RASCAR:KANSAS REDUX - Congrats Ginger

For me, it was overall a good race. Some confussion at the end on racing back to the line but I believe Dave had it right. Too bad he pitted. That was honorable Dave. Ginger played with me earlier and gave me false hope that I may be faster than him, but , as usual, he passed me when he was done playing, and went on to carry the day. Lots of fast cars at the end and it was too bad that lots went a lap down. We almost got a green flag pit but a yellow prevented it. The fastest car in practice, qual, and during the race quit in what appeared to me was some sort of yellow fit. No doubt he was fast. But that warning he gave just made me bust a gut. I mean really. A threat to leave the game if another yellow comes out was just too much. Last time I heard that kind of language was when the Beaver told Wally that he was going to hold his breath if Wally didnt do what the Bev said. I know we got some young guns racing, but that was just too young. Grow up dude and when you do, man you will be the package. By the way, congrats to yellowjacket. Good smooth racing. You made me proud son. See yall at Charlotte. grub

I thought he was bluffing but when he really left I was besides myself. Has got me to wondering, any thoughts about making martinsville a no yellow?

"grub" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > For me, it was overall a good race. Some confussion at the end on racing > back to the line but I believe Dave had it right. Too bad he pitted. That > was honorable Dave. Ginger played with me earlier and gave me false hope > that I may be faster than him, but , as usual, he passed me when he wasdone > playing, and went on to carry the day. Lots of fast cars at the end and it > was too bad that lots went a lap down. We almost got a green flag pit buta > yellow prevented it. The fastest car in practice, qual, and during therace > quit in what appeared to me was some sort of yellow fit. No doubt he was > fast. But that warning he gave just made me bust a gut. I mean really. A > threat to leave the game if another yellow comes out was just too much.Last > time I heard that kind of language was when the Beaver told Wally that he > was going to hold his breath if Wally didnt do what the Bev said. I knowwe > got some young guns racing, but that was just too young. Grow up dude and > when you do, man you will be the package. > > By the way, congrats to yellowjacket. Good smooth racing. You made meproud

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> son. > > See yall at Charlotte. > > grub > >

Man, I got all kinds of bogus flags and info. Don't know what was going on. I lost 2 spots at the end because some one said all lap cars must drive thru pits, of course I was the only dumb one to take that advice. My fault. Congrats to Ginger, and good run Grub. See ya at Charlotte. bluestringer

"bluestringer" wrote... > > <snip> > > > Man, I got all kinds of bogus flags and info. Don't > know what was going on. You got one for passing me as I entered pit road. I couldn't speed up because I was behind a line of cars when I heard the "pass the #42 car" and, believe me, it really stings me to hear another driver get a penalty like that (I have sped onto pitroad in the past to avoid the other car getting a penalty). I know the real Cup guys pass other cars either getting to pitlane or staying out on the track all the time. It really doesn't matter because the guy in the pits is going be stationary and come back out behind anyway. The game however uses pit entry as a foul line to determine a passing under yellow infringement. I know it's silly, I know it's difficult to judge it and keep track of the other car(s), but you have to do it or you get black flagged. It's as simple as that. And however bogus this implementation of the NASCAR rules is, there's nothing bogus about the black flag you get. You have to honour it or be DQ'd. Nobody's going to write another patch to fix this. I'll look into and explain the deal with Seery. I'll also try to write something up on the subject before Martinsville, because it's going to be hyper critical we get our yellow flag running together there. > I lost 2 spots at the end because some one said all > lap cars must drive thru pits, of course I was the > only dumb one to take that advice. My fault. I wouldn't say it was dumb of you to do the drive-through, but rather rude on the part of those that didn't. It's a very common courtesy thing towards the lead lap cars to get out of their way on a single file restart by doing a drive-through and I'm pretty sure it used to be in the common sense section of the rules, but I see it has been omitted since. Apologies. Jan. =---

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zFJfb.58741$[email hidden]...

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> "bluestringer" wrote... > > > <snip> > > > > > > Man, I got all kinds of bogus flags and info. Don't > > know what was going on. > > You got one for passing me as I entered pit road. I couldn't speed up > because I was behind a line of cars when I heard the "pass the #42 car"

and, > believe me, it really stings me to hear another driver get a penalty like > that (I have sped onto pitroad in the past to avoid the other car gettinga > penalty). > > I know the real Cup guys pass other cars either getting to pitlane or > staying out on the track all the time. It really doesn't matter becausethe > guy in the pits is going be stationary and come back out behind anyway.The

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> game however uses pit entry as a foul line to determine a passing under > yellow infringement. I know it's silly, I know it's difficult to judge it > and keep track of the other car(s), but you have to do it or you get black > flagged. It's as simple as that. > > And however bogus this implementation of the NASCAR rules is, there's > nothing bogus about the black flag you get. You have to honour it or be > DQ'd. Nobody's going to write another patch to fix this. > > I'll look into and explain the deal with Seery. I'll also try to write > something up on the subject before Martinsville, because it's going to be > hyper critical we get our yellow flag running together there. > > > I lost 2 spots at the end because some one said all > > lap cars must drive thru pits, of course I was the > > only dumb one to take that advice. My fault. > > I wouldn't say it was dumb of you to do the drive-through, but rather rude > on the part of those that didn't. It's a very common courtesy thing

towards > the lead lap cars to get out of their way on a single file restart bydoing

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> a drive-through and I'm pretty sure it used to be in the common sense > section of the rules, but I see it has been omitted since. Apologies. > > Jan. > =--- > >

No problem Jan. I was just confused as to what was going on. I also had to go to the end of longest line for pitting out of turn, but I thought I had already made one lap under yellow. This was when I was one lap down. Then I got another end of longest line for unsafe pit exit, I must have entered the track too early. I don't know, I just couldn't get things right today. Oh well, I'll try again next week. bluestringer

"grub" wrote... > For me, it was overall a good race. Some confussion > at the end on racing back to the line but I believe > Dave had it right. Too bad he pitted. That was > honorable Dave. The rule says 5 or less to go and the yellow came out with at least 5 1/2 remaining. I think Dave realised, but was stuck due to the game not allowing him to correct himself without black flagging the other drivers for passing under yellow. I would have been ok with him just going from where he was too, but he chose to do the drivethrough, which is commendable. > <snip> We almost got a green flag pit but a yellow > prevented it. I was going to pit that lap, but #48 came out of the pits and, realising he'd be in the way for me pitting anyway and faster on new rubber as well, I didn't try to beat him into turn 3. Whether I drifted or he drifted I haven't looked at yet, but we tangled and that was that. Sorry Brian, sorry guys.

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> The fastest car in practice, qual, and during the race > quit in what appeared to me was some sort of yellow fit. > No doubt he was fast. But that warning he gave just made > me bust a gut. I mean really. A threat to leave the game > if another yellow comes out was just too much. Last time > I heard that kind of language was when the Beaver told > Wally that he was going to hold his breath if Wally didnt > do what the Bev said. I know we got some young guns > racing, but that was just too young. Grow up dude and > when you do, man you will be the package.

Michael Shouler(*), driving the #16 car, did issue a warning he would leave if the race had 3 yellows or more. I wasn't sure whether he meant it at first, but had to conclude he considered it a priviledge he should grace our little outing with his presence. So I said what everyone was thinking at the first yellow and this sparked another gem as the race went green again: "So you don't care whether Andy Wilke drives in your race or not?" Pity I can't type and drive at 180mph+ at the same time or I would have pointed out that if Andy Wilke drove in RASCAR he'd have to earn respect from his fellow drivers just the same as anyone else (and, knowing Andy a little, I'm sure he would). Anyway... needless to say we had some fun at Mr. Shouler's expense and that probably messed us up for some 20 odd laps (disregarding the yellow laps), but you have to admit it was worth it... classic simracing moment!! ;-)) > By the way, congrats to yellowjacket. Good smooth racing. > You made me proud son. He did a fine job, for sure. I noticed the same surname, but, seings as it's a quite common name, I thought nothing of it. Well I'll be damned: a father-son combo in RASCAR... that's really quite something, IMO. Would you or Brian care to volunteer some more background info on the new blood? Jan. =--- (*) Rem.: just protecting the innocent, you understand. <g>

Congrads... Great race... pitted and got caught lap down.. race was over. dw "grub" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > For me, it was overall a good race. Some confussion at the end on racing > back to the line but I believe Dave had it right. Too bad he pitted. That > was honorable Dave. Ginger played with me earlier and gave me false hope > that I may be faster than him, but , as usual, he passed me when he wasdone > playing, and went on to carry the day. Lots of fast cars at the end and it > was too bad that lots went a lap down. We almost got a green flag pit buta > yellow prevented it. The fastest car in practice, qual, and during therace > quit in what appeared to me was some sort of yellow fit. No doubt he was > fast. But that warning he gave just made me bust a gut. I mean really. A > threat to leave the game if another yellow comes out was just too much.Last > time I heard that kind of language was when the Beaver told Wally that he > was going to hold his breath if Wally didnt do what the Bev said. I knowwe > got some young guns racing, but that was just too young. Grow up dude and > when you do, man you will be the package. > > By the way, congrats to yellowjacket. Good smooth racing. You made meproud

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> son. > > See yall at Charlotte. > > grub > >

"grub" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > For me, it was overall a good race. Some confussion at the end on racing > back to the line but I believe Dave had it right. Too bad he pitted. That > was honorable Dave. Ginger played with me earlier and gave me false hope > that I may be faster than him, but , as usual, he passed me when he wasdone > playing, and went on to carry the day. Lots of fast cars at the end and it > was too bad that lots went a lap down. We almost got a green flag pit buta > yellow prevented it. The fastest car in practice, qual, and during therace > quit in what appeared to me was some sort of yellow fit. No doubt he was > fast. But that warning he gave just made me bust a gut. I mean really. A > threat to leave the game if another yellow comes out was just too much.Last > time I heard that kind of language was when the Beaver told Wally that he > was going to hold his breath if Wally didnt do what the Bev said. I knowwe > got some young guns racing, but that was just too young. Grow up dude and > when you do, man you will be the package. > > By the way, congrats to yellowjacket. Good smooth racing. You made meproud

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> son. > > See yall at Charlotte. > > grub > >

Yellowjacket is the Grub's son?? That's great, father and son combo in RASCAR. He stung me a good one on one of the caution laps. Not his fault, everyone checked up in front of me, and I had to slam on the brakes. I tried to get my son interested in Nascar racing sims, but he prefers the role playing games like Ultima, etc. bluestringer

"bluestringer" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:TtKfb.40608$[email hidden]:

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> > "grub" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> For me, it was overall a good race. Some confussion at the end on >> racing back to the line but I believe Dave had it right. Too bad he >> pitted. That was honorable Dave. Ginger played with me earlier and >> gave me false hope that I may be faster than him, but , as usual, he >> passed me when he was > done >> playing, and went on to carry the day. Lots of fast cars at the end >> and it was too bad that lots went a lap down. We almost got a green >> flag pit but > a >> yellow prevented it. The fastest car in practice, qual, and during >> the > race >> quit in what appeared to me was some sort of yellow fit. No doubt he >> was fast. But that warning he gave just made me bust a gut. I mean >> really. A threat to leave the game if another yellow comes out was >> just too much. > Last >> time I heard that kind of language was when the Beaver told Wally >> that he was going to hold his breath if Wally didnt do what the Bev >> said. I know > we >> got some young guns racing, but that was just too young. Grow up dude >> and when you do, man you will be the package. >> >> By the way, congrats to yellowjacket. Good smooth racing. You made me > proud >> son. >> >> See yall at Charlotte. >> >> grub >> >> > > > Yellowjacket is the Grub's son?? That's great, father and son combo > in RASCAR. He stung me a good one on one of the caution laps. Not his > fault, everyone checked up in front of me, and I had to slam on the > brakes. I tried to get my son interested in Nascar racing sims, but he > prefers the role playing games like Ultima, etc. > > bluestringer > > >

Sounds like I missed most of a good race. I had some engine damage after the first yellow and then got hit again under the yellow later and got more damage. Decided to give it up, one question how do you get engine damage when hit from behind ? this patch sometimes is strange. Good for Grub racing with his son. I would invite my son but the last time we raced together was in karts. As I remember he is a little too aggressive (grows fangs and drools when the green flag drops) so maybe I won't :-). Jerry

Jerry Sterner <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> "bluestringer" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:TtKfb.40608$[email hidden]: > >> >> "grub" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >>> For me, it was overall a good race. Some confussion at the end on >>> racing back to the line but I believe Dave had it right. Too bad he >>> pitted. That was honorable Dave. Ginger played with me earlier and >>> gave me false hope that I may be faster than him, but , as usual, he >>> passed me when he was >> done >>> playing, and went on to carry the day. Lots of fast cars at the end >>> and it was too bad that lots went a lap down. We almost got a green >>> flag pit but >> a >>> yellow prevented it. The fastest car in practice, qual, and during >>> the >> race >>> quit in what appeared to me was some sort of yellow fit. No doubt he >>> was fast. But that warning he gave just made me bust a gut. I mean >>> really. A threat to leave the game if another yellow comes out was >>> just too much. >> Last >>> time I heard that kind of language was when the Beaver told Wally >>> that he was going to hold his breath if Wally didnt do what the Bev >>> said. I know >> we >>> got some young guns racing, but that was just too young. Grow up >>> dude and when you do, man you will be the package. >>> >>> By the way, congrats to yellowjacket. Good smooth racing. You made >>> me >> proud >>> son. >>> >>> See yall at Charlotte. >>> >>> grub >>> >>> >> >> >> Yellowjacket is the Grub's son?? That's great, father and son combo >> in RASCAR. He stung me a good one on one of the caution laps. Not his >> fault, everyone checked up in front of me, and I had to slam on the >> brakes. I tried to get my son interested in Nascar racing sims, but >> he prefers the role playing games like Ultima, etc. >> >> bluestringer >> >> >> > > Sounds like I missed most of a good race. I had some engine damage > after the first yellow and then got hit again under the yellow later > and got more damage. Decided to give it up, one question how do you > get engine damage when hit from behind ? this patch sometimes is > strange. Good for Grub racing with his son. I would invite my son but > the last time we raced together was in karts. As I remember he is a > little too aggressive (grows fangs and drools when the green flag > drops) so maybe I won't :-). > > Jerry >

I forgot, Mitch-Dave, whoever. I will miss the next three races as I'm going to Maui. Have fun, I know I will. Jerry

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 02:48:43 GMT, Jerry Sterner <[email hidden]> wrote: >Sounds like I missed most of a good race. I had some engine damage after >the first yellow and then got hit again under the yellow later and got >more damage. Decided to give it up, one question how do you get engine >damage when hit from behind ? this patch sometimes is strange. Did you watch the Busch race today? Getting hit hard in the rear seems to cause spontaneous explosions nowadays. =) Jason

I would, but then I would have to kill you. :) Honestly, yellowjacket is not my son, but he is kin. grub > > He did a fine job, for sure. I noticed the same surname, but, seings asit's

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> a quite common name, I thought nothing of it. Well I'll be damned: a > father-son combo in RASCAR... that's really quite something, IMO. > > Would you or Brian care to volunteer some more background info on the new > blood? > > Jan. > =--- > (*) Rem.: just protecting the innocent, you understand. <g> > >

Brian isn't my son, but my brothers son. grub "bluestringer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TtKfb.40608$[email hidden]... > > "grub" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > For me, it was overall a good race. Some confussion at the end onracing > > back to the line but I believe Dave had it right. Too bad he pitted.That > > was honorable Dave. Ginger played with me earlier and gave me false hope > > that I may be faster than him, but , as usual, he passed me when he was > done > > playing, and went on to carry the day. Lots of fast cars at the end andit > > was too bad that lots went a lap down. We almost got a green flag pitbut > a > > yellow prevented it. The fastest car in practice, qual, and during the > race > > quit in what appeared to me was some sort of yellow fit. No doubt he was > > fast. But that warning he gave just made me bust a gut. I mean really.A > > threat to leave the game if another yellow comes out was just too much. > Last > > time I heard that kind of language was when the Beaver told Wally thathe > > was going to hold his breath if Wally didnt do what the Bev said. I know > we > > got some young guns racing, but that was just too young. Grow up dudeand

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> > when you do, man you will be the package. > > > > By the way, congrats to yellowjacket. Good smooth racing. You made me > proud > > son. > > > > See yall at Charlotte. > > > > grub > > > > > > > Yellowjacket is the Grub's son?? That's great, father and son combo in > RASCAR. He stung me a good one on one of the caution laps. Not his fault, > everyone checked up in front of me, and I had to slam on the brakes. I

tried > to get my son interested in Nascar racing sims, but he prefers the role > playing games like Ultima, etc. > > bluestringer > >

Don, In the future please start the race with your registered number.... (ARE you registered btw?) -- ed_ "Don Wilshe" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding news:nqKfb.54922$[email hidden]... > Congrads... Great race... pitted and got caught lap down.. race was over. > > dw > > > "grub" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > For me, it was overall a good race. Some confussion at the end on racing > > back to the line but I believe Dave had it right. Too bad he pitted. That > > was honorable Dave. Ginger played with me earlier and gave me false hope > > that I may be faster than him, but , as usual, he passed me when he was > done > > playing, and went on to carry the day. Lots of fast cars at the end and it > > was too bad that lots went a lap down. We almost got a green flag pit but > a > > yellow prevented it. The fastest car in practice, qual, and during the > race > > quit in what appeared to me was some sort of yellow fit. No doubt he was > > fast. But that warning he gave just made me bust a gut. I mean really. A > > threat to leave the game if another yellow comes out was just too much. > Last > > time I heard that kind of language was when the Beaver told Wally that he > > was going to hold his breath if Wally didnt do what the Bev said. I know > we > > got some young guns racing, but that was just too young. Grow up dude and > > when you do, man you will be the package. > > > > By the way, congrats to yellowjacket. Good smooth racing. You made me > proud > > son. > > > > See yall at Charlotte. > > > > grub > > > > > >

> Sounds like I missed most of a good race. I had some engine damage after > the first yellow and then got hit again under the yellow later and got > more damage. Don't know if it was you I hit, Jerry or somebody else. Needless to say, I ran into the back of somebody. Sincere apologies to whoever it was. I felt very stupid as I committed a very elementary mistake. I was cruising in line and all was well when I decided to check on my tyre wear and whether it was a good time to pit. I looked down at the keyboard to find F5 and as I looked up It was to see myself run into the back of the car ahead. Sheer stupidity on my part! Decided to give it up, one question how do you get engine > damage when hit from behind ? Normally, a gear is lost if hit from behind but engine damage is also likely, I would guess. I myself lost 1st gear in the collision. MS

Ed: I had #97 Where is the rascar website so i can verify Don

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> > And however bogus this implementation of the NASCAR rules is, there's > nothing bogus about the black flag you get. You have to honour it or be > DQ'd. Nobody's going to write another patch to fix this. > > I'll look into and explain the deal with Seery. I'll also try to write > something up on the subject before Martinsville, because it's going to be > hyper critical we get our yellow flag running together there.

What are you refering to here, Jan? The black flag at the end of the race or my comment about passing under yellow? I'm not sure where you are coming from. I crossed the finish line at the end of the race not having served a black flag but by then the result was of no consequence to me anyway. I had dropped from 4th to -2 laps by events in the last 15 anyway. I had quite an eventful race all in all. After a good qualifying run, I settled in to a rhythm and was lapping slightly slower than the leading pack in an effort to conserve tyres. All was fine until the first or second yellow came out. I ran into the back of somebody (my stupid mistake - apologies posted elsewhere) and had to head straight for the pits. As I approached my stall, I got broadsided by a car pulling out into my side and spun. This caused a tyre to blow. After finally manoeuvring into my pit and rejoining, I was well down. To make matters worse, I then got black flagged for unsafe merging, even though I did so on the back straight! Once we went green I had lost a lap. BTW, I was completely confused with rejoining the line here. I knew I had to go to the end of the longest line and my spotter was screaming at me to let cars pass by. At the same time I was getting chat messages from drivers of said cars telling me to get it on. That is why I was repeatedly telling them to go! Time to get a bit more agressive on track. I was able to overtake enough cars on the road to be in a position to get my lap back, courtesy of the leader, a couple of yellows later. Once back in the ball game, I charged from 20th back up to 4th position and felt in good shape. Then things really went pear shaped. On the following yellow, I entered the pitlane and got a penalty for doing so when it was closed. (Lesson learned here - never rely on your spotter to tell you it's closed, which he failed to do). This dropped me a lap down. At the last yellow, I was passed by a car racing back to the line although I believed at the time, we were outside the 5 lap window. Finally, on the restart, I got penalized for overtaking below a car before the S/F line. I need to put verify things the rules but I thought at the time that within 5 laps and starting from a single line that this was possible. As I say, I'll put myself right. Anyway, suffice to say that with 2 or so laps to run after the green, I couldn't be bothered with things and simply rode to the finish. If I got a dq then so be it..... Man, the driving bit of NASCAR really is the easy bit aint it!! I made a couple of bad calls last night but also had a lot of bad luck. Lapping on or near the pace is not a problem to me but I need to find that bit of luck and consistency right now..... MS

Results repports that you raced with car #800. How can you race in RASCAR without knowing our site and rules? :-) -- ed_ http://rascar.racesimcentral.com ----------------------------------------------- $10 says Petter Solberg wins the 2003 WRC "Don Wilshe" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding news:d9%fb.56993$[email hidden]... > > Ed: > > I had #97 > > Where is the rascar website so i can verify > > Don > > >

"Mark Seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:blq1ds$ngv$[email hidden]... > What are you refering to here, Jan? The black flag at the end of the raceor > my comment about passing under yellow? I'm not sure where you are coming > from. I crossed the finish line at the end of the race not having served a > black flag but by then the result was of no consequence to me anyway. Ihad

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> dropped from 4th to > -2 laps by events in the last 15 anyway. > > I had quite an eventful race all in all. > After a good qualifying run, I settled in to a rhythm and was lapping > slightly slower than the leading pack in an effort to conserve tyres. All > was fine until the first or second yellow came out. I ran into the back of > somebody (my stupid mistake - apologies posted elsewhere) and had to head > straight for the pits. As I approached my stall, I got broadsided by a car > pulling out into my side and spun. This caused a tyre to blow. After

finally > manoeuvring into my pit and rejoining, I was well down. To make matters > worse, I then got black flagged for unsafe merging, even though I did soon > the back straight! Once we went green I had lost a lap. BTW, I was > completely confused with rejoining the line here. I knew I had to go tothe > end of the longest line and my spotter was screaming at me to let carspass

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> by. At the same time I was getting chat messages from drivers of said cars > telling me to get it on. That is why I was repeatedly telling them to go! > > Time to get a bit more agressive on track. I was able to overtake enough > cars on the road to be in a position to get my lap back, courtesy of the > leader, a couple of yellows later. > > Once back in the ball game, I charged from 20th back up to 4th position

and > felt in good shape. Then things really went pear shaped. On the following > yellow, I entered the pitlane and got a penalty for doing so when it was > closed. (Lesson learned here - never rely on your spotter to tell you it's > closed, which he failed to do). This dropped me a lap down. At the last > yellow, I was passed by a car racing back to the line although I believedat > the time, we were outside the 5 lap window. Finally, on the restart, I got > penalized for overtaking below a car before the S/F line. I need to put > verify things the rules but I thought at the time that within 5 laps and > starting from a single line that this was possible. As I say, I'll put > myself right. Anyway, suffice to say that with 2 or so laps to run afterthe > green, I couldn't be bothered with things and simply rode to the finish.If > I got a dq then so be it..... > > Man, the driving bit of NASCAR really is the easy bit aint it!! I made a > couple of bad calls last night but also had a lot of bad luck. Lapping onor > near the pace is not a problem to me but I need to find that bit of luckand > consistency right now..... > > MS > > > Mark, that was me telling you to go. My spotter was telling me to stay behind the 00 car because I got a go to the end of the longest line penalty for entering a closed pit, which my spotter never said was closed. I had already made a full lap under caution before I pitted. I also got the unsafe entrance penalty, and I thought I was on the back straight. bluestringer #42

"Mark Seery" wrote...

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> > <snip> > What are you refering to here, Jan? The black flag at the end > of the race or my comment about passing under yellow? > I'm not sure where you are coming from. I crossed the finish > line at the end of the race not having served a black flag > but by then the result was of no consequence to me anyway. > I had dropped from 4th to -2 laps by events in the last 15 > anyway.

I was referring to the confusion surrounding your eoll penalty with regard to #42 and #98.

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> I had quite an eventful race all in all. > After a good qualifying run, I settled in to a rhythm and was > lapping slightly slower than the leading pack in an effort to > conserve tyres. All was fine until the first or second yellow > came out. I ran into the back of somebody (my stupid mistake > - apologies posted elsewhere) and had to head straight for the > pits. As I approached my stall, I got broadsided by a car > pulling out into my side and spun. This caused a tyre to blow. > After finally manoeuvring into my pit and rejoining, I was well > down. To make matters worse, I then got black flagged for > unsafe merging, even though I did so on the back straight!

IIRC you had two wheels on the speedway through 1 and 2 for a sec or two. RL guys drive straight out onto the track instead of following the apron under yellow, but this is another thing the game polices more strictly. > Once we went green I had lost a lap. BTW, I was completely > confused with rejoining the line here. I knew I had to go > to the end of the longest line and my spotter was screaming > at me to let cars pass by. At the same time I was getting > chat messages from drivers of said cars telling me to get > it on. That is why I was repeatedly telling them to go! I think #42 and #98 should have gone all the way around and line up behind you again, but I've still got to check the replay to make sure.

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> Time to get a bit more agressive on track. I was able to > overtake enough cars on the road to be in a position to > get my lap back, courtesy of the leader, a couple of > yellows later. > > Once back in the ball game, I charged from 20th back up > to 4th position and felt in good shape. Then things really > went pear shaped. On the following yellow, I entered the > pitlane and got a penalty for doing so when it was closed. > (Lesson learned here - never rely on your spotter to tell > you it's closed, which he failed to do). This dropped me a > lap down. At the last yellow, I was passed by a car racing > back to the line although I believed at the time, we were > outside the 5 lap window.

Correct. He shouldn't have raced.

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> Finally, on the restart, I got penalized for overtaking > below a car before the S/F line. I need to put verify > things the rules but I thought at the time that within 5 > laps and starting from a single line that this was > possible. As I say, I'll put myself right. Anyway, > suffice to say that with 2 or so laps to run after the > green, I couldn't be bothered with things and simply rode > to the finish. If I got a dq then so be it..... > > Man, the driving bit of NASCAR really is the easy bit aint > it!! I made a couple of bad calls last night but also had > a lot of bad luck. Lapping on or near the pace is not a > problem to me but I need to find that bit of luck and > consistency right now.....

The learning curve steepens... <g> Seriously, you have to have a plan when you start one of these races and you have to continually evaluate and adapt it as you go along. If you're just racing the guys around you, you're behind the game already. Jan. =---

In article <031gb.60425$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: >Seriously, you have to have a plan when you start one of these races and you >have to continually evaluate and adapt it as you go along. If you're just >racing the guys around you, you're behind the game already. Plan? *What* plan? Stay out of trouble, survive to the finish. That's about IT. I've never planned anything else - yellow flags usually mean that fuel strategy is moot. I'm not fast enough to actually contend for the lead. So yeah, I just race the guys around me. I'd be curious to know what you think I *should* be doing... Eldred -- Member Screamers Racing League IICC League Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Plan? *What* plan? Stay out of trouble, survive to the finish. That'sabout > IT. > I've never planned anything else - yellow flags usually mean that fuelstrategy > is moot. I'm not fast enough to actually contend for the lead. So yeah,I > just race the guys around me. I'd be curious to know what you think I*should* > be doing... > > Eldred Plan ? I thought that was a plan. At least when I thought of it. ;o) Elrikk

"Mark Seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:blpuoc$hek$[email hidden]:

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> > >> Sounds like I missed most of a good race. I had some engine damage >> after the first yellow and then got hit again under the yellow later >> and got more damage. > > Don't know if it was you I hit, Jerry or somebody else. Needless to > say, I ran into the back of somebody. Sincere apologies to whoever it > was. I felt very stupid as I committed a very elementary mistake. I > was cruising in line and all was well when I decided to check on my > tyre wear and whether it was a good time to pit. I looked down at the > keyboard to find F5 and as I looked up It was to see myself run into > the back of the car ahead. Sheer stupidity on my part! > > > Decided to give it up, one question how do you get engine >> damage when hit from behind ? > > Normally, a gear is lost if hit from behind but engine damage is also > likely, I would guess. I myself lost 1st gear in the collision. > > MS > > >

No problem Mark, been there, done that :-) It goes with online racing (shit happens) Jerry

> > Mark, that was me telling you to go. My spotter was telling me to stay > behind the 00 car because I got a go to the end of the longest linepenalty > for entering a closed pit, which my spotter never said was closed. I had > already made a full lap under caution before I pitted. I also got theunsafe > entrance penalty, and I thought I was on the back straight. > > bluestringer #42 Strange things going on indeed. I got the same penalty and it seems as though we were getting the same order to go to the back. Curiously enough we both had an infringement for rejoining on the backstraight as well.. Hmm - have we found a bug in the patch here? MS > >

I did ok, but I've definitely had better races. No incidents under green. Under yellow some weird stuff happened though. The worst of which was after we slowed a car went whizzing past me, got into the lane in front of me, and then hit thier brakes. I punted them into the infield. Sorry, but I wasn't expecting a Capitol Beltway move there :) My biggest problem was I simply could not figure out what the hell was going on with the car. Every now and then, for reasons I still don't understand, the front end would just wash out big time and send me to the wall. It was like a tire blew. It wasn't caused by over-driving the corner either. In fact, it actually seemed to happen more when under-driving the corner. I think a couple of other people had the same problem (Jan?). Saving the car from the wall when it happened was difficult. The harder you tried, the worse it got. I think I have an idea what it is but I won't know for sure until I get some time to tweak a setting in the Fast setup and re-test. If it's what I think it is, it is a situation that won't affect everyone and will depend on one's driving style. Larry "grub" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > For me, it was overall a good race. Some confussion at the end on racing > back to the line but I believe Dave had it right. Too bad he pitted. That > was honorable Dave. Ginger played with me earlier and gave me false hope > that I may be faster than him, but , as usual, he passed me when he wasdone > playing, and went on to carry the day. Lots of fast cars at the end and it > was too bad that lots went a lap down. We almost got a green flag pit buta > yellow prevented it. The fastest car in practice, qual, and during therace > quit in what appeared to me was some sort of yellow fit. No doubt he was > fast. But that warning he gave just made me bust a gut. I mean really. A > threat to leave the game if another yellow comes out was just too much.Last > time I heard that kind of language was when the Beaver told Wally that he > was going to hold his breath if Wally didnt do what the Bev said. I knowwe > got some young guns racing, but that was just too young. Grow up dude and > when you do, man you will be the package. > > By the way, congrats to yellowjacket. Good smooth racing. You made meproud

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> son. > > See yall at Charlotte. > > grub > >

No, you weren't. I don't know why it was requested either, but I did it nontheless. I stopped and got tires. Why not? Screwed anyway. Larry "bluestringer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YDIfb.40541$[email hidden]... > > "grub" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > For me, it was overall a good race. Some confussion at the end onracing > > back to the line but I believe Dave had it right. Too bad he pitted.That > > was honorable Dave. Ginger played with me earlier and gave me false hope > > that I may be faster than him, but , as usual, he passed me when he was > done > > playing, and went on to carry the day. Lots of fast cars at the end andit > > was too bad that lots went a lap down. We almost got a green flag pitbut > a > > yellow prevented it. The fastest car in practice, qual, and during the > race > > quit in what appeared to me was some sort of yellow fit. No doubt he was > > fast. But that warning he gave just made me bust a gut. I mean really.A > > threat to leave the game if another yellow comes out was just too much. > Last > > time I heard that kind of language was when the Beaver told Wally thathe > > was going to hold his breath if Wally didnt do what the Bev said. I know > we > > got some young guns racing, but that was just too young. Grow up dudeand

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> > when you do, man you will be the package. > > > > By the way, congrats to yellowjacket. Good smooth racing. You made me > proud > > son. > > > > See yall at Charlotte. > > > > grub > > > > > > > > Man, I got all kinds of bogus flags and info. Don't know what was going

on. > I lost 2 spots at the end because some one said all lap cars must drivethru > pits, of course I was the only dumb one to take that advice. My fault. > Congrats to Ginger, and good run Grub. See ya at Charlotte. > > bluestringer > >

Jan, You are talking about the yellow where Ginger gave me my lap back (thanks, Ginger!) but I was not permitted to go around. Believe me, I wanted to :) My spotter immediately started yelling "woah woah woah, stay behind the pace car" and I was hosed from that point on. I did try to go around, but got chewed out by the spotter as soon as I tried. It didn't feel right, and it wasn't right. But what are you gonna do ? My race was basically over at that point. -Larry "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:031gb.60425$[email hidden]...

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> "Mark Seery" wrote... > > > <snip> > > What are you refering to here, Jan? The black flag at the end > > of the race or my comment about passing under yellow? > > I'm not sure where you are coming from. I crossed the finish > > line at the end of the race not having served a black flag > > but by then the result was of no consequence to me anyway. > > I had dropped from 4th to -2 laps by events in the last 15 > > anyway. > > I was referring to the confusion surrounding your eoll penalty with regard > to #42 and #98. > > > I had quite an eventful race all in all. > > After a good qualifying run, I settled in to a rhythm and was > > lapping slightly slower than the leading pack in an effort to > > conserve tyres. All was fine until the first or second yellow > > came out. I ran into the back of somebody (my stupid mistake > > - apologies posted elsewhere) and had to head straight for the > > pits. As I approached my stall, I got broadsided by a car > > pulling out into my side and spun. This caused a tyre to blow. > > After finally manoeuvring into my pit and rejoining, I was well > > down. To make matters worse, I then got black flagged for > > unsafe merging, even though I did so on the back straight! > > IIRC you had two wheels on the speedway through 1 and 2 for a sec or two.

RL > guys drive straight out onto the track instead of following the apronunder

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> yellow, but this is another thing the game polices more strictly. > > > Once we went green I had lost a lap. BTW, I was completely > > confused with rejoining the line here. I knew I had to go > > to the end of the longest line and my spotter was screaming > > at me to let cars pass by. At the same time I was getting > > chat messages from drivers of said cars telling me to get > > it on. That is why I was repeatedly telling them to go! > > I think #42 and #98 should have gone all the way around and line up behind > you again, but I've still got to check the replay to make sure. > > > Time to get a bit more agressive on track. I was able to > > overtake enough cars on the road to be in a position to > > get my lap back, courtesy of the leader, a couple of > > yellows later. > > > > Once back in the ball game, I charged from 20th back up > > to 4th position and felt in good shape. Then things really > > went pear shaped. On the following yellow, I entered the > > pitlane and got a penalty for doing so when it was closed. > > (Lesson learned here - never rely on your spotter to tell > > you it's closed, which he failed to do). This dropped me a > > lap down. At the last yellow, I was passed by a car racing > > back to the line although I believed at the time, we were > > outside the 5 lap window. > > Correct. He shouldn't have raced. > > > Finally, on the restart, I got penalized for overtaking > > below a car before the S/F line. I need to put verify > > things the rules but I thought at the time that within 5 > > laps and starting from a single line that this was > > possible. As I say, I'll put myself right. Anyway, > > suffice to say that with 2 or so laps to run after the > > green, I couldn't be bothered with things and simply rode > > to the finish. If I got a dq then so be it..... > > > > Man, the driving bit of NASCAR really is the easy bit aint > > it!! I made a couple of bad calls last night but also had > > a lot of bad luck. Lapping on or near the pace is not a > > problem to me but I need to find that bit of luck and > > consistency right now..... > > The learning curve steepens... <g> > > Seriously, you have to have a plan when you start one of these races and

you

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> have to continually evaluate and adapt it as you go along. If you're just > racing the guys around you, you're behind the game already. > > Jan. > =--- > >

Jerry, That bizzare little damage quirk has been there from the start. For some reason, NR2003 thinks your valves are connected to the rear bumper, and if you get hit in the rear it drops the valve. I'm amazed that obvious nonsense wasn't fixed in the patch. Ditto for rolling over. You roll, you drop a valve. It's a done deal. Larry "Jerry Sterner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "bluestringer" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:TtKfb.40608$[email hidden]: > > > > > "grub" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > >> For me, it was overall a good race. Some confussion at the end on > >> racing back to the line but I believe Dave had it right. Too bad he > >> pitted. That was honorable Dave. Ginger played with me earlier and > >> gave me false hope that I may be faster than him, but , as usual, he > >> passed me when he was > > done > >> playing, and went on to carry the day. Lots of fast cars at the end > >> and it was too bad that lots went a lap down. We almost got a green > >> flag pit but > > a > >> yellow prevented it. The fastest car in practice, qual, and during > >> the > > race > >> quit in what appeared to me was some sort of yellow fit. No doubt he > >> was fast. But that warning he gave just made me bust a gut. I mean > >> really. A threat to leave the game if another yellow comes out was > >> just too much. > > Last > >> time I heard that kind of language was when the Beaver told Wally > >> that he was going to hold his breath if Wally didnt do what the Bev > >> said. I know > > we > >> got some young guns racing, but that was just too young. Grow up dude > >> and when you do, man you will be the package. > >> > >> By the way, congrats to yellowjacket. Good smooth racing. You made me > > proud > >> son. > >> > >> See yall at Charlotte. > >> > >> grub > >> > >> > > > > > > Yellowjacket is the Grub's son?? That's great, father and son combo > > in RASCAR. He stung me a good one on one of the caution laps. Not his > > fault, everyone checked up in front of me, and I had to slam on the > > brakes. I tried to get my son interested in Nascar racing sims, but he > > prefers the role playing games like Ultima, etc. > > > > bluestringer > > > > > > > > Sounds like I missed most of a good race. I had some engine damage after > the first yellow and then got hit again under the yellow later and got > more damage. Decided to give it up, one question how do you get engine > damage when hit from behind ? this patch sometimes is strange. Good for > Grub racing with his son. I would invite my son but the last time we > raced together was in karts. As I remember he is a little too aggressive > (grows fangs and drools when the green flag drops) so maybe I won't :-). > > Jerry

Mark, Actually, I think you hit me after _I_ hit Jerry. It was one of those accordian things :) It was a weird day. The only time I touched another car was under yellow. -Larry "Mark Seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:blpuoc$hek$[email hidden]...

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> > > > Sounds like I missed most of a good race. I had some engine damage after > > the first yellow and then got hit again under the yellow later and got > > more damage. > > Don't know if it was you I hit, Jerry or somebody else. Needless to say, I > ran into the back of somebody. Sincere apologies to whoever it was. I felt > very stupid as I committed a very elementary mistake. I was cruising in

line > and all was well when I decided to check on my tyre wear and whether itwas

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> a good time to pit. I looked down at the keyboard to find F5 and as I > looked up It was to see myself run into the back of the car ahead. Sheer > stupidity on my part! > > > Decided to give it up, one question how do you get engine > > damage when hit from behind ? > > Normally, a gear is lost if hit from behind but engine damage is also > likely, I would guess. I myself lost 1st gear in the collision. > > MS > >

In article <dthgb.58380$a16.40471@lakeread01>, "Larry" <[email hidden]> writes: >I think I have an idea what it is but I won't know for sure until I get some >time to tweak a setting in the Fast setup and re-test. If it's what I think >it is, it is a situation that won't affect everyone and will depend on one's >driving style. Isn't that the same with *any* setup? What some people see as deficiencies don't affect others at ALL. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Larry" wrote...

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> <snip> > > My biggest problem was I simply could not figure out what > the hell was going on with the car. Every now and then, > for reasons I still don't understand, the front end would > just wash out big time and send me to the wall. It was > like a tire blew. It wasn't caused by over-driving the > corner either. In fact, it actually seemed to happen more > when under-driving the corner. > > I think a couple of other people had the same problem (Jan?). > > Saving the car from the wall when it happened was difficult. > The harder you tried, the worse it got.

Ditto... it would sometimes pick up this terminal push through 3 and 4, which seemingly had no relation to the way one drove the corners. True, it was better when one really went in deep and rode the brake, killing the RF in the process, but I found no difference between normally and underdriving a corner. I also had to live with the plough untill I got way into 4 and could lift out/re-align the car for my drive out of the turn. If you notice, in the RL race, most hooked up cars (like Bill Elliot) take a fairly early apex through T3 and then just wide arc through T4, a line I just couldn't get to work for me using the fast setup. > I think I have an idea what it is but I won't know for > sure until I get some time to tweak a setting in the > Fast setup and re-test. If it's what I think it is, it > is a situation that won't affect everyone and will > depend on one's driving style. As I made an open setup from the fast setup I remember I did spent quite a lot of time on camber, castor and damper settings until I could get the car to respond predictably to the other setup changes. I also raised the car 1/2" all round. (I should really log this stuff to some sore of database). Cheers, Jan. =---

"EldredP" wrote... > > <snip> > Plan? *What* plan? Stay out of trouble, survive to the > finish. That's about IT. Those aren't plans, those are ideas/goals. Plans are what you are going to do to acchieve the above. > I've never planned anything else - yellow flags usually > mean that fuel strategy is moot. I'm not fast enough to > actually contend for the lead. So yeah, I just race the > guys around me. I'd be curious to know what you think I > *should* be doing... Fuel and tyre strategy are not mute. You need to know what your fuel and tyre windows are. Knowing when you're in your window can make all the difference if there's a late green stint in the race (as there often is). It's also important to know how your tyres wear: in stages, gradually or quickly at the beginning an less afterwards and how hard you can push and still get reasonable mileage out of them. Even if there's a caution every 5 laps at some point in a race, you can use the above knowledge to your advantage. For example: you have a tendency to qualify lower than you can actually run in the race. If you're at a track where, after the initial stick is gone, the tyres stay reasonably constant you can use a caution for track position. By the time the top 6 have gone around you the other's tyres will have lost their edge and you're where you need to be in the race. In a succession of cautions you can also skip pitting at one one to have a clear pit at the next, etc... The bottom line is you have to be thinking about what you need to do to be where you need to be at the end of the race all the time. If you indescriminately race those around you, you end up hurting your own effort. You have to continually evaluate whether taking or defending the position _now_ is worth it in de grander scheme of the race. Jan. =---

"EldredP" wrote... > <snip> > Isn't that the same with *any* setup? What some people > see as deficiencies don't affect others at ALL. True, setup is a very personal thing. Which is why I'm always amazed people will rather try to adapt to someone elses setup rather than attempting to set the car up to their own liking, but anyway... I wouldn't so much describe the intermittent behaviour by this setup as a deficiency, as a deficiency implies that one has defined what's wrong and knows how to avoid it or counteract it when it happens. That's not the case here, so I would rather call it a quirk. Jan. =---

In article <Z_Cgb.63611$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: >True, setup is a very personal thing. Which is why I'm always amazed people >will rather try to adapt to someone elses setup rather than attempting to >set the car up to their own liking, but anyway... Because not everyone has a setup ability. If you gave me a setup that I couldn't drive, I'm SOL. I might change the brake bias or steering ration. If that didn't work I wouldn't have a CLUE how to suit it to my driving style. So as a result, I usually wind up downloading a bunch of setups, and settling on one that "doesn't suck so bad". Meaning, it's the best out of what I've found and I can lap without crashing all the time. Then I tend to use that setup all the time at that track. I simply change the amount of fuel for the length of the race. If I come across another that's a bit better, that one becomes my preferred setup. That only becomes a problem when I have to start over(like now), because I never have to 'load' a setup. So now with all my setups gone I have to start looking all over again, and I don't remember what setups I was using at which track. :-( Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <kTCgb.63596$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>"EldredP" wrote... >> > <snip> >> Plan? *What* plan? Stay out of trouble, survive to the >> finish. That's about IT. > >Those aren't plans, those are ideas/goals. Plans are what you are going to >do to acchieve the above. > >> I've never planned anything else - yellow flags usually >> mean that fuel strategy is moot. I'm not fast enough to >> actually contend for the lead. So yeah, I just race the >> guys around me. I'd be curious to know what you think I >> *should* be doing... > >Fuel and tyre strategy are not mute. You need to know what your fuel and >tyre windows are. Knowing when you're in your window can make all the >difference if there's a late green stint in the race (as there often is). >It's also important to know how your tyres wear: in stages, gradually or >quickly at the beginning an less afterwards and how hard you can push and >still get reasonable mileage out of them. > >Even if there's a caution every 5 laps at some point in a race, you can use >the above knowledge to your advantage. For example: you have a tendency to >qualify lower than you can actually run in the race. If you're at a track >where, after the initial stick is gone, the tyres stay reasonably constant >you can use a caution for track position. By the time the top 6 have gone >around you the other's tyres will have lost their edge and you're where you >need to be in the race. In a succession of cautions you can also skip >pitting at one one to have a clear pit at the next, etc... > >The bottom line is you have to be thinking about what you need to do to be >where you need to be at the end of the race all the time. If you >indescriminately race those around you, you end up hurting your own effort. >You have to continually evaluate whether taking or defending the position >_now_ is worth it in de grander scheme of the race.

Then I guess we just call it different things. I don't think of it as a "plan". I consider a plan something you work out beforehand. I've delayed pitstops during a yellow for two reasons. One, to get a clear pit as you mentioned. Two, to try to lead *a* lap. My knowledge of my own lack of speed means that I'm not really concerned with track position. I usually come into the pits on *every* yellow flag. I don't think I've ever had a situation where I needed a pitstop that never came(as in too many green flag laps). I've also made a pitstop(during yellow) for the sole purpose of dropping back in the field. That way I don't have to keep from being run over as the fast guys pass me again(which I know they will). I've also made decisions on whether to let another driver pass depending on the situation. Near the beginning of the race, or if he's MUCH faster, I'll roll over without a fight. If it's late in the race, or he's *marginally* faster, I'll usually make him work harder for the spot. I've also had times where I was stuck behind a slower car, but couldn't get a run to make a move. In situations like that I've let a following driver pass in the hopes that a) I can sneak by when he moves on the other car b)they take each other out. So it appears that I *do* plan(using your terminology). But since those decisions are made 'on the fly', I disagree that it's a PLAN. Semantics, I guess... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" wrote... > Then I guess we just call it different things. I don't > think of it as a "plan". I consider a plan something > you work out beforehand. Perhaps I was not clear, I do think one should work it out beforehand. "If it goes green this is how I'm going to run my race." -Also, you should have certain "canned responses" to situations worked out ahead of time. At Kansas, e.g., I decided I would run 55 lap stints and start out at about 31.5s. This turned out to be slightly optimistic as the car degraded more on the fast setup than my open setup, but at least I had something base my actions on in the race. I was never in doubt about what to do next. > I've delayed pitstops during a yellow for two reasons. > One, to get a clear pit as you mentioned. Two, to try > to lead *a* lap. My knowledge of my own lack of speed > means that I'm not really concerned with track position. Big mistake, track position is everything. If you consistently put yourself at the back of the field, behind slower (yes, there is such a thing as slower than you! <vwg>) and banged up cars you're going to get more than your fair share of misfortune. For one you're putting yourself in danger of getting lapped easily. Frequent yellows means lots of people on the lead lap and in view of most groups of racers inability to get the field closed up to take the green you're giving up half a lap at most places being at the tail end. Second, being at the back means you're going to come across every wrecked/crippled/rejoining car as you make your way to the yellow. > I usually come into the pits on *every* yellow flag. Sometimes there's just no need. 1/2 a green lap + 4 laps of yellow don't put a lot of wear on a set of tyres. > I don't think I've ever had a situation where I needed a pitstop > that never came(as in too many green flag laps). Hehehe... I was waiting for one at Kansas, but like BP says: "If you're waiting for a caution, you stand a good chance of becoming the caution." ;-) > I've also made a pitstop(during yellow) for the sole purpose of > dropping back in the field. That way I don't have to keep from > being run over as the fast guys pass me again(which I know they > will). What's the problem with that? -The faster guy has to get around safely. As long as you don't intentionally make this hard for him, it's time gained and you stand less chance of dropping off the lead lap. You might surprise yourself about how little you actually retrograde on a longer run. > I've also made decisions on whether to let another driver pass > depending on the situation. Near the beginning of the race, > or if he's MUCH faster, I'll roll over without a fight. If it's > late in the race, or he's *marginally* faster, I'll usually make > him work harder for the spot. Yes, I've noticed that. There's some value either way off course, but, generally, if a fairly long green stint is on the cards (and one does develop a feel for that), I think it's best to let the slightly faster one go as well. Check it... the draft will help you keep up at most places. In fact you might be able to take it slightly easier through the turns, saving those all important tyres. Once the two of you have picked off the "chomping at the bit" corpses which usually litter the latter stages of a green stint, you lean on your ride a little harder and blow straight by your benefactor. <g>

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> I've also had times where I was stuck behind a slower car, but > couldn't get a run to make a move. In situations like that > I've let a following driver pass in the hopes that a) I can > sneak by when he moves on the other car b)they take each other > out. > So it appears that I *do* plan(using your terminology). But > since those decisions are made 'on the fly', I disagree that > it's a PLAN. Semantics, I guess...

No you're right, if you don't have something worked out beforehand which you take into account when deciding on a course of action on track, it's not "planning", it's "reacting". Jan. =---

> The bottom line is you have to be thinking about what you need to do to be > where you need to be at the end of the race all the time. If you > indescriminately race those around you, you end up hurting your own effort. What if your plan is to have indescriminate fun dicing with other cars? Won't all that strategy get in the way? ;)

>Perhaps I was not clear, I do think one should work it out beforehand. "If >it goes green this is how I'm going to run my race." -Also, you should have >certain "canned responses" to situations worked out ahead of time. > Ok, I do that more in GPL races. I know a fully fuelled car will run laptimes of xx seconds, and I can accept that. Most times, I choose not to make a fuel stop mid race. I'm not that much faster on a lower fuel setup, and my laptimes stay pretty constant throughout a fuel run. I'm sure that says something about my driving as well. <g>

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>At Kansas, e.g., I decided I would run 55 lap stints and start out at about >31.5s. This turned out to be slightly optimistic as the car degraded more on >the fast setup than my open setup, but at least I had something base my >actions on in the race. I was never in doubt about what to do next. > >> I've delayed pitstops during a yellow for two reasons. >> One, to get a clear pit as you mentioned. Two, to try >> to lead *a* lap. My knowledge of my own lack of speed >> means that I'm not really concerned with track position. > >Big mistake, track position is everything. If you consistently put yourself >at the back of the field, behind slower (yes, there is such a thing as >slower than you! <vwg>) and banged up cars you're going to get more than >your fair share of misfortune.

I know, but I consider that an better alternative to being run over by the faster cars as they barge past to take their 'rightful' place at the front of the order. I've lost count of how many times I've been punted by a faster driver who's upset that I *dare* be in front of him at ANY time... What sense does it make to be at the front of the field after a yellow when I know I'm 2 seconds per lap slower than everyone behind me? That's just an aggravation that just doesn't make any sense to endure. That's also why I prefer realistic damage and race length in GPL. If someone effs up in GPL, they're out. With shift-r or yellow flags available, they can repair(or close up under yellow) and barge past me again. I've had races in GPL leagues where the same car crashed, reset, passed me again, crashed again, rinse - repeat... All while I never put a wheel off anywhere. That's not really my idea of fun... Which reminds me - I need to host a full-length race soon. :-)

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> >For one you're putting yourself in danger of getting lapped easily. Frequent >yellows means lots of people on the lead lap and in view of most groups of >racers inability to get the field closed up to take the green you're giving >up half a lap at most places being at the tail end. > >Second, being at the back means you're going to come across every >wrecked/crippled/rejoining car as you make your way to the yellow.

Yeah, I know - but I'm going to be in the back anyway. Why not just START there, and lower the chances of being run over? >> I usually come into the pits on *every* yellow flag. > >Sometimes there's just no need. 1/2 a green lap + 4 laps of yellow don't put >a lot of wear on a set of tyres. See above - it's not always for wire wear... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"mcewena" wrote... > > <snip> > What if your plan is to have indescriminate fun dicing > with other cars? Won't all that strategy get in the > way? ;) You eat the wall when the driver with the plan loses his temper. Jan. =---

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1HXgb.66186$[email hidden]:

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> "mcewena" wrote... >> > <snip> >> What if your plan is to have indescriminate fun dicing >> with other cars? Won't all that strategy get in the >> way? ;) > > You eat the wall when the driver with the plan loses his temper. > > Jan. > =--- > >

You guys all sound like freekin' insurance salesmen. Gotta have a plan, gotta have a goal.... naw...I wake up, eat, work, play sleep. repeat as necessary. Plans??? Not this cowboy. dave henrie

"Dave Henrie" wrote... > <snip> > You guys all sound like freekin' insurance salesmen. > Gotta have a plan, gotta have a goal.... naw...I wake > up, eat, work, play sleep. repeat as necessary. > Plans??? Not this cowboy. That's fine... as long as I don't have to race you. ;-) Jan. =---

In article <1HXgb.66186$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>"mcewena" wrote... >> > <snip> >> What if your plan is to have indescriminate fun dicing >> with other cars? Won't all that strategy get in the >> way? ;) > >You eat the wall when the driver with the plan loses his temper.

Are you condoning punting drivers who are in your way? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" wrote... > <snip> > Are you condoning punting drivers who are in your way? I was ribbing Art, co-author of some of the most exciting and rewarding on-track battles I've had online, but, yes, I do condone punting to a certain extend. Internet conditions are such, even between good connections, there is no way to let someone know you're not really happy about them racing you in a controlled way (the equivalent of chatting "move over"), so I wouldn't recommend it in a battle for position, nor condone a bump and run on the last lap, but, if pushed to extremes, I will use the chrome horn and I wouldn't condemn anyone else doing so either. Example? -I'm in a Martinsville race. Somehow a total noob, who doesn't have clue as to what he is doing has gained access to the race through normal channels (i.e. he lied about his ability). He has been singlehandedly responsible for 8 out of 10 cautions so far and is now 9 laps down to the leader. On this last caution, he's mashed my car up good and I've had to make repeated stops to get a semblance of repair. We're on 1 to go and the lap car ahead of me leisurely drives out of pitlane. I chat "One to go Dennis, get a f***ing move on!!" (in Dutch). Dennis makes an effort, but I restart over 1/2 lap down. Dennis also senses I'm not feeling friendly towards him right now and gives me a wide berth. I'm ok, I can run with the leaders, they won't get me. Or will they? -Here's blunder boy on -9L and he's <bleep>ing racing me. Cuts me up once, twice, trice... "here comes the leader". This f***er has got to move now!! -He pinches me down going into 1 again, so I nail the throttle and punt the idiot into the backstretch pits. Am I proud of that? -No, but it needed to be done. I'm racing to stay on the lead lap and preserve my chances of winning that race (ended up 3rd, first lappped car was 9th). I'm also trying to mount a Championship challenge. I have nothing against people not being quite up to speed or having inexperienced drivers in the mix, but someone on -9L just doesn't mess with lead lap cars (or anyone less laps down than himself, actually). It's all about showing respect to one's fellow competitors. If one doesn't, I can understand those who have something at stake resorting to desperate measures. Jan. =---

In article <DN1hb.66971$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Am I proud of that? -No, but it needed to be done. I'm racing to stay on the >lead lap and preserve my chances of winning that race (ended up 3rd, first >lappped car was 9th). I'm also trying to mount a Championship challenge. I >have nothing against people not being quite up to speed or having >inexperienced drivers in the mix, but someone on -9L just doesn't mess with >lead lap cars (or anyone less laps down than himself, actually). It's all >about showing respect to one's fellow competitors. If one doesn't, I can >understand those who have something at stake resorting to desperate >measures.

Ok, given that situation I'm inclined to take your side. But the original discussion was about faster drivers stuck behind someone who was 'racing indiscriminately' punting said driver. Meaning that the driver ahead wasn't 'planning' his race, he just raced with whoever he was close to at the time. There was no mention about the slower driver being multiple laps down. I(as well as others, maybe) was thinking about a driver on the same lap who happened to be in front because of pitstops. Say a driver who'll probably finish 9th comes out in front of a guy who's podium-capable. At that point in time they're racing for position. Should the first driver just roll over so the other guy can be on his merry way? Even though I've done it(basically to keep from being the puntee), I don't agree with it. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

It's all about showing respect to one's > fellow competitors. If one doesn't, I can understand those who have > something at stake resorting to desperate measures. > > Jan. > =--- So...:)......did he PLAN on being 9 laps down? dave(being a very bad bad boy)henrie

EldredP wrote: > the order. I've lost count of how many times I've been punted by a faster > driver who's upset that I *dare* be in front of him at ANY time... Yeah well Eldred, I just couldn't wait ANY longer for you to finally step on the gas mate! ;)

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> aggravation that just doesn't make any sense to endure. That's also why I > prefer realistic damage and race length in GPL. If someone effs up in GPL, > they're out. With shift-r or yellow flags available, they can repair(or close > up under yellow) and barge past me again. I've had races in GPL leagues where > the same car crashed, reset, passed me again, crashed again, rinse - repeat... > All while I never put a wheel off anywhere. That's not really my idea of > fun...

The moment they bump into the rail, fly off the track, or crash in any shape or form, they LOST the race Eldred, no matter how many times they Shift-R afterwards. At that very moment you actually beat them. I never shift-r and, call me a online quitter, I always regard an 'out' an 'out' even in non-damage races - I regard them just like real life. If I f*ck up, I'm just out, period, and anybody I see flying off into the bushes and then resetting is 'out' as well, the rest of his race doesn't count, period. Regards, Rudy (GPLRank -10)

> >The moment they bump into the rail, fly off the track, or crash in any >shape or form, they LOST the race Eldred, no matter how many times they >Shift-R afterwards. At that very moment you actually beat them. > Doesn't show up in the standings, though.<g> >I never shift-r and, call me a online quitter, I always regard an 'out' >an 'out' even in non-damage races - I regard them just like real life. >If I f*ck up, I'm just out, period, and anybody I see flying off into >the bushes and then resetting is 'out' as well, the rest of his race >doesn't count, period. I've known people who feel that way as well. But since most people DON'T, you either have to deal with them winning, or join a full-damage league. I also know people who feel that a victory(or a good showing) just because everyone else fell off the track is nothing to be proud of. I tend to agree - *anyone* can go slow enough not to crash. It's not like you're actually racing for position, or anything. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Dave Henrie" wrote... > > <snip> > > So...:)......did he PLAN on being 9 laps down? I don't know, but he sure hadn't thought about how to get them back. ;-) Jan. =---

> > You eat the wall when the driver with the plan loses his temper. Loses his temper?! Sounds like he just didn't plan well enough ;)

EldredP wrote: >>Shift-R afterwards. At that very moment you actually beat them. > Doesn't show up in the standings, though.<g> No, but you and I know you still did. > either have to deal with them winning, or join a full-damage league. If I have seen anybody fly off into the scenery beforehand, I know *this one* at least didn't win. Not really, anyway. Like I said, it's like a real race, a small excursion on the grass won't put you out, but banging into the guardrail or crashing into some tree sure would. Personally, I only have a condescending smile for anybody who said he 'won' a race after shift-R'ing his way back in. When you're out, you're out. The real good drivers usually don't need this though, they'll beat us sub-averages anyway. > know people who feel that a victory(or a good showing) just because everyone > else fell off the track is nothing to be proud of. I tend to agree - *anyone* > can go slow enough not to crash. That's the secret of racing actually: going *just* fast enough to stay on the track. Crashing out and then hotlapping your way back up would get you nowhere fast in real life. Usually, your suspension is just bent or you're stuck in a sand trap somewhere. And if everybody else crashed out and you didn't, you're still the winner. May not have been the most exiting way to win, but to finish first you must first finish. Regards, Rudy (GPLRank -10)

On 09 Oct 2003 16:40:40 GMT, EldredP wrote: > can go slow enough not to crash. It's not like you're actually racing for > position, or anything. I once read in a racing book (might have been Skip Barber) that you should focus on racing against time, not against the other drivers ;-) uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Uwe =?iso-8859-15?Q?Sch=FCrkamp?= <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> On 09 Oct 2003 16:40:40 GMT, EldredP wrote: >> can go slow enough not to crash. It's not like you're actually >> racing for position, or anything. > > I once read in a racing book (might have been Skip Barber) that you > should focus on racing against time, not against the other drivers ;-) > > uwe >

I have heard a similar theory, of Racing the Track, not the other drivers. However, I have found that, in online racing, the other drivers tend to become angry when I 'race the track' and barrel thru them because they are on my preferred line. :) dave henrie (of course Goy will say if they are on MY preferred line, they must not be very fast drivers.....)