Racing Legends update - oh no - they've fully detailed the transporter truck!

Firstly - sorry for my premature message about the outage the other days, turns out that it was just a glitch for a few hours on their site. I just groaned when I read October update - Chris West has spent the last month fully detailing a 1968 car transporter - right down to a highly detailed chassis! I'm sure that just about everyone who has seen they update has had the same reaction - how about some priorities - we just want a car we can drive before next decade! To be fair, he did explain in last month's update that his brother is doing all the complex coding and physics side of things, so devitating a bit on the graphics side won't hold the project up. However, I think they need to learn a bit of PR - most people won't know that, and will groan just like I did. Cheers, Tim

And the point of all this detail is? Have you ever tried to manipulate a fully rendered object in AutoCAD or 3DS? It is painfully slow to even render one frame on a high end PC, let alone run it in real-time. Pretty pictures is all they have. "epster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9BXkb.87843$[email hidden]...

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> Firstly - sorry for my premature message about the outage the other days, > turns out that it was just a glitch for a few hours on their site. > > I just groaned when I read October update - Chris West has spent the last > month fully detailing a 1968 car transporter - right down to a highly > detailed chassis! > > I'm sure that just about everyone who has seen they update has had the

same > reaction - how about some priorities - we just want a car we can drive > before next decade! > > To be fair, he did explain in last month's update that his brother isdoing > all the complex coding and physics side of things, so devitating a bit on > the graphics side won't hold the project up. However, I think they need to > learn a bit of PR - most people won't know that, and will groan just likeI > did. > > Cheers, > Tim > >

Schooner wrote: > And the point of all this detail is? > Have you ever tried to manipulate a fully rendered object in AutoCAD or 3DS? > It is painfully slow to even render one frame on a high end PC, let alone > run it in real-time. Pretty pictures is all they have. > >It's for grid computering.. don't you see!!! It's going to 100% perfect physics, graphically correct down to the last bolt, but just require the whole god dam internet to run the thing on one machine. Oh and skynet to control the AI :))

"epster" wrote: > I'm sure that just about everyone who has seen they update has had thesame > reaction - how about some priorities - we just want a car we can drive > before next decade! Absolutely! Seeing an update is great until you read: "During the next month we plan to get the user interface up and working and I hope to get some more done on the transporter." Now in the previous update it was stated that he wanted to do more on the 312, now diverted to the bloody transporter! Perhaps we should have a quick poll, what would you like to see most from the RL development team: 1/ A customisable text rendering system for the user interface 2/ A realistic Reliance Swift transporter fully rendered 3/ A car in motion on a track (preferably in a demo) - we'll have the updated interface and transporter in later releases. Awe which one... the transporter is very nice, the customisable user interface is way sexy, oh I can't make up my mind... Now I wish these guys the best of luck and I want to be first in the queue when something drivable is out but if the RL site is for racing sim enthusiasts (can it be for anyone else?) then surely someone there should realise that garages, transporters and interfaces are not on the target audiences priority list! Finishing touches maybe. Cheers Tony

Hehe ya when I seen them modelling all the internal parts of the engine I knew it was a bigger joke than we could even imagine. Once you throw realistic thinking into the mix the concept falls apart. They are planning to render movie quality scenes in real-time on a desktop PC. Even Hollywood can't do this to the level they are showing. It takes rooms of rendering PC to do that. "Kinesin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XSXkb.787$[email hidden]... > Schooner wrote: > > And the point of all this detail is? > > Have you ever tried to manipulate a fully rendered object in AutoCAD or3DS? > > It is painfully slow to even render one frame on a high end PC, letalone

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> > run it in real-time. Pretty pictures is all they have. > > > > > It's for grid computering.. don't you see!!! > > It's going to 100% perfect physics, graphically correct down to the last > bolt, but just require the whole god dam internet to run the thing on > one machine. Oh and skynet to control the AI :)) >

In article <9BXkb.87843$[email hidden]>, "epster" <[email hidden]> writes: >I just groaned when I read October update - Chris West has spent the last >month fully detailing a 1968 car transporter - right down to a highly >detailed chassis! You know what? I'll say it. I don't give a <expletive> about a detailed transporter! People want to RACE, not look at the trucks in the paddock(that we can't drive). I'm sorry, but that's one of the stupidest 'enhancements' I've ever heard of... :-( Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Even I have to say that update didn't make much sense.. To me, something like that is a final touch... Mike http://mikebeauchamp.com "epster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9BXkb.87843$[email hidden]...

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> Firstly - sorry for my premature message about the outage the other days, > turns out that it was just a glitch for a few hours on their site. > > I just groaned when I read October update - Chris West has spent the last > month fully detailing a 1968 car transporter - right down to a highly > detailed chassis! > > I'm sure that just about everyone who has seen they update has had the

same > reaction - how about some priorities - we just want a car we can drive > before next decade! > > To be fair, he did explain in last month's update that his brother isdoing > all the complex coding and physics side of things, so devitating a bit on > the graphics side won't hold the project up. However, I think they need to > learn a bit of PR - most people won't know that, and will groan just likeI > did. > > Cheers, > Tim > >

hee hee Should have known from the teddy bear episode that a bus couldn't be far behind "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <9BXkb.87843$[email hidden]>, "epster" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I just groaned when I read October update - Chris West has spent the last > >month fully detailing a 1968 car transporter - right down to a highly > >detailed chassis! > > You know what? I'll say it. I don't give a <expletive> about a detailed > transporter! People want to RACE, not look at the trucks in the

paddock(that > we can't drive). I'm sorry, but that's one of the stupidest'enhancements'

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> I've ever heard of... :-( > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Member > Screamers Racing League > IICC League > GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 > ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 > Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress > N2k3 rank:in progress > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

lol "Kinesin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XSXkb.787$[email hidden]... > It's for grid computering.. don't you see!!! > > It's going to 100% perfect physics, graphically correct down to the last > bolt, but just require the whole god dam internet to run the thing on > one machine. Oh and skynet to control the AI :)) >

..

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> > Now I wish these guys the best of luck and I want to be first in the > queue when something drivable is out but if the RL site is for racing > sim enthusiasts (can it be for anyone else?) then surely someone there > should realise that garages, transporters and interfaces are not on > the target audiences priority list! Finishing touches maybe. > > Cheers > Tony

Tony it seems you and everyone else are expecting something to be released soon. From reading the snippets here, they have a long ways to go, so 'getting a car to drive' just isn't a short term do-able item. They are doing it their own way, let them...everyone here seems to want to be a Producer and TELL the Westies what they can and can't do. IF or WHEN RL is released, then fine, goody, great...but until then, just let it go....relax....find your center...It just seems to me that a bunch of us carping about their priorities won't make much of an impact on the Wests. We'll see RL or we won't, now go play Half Life 2 until RL comes out............ ..... .... .. .... ...... .. .:) dave henrie

> Tony it seems you and everyone else are expecting something to be > released soon. From reading the snippets here, they have a long ways to > go, so 'getting a car to drive' just isn't a short term do-able item.They > are doing it their own way, let them...everyone here seems to want to be a > Producer and TELL the Westies what they can and can't do. > IF or WHEN RL is released, then fine, goody, great...but until then,just > let it go....relax....find your center...It just seems to me that a bunch > of us carping about their priorities won't make much of an impact on the > Wests. We'll see RL or we won't, now go play Half Life 2 until RL comes > out............ Totally agree, but you have to admit, it's not hard to see why Empire dumped them from the WSC project - they really do have a bizarre way of going about their business.

It took Michelangelo many years (1508 - 1512) to complete his masterpiece on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Bruce.

I'm friends with a developer who was privvy to the reason the wests were dumped, and you've basically hit the nail on the head Mr. Simpson. "Nothing to show for their time" was one of the official lines. Now there's no publisher, no one to push them, so things are going to take a looooong time :) Max Payne 2 is filling in the time nicely....what a game! -massivechicken "Steve Simpson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bn2c5s$sf87f$[email hidden]... > > Tony it seems you and everyone else are expecting something to be > > released soon. From reading the snippets here, they have a long ways to > > go, so 'getting a car to drive' just isn't a short term do-able item. > They > > are doing it their own way, let them...everyone here seems to want to bea > > Producer and TELL the Westies what they can and can't do. > > IF or WHEN RL is released, then fine, goody, great...but until then, > just > > let it go....relax....find your center...It just seems to me that abunch > > of us carping about their priorities won't make much of an impact on the > > Wests. We'll see RL or we won't, now go play Half Life 2 until RLcomes > > out............ > > Totally agree, but you have to admit, it's not hard to see why Empiredumped > them from the WSC project - they really do have a bizarre way of goingabout > their business. > >

> > I just groaned when I read October update - Chris West has spent the last > > month fully detailing a 1968 car transporter - right down to a highly > > detailed chassis! > >Perhaps someone here who is a game/software developer can comment on the West's progress. That is, what parts of a complete game would be developed in what order, and is RL progressing in any normal or rational manner. The update even mentions a search for photos of the bus interior, presumably so the interior can be rendered? Sounds suspicious.... To a casual simmer (me) with no programming experience, it would look like the West's either have a wicked sense of humor and simply want us wondering "did those guys really spend a month on a bus!!?" or... is the RL site periodically updated as entertainment while so they can read posts like this while they go about their lives doing something other than developing RL? Just wondering...

"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > It took Michelangelo many years (1508 - 1512) to complete his masterpieceon > the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. > I thought the RL development cycle was long until I visited the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona (started in the 1880s and projected to be completed in 2023). Of course, perhaps like RL, it was initially developed in a competely haphazad fashion, with Gaudi living on-site and assuming full "artistic" control, designing new structures on the fly, often doing a 180 on several important half-finished concepts. It was also entirely funded by private donations.... Stephen

>We'll see RL or we won't, now go play Half Life 2 until RL comes >out............ Actually, I've gotten hooked on Re-Volt again...<g> Can't beat that damn Platinum cup... Grrr.. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > We'll see RL or we won't, now go play Half Life 2 until RL comes > out............ Well with the complete hl2 source code leak pushing the release back to April 04, not much chance of that happening either. Anyway, Stalker (www.stalker-game.com) is going to be what we all hoped hl2 was going to be (from what I've seen of hl2 it doesn't look that impressive compared to Stalker), and Deus Ex 2 is out in Feb. I have a funny feeling that hl2 is going to flop when it is released just after Deus Ex 2 and Doom 3...

"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > It took Michelangelo many years (1508 - 1512) to complete his masterpiece on > the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. > > Bruce. The Wests have spent longer than that on WSC + RL already...

"EldredP" wrote... > > <snip> > Actually, I've gotten hooked on Re-Volt again...<g> Can't beat > that damn Platinum cup... Grrr.. I got a souped up version of the pudgy green buggy as a bonus for doing something else in the game and it was pretty easy to win the Platinum Cup using that. Check your available cars, you might have it knocking about too. Jan./Re-Volt... serious non-serious fun. =---

"Dave Henrie" wrote:

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> > Now I wish these guys the best of luck and I want to be first in the > > queue when something drivable is out but if the RL site is for racing > > sim enthusiasts (can it be for anyone else?) then surely someone there > > should realise that garages, transporters and interfaces are not on > > the target audiences priority list! Finishing touches maybe. > > > > Cheers > > Tony > > Tony it seems you and everyone else are expecting something to be > released soon. From reading the snippets here, they have a long ways to > go, so 'getting a car to drive' just isn't a short term do-able item.

They > are doing it their own way, let them...everyone here seems to want to bea > Producer and TELL the Westies what they can and can't do.<snip> Not really expecting something to drive but just a tad frustrated that development appears to be on those "final graphics touches" IMHO. The development model seems to be geared around an evolution of versions - various series and eras are promised using a ground breaking physics model. A video of a car on a track, or a working cockpit would go along way for me. I can't get excited about a transporter and unless I am alone I am genuinely surprsied that the Wests would not see that the updates simply frustrate rather than give a nice warm feeling of being communicated with. Yours oversensitively :) Tony --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 16/10/2003

Bizarre for sure....but eccentricity usually leads to one of two things: diddly-squat or genius. The transporter project is definitive proof that we will just have to let the West's go their own way and wait until version of a demo is available as they are obviously following their own path regardless of commercial interests. I am happy to do so with the likely prospect that either a) it will never come, or, b) it will be the GPL of its day when it does arrive. Waiting costs me nothing, but it may pay off big time. We'll see. Marc "Steve Simpson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bn2c5s$sf87f$[email hidden]... > > Tony it seems you and everyone else are expecting something to be > > released soon. From reading the snippets here, they have a long ways to > > go, so 'getting a car to drive' just isn't a short term do-able item. > They > > are doing it their own way, let them...everyone here seems to want to bea > > Producer and TELL the Westies what they can and can't do. > > IF or WHEN RL is released, then fine, goody, great...but until then, > just > > let it go....relax....find your center...It just seems to me that abunch > > of us carping about their priorities won't make much of an impact on the > > Wests. We'll see RL or we won't, now go play Half Life 2 until RLcomes > > out............ > > Totally agree, but you have to admit, it's not hard to see why Empiredumped > them from the WSC project - they really do have a bizarre way of goingabout > their business. > >

Excellent analogy. Marc "Stephen F." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3f95308f$[email hidden]... > > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > It took Michelangelo many years (1508 - 1512) to complete hismasterpiece > on > > the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. > > > > I thought the RL development cycle was long until I visited the Sagrada > Familia in Barcelona (started in the 1880s and projected to be completedin > 2023). Of course, perhaps like RL, it was initially developed in a > competely haphazad fashion, with Gaudi living on-site and assuming full > "artistic" control, designing new structures on the fly, often doing a 180 > on several important half-finished concepts. It was also entirely fundedby > private donations.... > > Stephen > >

My thoughts exactly! "Bruce Millar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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> > To a casual simmer (me) with no programming experience, it would look > like the West's either have a wicked sense of humor and simply want us > wondering "did those guys really spend a month on a bus!!?" or... is > the RL site periodically updated as entertainment while so they can > read posts like this while they go about their lives doing something > other than developing RL? Just wondering...

Yes, but imagine how splendid it will be once finished! The Pope will probably beatify it. Or them. Or maybe even the cat. Bruce. "Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > The Wests have spent longer than that on WSC + RL already...

In article <lQdlb.95677$%[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>"EldredP" wrote... >> > <snip> >> Actually, I've gotten hooked on Re-Volt again...<g> Can't beat >> that damn Platinum cup... Grrr.. > >I got a souped up version of the pudgy green buggy as a bonus for doing >something else in the game and it was pretty easy to win the Platinum Cup >using that. Check your available cars, you might have it knocking about too.

The "Phat" thing, or whatever? What did you do, get all the stars on the stunt track? I can only get about 4 our of 20. I haven't seen anything else yet that would get me that car, although there are still a couple boxes that still have "?" on them. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Bruce Kennewell) wrote: > The Pope will probably beatify it. Oh bollocks, there you go giving them ideas! Expect the next update to include screenies of their exquisitely modelled pope-mobile. Then his virtual Holiness will be able to come along and bless the cars as they're loaded onto the exquisitely modelled transporter ready to be driven ten miles along exquisitely modelled country lanes, stopping off at an exquisitely modelled picnic site for sarnies, before arriving at... Oh damn, they forgot to exquisitely model the track! There will be a slight delay in RL's release. Andrew McP... trying to resist the urge to give the Wests a good slap.

"EldredP" wrote... > > <snip> > > The "Phat" thing, or whatever? That sounds right for the standard item. You have to realise I'm going from memory here. > What did you do, get all the stars on the stunt > track? I can only get about 4 our of 20. > I haven't seen anything else yet that would get > me that car, although there are still a couple > boxes that still have "?" on them. Honestly, I don't really know. I'm not really an arcade expert so winning bonusses or getting sub-games (speaking generally here... don't know if Re-Volt has any sub-games) is just something that happens rather than anything I work at. It wasn't for getting all the stars on the stunt track, though, this is the first I hear of a stunt track being in the game. Wish I could be of more help, but I uninstalled it long ago. Sure was a fun game though... you've made me want to go back to it, but it would burn up too much time at the moment. Jan. =---

On 21 Oct 2003 05:32:05 -0700, [email hidden] (Bruce Millar) wrote:

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>> > I just groaned when I read October update - Chris West has spent the last >> > month fully detailing a 1968 car transporter - right down to a highly >> > detailed chassis! >> > >Perhaps someone here who is a game/software developer can comment on >the West's progress. That is, what parts of a complete game would be >developed in what order, and is RL progressing in any normal or >rational manner. The update even mentions a search for photos of the >bus interior, presumably so the interior can be rendered? Sounds >suspicious....

Chris is programming and Tony is creating graphics, so I think what you see is mostly Tony's work. He does seem to have a bit too much time on his hands though. ;-) Normally, given WSC's background, you'd expect the basics to be layed out pretty quickly. Some things will be redone entirely (like now driving entirely on a 3D patch-based system instead of polygons, like ISI does (they use an adaptive subdivision polygon method from the looks of it), and Gregor Veble's suspension system, but most things they've already though of (for WSC). So you'd expect somethign (at least a box) driving some kind of circuit pretty soon. I'm not sure how much impact the loss of the Empire source code has had, but you'd quickly go into a similar route for RL, so I imagine they must something driving pretty realistic by now. For me, building a race game would be a loop of: while(not satisfied) { - physics code - graphics code - user interface - audio } They must have something, only they're not showing it off. Ruud van Gaal Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/ Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

Somebody let me know if this thing ever really comes out. By the time they get it to fruition inflation alone will make too expensive..... By the way nice bus...... Kevin (aka tlgtr) **** "A GOOD friend will come bail you out of jail... but, a TRUE friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn we screwed up!!!!."

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>> What did you do, get all the stars on the stunt >> track? I can only get about 4 our of 20. >> I haven't seen anything else yet that would get >> me that car, although there are still a couple >> boxes that still have "?" on them. > >Honestly, I don't really know. I'm not really an arcade expert so winning >bonusses or getting sub-games (speaking generally here... don't know if >Re-Volt has any sub-games) is just something that happens rather than >anything I work at. It wasn't for getting all the stars on the stunt track, >though, this is the first I hear of a stunt track being in the game. > >Wish I could be of more help, but I uninstalled it long ago. Sure was a fun >game though... you've made me want to go back to it, but it would burn up >too much time at the moment. >

I went back to the single race mode(I'd been running Champ. mode). By winning all the races in each 'Cup', you get another car. Haven't gotten the one you mentioned yet, and I haven't been impressed with the ones I *have* gotten. Hey Chuck! Still playing this game? :-) Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[email hidden] (Ruud van Gaal) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > They must have something, only they're not showing it off. Yet they have a website with development updates, and they're not showing us anything... That's the weird thing I can't figure out. Why produce monthly updates which don't show us anything? Surely you either show off exactly where development is, or you just shut up until a few months before release? Showing us absolutely nothing in such a public way is only going to generate negativity in the interested parties (oh, except Doug E, who might actually be C&T's mother ;-) You never see them together, do you?

It could be a ploy to get investment money. Again if we use a realistic view it is simply not possible with the PCs of today to render those images realtime in a game environment. No game today comes 1/10 of to what they are proposing. Those are static 3D renders, nothing more. "Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > [email hidden] (Ruud van Gaal) wrote in messagenews:<[email hidden]>...

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> > They must have something, only they're not showing it off. > > Yet they have a website with development updates, and they're not > showing us anything... > > That's the weird thing I can't figure out. Why produce monthly updates > which don't show us anything? Surely you either show off exactly where > development is, or you just shut up until a few months before release? > Showing us absolutely nothing in such a public way is only going to > generate negativity in the interested parties (oh, except Doug E, who > might actually be C&T's mother ;-) > > You never see them together, do you?

On 22 Oct 2003 14:42:47 -0700, [email hidden] (Nick) wrote:

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>[email hidden] (Ruud van Gaal) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... >> They must have something, only they're not showing it off. > >Yet they have a website with development updates, and they're not >showing us anything... > >That's the weird thing I can't figure out. Why produce monthly updates >which don't show us anything? Surely you either show off exactly where >development is, or you just shut up until a few months before release?

I must confess that I can't quite follow their presentation strategy either. Next to a nice render of a bus I'd like to see the bus driving on the track, a bit like the old movies where you could see doors swing open, taking the hood off etc. I guess even those things are not really important, but a single movie that showed 2 or 3 cars driving together would be a nice thing to keep a lot of people quiet. >You never see them together, do you? They might have been assimilated by Gregor by now, so you might see them together but not realise it. :) Ruud van Gaal Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/ Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

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> > >You never see them together, do you? > > They might have been assimilated by Gregor by now, so you might see > them together but not realise it. :) > >

And then he will convince you that it makes sense in Quantum space :) Ash "Already Assimulated" McConnell http://www.siroccoracing.com

[email hidden] (Bruce Millar) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > Perhaps someone here who is a game/software developer can comment on > the West's progress. That is, what parts of a complete game would be > developed in what order, and is RL progressing in any normal or > rational manner. Well, I think most developers code 'stubs' and start at the bottom. That is, you layout the source framework at the start, but all the complex functions are just placeholders. So the code is full of functions which are little more than declarations: bool AmICrashingIntoAnything(Entity e) { return false; } That kinda stuff. So you get to a point where you have a working game but with not much actually happening. Then the artists know file formats and the underlying tech for animation, entities etc and can start building, while the coders begin to flesh out the skeleton with more useful function bodies which actually return useful answers. I have heard many, many amusing anecdotes about companies going bust because they didn't do it like this, they didn't build in increments, they just tried to code the whole damn lot in one go. (The Mythical Man-Month is a good book for this kind of thing). Compare Papyrus and the Wests. Papy have released ICR, ICR2, GPL, NASCAR 1, 2, 3, 4, NR2002, NR2003, NL. Each one has much better physics, graphics etc than the last, and that is why they are where they are. They ship, haul in some money, then write the next version. id Software are the same. There are tons of things that they want to put into the engine before release, but they force themselves to ship and put it all in the new one. The Wests try to write the best racing sim ever from nothing, and if history is anything to go by (looking at developers with the same strategy), it will never see the light of day. It's often said that when you've finished the first 90% of a game, you have to write the other 90%. I think the Wests will continue to add features, update their physics, update their graphics algorithms as new ideas come along, and never get to the point where they say, 'Right, enough is enough, we have to ship.' Whatever people say about publishers, they do ensure that products hit the shelves, and regardless of all the West/Empire sob stories, I'm pretty sure Empire realised the dire state they were in and pulled the plug. Any publisher would have done the same. Eidos stuck with Ion Storm because they knew Deus Ex was on it's way, but they pretty much gave up on Daikatana at a very early stage. If Deus Ex wasn't in development and progressing well, they probably would have dumped Ion Storm completely.

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:27:17 +0000 (UTC), "Ashley McConnell" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >> >> >You never see them together, do you? >> >> They might have been assimilated by Gregor by now, so you might see >> them together but not realise it. :) >> >> > >And then he will convince you that it makes sense in Quantum space :)

Hehe, I guess so. :) Next month's update will probably, next to Motorcycle Legends, also indicate the racing to Alfa Centauri should now also be possible through the modelling of Heisenberg compensators. ;-) And then modeling the starter button to see it all running for a change... Ruud van Gaal Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/ Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

On 23 Oct 2003 10:07:32 -0700, [email hidden] (Nick) wrote: >Compare Papyrus and the Wests. Papy have released ICR, ICR2, GPL, >NASCAR 1, 2, 3, 4, NR2002, NR2003, NL. You forgot Indy500 and RoadRash.... :-)

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> Each one has much better >physics, graphics etc than the last, and that is why they are where >they are. They ship, haul in some money, then write the next version. >id Software are the same. There are tons of things that they want to >put into the engine before release, but they force themselves to ship >and put it all in the new one. The Wests try to write the best racing >sim ever from nothing, and if history is anything to go by (looking at >developers with the same strategy), it will never see the light of >day. > >It's often said that when you've finished the first 90% of a game, you >have to write the other 90%. I think the Wests will continue to add >features, update their physics, update their graphics algorithms as >new ideas come along, and never get to the point where they say, >'Right, enough is enough, we have to ship.' Whatever people say about >publishers, they do ensure that products hit the shelves, and >regardless of all the West/Empire sob stories, I'm pretty sure Empire >realised the dire state they were in and pulled the plug. Any >publisher would have done the same. Eidos stuck with Ion Storm because >they knew Deus Ex was on it's way, but they pretty much gave up on >Daikatana at a very early stage. If Deus Ex wasn't in development and >progressing well, they probably would have dumped Ion Storm >completely.

You're so right. I do recall that Chris West already has rewritten code at least 2 or 3 times for the next DirectX. (Including WSC). They indeed need a clear development roadpath, and stick to it. The way they're working now, they're looking like the coyote trying to catch the roadrunnner.....meep meep... Cheers! Remco