N2003: Question about setups and cheating

Let me start off by saying that I don't use any driving aids with the exception of auto-clutch and I drive in hard-core mode (cockpit, smoke, etc.). I have a Qual setup for Atlanta that allows me to run a 28.4 and sometime even a few hundredths faster (apx 28.38). Again, I am not using driving aids. If you look at the setup it has some very drastic settings, the most notable is that all the weight is shifted to the rear. Is this what is considered an "unreal" setup and a cheat (again, can be driven w/o aids)? Or is this a fair setup? In my way of thinking since the game will let you make these adjustments and the car can be driven w/o aids that it is fair play, but I have seen some talk on papy boards about unreal setups and cheating and just wondered if this is something they would consider unfair or a cheat. Brian

If the game lets you do it i dont see how it could be cheating

frederickson wrote: > > If the game lets you do it i dont see how it could be cheating If the game lets you do it, then it's not cheating per se, however running with a totally unrealistic setup kinda removes the "sim" bit from the experience doesn't it ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> kirjoitti viestiss� news:[email hidden]...

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> > > frederickson wrote: > > > > If the game lets you do it i dont see how it could be cheating > > If the game lets you do it, then it's not cheating per se, however > running with a totally unrealistic setup kinda removes the "sim" bit > from the experience doesn't it ? > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "goyl at nettx dot no"

Thats why we all are waiting for the patch. The readme posted on sierra's forums indicates that this problem should be corrected by the patch. If Sierra only got the Quality Assurance people working... -- MT

Yea but how do you know what a realistic setup is

frederickson wrote: > > Yea but how do you know what a realistic setup is Good Q Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Don Wilshe.... my qual time 38.250 ... i dont think anyone will have problem with your time... > > I have a Qual setup for Atlanta that allows me to run a 28.4 and > sometime even a few hundredths faster (apx 28.38). Again, I am not > using driving aids. I think the user community realizes by now that stability control and traction control do in fact slow you down.. well they do me by at least 1 mph. But what they seem most upset is Steering Assist even though TSW tells you to run at least 20% SA because of the NASCAR 2003 game.. > If you look at the setup it has some very drastic > settings, the most notable is that all the weight is shifted to the > rear. I run the 1650 forward weight as well. Sure helps the car turn and it also saves tire wear... Now the fast people that I run with and that would be XFM and SEBRING have no complaints about anything in the game that you use as its part of it. But those that are typically 3 ro 4 mph slower complain bitterly so any that is slower than you will call you all sort of names. I always wondered why these guys that accuse people of using any part of the game. always uses it as an excuse for there performance when they could simply use the same tools... Is this what is considered an "unreal" setup and a cheat > (again, can be driven w/o aids)? Or is this a fair setup? > It might be called UNREAL. Some would consider it unfair. I would consider it FAIR, but I dont care what people race me with as i dont get passed..lol. > In my way of thinking since the game will let you make these > adjustments and the car can be driven w/o aids that it is fair play, Let me make it simple. the fast guys agree and the slow guys dont consider it fair. But my experience is slow guys will always be slow and fast guys will be fast.. Most fast guys can run faster with the FAST setup than slow guys in OPEN setups.. > but I have seen some talk on papy boards about unreal setups and > cheating and just wondered if this is something they would consider > unfair or a cheat. > > Brian If you win here you run the risk of being called a cheater. You arent we know that. Just have fun and when the patch comes well see what we have... DW

I agree. My issues with driving aids and unusual setups was never about cheating. It was about knowing in a fixed setup environment what everyone was using. I drive outside the car. I don't consider that cheating so if I'm running open setups, I'm gonna get blasted just like anyone using driving aids. If the game allows bastardizing open setup racing with driving aids, funky setups, etc. then the issue should be with Papy, not the driver. Some say the patch will clean a lot of this up ... we'll see. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2AZRa.6578$[email hidden]... > If the game lets you do it i dont see how it could be cheating > >

The user community realizes something by now but that aint it porky :))) You know, you said just the opposite early on lol. So I went out and turned some of my best laps at Bristol, Las Vegas, with stability on to see what the hoopla was. I quit racing online not long after that because of it. Stability control does Not slow you down, and it does improve tire wear. Hell, Papy said as much in the patch press release. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "Don Wilshe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6d_Ra.32154$[email hidden]... > I think the user community realizes by now that stability control and > traction control do in fact slow you down.. well they do me by at > least 1 mph. But what they seem most upset is Steering Assist even > though TSW tells you to run at least 20% SA because of the > NASCAR 2003 game.. >

If the game allows you to do it under normal circumstances, and that ability is available to all players, then it can hardly be considered either cheating or unfair. Remember, it's only a *game*. Bruce. "Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In my way of thinking since the game will let you make these > adjustments and the car can be driven w/o aids that it is fair play, > but I have seen some talk on papy boards about unreal setups and > cheating and just wondered if this is something they would consider > unfair or a cheat.

>Remember, it's only a *game*. > >Bruce. and the grand canyon is just a hole in the ground in Arizona :) Dan

Compared to the ravines on Mars (and probably elsewhere in our solar system) yes, you're quite correct. :) Bruce. "Bamadano" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > and the grand canyon is just a hole in the ground in Arizona :)

"Brian Oster" wrote...

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> <snip> > In my way of thinking since the game will let you > make these adjustments and the car can be driven > w/o aids that it is fair play, but I have seen > some talk on papy boards about unreal setups and > cheating and just wondered if this is something > they would consider unfair or a cheat.

This is probably the oldest debate in simracing. Seeing as any model used to simulate a car wil, out of nescessity, be a simplification, there will allways be gray areas to explore using "abnormal" settings in the game. I don't think anyone using these types of setting should be labeled a cheater. If you can find immersion using these settings and keep them poiting in the right direction, more power to you. Use of these types of settings is one of the defining characteristics of a hotlapper, a term you might find equally offensive. Jan. =---

In article <GF9Sa.20609$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Jan Verschueren) wrote: > I don't think anyone using these types of setting > should be labeled a cheater I think as long as everyone enjoys the racing and doesn't use any "cheats" to give them an unfair advantage (eg rail riding) then it's essentially like real world racing where different classes of vehicles take part in the same race. In an ideal world everyone would own up to their settings (including maybe internal/external views) so winners in the various classes could be sorted out, but maybe that's expecting a bit much :-) Andrew McP

> ... But my experience is slow guys will always be > slow and fast guys will be fast... ..and cheaters will always be cheaters...

Goy Larsen wrote:

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> > frederickson wrote: > >>If the game lets you do it i dont see how it could be cheating > > > If the game lets you do it, then it's not cheating per se, however > running with a totally unrealistic setup kinda removes the "sim" bit > from the experience doesn't it ?

Agreed. In fact, it's fair to say you're only cheating yourself. Gerry

In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Oster <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> writes: >In my way of thinking since the game will let you make these >adjustments and the car can be driven w/o aids that it is fair play, >but I have seen some talk on papy boards about unreal setups and >cheating and just wondered if this is something they would consider >unfair or a cheat. I'd say if it's in the game, use it. Although I have to admit I would have a CLUE what was a realistic setup or not... I might create one simply changing numbers. Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 11:09:26 GMT, "Jan Verschueren" > >This is probably the oldest debate in simracing. Seeing as any model used to >simulate a car wil, out of nescessity, be a simplification, there will >allways be gray areas to explore using "abnormal" settings in the game. > Well I know this question might make it sound like I've been hiding under a rock (maybe to some degree I have been). The reason I asked was that I race in a fixed fast league with a few open races thrown in. Atlanta was an open race and I went in expecting too qualify mid-pack (some pretty fast guys in the league). Anyway, after qualifying I won the pole by 3 10ths... a pretty big margin. One of the guys half-way joking (but I detected a small bit of scencerity) basically stated that I was cheating. Like I have said before, I don't use driving aids and would never even think of using some sort of ram cheat. However, I did have this set that I downloaded that would not be anything like what I would have come up with and from what I can gather would never work in real life. Did a search on papy and this issue didn't get any clearer. Just wanted to make sure that there was not any sort of "gentlemans" agreement in the sim community NOT to use extreme setups, even if they were drivable w/o aids. Thanks for all the input... I feel vindicated. Brian Oster

Brian, there are setups out there were done in earlier versions of Nascar, N4 for example. They allow setup mods that you can't do inside N2003 but you can import into the game. Because Papy stopped using range checking a few versions back its possible this maybe one of these setups. I'm not saying it is but that could account for the unusual settings. Pete "Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 11:09:26 GMT, "Jan Verschueren" > > >This is probably the oldest debate in simracing. Seeing as any model usedto

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> >simulate a car wil, out of nescessity, be a simplification, there will > >allways be gray areas to explore using "abnormal" settings in the game. > > > > Well I know this question might make it sound like I've been hiding > under a rock (maybe to some degree I have been). > > The reason I asked was that I race in a fixed fast league with a few > open races thrown in. Atlanta was an open race and I went in > expecting too qualify mid-pack (some pretty fast guys in the league). > Anyway, after qualifying I won the pole by 3 10ths... a pretty big > margin. One of the guys half-way joking (but I detected a small bit > of scencerity) basically stated that I was cheating. Like I have said > before, I don't use driving aids and would never even think of using > some sort of ram cheat. However, I did have this set that I > downloaded that would not be anything like what I would have come up > with and from what I can gather would never work in real life. Did a > search on papy and this issue didn't get any clearer. Just wanted to > make sure that there was not any sort of "gentlemans" agreement in the > sim community NOT to use extreme setups, even if they were drivable > w/o aids. Thanks for all the input... I feel vindicated. > > Brian Oster >

Thanks Pete, I'll try "re-entering" the setup from the html printout and see if I can re-create it from scratch. Brian Oster On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:36:15 -0400, "Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> Brian, there are setups out there were done in earlier versions >of Nascar, N4 for example. They allow setup mods that you can't >do inside N2003 but you can import into the game. Because Papy >stopped using range checking a few versions back its possible this >maybe one of these setups. I'm not saying it is but that could account >for the unusual settings. > > Pete > >"Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.net> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 11:09:26 GMT, "Jan Verschueren" > >> >This is probably the oldest debate in simracing. Seeing as any model used >to >> >simulate a car wil, out of nescessity, be a simplification, there will >> >allways be gray areas to explore using "abnormal" settings in the game. >> > >> >> Well I know this question might make it sound like I've been hiding >> under a rock (maybe to some degree I have been). >> >> The reason I asked was that I race in a fixed fast league with a few >> open races thrown in. Atlanta was an open race and I went in >> expecting too qualify mid-pack (some pretty fast guys in the league). >> Anyway, after qualifying I won the pole by 3 10ths... a pretty big >> margin. One of the guys half-way joking (but I detected a small bit >> of scencerity) basically stated that I was cheating. Like I have said >> before, I don't use driving aids and would never even think of using >> some sort of ram cheat. However, I did have this set that I >> downloaded that would not be anything like what I would have come up >> with and from what I can gather would never work in real life. Did a >> search on papy and this issue didn't get any clearer. Just wanted to >> make sure that there was not any sort of "gentlemans" agreement in the >> sim community NOT to use extreme setups, even if they were drivable >> w/o aids. Thanks for all the input... I feel vindicated. >> >> Brian Oster >> >