortable > with. But at the end of the day if I was racing for real I could put in a > sunroof and pile a few cushions on the seat to give me the same > viewpoint... so it's not *that* unrealistic ;o) > > Andrew McP >

Bruce Kennewell wrote: > > I cannot STAND the interior view in N2003 (or N4, for that matter). > Gives me claustrophobia. > Roof cam allows for greater situational awareness, as far as I'm concerned. > > (At least I'm up-front enough to admit it!) Tsk tsk tsk, and here I thought you were a sim racer rather than just another gamer.....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

In article <SphMa.31184$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] () wrote: > You know you can remove the steering wheel in the options. Maybe years of GPL have warped my brain, because I feel there's something missing if I turn the wheel off in cockpit view. With the bonnet view I don't have that problem because the altered viewpoint makes it feel as if my desk wheel is in the right sort of place to be the real wheel... IYSWIM. Andrew McP

"Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3f019d3b$[email hidden]... > "Tim Paullin" said: > > > I've the same problem with my Sidewinder game pad. You can leave your > stick > > plugged in though.... > > I just go into Control Panel//Game Controllers and remove the pad andjust > > leave my LWFFGp in the window. > > Tim, > I have my stick connected and "installed" at all times... perhaps it'sdown

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> to what OS one's running? > I'm on XP Pro and my joystick assignments (in windows) look like this: > > 1. M$FF wheel > 2. M$ Sidewinder Force stick > 3. Act-labs Perf. pedals. > 4. Act-labs Usb-shifter > > In N2003 they're assigned like this (AFAIK): > > Axis 1 - M$FF Steering left/right > axis 2 - nothing (used by stick ?) > axis 3 - nothing (used by stick ?) > asix 4 - Act-labs brake > [second page] > asis 5 - Act-labs throttle > axis 6 - Act-labs clutch > axis 7 - nothing (used by stick ?) > axis 8 - nothing > [3rd page] > axis 9 - USB-shifter X-axis > axis 10 - USB-shifter Y-axis > axis 11 - nothing > axis 12 - nothing > > I'm not having any problems with N2003 - but must uninstall the wheel from > windows before loading BF1942. > > -- > ed_ > >

Ed, Mine looks alot like yours in N2003 when I don't remove the pad. The problem I have is that sometimes it won't recognize the pedals one time, the wheel the next. It's not that big of a deal to me to just remove the pad since it auto-detects easily. BTW I'm running XP Home. Tim

>BTW I'm running XP Home. My condolences... Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 02 Jul 2003 16:33:31 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >My condolences... I upgraded to XP Home from 98 by necessity (running more RAM than 98 can reliably address) and you could not pay me enough money to swtich back. Better drivers, better cpu and memory management, more customizability. Jason

Ive been saying that since the XP beta ;) I still must support a few 98 boxes but Im talkin em into an upgrade :) When I do have to mess with a 98 box it's like pulling teeth without novacaine. MItch "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > I upgraded to XP Home from 98 by necessity (running more RAM than 98 > can reliably address) and you could not pay me enough money to swtich > back. Better drivers, better cpu and memory management, more > customizability. > > Jason

"Jason Moyer" wrote... > <snip> > I upgraded to XP Home from 98 by necessity (running more > RAM than 98 can reliably address) and you could not pay > me enough money to swtich back. Better drivers, better > cpu and memory management, more customizability. Amen to that. I have to admit I had some, probably irrational, concerns about upgrading to XP, but it's been a case of so far so good for me too. Really enjoying it, actually, strange as that may sound. While we're somewhat on the issue is/was there an issue with GPL and >512MB memory (on any OS)? Jan. =---

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:41:19 GMT, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Amen to that. I have to admit I had some, probably irrational, concerns >about upgrading to XP, but it's been a case of so far so good for me too. >Really enjoying it, actually, strange as that may sound. Yeah, I hate Microsoft and I truly believe every OS they released before XP is a pile of garbage, especially all the previous versions of OS/2, er, I mean, NT. 2 things I've never ever had a problem with, however, are XP and their hardware line (Sidewinder joysticks/wheels). >While we're somewhat on the issue is/was there an issue with GPL and >512MB >memory (on any OS)? Not on my system. I actually discovered recently I had a stick of flaky RAM (was causing my system to crash when I was ripping CD's) and never a hint of a problem in GPL the whole time. Jason

Not strange at all, after years of OS hell there is something truly enjoyable about using a computer that you don't have to f*ck with all the time. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jLTMa.4300$[email hidden]... > > Amen to that. I have to admit I had some, probably irrational, concerns > about upgrading to XP, but it's been a case of so far so good for me too. > Really enjoying it, actually, strange as that may sound. >

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 14:48:59 GMT, [email hidden] (Jason Moyer) wrote:

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>On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:41:19 GMT, "Jan Verschueren" ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>Amen to that. I have to admit I had some, probably irrational, concerns >>about upgrading to XP, but it's been a case of so far so good for me too. >>Really enjoying it, actually, strange as that may sound. > >Yeah, I hate Microsoft and I truly believe every OS they released >before XP is a pile of garbage, especially all the previous versions >of OS/2, er, I mean, NT. 2 things I've never ever had a problem with, >however, are XP and their hardware line (Sidewinder joysticks/wheels).

I bought a laptop a couple of months ago and XP was pre-installed on it. I wanted to open the root of the c-drive but then I got some message that 'this was not allowed'. I messed for about half an hour with XP, then I formatted the drive and installed 98SE on it. You guys are all so positive about XP.. seems like I have to give XP a second chance.. Does all hardware work correctly with XP? SBLive 5.1, GF2 GTS, Momo? Does older software give problems under XP? Andre

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote: > Does all hardware work correctly with XP? SBLive 5.1, > GF2 GTS, Momo? Does older software give problems under XP? This machine runs XP, has had a GF3 & now GF4 in it, has an SBLive Value card, and a Momo attached without any problems I'm aware of. As for older software... depends on the software and how much you really *want* to run it. I can still dual boot to Win98, but I can't remember the last time I needed/wanted to. Installing XP on a machine with 98 on already is painless (was for me on the two occasions I've done it anyway!) though removing Win98 can cause problems if you're not careful. I wasn't :-) The basic Teletubbies interface of XP is a pain, but peel back the layers to the classic interface and you've got a very useful, solid, and <whisper>attractive</whisper> OS. For me cleartype fonts alone make it worth using. And I can't remember the last time I saw a BSOD on this box, or had it lock up on me in any way. Things do still crash occasionally, but always in a very polite fashion. Heck I even own two legit copies! Mind you, I have three machines I'd like to run it on. I miss Win98 a lot in that respect :-) Andrew McP

I was never able to get the SBLive to work properly under XP. It works okay for some games but in GPL and BF 1942 it was just plain messed up. None of the driver revisions that I tried helped. Some people have had some success getting it to work by turning down audio acceleration in the control panel, but in my case the amount that I had to turn it down to avoid problems made the sound quality unacceptable. However that is the only problem I have had, and as I have said in this ng before the SBLive is a five year old design, IOW it's like expecting current games to work acceptably with a Voodoo 2 card. The onboard sound on my new mobo works better than the SBLive ever did, and Audigy 1 cards can be had for a pretty reasonable price. As others have said, the total lack of blue screens from the day I first installed XP has been reason enough to make me feel like it was a worthwhile upgrade. "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 14:48:59 GMT, [email hidden] (Jason Moyer) > wrote: > > I bought a laptop a couple of months ago and XP was pre-installed on > it. I wanted to open the root of the c-drive but then I got some > message that 'this was not allowed'. I messed for about half an hour > with XP, then I formatted the drive and installed 98SE on it. > You guys are all so positive about XP.. seems like I have to give XP a > second chance.. Does all hardware work correctly with XP? SBLive 5.1, > GF2 GTS, Momo? Does older software give problems under XP? > > Andre

> I bought a laptop a couple of months ago and XP was pre-installed on > it. I wanted to open the root of the c-drive but then I got some > message that 'this was not allowed'. Never heard of this.. did you buy a demo laptop (one that was on the floor) that might have had security or passwords setup? My wife's laptop was the last one in the store, thus it was the demo machine. All we did was restore the laptop back to factory and she was all set.

"Andre Warringa" wrote... > <snip> > I bought a laptop a couple of months ago and XP was pre- > installed on it. I wanted to open the root of the c-drive > but then I got some message that 'this was not allowed'. It's normal for XP to hide those files. It can be overridden, but, really, there's nothing user adjustable in there anymore. config.sys and autoexec.bat are a thing of the past. > I messed for about half an hour with XP, then I formatted > the drive and installed 98SE on it. I'm not going back... in fact, I'm gonna find out what Voodoo3 support under XP is like and if that works, I'm upgrading my old box too (i.e. buying another copy) > You guys are all so positive about XP.. seems like I have > to give XP a second chance.. Does all hardware work > correctly with XP? SBLive 5.1, GF2 GTS, Momo? Does older > software give problems under XP? GF2: will probably need XP driver, but I think that shouldn't be a problem. SBLive... hmmm, I have a PCI512 (same core) and it works well, but GPL may give you fits with distorted sound sometimes. What's more: things that solve it for one person, don't necessarily solve it for the next. Personally, I just have to have some throttle on when going to the track or taking a reset and everything is fine. Momo: no probs whatsoever. Older software: Well, DOOM doesn't work anymore. UltraEdit setup crashed, the program works, but no start menu items, right click integration and file associations. That's about it, as far as I've encountered. Jan. =---

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 17:47:44 GMT, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Older software: Well, DOOM doesn't work anymore. Are you using the DOS version or the Windows exe? Jason

"Jason Moyer" wrote... > <snip> > Are you using the DOS version or the Windows exe? Doom_se... that's DOS. right? -Does the Windows one work? -Think I got that somewhere... Ultimate Doom or something? I installed GLDoom for the time being, but that won't play .lmps because it's a "different game version"...

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Jason Moyer) writes: >On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 17:47:44 GMT, "Jan Verschueren" ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>Older software: Well, DOOM doesn't work anymore. > >Are you using the DOS version or the Windows exe? I didn't know there WAS a windows version...? Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Jason Moyer) writes:

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>On 02 Jul 2003 16:33:31 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >>My condolences... > >I upgraded to XP Home from 98 by necessity (running more RAM than 98 >can reliably address) and you could not pay me enough money to swtich >back. Better drivers, better cpu and memory management, more >customizability.

Ok. I keep hearing people bitch about compatibility issues, poor system performance, lack of driver support, OS phoning back to MS, etc. I don't see any overwhelming need to upgrade. Win98se seems to work fine for me... Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... : In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Jason : Moyer) writes: : : >On 02 Jul 2003 16:33:31 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: : > : >>My condolences... : > : >I upgraded to XP Home from 98 by necessity (running more RAM than 98 : >can reliably address) and you could not pay me enough money to swtich : >back. Better drivers, better cpu and memory management, more : >customizability. : : Ok. I keep hearing people bitch about compatibility issues, poor system : performance, lack of driver support, OS phoning back to MS, etc. I don't see : any overwhelming need to upgrade. Win98se seems to work fine for me... : : Eldred : -- : Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my : homepage) : Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett : : Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. I stayed with windows98se for a long time, worked just fine till I got a bad, bad virus that would not go away, it can't see XP so that is what I use now. -- McWhom -----------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:40 +0100 (BST), [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote: -snip- >The basic Teletubbies interface of XP is a pain, but peel back the layers >to the classic interface and you've got a very useful, solid, and ><whisper>attractive</whisper> OS. For me cleartype fonts alone make it >worth using. -snip- Hi Andrew, Thanks for the info. 2 questions: Do you know a site with a step-by-step procedure how to get the classic interface back? And what are cleartype fonts? Cheers, Andre >Andrew McP

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 15:09:52 GMT, "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> I bought a laptop a couple of months ago and XP was pre-installed on >> it. I wanted to open the root of the c-drive but then I got some >> message that 'this was not allowed'. > >Never heard of this.. did you buy a demo laptop (one that was on the floor) >that might have had security or passwords setup? No, I was in Germany for my work and I needed a computer urgently, so I bought one there, not a demo model. That was also a reason for me to quickly format the HD and install another OS: The standard installed XP and other software was all in German :) I had to copy some files from disk to the HD, and this caused me a lot of time to do since I could not open the root of C, I could only copy it to some default folders. I got some many 'you can't do this, are you really really sure you want this, you are a fool to click on this' messages that lead me to a quick format c: :) Andre

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 00:34:16 GMT, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote: >Thanks for the info. 2 questions: Do you know a site with a >step-by-step procedure how to get the classic interface back? >And what are cleartype fonts? First, for performance reasons, I recommend scouring the net for an XP services tweak guide, so you don't have tons of unnecessary services running. Msconfig is part of XP as it was in ME/98/95 so TSR's being called from that can be edited in the same manner. Interface wise here's how you get the "classic look" and remove all of the animated/resource hogging garbage: 1. in display properties, change your theme to "windows classic" 2. on the desktop tab, you can select which icons appear on your desktop by clicking the 'customize desktop' button (pretty swank if you find my computer/network neighborhood/etc are a waste of desktop space) 3. on the appearance tab the "effects" button lets you disable all of the lame animated shit That's it for the display properties menu. Some other stuff: 1. right click on the taskbar. there are lots of new goodies you can enable/disable from here. i recommend using 'classic start menu' instead of the default one which is incredibly useless. you can also customize the start menu and toolbar further from there. 2. customizing folder appearance and such works similarly to windows 98, just go into microsoft explorer and select "tools-->folder options" That should just about do it, hopefully I haven't missed something obvious. I recommend poking around the control panel as with any other version of Windows just to get comfortable with it and adjust settings. Jason

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 00:48:44 GMT, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote: >I had to copy some files from disk to the HD, and this caused me a lot >of time to do since I could not open the root of C, I could only copy >it to some default folders. I got some many 'you can't do this, are >you really really sure you want this, you are a fool to click on this' >messages that lead me to a quick format c: :) Oh yeah, one other thing I missed in my last post (well only touched briefly): Go into windows explorer, select tools-->folder options and go to the view tab. You can disable all of the "hide folders" and "protect folders" and "hide known file types" shit there (basically the same as Win95/98/ME but with more annoying options enabled by default). Jason

"EldredP" said: > Ok. I keep hearing people bitch about compatibility issues, poor system > performance, lack of driver support, OS phoning back to MS, etc. I don'tsee > any overwhelming need to upgrade. Win98se seems to work fine for me... Eldred, As other's have mentioend.. XP really is the first Windows version theat actually work like it should. Especially when it comes to networking and installing "things" (forget the word...scanners, printers etc you get the picture) There's no way in hell I'll go back to Win98se now - or Win2K for that matter! -- ed_

In article <3f064a8d$[email hidden]>, "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> writes: >Eldred, >As other's have mentioend.. XP really is the first Windows version theat >actually work like it should. >Especially when it comes to networking and installing "things" (forget the >word...scanners, printers etc you get the picture) Peripherals...<g> I hadn't had problems installing that stuff with Win98se either. Oh well - different strokes... Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Jason's done a great job of covering the classic interface, which leaves me with... > And what are cleartype fonts? http://www.microsoft.com/typography/cleartype/default.htm Basically antialiasing for words, which is almost as excellent as antialiasing for GPL. It's an easily altered setting just like the (useless) font smoothing IN 98. It's easily my favourite part of XP... but that's probably because I've been deprived of decent antialiased fonts since I stopped using an Acorn computer nine years ago! Andrew McP

> > And what are cleartype fonts? > > http://www.microsoft.com/typography/cleartype/default.htm Holy cow! What a difference! I had mine turned off. *Great link!* Thank you soooooooooo much Andrew! Psst! Does it eat much resources from the PC? -- ed_

In article <3f067b41$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Ed Solheim) wrote: > *Great link!* Can't believe everyone isn't using it already. Fontastic isn't it! <groan> > Psst! Does it eat much resources from the PC? As far as I can tell it doesn't make any difference to my 3dmark2001 scores ;-) I've no idea to be honest Ed. All I know is it's worth the sacrifice whatever resources it uses. Of course some people turn it on and just say "so?" Can't please all of the people all of the time I guess, but for anyone who spends much time starting at text on their PCs it's a big step forward IMO. Funnily enough it's often most obvious in Internet Explorer, where pages with multiple fonts and strange styles can suddenly become much more readable. Andrew McP PS for anyone else wondering, it's in display properties/appearance tab/effects/"use the following method to smooth edges" etc. The default setting is "standard", cleartype is the other option.

"Andrew MacPherson" wrote... > <snip> > Basically antialiasing for words, which is almost as > excellent as antialiasing for GPL. It's an easily > altered setting just like the (useless) font > smoothing IN 98. It's easily my favourite part of XP > <snip> Wow... that does make a difference. Thanks! Jan. =---

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 03:24:22 GMT, [email hidden] (Jason Moyer) wrote: -snip- >That should just about do it, hopefully I haven't missed something >obvious. I recommend poking around the control panel as with any >other version of Windows just to get comfortable with it and adjust >settings. > >Jason Thanks for all the good info guys, this weekend I'll install XP.. wish me luck ;) Andre

-snip- Thanks for all the good info guys, this weekend I'll install XP.. wish me luck ;) Andre

Andrew MacPherson wrote:

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> > In article <3f067b41$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Ed > Solheim) wrote: > > > *Great link!* > > Can't believe everyone isn't using it already. Fontastic isn't it! <groan> > > Psst! Does it eat much resources from the PC? > > As far as I can tell it doesn't make any difference to my 3dmark2001 > scores ;-) > > I've no idea to be honest Ed. All I know is it's worth the sacrifice > whatever resources it uses. > > Of course some people turn it on and just say "so?" Can't please all of > the people all of the time I guess, but for anyone who spends much time > starting at text on their PCs it's a big step forward IMO. > > Funnily enough it's often most obvious in Internet Explorer, where pages > with multiple fonts and strange styles can suddenly become much more > readable.

Try opening something in Notepad, that'll show people the difference :-) Thx for the tip btw, works great on this PC with an R8500 card, however on my shop PC with a rather ancient Ati Rage128 card the desktop icons now has a black line around them and in some progs I have a slight blurriness (?), I'll play with the settings some more on Monday and try some different drivers, looked fine on my backup computer at the shop as well, with and even older Matrox card Oh yeah, and the web interface doesn't work in Opera.....damn Microsoft :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 18:25:14 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: >Oh yeah, and the web interface doesn't work in Opera.....damn Microsoft :D Andre

Andre Warringa wrote:

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> > On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 18:25:14 +0200, Goy Larsen > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Oh yeah, and the web interface doesn't work in Opera.....damn Microsoft > > :D > > Andre

Knew that one wouldn't be lost on you :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

On a sad note, Enabling cleartype seem to drop my N2003 framerate by about 20 - so i had to turn it off again :-( -- ed_ http://rascar.racesimcentral.com --------------------------------------- $10 say Petter Solberg wins the 2003 WRC

"Ed Solheim" wrote... > On a sad note, > Enabling cleartype seem to drop my N2003 framerate by > about 20 - so i had to turn it off again :-( Shouldn't have any effect (2D and 3D are seperate things). I don't notice a difference anyway. Jan. =---

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 20:45:45 GMT, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Doom_se... that's DOS. right? -Does the Windows one work? -Think I got that >somewhere... Ultimate Doom or something? Well, there was a recent reissue of Doom 1/2/3 and Spear of Destiny that apparently contain win-32 executables (?). I haven't tried them, but I figured I'd ask. >I installed GLDoom for the time being, but that won't play .lmps because >it's a "different game version"... Weird... Jason

On 04 Jul 2003 20:46:28 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >I didn't know there WAS a windows version...? I believe Id released an official one (also one for Wolf3d/SoD) a year or so ago, but there's always the unofficial: http://doomworld.com/doom4win/ Jason

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I didn't know there WAS a windows version...? Doom95.exe. It loads as a config window where you can select Doom, Doom 2, Plutonia, TNT (Whatever those last 2 are, I don't have a clue).

Someone asked me to add a network printer to their 98 install a couple of weeks ago, and I actually had to _think_ about it :) -Larry "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UeJMa.308$[email hidden]...

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> Ive been saying that since the XP beta ;) > > I still must support a few 98 boxes but Im talkin em into an upgrade :) > When I do have to mess with a 98 box it's like pulling teeth without > novacaine. > > MItch > > > "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > I upgraded to XP Home from 98 by necessity (running more RAM than 98 > > can reliably address) and you could not pay me enough money to swtich > > back. Better drivers, better cpu and memory management, more > > customizability. > > > > Jason > >

Then you would really think the real thing sucks :) Larry "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3f00faf4$[email hidden]... > I cannot STAND the interior view in N2003 (or N4, for that matter). > Gives me claustrophobia. > Roof cam allows for greater situational awareness, as far as I'mconcerned.

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> > (At least I'm up-front enough to admit it!) > > Bruce. > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > Actually, since you're admitting to using the roof view you should be > > burned at the stake..... > > > >

I do this (I suspect many do), but I think Papy should have done something other than leaving the bare steering shaft staring out at you... Just seeing the dash would have been sufficient at this point. -Larry "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SphMa.31184$[email hidden]...

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> You know you can remove the steering wheel in the options. > > Vintook > > "Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <3f00faf4$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Bruce > > Kennewell) wrote: > > > > > I cannot STAND the interior view in N2003 (or N4, for that matter). > > > Gives me claustrophobia. > > > > In my heart I feel that anything other than the cockpit view is cheating

a > > bit. Yet I still agree with you about N2003. Using the bonnet view(first > > one that PgUp selects) I lose the claustrophobia (authentic though that > > might be) and get a couple of big immersive benefits. > > > > For a start the sense of speed is *amazing*, as you now get to see the > > grass and tarmac whizz past either side. It makes a huge difference tothe > > experience for me, *much* more exciting, especially in traffic. > > > > This view also means I don't have that huge tractor steering wheel inthe > > way reminding me I'm driving a tank :-) > > > > Yes, this slightly higher, wider angle does give a little more warningof > > what's going on around you, and it's this that I'm sort of uncomfortable > > with. But at the end of the day if I was racing for real I could put ina

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> > sunroof and pile a few cushions on the seat to give me the same > > viewpoint... so it's not *that* unrealistic ;o) > > > > Andrew McP > > > >

Sometime around 94' MS came out with Doom/WinGee. WinGee is the precursor to DirectX. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZHlNa.6328$[email hidden]... > "Jason Moyer" wrote... > > <snip> > > Are you using the DOS version or the Windows exe? > > Doom_se... that's DOS. right? -Does the Windows one work? -Think I gotthat > somewhere... Ultimate Doom or something? >

You couldnt open the Root dir of C:? By default explorer opens My Documents but you still have full access to the HD. The message wont do any formatting <g> its strictly another layer of newb protection :) "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > I had to copy some files from disk to the HD, and this caused me a lot

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> of time to do since I could not open the root of C, I could only copy > it to some default folders. I got some many 'you can't do this, are > you really really sure you want this, you are a fool to click on this' > messages that lead me to a quick format c: :) > > Andre >