How do you lower fuel in N3 Setup?

Is it just me or is it greyed out in everyones game? I dont' need 22 gallons of gas for an 18 lap race or so! how do you get it (and the weight) down??? __________________ "Welcome to America, the Great American Melting Pot!" (Pull handle to flush)

Read the manual... Just like in real life you are required to qualify and start the race with a full tank of fuel. The only time you can fill less than completely full is during a pit stop during the race, the only time this would be beneficial would be late in the race when needing a "splash and go" at which point the crew chief would already automatically be doing that anyway... -- ****************************************** www.splitrocktel.net/users/mopar57106 Sioux Falls Stampede-USHL Hockey www.sfstampede.com

On Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:06:32 GMT, "Mopar57106"

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>> Is it just me or is it greyed out in everyones game? I dont' need 22 >> gallons of gas for an 18 lap race or so! how do you get it (and the >> weight) down??? >Read the manual... >Just like in real life you are required to qualify and start the race with a >full tank of fuel. The only time you can fill less than completely full is >during a pit stop during the race, the only time this would be beneficial >would be late in the race when needing a "splash and go" at which point the >crew chief would already automatically be doing that anyway...

Something tells me that Nascar is the only racing series to require such a ludicrous rule... No one else that I can think of does. __________________ "Welcome to America, the Great American Melting Pot!" (Pull handle to flush)

<<Something tells me that Nascar is the only racing series to require such a ludicrous rule... No one else that I can think of does.>> There's no rule in NASCAR which states the teams must qualify on a full tank of fuel. The reason the teams do that is common sense, though... it's the easiest way to get the car up to the minimum weight specifications without adding ballast to the car. Nick _____________________________________________________________ #6, #99, #94 (& #17 in '00) in the quest for the Cup My home away from home... http://ntotoro.home.mindspring.com/ _____________________________________________________________

On Tue, 04 Jan 2000 20:09:42 GMT, "Nicholas Totoro"

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>Mykael wrote... > <<Something tells me that Nascar is the only racing series to require >such a ludicrous rule... No one else that I can think of does.>> > There's no rule in NASCAR which states the teams must qualify on a full >tank of fuel. The reason the teams do that is common sense, though... it's >the easiest way to get the car up to the minimum weight specifications >without adding ballast to the car.

Whoa.. hold on here a second! Minimum weight is generally taken before and at the end of the race to ensure that it meets it going into and coming out of the race. As far as I have ever read in the various rulebooks these weights don't change based on how much gas is in the car. They are just a dead set rule: IE: If it has to weigh 2,500lbs at the beginning of the race it also has to weigh 2,500lbs AFTER the race as it pulls off the track. This doesn't mean 'you can pull it off the track, add gas, then weigh it. Hence the minimum weight is set. To say that starting out with the minimum weight and ending the race with less would be akin to immediate disqualification in racing.. unless of course popularity would put a certain driver out on top which would draw more revenue from an exuberrent fan base which has often been implied in Nascar over the last 4 years. "The WWF/WCW of the auto racing world" as the bumper stickers proclaim... These accusations include such thing as 'tolerances and dimensions being ignored, slightly oversized restrictor plates, etc. This is, at least, hearsay from the various pits. Even with such things it would be hard to explain why they would brazenly allow a car to weigh well under minimum weight without proclaiming it as cheating. Remember, fuel averages 6.6-6.8lbs per gallon. That 22 gallon tank weighs in 145.2-149.6lbs not counting that in the carb, fuel line, etc. That is a heck of a jump from the minimum weight IF they needed the ballast to get it there in the first place. __________________ "Welcome to America, the Great American Melting Pot!" (Pull handle to flush)

Surely that would mean that after qualifying, and having used fuel to do so, the car would now be under the minimum weight???? Unless you can top up again before going to scrutineering? Steve > There's no rule in NASCAR which states the teams must qualify on a full

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>tank of fuel. The reason the teams do that is common sense, though... it's >the easiest way to get the car up to the minimum weight specifications >without adding ballast to the car. > Nick >_____________________________________________________________ >#6, #99, #94 (& #17 in '00) in the quest for the Cup >My home away from home... http://ntotoro.home.mindspring.com/ >_____________________________________________________________

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>Mykael wrote... > <<Something tells me that Nascar is the only racing series to require >such a ludicrous rule... No one else that I can think of does.>> > There's no rule in NASCAR which states the teams must qualify on a full >tank of fuel. The reason the teams do that is common sense, though... it's >the easiest way to get the car up to the minimum weight specifications >without adding ballast to the car. > Nick

Umm, ballast is an advantage, not a disadvantage. The whole idea of building an underweight car and using ballast is that you can put the weight of the ballast wherever it helps handling the most. There's only two places you can put a fuel cell on a full bodied car: in the***pit [insane] or in the trunk. Not to mention the fact that almost all sanctioning bodies specify their minimum wieghts be measured on empty cars. -- | "Instead of letting the moon be the Bill Mette | gateway to our future, we have let Enteract, Chicago | it become a brief chapter in our

I was wondering the same thing, maybe for different reasons. I would like to find an off-line league that lowers the amount of fuel available at the start of a race. That way pitting would come into play without having to run a very long race.

<<Surely that would mean that after qualifying, and having used fuel to do so, the car would now be under the minimum weight???? Unless you can top up again before going to scrutineering?>> Yes. When they go back through inspection, the car is filled with gas, the tires are brought to the Goodyear recommended pressure, etc. Nick _____________________________________________________________ #6, #99, #94 (& #17 in '00) in the quest for the Cup My home away from home... http://ntotoro.home.mindspring.com/ _____________________________________________________________

<<Whoa.. hold on here a second! Minimum weight is generally taken before and at the end of the race to ensure that it meets it going into and coming out of the race.>> They test before and after qualifying, too. They check weight, spoiler angle, valence ground clearance, etcetera. <<As far as I have ever read in the various rulebooks these weights don't change based on how much gas is in the car. They are just a dead set rule: IE: If it has to weigh 2,500lbs at the beginning of the race it also has to weigh 2,500lbs AFTER the race as it pulls off the track.>> I never said the car had to have a full tank of gas. I said a full tank of gas was the easiest way to get the car up to weight. It also helps handling. When stock cars get a little less weight in the rear of the car, the weight distribution causes the car to push a little more into the corners and get a little more loose off (more weight on the front tires). <<This doesn't mean 'you can pull it off the track, add gas, then weigh it. Hence the minimum weight is set.>> Yes it does. The sanctioning body fills the car with gas when they weigh it. If it's over, they don't care. Now, the weight also includes the weight of the driver in the interest of "parity" for drivers such as Jimmy Spencer, etc. It has made no difference, though. <<That 22 gallon tank weighs in 145.2-149.6lbs not counting that in the carb, fuel line, etc. That is a heck of a jump from the minimum weight IF they needed the ballast to get it there in the first place.>> They use the weight of the fuel to get to the minimum weight, though. It makes sense when you consider that. The first place the cars head is to the gas pumps before they get on the scale. The bring up the tire pressure now, too. A few years ago, the #6, #24 & #99 all finished in the top five at the February Richmond race (1996, I believe). They were all 1/8" under the minimum ride height. Jack Roush told them to bring the cars to Goodyear's recommended tire pressure, then measure the cars. They were fine after that. Apparently, they had sat in the cold so long before post-race inspection that the pressure when drastically down... typical of even a street radial tire. Nick _____________________________________________________________ #6, #99, #94 (& #17 in '00) in the quest for the Cup My home away from home... http://ntotoro.home.mindspring.com/ _____________________________________________________________

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> On Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:06:32 GMT, "Mopar57106" > >> Is it just me or is it greyed out in everyones game? I dont' need 22 > >> gallons of gas for an 18 lap race or so! how do you get it (and the > >> weight) down??? > >Read the manual... > >Just like in real life you are required to qualify and start the race

with a > >full tank of fuel. The only time you can fill less than completely full is > >during a pit stop during the race, the only time this would be beneficial > >would be late in the race when needing a "splash and go" at which point the > >crew chief would already automatically be doing that anyway... > Something tells me that Nascar is the only racing series to require > such a ludicrous rule... No one else that I can think of does. The rules are the rules. And Papyrus makes you play by them. Joel Willstein

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's a rule. If it wasn't do you really think that they would just put all that weight in the middle of the rear to make min wieight specs. No way. They would distribute as needed. Joel Willstein

Let me get this straight, you're saying that the car can be underweight when qualifying, but can be topped up again by the pit crew before the technical inspection that follows immediately after the qual lap? Now, does that sound logical? I think you must have some wires crossed somewhere. Remember, underweight really does mean not inside the rules, not an optional extra. Steve >Stephen Barnett wrote... > <<Surely that would mean that after qualifying, and having used fuel to

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>do so, the car would now be under the minimum weight???? Unless you can top >up again before going to scrutineering?>> > Yes. When they go back through inspection, the car is filled with gas, >the tires are brought to the Goodyear recommended pressure, etc. > Nick >_____________________________________________________________ >#6, #99, #94 (& #17 in '00) in the quest for the Cup >My home away from home... http://ntotoro.home.mindspring.com/ >_____________________________________________________________

On Wed, 05 Jan 2000 13:52:36 GMT, "Nicholas Totoro"

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>Stephen Barnett wrote... > <<Surely that would mean that after qualifying, and having used fuel to >do so, the car would now be under the minimum weight???? Unless you can top >up again before going to scrutineering?>> > Yes. When they go back through inspection, the car is filled with gas, >the tires are brought to the Goodyear recommended pressure, etc. > Nick

Say WHAT?!?! Uhmm.. No. They are taken straight from the track to tech inspection. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Otherwise they can easly drop a 50lb led weight in there or something. They are not even allowed to play with tire pressures. The tech inspections are done 'as the car is raced' not 'after the car is tinkered with.' Suggesting otherwise is ludicrous. __________________ Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat drinking beer all day.

On Wed, 05 Jan 2000 14:03:49 GMT, "Nicholas Totoro"

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>Mykael wrote... > <<Whoa.. hold on here a second! Minimum weight is generally taken >before and at the end of the race to ensure that it meets it going into and >coming out of the race.>> > They test before and after qualifying, too. They check weight, spoiler >angle, valence ground clearance, etcetera.

Yes, they check weight. They also take it at the end of the race. If it required full tanks to get to minimum weight then obviously the car would be below minimum weight after qualifying or racing. Hence, no, that's not a logical reason. Fuel levels don't play into qualification rules that I am aware of. It can't be the easiest way to get it 'up to weight' since if it is empty and the empty weight is below minimum then the car is illegal. There is no way around that. It can be used for weight distribution as you mention and even then the best designs limit the amount of change that the altered levels will affect and will usually try to put it as close to the middle as they can. I can't recall ever seeing the sanctioning body go up to the car with a fuel tank to fill it after a race or after qualifying. Where in the hell did you get this? It still goes back to the simple logic that if the car is not able to make the weight when empty (the empty weight is what is considered) then it won't be legal for racing. If they take the weight of the car as it comes off the track and it's gas is down enough that the weight is now below minimum that car is cheating and is DQ'd. Game over. The first place the cars go is to impound where NO one but the tech inspection team can touch them save for the odd winning car that goes to Victory Lane. Even then the car is watched carefully to ensure no one does anything to it. That is technically quite stupid. If they raced with the vehicles under minimum ride height as they came off the track they should be DQ'd. Period. End of discussion. If it took tinkering after the fact to make them legal then the tech team inspection is a farce. That's like saying "Hey, you just won the race but yoru car is 400lbs under minimum weight! Here, have some ballast and bring it up to minimum!". Then again, if this is actually the way that Nascar works it's no wonder it deserves the reputation of the WWF/WCW of the autoracing world. __________________ Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat drinking beer all day.

>It's like trying to explain something to a rock. I haven't been following this thread, but I dropped in tonight and must say I know EXACTLY how this feels. ~daxe -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

> On Tue, 04 Jan 2000 20:09:42 GMT, "Nicholas Totoro" > >Mykael wrote... > > <<Something tells me that Nascar is the only racing series to require > >such a ludicrous rule... No one else that I can think of does.>> > > There's no rule in NASCAR which states the teams must qualify on a full > >tank of fuel. The reason the teams do that is common sense, though... it's

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> >the easiest way to get the car up to the minimum weight specifications > >without adding ballast to the car. > Whoa.. hold on here a second! Minimum weight is generally taken before > and at the end of the race to ensure that it meets it going into and > coming out of the race. As far as I have ever read in the various > rulebooks these weights don't change based on how much gas is in the > car. They are just a dead set rule: IE: If it has to weigh 2,500lbs at > the beginning of the race it also has to weigh 2,500lbs AFTER the race > as it pulls off the track. This doesn't mean 'you can pull it off the > track, add gas, then weigh it. Hence the minimum weight is set.

In all actuality the cars are filled with a full tank of fuel at the end of the race, then weighed again to ensure the teams are at the required weight... I've been following NASCAR for 20 years and am aware of the rules regarding the level of fuel required for qualifying sessions and weight purposes. -- ****************************************** www.splitrocktel.net/users/mopar57106 Sioux Falls Stampede-USHL Hockey www.sfstampede.com

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> On Wed, 05 Jan 2000 14:03:49 GMT, "Nicholas Totoro" > >Mykael wrote... > > <<Whoa.. hold on here a second! Minimum weight is generally taken > >before and at the end of the race to ensure that it meets it going into

and > >coming out of the race.>> > > They test before and after qualifying, too. They check weight, spoiler

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> >angle, valence ground clearance, etcetera. > Yes, they check weight. They also take it at the end of the race. If > it required full tanks to get to minimum weight then obviously the car > would be below minimum weight after qualifying or racing. Hence, no, > that's not a logical reason. Fuel levels don't play into qualification > rules that I am aware of. > > <<As far as I have ever read in the various rulebooks these weights > >don't change based on how much gas is in the car. They are just a dead

set > >rule: IE: If it has to weigh 2,500lbs at > >the beginning of the race it also has to weigh 2,500lbs AFTER the race as it > >pulls off the track.>> > > I never said the car had to have a full tank of gas. I said a full tank > >of gas was the easiest way to get the car up to weight. It also helps > >handling. When stock cars get a little less weight in the rear of the car,

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> >the weight distribution causes the car to push a little more into the > >corners and get a little more loose off (more weight on the front tires). > It can't be the easiest way to get it 'up to weight' since if it is > empty and the empty weight is below minimum then the car is illegal. > There is no way around that. It can be used for weight distribution as > you mention and even then the best designs limit the amount of change > that the altered levels will affect and will usually try to put it as > close to the middle as they can. > > <<This doesn't mean 'you can pull it off the track, add gas, then

weigh > >it. Hence the minimum weight is set.>> > > Yes it does. The sanctioning body fills the car with gas when they > >weigh it. If it's over, they don't care. Now, the weight also includes the > >weight of the driver in the interest of "parity" for drivers such as Jimmy > >Spencer, etc. It has made no difference, though. > I can't recall ever seeing the sanctioning body go up to the car with > a fuel tank to fill it after a race or after qualifying. Where in the > hell did you get this? They go to the actual Tosco fuel pumps present at every track WC (Winston Cup) races at...they then open the trunk lid and fill the tank through the lid on top of the fuel cell...they rarely show this on TV because quite frankly it's not very high on the e***ment scale. It's like trying to explain something to a rock. You should just accept the fact that you can't change the level of fuel for those instances and that no one else can either so they're not getting away with something that you're not... -- ****************************************** www.splitrocktel.net/users/mopar57106 Sioux Falls Stampede-USHL Hockey www.sfstampede.com

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>> On Wed, 05 Jan 2000 14:03:49 GMT, "Nicholas Totoro" >> >Mykael wrote... >> > <<Whoa.. hold on here a second! Minimum weight is generally taken >> >before and at the end of the race to ensure that it meets it going into >and >> >coming out of the race.>> >> > They test before and after qualifying, too. They check weight, >spoiler >> >angle, valence ground clearance, etcetera. >> Yes, they check weight. They also take it at the end of the race. If >> it required full tanks to get to minimum weight then obviously the car >> would be below minimum weight after qualifying or racing. Hence, no, >> that's not a logical reason. Fuel levels don't play into qualification >> rules that I am aware of. >> > <<As far as I have ever read in the various rulebooks these weights >> >don't change based on how much gas is in the car. They are just a dead >set >> >rule: IE: If it has to weigh 2,500lbs at >> >the beginning of the race it also has to weigh 2,500lbs AFTER the race as >it >> >pulls off the track.>> >> > I never said the car had to have a full tank of gas. I said a full >tank >> >of gas was the easiest way to get the car up to weight. It also helps >> >handling. When stock cars get a little less weight in the rear of the >car, >> >the weight distribution causes the car to push a little more into the >> >corners and get a little more loose off (more weight on the front tires). >> It can't be the easiest way to get it 'up to weight' since if it is >> empty and the empty weight is below minimum then the car is illegal. >> There is no way around that. It can be used for weight distribution as >> you mention and even then the best designs limit the amount of change >> that the altered levels will affect and will usually try to put it as >> close to the middle as they can. >> > <<This doesn't mean 'you can pull it off the track, add gas, then >weigh >> >it. Hence the minimum weight is set.>> >> > Yes it does. The sanctioning body fills the car with gas when they >> >weigh it. If it's over, they don't care. Now, the weight also includes >the >> >weight of the driver in the interest of "parity" for drivers such as >Jimmy >> >Spencer, etc. It has made no difference, though. >> I can't recall ever seeing the sanctioning body go up to the car with >> a fuel tank to fill it after a race or after qualifying. Where in the >> hell did you get this? >They go to the actual Tosco fuel pumps present at every track WC (Winston >Cup) races at...they then open the trunk lid and fill the tank through the >lid on top of the fuel cell...they rarely show this on TV because quite >frankly it's not very high on the e***ment scale. >It's like trying to explain something to a rock. >You should just accept the fact that you can't change the level of fuel for >those instances and that no one else can either so they're not getting away >with something that you're not...

I've not seen much of NASCAR, being in the UK, but it seems obvious to my why they need to refill the fuel cells after the race to check for minimum weight. Without a full fuel cell then all kinds of weight cheating/tinkering could go on. If there was no inclusion of a full fuel cell then how would you know what the real weight of the car is - one car is going to weigh more than another depending upon how much fuel it has at the end of a race. So a clever team could run their car lighter than the others for most of the race and then put a bit more fuel in than is required in the last stint to finish the race so as to guarantee that the car will be heavy enough to pass the weight inspection. -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

If minimum weight at tech before race & Qual. includes a full 22 gallon cell which everyone must have.... then obviously the post race (&Qual) inspection includes the same. BTW NASCAR also has rules concerning the amount of lead ballast that may be used, where it may be used and minimum weights (or percentages of total weight) that must be on each corner. They do more than check the weight they use scales on all 4 corners of the car. (Don't use NO***in E-mail) You think in the storm we've found the eye of the calm.....Bill Mallonnee, Vigilantes Of Love