RASCAR - Chicacoland

Well, someone spun in front of Dave on lap 1 or 2 so dave just slows down and gets loose and i have nowhere to go and bamm. :-( I better not say more

>>Well, someone spun in front of Dave on lap 1 or 2 so dave just slows downand gets loose and i have nowhere to go and bamm. :-( << tough break Frederickson...I was right behind you and managed to squeeze by on the outside. I then caused the second yellow when, running by myself, not pressing and being EXTRA careful, the car got away from me in turn three and I spun by myself. Just kept pitting under yellows and then stayed out and was in second behind Brian for the better part of the long yellow flag run. When we went green around lap 40 or so, my tires were shot and I made my way back to ninth. Pitted and on the next long run, finally had to let Jan and Kkrent (?) after battling and then had a handful with Grubbat at the end. We got together with 1.5 to go...but a lot of fun. Thanks all. Mike PS...I dont type very well while driving and leave it to a minimum...but it is EXTRA annoying to try to concentrate and see a line blip across the screen and see the same message over and over. Trust me, Ed. We are being EXTRA careful. Really. EXTRA - EXTRA careful. And sometimes it doesnt help. Sometimes we just make a little mistake, like clipping the apron, and spinning. It just happens. Mike :))

Well, I thought long and hard before even considering racing because of my current physical limitation (my "steering" arm was the one that was hurt). I loaded up the sim and turned on auto trans, stability control, and a touch of steering assistance to help keep myself out of trouble, and decided I could drive well enough without getting into trouble. To avoid causing problems early on, I even qual'd in the back. It worked out just fine until lap 69. The 15 got wall-glued but in the act of freeing himself, he turned down in front of me as I was passing him, and I spun him around. I braked hard to keep from hitting him again, and came to an almost complete stop in the process. I had just started getting going again when the 00 car butt-fucked me into the outside wall, and then the 19 car came barreling through the smoke, t-boned me, and tumbled me down the track. That was the end of my engine and my race. At the time I was running 8th and maintaining touch with the lead cars. I had also managed to avoid a number of earlier accidents by SLOWING THE FUCK DOWN when I saw smoke. Needless to say, I'm pissed about being pile-driven (in how many racces has this happened to me this season? Three? Four?) because somone was paying more attention to their fucking mirrors than their windshields.

Cant we force smoke on? And we need to go back to realistic damage so Darwin can work his magic.

In article <GY_Pa.92470$[email hidden]>, "frederickson" <[email hidden]> writes: >Well, someone spun in front of Dave on lap 1 or 2 so dave just slows down >and gets loose and i have nowhere to go and bamm. :-( > >I better not say more Out of curiousity, what should David have done? Plowed into the car that got loose? Not a flame, just wondering what you think... Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> >Well, someone spun in front of Dave on lap 1 or 2 so dave just slows down > >and gets loose and i have nowhere to go and bamm. :-( > > > >I better not say more > > Out of curiousity, what should David have done? Plowed into the car thatgot > loose? Not a flame, just wondering what you think... Well, in general, its just my opinion that sometimes people are too quick to slow down when someone spins in front of them. Its kind of controversial I guess, but i think that some accidents can be avoided without necessarilly slamming on the brakes. I think I read it somewhere. In this case I think if dave let off the gas a little and stayed low he wouldnt have hit anything and not lost control. Thats what I generally do in pickup races since they are so chaotic. Now, if there is a huge wreck in front of you then yes obviously you gotta slow down. What I think though is when a car spins by itself, its always gonna slide outside, so there is a while where you can go under him without just slamming the brakes. Especially on such a slick track, where slowing suddenly tends to unsettle the car and make things worse.

In article <_K0Qa.10584$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Cant we force smoke on? And we need to go back to realistic damage so Darwin > can work his magic. > > > Forcing smoke on is not an option in nr2k3 (as far as i know).

"frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:v31Qa.10591$[email hidden]... > > >Well, someone spun in front of Dave on lap 1 or 2 so dave just slowsdown > > >and gets loose and i have nowhere to go and bamm. :-( > > > > > >I better not say more > > > > Out of curiousity, what should David have done? Plowed into the carthat > got > > loose? Not a flame, just wondering what you think... > > Well, in general, its just my opinion that sometimes people are too quickto > slow down when someone spins in front of them. Its kind of controversial I > guess, but i think that some accidents can be avoided without necessarilly > slamming on the brakes. I think I read it somewhere. In this case I thinkif > dave let off the gas a little and stayed low he wouldnt have hit anything > and not lost control. Thats what I generally do in pickup races since they > are so chaotic. Now, if there is a huge wreck in front of you then yes > obviously you gotta slow down. What I think though is when a car spins by > itself, its always gonna slide outside, so there is a while where you cango > under him without just slamming the brakes. Especially on such a slick > track, where slowing suddenly tends to unsettle the car and make things > worse. I didn't slam on the brakes. Brian (who's entitled to a rare mistake) got loose and suddenly slowed about 17mph in front of me on lap 2 when I'm guessing everyone's tires were still cold. He didn't drift way up the track though so there wasn't room to just keep plowing on by the inside without risking a wreck. I lifted, and applied very little (if any brake) initially. I had to go low because he was moving up a bit as he was correcting. The rear end came out and when I hit the apron I had to apply the brakes (otherwise I might have gone up the track and wiped out the field) and actually ended up saving the car right before you hit me. There is a replay here http://mywebpages.comcast.net/davegf/ and you can see what I did. When I looked at your view, you seemed to just get sucked right into me when the right side was wide open. David G Fisher

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > The 15 got wall-glued but in the act of freeing himself, he turned > down in front of me as I was passing him, and I spun him around. I > braked hard to keep from hitting him again, and came to an almost > complete stop in the process. I had just started getting going again > when the 00 car butt-fucked me into the outside wall, and then the 19 > car came barreling through the smoke, t-boned me, and tumbled me > down the track. That was the end of my engine and my race.

That's right. We were having a great time battling each other during the previous laps, but then we clearly saw you sitting still there at the exit of T2 and decide we'd rather crash into you instead. David G Fisher

"David G Fisher" wrote... > <snip> > That's right. We were having a great time battling each > other during the previous laps, but then we clearly saw > you sitting still there at the exit of T2 and decide > we'd rather crash into you instead. Hehehe... nice bit of sarcasm Dave. Doubt it will go down well with our injured Mr. Simmons, tough. FWIW, from my replay it appears neither you nor Mark had a chance in hell to avoid that one (Grub tried, but was doomed). From my view it didn't appear that a secondary incident (i.e one not involving the car stopped on the apron) had taken place until John appeared tumbling down the back straight. Fortunately I was far enough back to respond and avoid. To be honest my recollection of the incident was flawed... my awareness was triggered by the smoke from the Simmons/Farmer incident, but I didn't make the cause/effect link with John tumbling down the back straight and the trio ahead of me at the time. Hence he seemed to appear out of nowhere to me. Like I said, fortunately I was in a position to slow and allow myself time to (sort of, as I didn't draw the right conclusion) analyse the situation and avoid further contact. Luckily, despite acting on flawed observation, I did the right thing and kept myself out of trouble. Jan. =---

In article <sU1Qa.4086$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> "David G Fisher" wrote... > > <snip> > > That's right. We were having a great time battling each > > other during the previous laps, but then we clearly saw > > you sitting still there at the exit of T2 and decide > > we'd rather crash into you instead. > > Hehehe... nice bit of sarcasm Dave. Doubt it will go down well with our > injured Mr. Simmons, tough.

I merely described the incidents of contact as they happened. > > FWIW, from my replay it appears neither you nor Mark had a chance in hell to > avoid that one (Grub tried, but was doomed). That's a crock because the 28 car managed it well enough. Mark is the one I'm the most pissed at. He didn't lift at all, despite being able to see clearly that there was a problem ahead. The only reason Dave hit me was because Mark sent me into the outside wall. If he and grub had lifted when they saw the smoke, the chances were pretty good that they would have made it through okay. If all of you had slowed, I would probably have still finished the race (several spots down, but no more than one lap down). Mark wasn't blinking in/out, and neither was I, so "I didn't see the big cloud of white smoke" is pretty much a crock of shit. > To be honest my recollection of the incident was flawed... my awareness was > triggered by the smoke from the Simmons/Farmer incident, but I didn't make > the cause/effect link with John tumbling down the back straight and the trio > ahead of me at the time. Hence he seemed to appear out of nowhere to me. I appeared out of nowhere for you because Dave hit me hard enough to send me pretty high up into the air, and while your connection has improved greatly, I think your system updates a little late. In any event you were lucky enough to escape the whole thing without a scratch. I've said my piece, and I'm done with it, but everyone better damn well pay attention to my "IMPORTANT - READ THIS" post.

In my unofficial capacity as Chief Steward I've viewed this replay video over and over, in normal speed, slow speed and frame-by-frame. My unequivocal finding is that David has told it how it was......he was decelerating *before* applying any braking and his initial application was a touch, then followed by full braking once the car started to go. Therefore this court finds for the plaintiff. Court adjourned! Bruce. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > I didn't slam on the brakes. ..................etc.

> I didn't slam on the brakes. > Brian (who's entitled to a rare mistake) got loose and suddenly slowedabout > 17mph in front of me on lap 2 when I'm guessing everyone's tires werestill > cold. He didn't drift way up the track though so there wasn't room to just > keep plowing on by the inside without risking a wreck. I lifted, andapplied > very little (if any brake) initially. I had to go low because he wasmoving > up a bit as he was correcting. The rear end came out and when I hit the > apron I had to apply the brakes (otherwise I might have gone up the track > and wiped out the field) and actually ended up saving the car right before > you hit me. There is a replay here http://mywebpages.comcast.net/davegf/and > you can see what I did. When I looked at your view, you seemed to just get > sucked right into me when the right side was wide open. Damn you're right... now i see what happened, when you hit the apron you started to spin, and I thought you would slide up the track, so I went low. Then by the time you saved it I was already heading your way. I dont think I ever had the chance to notice the car in front of you saved it.

"frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3%2Qa.10615$[email hidden]... > > I didn't slam on the brakes. > > Brian (who's entitled to a rare mistake) got loose and suddenly slowed > about > > 17mph in front of me on lap 2 when I'm guessing everyone's tires were > still > > cold. He didn't drift way up the track though so there wasn't room tojust > > keep plowing on by the inside without risking a wreck. I lifted, and > applied > > very little (if any brake) initially. Watching it again though, it was this little braking that got you spinning.. I still think you could have just coasted through there. Thats why i never left foot brake.

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I had just started getting going again when the 00 car butt-fucked meinto the outside wall, and then the 19 > car came barreling through the smoke, t-boned me, and tumbled me downthe track. That was the end of my engine and my race. > > At the time I was running 8th and maintaining touch with the lead > cars. I had also managed to avoid a number of earlier accidents by > SLOWING THE FUCK DOWN when I saw smoke. > Pure poetry...

into the outside wall, and then the 19 the track. That was the end of my engine and my race. Pure poetry...

"frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_K0Qa.10584$[email hidden]... > Cant we force smoke on? And we need to go back to realistic damage soDarwin > can work his magic. LOL ;o) Elrikk

OK, since I am accused of starting the whole thing and I have my replay which I have had a chance to view I will give my version. I got into T3 wrong my car wiggled a little and I had to get out of the gas and go up the track to catch it. I didn't slow too dramatically and I definetly wasn't spinning in front of anyone. Quite fankly, I feel like I was way up the track catching the car leaving plenty of room on the bottom. Dave went under me and it looked like he touched the apron and got loose himself and then he checked up pretty hard to catch his car and someone got into the back of him. Just a racing deal too me. Honestly, after reviewing the replay I don't really feel like I am too blame, I got a little loose and had to chase it up the track... I think Dave was under me fine and everyone had plenty of room to get by. I will often follow a car waiting for them to make a similiar mistake too get an easy pass instead of going for the aggressive pass. I can understand if Dave spun himself out trying too keep from running into the back of me, but this wasn't the case and I think the replay clearly shows this. Again I think it was just one of those racing deals... Brian Oster On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:14:26 -0400, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:v31Qa.10591$[email hidden]... >> > >Well, someone spun in front of Dave on lap 1 or 2 so dave just slows >down >> > >and gets loose and i have nowhere to go and bamm. :-( >> > > >> > >I better not say more >> > >> > Out of curiousity, what should David have done? Plowed into the car >that >> got >> > loose? Not a flame, just wondering what you think... >> >> Well, in general, its just my opinion that sometimes people are too quick >to >> slow down when someone spins in front of them. Its kind of controversial I >> guess, but i think that some accidents can be avoided without necessarilly >> slamming on the brakes. I think I read it somewhere. In this case I think >if >> dave let off the gas a little and stayed low he wouldnt have hit anything >> and not lost control. Thats what I generally do in pickup races since they >> are so chaotic. Now, if there is a huge wreck in front of you then yes >> obviously you gotta slow down. What I think though is when a car spins by >> itself, its always gonna slide outside, so there is a while where you can >go >> under him without just slamming the brakes. Especially on such a slick >> track, where slowing suddenly tends to unsettle the car and make things >> worse. > >I didn't slam on the brakes. >Brian (who's entitled to a rare mistake) got loose and suddenly slowed about >17mph in front of me on lap 2 when I'm guessing everyone's tires were still >cold. He didn't drift way up the track though so there wasn't room to just >keep plowing on by the inside without risking a wreck. I lifted, and applied >very little (if any brake) initially. I had to go low because he was moving >up a bit as he was correcting. The rear end came out and when I hit the >apron I had to apply the brakes (otherwise I might have gone up the track >and wiped out the field) and actually ended up saving the car right before >you hit me. There is a replay here http://mywebpages.comcast.net/davegf/ and >you can see what I did. When I looked at your view, you seemed to just get >sucked right into me when the right side was wide open. > >David G Fisher > > >

"Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> OK, since I am accused of starting the whole thing and I have my > replay which I have had a chance to view I will give my version. I > got into T3 wrong my car wiggled a little and I had to get out of the > gas and go up the track to catch it. I didn't slow too dramatically > and I definetly wasn't spinning in front of anyone. Quite fankly, I > feel like I was way up the track catching the car leaving plenty of > room on the bottom. Dave went under me and it looked like he touched > the apron and got loose himself and then he checked up pretty hard to > catch his car and someone got into the back of him. Just a racing > deal too me. Honestly, after reviewing the replay I don't really feel > like I am too blame, I got a little loose and had to chase it up the > track... I think Dave was under me fine and everyone had plenty of > room to get by. I will often follow a car waiting for them to make a > similiar mistake too get an easy pass instead of going for the > aggressive pass. I can understand if Dave spun himself out trying too > keep from running into the back of me, but this wasn't the case and I > think the replay clearly shows this. Again I think it was just one of > those racing deals... > > Brian Oster

I'm not blaming you at all. It was just one of those things as far as I'm concerned too, but it seems like frederickson and now you are both blaming me. If you use the black Dodge sign as a reference point as you enter that turn, most of us are in the low 170's while you were suddenly at 150. You came back at me REAL quick. A 20 mph difference IS a dramatic slowdown. Even if it's 15mph, that's still huge. Look how close you are to Ed as you enter the turn, and then how far ahead he is as you come on the straight. You ended up in the 140's, while we would normally be in the 160's in the middle of that turn. First you started towards the apron, and then you went back up and got control. It was impossible for me to judge in a fraction of a second which way on the track you were ultimately headed, or whether you were even going to get it together at all. I had to slow, and suddenly slowing that much on cold tires (beginning of lap 2), at that point of the turn, caused my back end to come around. If I could of gotten back on the gas when I normally would have, everything would of been fine with my car, but I couldn't do that while you were wiggling in front of me. I did actually get my car under control though right before I was hit. Last week I thought you were superb at Daytona and I was hoping to draft with you all the way until the end of that race, so don't think I'm a critic of your drivng. Just the opposite. I didn't give a damn about this until it was brought up here at ras. David G Fisher

They seem to be finding me guilty on all other counts though. :-o David G Fisher "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In my unofficial capacity as Chief Steward I've viewed this replay video > over and over, in normal speed, slow speed and frame-by-frame. > My unequivocal finding is that David has told it how it was......he was > decelerating *before* applying any braking and his initial application wasa

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> touch, then followed by full braking once the car started to go. > > Therefore this court finds for the plaintiff. > > Court adjourned! > > Bruce. > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > I didn't slam on the brakes. ..................etc. > >

Guess it was the right weekend to start painting the house <g> Dan

"frederickson" wrote... > <snip> > Watching it again though, it was this little braking that > got you spinning.. I still think you could have just coasted > through there. Thats why i never left foot brake. At that stage of a stint I can't coast the car and stay in control, period. I have to brake against neutral throttle to stay in control. That's the whole problem with this setup stuff, it's rig/driver dependant. Jan. =---

Very easy to be wise in hindsight; some so-called "historians" get as fat as leeches using this "rear-view wisdom". :) "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:d23Qa.10633$[email hidden]... > Watching it again though, it was this little braking that got youspinning.. > I still think you could have just coasted through there. Thats why inever > left foot brake. > >

In article <fI3Qa.394982$[email hidden]>, "KnektR" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> I had just started getting going again when the 00 car butt-fucked me >into the outside wall, and then the 19 >> car came barreling through the smoke, t-boned me, and tumbled me down >the track. That was the end of my engine and my race. >> >> At the time I was running 8th and maintaining touch with the lead >> cars. I had also managed to avoid a number of earlier accidents by >> SLOWING THE FUCK DOWN when I saw smoke. >> > > > >Pure poetry...

Pure Simmons...<g> Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

If i had of had anti-lock turned on, I might have stopped in time. That track was just so slick. I hit the wall trying to avoid ya and blew some tires in the process but still managed to make contact. Next time, flip to the infield. :) That being said, I never was comfortable with the car. When I got on yesterday, all of my normal settings were messed up. During one of the pit stops i found a box checked on the options menu that I never use. I had a fast car but I couldn't pass and then hold the line. Me and 19 did a couple of passes and repasses because of my looseness. I knew that jan was behind me and didn't want to just turn left so I kept my line and hit the wall. I got off the throttle when the smoke started and then on the brakes. I thought that John was doing great racing injured. later. grub "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <sU1Qa.4086$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > "David G Fisher" wrote... > > > <snip> > > > That's right. We were having a great time battling each > > > other during the previous laps, but then we clearly saw > > > you sitting still there at the exit of T2 and decide > > > we'd rather crash into you instead. > > > > Hehehe... nice bit of sarcasm Dave. Doubt it will go down well with our > > injured Mr. Simmons, tough. > > I merely described the incidents of contact as they happened. > > > > > FWIW, from my replay it appears neither you nor Mark had a chance in

hell to

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> > avoid that one (Grub tried, but was doomed). > > That's a crock because the 28 car managed it well enough. Mark is the > one I'm the most pissed at. He didn't lift at all, despite being able > to see clearly that there was a problem ahead. The only reason Dave > hit me was because Mark sent me into the outside wall. If he and > grub had lifted when they saw the smoke, the chances were pretty good > that they would have made it through okay. If all of you had slowed, > I would probably have still finished the race (several spots down, > but no more than one lap down). > > Mark wasn't blinking in/out, and neither was I, so "I didn't see the > big cloud of white smoke" is pretty much a crock of shit. > > > To be honest my recollection of the incident was flawed... my awareness

was > > triggered by the smoke from the Simmons/Farmer incident, but I didn'tmake > > the cause/effect link with John tumbling down the back straight and thetrio

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> > ahead of me at the time. Hence he seemed to appear out of nowhere to me. > > I appeared out of nowhere for you because Dave hit me hard enough to > send me pretty high up into the air, and while your connection has > improved greatly, I think your system updates a little late. In any > event you were lucky enough to escape the whole thing without a > scratch. > > I've said my piece, and I'm done with it, but everyone better damn > well pay attention to my "IMPORTANT - READ THIS" post.

In article <[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: >I'm not blaming you at all. It was just one of those things as far as I'm >concerned too, but it seems like frederickson and now you are both blaming >me. If you use the black Dodge sign as a reference point as you enter that >turn, most of us are in the low 170's while you were suddenly at 150. You >came back at me REAL quick. A 20 mph difference IS a dramatic slowdown. Even >if it's 15mph, that's still huge. Did you guys ever think that maybe some of us HAVE to slow down that much in order to make the turn? Just because you can make it at 170, doesn't mean all of us can. I don't know about actual speeds, but there were people who could carry MUCH more speed than I could. If I'd been in front of such a pack, I guess you'd be saying the same things about me... Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "grub" <[email hidden]> writes: >That being said, I never was comfortable with the car. When I got on >yesterday, all of my normal settings were messed up. During one of the pit >stops i found a box checked on the options menu that I never use. What options can you see(and change) after you're already in the car? Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> What options can you see(and change) after you're already in the car? > > Eldred all of them....

While in the pit, you can choose options. I unchecked the box for more control at slow speeds, increased the linear response, decreased driving assistance, and a couple of other tweeks. I think, after changing my carfile name, the game reset all the setting to default. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, "grub" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >That being said, I never was comfortable with the car. When I got on > >yesterday, all of my normal settings were messed up. During one of thepit

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> >stops i found a box checked on the options menu that I never use. > > What options can you see(and change) after you're already in the car? > > Eldred > -- > Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on

my > homepage) > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... : In article <[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" : <[email hidden]> writes: : : >I'm not blaming you at all. It was just one of those things as far as I'm : >concerned too, but it seems like frederickson and now you are both blaming : >me. If you use the black Dodge sign as a reference point as you enter that : >turn, most of us are in the low 170's while you were suddenly at 150. You : >came back at me REAL quick. A 20 mph difference IS a dramatic slowdown. Even : >if it's 15mph, that's still huge. : : Did you guys ever think that maybe some of us HAVE to slow down that much in : order to make the turn? Just because you can make it at 170, doesn't mean all : of us can. I don't know about actual speeds, but there were people who could : carry MUCH more speed than I could. If I'd been in front of such a pack, I : guess you'd be saying the same things about me... : : Eldred : -- : Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my : homepage) : Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett : : Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. Yep, yep... I got ass ended by larry in one of my early races with you guys and he was saying "you slowed way down". Heck, I thought I was just entering the corner :-\ I have to say one thing guys, this thread illustrates why I was not at Chicagoland and likely will not race with rascar again. While there are boneheaded moves made and some mention should be made, perhaps in a private email with a polite attitude, most of the incidents are related to warp or "just plain racin'!". Perhaps a one day cooling down period would be appropriate before posting to the NG. For those insisting that racing through wrecks at speed or fighting for a position despite the danger is a punishable offense that should never happen, I suggest you actually watch a BGN or Winston Cup race. The boneheads are there in real life, and when the poor bastard that was taken out has a few choice words with the reporter he is usually lambasted for having bad form or being a whiner. you want realism?? you got it!! -- McWhom -----------------------------------------------------------------

LOL. This may be the most over-analyzed 5 seconds of racing in RASCAR history. Didn't mean to give the impression I was blaming you, and by that I mean, it was all your fault. :) Seriously though, I can definitely understand when a car in front of you does something unexpected it can mess up your line so I can see your point. I will have to go back and look at the replay a little closer and more specifically from YOUR in-car camera. Again, I don't think it was really anyones fault just one of those deals. I have allways had problems with T3 at Chicago... Brian Oster

On 13 Jul 2003 05:57:05 GMT, [email hidden] (Bamadano) wrote: >Guess it was the right weekend to start painting the house <g> >Dan Actually it was a pretty typical race. A ton of early cautions, with the last half of the race having some pretty long green runs. Brian Oster

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > : In article <[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" > : <[email hidden]> writes: > : > : >I'm not blaming you at all. It was just one of those things as far as I'm > : >concerned too, but it seems like frederickson and now you are both > blaming > : >me. If you use the black Dodge sign as a reference point as you enter > that > : >turn, most of us are in the low 170's while you were suddenly at 150. You > : >came back at me REAL quick. A 20 mph difference IS a dramatic slowdown. > Even > : >if it's 15mph, that's still huge. > : > : Did you guys ever think that maybe some of us HAVE to slow down that much > in > : order to make the turn? Just because you can make it at 170, doesn't mean > all > : of us can. I don't know about actual speeds, but there were people who > could > : carry MUCH more speed than I could. If I'd been in front of such a pack, > I > : guess you'd be saying the same things about me... > : > : Eldred > : -- > : Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on > my > : homepage) > : Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > : > : Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > Yep, yep... I got ass ended by larry in one of my early races with you guys > and he was saying "you slowed way down". Heck, I thought I was just > entering the corner :-\ > > I have to say one thing guys, this thread illustrates why I was not at > Chicagoland and likely will not race with rascar again. While there are > boneheaded moves made and some mention should be made, perhaps in a private > email with a polite attitude, most of the incidents are related to warp or > "just plain racin'!". Perhaps a one day cooling down period would be > appropriate before posting to the NG. > For those insisting that racing through wrecks at speed or fighting for a > position despite the danger is a punishable offense that should never > happen, I suggest you actually watch a BGN or Winston Cup race. The > boneheads are there in real life, and when the poor bastard that was taken > out has a few choice words with the reporter he is usually lambasted for > having bad form or being a whiner. you want realism?? you got it!!

But this ain't the real world. We don't have half a dozen people watching the track for us. We don't have the benefit of peripheral vision. We ALL know about the warping. We ALL have the ability to reduce the "realism" to the point that the cars are drivable with a shitty setup. Tempers flare, and that's to be expected. The only thing I fully expect is for nobody to let their tempers affect their driving on the track. Lastly, I'd rather hear one driver call anoither one a "low-down-son- of-a-bitch" then to sound like a milk-toast momma's boy and claim that he'll "the car just wasn't right and we'll give it a go again next week".

In article <[email hidden]>, "mcwhom" <[email hidden]> writes: > >Yep, yep... I got ass ended by larry in one of my early races with you guys >and he was saying "you slowed way down". Heck, I thought I was just >entering the corner :-\ > That's the problem with such vast differences in skill levels. One guy's 'easy' pace is another guy's 'ass-clenching' pace.

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>I have to say one thing guys, this thread illustrates why I was not at >Chicagoland and likely will not race with rascar again. While there are >boneheaded moves made and some mention should be made, perhaps in a private >email with a polite attitude, most of the incidents are related to warp or >"just plain racin'!". Perhaps a one day cooling down period would be >appropriate before posting to the NG. >For those insisting that racing through wrecks at speed or fighting for a >position despite the danger is a punishable offense that should never >happen, I suggest you actually watch a BGN or Winston Cup race. The >boneheads are there in real life, and when the poor bastard that was taken >out has a few choice words with the reporter he is usually lambasted for >having bad form or being a whiner. you want realism?? you got it!!

For the most part, it's a civil group. However, there are certain tracks that seem to always cause hard feelings for some. I'm not sure there's a way around that, except skip those tracks. Although I have to step back and look at it again. WTF is the problem? It's not like we're racing for points... That's good and it's bad. It's good, because you're not out anything if you crash out. It's *supposed* to give newer drivers a chance to get used to racing online without worrying about screwing up someone's points race. No pressure, and all that. It's bad, because there's no incentive to keep tooling around 30 mph off the pace with a damaged car. And, there's no excitement in following the pace car all day because people keep wrecking. It's basically a no-win situation that I don't know how to fix. I'm really not sure that it CAN be fixed. Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I'm really not : sure that it CAN be fixed. : : Eldred : -- Well, Take the 4pm Eastern time race, shorten it a bit. The top ten cars, car with the fastest lap, car with the most laps led (or led a lap) and enter them into a points/official race, remove cars that were black flagged, remove cars that did not maintain a minimum lap time, put the rest of the field into a qualifying 10 lap heat, those that move into the points race to be determined. I believe you would then end up with a field of high quality drivers that could have a "serious" race to satisfy the contender in us all. That would allow the newer drivers to gain experience without having the better drivers pissed off because they "wasted" their day off. Maybe?? Something like that??? -- McWhom -----------------------------------------------------------------

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > > I'm really not > : sure that it CAN be fixed. > : > : Eldred > : -- > Well, Take the 4pm Eastern time race, shorten it a bit. The top ten cars, > car with the fastest lap, car with the most laps led (or led a lap) and > enter them into a points/official race, remove cars that were black flagged, > remove cars that did not maintain a minimum lap time, put the rest of the > field into a qualifying 10 lap heat, those that move into the points race to > be determined. I believe you would then end up with a field of high quality > drivers that could have a "serious" race to satisfy the contender in us all. > That would allow the newer drivers to gain experience without having the > better drivers pissed off because they "wasted" their day off. > > Maybe?? Something like that???

That requires too much work. I think Rascar admin duties are already the most work any of us want to commit to it. If we were to race for points: 1) The race distance would be bumped up to 50%. 2) We wouldn't used fixed setups 3) Tim, Mike, and Brian O. would still win most of the races. 4) Eldred might show up more often and actually do well because so many people eventually drop out. 5) If you think I'm an asshole now, you should see me when I'm a *real* league admin.

John Simmons wrote: > > 5) If you think I'm an asshole now, you should see me when I'm a > *real* league admin. I've heard stories, we really don't want to know Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

: : 5) If you think I'm an asshole now, you should see me when I'm a : *real* league admin. : : I don't really think anyone is an asshole.....I just want to have fun :-) I really feel like I am getting pretty good at this game, I am new in that I have not raced online much and never had a fast enough connection to be worth trying. I fly sims, drive sims, cars, bikes, tanks (lol)......etc.. I am always in these sims in the most realistic settings I can get, that's the fun of it. Having made some serious mistakes in the beginnings of my rascar membership I understand the trepidation some may have toward me, it also seems to me, watching the server replays that others are seeing my car jump around a bit, that confuses me as I have a cable connection and when driving online I generally see the other cars pretty smooth. ?? Having said that, having my driving picked apart every week ruins the fun for me. So be it, it is your league and you guys all have tons of experience. But, I just want to have fun! McWhom (Sean)

mcwhom wrote:

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> > : > : 5) If you think I'm an asshole now, you should see me when I'm a > : *real* league admin. > : > : > > I don't really think anyone is an asshole.....

Then you're not paying attention, John is a bona fide asshole, he claims so on his website, on this NG, on the few web boards he visits, hell, he's made a "career" out of it...and if you're still in doubt, you can always ask redTed Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... : : : mcwhom wrote: : > : > : : > : 5) If you think I'm an asshole now, you should see me when I'm a : > : *real* league admin. : > : : > : : > : > I don't really think anyone is an asshole..... : : Then you're not paying attention, : : : Beers and cheers : (uncle) Goy Haha, Well, I can be an asshole myself and do so regularly. John can be very much a stickler for the rules, I think that makes him anal retentive :) However, he painted a kick ass car for me and that buys a lot of love baby! -- McWhom -----------------------------------------------------------------

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > : > : 5) If you think I'm an asshole now, you should see me when I'm a > : *real* league admin. > : > : > > I don't really think anyone is an asshole.

You haven't seen me really mad yet. :) > Having said that, having my driving picked apart every week ruins the fun > for me. Picking people's driving apart gives us something to do until the next race. It doesn't always happen that way though.

Now you've done it. Who you callin a " milk-toast momma's boy "? (Hope all you non-rascar readers are enjoying this.) "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > > > > > > > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > : In article <[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" > > : <[email hidden]> writes: > > : > > : >I'm not blaming you at all. It was just one of those things as far as

I'm > > : >concerned too, but it seems like frederickson and now you are both > > blaming > > : >me. If you use the black Dodge sign as a reference point as you enter > > that > > : >turn, most of us are in the low 170's while you were suddenly at 150.You > > : >came back at me REAL quick. A 20 mph difference IS a dramaticslowdown. > > Even > > : >if it's 15mph, that's still huge. > > : > > : Did you guys ever think that maybe some of us HAVE to slow down thatmuch > > in > > : order to make the turn? Just because you can make it at 170, doesn'tmean > > all > > : of us can. I don't know about actual speeds, but there were peoplewho > > could > > : carry MUCH more speed than I could. If I'd been in front of such apack, > > I > > : guess you'd be saying the same things about me... > > : > > : Eldred > > : -- > > : Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(infoon

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> > my > > : homepage) > > : Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > : > > : Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > > > Yep, yep... I got ass ended by larry in one of my early races with you

guys > > and he was saying "you slowed way down". Heck, I thought I was just > > entering the corner :-\ > > > > I have to say one thing guys, this thread illustrates why I was not at > > Chicagoland and likely will not race with rascar again. While there are > > boneheaded moves made and some mention should be made, perhaps in aprivate > > email with a polite attitude, most of the incidents are related to warpor > > "just plain racin'!". Perhaps a one day cooling down period would be > > appropriate before posting to the NG. > > For those insisting that racing through wrecks at speed or fighting fora > > position despite the danger is a punishable offense that should never > > happen, I suggest you actually watch a BGN or Winston Cup race. The > > boneheads are there in real life, and when the poor bastard that wastaken

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> > out has a few choice words with the reporter he is usually lambasted for > > having bad form or being a whiner. you want realism?? you got it!! > > But this ain't the real world. We don't have half a dozen people > watching the track for us. We don't have the benefit of peripheral > vision. We ALL know about the warping. We ALL have the ability to > reduce the "realism" to the point that the cars are drivable with a > shitty setup. > > Tempers flare, and that's to be expected. The only thing I fully > expect is for nobody to let their tempers affect their driving on the > track. > > Lastly, I'd rather hear one driver call anoither one a "low-down-son- > of-a-bitch" then to sound like a milk-toast momma's boy and claim > that he'll "the car just wasn't right and we'll give it a go again > next week". >

Naw, we dont need anymore rules. We just need one or two more days of venting and then start getting prepared for the next race. This happens every year. Some will get better, some will not. Everyone will figure out who those drivers are and we will adjust as a group. And RASCAR will survive another season....less some, and then will add others. My Goal? Beat the aliens.... grub "mcwhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > I'm really not > : sure that it CAN be fixed. > : > : Eldred > : -- > Well, Take the 4pm Eastern time race, shorten it a bit. The top ten

cars, > car with the fastest lap, car with the most laps led (or led a lap) and > enter them into a points/official race, remove cars that were blackflagged, > remove cars that did not maintain a minimum lap time, put the rest of the > field into a qualifying 10 lap heat, those that move into the points raceto > be determined. I believe you would then end up with a field of highquality > drivers that could have a "serious" race to satisfy the contender in usall.

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> That would allow the newer drivers to gain experience without having the > better drivers pissed off because they "wasted" their day off. > > Maybe?? Something like that??? > > > -- > McWhom > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > >

"grub" wrote... > Now you've done it. > Who you callin a "milk-toast momma's boy"? The only "milk-toast momma's boy"s are the ones that don't put themselves out there every week and take whatever is slung in their direction, both on and off the track. Racing is not for the faint hearted. Jan. =---

"grub" wrote... > Naw, we dont need anymore rules. We do need one more... I thought entering the pits by dropping onto the apron on the backstretch (before T3) and continuing around to pit entry when pitting under green was a rule (it certainly used to be an agreement), but I just found it isn't. Needs to be added (or the reverse explicitly allowed), IMO. > We just need one or two more days of venting and then start > getting prepared for the next race. This happens every year. > Some will get better, some will not. Everyone will figure > out who those drivers are and we will adjust as a group. I'm not worried, despite some prima donna attitude from (former?) regulars. > And RASCAR will survive another season....less some, and > then will add others. Bingo. I can't imagine life without racing anymore... sad? -You bet!! > My Goal? > > Beat the aliens.... It's possible to come out on top via *stradgedy*... see RL Pepsi 400. Too many yellows in online racing to make that happen ATM tho'. Jan. =---

In article <bTmQa.5864$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> "grub" wrote... > > Naw, we dont need anymore rules. > > We do need one more... I thought entering the pits by dropping onto the > apron on the backstretch (before T3) and continuing around to pit entry when > pitting under green was a rule (it certainly used to be an agreement), but I > just found it isn't. > > Needs to be added (or the reverse explicitly allowed), IMO. >

I don't want to impose any "rules" that are not controlled by the game. There's a couple of tracks that require pit entry on the back stretch, but most of them don't.

oh........OUCH! :-( -- McWhom ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:xJmQa.5856$[email hidden]... : "grub" wrote... : > Now you've done it. : > Who you callin a "milk-toast momma's boy"? : : The only "milk-toast momma's boy"s are the ones that don't put themselves : out there every week and take whatever is slung in their direction, both on : and off the track. Racing is not for the faint hearted. : : Jan. : =--- : :

In article <[email hidden]>, "mcwhom" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Well, Take the 4pm Eastern time race, shorten it a bit. The top ten cars, >car with the fastest lap, car with the most laps led (or led a lap) and >enter them into a points/official race, remove cars that were black flagged, >remove cars that did not maintain a minimum lap time, put the rest of the >field into a qualifying 10 lap heat, those that move into the points race to >be determined. I believe you would then end up with a field of high quality >drivers that could have a "serious" race to satisfy the contender in us all. >That would allow the newer drivers to gain experience without having the >better drivers pissed off because they "wasted" their day off. > >Maybe?? Something like that???

Sorry Sean - I'm too tired at the moment to understand what you said...<g> I'll have to re-read it tomorrow. Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"John Simmons" wrote... > > <snip> > > I don't want to impose any "rules" that are not controlled > by the game. There's a couple of tracks that require pit > entry on the back stretch, but most of them don't. I can understand that, but we can't have people slowing abruptly in T3-T4 on a restart lap. I have too much going on to read autochat messages in such a situation. Jan. =---

In article <2TvQa.6742$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> "John Simmons" wrote... > > > <snip> > > > > I don't want to impose any "rules" that are not controlled > > by the game. There's a couple of tracks that require pit > > entry on the back stretch, but most of them don't. > > I can understand that, but we can't have people slowing abruptly in T3-T4 on > a restart lap. I have too much going on to read autochat messages in such a > situation.

That's kinda unacceptable. Autochat is the only way people can indicate they're pitting. Your comment is, however, a perfect example of why idle chitchat is going to stop.

"John Simmons" wrote... > > <snip> > That's kinda unacceptable. Autochat is the only way > people can indicate they're pitting. I don't actively ignore them, but most of the time they're gone before my peripheral vision triggers my awareness (if it's triggered at all) and I look up. Especially if I'm having to actively balance the car instead of just driving it (as on restarts on this track). We "feel" the car through our vision, remember(*). Having text based messages to indicate this sort of stuff is actually pretty ill conceived, IMO. If the spotter can say "Stay behind the XX car" under yellow, he can say "The XX car is pitting this lap" under green flag conditions too. I will continue to enter pits by dropping on the apron on the backstretch and I encourage others to do so as well... usually one is never in someone else's way driving on the lower part of the speedway there. > Your comment is, however, a perfect example of why > idle chitchat is going to stop. Why is that a perfect example? -At pace speed I have ample time and spare attention to read what is said. Jan. =--- (*) Rem.: turning on the stability aid would detract from my experience/enjoyment too much, so that's not an option.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:21:36 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>In article <bTmQa.5864$[email hidden]>, >[email hidden] says... >> "grub" wrote... >> > Naw, we dont need anymore rules. >> >> We do need one more... I thought entering the pits by dropping onto the >> apron on the backstretch (before T3) and continuing around to pit entry when >> pitting under green was a rule (it certainly used to be an agreement), but I >> just found it isn't. >> >> Needs to be added (or the reverse explicitly allowed), IMO. >> > >I don't want to impose any "rules" that are not controlled by the >game. There's a couple of tracks that require pit entry on the back >stretch, but most of them don't.

Yup. Plus I would hate that rule. I don't see this as a problem, if the guy in front of me signals he is going to pit I (get ready this, it may be a new concept for some of you) I take it a little easier through the turn, move to the high lane and pass on the high side. If under caution the guy in front of you starts bitching about a bogus BF (they are ALL bogus, right??) then maybe those cars behind this person should be prepared for him to, oh I don't know, enter pit lane under green. Another piece of advise. In the rare RASCAR occasion I find that I need to pit under green I usually lesson the chances of getting punted by making sure there is a good buffer between me and the car behind me. If the car behind me is banging on my rear bumper, I might actually let him (hold your breath for this one) let him pass me a lap before I pit. Also sending an auto chat with your intentions goes w/o saying (or it should). Now, if you blow up or smack the wall or something like that and you are just trying to limp back to the pits, then yes you should drop to the apron on the back stretch... but this is just common sense. Brian Oster

Naw, the milk-toast mamma's boy are the same ones who, when they were kids on the playground, kept making up rules as they went along and when they didn't get things their way, they would run home crying. Then they wouldn't let anyone come over to play in their playhouse who they didn't specifically invite. The same ones who would pitch a fit and hold their breath until their momma would give in with some milk-toast. They usually grow up to be hot-heads. If the milk-toast fits, then eat it. grub :) "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:xJmQa.5856$[email hidden]... > "grub" wrote... > > Now you've done it. > > Who you callin a "milk-toast momma's boy"? > > The only "milk-toast momma's boy"s are the ones that don't put themselves > out there every week and take whatever is slung in their direction, bothon > and off the track. Racing is not for the faint hearted. > > Jan. > =--- > >

> Naw, the milk-toast mamma's boy are the same ones who, when they were kids > on the playground, kept making up rules as they went along and when they > didn't get things their way, they would run home crying. Then theywouldn't > let anyone come over to play in their playhouse who they didn'tspecifically

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> invite. The same ones who would pitch a fit and hold their breath until > their momma would give in with some milk-toast. They usually grow up to be > hot-heads. > > If the milk-toast fits, then eat it. > > grub

what is milk toast

"Jan Verschueren" wrote: > I'm not worried, despite some prima donna attitude from (former?)regulars. Was that aimed my way Jan? -- ed_

"grub" wrote... > <snip> They usually grow up to be hot-heads. > > If the milk-toast fits, then eat it. I don't fit the stereotype you describe, but I take it you're telling me to check the temper? -I'm sorry, I didn't realise I'd lost my temper. If I ever do, believe me, you'll know about it. Last time I lost my cool in an online race was September 26th 2001, Le Mans race 1 of MARA European Division Season 3. You can ask some of the regulars, I'm pretty sure they'll remember the incident vividly. I am a fairly direct guy and I do "bark" when I don't have time to explain in detail, as when using in-car chat, but that's about it. You by any chance still puzzled what I was smoking? For one, I don't smoke any substances... if I feel the urge for intoxication, I do it the old fashioned way: Jack Daniels. This seriously impedes my ability to drive (be it real or simulated cars), so you can rest assured I haven't been hitting the bottle before logging on to a RASCAR race either. No, I am neither drunk nor stoned, i.e. in a position to be irritated. And driving next to the apron while everyone else is up top is very annoying. You can obviously see out the right half of your windscreen and keep tabs on whoever is ahead, the guy behind you, if he wants to keep a reasonable distance (i.e. not be told to "close it up" from behind) can't keep track of you as you've neatly installed yourself in the blind spot formed by the window/"door" frame and the rollcage. That annoys me... I'm sorry. We used to have conscription here and during my stint in the army they (among other things) trained me to be a drill sergeant. That has warped me... whenever a sort of formation is required it has to be neat. My office desk is as much of a mess as the next guy's, I'm forever misplacing things, but formations, be it of infantry on parade or online NASCAR pacing lines, have to be neat. It's a thing with me, I make no excuses for it. I tolerate people running 1 car's width out of step, as I'm afraid people would take me for a complete whacko (I am, but I'd rather not be seen as such ;-)), but that's about where it ends. I told you to get back up the racetrack and I even came down the racetrack to make sure you were paying attention, but that's not losing my temper. You haven't seen me mad. Jan. =---

"frederickson" wrote... > > <snip> > what is milk toast It's also called French toast. It's bread, dipped in a mixture of eggs and milk and then fried in a pan... it stays soft when cooked and one usually puts something sweet on it (sugar/sirup/honey) before eating it, hence perhaps the "softie" image. Actually, it's just a way of making bread that's well on it's way to going stale palletable. Jan. =---

"Ed Solheim" wrote... > > <snip> > Was that aimed my way Jan? No, I noticed you getting annoyed, but I haven't seen you thrown up your hands in despair and putting yourself above the racing for 2 (or even 3, don't remember exactly) races in a row yet. I'm not happy about you diving in between me and David at this last race tho' (seeing as you're sort of asking <g>). You know I never make a fuss about losing a position to a faster driver coming up through the field and both David and I got a reasonable restart on that one, so that was just sheer impatience on your part AFAIC. So I'd rather, in future, you took the couple of tenths extra time loss sitting behind me for half a lap and wait for me to give you the nodd, rather than pull something like that, if that's alrigth with you. Dave and I are pretty solid, but not *that* solid when you factor in latency, cold tyres and an uncomfortable setup. Jan. =---

Jan since you're here are you still gonna do that incident analysis

"frederickson" wrote... > Jan since you're here are you still gonna > do that incident analysis I was planning to, yes. Not tonight, obviously, but before the next race. You think I should or I shouldn't? Jan. =---

> I was planning to, yes. Not tonight, obviously, but before the next race. > You think I should or I shouldn't? Yea I like them

In article <6QHQa.102496$[email hidden]>, "frederickson" <[email hidden]> writes: >> I was planning to, yes. Not tonight, obviously, but before the next race. >> You think I should or I shouldn't? > >Yea I like them When was the previous one? I must have missed it... Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Oster <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> writes:

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>>I don't want to impose any "rules" that are not controlled by the >>game. There's a couple of tracks that require pit entry on the back >>stretch, but most of them don't. > >Yup. Plus I would hate that rule. I don't see this as a problem, if >the guy in front of me signals he is going to pit I (get ready this, >it may be a new concept for some of you) I take it a little easier >through the turn, move to the high lane and pass on the high side. If >under caution the guy in front of you starts bitching about a bogus BF >(they are ALL bogus, right??) then maybe those cars behind this person >should be prepared for him to, oh I don't know, enter pit lane under >green. > >Another piece of advise. In the rare RASCAR occasion I find that I >need to pit under green I usually lesson the chances of getting punted >by making sure there is a good buffer between me and the car behind >me. If the car behind me is banging on my rear bumper, I might >actually let him (hold your breath for this one) let him pass me a lap >before I pit. Also sending an auto chat with your intentions goes w/o >saying (or it should).

Brian - Don't confuse people with logic and reason...<g> Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <6QHQa.102496$[email hidden]>,"frederickson" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >> I was planning to, yes. Not tonight, obviously, but before the nextrace. > >> You think I should or I shouldn't? > > > >Yea I like them > > When was the previous one? I must have missed it... its on the rascar forum

"EldredP" wrote... > > <snip> > When was the previous one? I must have missed it... I posted one on the PMP race to the forum (it's clearly labeled) as I wanted to prevent non-involved parties from poking their nose in. And to prevent the wrath of RAS descending on RASCAR again if it triggered a big discussion. Jan. =---

In article <_dJQa.97343$[email hidden]>, "frederickson" <[email hidden]> writes: >> When was the previous one? I must have missed it... > >its on the rascar forum > Ah, that explains it. I hate forums, so I seldom go there... Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

milk toast is a label for old folks who can't chew their food anymore least where I come from :) -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qfGQa.21305$[email hidden]... > > what is milk toast > >

"frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qfGQa.21305$[email hidden]... > > Naw, the milk-toast mamma's boy are the same ones who, when they werekids

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> > on the playground, kept making up rules as they went along and when they > > didn't get things their way, they would run home crying. Then they > wouldn't > > let anyone come over to play in their playhouse who they didn't > specifically > > invite. The same ones who would pitch a fit and hold their breath until > > their momma would give in with some milk-toast. They usually grow up to

be

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> > hot-heads. > > > > If the milk-toast fits, then eat it. > > > > grub > > what is milk toast

I always thought it was spelled "Milquetoast" if you were calling someone that. And dictionary.com backs me up: milque�toast n. One who has a meek, timid, unassertive nature. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [After Caspar Milquetoast, a comic-strip character created by Harold Tucker Webster (1885-1952).] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ milquetoasty adj. Word History: An indication of the effect on the English language of popular culture is the adoption of names from the comic strips as English words. Casper Milquetoast, created by Harold Webster in 1924, was a timid and retiring man named for a timid food. The first instance of milquetoast as a common noun is found in the mid-1930s. Milquetoast thus joins the ranks of other such words, including sad sack, from a blundering army private invented by George Baker in 1942, and Wimpy, from J. Wellington Wimpy in the Popeye comic strip, which became a trade name for a hamburger. If we look to a related form of popular culture, the animated cartoon, we must of course acknowledge Mickey Mouse, which has become a slang term for something that is easy, insignificant, small-time, worthless, or petty. [syn: sissy, pantywaist, pansy, milksop, Milquetoast] begin 666 prime.gif M1TE&.#EA! `6`/ ``/___P```"'Y! $`````+ `````$`!8```(.A(^I$<;> *0)2JVHLO00$`.P`` ` end begin 666 lprime.gif M1TE&.#EA`P`6`/ ``/___P```"'Y! $`````+ `````#`!8```(+A(\)8;P- 'E9PT$10`.P`` ` end

In article <BOOQa.2625$[email hidden]>, "Kyle Roberts" <[email hidden]> writes: >If we look to >a related form of popular culture, the animated cartoon, we must of course >acknowledge Mickey Mouse, which has become a slang term for something that >is easy, insignificant, small-time, worthless, or petty. Recently used to describe a couple of F1 tracks...(to bring it back on topic).<g> Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Not aimed at you. Just trying to be funny. I really didn't know what you were talking about. I thought that you were saying that I was behind you and I knew that I wasn't because I could see you in my mirror. I thought that it was warp or something. Now I understand what you were saying. The reason the I pace my car off the the side like that is because sometimes people come to an abrupt stop and then the punting begins. So, I have always staggered when we are getting ready for the restart except went we get ready for the pace car to enter the pits. Then I line up like we are supposed to. I guess I have seen too many people run into the back end of each other while pacing around the track that I would rather stagger and keep the group tight than have a huge buffer. I hope that no one took my 'hot-head' thing serious. But, on a serious note, I have always wondered what happened to the spoiled brat when they grew up. grub "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1nHQa.9163$[email hidden]... > "grub" wrote... > > <snip> They usually grow up to be hot-heads. > > > > If the milk-toast fits, then eat it. > > I don't fit the stereotype you describe, but I take it you're telling meto > check the temper? -I'm sorry, I didn't realise I'd lost my temper. If Iever > do, believe me, you'll know about it. Last time I lost my cool in anonline > race was September 26th 2001, Le Mans race 1 of MARA European Division > Season 3. You can ask some of the regulars, I'm pretty sure they'llremember > the incident vividly. > > I am a fairly direct guy and I do "bark" when I don't have time to explain > in detail, as when using in-car chat, but that's about it. You by anychance > still puzzled what I was smoking? > > For one, I don't smoke any substances... if I feel the urge for > intoxication, I do it the old fashioned way: Jack Daniels. This seriously > impedes my ability to drive (be it real or simulated cars), so you canrest > assured I haven't been hitting the bottle before logging on to a RASCARrace > either. No, I am neither drunk nor stoned, i.e. in a position to be > irritated. And driving next to the apron while everyone else is up top is > very annoying. You can obviously see out the right half of your windscreen > and keep tabs on whoever is ahead, the guy behind you, if he wants to keepa > reasonable distance (i.e. not be told to "close it up" from behind) can't > keep track of you as you've neatly installed yourself in the blind spot > formed by the window/"door" frame and the rollcage. That annoys me... I'm > sorry. We used to have conscription here and during my stint in the army > they (among other things) trained me to be a drill sergeant. That haswarped > me... whenever a sort of formation is required it has to be neat. Myoffice > desk is as much of a mess as the next guy's, I'm forever misplacingthings, > but formations, be it of infantry on parade or online NASCAR pacing lines, > have to be neat. It's a thing with me, I make no excuses for it. Itolerate > people running 1 car's width out of step, as I'm afraid people would takeme

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> for a complete whacko (I am, but I'd rather not be seen as such ;-)), but > that's about where it ends. I told you to get back up the racetrack and I > even came down the racetrack to make sure you were paying attention, but > that's not losing my temper. You haven't seen me mad. > > Jan. > =--- > >

"grub" wrote... > Not aimed at you. Just trying to be funny. > <snip> > I guess I have seen too many people run into the back end > of each other while pacing around the track that I would > rather stagger and keep the group tight than have a huge > buffer. It's a valid concern, but it's possible to stagger and still be visible from the following driver's cockpit, by not putting as much track as possible between you and the guy in the pacing line, but only what you need, say 10 inches. Mind you, if someone does misjudge it coming up from behind, you and the other car form a wider obstacle he's got to miss. <g> That said, pacing has gotten a lot better in RASCAR. People still don't seem to see the need to catch up to the pace car and close up the field quickly and correctly (they'll boogie like mad for the yellow flag, but lose interest afterwards), but accordeon effect and pacing line incidents have dropped of markedly. Even if it happens again, I'm sure either John or myself will place some choice words.<g> Jan. =---

You know Jan, I can see that it could be a problem from the cockpit view. I was looking at the problem from the roof view and now I understand what you are saying. I will make sure that my stagger is closer in the future. Better yet, I may even try to pace behind the car, but I really like the added insurance. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Wn0Ra.12276$[email hidden]...

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> "grub" wrote... > > Not aimed at you. Just trying to be funny. > > <snip> > > I guess I have seen too many people run into the back end > > of each other while pacing around the track that I would > > rather stagger and keep the group tight than have a huge > > buffer. > > It's a valid concern, but it's possible to stagger and still be visible

from > the following driver's cockpit, by not putting as much track as possible > between you and the guy in the pacing line, but only what you need, say 10 > inches. Mind you, if someone does misjudge it coming up from behind, youand > the other car form a wider obstacle he's got to miss. <g> > > That said, pacing has gotten a lot better in RASCAR. People still don'tseem

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> to see the need to catch up to the pace car and close up the field quickly > and correctly (they'll boogie like mad for the yellow flag, but lose > interest afterwards), but accordeon effect and pacing line incidents have > dropped of markedly. Even if it happens again, I'm sure either John or > myself will place some choice words.<g> > > Jan. > =--- > >

I think the thing a lot of us like about Rascar is that we HAVE long races. I know I, for one, am truly tired of 10% hot-lap races online where tire management, fuel management, pit management and true planning mean nothing. -Larry "mcwhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > I'm really not > : sure that it CAN be fixed. > : > : Eldred > : -- > Well, Take the 4pm Eastern time race, shorten it a bit. The top ten

cars, > car with the fastest lap, car with the most laps led (or led a lap) and > enter them into a points/official race, remove cars that were blackflagged, > remove cars that did not maintain a minimum lap time, put the rest of the > field into a qualifying 10 lap heat, those that move into the points raceto > be determined. I believe you would then end up with a field of highquality > drivers that could have a "serious" race to satisfy the contender in usall.

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> That would allow the newer drivers to gain experience without having the > better drivers pissed off because they "wasted" their day off. > > Maybe?? Something like that??? > > > -- > McWhom > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > >

I'd sign up :) But I would want a rule where the race winner would have to give up his setup for all to learn from :) -Larry "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > If we were to race for points: > > 1) The race distance would be bumped up to 50%. > > 2) We wouldn't used fixed setups > > 3) Tim, Mike, and Brian O. would still win most of the races. > > 4) Eldred might show up more often and actually do well because so > many people eventually drop out. > > 5) If you think I'm an asshole now, you should see me when I'm a > *real* league admin. > >

Ditto. That's why I'm here :) -Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <_dJQa.97343$[email hidden]>,"frederickson"

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> <[email hidden]> writes: > > Ah, that explains it. I hate forums, so I seldom go there... > > Eldred > -- > Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on

my > homepage) > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Elaborated on John's recap in the same thread of the forum. Plz. check it before the Loudon race, thanks. Jan. =--- PS.: comments from RASCAR regulars on the forum only, please.

Thanks for your time Jan. Good reading. grub "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2nZRa.19469$[email hidden]...

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> Elaborated on John's recap in the same thread of the forum. > > Plz. check it before the Loudon race, thanks. > > Jan. > =--- > PS.: comments from RASCAR regulars on the forum only, please. > >

Brian Oster <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> LOL. This may be the most over-analyzed 5 seconds of racing in RASCAR > history. Didn't mean to give the impression I was blaming you, and by > that I mean, it was all your fault. :) > > Seriously though, I can definitely understand when a car in front of > you does something unexpected it can mess up your line so I can see > your point. I will have to go back and look at the replay a little > closer and more specifically from YOUR in-car camera. Again, I don't > think it was really anyones fault just one of those deals. I have > allways had problems with T3 at Chicago... > > Brian Oster

LMFAO!! This WHOLE thread is priceless! I RARELY read all the posts in these threads, but this one is an exception for sure. It was like watching a pinball game....you screwed up!.....No YOU did!.....wait, let me check....no it was him...no them....your an @#%*@!....milktoast....dictionary....sorry :( ...not sorry!....analize THIS....analize THAT....WHEW!!! Boil it down and your left with three things: 1) SHIT happens 2) No one was killed 3) SHIT will happen again and again and again.....move on

You forgot one............. 4) Remember, it's just a *game*. Bruce. "SpeedRat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Boil it down and your left with three things: > 1) SHIT happens > 2) No one was killed > 3) SHIT will happen again and again and again.....move on

"Bruce Kennewell" wrote... > You forgot one............. > > 4) Remember, it's just a *game*. > No snipes from the sidelines, please, Mr. Kennewell. Jan. =---

"SpeedRat" wrote > > <snip> > <snip> > Boil it down and your left with three things: > 1) SHIT happens no kidding. > 2) No one was killed No, but egos were dented and that is far worse. Once you're dead you're not bothered about stuff like that anymore. > 3) SHIT will happen again and again and again.....move on Disagree. If one doesn't seek to understand what happened in these incident and learn from them, one is merely hoping to get better, not actually getting any better as a driver. Jan. =---

Ya'll stay out of this one. This is a family matter. Jump in and you are likely to have the whole gang turn on you. grub "i can kick my brothers butt but nobody else can" bat "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3f18f321$[email hidden]...

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> You forgot one............. > > 4) Remember, it's just a *game*. > > Bruce. > > > "SpeedRat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Boil it down and your left with three things: > > 1) SHIT happens > > 2) No one was killed > > 3) SHIT will happen again and again and again.....move on > >

But it never ceases to amaze me how anyone can take something like a computer game so seriously! It's fleeting, it's so vaporous, it's "for the moment" enjoyment. Once done, it's done, yet the number of people who dwell on it and carry out autopsies amazes me. Bruce. "grub" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Ya'll stay out of this one. This is a family matter. Jump in and you are > likely to have the whole gang turn on you.

"Bruce Kennewell" wrote... > But it never ceases to amaze me how anyone can take > something like a computer game so seriously! We take our racing seriously, it doesn't matter that we use a computer game to do it. The computer game and any attitude towards it don't even enter into the equation. > It's fleeting, it's so vaporous, it's "for the moment" > enjoyment. DTM Race Driver is, racing sims are for life. > Once done, it's done, yet the number of people who > dwell on it and carry out autopsies amazes me. That's because you don't get it, obviously. If you can't handle the sort of intensity that comes with racing, other hobbies beckon loudly. Jan. =---

"grub" wrote... > You know Jan, I can see that it could be a problem from > the cockpit view. I was looking at the problem from the > roof view and now I understand what you are saying. I > will make sure that my stagger is closer in the future. > Better yet, I may even try to pace behind the car, but > I really like the added insurance. Quite ironic that I should swipe you(*) in a pacing line bunch-up after having this conversation, don't you think? <G> Thanks for making the effort to stay in line anyway... Jan. =--- (*): again, sorry 'bout that... was not paying attention. My fault entirely.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> writes: >But it never ceases to amaze me how anyone can take something like a >computer game so seriously! >It's fleeting, it's so vaporous, it's "for the moment" enjoyment. That's just about what I said last week. It's only a game, no one gets hurt, etc. But, you can see people with the same sort of enthusiasm in just about anything. Birdwatching? Butterfly watching? Fleeting and vaporous. Collecting is tangible, but some people collect crap that I just don't understand. Beer cans? Hubcaps? Why...? Who knows... Remember, there are people who pay REAL money(sometimes a lot) for an item in a game world(Diablo 2). Look on Ebay sometime... Different strokes, Bruce... Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

surprised me Jan, when you did that. I was pacing behind you and saw you brake suddenly and move left. I didn't realize till you apologized that you actually made contact.. -- McWhom ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZLkSa.21639$[email hidden]... :<snip> : Thanks for making the effort to stay in line anyway... : : Jan. : =--- : (*): again, sorry 'bout that... was not paying attention. My fault entirely. : :

Yeah...I reckon it must be so, Eldred. Makes me wonder (obviously!) sometimes, though, just how people become so intense about stuff that they can't even touch! :) Bruce. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Different strokes, Bruce...

See, I've never been able to take a competitive sport seriously. It's never been "war" to me; I've only ever competed because of the "fun" aspect. Even at school, when we had to do sports, although I enjoyed and did well at Rugby, I was as competitive as a piece of wet string. I really only did well because I enjoyed it and had some innate skill, not because I had a killer instinct and saw the other bloke as an enemy. The other school sports with which I was involved; shooting, rowing & athletics, I enjoyed but had various levels of excellence. In shooting, because I had almost 20/10 vision (back then!), I was excellent. In rowing I was mediocre but totally loved being on the water and in athletics I was hopeless but had a bunch of fun. When I took up club motorsports I did so because of the fun and really couldn't give two hoots about the competitive side....it just didn't matter whether I came first, last or retired.......it was just a fun way to fill in a few hours and have a good time with my friends. I really couldn't get into the in-depth, intense stuff that some of the others went in for. When my kids started off in their sports (soccer, netball, athletics, swimming, tennis) we drilled into them that they did it (a) for the exercise and (b) to have fun. (Thank Heavens those two simple credos have stuck with them into their adulthood.) I guess that's why I find it difficult to associate a computer GAME with the intense competitive spirit that some people show. As for my not being able to handle the competitive nature and other hobbies beckoning, Jan, that has nothing to do with it and is really a rather trite throw-away tagline undeserving of you. Bruce. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:IUjSa.21578$[email hidden]... > We take our racing seriously, it doesn't matter that we use a computergame > to do it. The computer game and any attitude towards it don't even enter > into the equation.

In article <3f19e1f9$[email hidden]>, Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> writes >See, I've never been able to take a competitive sport seriously. >It's never been "war" to me; I've only ever competed because of the "fun" >aspect. >Why does it have to be war just because you want to compete to the best of your abilities? There's also a sense of satisfaction that comes with doing something well. Be that your job (when I'm there), painting the bedroom (get round to it next year), sex (need more practice, always need more practice), cleaning the car (don't ya just love valeting), playing sports (when I was young), or playing computer games, a game of checkers or chess. Anything. That doesn't mean you want to squash your opponent, like a bug. There are 3 sides to all humans, in my view. Intellectual, emotional and physical. Playing computer racing sims can allow the physical with hand/eye co-ordination and reflexes to play a major part, along with a the emotional buzz whilst you are driving at your limits and still keeping it on the track, with the added bonus when it all comes together and you actually win. Sometimes, with pit strategies, you can even employ some intellectual processes into your racing as you try to outsmart your competitors to gain some advantage. So, all-in-all it can really make an individual work overtime from green flag to chequered. Unfortunately, when working overtime like this, I guess sometimes peoples emotions can tip over the edge and it can all get a bit too much and that's when the arguments start. I too am hopefully past that now, but it still doesn't mean I won't be out there for the win. :) <snip> -- Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :) GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

I used parenthesis, Peter, as a means of stressing what a lot of coaches stress; the fact that the opposition is the enemy. I *don't* want to compete to the best of my abilities, mate; that's the point! I want to compete to simply have a good time doing so. As one example, I even turn the AI level down in GPL so that I can relax and don't need to go all-out in order to try and win. :) As another, when I used to sail here in Canberra, if it was a fabulous day then during the race I'd deliberately sand-bag just to be able to stay out on the water longer!! :) Sure, I take a lot of satisfaction in doing something well but it has very rarely ever involved competition of any sort. Bruce. "Peter Ives" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:57PV2DAw8eG$[email hidden]... > Why does it have to be war just because you want to compete to the best > of your abilities? There's also a sense of satisfaction that comes with > doing something well.

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<Py8Sa.20420$[email hidden]>...

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> "SpeedRat" wrote > > > <snip> > > <snip> > > Boil it down and your left with three things: > > 1) SHIT happens > > no kidding. > > > 2) No one was killed > > No, but egos were dented and that is far worse. Once you're dead you're not > bothered about stuff like that anymore. > > > 3) SHIT will happen again and again and > again.....move on > > Disagree. If one doesn't seek to understand what happened in these incident > and learn from them, one is merely hoping to get better, not actually > getting any better as a driver. > > Jan.

I posted this message to add humor to a situation that warranted some humor!! I'm a fiercly competative individual myself, but I always try to put all the negative issues into perspective in a givin situation. RASCAR sounds like it would be fun, but threads like this can REALLY turn off a person that has an interest in joining! It's like; "MAN, that sure looks like fun...but...I don't think I'll join because I know everyone will blast me and scold me for making rookie mistakes....nah....I think I'll pass...I don't need all that DRAMA just to play a game." RASCAR...and other racing clubs....should make it a rule that you could get banned if you air your dirty laundry in forums like this. Use ICQ or something for Gods sake! How can online racing grow if potential members are turned off before they even try?

I started to type something funny during the race, but decided that the admin cop would get pissed due to too much chat traffic, so I just typed "NP" and I meant it. cheers, grub "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZLkSa.21639$[email hidden]...

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> "grub" wrote... > > You know Jan, I can see that it could be a problem from > > the cockpit view. I was looking at the problem from the > > roof view and now I understand what you are saying. I > > will make sure that my stagger is closer in the future. > > Better yet, I may even try to pace behind the car, but > > I really like the added insurance. > > Quite ironic that I should swipe you(*) in a pacing line bunch-up after > having this conversation, don't you think? <G> > > Thanks for making the effort to stay in line anyway... > > Jan. > =--- > (*): again, sorry 'bout that... was not paying attention. My fault

entirely. > >

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (SpeedRat) writes:

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>I'm a fiercly competative individual myself, but I always try to put >all the negative issues into perspective in a givin situation. RASCAR >sounds like it would be fun, but threads like this can REALLY turn off >a person that has an interest in joining! It's like; "MAN, that sure >looks like fun...but...I don't think I'll join because I know everyone >will blast me and scold me for making rookie mistakes....nah....I >think I'll pass...I don't need all that DRAMA just to play a game." > RASCAR...and other racing clubs....should make it a rule that you >could get banned if you air your dirty laundry in forums like this. >Use ICQ or something for Gods sake! How can online racing grow if >potential members are turned off before they even try?

Good points. Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> I posted this message to add humor to a situation that warranted some > humor!! > I'm a fiercly competative individual myself, but I always try to put > all the negative issues into perspective in a givin situation. RASCAR > sounds like it would be fun, but threads like this can REALLY turn off > a person that has an interest in joining! It's like; "MAN, that sure > looks like fun...but...I don't think I'll join because I know everyone > will blast me and scold me for making rookie mistakes....nah....I > think I'll pass...I don't need all that DRAMA just to play a game." > RASCAR...and other racing clubs....should make it a rule that you > could get banned if you air your dirty laundry in forums like this. > Use ICQ or something for Gods sake! How can online racing grow if > potential members are turned off before they even try? >

Name one league that doesn't have some drama. Everyone makes rookie mistakes. Everyone gets called out on the carpet. I've been punted from a fairly large number of races this season, and in almost as many races, the sim has seen fit to elminate me if I manage to make it to within 10 laps of the finish. However, I keep coming back. Why? Because of races like we had yesterday. Sure - there were a lot of cautions. Sure - there were some folks who made rookie mistakes. But, the green flag racing from my point of view was superb. Every once in a while, you get a jewel out of the mud pit. In RASCAR, we're here to race, not to have a fuckin' tea party. Invariably, someone's gonna come up mad. They're gonna start talkin' smack. That's RASCAR. That's life. That's human nature. It's gonna spill onto this forum because this is where RASCAR lives. What doesn't kill you just strengthens your resolve to beat that loud-mouthed mother fucker on the track (driving clean) next week. That being said, if somone doesn't want to race in RASCAR because they feel they'll have their priceless little feelings hurt, then I say go find someplace else to race, and be happy and secure in their little politically correct perfect world. You want to participate, fine and welcome as long as you try your best to race clean and often, but until then, you really don't have the right to comment on anything RASCAR says or does. You want a voice that will be listened to and considered, find a number you like, register to race, and bring your best game to Pocono this coming Saturday.

"SpeedRat" wrote... > > <snip> > I posted this message to add humor to a situation that > warranted some humor!! I don't buy that explanation, but anyway, what do you think my comment about the egos was an attempt at? > I'm a fiercly competative individual myself, but I always > try to put all the negative issues into perspective in a > givin situation. RASCAR sounds like it would be fun, but > threads like this can REALLY turn off a person that has > an interest in joining! Why should that be? -I think Dave and Brian handled that incident very well. There's insight to be gained from reading the exchange. > It's like; "MAN, that sure looks like fun...but...I don't > think I'll join because I know everyone will blast me and > scold me for making rookie mistakes....nah....I think I'll > pass...I don't need all that DRAMA just to play a game." The idea for RASCAR is to lift the racing and the driver conduct above the "pick-up" level, so there is rarely any scolding. However, that doesn't mean that mistakes shouldn't be pointed out or incidents not discussed. Especially where new racers are concerned, it's a lot easier and quicker to profit from a more experienced racer's opinion that it is to get that experience oneself. If people would join RASCAR because it sounds like fun but don't have the commitment to put in the effort and show the discipline it takes to be consistent then I'd rather they'd be turned off by this type of thread. > RASCAR...and other racing clubs....should make it a > rule that you could get banned if you air your dirty > laundry in forums like this. Use ICQ or something for > Gods sake! For RASCAR there's practical obstacles involved. We're contributors to the same newsgroup, not personal aquaintances. Besides, nothing kills a league quicker than unresolved incidents and bad blood remaining between drivers. > How can online racing grow if potential members are > turned off before they even try? How can online racing grow if it remains a casual, non-committal activity across the board? Jan. =---

In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes: >You want to participate, fine and welcome as long as you try your >best to race clean and often, but until then, you really don't have >the right to comment on anything RASCAR says or does. You want a >voice that will be listened to and considered, find a number you >like, register to race, and bring your best game to Pocono this >coming Saturday. I think that anyone in r.a.s. has a right to comment. After all, we *are* discussing it here. If we want it to be a closed discussion, it should be taken to a closed group or maillist. Since the majority of RASCAR participants were/are against that, then we have to deal with comments from the peanut gallery, warranted or not. Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >You want to participate, fine and welcome as long as you try your > >best to race clean and often, but until then, you really don't have > >the right to comment on anything RASCAR says or does. You want a > >voice that will be listened to and considered, find a number you > >like, register to race, and bring your best game to Pocono this > >coming Saturday. > > I think that anyone in r.a.s. has a right to comment. After all, we *are* > discussing it here. If we want it to be a closed discussion, it should be > taken to a closed group or maillist. Since the majority of RASCAR participants > were/are against that, then we have to deal with comments from the peanut > gallery, warranted or not.

I know we have to deal with it, but that doesn't make it right. If he wants a say, he should be willing to play. It's easy to sit on the outside and complsin or make suggestions, but it's just that much more noise we have to weed through. If the people that don't race with us would just STFU, our threads wouldn't last nearly as long.

No doubt about it, John; you really have a way with words! Bruce. "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

I was lucky on this one. I didn't touch anyone or anything and came in a nice, quiet 5th :) Well, I did wear out my right-front fender on the turn-4 exit wall during the last 15 laps or so (several times), but that was me by my lonesome :) -Larry (Happy to be under the Radar on this one!) "grub" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Ya'll stay out of this one. This is a family matter. Jump in and you are > likely to have the whole gang turn on you. > > grub "i can kick my brothers butt but nobody else can" bat > > > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3f18f321$[email hidden]... > > You forgot one............. > > > > 4) Remember, it's just a *game*. > > > > Bruce. > > > > > > "SpeedRat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Boil it down and your left with three things: > > > 1) SHIT happens > > > 2) No one was killed > > > 3) SHIT will happen again and again and again.....move on > > > > > >

It's not a Game. It's a Sim, dammit! :) -Larry "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > But it never ceases to amaze me how anyone can take something like a > computer game so seriously! > It's fleeting, it's so vaporous, it's "for the moment" enjoyment. > > Once done, it's done, yet the number of people who dwell on it and carryout

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> autopsies amazes me. > > Bruce. > > "grub" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Ya'll stay out of this one. This is a family matter. Jump in and you are > > likely to have the whole gang turn on you. > > >

I feel good. My name or number isn't mentioned in the entire report :) -Larry "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2nZRa.19469$[email hidden]...

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> Elaborated on John's recap in the same thread of the forum. > > Plz. check it before the Loudon race, thanks. > > Jan. > =--- > PS.: comments from RASCAR regulars on the forum only, please. > >

In article <[email hidden]>, Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> writes

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>I used parenthesis, Peter, as a means of stressing what a lot of coaches >stress; the fact that the opposition is the enemy. > >I *don't* want to compete to the best of my abilities, mate; that's the >point! >I want to compete to simply have a good time doing so. >As one example, I even turn the AI level down in GPL so that I can relax and >don't need to go all-out in order to try and win. :) >As another, when I used to sail here in Canberra, if it was a fabulous day >then during the race I'd deliberately sand-bag just to be able to stay out >on the water longer!! :) > >Sure, I take a lot of satisfaction in doing something well but it has very >rarely ever involved competition of any sort. > >Bruce.

Sure Bruce, I understand where you're coming from and do that myself, but generally when amongst close friends, with a few beers, knowing that everyone is just there for a laugh. Put 20+ relative strangers together over the internet and that kind of relaxed competition just ain't going to happen. :) -- Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :) GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

"Larry" wrote... > I feel good. My name or number isn't mentioned in the > entire report :) You sure you were in the race? ;-)) Jan. =---

In article <_CXSa.25015$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> "Larry" wrote... > > I feel good. My name or number isn't mentioned in the > > entire report :) > > You sure you were in the race? ;-)) > > Jan. > =--- > > >

He was there. I know because he was all but lickin' the chrome off my back bumper. :)

Oh, yeah :) -Larry "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_CXSa.25015$[email hidden]...

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> "Larry" wrote... > > I feel good. My name or number isn't mentioned in the > > entire report :) > > You sure you were in the race? ;-)) > > Jan. > =--- > >

Ah, chrome. I thought that was sweat glistening :) -Larry "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <_CXSa.25015$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > "Larry" wrote... > > > I feel good. My name or number isn't mentioned in the > > > entire report :) > > > > You sure you were in the race? ;-)) > > > > Jan. > > =--- > > > > > > > > He was there. I know because he was all but lickin' the chrome off > my back bumper. :)

A rookie mistake is acceptable. Its when you have numerous "rookie mistakes" race after race that I have a problem. Knock knock knock, McFlyyy... Mitch "SpeedRat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<Py8Sa.20420$[email hidden]>...

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> > "SpeedRat" wrote > > > > <snip> > > > <snip> > > > Boil it down and your left with three things: > > > 1) SHIT happens > > > > no kidding. > > > > > 2) No one was killed > > > > No, but egos were dented and that is far worse. Once you're dead you're

not > > bothered about stuff like that anymore. > > > > > 3) SHIT will happen again and again and > > again.....move on > > > > Disagree. If one doesn't seek to understand what happened in theseincident

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> > and learn from them, one is merely hoping to get better, not actually > > getting any better as a driver. > > > > Jan. > > I posted this message to add humor to a situation that warranted some > humor!! > I'm a fiercly competative individual myself, but I always try to put > all the negative issues into perspective in a givin situation. RASCAR > sounds like it would be fun, but threads like this can REALLY turn off > a person that has an interest in joining! It's like; "MAN, that sure > looks like fun...but...I don't think I'll join because I know everyone > will blast me and scold me for making rookie mistakes....nah....I > think I'll pass...I don't need all that DRAMA just to play a game." > RASCAR...and other racing clubs....should make it a rule that you > could get banned if you air your dirty laundry in forums like this. > Use ICQ or something for Gods sake! How can online racing grow if > potential members are turned off before they even try?

>A rookie mistake is acceptable. Its when you have numerous "rookie >mistakes" race after race that I have a problem. Knock knock knock, >McFlyyy... > Sean suggested(if I understood correctly) a 'heat' race and having drivers transfer to the 'main. While that might work, it may be too much to coordinate. Is there any reason we couldn't have a practice session(or 2) during the week, and let some of the hotshoes ride shotgun? Getting immediate feedback on driving lines, brake/throttle points, etc. might help... Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

John Simmons wrote:

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > >>In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons >><[email hidden]> writes: >> >> >>>You want to participate, fine and welcome as long as you try your >>>best to race clean and often, but until then, you really don't have >>>the right to comment on anything RASCAR says or does. You want a >>>voice that will be listened to and considered, find a number you >>>like, register to race, and bring your best game to Pocono this >>>coming Saturday. >> >>I think that anyone in r.a.s. has a right to comment. After all, we *are* >>discussing it here. If we want it to be a closed discussion, it should be >>taken to a closed group or maillist. Since the majority of RASCAR participants >>were/are against that, then we have to deal with comments from the peanut >>gallery, warranted or not. > > > > I know we have to deal with it, but that doesn't make it right. If he > wants a say, he should be willing to play. It's easy to sit on the > outside and complsin or make suggestions, but it's just that much > more noise we have to weed through. If the people that don't race > with us would just STFU, our threads wouldn't last nearly as long. >

Why don't you take your ball home and play on your own?