Archive / 2003 / October

RASCAR: Weekly update

218 posts by 31 people · 18 Oct 2003 23:02 UTC - 29 Oct 2003 16:57 UTC

Flame warRASCAR weekly update and plans for a points league

Mitch_A's RASCAR update on the Martinsville race and championship battle led John Simmons to outline his idea for a future league with Cup, truck and Trans Am phases, and to again blame the earlier collapse on two disruptive drivers. Mitch_A responded angrily and the old dispute resurfaced, with arguments over blocking and Eldred's role continuing through a 218-post thread. Jan Verschueren and Tony Rickard pleaded for no repeat of the summer's blowout.

online racing/leaguescommunity/metaNASCAR Racing 2003 Season

Automated summary.

Mitch_A 18 Oct 2003 23:02 UTC#51401

The hunt for the championship continues. Neil holds a 23 point edge over Ginger. Its coming down to the final weeks of the season and neither has so much as blinked. Both were prepared for Mart and I'd expect both will be ready in the following weeks. Mart went very well. Somewhere around 5 cautions. We had 10 guys on Teamspeak which really added to my enjoyment. I'd like to everyone on before the end of the summer season. All around a pretty good Mart. Good job drivers pat yourselves on the back :) NASCAR Racing 2003 Season EXPORTED STANDINGS Track: MARTINSVILLE SPEEDWAY Date: 10/18/03 Session: Practice P # DRIVER TIME 1 96 Neil__C 21.153 2 7 Dick-Trickle 21.162 3 00 seery 21.281 4 27 BOster 21.395 5 5 Ed Solheim 21.418 6 45 Bamadano 21.423 7 19 DaveGF 21.463 8 98 LTB-Racer 21.511 9 1 Mitch_A 21.535 10 311 JurjenvanderLelij 21.575 11 86 86_k_roberts 21.592 12 170 joonjoonli 21.624 13 92 steve whitty 21.685 14 42 bluestringer 21.786 15 0 21.970 16 2 tpaullin 22.009 Weather: Clear, 70 ï¿½F, North 0 mph Session: Qualifying P # DRIVER TIME 1 7 Dick-Trickle 21.132 2 00 seery 21.301 3 96 Neil__C 21.316 4 311 JurjenvanderLelij 21.442 5 1 Mitch_A 21.474 6 19 DaveGF 21.577 7 5 Ed Solheim 21.623 8 98 LTB-Racer 21.713 9 45 Bamadano 21.731 10 42 bluestringer 21.771 11 86 86_k_roberts 22.071 12 2 tpaullin 22.195 13 92 steve whitty 22.285 14 170 joonjoonli 22.676 15 27 BOster -- 16 0 -- Weather: Clear, 70 ï¿½F, North 0 mph Session: Happy Hour P # DRIVER TIME 1 7 Dick-Trickle 21.123 2 96 Neil__C 21.137 3 19 DaveGF 21.310 4 00 seery 21.329 5 86 86_k_roberts 21.367 6 311 JurjenvanderLelij 21.404 7 98 LTB-Racer 21.524 8 5 Ed Solheim 21.583 9 1 Mitch_A 21.584 10 42 bluestringer 21.666 11 170 joonjoonli 21.694 12 45 Bamadano 21.730 13 2 tpaullin 21.807 Weather: Clear, 70 ï¿½F, North 0 mph Session: Race OFFICIAL STANDINGS F S # DRIVER INTERVAL LAPS LED POINTS STATUS 1 1 7 Dick-Trickle 75.289 200 91* 185 Running 2 3 96 Neil__C -5.32 200 80 175 Running 3 5 1 Mitch_A -20.62 200 1 170 Running 4 15 27 BOster -21.02 200 10 165 Running 5 4 311 JurjenvanderLelij -1L 199 0 155 Running 6 8 98 LTB-Racer -2L 198 0 150 Running 7 6 19 DaveGF -3L 197 0 146 Running 8 14 170 joonjoonli -5L 195 0 142 Running 9 2 00 seery -5L 195 0 138 Running 10 10 42 bluestringer -6L 194 0 134 Running 11 13 92 steve whitty -8L 192 0 130 Running 12 12 2 tpaullin -89L 111 0 127 Retired 13 11 86 86_k_roberts -100L 100 18 129 Gearbox 14 7 5 Ed Solheim -108L 92 0 121 Retired 15 9 45 Bamadano -179L 21 0 118 Retired Caution Flags: 6 (30 laps) Lead Changes: 8 (5 drivers) Weather: Clear, 70 ï¿½F, North 0 mph Pitstop Frequency: 1x PENALTIES LAP # INFRACTION PENALTY 27 92 Speeding in pits Drive through pit lane 34 311 Speeding in pits Go to end of longest line 43 00 Passing under yellow Held for 1 seconds 44 00 Speeding in pits Go to end of longest line 98 98 Speeding in pits Go to end of longest line 95 2 Speeding in pits Go to end of longest line Point Standings Results after 33 events Pos Driver Points Interval Bonus Events Wins Poles Laps Led Led% Top 5 Top 10 Prov DNS DNF 1 Neil__C 4,772 -- 90 32 4 5 3,127 375 9.30% 17 24 0 0 10 2 Dick-Trickle 4,749 -23 155 29 5 4 3,144 629 15.60% 23 26 0 0 2 3 LTB-Racer 4,238 -534 40 29 2 1 2,884 104 2.58% 11 20 1 0 7 4 j_verschue_RAS 3,844 -928 5 28 0 0 2,700 7 0.17% 3 17 2 0 7 5 BOster 3,371 -1,401 100 21 4 1 2,243 470 11.66% 17 17 2 0 4 6 DaveGF 3,164 -1,608 25 23 0 1 2,194 35 0.87% 5 13 1 0 8 7 JurjenvanderLelij 3,138 -1,634 10 22 0 0 2,364 7 0.17% 10 14 1 0 2 8 86_k_roberts 3,085 -1,687 10 24 0 0 1,691 19 0.47% 4 7 0 0 14 9 Mitch_A 2,934 -1,838 35 21 2 0 1,648 62 1.54% 8 11 0 0 9 10 s_brunt 2,800 -1,972 15 22 0 0 1,416 15 0.37% 3 9 1 0 12 11 jsimmons 2,604 -2,168 35 19 0 0 1,331 99 2.46% 4 9 0 1 8 12 Ed Solheim 2,430 -2,342 20 18 0 1 1,837 110 2.73% 3 9 2 0 10 13 grubbat 2,371 -2,401 20 16 1 1 1,715 120 2.98% 7 11 1 0 4 14 bamadano 2,337 -2,435 20 18 0 0 1,260 78 1.93% 3 9 0 0 10 15 joonjoonli 2,319 -2,453 10 17 1 0 1,730 24 0.60% 2 11 4 0 7 16 Elrikk 2,153 -2,619 5 18 0 0 1,173 5 0.12% 0 3 12 0 11 17 bluestringer 2,072 -2,700 20 15 0 0 1,651 35 0.87% 3 9 0 0 2 18 epickett 2,034 -2,738 15 16 0 0 1,014 3 0.07% 0 5 0 0 8 19 seery 1,877 -2,895 5 14 1 1 1,317 7 0.17% 1 7 0 0 3 20 bfarmer 1,823 -2,949 5 14 0 0 972 1 0.02% 4 7 3 0 5 21 ian_parker 1,764 -3,008 15 13 1 0 857 25 0.62% 4 7 0 0 7 22 UweSchuerkamp 1,728 -3,044 5 14 0 0 991 5 0.12% 0 5 1 0 7 23 49RAS_ZZBusch 1,717 -3,055 5 15 0 0 484 2 0.05% 0 1 4 0 13 24 mcfadds 1,679 -3,093 0 14 0 0 733 0 0.00% 0 3 2 1 7 25 T_White 1,633 -3,139 60 10 4 8 1,154 479 11.88% 7 8 0 0 3 26 jsterner 1,563 -3,209 5 13 0 0 828 1 0.02% 0 4 0 0 5 27 (LNB)_3 1,516 -3,256 70 9 4 6 1,014 695 17.24% 7 7 0 0 1 28 steve whitty 1,294 -3,478 10 10 0 0 969 14 0.35% 0 4 1 0 1 29 boyk7808 1,250 -3,522 0 10 0 0 451 0 0.00% 1 2 1 0 8 30 frederickson 1,195 -3,577 0 9 0 0 801 0 0.00% 2 5 1 0 2 31 ZZBusch 1,076 -3,696 0 9 0 0 671 0 0.00% 0 2 5 0 4 32 tpaullin 1,030 -3,742 5 8 0 0 502 1 0.02% 0 3 0 0 5 33 yad revilo 977 -3,795 10 7 0 0 538 14 0.35% 3 5 0 0 1 34 DDodge 930 -3,842 5 8 0 0 497 4 0.10% 0 2 0 0 5 35 KnektR 773 -3,999 0 5 0 0 395 0 0.00% 3 5 1 0 0 36 Mike Grandy 742 -4,030 25 5 0 1 311 58 1.44% 2 4 0 0 3 37 Pete_Reston 719 -4,053 10 5 0 0 536 65 1.61% 1 5 0 0 2 38 Punisher6 593 -4,179 0 5 0 0 219 0 0.00% 0 0 0 0 5 39 John Bayes 580 -4,192 20 4 1 1 408 176 4.37% 2 2 0 0 2 40 Coorzman 425 -4,347 0 3 0 0 305 0 0.00% 1 2 0 0 0 41 TMcDaniel 418 -4,354 0 3 0 0 390 0 0.00% 0 2 3 0 0 42 Michael Shouler 405 -4,367 15 3 1 2 135 18 0.45% 1 1 1 0 1 43 Don_Wilshe 402 -4,370 15 3 1 0 288 107 2.65% 1 1 0 0 2 44 Michael Loos 379 -4,393 0 3 0 0 237 0 0.00% 0 1 0 0 2 45 RDressler 373 -4,399 0 3 0 0 161 0 0.00% 0 1 2 0 2 46 studmonkey 339 -4,433 0 3 0 0 198 0 0.00% 0 0 0 0 3 47 MKnutsen 293 -4,479 5 2 0 0 246 22 0.55% 0 2 0 0 1 48 brucek 288 -4,484 0 2 0 0 86 0 0.00% 0 2 0 0 0 49 guido mielekamp 229 -4,543 5 2 0 0 71 7 0.17% 0 0 0 0 2 50 ColinHarris 185 -4,587 10 1 1 0 160 105 2.60% 1 1 0 0 0 51 TNA Loan 170 -4,602 5 1 0 0 159 21 0.52% 1 1 0 0 0 52 D_Burnette 150 -4,622 0 1 0 0 158 0 0.00% 0 1 0 0 0 53 RobertMSmith 139 -4,633 5 1 0 0 125 8 0.20% 0 1 0 0 1 54 plowboy 138 -4,634 0 1 0 0 35 0 0.00% 0 1 1 0 0 55 Marco64 138 -4,634 0 1 0 0 38 0 0.00% 0 1 0 0 1 56 YellowJacketT 124 -4,648 0 1 0 0 105 0 0.00% 0 0 1 0 0 57 DapperDan 115 -4,657 0 1 0 0 28 0 0.00% 0 0 0 0 1 58 Phasor2K3 109 -4,663 0 1 0 0 31 0 0.00% 0 0 0 0 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----

Colin Harris 18 Oct 2003 23:56 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51408

"Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:AEjkb.1641$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (8 lines)

> The hunt for the championship continues. Neil holds a 23 point edge over > Ginger. > OFFICIAL STANDINGS > > F S # DRIVER INTERVAL LAPS LED POINTS STATUS > 1 1 7 Dick-Trickle 75.289 200 91* 185 Running > 2 3 96 Neil__C -5.32 200 80 175 Running

Another 1-2 for FFRL, and in the standings too, well done lads! I taught you both well! :-P www.ffrl.co.uk

Richard "ZZ" Busch 19 Oct 2003 00:30 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51412

How do I get teamspeak working. I keep getting a bad name/password message. Can someone send me what I need to do. Thx -- Richard "ZZ" Busch Member: Screamers Racing League OAO CORS MARA TransAm RASCAR GPL Rank + 17.415 MoGPL Rank + 318.586 N2002 Rank + 7.695 TransAm Rank ??

jon 19 Oct 2003 00:33 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51413

Ok, the whole points thing is really getting addictive. "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:AEjkb.1641$[email hidden]... > The hunt for the championship continues. Neil holds a 23 point edge over > Ginger. Its coming down to the final weeks of the season and neither hasso

Quoted text (132 lines)

> much as blinked. Both were prepared for Mart and I'd expect both will be > ready in the following weeks. > > Mart went very well. Somewhere around 5 cautions. We had 10 guys on > Teamspeak which really added to my enjoyment. I'd like to everyone on > before the end of the summer season. All around a pretty good Mart. Good > job drivers pat yourselves on the back :) > > > NASCAR Racing 2003 Season EXPORTED STANDINGS > Track: MARTINSVILLE SPEEDWAY > Date: 10/18/03 > > > Session: Practice > > P # DRIVER TIME > 1 96 Neil__C 21.153 > 2 7 Dick-Trickle 21.162 > 3 00 seery 21.281 > 4 27 BOster 21.395 > 5 5 Ed Solheim 21.418 > 6 45 Bamadano 21.423 > 7 19 DaveGF 21.463 > 8 98 LTB-Racer 21.511 > 9 1 Mitch_A 21.535 > 10 311 JurjenvanderLelij 21.575 > 11 86 86_k_roberts 21.592 > 12 170 joonjoonli 21.624 > 13 92 steve whitty 21.685 > 14 42 bluestringer 21.786 > 15 0 21.970 > 16 2 tpaullin 22.009 > > > > Weather: Clear, 70 ï¿½F, North 0 mph > > > > Session: Qualifying > > P # DRIVER TIME > 1 7 Dick-Trickle 21.132 > 2 00 seery 21.301 > 3 96 Neil__C 21.316 > 4 311 JurjenvanderLelij 21.442 > 5 1 Mitch_A 21.474 > 6 19 DaveGF 21.577 > 7 5 Ed Solheim 21.623 > 8 98 LTB-Racer 21.713 > 9 45 Bamadano 21.731 > 10 42 bluestringer 21.771 > 11 86 86_k_roberts 22.071 > 12 2 tpaullin 22.195 > 13 92 steve whitty 22.285 > 14 170 joonjoonli 22.676 > 15 27 BOster -- > 16 0 -- > > > > Weather: Clear, 70 ï¿½F, North 0 mph > > > > Session: Happy Hour > > P # DRIVER TIME > 1 7 Dick-Trickle 21.123 > 2 96 Neil__C 21.137 > 3 19 DaveGF 21.310 > 4 00 seery 21.329 > 5 86 86_k_roberts 21.367 > 6 311 JurjenvanderLelij 21.404 > 7 98 LTB-Racer 21.524 > 8 5 Ed Solheim 21.583 > 9 1 Mitch_A 21.584 > 10 42 bluestringer 21.666 > 11 170 joonjoonli 21.694 > 12 45 Bamadano 21.730 > 13 2 tpaullin 21.807 > > > > Weather: Clear, 70 ï¿½F, North 0 mph > > > > Session: Race > OFFICIAL STANDINGS > > F S # DRIVER INTERVAL LAPS LED POINTS STATUS > 1 1 7 Dick-Trickle 75.289 200 91* 185 Running > 2 3 96 Neil__C -5.32 200 80 175 Running > 3 5 1 Mitch_A -20.62 200 1 170 Running > 4 15 27 BOster -21.02 200 10 165 Running > 5 4 311 JurjenvanderLelij -1L 199 0 155 Running > 6 8 98 LTB-Racer -2L 198 0 150 Running > 7 6 19 DaveGF -3L 197 0 146 Running > 8 14 170 joonjoonli -5L 195 0 142 Running > 9 2 00 seery -5L 195 0 138 Running > 10 10 42 bluestringer -6L 194 0 134 Running > 11 13 92 steve whitty -8L 192 0 130 Running > 12 12 2 tpaullin -89L 111 0 127 Retired > 13 11 86 86_k_roberts -100L 100 18 129 Gearbox > 14 7 5 Ed Solheim -108L 92 0 121 Retired > 15 9 45 Bamadano -179L 21 0 118 Retired > > > > Caution Flags: 6 (30 laps) > Lead Changes: 8 (5 drivers) > Weather: Clear, 70 ï¿½F, North 0 mph > Pitstop Frequency: 1x > > > PENALTIES > LAP # INFRACTION PENALTY > 27 92 Speeding in pits Drive through pit lane > 34 311 Speeding in pits Go to end of longest line > 43 00 Passing under yellow Held for 1 seconds > 44 00 Speeding in pits Go to end of longest line > 98 98 Speeding in pits Go to end of longest line > 95 2 Speeding in pits Go to end of longest line > > > > > Point Standings > Results after 33 events > Pos Driver Points Interval Bonus Events Wins Poles Laps Led Led% Top

Quoted text (63 lines)

> Top 10 Prov DNS DNF > 1 Neil__C 4,772 -- 90 32 4 5 3,127 375 9.30% 17 24 0 0 10 > 2 Dick-Trickle 4,749 -23 155 29 5 4 3,144 629 15.60% 23 26 0 0 2 > 3 LTB-Racer 4,238 -534 40 29 2 1 2,884 104 2.58% 11 20 1 0 7 > 4 j_verschue_RAS 3,844 -928 5 28 0 0 2,700 7 0.17% 3 17 2 0 7 > 5 BOster 3,371 -1,401 100 21 4 1 2,243 470 11.66% 17 17 2 0 4 > 6 DaveGF 3,164 -1,608 25 23 0 1 2,194 35 0.87% 5 13 1 0 8 > 7 JurjenvanderLelij 3,138 -1,634 10 22 0 0 2,364 7 0.17% 10 14 1 0 2 > 8 86_k_roberts 3,085 -1,687 10 24 0 0 1,691 19 0.47% 4 7 0 0 14 > 9 Mitch_A 2,934 -1,838 35 21 2 0 1,648 62 1.54% 8 11 0 0 9 > 10 s_brunt 2,800 -1,972 15 22 0 0 1,416 15 0.37% 3 9 1 0 12 > 11 jsimmons 2,604 -2,168 35 19 0 0 1,331 99 2.46% 4 9 0 1 8 > 12 Ed Solheim 2,430 -2,342 20 18 0 1 1,837 110 2.73% 3 9 2 0 10 > 13 grubbat 2,371 -2,401 20 16 1 1 1,715 120 2.98% 7 11 1 0 4 > 14 bamadano 2,337 -2,435 20 18 0 0 1,260 78 1.93% 3 9 0 0 10 > 15 joonjoonli 2,319 -2,453 10 17 1 0 1,730 24 0.60% 2 11 4 0 7 > 16 Elrikk 2,153 -2,619 5 18 0 0 1,173 5 0.12% 0 3 12 0 11 > 17 bluestringer 2,072 -2,700 20 15 0 0 1,651 35 0.87% 3 9 0 0 2 > 18 epickett 2,034 -2,738 15 16 0 0 1,014 3 0.07% 0 5 0 0 8 > 19 seery 1,877 -2,895 5 14 1 1 1,317 7 0.17% 1 7 0 0 3 > 20 bfarmer 1,823 -2,949 5 14 0 0 972 1 0.02% 4 7 3 0 5 > 21 ian_parker 1,764 -3,008 15 13 1 0 857 25 0.62% 4 7 0 0 7 > 22 UweSchuerkamp 1,728 -3,044 5 14 0 0 991 5 0.12% 0 5 1 0 7 > 23 49RAS_ZZBusch 1,717 -3,055 5 15 0 0 484 2 0.05% 0 1 4 0 13 > 24 mcfadds 1,679 -3,093 0 14 0 0 733 0 0.00% 0 3 2 1 7 > 25 T_White 1,633 -3,139 60 10 4 8 1,154 479 11.88% 7 8 0 0 3 > 26 jsterner 1,563 -3,209 5 13 0 0 828 1 0.02% 0 4 0 0 5 > 27 (LNB)_3 1,516 -3,256 70 9 4 6 1,014 695 17.24% 7 7 0 0 1 > 28 steve whitty 1,294 -3,478 10 10 0 0 969 14 0.35% 0 4 1 0 1 > 29 boyk7808 1,250 -3,522 0 10 0 0 451 0 0.00% 1 2 1 0 8 > 30 frederickson 1,195 -3,577 0 9 0 0 801 0 0.00% 2 5 1 0 2 > 31 ZZBusch 1,076 -3,696 0 9 0 0 671 0 0.00% 0 2 5 0 4 > 32 tpaullin 1,030 -3,742 5 8 0 0 502 1 0.02% 0 3 0 0 5 > 33 yad revilo 977 -3,795 10 7 0 0 538 14 0.35% 3 5 0 0 1 > 34 DDodge 930 -3,842 5 8 0 0 497 4 0.10% 0 2 0 0 5 > 35 KnektR 773 -3,999 0 5 0 0 395 0 0.00% 3 5 1 0 0 > 36 Mike Grandy 742 -4,030 25 5 0 1 311 58 1.44% 2 4 0 0 3 > 37 Pete_Reston 719 -4,053 10 5 0 0 536 65 1.61% 1 5 0 0 2 > 38 Punisher6 593 -4,179 0 5 0 0 219 0 0.00% 0 0 0 0 5 > 39 John Bayes 580 -4,192 20 4 1 1 408 176 4.37% 2 2 0 0 2 > 40 Coorzman 425 -4,347 0 3 0 0 305 0 0.00% 1 2 0 0 0 > 41 TMcDaniel 418 -4,354 0 3 0 0 390 0 0.00% 0 2 3 0 0 > 42 Michael Shouler 405 -4,367 15 3 1 2 135 18 0.45% 1 1 1 0 1 > 43 Don_Wilshe 402 -4,370 15 3 1 0 288 107 2.65% 1 1 0 0 2 > 44 Michael Loos 379 -4,393 0 3 0 0 237 0 0.00% 0 1 0 0 2 > 45 RDressler 373 -4,399 0 3 0 0 161 0 0.00% 0 1 2 0 2 > 46 studmonkey 339 -4,433 0 3 0 0 198 0 0.00% 0 0 0 0 3 > 47 MKnutsen 293 -4,479 5 2 0 0 246 22 0.55% 0 2 0 0 1 > 48 brucek 288 -4,484 0 2 0 0 86 0 0.00% 0 2 0 0 0 > 49 guido mielekamp 229 -4,543 5 2 0 0 71 7 0.17% 0 0 0 0 2 > 50 ColinHarris 185 -4,587 10 1 1 0 160 105 2.60% 1 1 0 0 0 > 51 TNA Loan 170 -4,602 5 1 0 0 159 21 0.52% 1 1 0 0 0 > 52 D_Burnette 150 -4,622 0 1 0 0 158 0 0.00% 0 1 0 0 0 > 53 RobertMSmith 139 -4,633 5 1 0 0 125 8 0.20% 0 1 0 0 1 > 54 plowboy 138 -4,634 0 1 0 0 35 0 0.00% 0 1 1 0 0 > 55 Marco64 138 -4,634 0 1 0 0 38 0 0.00% 0 1 0 0 1 > 56 YellowJacketT 124 -4,648 0 1 0 0 105 0 0.00% 0 0 1 0 0 > 57 DapperDan 115 -4,657 0 1 0 0 28 0 0.00% 0 0 0 0 1 > 58 Phasor2K3 109 -4,663 0 1 0 0 31 0 0.00% 0 0 0 0 1 > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- > ---- > >

Kyle Roberts 19 Oct 2003 00:41 UTC↳ reply to jon #51414

"jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OZkkb.19984$[email hidden]... > Ok, the whole points thing is really getting addictive. I was thinking of a different word myself.

Richard "ZZ" Busch 19 Oct 2003 01:54 UTC↳ reply to Kyle Roberts #51416

"jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OZkkb.19984$[email hidden]... > Ok, the whole points thing is really getting addictive. I was thinking of a different word myself. ------------------ Isn't that the whole reason why the takeover? Make it a league? -- Richard "ZZ" Busch Member: Screamers Racing League OAO CORS MARA TransAm RASCAR GPL Rank + 17.415 MoGPL Rank + 318.586 N2002 Rank + 7.695 TransAm Rank ??

grub 19 Oct 2003 02:45 UTC↳ reply to Richard "ZZ" Busch #51420

Nice Bait ZZ. I thought that I was good. I guess you never know who you can learn from. grub "ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:c8mkb.7922$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (27 lines)

> "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:OZkkb.19984$[email hidden]... > > Ok, the whole points thing is really getting addictive. > > I was thinking of a different word myself. > ------------------ > Isn't that the whole reason why the takeover? Make it a league? > > > > -- > Richard "ZZ" Busch > > Member: > Screamers Racing League > OAO > CORS > MARA TransAm > RASCAR > GPL Rank + 17.415 > MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > N2002 Rank + 7.695 > TransAm Rank ?? > > > >

Larry 19 Oct 2003 04:19 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51424

If there was ever a replay to watch from someone elses car, this is the one. Either Neil or Gingers will do :) I HAVE to figure out what line these guys used because it was STRONG! Nice race everyone. Teamspeak sure adds a lot to it! -Larry "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:AEjkb.1641$[email hidden]... > The hunt for the championship continues. Neil holds a 23 point edge over > Ginger. Its coming down to the final weeks of the season and neither hasso

Quoted text (132 lines)

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-- > ---- > >

Larry 19 Oct 2003 04:21 UTC↳ reply to Richard "ZZ" Busch #51425

Yeah, it took me an hour to get past this :) Just log in as ANONYMOUS (click the button for this). You know the password. It will work then. I think since there are no username limitations, having ANY username in there for the login is what causes the problem. Using anonymous gets rid of the issue. -Larry "ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:IVkkb.19960$[email hidden]... > How do I get teamspeak working. I keep getting a bad name/passwordmessage.

Quoted text (21 lines)

> Can someone send me what I need to do. > > Thx > > -- > Richard "ZZ" Busch > > Member: > Screamers Racing League > OAO > CORS > MARA TransAm > RASCAR > GPL Rank + 17.415 > MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > N2002 Rank + 7.695 > TransAm Rank ?? > > > >

Larry 19 Oct 2003 04:21 UTC↳ reply to Richard "ZZ" Busch #51426

You know, I really don't care. I like it :) -Larry "ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:c8mkb.7922$[email hidden]...

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Neil Charlton 19 Oct 2003 10:39 UTC↳ reply to Colin Harris #51435

"Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Uqkkb.978$[email hidden]... > > "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:AEjkb.1641$[email hidden]... > > The hunt for the championship continues. Neil holds a 23 point edgeover

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > Ginger. > > > OFFICIAL STANDINGS > > > > F S # DRIVER INTERVAL LAPS LED POINTS STATUS > > 1 1 7 Dick-Trickle 75.289 200 91* 185 Running > > 2 3 96 Neil__C -5.32 200 80 175 Running > > Another 1-2 for FFRL, and in the standings too, well done lads! I taught

you > both well! :-P Thanks dad ;)

John Simmons 19 Oct 2003 11:18 UTC↳ reply to Richard "ZZ" Busch #51437

In article <c8mkb.7922$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted text (7 lines)

No. That happened because two people didn't like the fact that the rules were going to be rigidly enforced, so instead of just quitting, they decided to disrupt the whole operation. ---------- Eldred and I had started talking about making RASCAR a points league for the 2004 season weeks before the coup started. The reason we didn't do it this year was because the season was more than half over, and we didn't want to disrupt the reason people joined for *this* season. Besides, it takes a good bit of effort and time to put everything in place for a formal points league, and we thought the season would have just a few races left before we got all our shit in one sock.

Richard "ZZ" Busch 19 Oct 2003 12:07 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #51290

Eldred and I had started talking about making RASCAR a points league for the 2004 season weeks before the coup started. The reason we didn't do it this year was because the season was more than half over, and we didn't want to disrupt the reason people joined for *this* season. Besides, it takes a good bit of effort and time to put everything in place for a formal points league, and we thought the season would have just a few races left before we got all our shit in one sock. -------------------- If you guys decide to do a league you know I'm in. I kinda hate pullin over for guys I know will whine if I don't move fast enough for them. -- Richard "ZZ" Busch ps: Anybody up for a TRASCAR?

Goy Larsen 19 Oct 2003 14:34 UTC↳ reply to Richard "ZZ" Busch #51297

ZZ wrote:

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > Eldred and I had started talking about making RASCAR a points league > for the 2004 season weeks before the coup started. The reason we > didn't do it this year was because the season was more than half > over, and we didn't want to disrupt the reason people joined for > *this* season. Besides, it takes a good bit of effort and time to > put everything in place for a formal points league, and we thought > the season would have just a few races left before we got all our > shit in one sock. > -------------------- > If you guys decide to do a league you know I'm in. I kinda hate pullin over > for guys I know will whine if I don't move fast enough for them.

I'd join you guys too, only I don't care for oval racing :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

John Simmons 19 Oct 2003 16:28 UTC↳ reply to Goy Larsen #51301

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > > ZZ wrote: > > > > Eldred and I had started talking about making RASCAR a points league > > for the 2004 season weeks before the coup started. The reason we > > didn't do it this year was because the season was more than half > > over, and we didn't want to disrupt the reason people joined for > > *this* season. Besides, it takes a good bit of effort and time to > > put everything in place for a formal points league, and we thought > > the season would have just a few races left before we got all our > > shit in one sock. > > -------------------- > > If you guys decide to do a league you know I'm in. I kinda hate pullin over > > for guys I know will whine if I don't move fast enough for them. > > I'd join you guys too, only I don't care for oval racing :-) > >

I envision a (future) league that runs a 39-week season using three different series (roughly described below): Cup (10 oval, 3 roadies) Trucks (10 oval, 3 roadies) Trans am (13 roadies) That arrangement would provide a pretty even allotment of ovals and road courses. The season would be broken up into three distinct parts (for each series) with a week off between each. The first section would be cup, followed by cts and finally trans am. Each section would have it's own champion, but points would be carried forward to the next section, working towards an overall champion. Open setups, visual aids ON, driving aids OFF, cautions on (except for roadies), moderate damage, racing back to the caution is allowed when prudent/safe, no provisional starts or points would be implemented (if you miss a race, tough cookies). Active sharing of setup hints/help would be encouraged. There would be no server restarts for people who miss the start, and penalties will include both points deductions and next-race starting grid black flags. "Stupid racing move" enumerations would be limited to pretty much one-sided comments provided by the league admin(s), and only league admins would publish race reviews. For the most part, the rules would be decided on by the admins, and while member comment will be invited, expect a hard sell if you want to see anything changed without precedent beefed up at least one damn good reason. In short, once it's on the official rules page, it should be considered all but cast in stone.

jon 19 Oct 2003 16:52 UTC↳ reply to Richard "ZZ" Busch #51308

I was in the middle of a non-voluntary layoff due to computer and isp problems when the change of command came along, so I can't really say too much about all that. I do know that I am enjoying RASCAR a lot more now than then. "ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:c8mkb.7922$[email hidden]...

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Mitch_A 19 Oct 2003 17:08 UTC↳ reply to Richard "ZZ" Busch #51310

No one EVER said you have to pull over for anyone ZZ. If youre faster then go, if not then get the F&%K outta the way. Really not any sense in fighting so hard you both end up wrecked, which is where we were before. A little respect for fellow competitors goes much further and the past few races prove that. Without sounding too Simmonsesque, if you don't like the way RASCAR is now ZZ then don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Basically you just called me or others in RASCAR whiners?? This kinda thread sure isnt helping the situation buddy. Personally I think the racing has improved drastically. 7-8 yellows in the past 3 races vs 10-12 per race which is what started all the BS. If you want to run yellowfests then go race sierra and quit crying about RASCAR. Mitch > -------------------- > If you guys decide to do a league you know I'm in. I kinda hate pullinover

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> for guys I know will whine if I don't move fast enough for them. > > > -- > Richard "ZZ" Busch > > ps: Anybody up for a TRASCAR? > > > >

jon 19 Oct 2003 17:20 UTC↳ reply to Larry #51311

I didn't much care one way or the other at first, but seeing how close I am to Bama Dan is enough to ensure that I spend my free time this week practicing. Didn't this week because I was initially gonna skip Marty, as I have NEVER had an enjoyable race there, mainly due to the craziness that allways seemed to follow a caution. Glad to see that mess was straightened out. "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Ibokb.91987$a16.33976@lakeread01...

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> You know, I really don't care. I like it :) > > -Larry > > "ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:c8mkb.7922$[email hidden]... > > "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:OZkkb.19984$[email hidden]... > > > Ok, the whole points thing is really getting addictive. > > > > I was thinking of a different word myself. > > ------------------ > > Isn't that the whole reason why the takeover? Make it a league? > > > > > > > > -- > > Richard "ZZ" Busch > > > > Member: > > Screamers Racing League > > OAO > > CORS > > MARA TransAm > > RASCAR > > GPL Rank + 17.415 > > MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > > N2002 Rank + 7.695 > > TransAm Rank ?? > > > > > > > > > >

Mitch_A 19 Oct 2003 17:34 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #51313

Youre obviously still on some meds Simmons. It happened because YOU decided RASCAR was going to be run your way or the highway and used your usurped power in a way that was unacceptable to most drivers, yet you still refused to listen to anyone (A dictator) and implemented a bunch of rules that didnt help the racing in the least but made Johnny boy feel like a big man. After you decided David and I were no longer members (for questionable violations at best) Eldred realized you are totally out of control so he pulled the plug. At that point David and I decided we would pay a monthly fee to keep RASCAR alive which we've done. Just the facts.... Mitch "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MPG.19fc2f513823be7c989ac7@news->

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> No. That happened because two people didn't like the fact that the > rules were going to be rigidly enforced, so instead of just quitting, > they decided to disrupt the whole operation. > > ---------- > > Eldred and I had started talking about making RASCAR a points league > for the 2004 season weeks before the coup started. The reason we > didn't do it this year was because the season was more than half > over, and we didn't want to disrupt the reason people joined for > *this* season. Besides, it takes a good bit of effort and time to > put everything in place for a formal points league, and we thought > the season would have just a few races left before we got all our > shit in one sock. > >

Jan Verschueren 19 Oct 2003 18:01 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51314

"Mitch_A" wrote... > <snip> Eeek! -Can we not have another public blowout, plz? Jan. =---

jon 19 Oct 2003 18:19 UTC↳ reply to Jan Verschueren #51320

Jan you little devil, you musta read my mind... especially after Marty went so well. Like I said, this stands out as the only Martinsville race in my memory that wasn't a total clusterfuck. Another thing comes to mind. I don't remember who it was behind me when it happened, but someone was right on my ass at one point when I gave it too much coming out of a turn and had the rear end start to come around. Had to stomp my brake a couple times to keep the correct view of the track in my rear view mirror, wound up slowing WAY down. I thought for sure I was gonna get rear ended there, and if I had been, it would have been my fault. The car behind me slowed down to my speed, and didn't even try to pass until after I was back in control and on the throttle. Whoever you are, I am impressed. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jkAkb.89868$[email hidden]...

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> "Mitch_A" wrote... > > <snip> > > Eeek! -Can we not have another public blowout, plz? > > Jan. > =--- > >

Tony Rickard 19 Oct 2003 18:24 UTC↳ reply to Jan Verschueren #51321

"Jan Verschueren" wrote: > "Mitch_A" wrote... > > <snip> > > Eeek! -Can we not have another public blowout, plz? Yep, this is only going one way guys. A regurgitation of the facts as each of you see them which will get wider apart. Feel like we've been there, done that...

Tim Paullin 19 Oct 2003 18:57 UTC↳ reply to jon #51326

"jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6BAkb.10523$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (7 lines)

> Jan you little devil, you musta read my mind... > especially after Marty went so well. Like I said, this stands out as the > only Martinsville race in my memory that wasn't a total clusterfuck. > > Another thing comes to mind. I don't remember who it was behind me when it > happened, but someone was right on my ass at one point when I gave it too > much coming out of a turn and had the rear end start to come around. Had

to > stomp my brake a couple times to keep the correct view of the track in my > rear view mirror, wound up slowing WAY down. I thought for sure I wasgonna > get rear ended there, and if I had been, it would have been my fault. > The car behind me slowed down to my speed, and didn't even try to passuntil > after I was back in control and on the throttle. Whoever you are, I am > impressed. IIRC, I was 2 cars behind you when that happened. There was alot of give and take in both races. Hats off to all! I was at least competitive in the practice race but the feature everyone was WAY faster than me. I felt I was in the way so I retired. Still great fun. Tim

Richard "ZZ" Busch 19 Oct 2003 19:36 UTC↳ reply to Jan Verschueren #51328

"Mitch_A" wrote... > <snip> Eeek! -Can we not have another public blowout, plz? Jan. =--- I guess no one here has ever gone fishing. ;-) I just like to rattle cages once in a while. and of course I hate being PC. (politically correct) -- Richard "ZZ" Busch Member: Screamers Racing League OAO CORS MARA TransAm RASCAR GPL Rank + 17.415 MoGPL Rank + 318.586 N2002 Rank + 7.695 TransAm Rank ?? http://www.ZZBusch.com

EldredP 19 Oct 2003 20:52 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51333

In article <eyzkb.336$[email hidden]>, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> writes: >No one EVER said you have to pull over for anyone ZZ. If youre faster then >go, if not then get the F&%K outta the way. Really not any sense in >fighting so hard you both end up wrecked, which is where we were before. A >little respect for fellow competitors goes much further and the past few >races prove that. So tell me - there was no respect for fellow competitors before? You still have the same drivers, and even snagged some NEW faces(wider skill level difference)... Not flaming, I'd just like to know what's so different now that makes everyone all touchy-feely and produces 5 or less cautions per race... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Bamadano 19 Oct 2003 21:07 UTC↳ reply to jon #51239

>I didn't much care one way or the other at first, but seeing how close I am >to Bama Dan is enough to ensure that I spend my free time this week >practicing. LOL. The spot is yours Jon. I have to work this Saturday and possibly the next three. Or if you prefer since I'm in Alabama..this Sat in statewide dance with a goat week :) Dan

jon 19 Oct 2003 21:08 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #51338

> "Stupid racing move" enumerations would be limited to pretty much > one-sided comments provided by the league admin(s), and only league > admins would publish race reviews. oh jesus....

Goy Larsen 19 Oct 2003 21:19 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #51240

EldredP wrote: > > So tell me - there was no respect for fellow competitors before? You still > have the same drivers, and even snagged some NEW faces(wider skill level > difference)... Not flaming, I'd just like to know what's so different now that > makes everyone all touchy-feely and produces 5 or less cautions per race... They only have 5 drivers starting the race ? :-) Sorry, but it sounded more dramatic than 15 :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

jon 19 Oct 2003 21:29 UTC↳ reply to Bamadano #51241

"Bamadano" <[email hidden]> wrote > LOL. The spot is yours Jon. I have to work this Saturday and possibly thenext > three. Or if you prefer since I'm in Alabama..this Sat in statewide dancewith > a goat week :) > Dan Well that just kills it for me. Please understand, I didn't really want to take that cheap crack at Alabama a few weeks ago, it's just that I have lived all my life in Atlanta, and pretty much felt honor bound to say something like that. :)

Richard "ZZ" Busch 19 Oct 2003 22:07 UTC↳ reply to Bamadano #51243

this Sat in statewide dance with a goat week :) Dan ------------------------------ OK , I'm not going there, but it does sound kinky in a Deliverance sort of way. ;-) -- Richard "ZZ" Busch Member: Screamers Racing League OAO CORS MARA TransAm RASCAR GPL Rank + 17.415 MoGPL Rank + 318.586 N2002 Rank + 7.695 TransAm Rank ??

spark 20 Oct 2003 00:05 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51247

That's rich coming from the same guy who rearends me then uses his favorite "F&%K" words on me multiple times after he takes us both out of the race (at Kansas). I think you are the guy ZZ is talking about. "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote > No one EVER said you have to pull over for anyone ZZ. If youre fasterthen > go, if not then get the F&%K outta the way. > > Without sounding too Simmonsesque, if you don't like the way RASCAR is now > ZZ then don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Basicallyyou > just called me or others in RASCAR whiners?? This kinda thread sure isnt > helping the situation buddy. >

jason moyer 20 Oct 2003 00:50 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51255

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:34:28 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (10 lines)

>Youre obviously still on some meds Simmons. > >It happened because YOU decided RASCAR was going to be run your way or the >highway and used your usurped power in a way that was unacceptable to most >drivers, yet you still refused to listen to anyone (A dictator) and >implemented a bunch of rules that didnt help the racing in the least but >made Johnny boy feel like a big man. After you decided David and I were no >longer members (for questionable violations at best) Eldred realized you are >totally out of control so he pulled the plug. At that point David and I >decided we would pay a monthly fee to keep RASCAR alive which we've done.

Speaking of RASCAR, if it does in fact become a points league with rules and such, where can I sign up for the next season? Jason

Bamadano 20 Oct 2003 01:04 UTC↳ reply to Richard "ZZ" Busch #51257

>OK , I'm not going there, but it does sound kinky in a Deliverance sort of >way. ;-) Sorry ZZ...Deliverance was filmed in and set in Georgia! Uhh..Jon?? :) <vbg> Dan

grub 20 Oct 2003 01:20 UTC↳ reply to Goy Larsen #51258

Awl, comeon Goy. Join the fun. Its ok if you are no good at that oval racing stuff. Just think, you will make someone happy because they finished better than you . That might be the special christmas present they have been waiting for.Whatya say? My guess is that you are indeed better at it than you are lettin on. :) grub > > -------------------- > > If you guys decide to do a league you know I'm in. I kinda hate pullinover

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> > for guys I know will whine if I don't move fast enough for them. > > I'd join you guys too, only I don't care for oval racing :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "goyl at nettx dot no" > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

grub 20 Oct 2003 01:22 UTC↳ reply to Jan Verschueren #51259

I'd like to second that motion. All those in favor? grub "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jkAkb.89868$[email hidden]...

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> "Mitch_A" wrote... > > <snip> > > Eeek! -Can we not have another public blowout, plz? > > Jan. > =--- > >

grub 20 Oct 2003 01:31 UTC↳ reply to Richard "ZZ" Busch #51262

I got it ZZ from my earlier post and thought that I had de-fussed it. Like I said before, it was a good bait mind you. Marty is a difficult track to race, because track position is so important and the slow guys can maintain that track position if they want to. You have to be a lot faster to get around the slow guys, and you end up using all your stuff doing it. Junior and Newman was a classic example. Junior's car was soo much faster than Newmans, but the line around that track is just so big and it took a long time to get around. Newman didn't have a problem with the deal because he was racing. I usually let the faster guy go when I am tired of him bugging me staying on my bumper, but at marty's, I haven't raced there enough to develop a 'policy' because of the track position thing. I do know that it is very frustrating to have to drive around behind a slower car lap after lap knowing that you are faster, but can't get the line to pull off the pass. Been there done that. See yall at Atlanta, my home track. (no pun intended) grub "ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8IBkb.11680$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (31 lines)

> "Mitch_A" wrote... > > <snip> > > Eeek! -Can we not have another public blowout, plz? > > Jan. > =--- > > I guess no one here has ever gone fishing. ;-) > I just like to rattle cages once in a while. > and of course I hate being PC. (politically correct) > > > -- > Richard "ZZ" Busch > > Member: > Screamers Racing League > OAO > CORS > MARA TransAm > RASCAR > GPL Rank + 17.415 > MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > N2002 Rank + 7.695 > TransAm Rank ?? > > > http://www.ZZBusch.com > >

jon 20 Oct 2003 01:41 UTC↳ reply to Bamadano #51261

lol "Bamadano" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >OK , I'm not going there, but it does sound kinky in a Deliverance sortof > >way. ;-) > > Sorry ZZ...Deliverance was filmed in and set in Georgia! Uhh..Jon?? :)<vbg> > Dan

grub 20 Oct 2003 01:54 UTC↳ reply to Bamadano #51386

Dancing with Goats? Are you a farmer? Seriously, whats up with the goats? Barnyard fun? grub :) "Bamadano" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >I didn't much care one way or the other at first, but seeing how close Iam > >to Bama Dan is enough to ensure that I spend my free time this week > >practicing. > > LOL. The spot is yours Jon. I have to work this Saturday and possibly thenext > three. Or if you prefer since I'm in Alabama..this Sat in statewide dancewith > a goat week :) > Dan

Mitch_A 20 Oct 2003 03:02 UTC↳ reply to spark #51271

If thats you brunt? then you were BLOCKING me and everyone else at Kansas. I had just watched you do it to Wilshe then I come up on you WAY faster cause I had new rubber and you came right down onto me. I never once moved up from the low lane and was already slowing as much as I could as we both had our own lane and I was moving forward. You tried to BLOCK me by making a radical lane change and RUINED both our day for no reason at all. Exactly what we've been preaching against. I made my intentions clear all the way down the BS. If you can read my mind or #### on a chat message then youre pretty good. Guessing makes you look foolish. Mitch "spark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kFFkb.34302$[email hidden]... > That's rich coming from the same guy who rearends me then uses hisfavorite > "F&%K" words on me multiple times after he takes us both out of the race(at > Kansas). I think you are the guy ZZ is talking about. > > "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote > > No one EVER said you have to pull over for anyone ZZ. If youre faster > then

Mitch_A 20 Oct 2003 03:15 UTC↳ reply to jason moyer #51274

Yeah Jason post a thread on the RSC forum http://forum.racesimcentral.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=142. Were you on the invite list at anytime since last year Jason? If not then we need your Sierra ID. We're currently looking for a carset manager so till then just attach your car to your post. Next season will be winter league but no decisions have been made on type/length/dmg/etc. Trucks or TA both jump out at me but we'll see. Next regular season starts in March so we have plenty of time to get your name. Mitch "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:34:28 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> > > Speaking of RASCAR, if it does in fact become a points league with > rules and such, where can I sign up for the next season? > > Jason

Larry 20 Oct 2003 04:01 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #51280

I'd run in all three. I just wanna race (tm) :) -Larry "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (15 lines)

> In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > > > > > > ZZ wrote: > > > > > > Eldred and I had started talking about making RASCAR a points league > > > for the 2004 season weeks before the coup started. The reason we > > > didn't do it this year was because the season was more than half > > > over, and we didn't want to disrupt the reason people joined for > > > *this* season. Besides, it takes a good bit of effort and time to > > > put everything in place for a formal points league, and we thought > > > the season would have just a few races left before we got all our > > > shit in one sock. > > > -------------------- > > > If you guys decide to do a league you know I'm in. I kinda hate pullin

over

Quoted text (43 lines)

> > > for guys I know will whine if I don't move fast enough for them. > > > > I'd join you guys too, only I don't care for oval racing :-) > > > > > > I envision a (future) league that runs a 39-week season using three > different series (roughly described below): > > Cup (10 oval, 3 roadies) > Trucks (10 oval, 3 roadies) > Trans am (13 roadies) > > That arrangement would provide a pretty even allotment of ovals and > road courses. > > The season would be broken up into three distinct parts (for each > series) with a week off between each. The first section would be > cup, followed by cts and finally trans am. Each section would have > it's own champion, but points would be carried forward to the next > section, working towards an overall champion. > > Open setups, visual aids ON, driving aids OFF, cautions on (except > for roadies), moderate damage, racing back to the caution is allowed > when prudent/safe, no provisional starts or points would be > implemented (if you miss a race, tough cookies). > > Active sharing of setup hints/help would be encouraged. > > There would be no server restarts for people who miss the start, and > penalties will include both points deductions and next-race starting > grid black flags. > > "Stupid racing move" enumerations would be limited to pretty much > one-sided comments provided by the league admin(s), and only league > admins would publish race reviews. > > For the most part, the rules would be decided on by the admins, and > while member comment will be invited, expect a hard sell if you want > to see anything changed without precedent beefed up at least one damn > good reason. In short, once it's on the official rules page, it > should be considered all but cast in stone. >

Larry 20 Oct 2003 04:05 UTC↳ reply to grub #51281

Jr. showed INCREDIBLE restraint today. I don't know that even I could be that patient :) You could tell during his post-race interview he had something to say, but kept his lip buttoned. -Larry "grub" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I got it ZZ from my earlier post and thought that I had de-fussed it. LikeI > said before, it was a good bait mind you. Marty is a difficult track to > race, because track position is so important and the slow guys canmaintain

Quoted text (10 lines)

> that track position if they want to. You have to be a lot faster to get > around the slow guys, and you end up using all your stuff doing it. Junior > and Newman was a classic example. Junior's car was soo much faster than > Newmans, but the line around that track is just so big and it took a long > time to get around. Newman didn't have a problem with the deal because he > was racing. I usually let the faster guy go when I am tired of him bugging > me staying on my bumper, but at marty's, I haven't raced there enough to > develop a 'policy' because of the track position thing. > I do know that it is very frustrating to have to drive around behind a > slower car lap after lap knowing that you are faster, but can't get the

line

Quoted text (42 lines)

> to pull off the pass. Been there done that. > > See yall at Atlanta, my home track. (no pun intended) > > grub > > > "ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8IBkb.11680$[email hidden]... > > "Mitch_A" wrote... > > > <snip> > > > > Eeek! -Can we not have another public blowout, plz? > > > > Jan. > > =--- > > > > I guess no one here has ever gone fishing. ;-) > > I just like to rattle cages once in a while. > > and of course I hate being PC. (politically correct) > > > > > > -- > > Richard "ZZ" Busch > > > > Member: > > Screamers Racing League > > OAO > > CORS > > MARA TransAm > > RASCAR > > GPL Rank + 17.415 > > MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > > N2002 Rank + 7.695 > > TransAm Rank ?? > > > > > > http://www.ZZBusch.com > > > > > >

Kyle Roberts 20 Oct 2003 04:26 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #51287

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (17 lines)

> In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > I envision a (future) league that runs a 39-week season using three > different series (roughly described below): > > Cup (10 oval, 3 roadies) > Trucks (10 oval, 3 roadies) > Trans am (13 roadies) > > That arrangement would provide a pretty even allotment of ovals and > road courses. > > The season would be broken up into three distinct parts (for each > series) with a week off between each. The first section would be > cup, followed by cts and finally trans am. Each section would have > it's own champion, but points would be carried forward to the next > section, working towards an overall champion.

I would love to race that format. Kyle

jason moyer 20 Oct 2003 04:43 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51339

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:15:36 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (8 lines)

>Yeah Jason post a thread on the RSC forum >http://forum.racesimcentral.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=142. Were you >on the invite list at anytime since last year Jason? If not then we need >your Sierra ID. We're currently looking for a carset manager so till then >just attach your car to your post. Next season will be winter league but >no decisions have been made on type/length/dmg/etc. Trucks or TA both jump >out at me but we'll see. Next regular season starts in March so we have >plenty of time to get your name.

I'd definitely be interested in a road course league with PTA or short tracks with CTS/BGN, but I just left my job and thus finally have free time to participate in rascar again. I'll post something on RSC when I get a chance. Jason

Dave Henrie 20 Oct 2003 06:02 UTC↳ reply to jason moyer #51345

[email hidden] (jason moyer) wrote in news:[email hidden]: > I'd definitely be interested in a road course league with PTA or short > tracks with CTS/BGN, but I just left my job and thus finally have free > time to participate in rascar again. I'll post something on RSC when > I get a chance. > > Jason Once the Bullrun 1000 is over, and they produce the promised Viper, I'm sure the TPTCC from the uspits will be sponsoring a TA leage. dave henrie

John Simmons 20 Oct 2003 09:46 UTC↳ reply to jason moyer #51358

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:34:28 GMT, "Mitch_A" wrote: >Youre obviously still on some meds Simmons. Whatever, Mitch. I was simply correcting ZZ's statement, and I certainly was doing it expecting or hoping for your's or anyone else's validation.

Goy Larsen 20 Oct 2003 19:47 UTC↳ reply to grub #51373

grub wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > Awl, comeon Goy. Join the fun. Its ok if you are no good at that oval racing > stuff. Just think, you will make someone happy because they finished better > than you . That might be the special christmas present they have been > waiting for.Whatya say? > My guess is that you are indeed better at it than you are lettin on. :) > grub

LOL, thx, I'm a midfield runner when it comes to oval racing I guess, but that's not the issue, I just find ovals kinda boring that's all and I've never been able to find the urge to practice much, unlike road courses where I can send hours lapping a track all on my own trying different lines and working on my setups....or at least I could back when I had time :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

spark 20 Oct 2003 20:36 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51378

I guess we differ on our interpretation of blocking. From my perspective your nose never caught up to my rear bumper. I drove my normal line through the corner and you hit me from behind square on. Just because you moved to the inside down the straight does that mean I have to just move over and let you by even if your behind? You were not lapping me. If someone besides Mitch wants to enlighten me on my driving I'm willing to listen. This incident was on lap 39. As for the language and whining in chat, maybe that was the other Mitch. I was just going to let it go but you telling ZZ to "go, if not then get the F&%K outta the way" then "A little respect for fellow competitors goes much further and the past few races prove that" followed by "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out" made me recall our incident. I guess I now respect you as much as you repect me. . Spark "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hfIkb.1581$[email hidden]... > If thats you brunt? then you were BLOCKING me and everyone else at Kansas. > I had just watched you do it to Wilshe then I come up on you WAY faster > cause I had new rubber and you came right down onto me. I never oncemoved > up from the low lane and was already slowing as much as I could as we both > had our own lane and I was moving forward. You tried to BLOCK me bymaking > a radical lane change and RUINED both our day for no reason at all.Exactly > what we've been preaching against. I made my intentions clear all the way > down the BS. If you can read my mind or #### on a chat message then youre > pretty good. Guessing makes you look foolish. > > Mitch >

Mitch_A 20 Oct 2003 21:28 UTC↳ reply to spark #51384

First question is whether youre in the cockpit or a roof rider? Im in the cockpit which made you nearly invisible to me as you were in the high lane and I was very low lane entering 3. My spotter hadnt confirmed yet but I assumed you were going to stay high, as you were showing me anyway so I nosed her in low. I had brand new tires and was able to go quite a bit deeper than you did. I was in FULL slow down mode totally holding my low line waiting for the spotter to confirm you were above me when out of no where you drop drown hard left right into my path. Less than 6 inches and I was already in FULL slow down mode. You were way slower as you had lost so much momentum making a radical left hand turn down. Not a dam thing in the world I could do at that point except hope you got back into it fast (which I knew you couldnt). Had you just held your line ALL of the problem could've been avoided. I would've raced you clean through the corner if you wanted to try and race me high. I wasnt happy cause we weren't really even racing in the same group at that point so early in the race. I was hunting for 2nd right behind Wilshe with new rubber. I should've apologized to you as I did the committee for spouting off but I never actually did. I never said anything other than hell during the race btw. As far as respect goes Ive never done anything to dis-respect you on or off the track. You take a shot at me and I fired back. I had let the whole thing go as it was OOTRD more than anyones fault but it could have easily been prevented. Its a lotta work to keep this going and Im not going to let guys take shots at me without merit. What?, now we have guys complaining cause there aren't enough yellow flags? It took a long time to get in as many good races in a row as we've had recently so any complaining at this point is unwarranted. The vast majority RASCAR drivers like fewer yellows not more :) I hope we can just end this now Steve and call it OOTRD and move on. Im not sure what I should say to you ZZ. If thats humor then Im way to sensitive about RASCAR to "get it" so I reacted. Like I told Simmons before, in some ways we are very similar. Mitch "spark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YGXkb.53730$[email hidden]... > I guess we differ on our interpretation of blocking. From my perspective > your nose never caught up to my rear bumper. I drove my normal linethrough > the corner and you hit me from behind square on. Just because you moved to > the inside down the straight does that mean I have to just move over andlet

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> you by even if your behind? You were not lapping me. If someone besides > Mitch wants to enlighten me on my driving I'm willing to listen. This > incident was on lap 39. > > As for the language and whining in chat, maybe that was the other Mitch. I > was just going to let it go but you telling ZZ to "go, if not then get the > F&%K outta the way" then "A little respect for fellow competitors goes

much

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> further and the past few races prove that" followed by "don't let the door > hit you in the ass on the way out" made me recall our incident. I guess I > now respect you as much as you repect me. > . > Spark > > >

grub 20 Oct 2003 21:51 UTC↳ reply to bluestringer #51144

I can here em run at Atlanta on race day. :) grub

bluestringer 20 Oct 2003 21:52 UTC↳ reply to grub #51143

"grub" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I got it ZZ from my earlier post and thought that I had de-fussed it. LikeI > said before, it was a good bait mind you. Marty is a difficult track to > race, because track position is so important and the slow guys canmaintain

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line > to pull off the pass. Been there done that. > > See yall at Atlanta, my home track. (no pun intended) > > grub I was really slow at Mart. I just gave room and let the big dogs go. I did manage to finish 10th., 6 laps down, but there was only 15 starters. Very hard track for me to get consistant laps. I guess I call Atlanta my home track too. I'm in south Georgia, pecan capitol of the world. bluestringer

spark 20 Oct 2003 22:05 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51145

I'm driving with cockpit view. From my perspective your car was fully visible in my mirror the entire time. This would usually indicate to me that I'm clear to take the corner as I normally would which is to enter wide and go low if it's clear. I agree that it's best to just let this thing go. If you say that you didn't say what I thought I remembered in chat then that's cool. My memory is sometimes less than 100%. Time to move on and have a good race next time. Thanks for explaining your view of the incident. Spark "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:psYkb.2082$[email hidden]...

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> First question is whether youre in the cockpit or a roof rider? Im in the > cockpit which made you nearly invisible to me as you were in the high lane > and I was very low lane entering 3. My spotter hadnt confirmed yet but I > assumed you were going to stay high, as you were showing me anyway so I > nosed her in low. I had brand new tires and was able to go quite a bit > deeper than you did. I was in FULL slow down mode totally holding my low > line waiting for the spotter to confirm you were above me when out of no > where you drop drown hard left right into my path. Less than 6 inches and

I > was already in FULL slow down mode. You were way slower as you had lostso > much momentum making a radical left hand turn down. Not a dam thing inthe > world I could do at that point except hope you got back into it fast(which > I knew you couldnt). Had you just held your line ALL of the problem > could've been avoided. I would've raced you clean through the corner ifyou > wanted to try and race me high. I wasnt happy cause we weren't reallyeven > racing in the same group at that point so early in the race. I washunting > for 2nd right behind Wilshe with new rubber. I should've apologized toyou > as I did the committee for spouting off but I never actually did. I never > said anything other than hell during the race btw. As far as respectgoes > Ive never done anything to dis-respect you on or off the track. You takea > shot at me and I fired back. I had let the whole thing go as it was OOTRD > more than anyones fault but it could have easily been prevented. Its a > lotta work to keep this going and Im not going to let guys take shots atme > without merit. What?, now we have guys complaining cause there aren't > enough yellow flags? It took a long time to get in as many good races ina > row as we've had recently so any complaining at this point is unwarranted. > The vast majority RASCAR drivers like fewer yellows not more :) I hope we > can just end this now Steve and call it OOTRD and move on. >

EldredP 20 Oct 2003 22:48 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51148

In article <psYkb.2082$[email hidden]>, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> writes: >My spotter hadnt confirmed yet but I >assumed you were going to stay high, as you were showing me anyway so I >nosed her in low. I had brand new tires and was able to go quite a bit >deeper than you did. I was in FULL slow down mode totally holding my low >line waiting for the spotter to confirm you were above me when out of no >where you drop drown hard left right into my path. If your spotter hadn't said anything, isn't it a safe bet that Steve's hadn't either? So in that case, itn's he alloted to take his normal line through the turn. It sounds from your description that at the time he made the turn in, you weren't even alongside. It just so happened that you were able to go deeper into the turn, which meant you 'caught' him as he got into the corner... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

David G Fisher 20 Oct 2003 23:19 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #51152

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <c8mkb.7922$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:OZkkb.19984$[email hidden]... > > > Ok, the whole points thing is really getting addictive. > > > > I was thinking of a different word myself. > > ------------------ > > Isn't that the whole reason why the takeover? Make it a league? > > No. That happened because two people didn't like the fact that the > rules were going to be rigidly enforced, so instead of just quitting, > they decided to disrupt the whole operation.

Complete bullshit. Hardly surprising. David G Fisher

Michael Horton 21 Oct 2003 00:07 UTC↳ reply to jason moyer #51156

A good T/A league right here... http://member.newsguy.com/~tbones/SRRS/index.htm -- Michael Horton http://www.cta-racing.com "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:15:36 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Yeah Jason post a thread on the RSC forum > >http://forum.racesimcentral.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=142. Were you > >on the invite list at anytime since last year Jason? If not then we need > >your Sierra ID. We're currently looking for a carset manager so till then > >just attach your car to your post. Next season will be winter league but > >no decisions have been made on type/length/dmg/etc. Trucks or TA both jump > >out at me but we'll see. Next regular season starts in March so we have > >plenty of time to get your name. > > I'd definitely be interested in a road course league with PTA or short > tracks with CTS/BGN, but I just left my job and thus finally have free > time to participate in rascar again. I'll post something on RSC when > I get a chance. > > Jason

Don Wilshe 21 Oct 2003 01:32 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #51160

100% agree with you Fisher... DW > > Complete bullshit. Hardly surprising. > > David G Fisher > >

Dave Henrie 21 Oct 2003 03:17 UTC↳ reply to spark #51172

"spark" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:h_Ykb.7459$%[email hidden]: > I'm driving with cockpit view. From my perspective your car was fully > visible in my mirror the entire time. hmmm, this brings back memories of N2/99 where the mirror showed not only what was behind you, but what was alongside as well. Maybe try running some laps with a buddy and use the high detail setting for the mirror, then you can see if the car is in the center area(dead astern) or off to the side of the mirror which 'could' indicate the car is along side...rather than just behind and to the left or right.. I just haven't done enough Papy driving to know...anyone got the scoop on the way the n2k3 mirror displays? dave henrie

Michael Horton 21 Oct 2003 04:46 UTC↳ reply to Dave Henrie #51181

If you have the mirror detail turned on (which most people don't run for one reason or another) you can pretty much tell where the guy behind you is in relation to your car (ie: whether he is close to being inside/outside of you vs if he's low/high but a fair distance behind you). One problematic thing I've noticed since N4 is that cars look farther back at 0.3 seconds than they really are. It looks like you've got 3 or 4 car lengths between you instead of 1 (similar to the right hand mirror in your real life car). -- Michael Horton http://www.cta-racing.com "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "spark" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:h_Ykb.7459$%[email hidden]: > > > I'm driving with cockpit view. From my perspective your car was fully > > visible in my mirror the entire time. > > hmmm, this brings back memories of N2/99 where the mirror showed not only > what was behind you, but what was alongside as well. Maybe try running > some laps with a buddy and use the high detail setting for the mirror, then > you can see if the car is in the center area(dead astern) or off to the > side of the mirror which 'could' indicate the car is along side...rather > than just behind and to the left or right.. > I just haven't done enough Papy driving to know...anyone got the scoop on > the way the n2k3 mirror displays? > > dave henrie

spark 21 Oct 2003 09:33 UTC↳ reply to Dave Henrie #51185

He was never beside me. Spark "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > hmmm, this brings back memories of N2/99 where the mirror showed notonly > what was behind you, but what was alongside as well.

Tony Rickard 21 Oct 2003 18:10 UTC↳ reply to Michael Horton #51222

"Michael Horton" wrote: <snip> One problematic thing > I've noticed since N4 is that cars look farther back at 0.3 seconds than > they really are. It looks like you've got 3 or 4 car lengths between you > instead of 1 (similar to the right hand mirror in your real life car). Yes it seems weird to be on the guy in fron's boot but the guy behind seems way back yet the F2 readout shows the same gap. This is why it often seesm such a shock to get hit from behind and feels as if somes has taken a mighty crazy lunge into the corner to make up the distance when they were right on your bumper all the time! I would love a fix for this. Cheers Tony --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 16/10/2003

Mitch_A 21 Oct 2003 18:39 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #51225

I agree E, Steve likely hadnt heard as I hadnt. But I knew it was coming within milliseconds. I'd assumed Steve's situational awareness was similar to mine so I went for the pass in what Id assumed a situation Steve would understand my intentions. I had committed to making the pass in the low lane in full slow down mode entering 3. Meaning I couldnt slow anymore than I was already. All of a sudden Steve is coming down very hard right in front of me. Literally within a foot from contact. I couldnt slow anymore than I was already trying to so I bumped his rear end, as he slid I was still slowing as much as I could but still got caught up and my day was ruined along with steves. If it wasnt blocking as Steve says then its really just OOTRD. I'd let it go completely myself and thought Steve felt similar which is why I was so surprised to see Steves post. These kinda things happen on track and it really isnt a big deal. Better just hash it out now on the NG than take it onto the track. All is good between Steve and I. Mitch "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > If your spotter hadn't said anything, isn't it a safe bet that Steve'shadn't > either? So in that case, itn's he alloted to take his normal line throughthe > turn. It sounds from your description that at the time he made the turnin, > you weren't even alongside. It just so happened that you were able to go > deeper into the turn, which meant you 'caught' him as he got into thecorner...

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> > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Member > Screamers Racing League > IICC League > GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 > ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 > Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress > N2k3 rank:in progress > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

spark 21 Oct 2003 19:51 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51231

As Mitch said I'm ok with what happened and have no issue with Mitch. The previously discussed incident is done, in the past, resolved with both parties, and ancient history. It was a racing incident that wasn't that major but unfortunately took us both out of the race. My previous post meant to say it wasn't a mirror issue but I was half asleep. I wonder if there is a difference in outlook between racers that primarily do road racing and those that primarily race on ovals. During NASCAR races on TV it appears the racers are more prone to stay in the high groove or the low groove. This works fine for me (primarily a road racer) at Daytona or Talledega but on the 1.5 mile and shorter tracks the quickest route for me is enter high, go low through the middle of the turn and exit high. I know there is different etiquette in oval racing (like someone is going to get upset if you just hug the low line all the time) but I may not understand some of the other unwritten rules. I also don't know what OOTRD means. Spark

Tony Rickard 21 Oct 2003 20:17 UTC↳ reply to spark #51233

"spark" wrote: > I wonder if there is a difference in outlook between racers thatprimarily > do road racing and those that primarily race on ovals. During NASCARraces > on TV it appears the racers are more prone to stay in the high groove orthe > low groove. This works fine for me (primarily a road racer) at Daytona or > Talledega but on the 1.5 mile and shorter tracks the quickest route forme > is enter high, go low through the middle of the turn and exit high. Iknow > there is different etiquette in oval racing (like someone is going to get > upset if you just hug the low line all the time) but I may not understand > some of the other unwritten rules. I also don't know what OOTRD means. I agree Steve. At a track like Zandy you can lose 3-4 secs a lap stuck behind someone but have a hell of a job to get by, without the car in front overtly blocking. In Nascar ovals holding someone up whilst racing for position seems bad etiquette. One of the things I don't like about Nascar I guess. The concept of having track position but not really racing the guy behind because of different strategies. In F1 if you have payed an ace in terms of strategy and end up the fastest guy on the track but your move loses you track position it will compromise you. Whereas in Nascar there seems to be an expectation to let the faster guy go unless it is the last few percent of the race distance. I'm not keen on the strategy game preferring more sprint type racing. It is all irrelevant anyway cos guys like Mitch just go much faster then me regardless - but it makes me feel better to use my lack of understanding of Nascar strategy as an excuse when I get lapped :) Apparently OOTRD="One Of Them Racin' Deals" Cheers Tony --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 16/10/2003

Mitch_A 21 Oct 2003 21:03 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #51235

Well Eldred its hard to say exactly but this is my take. Early in RASCAR we basically had NO rules at all. We all kinda just came into the races with a pickup race mentality and the racing clearly showed that. No one really ever said much and the attitudes from all the drivers became progressively worse as are races became nothing more than caution lap after caution lap. Early this year things came to a head. Guys kinda blame the blow up on its initial roots between David and Tim but really thats just the result of the real problem. The real, problem imo was guys just werent showing other drivers any respect under any circumstances. I agreed with RASCARs need for rules. I along with quite a few others didnt agree with Johns ideas of which rules, anyway most of us already know the rest. What makes things different now is guys have raced each other for a long time now and understand other drivers abilities or lack of. We also preach RESPECT now over and over demand better connection quality and use any tool we have to help make guys drive accordingly (Teamspeack, drivers meetings, etc). We dont have any enforcement policies at all to this point either and things still have really improved all around. Think about that one hard for a moment :) We wont ever eliminate yellow flags but if we can eliminate the needless ones we can get in some good clean fun racin. With enough green flags laps in a row you'll eventually end up racin guys your speed and thats when the real fun of Nascar racing begins. Brian and I had and absolute blast battling at Mart. Each of us could get to the bumper but just couldnt make the pass. When ginger or Neil came up on me I knew each was way faster so I set myself up so I could give them the spot while still not losing ground, not battling him lap after lap slowing both of us down and setting ourselves and others up for a really bad ending to your day. Come on back and see for yourself how things are different. We have a spot reserved for ya at the back of the grid :0) Youre not gonna take that now are ya E? :-) Mitch "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > So tell me - there was no respect for fellow competitors before? Youstill > have the same drivers, and even snagged some NEW faces(wider skill level > difference)... Not flaming, I'd just like to know what's so different nowthat > makes everyone all touchy-feely and produces 5 or less cautions perrace...

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EldredP 22 Oct 2003 03:05 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51112

In article <xahlb.5265$[email hidden]>, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>The real, problem imo was guys just werent showing other >drivers any respect under any circumstances. I agreed with RASCARs need for >rules. I along with quite a few others didnt agree with Johns ideas of >which rules, anyway most of us already know the rest. What makes things >different now is guys have raced each other for a long time now and >understand other drivers abilities or lack of. We also preach RESPECT now >over and over demand better connection quality and use any tool we have to >help make guys drive accordingly (Teamspeack, drivers meetings, etc). We >dont have any enforcement policies at all to this point either and things >still have really improved all around. Think about that one hard for a >moment :)

From my point of view, John and I (and Ed, while he was involved) did that as well. Ok, so you guys have raced against each other under the 'new regime' for what, 4 races? Are you seriously trying to tell me that they've gotten to understand each other more now than they did in the past 2 YEARS? Besides, many of us have raced against each other on other sims and leagues for years. For example, Spark, Hoover, ZZ, and I have been in the Screamers league for at least 3 years. Oliver was in the league as well, but I don't think for as long. Ginger and a couple others have raced together in the past. Most of the drivers were hardly strangers. I looked at the rules on the website. Seems to me that you still have 98%(at least) of the rules that John put into place. It sounds like you're trying to say that the reason everyone is a better racer now is because John and I aren't admins anymore. For that to be true, that would mean that people were fucking up on purpose before. Nothing personal, but I ain't buying that...

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>We wont ever eliminate yellow flags but if we can eliminate the needless >ones we can get in some good clean fun racin. With enough green flags laps >in a row you'll eventually end up racin guys your speed and thats when the >real fun of Nascar racing begins. Brian and I had and absolute blast >battling at Mart. Each of us could get to the bumper but just couldnt make >the pass. When ginger or Neil came up on me I knew each was way faster so I >set myself up so I could give them the spot while still not losing ground, >not battling him lap after lap slowing both of us down and setting ourselves >and others up for a really bad ending to your day. > >Come on back and see for yourself how things are different. We have a spot >reserved for ya at the back of the grid :0) Youre not gonna take that now >are ya E? :-)

Nope, I'm not going to take that spot at the back of the grid. Driving around an oval in last place is much more boring than driving around Spa in the same position... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Michael Horton 22 Oct 2003 04:00 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #51119

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <xahlb.5265$[email hidden]>, "Mitch_A" > <[email hidden]> writes: > ------snipped a bunch of stuff I have nothing to do with and I have enough problems with politics in the leagues I admin. ------ > > Nope, I'm not going to take that spot at the back of the grid. Drivingaround > an oval in last place is much more boring than driving around Spa in thesame

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> position... > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Member > Screamers Racing League > IICC League > GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 > ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 > Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress > N2k3 rank:in progress > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I don't know about that Eldred. While the scenery isn't as nice at least on an oval you'll see other cars sooner than you will a Spa <g>. -- Michael Horton http://www.cta-racing.com

Mitch_A 22 Oct 2003 06:48 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #51129

Man o man, where you read that from I havent a clue Eldred. I didnt say or insinuate anything even remotely similar. You asked me a question and I answered with an opinion. You may not agree with my opinion but dont read/write something into it that I didnt put there. One last time Eldred. You werent admins you were volunteers. For whatever reason neither of you ever could understand that. Im not an admin and neither is David or anyone for that matter. We volunteer to keep RASCAR going. We've tried to include everyone in any decisions on rules or anything related to RASCAR. No individual is bigger than RASCAR. Somehow you and John felt/feel RASCAR was/is yours and could do whatever you guys wanted. RASCAR isnt owned by anyone. The drivers in RASCAR make RASCAR what it is. Mitch "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message It sounds like you're trying to > say that the reason everyone is a better racer now is because John and Iaren't > admins anymore. For that to be true, that would mean that people werefucking > up on purpose before. Nothing personal, but I ain't buying that... >

John Simmons 22 Oct 2003 09:53 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #51135

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > I looked at the rules on the website. Seems to me that you still have 98%(at > least) of the rules that John put into place. I think that's more of a lack of web page updates. Afterall, our cars are still shown in the roster. Ed isn't as aggressive with web page updates as I was. > It sounds like you're trying to > say that the reason everyone is a better racer now is because John and I aren't > admins anymore. No, he's saying it's better because *I'm* not an admin any more. They hadn't reckoned on you yanking the use of the server. > For that to be true, that would mean that people were fucking > up on purpose before. Nothing personal, but I ain't buying that... I don't think people were fucking up on purpose. It would be pretty close to impossible to quantify why the racing appears to have gotten better other than the possibility that people realized that things were turning to shit pretty fast when you quit and yanked the server, so they finally decided to get their collective driving crap together.

Mitch_A 22 Oct 2003 16:07 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #51000

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MPG.1a000ff8b107881b989acb@news-> > No, he's saying it's better because *I'm* not an admin any more. They > hadn't reckoned on you yanking the use of the server. Not even close. First you never were an admin. You volunteered for anything you did in RASCAR. This is the fundamental flaw in your thinking, whether it's ego driven isnt important. You and Eldred decided that the server and John were inclusive to each other when they really werent. Dave and I are in the same boat as Eldred was with his server yet I dont feel I OWN RASCAR and Im sure David feels the same.

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> > > For that to be true, that would mean that people were fucking > > up on purpose before. Nothing personal, but I ain't buying that... > > I don't think people were fucking up on purpose. It would be pretty > close to impossible to quantify why the racing appears to have gotten > better other than the possibility that people realized that things > were turning to shit pretty fast when you quit and yanked the server, > so they finally decided to get their collective driving crap > together. >

It really doesnt matter why the driving is better but that it has improved. Will bad races still happen? Of course they will. Is everything perfect? Nope. Are we now on the right track? I think so. And all of this without threats, go figure. Mitch

EldredP 22 Oct 2003 20:02 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51018

>You and Eldred decided that the >server and John were inclusive to each other when they really werent. Ok, I don't even know what this means. :-( We could have had either one without the other... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP 22 Oct 2003 20:14 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51019

>Man o man, where you read that from I havent a clue Eldred. I didnt say or >insinuate anything even remotely similar. You asked me a question and I >answered with an opinion. You may not agree with my opinion but dont >read/write something into it that I didnt put there. As you said in one of your replies to someone else, maybe you're too sensitive to the situation. Maybe I am as well. It pained me to see something that I liked crash and burn like that...

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>One last time Eldred. You werent admins you were volunteers. For whatever >reason neither of you ever could understand that. Im not an admin and >neither is David or anyone for that matter. We volunteer to keep RASCAR >going. We've tried to include everyone in any decisions on rules or >anything related to RASCAR. No individual is bigger than RASCAR. Somehow >you and John felt/feel RASCAR was/is yours and could do whatever you guys >wanted. RASCAR isnt owned by anyone. The drivers in RASCAR make RASCAR >what it is.

Ok, you don't like John - I understand that, and can respect your opinion. David doesn't like me - same statement towards him. I can live with that. But, we *did* try to get people involved. The problem was, nothing was working! People were getting pissed(understandably) at running half the race under yellow. Decisions were made and actions were taken in multiple attempts to improve the *racing*. Excuse me for being human and TRYING. I wish you guys well - I really do. Other than my total lack of speed, the races were often something to look forward to on a Saturday afternoon. Tell you what - I won't respond anymore. I'll even filter "Rascar" in my newsreader. Have fun, Mitch. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Mitch_A 22 Oct 2003 21:41 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #51023

Snipped "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... It pained me to see something that I > liked crash and burn like that... RASCAR hasnt crashed and burned. What because you dont start the server every week you dont want to play anymore? Nothing has really changed much at all. We had many great races before the blowup but sadly we had many more that were really bad. We're still out there trying regardless. > > Ok, you don't like John - I understand that, and can respect your opinion. > David doesn't like me - same statement towards him. I can live with that. > But, we *did* try to get people involved. The problem was, nothing was > working! People were getting pissed(understandably) at running half therace > under yellow. Decisions were made and actions were taken in multipleattempts Ive said at least 10 times I like John. Do I disagree with some of his ideas?, yes. Do I agree with some of his ideas?, yes also. I cant put words in Davids mouth but I'd suspect you were never part of any dislike from his part or mine. I've really tried to bring you and John both back to racing with RASCAR. Id hoped each of you would contribute on the committee as youve contributed in the past. Sadly it doesnt look like this will happen. Things in RASCAR while not perfect are running along ok and moving forward. I try not to start any threads that re-hash what we went through but I keep getting sucked backwards re-explaining what Ive said countless times. > to improve the *racing*. Excuse me for being human and TRYING. > The problem was Eldred you were TRYING through a proxy instead of saying it yourself. Had you said some of the same exact things John said, things might have been different. I still often wonder why you let John act the way he did and silence from you. The first thing we all knew from you is you were pulling the plug. I sent you numerous un-answered emails on everything that happened. > I wish you guys well - I really do. Other than my total lack of speed,the > races were often something to look forward to on a Saturday afternoon. We still race every week Eldred and you know youre welcome. I wont keep asking though, its up to you guys now. > > Tell you what - I won't respond anymore. I'll even filter "Rascar" in my > newsreader. Have fun, Mitch. I dont know why you have to go to that extreme Eldred? You asked a question so I gave you my opinion. We may disagree but we dont need to escalate this to the point of filtering. Same can be said for Simmons. We're just beating a dead horse now so I think Ill just drop it. Whether you or John ever listened before Ill say it one last time. I appreciated everything you guys did for RASCAR. I showed that clearly by making donations of money as well as hardware (video card) for the continuation of RASCAR. I refuse to be treated the way John treats people and I wasnt alone. Mitch

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John Simmons 22 Oct 2003 21:44 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #51025

Eldred, just in case you did killfile all refernces to "that league", I starred the name of "that league" so that you'd see this. :) In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > Ok, you don't like John - I understand that, and can respect your opinion. > David doesn't like me - same statement towards him. I can live with that. > But, we *did* try to get people involved. The problem was, nothing was > working! People were getting pissed(understandably) at running half the race > under yellow. Decisions were made and actions were taken in multiple attempts > to improve the *racing*. Excuse me for being human and TRYING.

Eldred, I tried for two weeks to drive that point home. Take it from someone who knows - you're wasting your time... I was thinking part of (a lot of?) the improvement in the racing might be a combination of physics changes and the tweaked setups that were supplied with the patch. I don't think we had a problem with respect between drivers as claimed by Mitch. The original fast setups were a bitch to drive, especially if you tried to stay pure to the sim "ideal" by not using any driving aids, and driving in-car. > I wish you guys well - I really do. Other than my total lack of speed, the > races were often something to look forward to on a Saturday afternoon. I really do miss being able to race on Saturdays, and I'm up for another attempt that is not "that league" if you want to provide the server again. Of course, there would be some obvious changes to the way things are administered... :) You know my email address if you're interested.

Mitch_A 22 Oct 2003 22:05 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #51028

How old are you again? If my 17 or 19yr old acted this way they'd get smacked :0) "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Eldred, just in case you did killfile all refernces to "that league", > I starred the name of "that league" so that you'd see this. :) > > > In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > > > Ok, you don't like John - I understand that, and can respect your

opinion. > > David doesn't like me - same statement towards him. I can live withthat. > > But, we *did* try to get people involved. The problem was, nothing was > > working! People were getting pissed(understandably) at running half therace > > under yellow. Decisions were made and actions were taken in multipleattempts

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> > to improve the *racing*. Excuse me for being human and TRYING. > > Eldred, I tried for two weeks to drive that point home. Take it from > someone who knows - you're wasting your time... > > I was thinking part of (a lot of?) the improvement in the racing > might be a combination of physics changes and the tweaked setups that > were supplied with the patch. I don't think we had a problem with > respect between drivers as claimed by Mitch. The original fast > setups were a bitch to drive, especially if you tried to stay pure to > the sim "ideal" by not using any driving aids, and driving in-car. > > > I wish you guys well - I really do. Other than my total lack of speed,

the

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> > races were often something to look forward to on a Saturday afternoon. > > I really do miss being able to race on Saturdays, and I'm up for > another attempt that is not "that league" if you want to provide the > server again. Of course, there would be some obvious changes to the > way things are administered... :) > > You know my email address if you're interested.

Tony Rickard 22 Oct 2003 22:37 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51030

Mitch_A" wrote: > One last time Eldred. You werent admins you were volunteers. > For whatever reason neither of you ever could understand that. > Im not an admin and neither is David or anyone for that matter. > We volunteer to keep RASCAR going. Mitch, I think you have to respect the history of Rascar. Whatever you think of his management style John did start Rascar (the Hey Eldred thread) and as the thread name suggests Eldred provided the server from the outset. John managed the website, the roster, the schedule and formulated some basic rules just as someone would if creating say a new motor club. Eldred managed the invite list and made the server available for the alloted times etc. Yes they were volunteers, but they were administering the club. Just as a volunteer manages my son's football club. They managed Rascar just as you now aim to "keep it going" - same concept - maybe different delivery. The concept of Rascar was fantastic - racing with the names we have traded comments with over the years. DGF with his RAS Sucks paint job - and for a Rookie like me plenty of advice on Nascar rules. > We've tried to include everyone in any decisions on rules or > anything related to RASCAR. No individual is bigger than RASCAR. Somehow > you and John felt/feel RASCAR was/is yours and could do whatever you guys > wanted. RASCAR isnt owned by anyone. The drivers in RASCAR make RASCAR > what it is. The communal ownership is a worthy principle but I think you are being overly humble. Somebody has to make some decisions along the way and I don't see too many polls being conducted which I conclude to mean you are asking what you believe to be the right people for views. Somebody made a call to experiment with yellows off. This isn't a criticism, just an observation that John and Eldred managed Rascar and now you & Dave do. The difference is the style of management. It is like a cabinet reshuffle rather than an uprising of the populous. I wish you every success, but understand why many here would view John & Eldred as the original admins of Rascar and that duty (whether you like or want the title) has transferred to you with a degree of baggage that comes with it. The People's Front of Rascar it ain't <G> (or was that the Rascar People's Front?) Cheers Tony

Mitch_A 22 Oct 2003 22:39 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #51031

Actually I hadnt read what was woven into the other message and I cant find the original post. Im not sure who it's from but it doesnt sound like you John. Whoever its from just shows pure selfishness on their part. Im surprised you would even consider fracturing RASCAR in that way John, pretty darn sad on both your parts really. "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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EldredP 23 Oct 2003 02:58 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51047

In article <nGDlb.5563$[email hidden]>, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> writes: >Im >surprised you would even consider fracturing RASCAR in that way John, pretty >darn sad on both your parts really. "pretty darn sad on both your parts"? Are you including me in that as well? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP 23 Oct 2003 02:58 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #51049

In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes: >Eldred, I tried for two weeks to drive that point home. Take it from >someone who knows - you're wasting your time... > Let's let it go, John...

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>I was thinking part of (a lot of?) the improvement in the racing >might be a combination of physics changes and the tweaked setups that >were supplied with the patch. I don't think we had a problem with >respect between drivers as claimed by Mitch. The original fast >setups were a bitch to drive, especially if you tried to stay pure to >the sim "ideal" by not using any driving aids, and driving in-car. > >> I wish you guys well - I really do. Other than my total lack of speed, the >> races were often something to look forward to on a Saturday afternoon. > >I really do miss being able to race on Saturdays, and I'm up for >another attempt that is not "that league" if you want to provide the >server again. Of course, there would be some obvious changes to the >way things are administered... :) > >You know my email address if you're interested.

Thanks, but no. I'll sit this one out... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP 23 Oct 2003 02:58 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51051

In article <5QClb.3400$[email hidden]>, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> writes: >RASCAR hasnt crashed and burned. What because you dont start the server >every week you dont want to play anymore? Nothing has really changed much >at all. We had many great races before the blowup but sadly we had many >more that were really bad. We're still out there trying regardless. Since I'm a nice guy, I'll ignore what some could take as a cheap shot at me. <g> My lack of participation really doesn't have anything to do with my not providing a server anymore. If you recall, I had stopped driving for a while before. I wasn't happy with my performance, but I was more than happy to host even if I wan't running myself. After getting a lecture from John about how I should be racing because I was an admin, I started driving again. My performance still sucked, but at least I was involved. I simply don't have the time to practice enough to keep it between the walls. No sense in screwing it up for everyone else.

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> > >Ive said at least 10 times I like John. Do I disagree with some of his >ideas?, yes. Do I agree with some of his ideas?, yes also. I cant put >words in Davids mouth but I'd suspect you were never part of any dislike >from his part or mine. I've really tried to bring you and John both back to >racing with RASCAR. Id hoped each of you would contribute on the committee >as youve contributed in the past. Sadly it doesnt look like this will >happen. Things in RASCAR while not perfect are running along ok and moving >forward. I try not to start any threads that re-hash what we went through >but I keep getting sucked backwards re-explaining what Ive said countless >times. > > >> to improve the *racing*. Excuse me for being human and TRYING. >> > > >The problem was Eldred you were TRYING through a proxy instead of saying it >yourself. Had you said some of the same exact things John said, things >might have been different. I still often wonder why you let John act the >way he did and silence from you.

Because he's *good* at being the heavy, and I had my doubts that people would listen to me anyway. They hadn't in the past... Maybe I over-reacted, but that's how I felt at the time. I also agreed with a lot of what John wanted to do, so I didn't see the harm in it. >The first thing we all knew from you is >you were pulling the plug. I sent you numerous un-answered emails on >everything that happened. Really? Then I apologize. I may have initially not responded due to a lack of time, then lost the mail in my inbox, then lost the inbox itself with the hard drive crash.

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>> I wish you guys well - I really do. Other than my total lack of speed, >the >> races were often something to look forward to on a Saturday afternoon. > > >We still race every week Eldred and you know youre welcome. I wont keep >asking though, its up to you guys now. >

I know, thanks. Jan keeps needling me to race again as well...<g>

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>> >> Tell you what - I won't respond anymore. I'll even filter "Rascar" in my >> newsreader. Have fun, Mitch. > > >I dont know why you have to go to that extreme Eldred? You asked a question >so I gave you my opinion. We may disagree but we dont need to escalate this >to the point of filtering.

Chalk that up to a fucked up day at work, and other stuff going wrong with my life. I wasn't exactly in a cheerful mood when I wrote that. As you can see, I didn't follow through on it. Same can be said for Simmons. We're just >beating a dead horse now so I think Ill just drop it. Whether you or John >ever listened before Ill say it one last time. I appreciated everything you >guys did for RASCAR. I showed that clearly by making donations of money as >well as hardware (video card) for the continuation of RASCAR. I know, and I appreciate it. >I refuse to >be treated the way John treats people and I wasnt alone. Yeah, well...I can understand that. If I had disagreed with the plans(or even if I'd been on the 'other side of the table', I might have reacted the same way. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Mitch_A 23 Oct 2003 05:29 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #51057

It wasnt you no Eldred.. John was forwarding from something you said that included what some unknown writer added to. Its this unknown guy that Im talking about. I dont know why I cant find the original post. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <nGDlb.5563$[email hidden]>, "Mitch_A" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Im > >surprised you would even consider fracturing RASCAR in that way John,pretty > >darn sad on both your parts really. > > "pretty darn sad on both your parts"? Are you including me in that aswell?

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Tony Rickard 23 Oct 2003 07:25 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51059

"Mitch_A" wrote: > It wasnt you no Eldred.. John was forwarding from something you saidthat > included what some unknown writer added to. Its this unknown guy that Im > talking about. I dont know why I cant find the original post. I just saw a post from John that included an intro at the top and he responded to Eldred's points below. Or did I miss something? Don't believe thare was anyone else in there - apart from John's multiple personalities of course :) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 16/10/2003

John Simmons 23 Oct 2003 10:04 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51063

In article <nGDlb.5563$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Im > surprised you would even consider fracturing RASCAR in that way John, pretty > darn sad on both your parts really. Since you insist on responding to messages that I'm not directing at you... First, I'm not fracturing anything. I'm just living by the same recommendations so many other people (including myself) gave you and Dave when the bullshit started. Here it is in paraphrased form: "If you don't like the rules in a league you're running in, get out and start your own league or join one that has rules you can live with." If you and Dave would have done that back in August when it was suggested to you, we wouldn't be sitting here now discussing it, now would we? Saturday is a convenient time for me to race. Just because I am no longer racing in RASCAR doesn't mean I'm going to go out of my way to start another league that races in a timeframe that isn't convenient for me just because it conflicts with RASCAR's start time. If I end up getting a league started, and if some of the RASCAR guys want to join, that's fine with me, if they don't, that's fine too.

Don Wilshe 23 Oct 2003 12:59 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #51074

Rascar 2003!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I believe having raced RASCAR for two years its better than ever. Last year it was great as well. The drivers are very competitive with fixed setups. They are more important courteous and know when to race you and when to give room. RASCAR 2002 was 2002, Its now 2003 and its time to move on and make it even better for 2004. Dave and Mitch are doing a great job and were lucky to have a great foundation that Eldred conceived along with other founders... Enuff Said, Lets Race! Don Wilshe PS. Let the snipping stop especially by those that dont race so therefore dont have a clue as to what RASCAR now is all about.

Tim 23 Oct 2003 17:01 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51083

LOL So, you 'volunteered' to take control of RASCAR by buying your own server. Fine. Call it whatever you want but you're playing on words. Well here's mine ... You force a guy like Eldred to quit, then conveniently get the only other moron here to help you buy your way in, and you think of yourself as a volunteer? You make me laugh. Jan was the first person to step up and offer a server when Eldred quit. Not you buddy. Although I was disappointed at him backing out of that offer, I understood why he didn't feel like pressing the issue. Sure, you're just some nice guy who wants the best for RASCAR. Right. I'll tell you one thing. You and Fuckup will never, ever get as much respect around here as Eldred did. No way. Never. All he has to do is open up his server, get John back in it, and they will get just as many people as you did. They'll certainly get me back. Among others, they are the ones who built something worth stealing, not you. Do yourself a favor and do not fool yourself into thinking people will look at you any other way. -- Tim White "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sLplb.2692$[email hidden]... > > One last time Eldred. You werent admins you were volunteers. For whatever > reason neither of you ever could understand that. Im not an admin and > neither is David or anyone for that matter. We volunteer to keep RASCAR > going. We've tried to include everyone in any decisions on rules or > anything related to RASCAR. No individual is bigger than RASCAR. Somehow > you and John felt/feel RASCAR was/is yours and could do whatever you guys > wanted. RASCAR isnt owned by anyone. The drivers in RASCAR make RASCAR > what it is. > > > Mitch >

Mitch_A 23 Oct 2003 17:10 UTC↳ reply to Tim #51087

I really dont understand your issues but go back to your shrink, he can help you really he can. If not a .22 can solve all your personal problems. Regardless leave me out of your bizzarro world. Plonk, again! "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:APTlb.749$[email hidden]...

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> LOL > > So, you 'volunteered' to take control of RASCAR by buying your own server. > Fine. Call it whatever you want but you're playing on words. > > Well here's mine ... >

EldredP 23 Oct 2003 17:11 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #51088

>It wasnt you no Eldred.. John was forwarding from something you said that >included what some unknown writer added to. Its this unknown guy that Im >talking about. I dont know why I cant find the original post. > Ok. -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP 23 Oct 2003 17:13 UTC↳ reply to Don Wilshe #50939

> >Don Wilshe > >PS. Let the snipping stop especially by those that dont race so therefore >dont have a clue as to what RASCAR now is all about. > Didn't you make comments about it when you weren't racing? That's fine, but now you're espousing a standard that you yourself didn't follow... Just be consistent, man... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Mitch_A 23 Oct 2003 17:37 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #50940

I think it's Tim White Eldred. He and David had issues but he continues to hammer me (for reasons unknown) so he's the sole member of my killfile which was why I didnt see any original posts. No matter. Just to set the record straight Tim quit RASCAR on his own. Neither David nor I ever so much as mentioned him in any conversation. If he feels forced out of RASCAR then thats something he must deal with on his own cause he wasnt forced to do anything he didnt want to that I know of anyway :) Mitch "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Ok. > --

Mitch_A 23 Oct 2003 17:41 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #50941

Now that I think of it didnt Tim quit before the blowup? "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ulUlb.5855$[email hidden]... > I think it's Tim White Eldred. He and David had issues but he continuesto > hammer me (for reasons unknown) so he's the sole member of my killfilewhich > was why I didnt see any original posts. No matter. > > Just to set the record straight Tim quit RASCAR on his own. Neither David > nor I ever so much as mentioned him in any conversation. If he feelsforced

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> out of RASCAR then thats something he must deal with on his own cause he > wasnt forced to do anything he didnt want to that I know of anyway :) > > Mitch > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Ok. > > -- > >

Tony Rickard 23 Oct 2003 19:22 UTC↳ reply to Don Wilshe #50948

"Don Wilshe" wrote: > RASCAR 2002 was 2002, Its now 2003 and its time to move on <snip> Happy new year Don! > PS. Let the snipping stop especially by those that dont race so therefore > dont have a clue as to what RASCAR now is all about. Doh! Too late I snipped above...

jon 23 Oct 2003 19:57 UTC↳ reply to Don Wilshe #50949

"Don Wilshe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:dhQlb.14248$[email hidden]... ><snip> Its now 2003 <snip> 2003 ?!? OH SHIT, I'M LATE FOR WORK !

spark 23 Oct 2003 21:13 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #50953

RASCAR posts on RAS are beginning to resemble a sequel to one of the works of George Orwell. Spark

John Simmons 23 Oct 2003 21:41 UTC↳ reply to spark #50958

In article <hwXlb.21560$%[email hidden]>, sbrunt1 @maine.rr.nospam.com says... > RASCAR posts on RAS are beginning to resemble a sequel to one of the works > of George Orwell. > > Spark I don't understand the connection...

Goy Larsen 23 Oct 2003 21:41 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #50957

EldredP wrote:

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> > > > >Don Wilshe > > > >PS. Let the snipping stop especially by those that dont race so therefore > >dont have a clue as to what RASCAR now is all about. > > > > Didn't you make comments about it when you weren't racing? That's fine, but > now you're espousing a standard that you yourself didn't follow... Just be > consistent, man...

You do know who you're talking to Eldred ? :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

David G Fisher 23 Oct 2003 21:46 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #50960

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Ok, you don't like John - I understand that, and can respect your opinion. > David doesn't like me - same statement towards him. I can live with that. I don't dislike you. You always seemed like a nice person to me. I did not like the way you let John turn his volunteer position into a dictatorship, and that you let him kick me out of RASCAR by taking me off the invite list. That was complete bullshit. I also didn't like it at all when you said on this newsgroup that I dive bombed you. I don't do that. I'm a very safe driver. I went six races recently without bringing out a yellow. When I finally did, it was becasue of connection problems on my end. It was actually nine races before I just plain screwed up and caused a yellow. Saying I dive bomb people without anything to back it up really pissed me off. Although you and John kicked me out of RASCAR, I still was fine with having you on the new server because I do not dislike you. If you dislike me, that's fine. David G Fisher

John Simmons 23 Oct 2003 21:49 UTC↳ reply to Don Wilshe #50962

In article <dhQlb.14248$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > I believe having raced RASCAR for two years its better than ever. Last > year it was great as well. How many races did you race in last year Don? Two, maybe three? You sure do have a lot of experience where RASCAR is concerned. I'm envious. The only reason you're racing there now is because *I'm* not running the roster any more (and probably as much for the fact that we don't get along, so you have buddies to snuggle up with now). > RASCAR 2002 was 2002, Its now 2003 and its time to move on and > make it even better for 2004. Dave and Mitch are doing a great job and > were lucky to have a great foundation that Eldred conceived along with > other founders... Dancing around not naming me is pretty fuckin' funny Don, even for a slope-foreheaded open-mouth breather like yourself... > PS. Let the snipping stop especially by those that dont race so therefore > dont have a clue as to what RASCAR now is all about. Pot = kettle = black You're pathetic, Wilshe...

David G Fisher 23 Oct 2003 21:49 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #50961

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > > I looked at the rules on the website. Seems to me that you still have98%(at

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> > least) of the rules that John put into place. > > I think that's more of a lack of web page updates. Afterall, our > cars are still shown in the roster. Ed isn't as aggressive with web > page updates as I was. > > > It sounds like you're trying to > > say that the reason everyone is a better racer now is because John and I

aren't > > admins anymore. > > No, he's saying it's better because *I'm* not an admin any more. They > hadn't reckoned on you yanking the use of the server. Didn't matter.

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> > For that to be true, that would mean that people were fucking > > up on purpose before. Nothing personal, but I ain't buying that... > > I don't think people were fucking up on purpose. It would be pretty > close to impossible to quantify why the racing appears to have gotten > better other than the possibility that people realized that things > were turning to shit pretty fast when you quit and yanked the server, > so they finally decided to get their collective driving crap > together.

More garbage from the usual source. David G Fisher

John Simmons 23 Oct 2003 21:52 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #50964

In article <ulUlb.5855$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> I think it's Tim White Eldred. He and David had issues but he continues to > hammer me (for reasons unknown) so he's the sole member of my killfile which > was why I didnt see any original posts. No matter. > > Just to set the record straight Tim quit RASCAR on his own. Neither David > nor I ever so much as mentioned him in any conversation. If he feels forced > out of RASCAR then thats something he must deal with on his own cause he > wasnt forced to do anything he didnt want to that I know of anyway :)

He quit because Dave is an asshole, and for no other reason. I was gonna say because he *thought* Dave was an asshole, but since I can verify that Dave is in fact a walking, talking, breathing browneye of a human being, I figured that was all the verification that was required.

John Simmons 23 Oct 2003 21:59 UTC↳ reply to Tim #50965

In article <APTlb.749$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> LOL > > So, you 'volunteered' to take control of RASCAR by buying your own server. > Fine. Call it whatever you want but you're playing on words. > > Well here's mine ... > > > Sure, you're just some nice guy who wants the best for RASCAR. Right.

I can believe that he believes he's doing what he thinks is best. I don't have to agree with it, but I can believe it. :) > I'll tell you one thing. You and Fuckup will never, ever get as much respect > around here as Eldred did. No way. Never. All he has to do is open up his > server, get John back in it, and they will get just as many people as you did. Eldred ain't swinging at that ball - I've tried to get him interested a few times, and he's pretty much said he ain't gonna do it. That's too bad too because I have (had) a great connection to his server. :( I may have to resort to more drastic measures - I was thinking about sending him to the same college that all of the Hooters waitresses claim to be attending in exchange for him running the server again. > They'll certainly get me back. Among others, they are the ones who built > something worth stealing, not you. Me and Eldred started it, but everyone that drove (yes, even Dave and Mitch) made it into something worth stealing.

spark 23 Oct 2003 22:04 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #50966

It's like Animal Farm 2 Spark "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > RASCAR posts on RAS are beginning to resemble a sequel to one of the works > > of George Orwell. > > > > Spark > > > I don't understand the connection...

McWhom 23 Oct 2003 22:09 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #50968

"Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:epUlb.5856$[email hidden]... > Now that I think of it didnt Tim quit before the blowup? > > > "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ulUlb.5855$[email hidden]... >snip> Yes, he quite when he and Dave had a blow up over an on track incident. That seems to have been the beginning of the end for that incarnation of RASCAR. I believe he was going to try driving again with the *new* RASCAR but I don't know if he ever did. Pretty damn funny! I had not even read RAS for some time and was just curious what was going on here. Kinda like a soap opera isn't it, seems I haven't missed much. Sean

Don Wilshe 23 Oct 2003 22:45 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #50976

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > How many races did you race in last year Don? Two, maybe three? I ran three (3) and won 2 i believe.. > sure do have a lot of experience where RASCAR is concerned. I'm > envious. Thanks John...... > The only reason you're racing there now is because *I'm* > not running the roster any more (and probably as much for the fact > that we don't get along, so you have buddies to snuggle up with now). Not true John we have always been tight. your just such a kidder!! > > Dancing around not naming me is pretty fuckin' funny Don, even for a > slope-foreheaded open-mouth breather like yourself... You must of been going to night school lately. Leaned some words longer than 4 characters... I apologize to John Simmons I forgot he was part of RASCAR. I didnt really name any names. I just mentioned RASCAR. It wasnt one person John but it was a team and you were just part of it. I think your problem john that explains why you arent there was you thought you were RASCAR. But, You John most of all deserve all the credit for where RASCAR has risen too. Without You.. hehe Don Wilshe

David G Fisher 23 Oct 2003 22:49 UTC↳ reply to Tim #50978

"Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:APTlb.749$[email hidden]... > LOL > > So, you 'volunteered' to take control of RASCAR We din't take control of anything. People weren't forced to come racing on the new server. When a certain person who acts a lot like you kicked me out of RASCAR, and made up lies along the way in order to justify it (Bristol practice), Mitch and I had really had no choice but to start something new. If people didn't like what we were doing, then the races would be empty. > by buying your own server. > Fine. Call it whatever you want but you're playing on words. > > Well here's mine ... Oooh. Can't wait. BTW, are you the Tim White who people say is a cheater, or the one who threatens to wreck people during and after races? > You force a guy like Eldred to quit, He quit all on his own. Simmons kicked people out for bullshit reasons. If Simmons had treated people politely and hadn't acted like such a jerk, Eldred wouldn't have gotten frustrated by the turmoil Simmons created, and quit. >then conveniently get the only other moron > here to help you buy your way in, and you think of yourself as avolunteer? All volunteer work. Neither of us will ever say that "it's our way or get the f**k out". >You > make me laugh. Jan was the first person to step up and offer a serverwhen > Eldred quit. Not you buddy. We had already planned on getting a server. Some jerk kicked us out of the old RASCAR, people didn't like how it was being run. Only option we had. >Although I was disappointed at him backing out of > that offer, I understood why he didn't feel like pressing the issue. > > Sure, you're just some nice guy who wants the best for RASCAR. Right. Absolutely, positively, 100% true. That's what we both want, and things are working well now, minus the dicator garbage that we all had to put up with before. It's run by the group now. One person does not own RASCAR. > I'll tell you one thing. You and Fuckup will never, ever get as muchrespect > around here as Eldred did. No way. Never. Tears are welling up in my eyes. >All he has to do is open up his > server, get John back in it, and they will get just as many people as youdid. > They'll certainly get me back. Among others, they are the ones who built > something worth stealing, not you. You think so? Eldred is a nice guy, but I doubt very much that people want to go back to the old ways of doing things. I also doubt they want to race with someone like you who threatens to wreck people, and has a reputation as a cheater. > Do yourself a favor and do not fool yourself into thinking people willlook at > you any other way. Lol. Bitter little turd. David G Fisher

Don Wilshe 23 Oct 2003 22:50 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #50979

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <ulUlb.5855$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > He quit because Dave is an asshole, and for no other reason. > > I was gonna say because he *thought* Dave was an asshole, but since I > can verify that Dave is in fact a walking, talking, breathing > browneye of a human being, I figured that was all the verification > that was required.

Two losses to RASCAR that can never be replaced. Very Sad day... hehe DW

Don Wilshe 23 Oct 2003 23:07 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #50982

> Me and Eldred started it, but everyone that drove (yes, even Dave and > Mitch) made it into something worth stealing. Nothing was stolen Mr. Simmons.. You have always been invited to race. You have never been excluded from RASCAR. The fact you dont race is because you never could be competitive. Same reason that Eldred dropped out cause he couldnt win races and quit instead of tried to get better. Door is always open Mr. Simmons and Eldred. When and if you ever get the talent bring it on. Dont lay that crap on Dave or Mitch,they took chicken shit situation you created and made prime rib. Your problem is you went from valet parking cars at RASCAR in your little lot or paints to enforcer when none was required. Saturday John thats between Sunday and Friday. Bring it on or just run your mouth in the RAS until you can bring it on the track... hehe Don Wilshe

Goy Larsen 23 Oct 2003 23:09 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50981

David G Fisher wrote: > > I also doubt they want to race with someone like you who threatens to > wreck people, and has a reputation as a cheater. LOL, you've been talking to Wilshe again haven't you Here's a piece of advice for you David, most people don't really care one way or the other about what went on between you and Tim in that RASCAR race and afterwards, but repeating allegations from Don Wilshe about Tim White being a cheater makes you look *really* stupid Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

EldredP 24 Oct 2003 03:00 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50897

In article <[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>I don't dislike you. You always seemed like a nice person to me. I did not >like the way you let John turn his volunteer position into a dictatorship, >and that you let him kick me out of RASCAR by taking me off the invite list. >That was complete bullshit. I also didn't like it at all when you said on >this newsgroup that I dive bombed you. I don't do that. I'm a very safe >driver. I went six races recently without bringing out a yellow. When I >finally did, it was becasue of connection problems on my end. It was >actually nine races before I just plain screwed up and caused a yellow. >Saying I dive bomb people without anything to back it up really pissed me >off.

I allowed people to view the replay and see for themselves. Although calling it a dive bomb pass may just be a matter of opinion(I'm not sure that I actually used that term...), many people agreed that it was overly aggressive. >Although you and John kicked me out of RASCAR, I still was fine with having >you on the new server because I do not dislike you. If you dislike me, >that's fine. Um, I never kicked you out of RASCAR. That's a flat out lie. You had a one race suspension, and that was it. You were still on the invite list, and I thought that you even ran a race or two AFTER that...? True, John *wanted* me to kick you out, but I refused to do that. I don't know where you got the crazy idea that I did. If I wanted you out totally, why would I have let you run on the RASF1 server? Come on, David...think instead of blindly react. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP 24 Oct 2003 03:00 UTC↳ reply to Tim #50898

In article <APTlb.749$[email hidden]>, "Tim" <[email hidden]> writes: >I'll tell you one thing. You and Fuckup will never, ever get as much respect >around here as Eldred did. No way. Never. All he has to do is open up his >server, get John back in it, and they will get just as many people as you >did. >They'll certainly get me back. Among others, they are the ones who built >something worth stealing, not you. I have no intention of trying to 'compete' against RASCAR. None, zip, nada. And in fairness to David, he offered the original server when RASCAR started. He was certainly willing to go the extra mile to get the thing off the ground, but I told him to save his money because I had one available. We really *can* let this go now... It's history, and I apologize for stirring it up again. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP 24 Oct 2003 03:17 UTC↳ reply to Goy Larsen #50901

In article <[email hidden]>, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> writes: >> Didn't you make comments about it when you weren't racing? That's fine, >but >> now you're espousing a standard that you yourself didn't follow... Just be >> consistent, man... > >You do know who you're talking to Eldred ? :-) What, is that not going to happen? I might not have liked comments from the peanut gallery, but since it's in a public forum people have the right to comment. But to do it, then tell others NOT to is fucking hypocritical. That's all I'm saying.. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP 24 Oct 2003 03:17 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50899

In article <[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: >When a certain person who acts a lot like you kicked me out >of RASCAR, and made up lies along the way in order to justify it (Bristol >practice), We DIDN'T fucking kick you out! Geez... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP 24 Oct 2003 03:17 UTC↳ reply to Don Wilshe #50900

In article <5bZlb.16371$[email hidden]>, "Don Wilshe" <[email hidden]> writes: >You have never been excluded from RASCAR. The fact you dont race is >because you never could be competitive. Actually, John *was* quite competitive, even after he tore up his arm... >Same reason that Eldred dropped >out cause he couldnt win races and quit instead of tried to get better. Insults? >Door >is always open Mr. Simmons and Eldred. When and if you ever get the talent >bring it >on. Again with the insults? Sure, I know I'm not the fastest driver. Why do you have to rub it in, Don? WTF did I do to YOU? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

David G Fisher 24 Oct 2003 03:53 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #50905

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I don't dislike you. You always seemed like a nice person to me. I didnot > >like the way you let John turn his volunteer position into adictatorship, > >and that you let him kick me out of RASCAR by taking me off the invitelist.

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> >That was complete bullshit. I also didn't like it at all when you said on > >this newsgroup that I dive bombed you. I don't do that. I'm a very safe > >driver. I went six races recently without bringing out a yellow. When I > >finally did, it was becasue of connection problems on my end. It was > >actually nine races before I just plain screwed up and caused a yellow. > >Saying I dive bomb people without anything to back it up really pissed me > >off. > > I allowed people to view the replay and see for themselves. Although

calling > it a dive bomb pass may just be a matter of opinion(I'm not sure that I > actually used that term...), many people agreed that it was overlyaggressive. You more than once said I dive bombed you on multiple occasions. No one else ever accused me of being that type of driver. As I just pointed out, I don't cause yellows. Either I'm the world's greatest dive bomber, or the accusation simply isn't true. BTW, where was this video posted? I never saw it. > >Although you and John kicked me out of RASCAR, I still was fine withhaving > >you on the new server because I do not dislike you. If you dislike me, > >that's fine. > > Um, I never kicked you out of RASCAR. That's a flat out lie. You had aone > race suspension, and that was it. You were still on the invite list, andI > thought that you even ran a race or two AFTER that...? True, John*wanted* me > to kick you out, but I refused to do that. I don't know where you got the > crazy idea that I did. > If I wanted you out totally, why would I have let you run on the RASF1server? > Come on, David...think instead of blindly react. > > Eldred Maybe you missed this entire thread in which John announced to ras that I was out of RASCAR? http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2586212221d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe =UTF-8&selm=MPG.19b25e3a151d1325989a34%40news-server.satx.rr.com Just a few excerpts: "Ya know what Dave, I'm thoroughly fed up with your bull-fuckin-shit (RE: RASCAR - Almost Got Kicked Out of Practice Today). I'm gonna lean on Eldred to kick your cry-baby it-wasn't-my-fault nobody-knows-how-to-drive-but-me ass out of RASCAR. There, you've succeeded in driving right past annoying and into outright pissing me off. Consider yourself off the fucking roster." "Lastly, Dave, I won't be responding to any messages from you, so you may as well just sit back, choke your chicken, and revel in self- serving satisfaction that I lost all sense of control and kicked your lame ass outa RASCAR. Mitch, one more lame-ass word or direct, indirect, or otherwise, about last years's Bristol spring race, and you'll be hot on Dave's heals. I recommend that you also back off on the criticisms of my management style. Either deal with the fact that I'm doing the best I can and for THE GROUP, for get the fuck out." His kicking me off the roster was discussed in other threads. Jan said he'd start another RASCAR with John in charge, and I would continue to be out. You must be the only one who didn't know he'd kicked me out. You gave him full control, and he did it. He also said he tried to do it in the past but you said no. David G Fisher

David G Fisher 24 Oct 2003 03:55 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #50906

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >When a certain person who acts a lot like you kicked me out > >of RASCAR, and made up lies along the way in order to justify it (Bristol > >practice), > > We DIDN'T fucking kick you out! Geez... > > Eldred

Yes, I was. See my other reply to you. I can't believe you are the only one who didn't know he kicked me out. He also kicked Mitch out a day or two later. David G Fisher

Tim 24 Oct 2003 04:49 UTC↳ reply to Don Wilshe #50910

Ask an actor a question and he gives you his credits. -- Tim White "Don Wilshe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0SYlb.16270$[email hidden]... > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > How many races did you race in last year Don? Two, maybe three? > > I ran three (3) and won 2 i believe.. >

Tim 24 Oct 2003 04:50 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #50911

killfile huh make up your mind lol -- Tim White "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NXTlb.5674$[email hidden]... > I really dont understand your issues but go back to your shrink, he can help > you really he can. If not a .22 can solve all your personal problems. > Regardless leave me out of your bizzarro world. > > Plonk, again! > > > "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:APTlb.749$[email hidden]... > > LOL > > > > So, you 'volunteered' to take control of RASCAR by buying your own server. > > Fine. Call it whatever you want but you're playing on words. > > > > Well here's mine ... > > > >

Tim 24 Oct 2003 04:55 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50912

I did moron. >I don't cause yellows unless my connection goes south.< Your arrogance is the sngle most laughable thing on this ng. Everyone causes yellows if they race long enough, only most people are man enough to admit it. -- Tim White "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > No one else > ever accused me of being that type of driver. As I just pointed out, I don't > cause yellows.

Tim 24 Oct 2003 04:58 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50913

Why did it not matter? Seeing how you can't even get along with Eldred it was only a matter of time before he booted your sorry ass lol -- Tim White "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > > No, he's saying it's better because *I'm* not an admin any more. They > > hadn't reckoned on you yanking the use of the server. > > Didn't matter. >

Tim 24 Oct 2003 05:01 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #50914

That wasn't meant for Eldred, John. I know he's had enough :) -- Tim White "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > I'll tell you one thing. You and Fuckup will never, ever get as much respect > > around here as Eldred did. No way. Never. All he has to do is open up his > > server, get John back in it, and they will get just as many people as you did. > > Eldred ain't swinging at that ball - I've tried to get him interested > a few times, and he's pretty much said he ain't gonna do it. That's > too bad too because I have (had) a great connection to his server. :( >

Tim 24 Oct 2003 05:05 UTC↳ reply to Don Wilshe #50915

And you are??? LOLOLOL roflmao At least John drives on tracks that use the brake pedal. You laying down a challenge has to be THE most laughable thing I have read on this ng all year. gd that was funny -- Tim White "Don Wilshe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5bZlb.16371$[email hidden]... The fact you dont race is > because you never could be competitive. Same reason that Eldred dropped > out cause he couldnt win races and quit instead of tried to get better. > Door > is always open Mr. Simmons and Eldred. When and if you ever get the talent > bring it > on. > > Saturday John thats between Sunday and Friday. Bring it on or just > run your mouth in the RAS until you can bring it on the track...

Tim 24 Oct 2003 05:08 UTC↳ reply to Goy Larsen #50917

Kick someone's ass and your a cheater. Where have I heard that before lol -- Tim White "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > I also doubt they want to race with someone like you who threatens to > > wreck people, and has a reputation as a cheater. > > LOL, you've been talking to Wilshe again haven't you > > Here's a piece of advice for you David, most people don't really care > one way or the other about what went on between you and Tim in that > RASCAR race and afterwards, but repeating allegations from Don Wilshe > about Tim White being a cheater makes you look *really* stupid >

Tim 24 Oct 2003 05:12 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #50918

I wasn't trying to goat you into getting your server back up Eldred. I know it may look like that but that was not my intent. I just wanted to express where my loyalties are/were. That's fine that he offered. Nice of him to do that. But you were the one who stuck with it for so long. Don't minimize what you did. Well, you can, but I will ignore it :) -- Tim White "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > And in fairness to David, he offered the original server when RASCAR started. > He was certainly willing to go the extra mile to get the thing off the ground, > but I told him to save his money because I had one available. > We really *can* let this go now... It's history, and I apologize for stirring > it up again. > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Member > Screamers Racing League > IICC League > GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 > ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 > Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress > N2k3 rank:in progress > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Goy Larsen 24 Oct 2003 07:20 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #50920

EldredP wrote: > > What, is that not going to happen? I might not have liked comments from the > peanut gallery, but since it's in a public forum people have the right to > comment. But to do it, then tell others NOT to is fucking hypocritical. > That's all I'm saying.. And I'm just pointing out that you're talking to Don Wilshe :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

John Simmons 24 Oct 2003 10:42 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #50922

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > > We really *can* let this go now... It's history, and I apologize for stirring > it up again. Actully, I think I stirred up the current discussion by correcting an offhand remark by ZZ about why there was a change in RASCAR. I only did that to make sure history was not indavertantly rewritten, kinda like reminding people that Wilshe isn't to be trusted. I'm pretty sure that's when the latest round of crap started.

David G Fisher 24 Oct 2003 11:09 UTC↳ reply to Goy Larsen #50923

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > I also doubt they want to race with someone like you who threatens to > > wreck people, and has a reputation as a cheater. > > LOL, you've been talking to Wilshe again haven't you > > Here's a piece of advice for you David, most people don't really care > one way or the other about what went on between you and Tim in that > RASCAR race and afterwards, but repeating allegations from Don Wilshe > about Tim White being a cheater makes you look *really* stupid

*Really* stupid?? There was only one person that ever thought he cheated? I know that's not true, so who's the *really* stupid one? David G Fisher

David G Fisher 24 Oct 2003 11:13 UTC↳ reply to Tim #50924

He just said last night he never even knew I was kicked off his server by Simmons. Lol. David G Fisher "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Nj2mb.5501$[email hidden]... > Why did it not matter? > Seeing how you can't even get along with Eldred it was only a matter oftime

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> before he booted your sorry ass lol > > -- > Tim White > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > No, he's saying it's better because *I'm* not an admin any more. They > > > hadn't reckoned on you yanking the use of the server. > > > > Didn't matter. > > > >

John Simmons 24 Oct 2003 11:18 UTC↳ reply to Don Wilshe #50925

In article <5bZlb.16371$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > > Me and Eldred started it, but everyone that drove (yes, even Dave and > > Mitch) made it into something worth stealing. > > Nothing was stolen Mr. Simmons. You have always been invited to race. > > You have never been excluded from RASCAR. Yeah, I was, and I'll exmplain as part of the response to the next bit. I'll also try to avoid using big words. > The fact you dont race is because you never could be competitive. Not competitive? If you'll go back and watch the replays, you'll find that I consistently ran in the top-five, even after hurting my left arm. Most of my DNF's were cause by being caught up in other people's accidents, taken out by random damage by the sim itself (and in one of those races I led the most laps and was in the lead under caution with 14 laps to go when the sim decided my motor had blown up), and once by simply losing control on my own (at Vegas on the first lap). Not competitive? I was one of the few drivers that was willing to race side-by-side in an effort to avoid giving up track position. Again, go back and watch the replays, or better yet, ask the other drivers about my ability to hold my line. Winning is nice, but it isn't everything, and doesn't necessarily indicate a driver's got more skill than luck. I was participating because of the competition, not because I thought I was better than everyone (or even anyone) else. The reason I've been "excluded" is for a few reasons: a) If there was any on-track contact between me and Dave or me and Mitch, the accusations would most certainly fly (as they did at Bristol) about the possibility of it being intentional on my part. b) They let you in the league. I refused your application because you're a fraud, and were caught in the act while involved with another league, and because I was around when you were running the IVGA setup scam when NR1 was current. Remember, I originally refused RH's application as well, but I was convinced (by third parties) that he could have changed his ways, but you just keep fucking up, and nobody's ever said anything that would give me pause long enough to change my opinion of you. c) The current ruleset for RASCAR is not aligned with my current belief system where online racing is concerned, thus excluding my participation. Notice, I'm not racing in RASCAR and constantly complaining about the rules. > Same reason that Eldred dropped > out cause he couldnt win races and quit instead of tried to get better. He didn't quit racing until he yanked the server, and he was always interested in getting better. You're an asshole for even stating such a thing. As far as I'm concerned, Eldred's actions and motives are above reproach. > Door is always open Mr. Simmons and Eldred. When and if you ever get the talent > bring it on. I personally would not join a league that allows you to participate. Further, you keep talking about talent and competition. Here's a news flash for you asshole - there are LOTS of people here that have more racing talent than either you or I have. I think Eldreds GPLrank is lower than mine, but since I don't actively follow that stuff, I'm not sure. That indicates to me that he has plenty of talent. You're a waste of carbon...

John Simmons 24 Oct 2003 11:23 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50926

Noooo, he said I wanted him to remove you and Mitch from the invite list, and he wouldn't do it. That was the same weekend that he said "fuck it" and yanked the server. Get your facts straight. In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> He just said last night he never even knew I was kicked off his server by > Simmons. > > Lol. > > David G Fisher > > "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Nj2mb.5501$[email hidden]... > > Why did it not matter? > > Seeing how you can't even get along with Eldred it was only a matter of > time > > before he booted your sorry ass lol > > > > -- > > Tim White > > > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > No, he's saying it's better because *I'm* not an admin any more. They > > > > hadn't reckoned on you yanking the use of the server. > > > > > > Didn't matter. > > > > > > > > > >

John Simmons 24 Oct 2003 11:23 UTC#531268

Noooo, he said I wanted him to remove you and Mitch from the invite list, and he wouldn't do it. That was the same weekend that he said "*** it" and yanked the server. Get your facts straight.

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> He just said last night he never even knew I was kicked off his server by > Simmons. > Lol. > David G Fisher > > Why did it not matter? > > Seeing how you can't even get along with Eldred it was only a matter of > time > > before he booted your sorry ass lol > > -- > > Tim White > > > > No, he's saying it's better because *I'm* not an admin any more. They > > > > hadn't reckoned on you yanking the use of the server. > > > Didn't matter.

David G Fisher 24 Oct 2003 11:51 UTC↳ reply to Tim #50928

So you are making up quotes, putting > < around them, and then replying to those made up quotes? Doesn't surprise me now that people think you cheat. How desperate does someone have to be to do something like that? I never said, "I don't cause yellows unless my connection goes south". You made that line up. You and John go well together. I like how you cut the line where I admitted I "just plain screwed up" and caused a yellow after nine races. Just so we are clear, I rarely cause yellows. Not never. That's pretty much impossible. But it's pretty damn rare that I do.When I say, "I don't cause yellows", that's not meant to be taken literally you idiot. Part of the reason I don't is because I like and respect the other drivers enough that I do my best to not do something careless that could ruin their race (collision), or make their race boring. You say I'm not "man enough to admit it" when I cause a yellow? Here's some facts for you. I did go six races without causing a yellow. When I finally did, it was due to connection problems. I DID, however, post an apology to the RASCAR forum after the race to the guys I had an incident with. I took FULL responsibility, and said I was SORRY. I said the other driver did NOTHING wrong and "held his line perfectly". I also posted a replay so they knew I wasn't being reckless, but actually had trouble judging their car's path due to my connection to the server suddenly being poor for a couple of races. Other drivers said I was blinking out badly in that race at one point. My ping was much higher than it was previously (and is now) for some reason, and was something that could be seen by anyone in the race. It was a few more races before I simply screwed up and caused a yellow. If I cause a yellow, I admit it. BTW, I did a drive through of the pits at a race at Dover (one of those six races) and purposely punished myself by dropping from 5th position to the back of the line just in case there was the *chance* that I was the cause of an incident. It turns out that the other driver had made the mistake and turned into me (Jan agreed with me after reviewing the incident). I have no problem admitting a mistake or even punishing myself for one. You really are a clueless twat. David G Fisher "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gh2mb.5497$[email hidden]... > I did moron. > > >I don't cause yellows unless my connection goes south.< > > Your arrogance is the sngle most laughable thing on this ng. Everyonecauses > yellows if they race long enough, only most people are man enough to admitit.

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> > -- > Tim White > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > No one else > > ever accused me of being that type of driver. As I just pointed out, I

don't > > cause yellows. > >

David G Fisher 24 Oct 2003 12:05 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #50929

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <ulUlb.5855$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > I think it's Tim White Eldred. He and David had issues but he continuesto > > hammer me (for reasons unknown) so he's the sole member of my killfilewhich > > was why I didnt see any original posts. No matter. > > > > Just to set the record straight Tim quit RASCAR on his own. NeitherDavid > > nor I ever so much as mentioned him in any conversation. If he feelsforced > > out of RASCAR then thats something he must deal with on his own cause he > > wasnt forced to do anything he didnt want to that I know of anyway :) > > He quit because Dave is an asshole, and for no other reason. Eldred quit because of me and no other reason? Lol. What a lousy liar you are. He quit because you're mess, and you created a mess in RASCAR. > I was gonna say because he *thought* Dave was an asshole, but since I > can verify that Dave is in fact a walking, talking, breathing > browneye of a human being, I figured that was all the verification > that was required. What you are Simmons is an incredibly insecure, small dicked, loser who's so desperate for power in his life that he felt the need to try and seize complete control of something like RASCAR (a group of guys who simply enjoy getting together once a week to play a racing sim) and act like a damn dictator. Pathetic. Have fun on Saturday. David G Fisher

Gerry Aitken 24 Oct 2003 16:38 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #50845

John Simmons wrote: > For the most part, the rules would be decided on by the admins Chisel them onto stone tablets while God dictates them to you...then kill God. -- Gerry Aitken ...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer. - Book of Cyril, chapter 6, verse 16 This e-mail has been scanned for all known viruses by a fish called Colin.

Jan Verschueren 24 Oct 2003 18:01 UTC↳ reply to Don Wilshe #50852

"Don Wilshe" wrote... > > <snip> > <snip> > You have never been excluded from RASCAR. The fact > you dont race is because you never could be competitive. > Same reason that Eldred dropped out cause he couldnt win > races and quit instead of tried to get better. Hey!! -Don't go calling Eldred's motivation into question. A lesser man in his position would have given up on simracing long ago. You have no hope of equalling the status and "cred" Eldred has among the simracing community, even if you stop trashtalking other drivers right now and spend the rest of you natural life racing. And John is pretty quick too, BTW. <g> Jan. =---

Tim 24 Oct 2003 18:24 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50855

Moron, you said you never bring out a yellow, except the one time your connection was unstable. I didn't make that shit up, you did lol -- Tim White "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > So you are making up quotes, putting > < around them, and then replying to > those made up quotes? Doesn't surprise me now that people think you cheat. > How desperate does someone have to be to do something like that? > > I never said, "I don't cause yellows unless my connection goes south". You > made that line up. You and John go well together. I like how you cut the > line where I admitted I "just plain screwed up" and caused a yellow after > nine races. >

Tim 24 Oct 2003 18:28 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50856

You need glasses. Read the freaking posts idiot. -- Tim White "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > He just said last night he never even knew I was kicked off his server by > Simmons.

Tim 24 Oct 2003 19:07 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50863

The point there, is 'thought', clearly something you are incapable of even off the track. All Goy did was point out that calling me a cheater when you have zero proof is the ONLY thing your lame ass can think of as some dig at me thereby displaying your inabilities to use your own arguments. I never cheated. What I did, WILSHE knew about. He SAID is wasn't cheating, so there. And it was not online racing and it was 8 freaking years ago lol. It is pathetic how you repeatedly bring that lame shit up yet you don't flame wilshe for the stealing of 1000s of setups, AND getting others to help him. Maybe you're the one who wrote that hack, how do we know? You certainly would not be man enough to admit it. In 8 years, wilshe has not one single time apologized, admitted his devious behavior, or even acknowledged any foul intent, to anyone. Not once. He is incapable. It is the single biggest reason he is banned from so many leagues, the reason Papyrus wanted him banned from TEN, and yet, this is the guy you choose to get in bed with. He is in such denial, like you, that being the most unliked, notorious hacker ever busted in sim racing, he still manages to be the first one to stand up and call others cheaters. What does that say about you? It's okay for you to call someone a cheater with no proof but it's not okay when people call you a wrecker? Since you think it was so common place to call me a cheater why don't you name every single person who has called me that, and I will name every single person who thinks you are as worthless as wilshe is. I'll even put it to a public vote. The majority here can permanently ban me, or you and wilshe from RASCAR. If they vote the two of you out, I will come back. I would support whoever runs RASCAR, including Mitch. I will abide by and support whatever the rules are, or will be. I have little respect for Mitch playing a part in forcing Eldred to pull his server, and quitting. But you are the reason I quit RASCAR. I am confident enough of my reputation and what I can offer the community that I am willing to be judged by the majority. For evey person you can find who thinks I cheat, I'll name you 10 who used or asked for setup help, or asked to follow me around a track. How many people ask you that. If you think I am a worthless cheat, and you are better for online racing than I am, put your reputation on this ng. -- Tim White "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > > > I also doubt they want to race with someone like you who threatens to > > > wreck people, and has a reputation as a cheater. > > > > LOL, you've been talking to Wilshe again haven't you > > > > Here's a piece of advice for you David, most people don't really care > > one way or the other about what went on between you and Tim in that > > RASCAR race and afterwards, but repeating allegations from Don Wilshe > > about Tim White being a cheater makes you look *really* stupid > > *Really* stupid?? > > There was only one person that ever thought he cheated? I know that's not > true, so who's the *really* stupid one? > > David G Fisher > >

Tim 24 Oct 2003 19:10 UTC↳ reply to Gerry Aitken #50864

I had to read that 3 or 4 times before I could find the illogic in it. :)) -- Tim White "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Chisel them onto stone tablets while God dictates them to you...then > kill God.

Tim 24 Oct 2003 19:12 UTC↳ reply to Jan Verschueren #50865

And don't wait for wilshe to apologize for that remark either. :( -- Tim White "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4Odmb.104048$[email hidden]... > > Hey!! -Don't go calling Eldred's motivation into question. A lesser man in > his position would have given up on simracing long ago.

Tim 24 Oct 2003 19:15 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50866

Please explain to everyone how you know the size of another man's dick. Please. -- Tim White "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > What you are Simmons is an incredibly insecure, small dicked, loser

Jan Verschueren 24 Oct 2003 20:02 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50868

"David G Fisher" wrote... > > <snip> > You more than once said I dive bombed you on multiple occasions. > No one else ever accused me of being that type of driver. As I > just pointed out, I don't cause yellows. Either I'm the world's > greatest dive bomber, or the accusation simply isn't true. BTW, > where was this video posted? I never saw it. Well, I'll sort of give you that. While I personally have you filed as one of the more opportunistic drivers in RASCAR, I wouldn't go as far as to say dive-bomber. You do have an alarming tendency to overreact to critisism and the suggestion that anything that happens to you on track is actually (partly) your own fault. While an initial defensive reaction is to be expected and perfectly understandable, your persistence in this area is disturbing and, IMO, unhealthy. Ok, Eldred calls you a dive-bomber. Even if he is clearly, objectively wrong, that comment tells you something: your "normal" way of dealing with slower cars unnerves Eldred. It's good to keep that in mind and accordingly if the situation allows (nervous drivers are prone to doing unexpected things, which could really mess up your day), it's bad to keep bringing it up again (and again... and again... <g>).

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> > <snip> > Maybe you missed this entire thread in which John announced > to ras that I was out of RASCAR? > > <link snipped> > > Just a few excerpts: > > "<snip>" > > His kicking me off the roster was discussed in other threads. > Jan said he'd start another RASCAR with John in charge, and I > would continue to be out.

Indeed, let's get two things straight. 1) I was not going to start another RASCAR. I volunteered to fund a server for RASCAR to continue racing on. As John's vision for RASCAR was more in line with mine, I stipulated that if I was going to be paying for it we'd run it John's way. I didn't totally agree with everything John suggested at the time, but if one's going to delegate a job one doesn't have time to do oneself (and running a racing series is a pretty big job), then one has got to accept it's not going to be done exactly how one would do it oneself. I was confident that, over time, I was going to be able to steer John away from some of the more questionable rules/procedures he put forward and that the more regulated approach would pay off in terms of attendance and quality of racing. 2) You were not suspended or banned for anything you did on track. Eldred suspended both of you because you wouldn't let go of the argument after being asked to quit feeding off eachother pending evaluation of the incident. Then instead of taking your lumps (remember what I advised you?) you continued to rant and rave which obviously cast that decision in stone. Any admin would have done the same. It's silly to assume giving an open invite to Eldred despite "what he's done to you" makes you look good. It merely saves you from looking like a complete idiot. <vbseg> As far as kicking you out of RASCAR goes, bottom line is John was appointed to carry out his vision for RASCAR and instead of trying to stay on the inside and affect change through reason and moderate discussion you and Mitch chose the confrontational approach. As I already explained to Mitch I would have handled it differently. I'm confident this is going to work and I can make you see that it works, so I can afford to make some promises to keep you guys happy even if I have no intention whatsoever of deviating from my vision. That would certainly have worked in the short term and it might have taken long enough for the penny to drop for you to have stopped being really uptight about certain aspects of the plan. The Machiavellian approach, you might say. John, on the other hand, is also confident he can make it work and that down the line we will have a healthy series with good races and good attendance, so, in his mind, he can afford to take a few casualties. He doesn't want to have to deal with you in the long run and gives you an opportunity to take yourself out of the equation, which you eagerly take. Problem solved... after a few days the noise dies down and John can get on with business. That would have worked too and, seeing as John was in control, that's the way it happened. The way you and Mitch carried yourselves at the time you'll be hard pressed to find anyone looking at RASCAR from a management point of view to disagree with John's decision to have you removed. Shortly after the situation changed drastically and we independantly came up with a solution to the crisis. Rather than fragment RASCAR I decided to let you have your cake and force you to eat it. Looking at it objectively, I realised it would be far easier for me to adapt to your way of working rather than the other way around(*), so I stepped down. And, yes, regrettably (because you are a talented, clean driver) you would have remained off the roster if I'd pressed on and had started hosting races for RASCAR. That's just basic management. I would have needed John to do the day to day running of the series and therefore I had to support his decisions. Nothing more sinister than that, I assure you. > You must be the only one who didn't know he'd kicked me > out. You gave him full control, and he did it. He also > said he tried to do it in the past but you said no. Well, Eldred did tell me he didn't pay close attention for a few days and, upon his return, noticed a bomb had gone off in his absense (or words to that effect, don't remember exactly... sorry EP). Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a lot of replay reviewing to catch up on (though comprising not as many incidents as last time! ;-)). Jan. =--- (*): and I knew the bulk of the membership would go with whomever hosted the races. Don't be fooled into thinking either side had any more support than those directly involved in the argument at the time.

David G Fisher 24 Oct 2003 20:51 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #50869

You kicked me off the server in your "Attention Dave Fisher" thread. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2586212221d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe =UTF-8&selm=MPG.19b25e3a151d1325989a34%40news-server.satx.rr.com That's a fact. Eldred said yesterday that I was never kicked out of RASCAR. He didn't know what you did apparently. Tim's wrong again. Get your facts straight. David G Fisher "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Noooo, he said I wanted him to remove you and Mitch from the invite > list, and he wouldn't do it. That was the same weekend that he said > "fuck it" and yanked the server. > > Get your facts straight. > > > In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > He just said last night he never even knew I was kicked off his server

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> > Simmons. > > > > Lol. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:Nj2mb.5501$[email hidden]... > > > Why did it not matter? > > > Seeing how you can't even get along with Eldred it was only a matter

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> > time > > > before he booted your sorry ass lol > > > > > > -- > > > Tim White > > > > > > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > No, he's saying it's better because *I'm* not an admin any more.

They

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> > > > > hadn't reckoned on you yanking the use of the server. > > > > > > > > Didn't matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

John Simmons 24 Oct 2003 21:34 UTC↳ reply to Tim #50871

In article <eTemb.2727$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Please explain to everyone how you know the size of another man's dick. > Please. > > Maybe he just assumes that everyone is as pitifully endowed as he is... Disclaimer: There's really no good retort for this without implying that I am equally familiar with the girth of his worth. I would like to state, for the record, that I have never to my knowledge seen Dave, naked or otherwise, nor do I believe the rumors concerning his own severely lacking mass in the area of male genitalia (something to the effect that if he were search for his penis, he'd have to cut his pubic hairs one at a time until he found one that bleeds, and then assume he hit pay dirt). I suppose that some may make sport of him over it, but not me.

John Simmons 24 Oct 2003 21:35 UTC↳ reply to Gerry Aitken #50872

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > John Simmons wrote: > > > For the most part, the rules would be decided on by the admins > > Chisel them onto stone tablets while God dictates them to you...then > kill God. Yes, and then tote them around in a ceremonial gold box, and lay waste to any armies that form against me. :)

Goy Larsen 24 Oct 2003 22:05 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50873

David G Fisher wrote: > > *Really* stupid?? > > There was only one person that ever thought he cheated? I know that's not > true, so who's the *really* stupid one? Back it up and I'll be the stupid one, until then... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

David G Fisher 24 Oct 2003 22:14 UTC↳ reply to Tim #50876

"Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SLemb.2717$[email hidden]... > The point there, is 'thought', clearly something you are incapable of evenoff > the track. > > All Goy did was point out that calling me a cheater when you have zeroproof is > the ONLY thing your lame ass can think of as some dig at me therebydisplaying > your inabilities to use your own arguments. Actually, I didn't call you a cheater. I asked if you were the Tim White that has a reputation as a cheater. Some people do seem to think you cheated at something. I don't know if you're a cheater, I just know about your reputation. I do know your a jerk who blew up over something extremely minor. I did say that you threaten to wreck people. I'm 100% positive you have done that. Anyone who was at that Pocono race or who read your post here at ras where you said you'd wreck me in every race until I was out of RASCAR knows it's 100% true as well. > Since you think it was so common place to call me a cheater why don't youname > every single person who has called me that, I'm not dragging other people's names into your little tirade. I asked a simple question. Are you the Tim White who some people think is a cheater? I know of very few people who have ever been accused of cheating. >and I will name every single person > who thinks you are as worthless as wilshe is. Go right ahead. I'll enjoy that. I know one.....John Simmons. > I'll even put it to a public vote. Do whatever you like. Unlike Simmons, I don't try tell people what they can say, and when and where they can say it. > The majority here can permanently ban me, or you and wilshe from RASCAR.If > they vote the two of you out, I will come back. Hooray! RASCAR drivers are dancing in the streets at the news you want to come back after insulting them on your way out. Here's the deal Timmy. People get banned from RASCAR for breaking the rules on the rules page (no one's been banned yet). >I would support whoever runs > RASCAR, including Mitch. I will abide by and support whatever the rulesare, or > will be. I have little respect for Mitch playing a part in forcing Eldredto > pull his server, and quitting. That's a lie. Mitch didn't paly a part in forcing Eldred to do anything. Also, I find it laughable that you will support Mitch while attempting to get rid of me after stating previously that you would NEVER race on a server which Mitch has a hand in running. He knows your true colors as well as I do. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=Fjv2b.28293 %245H4.947308%40twister.southeast.rr.com You said, "Thank you Mitch. Why would anyone support someone who had nothing to say to them but stop kissing John's ass is beyond me but I certainly will not. I will say this, Unless your able to apologize to at least 3 people you publicly accused of sucking up to John every single time we offered HIM support you can lay claim to the big fish in a small pond all you like and it will never make you anything more than an agitator who grabbed the ball and said it was his. Oh excuse me, OURS, lol. I will never race on a server you admin, won't ever happen. You're antics were absolutely in no way less offensive than anything John said or did. Your ridiculous arguments, flaming, and pompous righteous holier-than-thou attitude, and bravado attempts at claiming you are for the group, while simultaneously changing it's core idea of an open invite policy, simply show just how incapable you are. You don't even deserve the respect of explaining it to you personally since your obviously so incapable of grasping it. You want, YOU, want RASCAR to be just another league, with the same closed doors all the others have. Your version of RASCAR will not only not survive, you will only be remembered as the single person who alienated a decent guy like Eldred who happened to have a good server, and knew what to do with it." > But you are the reason I quit RASCAR. No, you quit in a huff because you were suspended. You never had a single word with me in any RASCAR race until Pocono. I passed you when it looked like you were blocking me. There was no contact. No yellow flag thrown even. You tried to pass me back and hit me. Still, no yellow flag or loss of control of our cars. You then did something nobody else has ever done in 70+ RASCAR races. You threatened to wreck someone. YOu then came here and threatened to wreck me again before I had said a word. You just went nuts like the nutty little nut sack you are. You were suspended for one race, and decided to quit in protest. You also insulted the other RASCAR drivers on your way out. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl965498697d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe= UTF-8&selm=8%25TUa.293266%24_w.11644602%40twister.southeast.rr.com You said, "LOL You say threats mean something, John says they don't :) You guys might want to have a talk next time before you make a decision like that since it's cost you one driver for good. I hate to do this too Eldred but considering RASCAR has no rules, I would think the whole point of racing here is what happens ON the track, not in a ng. I did nothing wrong imho. So I don't accept your one race suspension. A supposedly experienced racer makes a stupid move forcing me out of his way for whatever reason his decides, makes no apologies, I get upset and tell him I'll remember it, and we hash it out here. And that upsets you, fine. If it matters, I think your wrong, but it's your league. You manage it the best way you decide, I have no problem with that. Please just understand if I decide how much that matters to me. I was not overly aggresive. If you'll check, I was running that restart pretty much exactly the way I did the others, and the same way I would've ran the rest. Try entering T1 at Pocono, in traffic, going 140+mph with that setup and then shift, with the rpms so low. If you think I was aggressive there I have to take from that you probably don't like any of my driving. And there's certainly no reason for me to have to agree with you. Racing here on Saturday has never been a highlight of my week. It has been really great racing way too infrequently and there is no sign of improvement. Has anyone really, honestly, significantly improved as a direct result of racing with RASCAR? I'm sure there probably has, but I wasn't one of them. So I'm out, thanks for hosting." > I am confident enough of my reputation and what I can offer the communitythat I > am willing to be judged by the majority. For evey person you can find who > thinks I cheat, I'll name you 10 who used or asked for setup help, orasked to > follow me around a track. How many people ask you that. > > If you think I am a worthless cheat, and you are better for online racingthan I > am, put your reputation on this ng. People have often asked me for setups and replays. But you're the best. You're wonderful. Do what you like because it won't matter to me a bit. I'll enjoy your little poll. As long as I never threaten to wreck people or am accused of being a cheat, I'll be happy. I'll still be running in RASCAR just like I have been since the first race (after I came up with the idea which started everything). Bye Timmy. David G Fisher

Tim 24 Oct 2003 22:15 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #50877

lol -- Tim White "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Disclaimer: There's really no good retort for this without implying > that I am equally familiar with the girth of his worth. I would like > to state, for the record, that I have never to my knowledge seen > Dave, naked or otherwise, nor do I believe the rumors concerning his > own severely lacking mass in the area of male genitalia (something to > the effect that if he were search for his penis, he'd have to cut his > pubic hairs one at a time until he found one that bleeds, and then > assume he hit pay dirt). I suppose that some may make sport of him > over it, but not me.

Tim 24 Oct 2003 22:21 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50879

God you are an idiot! lolol The FACT is, you child, I said Eldred would have eventually kicked you off the RASCAR server if you and Mitch hadn't caused him to pull it. The RASCAR server. John kicked you off his practice server. Slight difference. lol -- Tim White "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > That's a fact. Eldred said yesterday that I was never kicked out of RASCAR. > He didn't know what you did apparently. > > Tim's wrong again. > > Get your facts straight. > > David G Fisher > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Noooo, he said I wanted him to remove you and Mitch from the invite > > list, and he wouldn't do it. That was the same weekend that he said > > "fuck it" and yanked the server. > > > > Get your facts straight. > > > > > > In article <[email hidden]>, > > [email hidden] says... > > > He just said last night he never even knew I was kicked off his server > by > > > Simmons. > > > > > > Lol. > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:Nj2mb.5501$[email hidden]... > > > > Why did it not matter? > > > > Seeing how you can't even get along with Eldred it was only a matter > of > > > time > > > > before he booted your sorry ass lol > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Tim White > > > > > > > > > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > No, he's saying it's better because *I'm* not an admin any more. > They > > > > > > hadn't reckoned on you yanking the use of the server. > > > > > > > > > > Didn't matter.

Tim 24 Oct 2003 22:35 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50880

I don't see anywhere in this post where your willing to let the public decide on our reputations. Anything else you have to say means squat if you can't stand up on your own merits. What I 'blew' up over was your arrogance stating you dive bombed me simply because no one nowhere was ever going to cut you off, when in fact you were not the reason I moved over. The guy in front of me was. That's what everyone else saw but you. That's what the replay showed. You never ever acknowledge that you may have misread why I moved over. Sure I blasted you for making such a stupid move but you're just further validating it by inflicting us with your arrogance that the whole incident was about you not getting bullied on the track. Either way, you trying claim an innocence in someone else calling me a cheater and you just pointing it out has pussy written all over it. Certainly a Really lame attempt to try to slam me, and just proves my point about you. The problems Mitch and I have are solvable. You and I are history. -- Tim White "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:SLemb.2717$[email hidden]... > > The point there, is 'thought', clearly something you are incapable of even > off > > the track. > > > > All Goy did was point out that calling me a cheater when you have zero > proof is > > the ONLY thing your lame ass can think of as some dig at me thereby > displaying > > your inabilities to use your own arguments. > > Actually, I didn't call you a cheater. I asked if you were the Tim White > that has a reputation as a cheater. Some people do seem to think you cheated > at something. I don't know if you're a cheater, I just know about your > reputation. I do know your a jerk who blew up over something extremely > minor. > > I did say that you threaten to wreck people. I'm 100% positive you have done > that. Anyone who was at that Pocono race or who read your post here at ras > where you said you'd wreck me in every race until I was out of RASCAR knows > it's 100% true as well. > > > Since you think it was so common place to call me a cheater why don't you > name > > every single person who has called me that, > > I'm not dragging other people's names into your little tirade. I asked a > simple question. Are you the Tim White who some people think is a cheater? I > know of very few people who have ever been accused of cheating. > > >and I will name every single person > > who thinks you are as worthless as wilshe is. > > Go right ahead. I'll enjoy that. I know one.....John Simmons. > > > I'll even put it to a public vote. > > Do whatever you like. Unlike Simmons, I don't try tell people what they can > say, and when and where they can say it. > > > The majority here can permanently ban me, or you and wilshe from RASCAR. > If > > they vote the two of you out, I will come back. > > Hooray! RASCAR drivers are dancing in the streets at the news you want to > come back after insulting them on your way out. Here's the deal Timmy. > People get banned from RASCAR for breaking the rules on the rules page (no > one's been banned yet). > > >I would support whoever runs > > RASCAR, including Mitch. I will abide by and support whatever the rules > are, or > > will be. I have little respect for Mitch playing a part in forcing Eldred > to > > pull his server, and quitting. > > That's a lie. Mitch didn't paly a part in forcing Eldred to do anything. > Also, I find it laughable that you will support Mitch while attempting to > get rid of me after stating previously that you would NEVER race on a server > which Mitch has a hand in running. He knows your true colors as well as I > do. > > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=Fjv2b.28293 > %245H4.947308%40twister.southeast.rr.com > > You said, > > "Thank you Mitch. > > Why would anyone support someone who had nothing to say to them but stop > kissing > John's ass is beyond me but I certainly will not. > > I will say this, > > Unless your able to apologize to at least 3 people you publicly accused of > sucking up to John every single time we offered HIM support you can lay > claim to > the big fish in a small pond all you like and it will never make you > anything > more than an agitator who grabbed the ball and said it was his. Oh excuse > me, > OURS, lol. > > I will never race on a server you admin, won't ever happen. You're antics > were > absolutely in no way less offensive than anything John said or did. Your > ridiculous arguments, flaming, and pompous righteous holier-than-thou > attitude, > and bravado attempts at claiming you are for the group, while simultaneously > changing it's core idea of an open invite policy, simply show just how > incapable > you are. > > You don't even deserve the respect of explaining it to you personally since > your > obviously so incapable of grasping it. > > You want, YOU, want RASCAR to be just another league, with the same closed > doors > all the others have. Your version of RASCAR will not only not survive, you > will > only be remembered as the single person who alienated a decent guy like > Eldred > who happened to have a good server, and knew what to do with it." > > > > But you are the reason I quit RASCAR. > > No, you quit in a huff because you were suspended. You never had a single > word with me in any RASCAR race until Pocono. I passed you when it looked > like you were blocking me. There was no contact. No yellow flag thrown even. > You tried to pass me back and hit me. Still, no yellow flag or loss of > control of our cars. You then did something nobody else has ever done in 70+ > RASCAR races. You threatened to wreck someone. YOu then came here and > threatened to wreck me again before I had said a word. You just went nuts > like the nutty little nut sack you are. You were suspended for one race, and > decided to quit in protest. You also insulted the other RASCAR drivers on > your way out. > > http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl965498697d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe= > UTF-8&selm=8%25TUa.293266%24_w.11644602%40twister.southeast.rr.com > > You said, > > "LOL > > You say threats mean something, John says they don't :) > > You guys might want to have a talk next time before you make a decision like > that since it's cost you one driver for good. I hate to do this too Eldred > but > considering RASCAR has no rules, I would think the whole point of racing > here is > what happens ON the track, not in a ng. > > I did nothing wrong imho. So I don't accept your one race suspension. A > supposedly experienced racer makes a stupid move forcing me out of his way > for > whatever reason his decides, makes no apologies, I get upset and tell him > I'll > remember it, and we hash it out here. > > And that upsets you, fine. > > If it matters, I think your wrong, but it's your league. You manage it the > best > way you decide, I have no problem with that. > > Please just understand if I decide how much that matters to me. I was not > overly aggresive. If you'll check, I was running that restart pretty much > exactly the way I did the others, and the same way I would've ran the rest. > Try > entering T1 at Pocono, in traffic, going 140+mph with that setup and then > shift, > with the rpms so low. If you think I was aggressive there I have to take > from > that you probably don't like any of my driving. > > And there's certainly no reason for me to have to agree with you. Racing > here > on Saturday has never been a highlight of my week. It has been really great > racing way too infrequently and there is no sign of improvement. Has anyone > really, honestly, significantly improved as a direct result of racing with > RASCAR? > > I'm sure there probably has, but I wasn't one of them. > > So I'm out, thanks for hosting." > > > I am confident enough of my reputation and what I can offer the community > that I > > am willing to be judged by the majority. For evey person you can find who > > thinks I cheat, I'll name you 10 who used or asked for setup help, or > asked to > > follow me around a track. How many people ask you that. > > > > If you think I am a worthless cheat, and you are better for online racing > than I > > am, put your reputation on this ng. > > People have often asked me for setups and replays. But you're the best. > You're wonderful. Do what you like because it won't matter to me a bit. I'll > enjoy your little poll. As long as I never threaten to wreck people or am > accused of being a cheat, I'll be happy. I'll still be running in RASCAR > just like I have been since the first race (after I came up with the idea > which started everything). > > Bye Timmy. > > David G Fisher > >

Mitch_A 24 Oct 2003 22:39 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50881

I missed htis post previously Dave. What can I say to any of that, heh? I guess I won't bother asking for a personal explanation <vbg>. Im glad Ive been clued in to RASCAR's closed door policies though. I wonder why I wasnt informed of this previously? <vbseg>. Do you hear what he said Eldred? I've ALIENated you :) All the laps you turned in practice trying to become an "Alien" and all you needed was me :-) I alienate thee Saint Eldred, hehe. (sword on shoulders). Mitch "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (24 lines)

> > "Thank you Mitch. > > Why would anyone support someone who had nothing to say to them but stop > kissing > John's ass is beyond me but I certainly will not. > > I will say this, > > Unless your able to apologize to at least 3 people you publicly accused of > sucking up to John every single time we offered HIM support you can lay > claim to > the big fish in a small pond all you like and it will never make you > anything > more than an agitator who grabbed the ball and said it was his. Oh excuse > me, > OURS, lol. > > I will never race on a server you admin, won't ever happen. You're antics > were > absolutely in no way less offensive than anything John said or did. Your > ridiculous arguments, flaming, and pompous righteous holier-than-thou > attitude, > and bravado attempts at claiming you are for the group, while

simultaneously > changing it's core idea of an open invite policy, simply show just how > incapable > you are. > > You don't even deserve the respect of explaining it to you personallysince > your > obviously so incapable of grasping it. > > You want, YOU, want RASCAR to be just another league, with the same closed > doors > all the others have. Your version of RASCAR will not only not survive,you > will > only be remembered as the single person who alienated a decent guy like > Eldred > who happened to have a good server, and knew what to do with it." > >

Tim 24 Oct 2003 22:53 UTC↳ reply to Jan Verschueren #50882

I agree. Everyone had doubts over some issue. When you have an established league with such a varied amount of skill that will not go away. For me there were two. 1) My biggest one was with Robert. To turn that one around into something positive was all on John's shoulders, and he did the right thing. And he did it fairly quickly. That reminded me how important it was to have a guy running things who had thick skin :) Say what you want about what RASCAR is now, but that clearly is not the present case. 2) The other was how graceful Eldred was in accepting my apologies for causing such a stir at Pocono and refusing to accept me quitting. We all make mistakes, unless your initials are dgf. Having someone like Eldred around to remain calm in the middle of a fire fight is what being a 'volunteer' is all about. I've been in leagues where the biggest hotheads were the admins. Never works. With John, there was Eldred. We got the good cop bad cop deal, and no one can deny they busted their asses to try to get things right. You can like what Mitch and Fishup are doing but neither of them are exactly calm people :) -- Tim White "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zzfmb.104500$[email hidden]... > I didn't totally agree with everything John suggested at > the time, but if one's going to delegate a job one doesn't have time to do > oneself (and running a racing series is a pretty big job), then one has got > to accept it's not going to be done exactly how one would do it oneself.

Richard "ZZ" Busch 24 Oct 2003 22:59 UTC↳ reply to Jan Verschueren #50883

I would just like to say, I think Jan has posted the most intelligent and thoughtful posts regarding this RASCAR thing. I, for one, am glad he hasn't jumped ship. He has a sane and well balanced view. I think anything that happens in RASCAR should be run by him just for his thoughts and sanity. I would also like to say, that I never thought my tickling the underbelly of RASCAR would set this off again. Although, the people I expected to whine did. There I go tickling again. ;-) -- Richard "ZZ" Busch Member: Screamers Racing League OAO CORS MARA TransAm RASCAR GPL Rank + 17.415 MoGPL Rank + 318.586 N2002 Rank + 7.695 TransAm Rank ??

David G Fisher 24 Oct 2003 23:01 UTC↳ reply to Tim #50884

Keep trying. Someday you'll get something right. John kicked me out of RASCAR. Right before that, John threatened to kick me off a server he supplied for the Bristol race when Eldred's server wasn't working. John was then exposed (through replays) as being a punk. No one here at ras who looked at the replays or heard about what he said and did agreed with his actions. That nonsense by him was the last bit of crap I would take. He then decided to abuse his *volunteer* position and take me off the invite list to Eldred's server (as he informed me and everyone else here at ras in the Attention Dave Fisher" thread. Eldred informed me yesterday he never knew John did that. You've been wrong about almost everything. Got it now, or do I need to say it sloooooower for you? Bet you don't respond to this post because of how dumb you look right now. David G Fisher "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oBhmb.3124$[email hidden]... > God you are an idiot! lolol > > The FACT is, you child, I said Eldred would have eventually kicked you offthe > RASCAR server if you and Mitch hadn't caused him to pull it. The RASCARserver.

Quoted text (14 lines)

> > John kicked you off his practice server. > > Slight difference. > > lol > > -- > Tim White > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > That's a fact. Eldred said yesterday that I was never kicked out of

RASCAR.

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> > He didn't know what you did apparently. > > > > Tim's wrong again. > > > > Get your facts straight. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Noooo, he said I wanted him to remove you and Mitch from the invite > > > list, and he wouldn't do it. That was the same weekend that he said > > > "fuck it" and yanked the server. > > > > > > Get your facts straight. > > > > > > > > > In article <[email hidden]>, > > > [email hidden] says... > > > > He just said last night he never even knew I was kicked off his

server

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > by > > > > Simmons. > > > > > > > > Lol. > > > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > > > "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:Nj2mb.5501$[email hidden]... > > > > > Why did it not matter? > > > > > Seeing how you can't even get along with Eldred it was only a

matter

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > of > > > > time > > > > > before he booted your sorry ass lol > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Tim White > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, he's saying it's better because *I'm* not an admin any

more. > > They > > > > > > > hadn't reckoned on you yanking the use of the server. > > > > > > > > > > > > Didn't matter. > >

Richard "ZZ" Busch 24 Oct 2003 23:02 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #50886

John Retorted: Disclaimer: There's really no good retort for this without implying that I am equally familiar with the girth of his worth. I would like to state, for the record, that I have never to my knowledge seen Dave, naked or otherwise, nor do I believe the rumors concerning his own severely lacking mass in the area of male genitalia (something to the effect that if he were search for his penis, he'd have to cut his pubic hairs one at a time until he found one that bleeds, and then assume he hit pay dirt). I suppose that some may make sport of him over it, but not me. ----------------------------- ROFLMAO. An instant classic. -- Richard "ZZ" Busch Member: Screamers Racing League OAO CORS MARA TransAm RASCAR GPL Rank + 17.415 MoGPL Rank + 318.586 N2002 Rank + 7.695 TransAm Rank ??

David G Fisher 24 Oct 2003 23:07 UTC↳ reply to Tim #50887

"Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:LOhmb.3164$[email hidden]... > I don't see anywhere in this post where your willing to let the publicdecide on > our reputations. I said "go right ahead" once and "do what you like" twice. Timmy can't read? I'll enjoy it all. Won't make a bit of difference to me. > The problems Mitch and I have are solvable. You and I are history. Oh no. David G Fisher

McWhom 24 Oct 2003 23:11 UTC↳ reply to Jan Verschueren #50739

<Big ol' snip> > > 1) I was not going to start another RASCAR. I volunteered to fund a server > for RASCAR to continue racing on. As John's vision for RASCAR was more in > line with mine, I stipulated that if I was going to be paying for it we'd > run it John's way. I didn't totally agree with everything John suggestedat > the time, but if one's going to delegate a job one doesn't have time to do > oneself (and running a racing series is a pretty big job), then one hasgot > to accept it's not going to be done exactly how one would do it oneself. I > was confident that, over time, I was going to be able to steer John away > from some of the more questionable rules/procedures he put forward andthat > the more regulated approach would pay off in terms of attendance andquality > of racing. > Jan, did you get out your junior college lawyer textbook for that?? :-) Sean <another Big ol' snip>

Tim 24 Oct 2003 23:15 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50740

John kicked you off the server not out of RASCAR. John then removed you from the invite list, unknowing to Eldred. Eldred then pulled his server. That was all in one week. You were not kicked out since Eldred did not stick around long enough to resolve it. You can lie to yourself that you were out of RASCAR for good but really you just like the way it sounds more than it being actually consistent with what was really happening at the time. Convenient. But SAY you were ... Your reaction was to bully your way into control by buying server time for an already established user base. How wuss is that? What does that cost, like $50 a month? lol And you still cannot offer your reputation up to the public. chickenshit -- Tim White "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Keep trying. Someday you'll get something right. > > John kicked me out of RASCAR. > > Right before that, John threatened to kick me off a server he supplied for > the Bristol race when Eldred's server wasn't working. John was then exposed > (through replays) as being a punk. No one here at ras who looked at the > replays or heard about what he said and did agreed with his actions. That > nonsense by him was the last bit of crap I would take. He then decided to > abuse his *volunteer* position and take me off the invite list to Eldred's > server (as he informed me and everyone else here at ras in the Attention > Dave Fisher" thread. Eldred informed me yesterday he never knew John did > that. > > You've been wrong about almost everything. > > Got it now, or do I need to say it sloooooower for you? > > Bet you don't respond to this post because of how dumb you look right now. > > David G Fisher

Tim 24 Oct 2003 23:18 UTC↳ reply to Richard "ZZ" Busch #50743

You know, you're getting pretty good at that lol Maybe it's just me, but Jan's just going to wait until the current regime self destructs then make another offer. Remind me to never piss off Jan :)))) -- Tim White "ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:s7imb.7312$[email hidden]... > > I would also like to say, that I never thought my tickling the underbelly of > RASCAR would set this off again. > Although, the people I expected to whine did. > > There I go tickling again. ;-)

McWhom 24 Oct 2003 23:20 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50741

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Keep trying. Someday you'll get something right. > > John kicked me out of RASCAR. > > Right before that, John threatened to kick me off a server he supplied for > the Bristol race when Eldred's server wasn't working. John was thenexposed > (through replays) as being a punk. No one here at ras who looked at the > replays or heard about what he said and did agreed with his actions. That > nonsense by him was the last bit of crap I would take. <snip lots of crap> As I recall Dave, the consensus was pretty non-comittal. Several people saw it each way and I believe that just about everyone of them conceded that it could have been either of you at fault and both of you had the power to avoid the situation. Consensus being that you guys were fighting and carried it onto the track by neither of you being willing to give an inch to the other. Sean

Tim 24 Oct 2003 23:37 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50744

LOLOLOL Fuckup that you are you can't even grasp what is pissing me off right now. I put up that if anyone wants to vote on you and wilshe, or me, than I'm up for it. All you're able to mumble is for me to go ahead and put up a vote? Why would I put up the vote. I know this is all over your head but my point was to respond to you implying I cheat by making it clear to anyone that would listen I was confident enough that the average Joe would rather have me around than you and wilshe. What you cannot grasp, most likely cause you suck so bad who would want your help on a track, is that reputations online are as difficult to build as they are easy to destroy. As far as online racing goes you could label someone anything you like, but when you cast someone as a cheater you are attempting the worst damage you can inflict. That makes you scum of the earth. Real weasle slime stuff. It may mean nothing to you but it does to me. I'll put it in a way your motivation can understand. It's like saying since I can't race on RASCAR I'll buy my own server time and steal it rather than try to work from within. Since you have no reputation that's probably all world to a sorry case like you. -- Tim White "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:LOhmb.3164$[email hidden]... > > I don't see anywhere in this post where your willing to let the public > decide on > > our reputations. > > I said "go right ahead" once and "do what you like" twice. Timmy can't read? > > I'll enjoy it all. Won't make a bit of difference to me. > > > The problems Mitch and I have are solvable. You and I are history. > > Oh no. > > David G Fisher > >

Mitch_A 24 Oct 2003 23:56 UTC↳ reply to Jan Verschueren #50745

Without going into the details again Jan you do have a few things right on and a few things clearly slanted towards your political view on the entire situation. I wouldnt say what youre saying is purely unbiased or the responses would have been from a broader spectrum. We disagree about the semantics, SO WHAT? Do I HATE you because of a disagreement? No way man. Its all about the racing and youre a smart racer whom I truly enjoy racing :) If a few key guys would just swallow their pride and get over it already or come back racing we wouldnt still be having this discussion quarterly. This really is a no win situation for RASCAR in the long run. We ALL know how each other feels about this whole thing so why keep re-hashing it? What we have now doesnt EXCLUDE anyone. Those that wish to participate do those that dont won't, simple as that. We've done everything we can to get as many involved as possible. We've changed little in RASCAR and what changes were implemented were decided on within the committee. If you remember correctly we did WANT you Jan to be the mouthpeice for RASCAR (Like Im now doing and not having any fun in doing) If guys continue to tear RASCAR apart from the inside then we really don't have a chance. If you don't want to be involved in RASCAR fine but quit FN bitchin (not directed at you personally) about what RASCAR was and help make changes you want instead. The continuation of this thread is nothing more than a single guy trolling for reactions from me. He got it and what did it accomplish? Not cool imo but Im not going to throw HIM out of RASCAR now am I? I don't know why you don't understand the correlation I'm making because it seems so claer to me. Mitch "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zzfmb.104500 > John, on the other hand, is also confident he can make it work and thatdown > the line we will have a healthy series with good races and goodattendance, > so, in his mind, he can afford to take a few casualties. He doesn't wantto > have to deal with you in the long run and gives you an opportunity to take > yourself out of the equation, which you eagerly take. Problem solved... > after a few days the noise dies down and John can get on with business.That > would have worked too and, seeing as John was in control, that's the wayit > happened. > > The way you and Mitch carried yourselves at the time you'll be hardpressed > to find anyone looking at RASCAR from a management point of view todisagree > with John's decision to have you removed. > > Shortly after the situation changed drastically and we independantly cameup > with a solution to the crisis. Rather than fragment RASCAR I decided tolet > you have your cake and force you to eat it. Looking at it objectively, I > realised it would be far easier for me to adapt to your way of working > rather than the other way around(*), so I stepped down. > > And, yes, regrettably (because you are a talented, clean driver) you would > have remained off the roster if I'd pressed on and had started hostingraces > for RASCAR. That's just basic management. I would have needed John to dothe

Quoted text (17 lines)

> day to day running of the series and therefore I had to support his > decisions. Nothing more sinister than that, I assure you. > > > You must be the only one who didn't know he'd kicked me > > out. You gave him full control, and he did it. He also > > said he tried to do it in the past but you said no. > > Well, Eldred did tell me he didn't pay close attention for a few days and, > upon his return, noticed a bomb had gone off in his absense (or words to > that effect, don't remember exactly... sorry EP). > > Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a lot of replay reviewing to catch up on > (though comprising not as many incidents as last time! ;-)). > > Jan. > =--- > (*): and I knew the bulk of the membership would go with whomever hosted

the > races. Don't be fooled into thinking either side had any more support than > those directly involved in the argument at the time. > >

John Simmons 25 Oct 2003 00:05 UTC↳ reply to Tim #50746

In article <boimb.3271$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > John kicked you off the server not out of RASCAR. > John then removed you from the invite list, unknowing to Eldred. > Eldred then pulled his server. Actually, I sent an email asking Eldred to remove him and Mitch from the invite list before the Bristol race. They were not removed from the invite list (I think Eldred didn't see the email in time). Instead, Eldred killed the server altogether and washed his hands of the whole thing after the Bristol race. Technically, they were never kicked out of RASCAR, but I had made a formal request to make it happen.

elrikk 25 Oct 2003 00:21 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #50747

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (19 lines)

> In article <eTemb.2727$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > Please explain to everyone how you know the size of another man's dick. > > Please. > > > > > > Maybe he just assumes that everyone is as pitifully endowed as he > is... > > Disclaimer: There's really no good retort for this without implying > that I am equally familiar with the girth of his worth. I would like > to state, for the record, that I have never to my knowledge seen > Dave, naked or otherwise, nor do I believe the rumors concerning his > own severely lacking mass in the area of male genitalia (something to > the effect that if he were search for his penis, he'd have to cut his > pubic hairs one at a time until he found one that bleeds, and then > assume he hit pay dirt). I suppose that some may make sport of him > over it, but not me.

LOL. There you go again John. Always taking the high road. ;o) Elrikk

EldredP 25 Oct 2003 01:11 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50749

In article <[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: >He just said last night he never even knew I was kicked off his server by >Simmons. Think about that. How could John kick you off MY server?!? Impossible... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP 25 Oct 2003 01:11 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50750

In article <[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: >You more than once said I dive bombed you on multiple occasions. No one else >ever accused me of being that type of driver. As I just pointed out, I don't >cause yellows. Either I'm the world's greatest dive bomber, or the >accusation simply isn't true. BTW, where was this video posted? I never saw >it. > I only said it once, after an incident with you. You made what *I* thought was an overly aggressive move that sent me into the wall. The video was just the standard race replay. Some agreed with me, others didn't - So I didn't even worry about it. It didn't matter much in the grand scheme of things. Truthfully, I'd forgotten all about it until you brought it up again.

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> >http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2586212221d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe >=UTF-8&selm=MPG.19b25e3a151d1325989a34%40news-server.satx.rr.com > >Just a few excerpts: > >"Ya know what Dave, I'm thoroughly fed up with your bull-fuckin-shit >(RE: RASCAR - Almost Got Kicked Out of Practice Today). > >I'm gonna lean on Eldred to kick your cry-baby it-wasn't-my-fault >nobody-knows-how-to-drive-but-me ass out of RASCAR. There, you've >succeeded in driving right past annoying and into outright pissing me >off. Consider yourself off the fucking roster."

Did you ever hear ME confirm that statement?!? No - because it never happened. I didn't have a reason to kick you out, so I wasn't going to do it no matter WHAT John said. The server belonged to me, I gave Mitch and Jan the invite list straight off the server - ask them if you were on it...

Quoted text (10 lines)

>"Lastly, Dave, I won't be responding to any messages from you, so you >may as well just sit back, choke your chicken, and revel in self- >serving satisfaction that I lost all sense of control and kicked your >lame ass outa RASCAR. > >Mitch, one more lame-ass word or direct, indirect, or otherwise, >about last years's Bristol spring race, and you'll be hot on Dave's >heals. I recommend that you also back off on the criticisms of my >management style. Either deal with the fact that I'm doing the best I >can and for THE GROUP, for get the fuck out."

He also wanted Mitch out. Did I kick him out? No - same reason. If I was going to get rid of someone for an incident that involved me, why wouldn't I have booted Sean? I was a *lot* more pissed off at THAT incident - so mad I left the race. And again - if I was so dead set on not racing with/against you, why the hell would I let you race in RASF1?!? >His kicking me off the roster was discussed in other threads. Jan said he'd >start another RASCAR with John in charge, and I would continue to be out. >You must be the only one who didn't know he'd kicked me out. You gave him >full control, and he did it. He also said he tried to do it in the past but >you said no. No, I did NOT give him *full* control. I vetoed several rules he wanted to add. I also vetoed him kicking you and Mitch out of RASCAR. I don't give a shit WHAT he said. I'm also starting not to give a shit what you say, because you don't seem to see things for what they are. I know I didn't kick you, Mitch and Jan know I didn't kick you. Hell, even John knows I didn't kick you. You must be the only one who didn't know I hadn't kicked you out... Geez, David - what's the chip on _your_ shoulder for? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP 25 Oct 2003 01:23 UTC↳ reply to Jan Verschueren #50752

>You have no hope of equalling the status and "cred" Eldred has among the >simracing community, I'm not trying to GET any status(or even "cred"). I just want to help the community. I can't make setups, I can't give driving tips, I don't know how to create tracks, car sounds, or extra graphics. I can't even give tips on optimizing frame rate in the sims we love. I provide servers to leagues and groups - that doesn't require anything but a spare machine. As much assistance(and fun) as I've gotten here over the years, it's the *least* I can do. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP 25 Oct 2003 01:38 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50756

>You kicked me off the server in your "Attention Dave Fisher" thread. >http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2586212221d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe >=UTF-8&selm=MPG.19b25e3a151d1325989a34%40news-server.satx.rr.com Is THIS what you've been bitching about?!? Ah, *now* I get it...you're confused. John was running a practice server. You guys had a incident(or three), then had words, and he kicked you off. Fact - that was HIS server, not mine. I have no control over how he runs HIS machine, or who he does or does not allow to race. That's between you and him - it's none of my damn business. But I *did* tell him that I thought he over-reacted... >That's a fact. Eldred said yesterday that I was never kicked out of RASCAR. >He didn't know what you did apparently. Sure, I knew about it. It was another in a long line of blow-ups between various drivers. It was also an incident totally removed from RASCAR, except the fact that John named the server RASCAR so that the drivers could find it and practice. That personal incident between you two had nothing to do with the server I ran. It was an unofficial practice on an unofficial server. I'll say it YET again - I *never* had any intention of dropping you OR Mitch from RASCAR. Got it now??? You owe me an apology, David. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP 25 Oct 2003 01:44 UTC↳ reply to Tim #50758

>John kicked you off the server not out of RASCAR. >John then removed you from the invite list, unknowing to Eldred. >Eldred then pulled his server. Fact #1 - John kicked him off HIS server, not mine. Fact #2 - He also *wanted* to remove David and Mitch from RASCAR, but he lost that argument. Can we get those two facts straight, please? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP 25 Oct 2003 02:06 UTC↳ reply to Tim #50759

In article <3Jimb.3326$[email hidden]>, "Tim" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (10 lines)

>That makes you scum of the earth. Real weasle slime stuff. > >It may mean nothing to you but it does to me. I'll put it in a way your >motivation can understand. It's like saying since I can't race on RASCAR >I'll >buy my own server time and steal it rather than try to work from within. > >Since you have no reputation that's probably all world to a sorry case like >you. >

[end of Act II] <applause> * * * * * * * * INTERMISSION * * * * * * * * (Smoke 'em if ya GOT 'em - please remember to tip the barmaids and waitstaff) {Act III will be starting shortly...] -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

David G Fisher 25 Oct 2003 02:10 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #50763

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (13 lines)

> In article <[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" > <[email hidden]> writes: > >Just a few excerpts: > > > >"Ya know what Dave, I'm thoroughly fed up with your bull-fuckin-shit > >(RE: RASCAR - Almost Got Kicked Out of Practice Today). > > > >I'm gonna lean on Eldred to kick your cry-baby it-wasn't-my-fault > >nobody-knows-how-to-drive-but-me ass out of RASCAR. There, you've > >succeeded in driving right past annoying and into outright pissing me > >off. Consider yourself off the fucking roster." > > Did you ever hear ME confirm that statement?!? No - because it never

happened. > I didn't have a reason to kick you out, so I wasn't going to do it nomatter > WHAT John said. The server belonged to me, I gave Mitch and Jan theinvite > list straight off the server - ask them if you were on it... John was running things. He posted the above to ras saying I was out. You never, until TODAY, almost two months later, said that you wouldn't of let him. He said I was out. He was telling everyone that he was in charge that it was his way or the highway (which some people chose to take). I can't read minds from halfway across the country. Mitch, Jan, and I, along with everyone else, thought I was out. Jan even said he would rent a server, put John back in charge, and RASCAR would continue without me. He said it at the RASCAR forum.

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> >"Lastly, Dave, I won't be responding to any messages from you, so you > >may as well just sit back, choke your chicken, and revel in self- > >serving satisfaction that I lost all sense of control and kicked your > >lame ass outa RASCAR. > > > >Mitch, one more lame-ass word or direct, indirect, or otherwise, > >about last years's Bristol spring race, and you'll be hot on Dave's > >heals. I recommend that you also back off on the criticisms of my > >management style. Either deal with the fact that I'm doing the best I > >can and for THE GROUP, for get the fuck out." > > He also wanted Mitch out. Did I kick him out? No - same reason.

Mitch thought he was out to, based on a comment from Simmons at the forum. > If I was > going to get rid of someone for an incident that involved me, why wouldn'tI > have booted Sean? I was a *lot* more pissed off at THAT incident - so madI > left the race. And again - if I was so dead set on not racingwith/against > you, why the hell would I let you race in RASF1?!? I raced in the RASF1 race at Hungary *before* John made his announcement that I was out. > No, I did NOT give him *full* control. I vetoed several rules he wantedto > add. I also vetoed him kicking you and Mitch out of RASCAR. You didn't let us know that. I actually think you missed his "Attention Dave Fisher" thread, and are honestly confused now about the sequence of events. Apparently (his own words in this thread) he asked you in private to kick us out before the Bristol race and you refused. He then went ahead on his own on Aug. 24th and announced I was out. You never reponded to that thread. I even asked you to but heard nothing. Maybe you just never knew what he did becasue you pulled the server immediately after that? > I don't give a > shit WHAT he said. I'm also starting not to give a shit what you say,because > you don't seem to see things for what they are. I know I didn't kick you, > Mitch and Jan know I didn't kick you. Mitch and Jan did think I was out. Mitch and I discussed it many times (obviously) and as I said, Jan thought the same thing. Jan was going to get a server, put John in charge, and leave me out. Ask Jan. > You must be the only one who didn't know I hadn't kicked you out...Geez, > David - what's the chip on _your_ shoulder for? As I said, Mitch, Jan, and many others thought I was out. Fact is, if John had continued with his RASCAR dictator duties after you pulled the server, I would of been kept out. No chip, just getting things straight so there's no misunderstanding. David G Fisher

David G Fisher 25 Oct 2003 02:36 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #50770

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >You kicked me off the server in your "Attention Dave Fisher" thread. > >http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2586212221d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe > >=UTF-8&selm=MPG.19b25e3a151d1325989a34%40news-server.satx.rr.com > > Is THIS what you've been bitching about?!? Ah, *now* I get it...you're > confused. John was running a practice server. You guys had a incident(or > three), then had words, and he kicked you off. Fact - that was HISserver, not > mine. I have no control over how he runs HIS machine, or who he does ordoes > not allow to race. That's between you and him - it's none of my damnbusiness. > But I *did* tell him that I thought he over-reacted... > > >That's a fact. Eldred said yesterday that I was never kicked out ofRASCAR. > >He didn't know what you did apparently. > > Sure, I knew about it. It was another in a long line of blow-ups between > various drivers. It was also an incident totally removed from RASCAR,except > the fact that John named the server RASCAR so that the drivers could findit > and practice. That personal incident between you two had nothing to dowith > the server I ran. It was an unofficial practice on an unofficial server.I'll > say it YET again - I *never* had any intention of dropping you OR Mitchfrom > RASCAR. Got it now??? > > You owe me an apology, David. > > Eldred I just explained this in another thread, but I'm going to make it crystal clear right here. 1. Before the Bristol race (your server was not operating that weekend, so we used John's for the official race), John apparently asked to have both Mitch and I banned from RASCAR, and you refused. Apparently he didn't like the fact that we wouldn't accept being told when, where, and what we could say about RASCAR. 2. During the 1/2 hour Bristol practice before the official race started, John was weaving and caused two incidents. He then (without a word form me) threatend to kick me off the server before the race started, accusing me in front of the group of deliberately trying to wreck him. I saiod nothing. It was a pathetic, scumbag thing he did. Seemed orchestrated to me, especially now that I know he asked you to remove Mitch and I BEFORE that race. I posted replays for everyone to see how poorly he was driving, and how he was racing me in a practice session and wouldn't let me by even though I was significantly faster. Various ras readers like John Wallace and Mika Takala cleared me of John's bullshit accusations (that I was being reckless), and said he was wrong for threatening to kick me off the server. The thread can be found here if you have 10 hours to waste. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl3921833310d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe =UTF-8&selm=M8qcnRIBoLFsotWiU-KYvA%40comcast.com 3. Here's where you get confused. He then, on Aug. 24th, in the days AFTER the Bristol race, announced to ras in the "Attention Dave Fisher" thread that I was absolutely out of RASCAR. You never said a word in that long thread. I never heard a word from you regarding this nonsense. Someone being kicked out of RASCAR is a pretty major deal, and since you were silent on the matter (two months now) and he was acting like a weak little dictator, I, Mitch, Jan, and others thought I was out. If John had stayed in charge of RASCAR but on another server, I would of been out. Ask Jan. 4. You soon afterward pulled your server. I was banned by John. He or you never said anything to the contrary until last night. I'm pretty sure now that you simply have got the timing of things confused, and didn't actually know what happened. It should be clear now. Dictator Johnny went over your head and kicked me out. Nothing new was said on the matter until the past 24 hours. This whole mess is a perfect example of how out of control he was. David G Fisher

Don Burnette 25 Oct 2003 02:47 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50771

David G Fisher wrote: <snip>

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> I was banned by John. He or you never said anything to the contrary > until last night. I'm pretty sure now that you simply have got the > timing of things confused, and didn't actually know what happened. It > should be clear now. Dictator Johnny went over your head and kicked > me out. Nothing new was said on the matter until the past 24 hours. > This whole mess is a perfect example of how out of control he was. > > David G Fisher

Dang, this stuff is better than even the heated political debates on the flight sim forum. :) -- Don Burnette

EldredP 25 Oct 2003 04:44 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50782

In article <[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: >2. During the 1/2 hour Bristol practice before the official race started, >John was weaving and caused two incidents. He then (without a word form me) >threatend to kick me off the server before the race started, accusing me in >front of the group of deliberately trying to wreck him. I saiod nothing. So then it must have been true, and you were deliberately trying to wreck him. Your silence confirms that. Now that sounds silly, doesn't it? But that's exactly what you've dropped on me. > It >was a pathetic, scumbag thing he did. I agree it was over the top.

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>Seemed orchestrated to me, especially >now that I know he asked you to remove Mitch and I BEFORE that race. I >posted replays for everyone to see how poorly he was driving, and how he was >racing me in a practice session and wouldn't let me by even though I was >significantly faster. Various ras readers like John Wallace and Mika Takala >cleared me of John's bullshit accusations (that I was being reckless), and >said he was wrong for threatening to kick me off the server. The thread can >be found here if you have 10 hours to waste.

Not worth reading again. I already know that. > >3. Here's where you get confused. Nah, not me...

Quoted text (8 lines)

>He then, on Aug. 24th, in the days AFTER >the Bristol race, announced to ras in the "Attention Dave Fisher" thread >that I was absolutely out of RASCAR. You never said a word in that long >thread. I never heard a word from you regarding this nonsense. Someone being >kicked out of RASCAR is a pretty major deal, and since you were silent on >the matter (two months now) and he was acting like a weak little dictator, >I, Mitch, Jan, and others thought I was out. If John had stayed in charge of >RASCAR but on another server, I would of been out. Ask Jan.

Probably. You and John don't like each other. Jan knew that John would not let you race, and was willing to go along with that. How the hell is that MY fault? I don't have any control over John's feelings for you, no Jan's willingness to follow John's rules. You seem to think otherwise, though. >4. You soon afterward pulled your server. > >I was banned by John. He or you never said anything to the contrary until >last night. I'm pretty sure now that you simply have got the timing of >things confused, and didn't actually know what happened. It should be clear >now. Dictator Johnny went over your head and kicked me out. No, what is clear is that you *assumed* you were out, based on John's threats. Do not presume to know who or what was allowed on MY server. From my point of view, John's rant was a harmless statement. He had no control over the server whatsoever. PERIOD. Therefore, I didn't even need to justify his comments. Had I decided that you and Mitch would be removed from RASCAR, I would have posted it here, as I did with your suspension and Tim's, and also Mitch's last season. If you were so worried about being eliminated, why didn't you ask me? If you had, I would have told you no, you were still a member - come have fun. You could have sent an e-mail if you didn't want to risk public embarrassment. >Nothing new was >said on the matter until the past 24 hours. This whole mess is a perfect >example of how out of control he was. Yes, the whole situation was out of control. I won't deny that John's abrasiveness was a major part of it. But several people here kept egging him on, and continue to do so. I think you guys *enjoy* bitching at each other. I'm not sure why, but it doesn't really matter... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Ruud Dingemans 25 Oct 2003 05:46 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #50784

EldredP wrote: > I can't even give tips on optimizing frame rate in the sims we love. Just on a side note, maybe I've got a useful one here: Michael S. on Racesimcentral has posted a reduced-size mirror.mip that improves GPL by about 4 to 8 fps, depending on size. Mirror image is a bit (or lot) fuzzier but I suppose that's realistic, since the mirrors would be vibrating the whole time. Regards, Rudy (GPLRank -11)

John Simmons 25 Oct 2003 10:20 UTC↳ reply to Don Burnette #50793

> David G Fisher wrote: > > > I was banned by John. I sent Eldred a message to have you excluded, but he didn't do it. You weren't even banned from the practice server (the server that *I* controlled). I have at least one witness that saw you log onto it (besides myself), which you probably did just to see if you could. I even said right here that anyone that was on the official invite list in RASCAR at the time that you threw your tantrum over Bristol was eligible to race on my server, and I even made it a point to say that you and Mitch were not excluded from that list. Get a grip Dave, and stop being a child over this.

John Simmons 25 Oct 2003 10:26 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #50794

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted text (16 lines)

> > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > > I was banned by John. > > I sent Eldred a message to have you excluded, but he didn't do it. > You weren't even banned from the practice server (the server that *I* > controlled). I have at least one witness that saw you log onto it > (besides myself), which you probably did just to see if you could. > > I even said right here that anyone that was on the official invite > list in RASCAR at the time that you threw your tantrum over Bristol > was eligible to race on my server, and I even made it a point to say > that you and Mitch were not excluded from that list. > > Get a grip Dave, and stop being a child over this. >

And just so you know, here's the original newsgroup messages concerning the practice server: ---------------------------------------------- From: John Simmons ([email hidden]) Subject: JUNTACAR: New Hampshire at 4pm eastern This is the only article in this thread Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators Date: 2003-09-07 11:29:47 PST Anyone that was in the rascar invite list as of bristol is invited to attend. There's room for about 20. All I ask is that you drive well. ---------------------------------------------- And then... ---------------------------------------------- From: John Simmons ([email hidden]) Subject: Surprised Dave? Date: 2003-09-12 17:56:02 PST . Message 2 in thread From: Bamadano ([email hidden]) Subject: Re: Surprised Dave? Date: 2003-09-12 18:27:15 PST Well this oughta be good :) Could this mean.......... :) Dan Message 3 in thread From: John Simmons ([email hidden]) Subject: Re: Surprised Dave? Date: 2003-09-13 02:21:48 PST In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Well this oughta be good :) Could this mean.......... :) > Dan No, it doesn't mean that at all. He connected to the JUNTACAR server last night. I think it was to see if he was in the invite list...

Race1530 25 Oct 2003 11:37 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #50799

Just letting everyone know that I am a first -time Grandfather! She was born October 4th 2003 at 3:38 am. Name - Gianna. 20-inches long and 7.4 oz I would like to put her on the invite list for RASCAR. Although she might have a tough time reaching the pedals, I'm sure she has the intellectual maturity to join in the discussions. <VBG> Grampa Michael

Tim Paullin 25 Oct 2003 12:01 UTC↳ reply to Race1530 #50801

LOL! and Congrats! Tim "Race1530" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Just letting everyone know that I am a first -time Grandfather! She wasborn > October 4th 2003 at 3:38 am. Name - Gianna. 20-inches long and 7.4 oz > > I would like to put her on the invite list for RASCAR. Although she mighthave > a tough time reaching the pedals, I'm sure she has the intellectualmaturity to > join in the discussions. > > <VBG> > > Grampa Michael

Steve Whitty 25 Oct 2003 12:09 UTC↳ reply to Race1530 #50805

"Race1530" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Just letting everyone know that I am a first -time Grandfather! She wasborn > October 4th 2003 at 3:38 am. Name - Gianna. 20-inches long and 7.4 oz > > I would like to put her on the invite list for RASCAR. Although she mighthave > a tough time reaching the pedals, I'm sure she has the intellectualmaturity to > join in the discussions. > > <VBG> > > Grampa Michael Congrats. Maybe I can put my 4 year old on the invite list. Only problem, he hears what your saying, but isn't listening!!! gee, that sounds familiar around here. <said with tongue firmly planted in cheek> Maybe, just maybe, can the people concerned in this thread please agree to disagree, shake hands(so to speak) and move on. Steve

Race1530 25 Oct 2003 12:32 UTC↳ reply to Steve Whitty #50806

Tim, Steve, Thanks! Ah well, the longer it goes, the more comedic it becomes. And really, the sillier it is the more difused it is. Now it's just entertainment! Thanks again, Grampa Michael

Don Burnette 25 Oct 2003 13:06 UTC↳ reply to Race1530 #50809

Race1530 wrote:

Quoted text (11 lines)

> Just letting everyone know that I am a first -time Grandfather! She > was born October 4th 2003 at 3:38 am. Name - Gianna. 20-inches long > and 7.4 oz > > I would like to put her on the invite list for RASCAR. Although she > might have a tough time reaching the pedals, I'm sure she has the > intellectual maturity to join in the discussions. > > <VBG> > > Grampa Michael

Congratulations!! I have one on the way, due in about a month, and then I will be a first time Grandfather as well. I am still trying to adjust to the thought :). -- Don Burnette

Race1530 25 Oct 2003 13:09 UTC↳ reply to Don Burnette #50814

>>Congratulations!! I have one on the way, due in about a month, and then Iwill be a first time Grandfather as well. I am still trying to adjust to the thought :). Don Burnette>> Congrats right back at ya! Don, you are going to have the time of your life! It is so much different than when you held your own. You look at that tiny human being and know that they will see things, and learn things and experience things that we will never know. It's truly humbling. And of course when they get older, after baby sitting we get to send them back to their parents on a sugar high... I bought it in cube form! :) Grampa Michael

Jan Verschueren 25 Oct 2003 14:56 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #50828

"Mitch_A" wrote... > Without going into the details again Jan you do have a few > things right on and a few things clearly slanted towards > your political view on the entire situation. I wouldnt > say what youre saying is purely unbiased or the responses > would have been from a broader spectrum. Hmmm... <g>

Quoted text (7 lines)

> We disagree about the semantics, SO WHAT? Do I HATE you > because of a disagreement? No way man. > Its all about the racing and youre a smart racer whom I > truly enjoy racing :) If a few key guys would just > swallow their pride and get over it already or come back > racing we wouldnt still be having this discussion > quarterly.

Very true... > This really is a no win situation for RASCAR in the long run. > We ALL know how each other feels about this whole thing so why > keep re-hashing it? Remember what I posted to this thread a week ago and in reply to whom that was? <vbg> > What we have now doesnt EXCLUDE anyone. Those that wish to > participate do those that dont won't, simple as that. <snip> I think it would be a good idea to move this general statement up a couple levels in the thread. Jan. =---

Jan Verschueren 25 Oct 2003 14:56 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #50829

"EldredP" wrote...

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > <snip> > I'm not trying to GET any status(or even "cred"). I just > want to help the community. I can't make setups, I can't > give driving tips, I don't know how to create tracks, car > sounds, or extra graphics. I can't even give tips on > optimizing frame rate in the sims we love. I provide > servers to leagues and groups - that doesn't require > anything but a spare machine. > As much assistance(and fun) as I've gotten here over the > years, it's the *least* I can do.

I meant on behalf of your driving, rather than your hosting, but anyway... Jan. =---

Jan Verschueren 25 Oct 2003 14:56 UTC#531269

Hmmm... <g> Very true... Remember what I posted to this thread a week ago and in reply to whom that was? <vbg> I think it would be a good idea to move this general statement up a couple levels in the thread. Jan. =---

Jan Verschueren 25 Oct 2003 15:09 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #50831

"EldredP" wrote... > <snip> > Probably. You and John don't like each other. Jan knew > that John would not let you race, and was willing to go > along with that. Put it this way: I would rather have Dave (or you, or me, or whomever) not racing than to have no race at all. > How the hell is that MY fault? Because it is. If you didn't want anyone removed from RASCAR you should have said so, not sneakily kept their names on the invite list of what was by then no longer the series server. Doing so would have either seen John pull out or forced him to compromise. Jan. =---

grub 25 Oct 2003 15:45 UTC↳ reply to Jan Verschueren #50689

Finally, ITS ELDRED'S FAULT. Everybody jump on Eldred now. The only problem with blaming Eldred, is that now everyone is suspect. If Eldred could be guilty, then Grubbat could be guilty. Maybe I'm the one who started it. Actually, if the truth be known, ZZ is the one who started it and restarted it. He's probally restart it if RASCAR can survive this latest self-destruction wave of inner turmoil. Don't worry ZZ, i appreciate a good bait when I see it. You filled your net more than you realized didn't you. Lots of little fishies. Now that we know that Eldred is the one to blame, lets get together over here at my place by the Atlanta motor speedway, and have a good southeren bon-fire, complete with smoores, hotdogs, and some butt-kicking. My neighbor buddy, who lives two doublewides up, will be glad to start the festivites off by calling your mother a filthy name. This should lead up to some threats, maybe a challenge to knock a chip of his shoulder or cross the line in the dirt, and then ZZ can holler out a good RASCAR thread, and then wham. We would have us good ole southern brawl. At least this way, some would get their anger out, some would get there rear kicked, some of us will be entertained for years, and some would run. Either way, the issue would get resolved among us RASCAR kinfolks, and we could move on with bashing other things besides ourselves. The good book says that you have to forgive to be forgiven. Don't matter who is right. Right now, nobody cares. I personally would like for one of you men to just let it go and move on. I know that this type of thinking is foreign, but give it a try. The lesser of the man will attempt to keep it going and all will be able to desern who the child really is. Remember, at this point in the game, it don't matter who is right. grub "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:imwmb.106443$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (13 lines)

> > "EldredP" wrote... > > <snip> > > Probably. You and John don't like each other. Jan knew > > that John would not let you race, and was willing to go > > along with that. > > Put it this way: I would rather have Dave (or you, or me, or whomever) not > racing than to have no race at all. > > > How the hell is that MY fault? > > Because it is. If you didn't want anyone removed from RASCAR you should

have > said so, not sneakily kept their names on the invite list of what was by > then no longer the series server. Doing so would have either seen Johnpull > out or forced him to compromise. > > Jan. > =--- > >

Tony Rickard 25 Oct 2003 16:10 UTC↳ reply to grub #50691

What we need now is Tom Pabst "special" to divert attention... --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 16/10/2003

Mitch_A 25 Oct 2003 17:19 UTC↳ reply to Race1530 #50697

Congrats buddy. Or, Im sooo sorry depending on your viewpoint <g> "Race1530" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Just letting everyone know that I am a first -time Grandfather! She wasborn > October 4th 2003 at 3:38 am. Name - Gianna. 20-inches long and 7.4 oz > > I would like to put her on the invite list for RASCAR. Although she mighthave > a tough time reaching the pedals, I'm sure she has the intellectualmaturity to > join in the discussions. > > <VBG> > > Grampa Michael

Jan Verschueren 25 Oct 2003 17:27 UTC↳ reply to grub #50698

"grub" wrote... > Finally, ITS ELDRED'S FAULT. > Everybody jump on Eldred now. > <snip> Grub, my friend, this is uncalled for. I was trying to explain to Eldred why Dave blames him, not blaming Eldred for the episode. Try reading messages in context or leave satire to the pro's, thanks. Jan. =---

Jan Verschueren 25 Oct 2003 17:34 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #50699

"Mitch_A" wrote... > Congrats buddy. Or, Im sooo sorry depending on > your viewpoint <g> Before it's born I think congratulations are in order. The commiserations come after it's puked its guts out over his best shirt. ;-) Jan./ shirts - babies: 0-2 =---

Goy Larsen 25 Oct 2003 18:03 UTC↳ reply to grub #50703

grub wrote: > > Finally, ITS ELDRED'S FAULT. > Everybody jump on Eldred now. I'm sure Brian Tate is at fault somehow Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Goy Larsen 25 Oct 2003 18:04 UTC↳ reply to Don Burnette #50704

Don Burnette wrote: > > Congratulations!! I have one on the way, due in about a month, and then I > will be a first time Grandfather as well. I am still trying to adjust to the > thought :). Muhahahahahah.....you're officially OLD !!! Not as old as Bruce of course, but still Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Goy Larsen 25 Oct 2003 18:05 UTC↳ reply to Race1530 #50705

Race1530 wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > Just letting everyone know that I am a first -time Grandfather! She was born > October 4th 2003 at 3:38 am. Name - Gianna. 20-inches long and 7.4 oz > > I would like to put her on the invite list for RASCAR. Although she might have > a tough time reaching the pedals, I'm sure she has the intellectual maturity to > join in the discussions.

Congrats.....and btw, you're now officially OLD Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Race1530 25 Oct 2003 18:23 UTC↳ reply to Goy Larsen #50707

Thanks to one and all....looking at my little Angel makes everything, including the lively discussion on RASCAR rather trivial. Thanks again, Grandpa Michael

Goy Larsen 25 Oct 2003 18:35 UTC↳ reply to Race1530 #50708

Race1530 wrote: > > Thanks to one and all....looking at my little Angel makes everything, including > the lively discussion on RASCAR rather trivial. It certainly does :-) 6 years ago I became an uncle for the first time, no kids of my own, and nothing's been the same since then, the fact that it was a girl made it all the more special since for some reason all my blood relatives are boys it seems Yeah, I've got a basic idea about how you're feeling :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Mitch_A 25 Oct 2003 18:51 UTC↳ reply to Goy Larsen #50713

Use it or lose it Goy ;) "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (18 lines)

> > > 6 years ago I became an uncle for the first time, no kids of my own, and > nothing's been the same since then, the fact that it was a girl made it > all the more special since for some reason all my blood relatives are > boys it seems > > Yeah, I've got a basic idea about how you're feeling :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "goyl at nettx dot no" > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

Race1530 25 Oct 2003 19:05 UTC↳ reply to Goy Larsen #50714

>>It certainly does :-) 6 years ago I became an uncle for the first time, no kids of my own, and nothing's been the same since then, the fact that it was a girl made it all the more special since for some reason all my blood relatives are boys it seems Yeah, I've got a basic idea about how you're feeling :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no">> Great feeling...you're so right. :-) Grampa Michael

Goy Larsen 25 Oct 2003 19:33 UTC↳ reply to Mitch_A #50715

Mitch_A wrote: > > Use it or lose it Goy ;) I am using it, maybe I'm not using it correctly.... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

EldredP 25 Oct 2003 20:22 UTC↳ reply to Jan Verschueren #50724

In article <imwmb.106443$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: >> How the hell is that MY fault? > >Because it is. If you didn't want anyone removed from RASCAR you should have >said so, not sneakily kept their names on the invite list of what was by >then no longer the series server. Doing so would have either seen John pull >out or forced him to compromise. Ok, FINE - it's all my fault. All the accidents, arguments, namecalling, etc. Every misunderstanding that EVER took place in RASCAR, blame it on me. I don't have the patience to argue this shit anymore. I'll worry about it in the next lifetime. I have more important things going wrong in my life right now. There - you happy? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Pete 25 Oct 2003 21:07 UTC↳ reply to Goy Larsen #50729

You've left the door wide open here! I'll bite my tongue though. :-) Pete "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (13 lines)

> > > I am using it, maybe I'm not using it correctly.... > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "goyl at nettx dot no" > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

Goy Larsen 25 Oct 2003 21:09 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #50728

EldredP wrote:

Quoted text (16 lines)

> > In article <imwmb.106443$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >> How the hell is that MY fault? > > > >Because it is. If you didn't want anyone removed from RASCAR you should have > >said so, not sneakily kept their names on the invite list of what was by > >then no longer the series server. Doing so would have either seen John pull > >out or forced him to compromise. > > Ok, FINE - it's all my fault. All the accidents, arguments, namecalling, etc. > Every misunderstanding that EVER took place in RASCAR, blame it on me. I don't > have the patience to argue this shit anymore. I'll worry about it in the next > lifetime. I have more important things going wrong in my life right now. > There - you happy?

Go watch a few cartoons Eldred :-), I can't believe you're letting this RASCAR crap get to you, you walked away from it, now leave it behind and leave the arguing to those who enjoy it, people like me :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Don Burnette 25 Oct 2003 21:36 UTC↳ reply to Goy Larsen #50730

Goy Larsen wrote:

Quoted text (10 lines)

> Don Burnette wrote: >> >> Congratulations!! I have one on the way, due in about a month, and >> then I will be a first time Grandfather as well. I am still trying >> to adjust to the thought :). > > Muhahahahahah.....you're officially OLD !!! > > Not as old as Bruce of course, but still >

Heck no, I just figure I will be the world's youngest Grandfather!! :) -- Don Burnette

Goy Larsen 25 Oct 2003 21:41 UTC↳ reply to Pete #50731

Pete wrote: > > You've left the door wide open here! I'll bite > my tongue though. :-) LOL, I know, I was expecting Tony to chime in here and was hoping for some amusing replies, I guess some people don't spend their Sat afternoons on Usenet :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Goy Larsen 25 Oct 2003 21:51 UTC↳ reply to Don Burnette #50732

Don Burnette wrote: > > Heck no, I just figure I will be the world's youngest Grandfather!! I've seen pics of you Don, you can't get away with that, not even close :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Richard "ZZ" Busch 25 Oct 2003 22:43 UTC↳ reply to Pete #50735

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > I am using it, maybe I'm not using it correctly.... > Maybe try the front door. ;-) -- Richard

Jan Verschueren 25 Oct 2003 22:47 UTC↳ reply to EldredP #50736

"EldredP" wrote... > > <snip> > Ok, FINE - it's all my fault. All the accidents, arguments, > namecalling, etc. > Every misunderstanding that EVER took place in RASCAR, blame > it on me. I'm not saying it's all your fault, I'm saying I can understand that Dave feels let down with respect to what has come to light (heck, *I* didn't know you didn't want him kicked out... otherwise I would have insisted it'd be your call). Besides, it can't be all your fault... it was all Dave's fault just this morning... ;-) (<--- joke due to similar comment by Dave in earlier post, Grub). > I don't have the patience to argue this shit anymore. I'll > worry about it in the next lifetime. I have more important > things going wrong in my life right now. > There - you happy? No, I'm sorry I upset you and I'm sad life is treating you shitty. Jan. =---

Goy Larsen 25 Oct 2003 23:23 UTC↳ reply to Richard "ZZ" Busch #50594

ZZ wrote:

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > I am using it, maybe I'm not using it correctly.... > > > > Maybe try the front door. ;-)

Now we're getting somewhere, maybe I ought to DL one of them "instructional videos" I see listed on WinMX ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Tony Rickard 25 Oct 2003 23:40 UTC↳ reply to Jan Verschueren #50597

Now that it is fashionable to pick on Eldred I'd like to point out it was my idea: Message 39 in thread From: Tony Rickard ([email hidden]) Subject: Re: 96' Ferrari F1 - Irvine/Schumacher Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators Date: 2002-02-24 02:33:38 PST Yeh, I think we should all start picking on Eldred - cos _everybody_ likes him :-) Tony --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 16/10/2003

Richard "ZZ" Busch 25 Oct 2003 23:49 UTC↳ reply to Tony Rickard #50598

Tony espeaketh: Now that it is fashionable to pick on Eldred I'd like to point out it was my idea: Message 39 in thread From: Tony Rickard ([email hidden]) Subject: Re: 96' Ferrari F1 - Irvine/Schumacher Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators Date: 2002-02-24 02:33:38 PST Yeh, I think we should all start picking on Eldred - cos _everybody_ likes him :-) ------------- Let's pick on Tony. He picked the name. Shoulda named it Waaaaaaaaaascar. ;-) -- Richard "ZZ" Busch

Tony Rickard 26 Oct 2003 00:03 UTC↳ reply to Richard "ZZ" Busch #50601

"ZZ" wrote: > Let's pick on Tony. He picked the name. Shoulda named it Waaaaaaaaaascar. > ;-) Nah, we should have called it Rascal - after your fishing expedition... --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 16/10/2003

Richard "ZZ" Busch 26 Oct 2003 00:22 UTC↳ reply to Tony Rickard #50602

Nah, we should have called it Rascal - after your fishing expedition ------------- LOL and I'm still fishing ;-) -- Richard "ZZ" Busch Member: Screamers Racing League OAO CORS MARA TransAm RASCAR GPL Rank + 17.415 MoGPL Rank + 318.586 N2002 Rank + 7.695 TransAm Rank ?? http://www.ZZBusch.com ---------------- Busch Motorsports: Remember racecar is racecar spelled backward ----------------- Busch Carpentry: A good carpenter can nail anything -----------------

elrikk 26 Oct 2003 01:20 UTC↳ reply to Richard "ZZ" Busch #50611

"ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yrEmb.11361$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> Nah, we should have called it Rascal - after your fishing expedition > ------------- > > LOL > > and I'm still fishing ;-) > > -- > Richard "ZZ" Busch

Yes, but do you have to do it in my trunk ? ;o) Elrikk

elrikk 26 Oct 2003 01:22 UTC↳ reply to Goy Larsen #50612

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > > Mitch_A wrote: > > > > Use it or lose it Goy ;) > > I am using it, maybe I'm not using it correctly.... > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "goyl at nettx dot no"

There's a wrong way to use it ? ;o) Elrikk

Don Burnette 26 Oct 2003 02:14 UTC↳ reply to Goy Larsen #50619

Goy Larsen wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> Don Burnette wrote: >> >> Heck no, I just figure I will be the world's youngest Grandfather!! > > I've seen pics of you Don, you can't get away with that, not even > close :-) >

Heh heh, Your only as old as you feel!!! Oh wait a minutes, damn I am getting old! -- Don Burnette

Larry 26 Oct 2003 02:55 UTC↳ reply to David G Fisher #50631

Ok, folks. It's time for a group hug :) Larry "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <ulUlb.5855$[email hidden]>, > > [email hidden] says... > > > I think it's Tim White Eldred. He and David had issues but hecontinues

Quoted text (10 lines)

> to > > > hammer me (for reasons unknown) so he's the sole member of my killfile > which > > > was why I didnt see any original posts. No matter. > > > > > > Just to set the record straight Tim quit RASCAR on his own. Neither > David > > > nor I ever so much as mentioned him in any conversation. If he feels > forced > > > out of RASCAR then thats something he must deal with on his own cause

Quoted text (13 lines)

> > > wasnt forced to do anything he didnt want to that I know of anyway :) > > > > He quit because Dave is an asshole, and for no other reason. > > Eldred quit because of me and no other reason? Lol. What a lousy liar you > are. He quit because you're mess, and you created a mess in RASCAR. > > > I was gonna say because he *thought* Dave was an asshole, but since I > > can verify that Dave is in fact a walking, talking, breathing > > browneye of a human being, I figured that was all the verification > > that was required. > > What you are Simmons is an incredibly insecure, small dicked, loser who's

so > desperate for power in his life that he felt the need to try and seize > complete control of something like RASCAR (a group of guys who simplyenjoy

Quoted text (10 lines)

> getting together once a week to play a racing sim) and act like a damn > dictator. > > Pathetic. > > Have fun on Saturday. > > David G Fisher > >

Larry 26 Oct 2003 03:16 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #50633

Speaking of which, the Indiana Jones transfers to DVD are pretty good! Hey, gotta change this thread SOME how :) -Larry "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (13 lines)

> In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > John Simmons wrote: > > > > > For the most part, the rules would be decided on by the admins > > > > Chisel them onto stone tablets while God dictates them to you...then > > kill God. > > Yes, and then tote them around in a ceremonial gold box, and lay > waste to any armies that form against me. > > :)

Goy Larsen 26 Oct 2003 08:44 UTC↳ reply to Don Burnette #50646

Don Burnette wrote: > > Heh heh, > > Your only as old as you feel!!! > Oh wait a minutes, damn I am getting old! No, you need to read my sig more carefully :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Don Burnette 26 Oct 2003 18:11 UTC↳ reply to Goy Larsen #50680

Goy Larsen wrote:

Quoted text (18 lines)

> Don Burnette wrote: >> >> Heh heh, >> >> Your only as old as you feel!!! >> Oh wait a minutes, damn I am getting old! > > No, you need to read my sig more carefully :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "goyl at nettx dot no" > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

Lol, now your talkin!! -- Don Burnette

Gerry Aitken 29 Oct 2003 16:57 UTC↳ reply to John Simmons #50393

John Simmons wrote:

Quoted text (24 lines)

> In article <eTemb.2727$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > >>Please explain to everyone how you know the size of another man's dick. >>Please. >> >> > > > Maybe he just assumes that everyone is as pitifully endowed as he > is... > > Disclaimer: There's really no good retort for this without implying > that I am equally familiar with the girth of his worth. I would like > to state, for the record, that I have never to my knowledge seen > Dave, naked or otherwise, nor do I believe the rumors concerning his > own severely lacking mass in the area of male genitalia (something to > the effect that if he were search for his penis, he'd have to cut his > pubic hairs one at a time until he found one that bleeds, and then > assume he hit pay dirt). I suppose that some may make sport of him > over it, but not me. > > >

Everyone one knows that GPL cut Dave's penis off! -- Gerry Aitken© ...and a friend shall lose a friend's hammer. - Book of Cyril, chapter 6, verse 16 This e-mail has been scanned for all known viruses by a fish called Colin.

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