new patch and mod thoughts

really impressed so far, really like being able to add shadows. I think people like Doug Ellison who poo-pooed on nr2003 over in the Racing Whatever forum should not be allowed to play any of the new mods.

"jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:JZz9b.682$[email hidden]... > really impressed so far, really like being able to add shadows. > I think people like Doug Ellison who poo-pooed on nr2003 over in theRacing > Whatever forum should not be allowed to play any of the new mods. > > What mods are possible? Is it just trucks? All the best, Ash http://www.siroccoracing.com

"jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:JZz9b.682$[email hidden]... > really impressed so far, really like being able to add shadows. > I think people like Doug Ellison who poo-pooed on nr2003 Not Poo Poooed N2k3 at ANY time. As a racing simulator it is currently unsurpased. What I HAVE poo-pooed is Nascar Racing itself. I find it amazingly boring, ugly and outlandishly americanized. Despite that - I've done two league seasons of racing using N2k2 (not using N2k3 - I had grown bored of the genre at the time - NOT of the racing titles itself) and enjoyed both an enormous ammount. By all means feel free to go and find a quote in which I slag of Papy's work in producing N2k3 - or where i've "poo-poooed" N2k3 - but you wont find anything. You'll find me slagging off Nascars themselves till the cows come home however - but you WONT find me slagging off N2k3 - as it's an excellent work that combines good netcode, physics, sound, and graphics - my ONLY gripe is that it's Nascars. These mods to some extent resolve that - although the mods are not far enough removed from Nascars for my liking they are still excellent work. Doug

terribly sorry. my mistake. "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bk6md0$pccjl$[email hidden]...

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> > "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:JZz9b.682$[email hidden]... > > really impressed so far, really like being able to add shadows. > > I think people like Doug Ellison who poo-pooed on nr2003 > > Not Poo Poooed N2k3 at ANY time. As a racing simulator it is currently > unsurpased. What I HAVE poo-pooed is Nascar Racing itself. I find it > amazingly boring, ugly and outlandishly americanized. Despite that - I've > done two league seasons of racing using N2k2 (not using N2k3 - I had grown > bored of the genre at the time - NOT of the racing titles itself) and > enjoyed both an enormous ammount. > > By all means feel free to go and find a quote in which I slag of Papy's

work > in producing N2k3 - or where i've "poo-poooed" N2k3 - but you wont find > anything. You'll find me slagging off Nascars themselves till the cowscome > home however - but you WONT find me slagging off N2k3 - as it's anexcellent > work that combines good netcode, physics, sound, and graphics - my ONLY > gripe is that it's Nascars. These mods to some extent resolve that - > although the mods are not far enough removed from Nascars for my likingthey > are still excellent work. > > Doug > >

How amazing, considering that NASCAR was conceived in the USofA. Shouldn't be allowed, really, should it? :) Bruce. "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bk6md0$pccjl$[email hidden]... > > What I HAVE poo-pooed is Nascar Racing itself. I find it amazingly boring,ugly and outlandishly americanized.

tee hee hee "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3f66f25f$[email hidden]...

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> How amazing, considering that NASCAR was conceived in the USofA. > Shouldn't be allowed, really, should it? > > :) > > Bruce. > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:bk6md0$pccjl$[email hidden]... > > > > What I HAVE poo-pooed is Nascar Racing itself. I find it amazingly

boring, > ugly and outlandishly americanized. > >

"Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote > > By all means feel free to go and find a quote in which I slag of Papy'swork > in producing N2k3 - well I could if I wanted to, but I don't feel like it.

"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3f66f25f$[email hidden]... > How amazing, considering that NASCAR was conceived in the USofA. > Shouldn't be allowed, really, should it? Actually - the art of oval racing was conceived in the UK Doug

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:20:54 +0000 (UTC), "Ashley McConnell" <[email hidden]> wrote: >What mods are possible? Is it just trucks? Papyrus added 3 new physics models: Busch Grand National Series Craftsman Truck Series Papyrus Trans Am Series (basically generic road racing physics) The last one is to die for, in terms of driving, and the graphical addon being prepared by Project Wildfire is going to be gorgeous (Vettes, Camaros, Mustangs, Jaguars). Driving the GPL tracks in PTA cars has actually caused me to go back and enjoy GPL more. The bit of the TPTCC race at the Glen that I was able to make was awesome, we ran about 10-15 laps nose to tail back through the field, which is pretty incredible considering the range of driver skills. It's good fun and taking Masta flat at 210mph with a low rear wing is exhilerating. =) Jason

"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:20:54 +0000 (UTC), "Ashley McConnell" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >What mods are possible? Is it just trucks? > > Papyrus added 3 new physics models: > > Busch Grand National Series > Craftsman Truck Series > Papyrus Trans Am Series (basically generic road racing physics) >

Trans Am might be worth a blast :) I have NR2003 but have never installed it! I will have to give it a go soon. Thanks! All the best, Ash http://www.siroccoracing.com

"Doug Ellison" said: > "Bruce Kennewell" said: > > How amazing, considering that NASCAR was conceived in the USofA. > > Shouldn't be allowed, really, should it? > > Actually - the art of oval racing was conceived in the UK Didn't the roman's ride around in oval too? -- ed_

"Doug Ellison" said: Didn't the roman's ride around in oval too? -- ed_

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:25:27 +0200, "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Didn't the roman's ride around in oval too? Cool, could Project Wildfire do a Ben Hur mod next please? -- Andrew. To email unscramble [email hidden] & remove spamtrap. Help make Usenet a better place: Check groups.google.com before asking a question. Don't top post. Trim your messages to include only relevent text.

"Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3f672c03$[email hidden]...

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> "Doug Ellison" said: > > > "Bruce Kennewell" said: > > > > How amazing, considering that NASCAR was conceived in the USofA. > > > Shouldn't be allowed, really, should it? > > > > Actually - the art of oval racing was conceived in the UK > > Didn't the roman's ride around in oval too?

Depends if you call Martinsville an oval Doug

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:36:40 +0000 (UTC), "Ashley McConnell" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I have NR2003 but have never installed it! I will have to give it a go >soon. Definitely get the patch, and then grab at least the beta Trans Am addon at project wildfire's site. It doesn't have the new car models, but it has new menu art and adds the series so you can test out the physics. Jason

There is also a IRL mod in the works, but I have a sneaky suspicion this one wont ever see the light of the day. Address is http://www.nros.org/irlmod Look interesting, just have a gut feeling about it though. On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:13:52 GMT, [email hidden] (jason moyer) wrote:

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>On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:20:54 +0000 (UTC), "Ashley McConnell" ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>What mods are possible? Is it just trucks? > >Papyrus added 3 new physics models: > >Busch Grand National Series >Craftsman Truck Series >Papyrus Trans Am Series (basically generic road racing physics) > >The last one is to die for, in terms of driving, and the graphical >addon being prepared by Project Wildfire is going to be gorgeous >(Vettes, Camaros, Mustangs, Jaguars). Driving the GPL tracks in PTA >cars has actually caused me to go back and enjoy GPL more. The bit of >the TPTCC race at the Glen that I was able to make was awesome, we ran >about 10-15 laps nose to tail back through the field, which is pretty >incredible considering the range of driver skills. It's good fun and >taking Masta flat at 210mph with a low rear wing is exhilerating. =) > >Jason

"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:20:54 +0000 (UTC), "Ashley McConnell" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >What mods are possible? Is it just trucks? > > Papyrus added 3 new physics models: > > Busch Grand National Series > Craftsman Truck Series > Papyrus Trans Am Series (basically generic road racing physics) > > The last one is to die for, in terms of driving, and the graphical > addon being prepared by Project Wildfire is going to be gorgeous > (Vettes, Camaros, Mustangs, Jaguars). Driving the GPL tracks in PTA > cars has actually caused me to go back and enjoy GPL more. The bit of > the TPTCC race at the Glen that I was able to make was awesome, we ran > about 10-15 laps nose to tail back through the field, which is pretty > incredible considering the range of driver skills. It's good fun and > taking Masta flat at 210mph with a low rear wing is exhilerating. =) > > Jason

Any idea where I can get a TA setup for Spa? I just installed the TA mod 10 minutes ago. David G Fisher

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:49:19 -0400, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Any idea where I can get a TA setup for Spa? I just installed the TA mod 10 >minutes ago. Dave, I just use the Watkins Glen "fast" setup that comes with the project wildfire install and change the wing/brake bias/gears. At spa I believe I just knocked the brake bias down to 54%, the rear wing as far down as it would go, and increased the diff significantly. Jason

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:31:19 GMT, [email hidden] (jason moyer) wrote:

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>On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:49:19 -0400, "David G Fisher" ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>Any idea where I can get a TA setup for Spa? I just installed the TA mod 10 >>minutes ago. > >Dave, I just use the Watkins Glen "fast" setup that comes with the >project wildfire install and change the wing/brake bias/gears. At spa >I believe I just knocked the brake bias down to 54%, the rear wing as >far down as it would go, and increased the diff significantly. > >Jason

Hmm trading stability in the turns for a higher top end and acceleration... Is the 210 at the Kink by yourself, or in a draft? John DiFool

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:19:25 GMT, John DiFool <[email hidden]> wrote: >Hmm trading stability in the turns for a higher top end and >acceleration... Is the 210 at the Kink by yourself, or in a >draft? By myself, altho IIRC it's more like 210 entrance and 205 exit. I'm a few seconds faster with the wing knocked down than with it up, but admittedly Buernville is a lot more interesting and I've countersteered it into the edges there a few times. =) Jason

We were talking about "NASCAR" - not "the art of oval racing". And for Christ's sake - don't compare Brooklands of the 1920's - 1930's with NASCAR! Bruce. "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bk75o6$ppo36$[email hidden]... > > Actually - the art of oval racing was conceived in the UK

> And for Christ's sake - don't compare Brooklands of the 1920's - 1930'swith > NASCAR! I know - I'm sorry. Amazing how much progress has been made in 70 years. Did I say progress. Oops. My bad. Doug

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:31:49 GMT, [email hidden] (jason moyer) wrote:

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>On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:19:25 GMT, John DiFool ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>Hmm trading stability in the turns for a higher top end and >>acceleration... Is the 210 at the Kink by yourself, or in a >>draft? > >By myself, altho IIRC it's more like 210 entrance and 205 exit. > >I'm a few seconds faster with the wing knocked down than with it up, >but admittedly Buernville is a lot more interesting and I've >countersteered it into the edges there a few times. =) > >Jason

Well, if you can get around Spa with a low spoiler, more power to ya. ;-) I tried it last night, and was hopelessly loose, esp. in places like Malmedy where it will kill you. [durned aliens...] JD

"jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8%D9b.17631$[email hidden]...

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> > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > > By all means feel free to go and find a quote in which I slag of Papy's > work > > in producing N2k3 - > > > well I could if I wanted to

Prove it. I know you're lying - so I challenge you to prove it

That's fun. :-) I did exactly as you said, and with a differential of 2.950, I was just about hitting 210 going into the Masta kink. Floored it all the way through. Most of those turns are fun with that car. Thanks for the setup advice. David G Fisher "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:49:19 -0400, "David G Fisher" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Any idea where I can get a TA setup for Spa? I just installed the TA mod10

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> >minutes ago. > > Dave, I just use the Watkins Glen "fast" setup that comes with the > project wildfire install and change the wing/brake bias/gears. At spa > I believe I just knocked the brake bias down to 54%, the rear wing as > far down as it would go, and increased the diff significantly. > > Jason

"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:19:25 GMT, John DiFool > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Hmm trading stability in the turns for a higher top end and > >acceleration... Is the 210 at the Kink by yourself, or in a > >draft? > > By myself, altho IIRC it's more like 210 entrance and 205 exit. > > I'm a few seconds faster with the wing knocked down than with it up, > but admittedly Buernville is a lot more interesting and I've > countersteered it into the edges there a few times. =) > > Jason

My best is a 3:04.8. with the wing at 60. Doesn't seem to make any difference to me whether I have it at 45 or 60 though. Times are about the same now. I'm pretty much a rookie at this track compared to many here though (my GPL history isn't a secret :-o), so I'm probably not very good for judging a setup. Is that time any good? David G Fisher

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:04:55 -0400, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >My best is a 3:04.8. with the wing at 60. 60 is probably a decent compromise, I'd imagine. I'm at the same time as you are and versus the fast guys I'm losing 3 seconds in Stavelot (using 45 wing). No problems anywhere else, just need to be smooth through Buernville and Stavelot. Being loose actually feels pretty good through Eau Rouge, I can stay on the gas until past the dip, brake/downshift to third, and then hammer the gas and the rearend kicks out just enough to point me at the hill on the left. I desperately need to find time in Stavelot tho... Jason

http://home.comcast.net/~davegf/ Here's a copy of my lap. If you get the chance, maybe you can give me some pointers as to where I'm losing time. I don't know where to look to see hot laps for the TA mod. David G Fisher "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:04:55 -0400, "David G Fisher" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >My best is a 3:04.8. with the wing at 60. > > 60 is probably a decent compromise, I'd imagine. I'm at the same time > as you are and versus the fast guys I'm losing 3 seconds in Stavelot > (using 45 wing). No problems anywhere else, just need to be smooth > through Buernville and Stavelot. Being loose actually feels pretty > good through Eau Rouge, I can stay on the gas until past the dip, > brake/downshift to third, and then hammer the gas and the rearend > kicks out just enough to point me at the hill on the left. I > desperately need to find time in Stavelot tho... > > Jason

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:26:13 -0400, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>http://home.comcast.net/~davegf/ > >Here's a copy of my lap. If you get the chance, maybe you can give me some >pointers as to where I'm losing time. I don't know where to look to see hot >laps for the TA mod. > >David G Fisher >

Well, I'm no alien by any stretch of the imagination, but key turn by key turn: 1. Eau Rouge: gotta hug the left fence as close as you can after the start finish, where the fence starts to hook left. Then tap the brake just slightly to set the car going in the right direction (right), smoothly but quickly reapply throttle, turn the wheel firmly but smoothly to the right, trying to hug the right side of the track as much as possible, then left over the left sandy curb as you exit (but if you hit the hill you're dead). I can manage an apex speed in the low 150's, close to 160 on exit. 2. Les Combes: This isn't that bad because it's harder to lock your brakes up when braking uphill. :-) I hit them right before the black mark on the pavement, actually trying to position the car a bit to the right of said mark. Apex speed of 95 is okay because if I go higher I lose too much speed on exit. 3. Burnenville: You should be able to powerslide at full throttle through here if you set the car right with a slight flick of the wheel to the right. 3. Malmedy: Pain in the butt this turn is! Yoda says you have to hit your mark to turn right for the Masta straight just right, or you're either in the fence or you just lost a ton of time on that long straight. I brake hard for the lefthander, wait a beat, tap the brakes for the righty, and if I do it right I can get through at 135. Usually tho I am leaving paint all over the left rail... 4. Masta: Just hug the left rail as you enter-smooth is the word on the exit. If you're too late on entry say hello to the fence (tho once I did a barrel roll-with no damage turned on-and did a 4 wheel landing on the following straight!). 5. Stavelot: I've decided to brake early to set the car for the second sharper corner: if I don't I end up too wide, scrubbing off too much speed and time. Can take the first part flat out in a TA car tho. 157 as lowest speed if I do it right (maybe 25% of the time...). 6. La Carriere: I once went through at 170 here-have no idea how tho and haven't been able to since! The margin for error on your turn-in is so small here (tho usually you just mow the lawn on the left if you futz it up). 7. Blanchimont: Just a little bit slower than the last one, and you are doing a little powerslide through here too. 160 is a good apex speed. 8. La Source: Again uphill braker so you can be a little late (but not too much so!). Been much better of late here regarding lockups: the damn exit has an error in it now after Dave moved the pit entrance, and there's a bump there (hell probably should be bumps like that all over the place so I guess I shouldn't complain...). HTH! Someone else can probably give you better tips than I ever could, but it's a start... John DiFool

> Actually - the art of oval racing was conceived in the UK > FOR HISTOrY BUFFS, Turning left 2000 years ago: Circus Maximus (revised) It was at the first celebration of the Consualia in honor of Consus, an ancient god of agriculture, that the rape of the Sabine women was thought to have occurred. Romulus is said to have held chariot races then which were so distracting, says Livy, that "nobody had eyes or thoughts for anything else." While the men watched the races, their unmarried women were abducted by the Romans to be their wives. The races took place on either side of a brook that ran between the Aventine and Palatine hills, and it was in the middle of this valley that the Circus Maximus traditionally was thought to have been founded in the sixth century BC by Tarquinius Priscus, the fifth king of Rome. By channeling and bridging the stream, an euripus was created that served as a barrier (spina) for the track. Livy records that in 329 BC permanent starting gates were constructed and, in 174 BC, that they were rebuilt and seven large wooden eggs set up between columns on the spina to indicate the completion of each lap. There was reconstruction by Julius Caesar, and, in 33 BC, Agrippa supplemented the eggs with seven bronze dolphins, and had another set of eggs placed near the starting gates to mark laps for the charioteers. After a fire in 31 BC, Augustus constructed the pulvinar, a shrine built into the seating below the Palatine Hill, which was used as an imperial box to watch the games and where images of the gods were installed after having been brought in procession (pompa) from the Capitol. In 10 BC, Augustus also erected an obelisk on the spina as a dedication to the Sun and monument of his conquest of Egypt. This is the Circus that so impressed Dionysius of Halicarnassus, who described it in 7 BC as "one of the most beautiful and admirable structures in Rome." It measured approximately 2,035 feet in length and 460 feet in width and could seat 150,000. Outside, says Dionysius, "there are entrances and ascents for the spectators at every shop, so that the countless thousands of people may enter and depart without inconvenience." Inhabited by cooks, astrologers, and prostitutes, it was in this arcade of wooden shops (tabernae) that the disastrous fire of AD 64 broke out during the reign of Nero. Of the Circus then, Pliny the Elder considered it to be one of the great buildings in the world, able to seat 250,000 persons. (Seating capacity probably was closer to 170,000.) By AD 103, after another fire (possibly the one of AD 80), Trajan had restored the Circus to its greatest splendor, rivaling the beauty of temples says Pliny the Younger. Three stories high, with arches and engaged columns in the first story, the seating areas were divided into zones by walkways. The seats in the first tier were of marble and, aside from those in the front row, along a portion of the podium wall reserved for senators, and other seats for the equites who sat behind them, were not segregated as they were in the Colosseum and the theater. Men and women could sit together, an opportunity for flirtation and dalliance of which Ovid was not unaware. Although the Circus Maximus was designed for chariot racing (ludi circenses), other events were held there, including gladiatorial combats (ludi gladiatorii) and wild animal hunts (venationes), athletic events, and processions. Caesar showed wild beasts in the Circus and had a water-filled channel ten feet wide and ten feet deep dug around the arena to serve as a protective moat. When, in AD 63, it was filled in by Nero to provide space for additional seating, it no longer was safe to have animal fights in the Circus and, eventually, they were transferred to the Colosseum. By the time of Augustus, seventy-seven days were given over to public games during the year, and races were run on seventeen of them. There usually were ten or twelve races a day, until Caligula doubled that number and, from the time of Nero, twenty-four races became typical. Still, Domitian once had one hundred races a day but reduced the number of laps to five to fit them all in, and Commodus ran thirty races run in just two hours one afternoon in AD 192. These numbers are exceptional, of course, and not likely to have been repeated, if only because the horses had to be transported from the Campus Martius, where they were stabled, over a mile away. The chariots started from twelve gates (carceres), six on either side of an entrance that led from the Forum Boarium. Above sat the presiding magistrate at whose signal the races began. Far at the other end, along the sweeping curve of the track, was another gate by which processions entered the Circus. In AD 80, it was rebuilt as a triumphal arch to commemorate the conquest of Judea by Titus. On the spina, itself, were various monuments and shrines, including one to Consus and another to Murcia, who may have been the divinity of the brook over which the Circus was built. At either end were the metae or turning posts, both comprised of three gilded bronze cones grouped on a high semicircular base. There were thirteen turns, run counter-clockwise, around the metae for a total of seven laps (spatia), a distance of approximately three or four miles (approximately twice that of a modern track), depending upon how close to the inside the driver could stay. To ensure a fair start, the starting gates were built along a slight curve so that the distance to the break line, before which the chariots were not allowed to leave their lanes, was the same for each. Drivers were required to stay within a marked lane until that point was reached, after which they could jockey for position. Lots were drawn to determine which gate was selected. The presiding magistrate (either a consul or praetor) dropped a white starting flag (mappa), the gates to the stalls flew open, and the race began. The quadrigae was pulled by four horses, two outside horses, which were not yoked but harnessed only by a trace, and a yoked pair in the center, the right horse of which was considered to be the more important. The inside trace horse also had to be the strong to set the pace and take the turns around the metae. The number of sharp turns and the hard surface of the track meant that the animals often suffered concussions and strains or even broken bones. There were other dangers, as well, which Pelagonius, a fourth-century practitioner, enumerates in his Ars Veterinaria. They included blows to the eyes from an opponent's whip or a cut tongue from a bit pulled too hard. The horse's tail also could tangle in the reins, and usually was bound. Race horses were carefully bred and their conformation and pedigree a matter of importance. They did not begin racing until they were five years old (although Columella says that three-year olds could begin training) and often had long careers afterwards. The best horses came from stud farms in North Africa and Iberia (Spain), and were transported to Rome on special ships (hippago) designed for the purpose. Most often, those that competed in the Circus were stallions, which also were in demand for breeding. A popular horse often was recognized by sight, a fact about which Martial complains in not being so readily known, himself. If the horses were well bred, the charioteers (aurigae) who drove them were not. Most were slaves or freedmen and, like the gladiator, were infamis and of low social status. Competitors often would turn in front of one another, hoping to force a collision and cause their opponent to wreck (naufragium). To gain leverage, the charioteer wrapped the reins around his waist, and, in the event of a crash, could extricate himself only by cutting them away with a knife. Since fouls often were deliberate, the risk of being dragged was very real. There were times, too, when, as Martial hints, it might be prudent to hold back and not disappoint the expectations of the emperor. Too egregious a situation, however, and there would be an outcry from the spectators, who, as Ovid indicates, would wave their togas and insist that the race be stopped and run again. Cassius Dio records that the number of races that had to be started again eventually became so excessive that Claudius severely limited their number. Still, the best charioteers were lionized by the public, consulted and cursed as magicians (how else to explain their repeated victories), and fabulously wealthy, at least those who were freedmen, who always could threaten to drive for another faction. Prize money ranged from fifteen to thirty thousand sesterces to as much as sixty thousand for a single victory. Juvenal complains that a chariot driver could earn a hundred times the fee of a lawyer, and Martial writes of Scorpus winning fifteen bags of gold in an hour. Diocles, a charioteer from Lusitania (Spain) who competed during the reign of Hadrian and Antoninus Pius, won prize money totaling 35,863,120 sesterces before retiring at age forty-two. An inscription dedicated in his name records 1,462 wins in 4,257 races over twenty-four years, beginning with his first race in AD 122 at age eighteen (although he raced for two years before his first victory). One thousand sixty-four of these were in singles, in which he raced for himself rather than as a team. He rode nine horses to one hundred victories apiece and one to two hundred. Although there were others who won more victories, Diocles at least lived to enjoy his success. Scorpus, who had 2,048 victories, died in the arena at age twenty-six, his death eulogized by Martial and his gilded busts over all the city. The Circus was the most popular of the diversions provided by the emperor, the diverting panem et circuses which Juvenal satirizes, and its fans fanatical in their devotion to the races. Originally, professional stables were contracted to provide the necessary horses, personnel, and equipment; in time, these factions (factiones) became increasingly powerful. When Nero increased the number of prizes and races lasted all day, the faction owners (domini factionum), most of whom belonged to the equites, refused to hire out their horses for any less time, terms which one magistrate refused, threatening to have the chariots drawn by dogs rather than meet such an exorbitant demand. This monopoly was potentially threatening and, by the fourth century AD, it had been assumed by the emperor, who alone was to receive the gratitude of the populus in the Circus. Direct management of the factions now passed to their senior charioteers and horses were provided from the imperial stables. From the time of Augustus, it was in the Circus (as well as in the theater and Colosseum) that the populus could make its opinions known and petition for redress. Cassius Dio was at the Circus in AD 196, during the last chariot races before the Saturnalia, and relates the displeasure of the people at the continuing civil war between Septimius Severus and his rival Albinus. There, the plebs, safe in the anonymity of the hugh crowd, began to shout, "How long are we to suffer such things...How long are we to be waging war?" The emperor did well to heed such demonstrations of popular will and to indicate his civilitas (deference) at least by listening to them. For this reason, he was expected, not only to attend the games, but to appear to enjoy them (Julius Caesar and Marcus Aurelius both were reproached for attending to their correspondence), and it is not coincidental that the Circus was built next to the palace on the Palatine Hill. Although petitions made at the games often were granted, or at least justification offered if refused, there were limits to political expression. Dio relates the deteriorating situation under Caligula, who "no longer showed any favours even to the populace, but opposed absolutely everything they wished, and consequently the people on their part resisted all his desires. The talk and behaviour that might be expected at such a juncture, with an angry ruler on one side, and a hostile pople on the other, were plainly in evidence. The contest betwen them, however, was not an equal one; for the people could do nothing but talk and show something of their feelings by their gestures, whereas Gaius [Caligula] would destroy his opponents, dragging many away even while they were witnessing the games and arrsting many more after they had left the theatres." Indeed, two years later, in AD 41, Josephus records a demonstraton at the chariot races, "to which the Romans are fanatically devoted." There, the assembled crowd implored Caligula to reduce their taxes. But, when the emperor ordered that all those who continued to protest be killed, "the people, when they saw what happened, stopped their shouting and controlled themselves, for they could see with their own eyes that the request for fiscal concessions resulted quickly in their own death." Caligula, himself, was assassinated soon after. Factions were identified by their colors: either Blue or Green, Red or White. Domitian added gold and purple but they, like the emperor, were never popular and short-lived. Colors first are recorded in the 70s BC; during the Republic, when Pliny the Elder relates that, at the funeral of a charioteer for the Reds, a distraught supporter threw himself on the pyre in despair, a sacrifice that was dismissed by the Whites as no more than the act of someone overcome by the fumes of burning incense. According to Tertullian, these were the first two factions and, although the Blues and Greens are assumed to have appeared later in the first century AD, it is likely that all four colors extend back to the Republic. Whatever their origin, by the end of the third century AD, Blue and Green had come to dominate the other two factions, which seem to have aligned themselves as Red and Green, White and Blue. A pairing of Green and White, at least, can be seen from lead "curse tablets" that invoke the most terrible fate for rival factions. "I adjure you, demon whoever you are, and I demand of you from this hour, from this day, from this moment, that you torture and kill the horses of the Greens and Whites and that you kill in a crash their drivers..." "I conjure you up, holy beings and holy names, join in aiding this spell, and bind, enchant, thwart, strike, overturn, conspire against, destroy, kill, break Eucherius, the charioteer, and all his horses tomorrow in the circus at Rome. May he not leave the barriers well; may he not be quick in contest; may he not outstrip anyone; may he not make the turns well; may he not win any prizes..." Races always were between factions, who trained its own drivers and reared its own horses. If all four factions raced, there would be one, two, or three teams from each (which is why the Circus could accommodate as many as twelve teams). Nero, himself, actually raced, and once, despite being thrown and having to be reposited in his ten-horse chariot at Olympian games in Greece, was declared the winner, although his victory was so insulting that it later was not recorded. The emperors spent fortunes at the races, and bets were laid and race results anxiously awaited. Pliny relates that the head of one faction made the results of a race known by sending birds, whose legs were marked with the color of the winning team, to his home town. By the fourth century AD, the number of races had risen to sixty-six days each year. Ammianus Marcellinus complains that the plebs "devote their whole life to drink, gambling, brothels, shows, and pleasure in general. Their temple, dwelling, meeting-place, in fact the centre of all their hopes and desires, is the Circus Maximus. [They swear] that the country will go to the dogs if in some coming race the driver they fancy fails to take a lead from the start, or makes too wide a turn round the post with his unlucky team. Such is the general decay of manners that on the longed-for day of the races they rush headlong to the course before the first glimmering of dawn as if they would outstrip the competing teams, most of them having passed a sleepless night distracted by their conflicting hopes about the result." Not surprisingly, later Christian writers inveighed against the Circus, convinced that it was the devil's playground, although, to be sure, it was criticized less than the gladiatorial games or the theater. In De Spectaculis, Tertullian writes (c. AD 200) with the fervor of the converted that the very attraction of the Circus is what makes it so damnable. "Seeing then that madness is forbidden us, we keep ourselves from every public spectacle--including the circus, where madness of its own right rules. Look at the populace coming to the show--mad already! disorderly, blind, excited already about its bets!....Next taunts or mutual abuse without any warrant of hate, and applause, unsupported by affection....they are plunged in grief by another's bad luck, high in delight at another's success. What they long to see, what they dread to see,--neither has anything to do with them; their love is without reason, their hatred without justice." Three-hundred years later, Cassiodorus, in his Variae, is just as adamant. "However, this I declare to be altogether remarkable: the fact that here, more than at other shows, dignity is forgotten, and men's minds are carried away in frenzy. The Green chariot wins: a section of the people laments; the Blue leads, and, in their place, a part of the city is struck with grief. They hurl frantic insults, and achieve nothing; they suffer nothing, but are gravely wounded; and they engage in vain quarrels as if the state of their endangered country were in question. It is right to think that all this was dedicated to a mass superstition, when there is so clear a departure from decent behaviour." Ironically, in their condemnation of the Circus, the Christian apologists provide many details about it that otherwise would be unknown. Tertullian is the first to mention the spina. The eggs, he asserts, are symbolic of Castor and Pollux, twins born from Leda's egg; the dolphins, considered by the Romans to be the fastest of creatures, in honor of Neptune, who was patron of the equestrian order and of horses and riders. The chariots are dedicated to the pagan gods: the biga to the Moon, the quadriga to the Sun, and the seiugis to Jupiter. The Whites and Reds represented winter and summer, and were dedicated to Zephyrs and Mars, as the Greens were to the earth (spring), and the Blues to the sky or sea (autumn). Cassiodorus writes of stewards who ride out to announce the beginning of a race, and of the white break line. He also relates the origin of the mappa used to signal the start of the race: Once, when Nero had taken too long at lunch and the crowd grew restive, he threw out his napkin from the royal box to signify that he had finished and the games could begin. Cassiodorus is the last to speak of chariot racing in the west. A century earlier, Rome had fallen to the barbarians, and increasing political instability led to more factional violence. After AD 541, no more consuls were appointed (they could no longer afford the honor in any event) and the burden of sponsoring the races fell to the emperor. But there were other demands on the imperial purse, and the last race in the Circus Maximus is recorded to have occurred in AD 549. For a thousand years, horses had raced at Rome.

I've uploaded a 3:00.849 with a wing setting of 60, at 70� Clear no Wind to the TransAm Replays section of http://users.skynet.be/AchimT/start.html. I have a feeling that everything below 60 will become a lot harder to drive, while with a wing setting of 60 the car is still almost as stable as with a wing setting of 70. Achim "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:04:55 -0400, "David G Fisher" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >My best is a 3:04.8. with the wing at 60. > > 60 is probably a decent compromise, I'd imagine. I'm at the same time > as you are and versus the fast guys I'm losing 3 seconds in Stavelot > (using 45 wing). No problems anywhere else, just need to be smooth > through Buernville and Stavelot. Being loose actually feels pretty > good through Eau Rouge, I can stay on the gas until past the dip, > brake/downshift to third, and then hammer the gas and the rearend > kicks out just enough to point me at the hill on the left. I > desperately need to find time in Stavelot tho... > > Jason

Nice lap you @#*%$. :-) Care to share the rest of your setup? Your gearing must be different than mine. I can definitely see that from the replay. David G Fisher "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bkblvh$r64mm$[email hidden]... > I've uploaded a 3:00.849 with a wing setting of 60, at 70� Clear no Windto > the TransAm Replays section of http://users.skynet.be/AchimT/start.html. I > have a feeling that everything below 60 will become a lot harder to drive, > while with a wing setting of 60 the car is still almost as stable as witha

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> wing setting of 70. > > Achim > > > "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:04:55 -0400, "David G Fisher" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >My best is a 3:04.8. with the wing at 60. > > > > 60 is probably a decent compromise, I'd imagine. I'm at the same time > > as you are and versus the fast guys I'm losing 3 seconds in Stavelot > > (using 45 wing). No problems anywhere else, just need to be smooth > > through Buernville and Stavelot. Being loose actually feels pretty > > good through Eau Rouge, I can stay on the gas until past the dip, > > brake/downshift to third, and then hammer the gas and the rearend > > kicks out just enough to point me at the hill on the left. I > > desperately need to find time in Stavelot tho... > > > > Jason > > >

"John DiFool" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:26:13 -0400, "David G Fisher" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >http://home.comcast.net/~davegf/ > > > >Here's a copy of my lap. If you get the chance, maybe you can give mesome > >pointers as to where I'm losing time. I don't know where to look to seehot

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> >laps for the TA mod. > > > >David G Fisher > > > > Well, I'm no alien by any stretch of the imagination, but key turn > by key turn: > > 1. Eau Rouge: gotta hug the left fence as close as you can > after the start finish, where the fence starts to hook left. Then > tap the brake just slightly to set the car going in the right > direction (right), smoothly but quickly reapply throttle, turn the > wheel firmly but smoothly to the right, trying to hug the right side > of the track as much as possible, then left over the left sandy curb > as you exit (but if you hit the hill you're dead). I can manage an > apex speed in the low 150's, close to 160 on exit. > > 2. Les Combes: This isn't that bad because it's harder to lock > your brakes up when braking uphill. :-) I hit them right before > the black mark on the pavement, actually trying to position the > car a bit to the right of said mark. Apex speed of 95 is okay > because if I go higher I lose too much speed on exit. > > 3. Burnenville: You should be able to powerslide at full > throttle through here if you set the car right with a slight > flick of the wheel to the right. > > 3. Malmedy: Pain in the butt this turn is! Yoda says you have > to hit your mark to turn right for the Masta straight just right, > or you're either in the fence or you just lost a ton of time on > that long straight. I brake hard for the lefthander, wait a > beat, tap the brakes for the righty, and if I do it right I can > get through at 135. Usually tho I am leaving paint all over > the left rail... > > 4. Masta: Just hug the left rail as you enter-smooth is > the word on the exit. If you're too late on entry say hello > to the fence (tho once I did a barrel roll-with no damage > turned on-and did a 4 wheel landing on the following > straight!). > > 5. Stavelot: I've decided to brake early to set the car for > the second sharper corner: if I don't I end up too wide, > scrubbing off too much speed and time. Can take the > first part flat out in a TA car tho. 157 as lowest speed if > I do it right (maybe 25% of the time...). > > 6. La Carriere: I once went through at 170 here-have > no idea how tho and haven't been able to since! The > margin for error on your turn-in is so small here (tho > usually you just mow the lawn on the left if you futz it > up). > > 7. Blanchimont: Just a little bit slower than the last > one, and you are doing a little powerslide through here > too. 160 is a good apex speed. > > 8. La Source: Again uphill braker so you can be a little > late (but not too much so!). Been much better of late > here regarding lockups: the damn exit has an error in > it now after Dave moved the pit entrance, and there's > a bump there (hell probably should be bumps like that > all over the place so I guess I shouldn't complain...). > > HTH! Someone else can probably give you better tips > than I ever could, but it's a start... > > John DiFool

Thanks. I think I agree so far with all your tips. Online should be a lot of fun with the TA mod and this track. David G Fisher

"David G Fisher" wrote: > I'm pretty much a rookie at this track compared to many here > though (my GPL history isn't a secret :-o We knew your GPL past would come back to haunt you... IMHO the T/A replays look the most realistic road racing sim videos going. GPL (still!) is a blast to drive, but I have to concede the replays look a shade wild when watching externally. In car the lurid slides all feel under control. Watching a T/A replay looks that much more "real". I'm more than well impressed with this mod (still crap at Spa though!) :) Cheers Tony