G R E E D, for a lack of a better term, is good. I suppose that is the motto

You clearly have no understanding of the business side of the *** industry, especially related to sports-game which include problems due to licensing people and places. FYI, call the Daytona USA store and buy 1 demo of the Daytona track. It is legal for you to modify it so you include the track in Nascar Racing 3, or Nascar Legends. What do you want more? Papyrus has given you diamonds, yet you whine that the plate in which they are presented is silver, not gold. -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

yes, I believe this chap is correct. papy's hands are tied yet they still managed to produce an authentic daytona track for nascar3 and sure, papy is contractually obligated to distribute it with the daytona 500 program only - any response they make, to anyone asking for a seperate copy or wanting to post this track online, will of course be patterened from their legal contract with dayton internation speedway. it wouldn't look good for papy if taken to court by dis with a fan site having an email from papy giving them a "go-ahead" to post this track. yet, papy worked so hard they surely didn't forget their fans...in fact, my opinion is that they want their true fans to have this (why else create a demo of a track not even included in the game?) and will take a 'what we don't know about can't hurt us' approach. so, the question is; are you willing to download daytona from a site that has posted it without the expressed writen permission of papy, after all - isn't it part of a demo?? -or do you want to wait until dis' current exclusive license with sega runs out and papy works out a license agreement with them to include it in nascar5? --hopefully by then cars will also be able to flip.

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> > Say what you want and flame me if you wish, but you know I am correct > > here. > You clearly have no understanding of the business side of the *** > industry, especially related to sports-game which include problems due to > licensing people and places. > FYI, call the Daytona USA store and buy 1 demo of the Daytona track. It

is > legal for you to modify it so you include the track in Nascar Racing 3, or > Nascar Legends. What do you want more? Papyrus has given you diamonds, yet

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> you whine that the plate in which they are presented is silver, not gold. > -- > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.WeRace.net > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't

realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

GPL a fiasco? Just because you can't figure out how to get it working correctly, don't post your whinings here. Quit cryin' ya big baby.

I agree with these guys, just follow me a minute, You can actually get on the internet, check email, FIND ng's, and probably surf the web. If you're above the age of 21, then you probably have more friends who aren't on the net than those who are. So, these 2 things probably make you feel very "tech savvy". I agree, you probably are, probably have a big TV and DVD. If you are so tech savvy that you would know about getting on the net, to find a track, for a game, which probably less than 1% of people in the US even know about in-depth, then don't you think that guys smart enough to actually PROGRAM that game know that releasing 100,000 copies of THAT track anywhere, especially free with race program as I heard it, is going to end up getting to the people who are into their game deep enough to find it? I say, good business move, great end run, can't wait till N4, I'll buy it. The other thing, after Daytona, we definitely need flipping cars. NFS does it, AND looks better in D3D. The perfect blend is out there somewhere, probably N5. Not flaming, just expressing a different viewpoint for you to consider, edb PS: Don't even own GPL, so no comment there. > yes, I believe this chap is correct. papy's hands are tied yet they still > managed to produce an authentic daytona track for nascar3 > and sure, papy is contractually obligated to distribute it with the daytona > 500 program only - any response they make, to anyone asking for a seperate > copy or wanting to post this track online, will of course be patterened from > their legal contract with dayton internation speedway. > it wouldn't look good for papy if taken to court by dis with a fan site > having an email from papy giving them a "go-ahead" to post this track. > yet, papy worked so hard they surely didn't forget their fans...in fact, my

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> opinion is that they want their true fans to have this (why else create a > demo of a track not even included in the game?) and will take a 'what we > don't know about can't hurt us' approach. > so, the question is; > are you willing to download daytona from a site that has posted it without > the expressed writen permission of papy, after all - isn't it part of a > demo?? > -or > do you want to wait until dis' current exclusive license with sega runs

out

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> and papy works out a license agreement with them to include it in > nascar5? --hopefully by then cars will also be able to flip. > > > Say what you want and flame me if you wish, but you know I am correct > > > here. > > You clearly have no understanding of the business side of the *** > > industry, especially related to sports-game which include problems due

to > > licensing people and places. > > FYI, call the Daytona USA store and buy 1 demo of the Daytona track. It > is > > legal for you to modify it so you include the track in Nascar Racing 3, or > > Nascar Legends. What do you want more? Papyrus has given you diamonds, > yet > > you whine that the plate in which they are presented is silver, not gold.

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> > -- > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > realise > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

R U AN IDIOT? -- // rrev at mindspring dot com // s.p.u.t.u.m. - unit.26 // http://www.cabal.net

Dear Melvin, I am sorry I hit you on the head so hard. Please do not go into anymore newsgroups just yet, however. You have several more months of therapy yet before you'll want to do that. --Momma Cass

Flame ME if you wish, but down deep inside, everyone knows they are rushing around like "chickens chasing Junebugs" attempting to locate their version of the DAYTONA track for either Nascar Legends or Nascar 3. Isn't it amazing that we can be loyal supporters of Papyrus all these years and support them when they would bring out each and every simulation? Yes, each and every one of you walk on water! Oh yes! I am amazed that each and every one of you have not been KNIGHTED by the QUEEN! Oh yes! Where is SAINTHOOD?????? *** We have stood by Papy because they made the best sims, HANDS DOWN! But, after that fiasco called GPL, and the PATCH ***that made it worthless and unplayable on my 500 speed computer updated to the latest equipment to the tune of over a thousand dollars, and now this slam in the face over the Daytona disk, just because WE aren't THERE, I have a problem with their mentality when it comes to loyalty of their customer base. I think they would feel pretty strange if they started producing simulations and we all started boycotting them and the sales figures perhaps fell in the column much as GPL did. At that point, I think they would understand what the term "come-back" sale really means, as that is what they truly depend on as each sim is released. Say what you want and flame me if you wish, but you know I am correct here.

What, if anything, in Sam Peckinpaw's Wide World of Sports are you talking about.......? On 2nd thought, never mind... it's obvious you don't know, and I really don't want to....

Oh just shut up.

You are correct here. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

*possibly the biggest PLONK of all time* -- Cheers! Graeme Nash

Frank, You know better than this. It is NOT legal to use the Daytona track outside its intended use in the DEMO. Using it in N3/NL is NOT legal. Scott PA-Scott PowerSims.com -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

Uh, you're ranting and entirely off base. Daytona and all it's issues are NOT Papy's doing, blame the track owners. It's been discussed to death. We had the same endless bleating about why they didn't come out with a 3dfx patch for N2 many moons ago, and again we had 95% of the people ignoring simple facts and running around screaming ***. And, BTW, I have the Daytona track on my machine - very, very easy to find, so I can't see it as that big an issue if you really want it you can find it. If they wanted to***us, guess what - it would NOT have been at all difficult to modify the track and the .EXE on the demo to where this Daytona would NOT be compatible with N3, only the .EXE of the demo disk. But they kept the standard track format, to where it just pops in. You think they didn't know it'd leak out? And, since when was GPL a "fiasco"? If it doesn't run well on your computer, sorry, YOUR fault, not Papy's. It runs great on my almost 2 year old P2-400 w/ a almost year old Voodoo3 3000, year old SB Live. Lemme guess, you ran out and "upgraded" to a GeForce or something based on hype, ignoring that GPL runs better on Glide cards such as the V3, yet want to blame Papy for this. Priceless -- Ken's Sig 3.01 "Who is the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi Go #43 and #44! volksy (at) yahoo (dot) com

On Tue, 22 Feb 2000 15:10:25 GMT, "Scott B. Husted" >Frank, >You know better than this. It is NOT legal to use the Daytona track outside >its intended use in the DEMO. Using it in N3/NL is NOT legal. Isn't it perfectly legal, if you purchase the NASCAR 3 software, and then you purchase the demo or whatever that has Daytona, to put it in YOUR copy of the game for your own personal use.... surely that can't be illegal - it's impossible to enforce..... That would be like saying it's against the law to open a file created with Microsoft Works using Excel. Now, if you own N3, and you download Daytona off the internet and use it, yeah, that's technically illegal.... but if you're using two pieces of software that you rightfully own (or more accurately, are licensed to use) that just happen to work together and you're not using it for your own financial gain or distributing it, I don't see how it's not legal....

Actually it is legal as long as OWN both the demo and N3, according to papy anyway.

It's because of the confusion of the Moderator comments on a N3 board Scott, I posted it there before Shawn corrected the person. There was/is some different opinions from Papyrus/Sierra about the legalities and so. Personally I know it's legal for "me" to use it outside the intended use, as my intention use for the piece of software is to enhance it using multiplayer racing as the enhancement. But that's not in all countries ;) -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Benjamin, Enforcing is a different story, but yes.. it is ILLEGAL to use in N3/NL. The track was released as a DEMO product for Daytona (ISC). It is not technically a papyrus product release. Even if you purchased the program and obtained Daytona the track, its purposeful use was not to be used in N3 or NL. Im not lawyer and don't pretend to be but Im relaying information posted by Sierra/Papy. This is a post from Shawn Wise in the Sierra Message Forum: --------------------------- Shawn Wise Member posted 02-21-2000 08:54 PM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- The moderator has given false information regarding the legal use of the Daytona tracks. Please refer to my post with the subject line "Daytona Clarifiction". It is *not* within the boundries of the license to use these tracks outside of the Demos provided in the Daytona 500 Interactive program guides. We apologize for any confusion this may have caused. Moderators, please close this thread. Thanks, Shawn Wise/Papyrus -- Scott B. Husted "PA-Scott" COO MMMGI ICQ# 4395450 http://www.MMMGI.com http://www.Acrotech.net http://www.Powersims.com http://www.InternetMotorsports.net > On Tue, 22 Feb 2000 15:10:25 GMT, "Scott B. Husted" > >Frank, > >You know better than this. It is NOT legal to use the Daytona track outside > >its intended use in the DEMO. Using it in N3/NL is NOT legal. > Isn't it perfectly legal, if you purchase the NASCAR 3 software, and > then you purchase the demo or whatever that has Daytona, to put it in > YOUR copy of the game for your own personal use.... surely that can't > be illegal - it's impossible to enforce..... That would be like saying > it's against the law to open a file created with Microsoft Works using > Excel. > Now, if you own N3, and you download Daytona off the internet and use > it, yeah, that's technically illegal.... but if you're using two > pieces of software that you rightfully own (or more accurately, are > licensed to use) that just happen to work together and you're not > using it for your own financial gain or distributing it, I don't see > how it's not legal....

On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 00:34:28 GMT, "Scott B. Husted"

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>Benjamin, >Enforcing is a different story, but yes.. it is ILLEGAL to use in N3/NL. >The track was released as a DEMO product for Daytona (ISC). It is not >technically a papyrus product release. >Even if you purchased the program and obtained Daytona the track, its >purposeful use was not to be used in N3 or NL. Im not lawyer and don't >pretend to be but Im relaying information posted by Sierra/Papy.

Wow - that utterly floors me.... I mean that's like saying it's illegal for me to use a butter knife as a screwdriver... (way off comparison, but it really is the same difference to me) I can see not providing any technical support, not answering any questions about how to do it... but saying it's ILLEGAL...? I guess it's due to the "yeah, you bought the software and you're using it, but WE still own it..." nature of licensing... still, that blows me away - I'm not gonna lose sleep over it tho' ~think i'll go rip a tag off a mattress...

> That would be like saying it's against the law to open a file created with Microsoft Works using Excel That's not illegal, just against the Laws of Nature... BB

Again, this is incorrect according to Papy. Read my above post from Shawn Wise in the Papy forum. Scott PA-Scott PowerSims.com -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450