Papy 2003 vs Thunder 2004

Am thinking about buying one or the other and do not play online. Does one have better AI than the other? and is the career mode in 2004 any fun and any other things to make one better than the other? Thanks MILO

Milo, I prefer Thunder for solo play; the AI just seems to make the racing a bit more "involved". Career mode is also interesting. Love the graphics. Bruce. "Milo Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GYrgb.510575$Oz4.368856@rwcrnsc54... > Am thinking about buying one or the other and do not play online.

>"Milo Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote > Am thinking about buying one or the other and do not play online. > Does one have better AI than the other? and is the career mode in 2004 any > fun and any other things to make one better than the other? While NT might have an advantage for the gamers who don't have as much time or don't want to spend too much devotion with it, I would say that NR2003 is a superior simulation in every other field compared to NT. The AI is a little below the one of NT, but everything else makes up for it. EA is a couple of years behind Papyrus in 90% of their comparative elements. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

How is the track accuracy in Thunder ? (I've only played it briefly) At least it doesn't have the 'driving on glass' feel inherent to Papy's Nascar sims. The netcode is still something from the dark ages though from what I saw.

I can't answer that as I have never been to any of the tracks but, if using the Papyrus layouts as a yardstick, I'd say that Thunder's are bloody good. Bruce. "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bltt0e$ghci1$[email hidden]... > How is the track accuracy in Thunder ?

Not if one is only playing off-line; the AI behaviour is of over-riding importance to people like myself. In fact, track accuracy and physics take a back seat. You can't have decent racing without bloody good AI. In the area of graphics and sound, the EA product owes absolutely nothing to it's competitor. And as far as I'm concerned, the tracks are just as good as Papyrus'. For off-line racing, I now fire up Thunder (and GPL and NASCAR Legends and NASCAR 3). N2003 has been removed from my HDD. Bruce. "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:JYsgb.2720$[email hidden]... .... I would say that NR2003 is a superior simulation in every other field compared to NT. .......

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 02:27:41 -0400, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote: >While NT might have an advantage for the gamers who don't have as much time >or don't want to spend too much devotion with it, I would say that NR2003 is >a superior simulation in every other field compared to NT. The AI is a >little below the one of NT, but everything else makes up for it. EA is a >couple of years behind Papyrus in 90% of their comparative elements. I wish EA would bring out a demo for NT2004, it would help answer a lot of these questions. -- Andrew. To email unscramble [email hidden] & remove spamtrap. Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards, please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevent text. Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

They aren't that expensive, try them both. I would think that Thunder is probably more suited for the casual gamer, but NR2003 is a better simulation. "Milo Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GYrgb.510575$Oz4.368856@rwcrnsc54... > Am thinking about buying one or the other and do not play online. > Does one have better AI than the other? and is the career mode in 2004 any > fun and any other things to make one better than the other? > Thanks MILO > >

Driving on Glass ? Well, if you mean "on the edge" then welcome to Stock Car Racing :) Larry "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bltt0e$ghci1$[email hidden]... > How is the track accuracy in Thunder ? (I've only played it briefly) At > least it doesn't have the 'driving on glass' feel inherent to Papy'sNascar > sims. The netcode is still something from the dark ages though from whatI > saw. > >

> They aren't that expensive, try them both. I would think that Thunder is > probably more suited for the casual gamer, but NR2003 is a better > simulation. Don't jump to conclusions. There's nothing casual about Thunder 2004. The physics, graphics and AI are probably better than NR2003. It's the finishing touches and general polish where NR2003 is superior.

I agree, even as papy nut from their very start, after spending a great deal of time with NT2004, once you get past the hang up of it not being a papy sim, it is very good. As Mike said, the graphics,Physics and AI are as good if not better than 2003, my biggest grip is the lack of AI cars in Multiplayer, but the multiplay with other real drivers it good. There may a bit too much wheel spin when starting off, but it drives very,very well, and I have driven a "real" NASCAR @ Atlanta and Tally in the Richard Petty School, I'm not an expert but just from a visual and feel of the car I have to give the nudge to NT2004. So, don't get hung up on it not being from Papy, which I still play every day toofor the multiplayer, but for single player NT2003 is the way to go. Spend some time with it. One big hint, if you have a Momo wheel and try it, set it to -100 in the feedback, took me forever to get it to feel right and this was the key. "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:blue64$gkch2$[email hidden]... > > They aren't that expensive, try them both. I would think that Thunder is > > probably more suited for the casual gamer, but NR2003 is a better > > simulation. > > Don't jump to conclusions. There's nothing casual about Thunder 2004.The > physics, graphics and AI are probably better than NR2003. It's the > finishing touches and general polish where NR2003 is superior. > >

>"Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote > Don't jump to conclusions. There's nothing casual about Thunder 2004.The > physics, graphics and AI are probably better than NR2003. Real life Winston Cup drivers, unless they are doing this for contractual reasons, will all disagree with that statement. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:13:06 +1000, "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Don't jump to conclusions. There's nothing casual about Thunder 2004. The >physics, graphics and AI are probably better than NR2003. Hm. I'd say it's pretty casual when the AI is a good 2 seconds slower at most tracks than a reasonably competent human. I also find it weird that at some tracks, setting up the car to turn more makes it actually turn less, to the point where I have to steer the wheel left on the straight to keep it out of the wall. BTW, to anwer your above question, the tracks are slightly better except for the roadcourses, which are about the same as last time. Jason

And of course you'd know that for a fact, being an "insider", wouldn't you, Frank? :) Bruce. "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ehJgb.3024$[email hidden]... > > > Real life Winston Cup drivers, unless they are doing this for contractual > reasons, will all disagree with that statement.

>"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > And of course you'd know that for a fact, being an "insider", wouldn'tyou, > Frank? Uhhhhhh Bruce, what I stated is a fact. Go ask TJ Majors and Dale Jr. if they really race Thunder. You are somehow naive. Many people are directly or indirectly involved with the whole thing Bruce. Go ask the Winston Cup, BGN, Truck, or all the rest of the Nascar divisions (there are so many of them), and you'll see that they sometimes use Papyrus sims for their drivers, to maintain them in shape mentally. Not Thunder or any EA crap-o-matic. There's a reason for that. "Real life Winston Cup drivers, unless they are doing this for contractual reasons, will all disagree with that statement -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Sorry, Frank, but I can't "go ask" anyone. (Did >you< ask them when you had them over to your place? Guess you must have.) I don't know them, for a start, and they all live a bit far away, for a second and, thirdly, I really don't give a rat's rear-end whether they would necessarily "disagree with that statement" or not. It's immaterial. But thanks for assuming that I'm naive, Frank. It makes me feel years younger to be considered naive; nobody's said hat about me for donk's! Bruce. "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3nLgb.9496$[email hidden]... > > Uhhhhhh Bruce, what I stated is a fact. Go ask TJ Majors and Dale Jr. if > they really race Thunder. You are somehow naive.

As a matter of fact, in his book "Driver #8" Earnhardt jr. talks about his racing with NT several times. Before his first race at WG he tried out the track on NT and was amazed how correct the details was. Bo "ymenard" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding news:3nLgb.9496$[email hidden]...

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> >"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > > And of course you'd know that for a fact, being an "insider", wouldn't > you, > > Frank? > > > Uhhhhhh Bruce, what I stated is a fact. Go ask TJ Majors and Dale Jr. if > they really race Thunder. You are somehow naive. Many people are

directly > or indirectly involved with the whole thing Bruce. Go ask the WinstonCup,

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> BGN, Truck, or all the rest of the Nascar divisions (there are so many of > them), and you'll see that they sometimes use Papyrus sims for their > drivers, to maintain them in shape mentally. Not Thunder or any EA > crap-o-matic. There's a reason for that. > > > > "Real life Winston Cup drivers, unless they are doing this for contractual > reasons, will all disagree with that statement > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

Uh, not to put too fine a point on it, but NT didn't exist before Jr's first race at the Glen, and wouldn't for some years. Anyone out there with the book; does it actually say that or is our friend Bo...mistaken? "Bo Johansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QXPgb.3485$[email hidden]... > As a matter of fact, in his book "Driver #8" Earnhardt jr. talks about his > racing with NT several times. Before his first race at WG he tried out the > track on NT and was amazed how correct the details was. > > Bo

That may have been part of his EA deal to mention that in his book. Haven't seen it and not sure when it was written or published but I am 99% sure it would have been a Papyrus product at that time in his career. We used to race with Dale Jr on almost a daily basis. Not much in the last couple of years but quite a bit before. "Bo Johansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QXPgb.3485$[email hidden]...

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> As a matter of fact, in his book "Driver #8" Earnhardt jr. talks about his > racing with NT several times. Before his first race at WG he tried out the > track on NT and was amazed how correct the details was. > > Bo > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding > news:3nLgb.9496$[email hidden]... > > >"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > And of course you'd know that for a fact, being an "insider", wouldn't > > you, > > > Frank? > > > > > > Uhhhhhh Bruce, what I stated is a fact. Go ask TJ Majors and Dale Jr.

if > > they really race Thunder. You are somehow naive. Many people are > directly > > or indirectly involved with the whole thing Bruce. Go ask the Winston > Cup, > > BGN, Truck, or all the rest of the Nascar divisions (there are so manyof

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> > them), and you'll see that they sometimes use Papyrus sims for their > > drivers, to maintain them in shape mentally. Not Thunder or any EA > > crap-o-matic. There's a reason for that. > > > > > > > > "Real life Winston Cup drivers, unless they are doing this for

contractual

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> > reasons, will all disagree with that statement > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > >

"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3f83b0d0$[email hidden]... > But thanks for assuming that I'm naive, Frank. It makes me feel years > younger to be considered naive; nobody's said hat about me for donk's! You think you're all hat? :) Regards, Mark Davison V8 Thunder Admin http://www.v8thunder.com "Race your ass..."

>"Bo Johansen" <[email hidden]> wrot > As a matter of fact, in his book "Driver #8" Earnhardt jr. talks about his > racing with NT several times. Before his first race at WG he tried out the > track on NT and was amazed how correct the details was. Like I wrote, "unless they are doing this for contractual reasons" ;-) It wouldn't be the first time Jr says something about EA when he really meant about Papy. He has done that in the past, unfortunately. Trust me, ain't nobody racing NT seriously, else for the fun of it (I'm not denying it's not fun), but when somebody challenges Papyrus' physics, dynamics and track accuracy on ovals, Winston Cup drivers racing it sometimes even as a practice off the track, to keep them shaped up mentally, are there to prove it's superiority. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > I really don't give a rat's rear-end whether they would > necessarily "disagree with that statement" or not. It's immaterial. Yeah it's only Winston Cup drivers. What do they know about Winston Cup racing??? Gee what was I thinking� -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

He stated WC drivers, you questioned it, he qualified it. What's the big deal? You may live too far away to knock on their door, but in the age of assumptions one you can pretty much bank on is Dale Jr. and TJ Majors would not go near anything but a papy sim unless there was a camera in their face. Much the same way Dale Jr endorses plastic wheels when he actually uses TSW. And Jaun Montoya did not use an EA game to test road courses when running in Cart either, if that matters. :) -- Tim White "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3f83b0d0$[email hidden]... > Sorry, Frank, but I can't "go ask" anyone. (Did >you< ask them when you had > them over to your place? Guess you must have.) > > I don't know them, for a start, and they all live a bit far away, for a > second and, thirdly, I really don't give a rat's rear-end whether they would > necessarily "disagree with that statement" or not. It's immaterial. > > But thanks for assuming that I'm naive, Frank. It makes me feel years > younger to be considered naive; nobody's said hat about me for donk's! > > Bruce. > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3nLgb.9496$[email hidden]... > > > > Uhhhhhh Bruce, what I stated is a fact. Go ask TJ Majors and Dale Jr. if > > they really race Thunder. You are somehow naive. > >

Tim wrote: > > You may live too far away to knock on their door, but in the age of assumptions > one you can pretty much bank on is Dale Jr. and TJ Majors would not go near > anything but a papy sim unless there was a camera in their face. Much the same > way Dale Jr endorses plastic wheels when he actually uses TSW. You know what got on my nerves after watching TJ's Daytona interview (when it was raining)? The fact that he called the NASCAR Racing series a "video game", indirectly. Maybe it's just me, but I've always considered video games to be exclusively for the consoles and never on the PC. Was he afraid of showing his geeky-ness to millions of people, instead of saying "Yeah, Dale Jr. and I used to play NASCAR Racing X online a couple years ago...."? I doubt that Papy would've minded the free advertisment. ;) -Will

William Bradshaw <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > Was he afraid of showing his geeky-ness to millions of people, instead > of saying "Yeah, Dale Jr. and I used to play NASCAR Racing X online a > couple years ago...."? I doubt that Papy would've minded the free > advertisment. ;) > It's not that Papyrus would've minded...it's EA he had to please. EVERY car in NAscar has EA stickered on the front fender. Jr and probably some other drivers have personal endorsement contracts with EA. So I think it's reasonbly safe to assume TJ is smart enough to know where the extra cash is comming from and which hand NOT to bite. dave henrie

>"William Bradshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote > You know what got on my nerves after watching TJ's Daytona interview > (when it was raining)? The fact that he called the NASCAR Racing series > a "video game", indirectly. That's just TJ. He drinks Queernoffs FFS!! (oooold LikeReal LAN inside joke) ;) > Was he afraid of showing his geeky-ness to millions of people, instead > of saying "Yeah, Dale Jr. and I used to play NASCAR Racing X online a > couple years ago...."? I doubt that Papy would've minded the free > advertisment. ;) I agree that it's a shame that Papy never, ever got free publicity by a Nascar driver (not necessarily Winston cup but every other series they have) going : "I'm racing a sim called XYZ by the company Papyrus, it's produced by Sierra and it's an amazing software. You can race it almost like we do, even online against 42 other people and who knows you might race against me there!". But they are Nascar drivers. They know the value of their words ($$). Sierra never cared to market their motorsport lineup correctly. We've said that for the past 6-7 years now :) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> And of course you'd know that for a fact, being an "insider", wouldn't you, > Frank? :) > > Bruce. > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ehJgb.3024$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Real life Winston Cup drivers, unless they are doing this for contractual > > reasons, will all disagree with that statement.

OK - I'll throw my hat in the ring - I personally know a BGN driver (and not a nobody - top 5 in the championship in his last season) who uses NR2003 to keep sharp, try out setup ideas, etc. He's taken a job as an R&D manager for now, but he's keeping an eye out for rides, and last time I worked on his PC it was *very* important that I got NR2003 back on and working ;). Doesn't necessarily mean NR2003 is a better single-player experience (as a game), but for someone weighing which they'd rather spend time/money on it may matter what is considered to have the closest physics to the real thing. Just my 2cents, Kendt

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:31:42 +0200, "Bo Johansen" <[email hidden]> wrote: >As a matter of fact, in his book "Driver #8" Earnhardt jr. talks about his >racing with NT several times. Before his first race at WG he tried out the >track on NT and was amazed how correct the details was. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Good one. Jason

"Mark Davison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<foVgb.5327$[email hidden]>...

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> "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3f83b0d0$[email hidden]... > > > But thanks for assuming that I'm naive, Frank. It makes me feel years > > younger to be considered naive; nobody's said hat about me for donk's! > > You think you're all hat?

And a bag of hips... ;) Kendt

Being a former online team mate of both Dale Jr and TJ I can tell you are wrong. What you are paid to say and what you actually do are two different things. Pete "Bo Johansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QXPgb.3485$[email hidden]... > As a matter of fact, in his book "Driver #8" Earnhardt jr. talks about his > racing with NT several times. Before his first race at WG he tried out the > track on NT and was amazed how correct the details was. > > Bo

Jacques Villenueve used GP2/3 to practice - what's your point?

"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wM_gb.3747$[email hidden]... > Being a former online team mate of both Dale Jr and TJ I can > tell you are wrong. What you are paid to say and what you actually > do are two different things. > > Pete >I was told an interesting story that back when Neil Bonnet was driving the Valvoline sponsored car in the early 90's. His team would fill their motors with Kendall racing oil poured out of Valvoline bottles. They knew which product would perform better. ;-)

LOL! Bloody spell-checker. Works well except on grammatical sense! :) Bruce. "Mark Davison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:foVgb.5327$[email hidden]... > > You think you're all hat? >

>"Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote > Jacques Villenueve used GP2/3 to practice - what's your point? GP2. Anyway, your point makes mine correct. We are talking about the sim which is the most realistic. We trust Winston Cup drivers, who all really use the Papy sims, to know about Winston Cup racing more then anybody else. No? Same goes for F1 drivers who would really use a sim, not to have fun but as a serious tool to either keep them in shape mentally or perhaps even more with setups and track learning. Jacques did that back then, because GP2 was superior to everything else on the market. Remember, back then, you had something called Prost Racing, and F1 by Psygnosis. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Yes, I had heard that as well. :-) Pete "gordo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:z%%gb.5951$[email hidden]... > > > I was told an interesting story that back when Neil Bonnet was driving theValvoline > sponsored car in the early 90's. > His team would fill their motors with Kendall racing oil poured out ofValvoline bottles. > They knew which product would perform better. ;-) > >

You are definately right about that! ;) -Tim "Sloppy grammar is just as bad as sloppy spelling and denotes either laziness or ignorance or both." "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3f84cba4$[email hidden]...

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> LOL! > Bloody spell-checker. Works well except on grammatical sense! :) > > Bruce. > > "Mark Davison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:foVgb.5327$[email hidden]... > > > > You think you're all hat? > > > >

"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:mg7hb.12149$[email hidden]...

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> Yes, I had heard that as well. :-) > > Pete > > "gordo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:z%%gb.5951$[email hidden]... > > > > > > I was told an interesting story that back when Neil Bonnet was driving the > Valvoline > > sponsored car in the early 90's. > > His team would fill their motors with Kendall racing oil poured out of > Valvoline bottles. > > They knew which product would perform better. ;-) > > > >

This is probably a common occurrence with other oil sponsored teams too.

http://www.thomas-superwheel.com/feedback.html Anymore questions? EL "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ehJgb.3024$[email hidden]...

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> >"Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Don't jump to conclusions. There's nothing casual about Thunder 2004. > The > > physics, graphics and AI are probably better than NR2003. > > > > Real life Winston Cup drivers, unless they are doing this for contractual > reasons, will all disagree with that statement. > > > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > >

Easier to hide as well. Pete "gordo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZVkhb.10314$[email hidden]... > > > This is probably a common occurrence with other oil sponsored teams too. > >

Tim Miser wrote:

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> You are definately right about that! > > ;) > > -Tim > > "Sloppy grammar is just as bad as sloppy spelling and denotes either > laziness > or ignorance or both."

Or dyslexia. -- Gerry Aitken ...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer. - Book of Cyril, chapter 6, verse 16 This e-mail has been scanned for all known viruses by a fish called Colin.

> > "Sloppy grammar is just as bad as sloppy spelling and denotes either > laziness > or ignorance or both." ... So start using commas more often between words in lists. The "either /or" routine is only grammatically correct for two list items. <G> MS

"Mark Seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bm6i0e$32e$[email hidden]...

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> > > > "Sloppy grammar is just as bad as sloppy spelling and denotes either > > laziness > > or ignorance or both." > > ... So start using commas more often between words in lists. The "either > /or" routine is only grammatically correct for two list items. <G>

Bruce, you care to comment on that? -Tim P.S. - That sloppy grammar quote from my last post was written by Bruce Kennewell in a different thread a few weeks back so I just had to bring it up again!

"gordo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZVkhb.10314$[email hidden]...

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> > "Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:mg7hb.12149$[email hidden]... > > Yes, I had heard that as well. :-) > > > > Pete > > > > "gordo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:z%%gb.5951$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > I was told an interesting story that back when Neil Bonnet was driving

the

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> > Valvoline > > > sponsored car in the early 90's. > > > His team would fill their motors with Kendall racing oil poured out of > > Valvoline bottles. > > > They knew which product would perform better. ;-) > > > > > > > This is probably a common occurrence with other oil sponsored teams too.

Interesting, I guess I never noticed the irony of the Texaco sponsered car receiving gas from the orange Unocal bottles on pit road! -Tim

"Tim Miser" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > Interesting, I guess I never noticed the irony of the Texaco sponsered > car receiving gas from the orange Unocal bottles on pit road! > > -Tim > Or the fact that Texaco is now owned by Shell???