Nascar 3 sucks

I've been playing (or should I say: trying to play) N3 for 4 weeks now. And I just don't get into it. I can never keep up with the AI (at 99% or higher). I want to like the game, but I just can't. By now I really hate those stupid (small) circuits. It's all so slow. Dull. Boring. No sense of speed whatsoever. Nascar 3 suck IMHO. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who feel the same way, but are afraid to tell! So if feel like me and you're reading this, let me tell you, you are NOT a moron, stupid, crazy or whatever. N3 just isn't everyone's cup of tea. I've had lot's of fun with Grand Prix 1 (on the Atari!) and GP 2, F1RS, Toca 2 and of course a lot of other arcade driving games (the Screamer series, the NFS games, Motorhead (now there's speed!), and lately Midtown Madness and Driver (yeah, I know, N3 lovers (and don't even mention GPL fanatics!) usually spit on these games). I LIKE those games. I play them because they are fun. Aren't computer games meant to be fun? I dont' know why I post this message. Maybe I'm just fed up with the arrogant 'I'm-a-GPL-fanatic-and-you-suck-if-you-don't-like-sims' attitude. Or maybe I'm trying to give hope to those people (like me) who post desperate messages that they can't succeed in GPL or N3 (games are supposed to be fun!). Or maybe I'd just like to get some opinions of other anti-N3 fellow drivers, so I don't feel a failure and so alone in this newsgroup... Hm, this message is getting out of hand. I didn't mean to sound so desperate. Because I ain't. But I'll post it anyway. Let's see how long this thread becomes :-) Jeroen P.S. I love Talladega though. At 99% AI. And realistic settings (wow!). It's almost an arcade game: great fun and real speed! ;-)

out In my opinion Nascar (in general) sucks. But thats just my opinion. GPL is for hard core sim racers ONLY. There are programs to slow down the AI, but it doesn't matter if you slow down the AI, if you can't stay on the track without wiping out. GPL has a great physics model, but the AI is on rails, and they will run into you if you aren't careful. I think the reason Papy didn't make a easy setting is because you'd see how poor the AI drives. You are not alone. I enjoy GPL, but I also enjoy motorhead, NFS (although the AI flat out cheats), and Monaco.

It seems to me from your description that you enjoy arcade style racing. Nothing wrong with that at all. I enjoy Need for Speed once in awhile. Problem is, this newsgroup is kind of devoted to simulations. People who are into sims want things as close to real life as they can get it. I love Nascar3, and don't care much for GPL, CART, F1, etc. Doesn't bother me that people on all sides of racing genres badmouth each other either. Nascar advocates think Formula 1, et al, amounts to a parade with no side by side racing. Formula 1 folks think turning left all the time is stupid. Has a lot to do with what you were raised on. Each type of racing has nuances that have to be mastered to become any good at them. It all boils down to different strokes for different folks.

You're not real. This is a joke, right? Tell me this is a joke.

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> I've been playing (or should I say: trying to play) N3 for 4 weeks now. And > I just don't get into it. I can never keep up with the AI (at 99% or > higher). I want to like the game, but I just can't. By now I really hate > those stupid (small) circuits. It's all so slow. Dull. Boring. No sense of > speed whatsoever. Nascar 3 suck IMHO. I'm sure there are a lot of people out > there who feel the same way, but are afraid to tell! So if feel like me and > you're reading this, let me tell you, you are NOT a moron, stupid, crazy or > whatever. N3 just isn't everyone's cup of tea. I've had lot's of fun with > Grand Prix 1 (on the Atari!) and GP 2, F1RS, Toca 2 and of course a lot of > other arcade driving games (the Screamer series, the NFS games, Motorhead > (now there's speed!), and lately Midtown Madness and Driver (yeah, I know, > N3 lovers (and don't even mention GPL fanatics!) usually spit on these > games). I LIKE those games. I play them because they are fun. Aren't > computer games meant to be fun? I dont' know why I post this message. Maybe > I'm just fed up with the arrogant > 'I'm-a-GPL-fanatic-and-you-suck-if-you-don't-like-sims' attitude. Or maybe > I'm trying to give hope to those people (like me) who post desperate > messages that they can't succeed in GPL or N3 (games are supposed to be > fun!). Or maybe I'd just like to get some opinions of other anti-N3 fellow > drivers, so I don't feel a failure and so alone in this newsgroup... Hm, > this message is getting out of hand. I didn't mean to sound so desperate. > Because I ain't. But I'll post it anyway. Let's see how long this thread > becomes :-) > Jeroen > P.S. I love Talladega though. At 99% AI. And realistic settings (wow!). It's > almost an arcade game: great fun and real speed! ;-)

-- Bob Curtin Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

Why dont you just buy a playstation...way cheaper than a computer. :)

Jeroen, I have watched you suffer for some time now. Allow me to ask you a question: how long have you been driving Racing Sims? If one's not naturally gifted (like myself, and, I'm afraid: you) it takes an extra-ordinary amount of time to get anywhere near good. I'm at 2000 hours and counting and I haven't won in N3 or GPL (against max AI) yet. I do own a couple of online victories in GPL (hard works pays off in consistency ;-)). If you're in the early phase of your simracing "career" I see no reason for you to torture yourself by playing GPL or going up against 99% AI in N3. You've still got to train your senses into the suspension of disbelief (totally tricking your body into feeling the car and the road instead of being stationary in front of a monitor) which you will need to take these simulated vehicles to the limit without actually overworking your virtual tyres. You need to accumulate seat time and no way are you going to get enough if you're not enjoying the experience. Turn down the AI in N3 or go for an easier sim. GP2 is very configurable, but ultimately does not allow one to totally drop steering help IMO. F1RS and MGPRS (the Ubisoft ones) are good, but you can spend ages running into brick walls if you get the setups wrong. ICR2 is a Papy product and so was / is seriously hard core. However it has adjustable AI and therefore should offer fewer difficulties than GPL. Winning on the ovals against the 100% AI is perfectly feasable once you get used to their quircks. Nascar is a very unfortunate sport to set out in. It takes a special mindset not become impatient and extract the maximum from these machines (that sticker on the cage is there for a very good reason). Us European road racers think we have a patent on smooth. Us Europeans are WRONG... if you've not come up through the dirt track ranks you're gonna have a hell of time adjusting to Nascar (and roast a lot of tyres in the process). After driving GPL (and I think I'm pretty smooth in that one) for a while I can't get into N3 and run anywhere near competitively from the off. Hope this helps or at least gets you thinking... there's already too many people playing Need for Speed. Jan. ----

So in the future don't buy N4! Anyway patience is the key here and why not lowering the AI then? I my self enjoy racing N3 at 100% AI, and it's hard but the point is not to be 1st all the time I'm happy when I get my lap back... But if a game ain't fun for you just switch to something else... not necessarily to another game... Seen Revolt? -- Oliver Nikolic DP-MAX Computers http://www.dp-max.co.yu/ BeoRocket Racing Team (retired) http://www.beorocket.co.yu/

gp2, go to joystick options screen, you can turn off the steering help, adjust the null zone(low figures are more realistic), turn off the speed sensitivity (its a sliding scale, keep it at 0), and turn off the opposite lock help, then you dont have any aids guiding you around....the phys in this game is better then Nascar 3, wheelspin only occurs when the available traction isnt enough to stop the wheels from spinning, unlike n3 where 70%throttle does the trick from stationary.... the phys for icr2 on non ovals is poor (but it is ok on the ovals) pez > Jeroen, > I have watched you suffer for some time now. Allow me to ask you a question: > how long have you been driving Racing Sims? > If one's not naturally gifted (like myself, and, I'm afraid: you) it takes > an extra-ordinary amount of time to get anywhere near good. I'm at 2000 > hours and counting and I haven't won in N3 or GPL (against max AI) yet. I do > own a couple of online victories in GPL (hard works pays off in consistency > ;-)). > If you're in the early phase of your simracing "career" I see no reason for

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> you to torture yourself by playing GPL or going up against 99% AI in N3. > You've still got to train your senses into the suspension of disbelief > (totally tricking your body into feeling the car and the road instead of > being stationary in front of a monitor) which you will need to take these > simulated vehicles to the limit without actually overworking your virtual > tyres. You need to accumulate seat time and no way are you going to get > enough if you're not enjoying the experience. > Turn down the AI in N3 or go for an easier sim. GP2 is very configurable, > but ultimately does not allow one to totally drop steering help IMO. F1RS > and MGPRS (the Ubisoft ones) are good, but you can spend ages running into > brick walls if you get the setups wrong. ICR2 is a Papy product and so was

/ > is seriously hard core. However it has adjustable AI and therefore should > offer fewer difficulties than GPL. Winning on the ovals against the 100% AI > is perfectly feasable once you get used to their quircks. > Nascar is a very unfortunate sport to set out in. It takes a special mindset > not become impatient and extract the maximum from these machines (that > sticker on the cage is there for a very good reason). Us European road > racers think we have a patent on smooth. Us Europeans are WRONG... if you've > not come up through the dirt track ranks you're gonna have a hell of time > adjusting to Nascar (and roast a lot of tyres in the process). After driving > GPL (and I think I'm pretty smooth in that one) for a while I can't get into

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> N3 and run anywhere near competitively from the off. > Hope this helps or at least gets you thinking... there's already too many > people playing Need for Speed. > Jan. > ---- > > I've been playing (or should I say: trying to play) N3 for 4 weeks now. > And > > I just don't get into it. <snip>

DAMN!!!Who issued you common sense???Refreshing, Paul.

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> It seems to me from your description that you enjoy arcade style racing. > Nothing wrong with that at all. I enjoy Need for Speed once in awhile. > Problem is, this newsgroup is kind of devoted to simulations. People who > are into sims want things as close to real life as they can get it. I love > Nascar3, and don't care much for GPL, CART, F1, etc. Doesn't bother me that > people on all sides of racing genres badmouth each other either. Nascar > advocates think Formula 1, et al, amounts to a parade with no side by side > racing. Formula 1 folks think turning left all the time is stupid. Has a > lot to do with what you were raised on. Each type of racing has nuances > that have to be mastered to become any good at them. It all boils down to > different strokes for different folks. > > I've been playing (or should I say: trying to play) N3 for 4 weeks now. > And > > I just don't get into it. I can never keep up with the AI (at 99% or > > higher). I want to like the game, but I just can't. By now I really hate > > those stupid (small) circuits. It's all so slow. Dull. Boring. No sense of > > speed whatsoever. Nascar 3 suck IMHO. I'm sure there are a lot of people > out > > there who feel the same way, but are afraid to tell! So if feel like me > and > > you're reading this, let me tell you, you are NOT a moron, stupid, crazy > or > > whatever. N3 just isn't everyone's cup of tea. I've had lot's of fun with > > Grand Prix 1 (on the Atari!) and GP 2, F1RS, Toca 2 and of course a lot of > > other arcade driving games (the Screamer series, the NFS games, Motorhead > > (now there's speed!), and lately Midtown Madness and Driver (yeah, I know, > > N3 lovers (and don't even mention GPL fanatics!) usually spit on these > > games). I LIKE those games. I play them because they are fun. Aren't > > computer games meant to be fun? I dont' know why I post this message. > Maybe > > I'm just fed up with the arrogant > > 'I'm-a-GPL-fanatic-and-you-suck-if-you-don't-like-sims' attitude. Or maybe > > I'm trying to give hope to those people (like me) who post desperate > > messages that they can't succeed in GPL or N3 (games are supposed to be > > fun!). Or maybe I'd just like to get some opinions of other anti-N3 fellow > > drivers, so I don't feel a failure and so alone in this newsgroup... Hm, > > this message is getting out of hand. I didn't mean to sound so desperate. > > Because I ain't. But I'll post it anyway. Let's see how long this thread > > becomes :-) > > Jeroen > > P.S. I love Talladega though. At 99% AI. And realistic settings (wow!). > It's > > almost an arcade game: great fun and real speed! ;-)

Like anything else in life it takes time, I started N1 at 75% but when I stopped driving N2/99 I was beating ai at 107% at Bristol, now thats fun. Uhh, did I just say Bristol? not nearly as boring as one line drafting at Talledega All driving games are fun, just different. Of course I am biased, I only drive GPL. JM

OK. What sims do they have better AI than GPL? Let me know. Of course it's inferior to good human racers, but I think one of the best AI. Are you "crying for the moon"? =) Y.Minami

Sigh... I should have known. YES, you can turn it off, it's just, IMO, you can't really do without. The game's response is not precise and consistent enough, again IMO. Jan. ---- > gp2, go to joystick options screen, you can turn off the steering help, > adjust the null zone(low figures are more realistic), turn off the speed > sensitivity (its a sliding scale, keep it at 0), and turn off the opposite > lock help, then you dont have any aids guiding you around....the phys in > this game is better then Nascar 3, wheelspin only occurs when the available

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> traction isnt enough to stop the wheels from spinning, unlike n3 where > 70%throttle does the trick from stationary.... > the phys for icr2 on non ovals is poor (but it is ok on the ovals) > pez > > <snip>

Well, once you've mastered something it becomes difficult to imagine how troublesome the learning process can be. I too find it very hard to believe how little progress Jeroen has made, but as he's new to the game (and, I think, to Nascar), we should allow time for him to learn and develop his skills. Meanwhile, we should make sure he doesn't become disheartened. The "simulation scene" being as it is, I don't think we can afford to scare off new people getting into the sport. Jan. ----

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> You're not real. This is a joke, right? Tell me this is a joke. > > <snip> > -- > Bob Curtin > Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange > http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ > "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green,

baggy > skin"

You're not a failure. I'm slow in N3 as well. At least on a lot of tracks. My only real achievement is getting a 171 once at Darlington. Mostly I'm in the low 170's there. Any looser a car and I can't manage traffic. Anyway... I hate arcade racers... they're fun for the first hour or so, but the fun quickly fades... they're just too shallow. On the other hand I'm not the type of individual who has the patience to spend three or four hours straight on a track trying to unlock it's secrets and find the perfect lap time. A lot of folks do that and any praise they receive from other sim-heads is certainly deserved, but for those of us that just like to run the tracks rather than memorizing every pebble in the virtual asphault all that practice just becomes an excercise in boredom and frustration. What I do is run the tracks I like best; I never play seasons, BTW. I do practice sessions with the AI cars and when I'm having fun I may spend up to half an hour or so. I check out my best *consistent* laptimes. I then turn up or down the RELS setting in the corresponding track text file; I never touch the Opponent Strength setting in the race weekend menu. It's always 100%. I adjust the RELS so that I'm competitive. That's all. If I can run consistent low 170's at Darlington, then I want the fastest cars running low 171's or so with me perhaps in the fastest part of the middle of the field. That's realistic. As long as I can hang with traffic (no easy feat at Darlington, I might add :) then I'm doing well. If I don't win, f*ck it. Jarrett hasn't won every race this season either, but he's still way ahead in the points. The whole point is just to have fun. I've found that one way ruining the fun is judging myself against others. That's the best way to ruin just about anything. I even quit programming a year or so ago because I used to judge myself against what other programmers were doing. That's one bit of advice I can pass along, because it seems that that's what you're doing. Don't worry about others, whether it's their laptimes or what they may think of you not liking GPL and N3. Err... hmmm... feels like I'm writing an essay at this point... Jeezzusss... well, anyway, just f*ckin' have fun don't f*ckin' worry alright? Great! Later! > I've been playing (or should I say: trying to play) N3 for 4 weeks now. And > I just don't get into it. I can never keep up with the AI (at 99% or []

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> Because I ain't. But I'll post it anyway. Let's see how long this thread > becomes :-) > Jeroen > P.S. I love Talladega though. At 99% AI. And realistic settings (wow!). It's > almost an arcade game: great fun and real speed! ;-)

-- -----------------------------------+---------------------------------- ICQ #: 18197225 | http://members.xoom.com/morganv/ -----------------------------------+----------------------------------

Viper racing. SCGT AI is pretty good, but does exhibit some problems, like if you stop right in front of them they'll sometimes stop as well and wait for a little bit for you to go. No racecar driver is gonna do that. Yeah, Viper and SCGT is very good. No rails, cars actually bounce and move realistically, and they frequently make mistakes. > OK. What sims do they have better AI than GPL? Let me know. > Of course it's inferior to good human racers, but I think > one of the best AI. > Are you "crying for the moon"? =) > Y.Minami -- -----------------------------------+---------------------------------- ICQ #: 18197225 | http://members.xoom.com/morganv/ -----------------------------------+----------------------------------

Nice to see all those different reactions! :-) Jan: I've been playing racing games since 1989. So I don't consider myself a newbie! I don't think I have ever played a game as much and for so long as Grand Prix (1) on my Atari 1024 ST, which was considered the sim of sims at that time. As someone said: arcade games are fun, but after seeing the beautiful graphics for a few laps and unlocking everything there is to unlock, the fun is usually over. Nice for a ride every now and then, but not something you play every day. This year I played a lot of Toca 2 (sim or arcade...?). At first I couldn't finish a single lap but after some practice I became pretty good (I'd like to think that anyway :-). And now the game is SO easy. Incredible. But still fun (specially when running an (offline) championship: became nr. 2 twice in the final standings!). Anyway, in the past 10 years I mastered every game I played. Except Nascar 3. That's what got me frustrated. But not too much, really. As I said, I wasn't as desperate as I sounded in my first message: I also liked to see what reactions a message titled 'Nascar 3 sucks' would get :-) The funny thing is, I keep on coming back to N3, because I WANT to get it under control. And I guess that's what makes a game good... I think it's indeed time to relax and enjoy the game, instead of trying to be as good as everyone else is/seems to be! Maybe that way I will finally make some progress. And if not: who cares, as long as I have fun! Jeroen P.S. Don't flame me when I'll post another frustrated message tonight, after being kicked off the tracked once again ;-)

I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I feel the AI is better is MGPRS2. They are not as fast as the AI in GPL, but they will not slam into the back of your car at every turn. The AI in MGPRS2 also will not slam into you if you are trying to pass and the racing line crosses under your car, like the AI in GPL. Also the AI will pull over for you if you lap them in MGPRS2 (as they as supposed to do, by current rules). Basicly I feel the AI is more aware of whats around them in MGPRS2.

I have my doubts on the Viper Racing AI... When you get taken out by an AI car approcahing you from the rear quarter, he's on the outside, plenty of spare room in the turn and they just give you a light *tap* on the bumper and off the track you fly! Maybe they're not stupid, just MEAN!!! :-) /petern

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>Viper racing. SCGT AI is pretty good, but does exhibit some problems, like if >you stop right in front of them they'll sometimes stop as well and wait for a >little bit for you to go. No racecar driver is gonna do that. Yeah, Viper and >SCGT is very good. No rails, cars actually bounce and move realistically, and >they frequently make mistakes. >> OK. What sims do they have better AI than GPL? Let me know. >> Of course it's inferior to good human racers, but I think >> one of the best AI. >> Are you "crying for the moon"? =) >> Y.Minami

They're a bit on the wussy side, but they're ok, I agree. The AI in GPL doesn't hit me from behind much nowadays, since I learned how to set brake balance and perform the act of braking properly. But it has taken me nearly a year, so... Jan. ----

That's more like it. However, the opposite now applies. A simracer of your experience level should have made more progress in the game by now(unless you just don't get it... in wich case a serious amount of surfing Nascar simulation related sites is in order). My advise: Have a qualified person (or do it yourself, if you're qualified) make an indepth technical inspection of your racing setup (wheel / gamecard). I "inexplicably" lost speed in GPL a while back (unfortunately it coincided with the 1.1 release which made me suspect a timing bug at first). Turns out I had a calibration problem with my throttle which only gave me like 93% full throttle in the sim. That translates to a full second at the Glen.... Jan. ----

Exactly! That's what I thought too! And that's why I was frustrated yesterday! Did two races tonight. I learned 2 things: short races aren't Nascar races and you need patience. You need time and patience to plan every action: a 10 or 20 lap race isn't even enough to get the wheels at the right temperature. So now I tried some 25% races, one at Bristol (of all small places!), 124 laps, and one at Indianapolis, 40 laps. AI at a comfortable 98%, 24 cars participating and damage to arcade (so I had a change to finish the race and get some experience...). Started at the back of the grid to get some more experience with the car beside car action. The Bristol race I ended up 11th (yep, I didn't crash, not really bad anyway) and at Indy I won. Became nr. 1 after 30 laps. Both races ended with (one or two) tires in the yellow (specially Bristol): I still haven't found out how to stop the tires from screeching... At Indy the 98% AI was very clear: during the middle of the race I was MUCH faster. And in the end I became very slow, but they didn't (dare to?) overtake me: I could block them far too easily. In real life I would have been passed by half the pack, I think. Anyway, the most important thing is: I had fun! Most N3 fanatics will laugh at my results, using the above mentioned settings, but I had a good time and a great race. So there is still hope for me :-) I wish N3 had more controller options (like there are in Toca 2: N3 is VERY basic in this regard). For instance, I'd like to change the settings for full deflection (changing this in Toca seemed to improved my times a little, so there might indeed be a problem there). I have a Thrustmaster GrandPrix 1 wheel. Maybe I might try the Papyrus driver instead of the DirectX one. Don't know what the difference is though... Well, that was a lot typing. Once again. Seems like I spend more time talking about N3 than playing it :-) BTW About your 'surfing Nascar simulation related sites' remark: could you advice some sites with good advice? Jeroen

There you go. If it's fun for you, who's to say whether that's wrong or right? You paid for the game and it's your right to play it the way you choose. Gamer Man

I was irritated by that for a long while until I realized that real drivers do sometimes do that. Maybe they are mean. ;)

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> I have my doubts on the Viper Racing AI... > When you get taken out by an AI car approcahing you from the rear > quarter, he's on the outside, plenty of spare room in the turn and > they just give you a light *tap* on the bumper and off the track you > fly! Maybe they're not stupid, just MEAN!!! :-) > /petern

-- -----------------------------------+---------------------------------- ICQ #: 18197225 | http://members.xoom.com/morganv/ -----------------------------------+----------------------------------

That's probably a hardware problem, Jan. I used to go 100% races in GP2 with no helps or aids whatsoever without having any trouble steering. I remember once doing a 100% race at Aida in an offline league without doing any driver errors at all, and... I beat Ian Lake in that race :o))), with three seconds I think it was :o). /Christer

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>Sigh... I should have known. >YES, you can turn it off, it's just, IMO, you can't really do without. The >game's response is not precise and consistent enough, again IMO. >Jan. >---- >> gp2, go to joystick options screen, you can turn off the steering help, >> adjust the null zone(low figures are more realistic), turn off the speed >> sensitivity (its a sliding scale, keep it at 0), and turn off the

opposite

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>> lock help, then you dont have any aids guiding you around....the phys in >> this game is better then Nascar 3, wheelspin only occurs when the >available >> traction isnt enough to stop the wheels from spinning, unlike n3 where >> 70%throttle does the trick from stationary.... >> the phys for icr2 on non ovals is poor (but it is ok on the ovals) >> pez >> > <snip>

>I too find it very hard to believe how little progress Jeroen has made, but >as he's new to the game (and, I think, to Nascar), we should allow time for >him to learn and develop his skills. Meanwhile, we should make sure he >doesn't become disheartened. He said he's playing at 99% AI. If he gets disheartened, it's not really the games fault. I generally agree with his summation, though. I'm tired of N3 after a very short time, and back to Viper, SODA and SCGT. Most of the new "arcade" racers have more realistic vehicle dynamics than this "sim". Tim

There is nothing funny about a good result, at whatever settings. Like I said, I cannot beat the 100% AI, I don't even think I could see off most of the 98% AI in a short race. The people who are REALLY good at Nascar sims, haven't spend any time messing about with the various road racing / rally sims we've been sidetracked by. Practise, practise and then practise some more is the deal here. Nascar 3 (like it's predecessors) is rather basic in the controller department. However, I, to date, have also been using my TM wheel to race it and have had my usual level of success (none ;-)). The part of 10's is the turn-in... the correct way of easing out of the throttle and onto the brake (if applicable) while turning in is hard to explain. It's one of those "you'll know it once you do it"-deals like keeping the car "on the tyres" when launching in GPL. Whether you right- or left-foot brake or, in your case, whether or not you brake against partial engine power doesn't really enter the equation (some might argue this... I don't care: I see no evidence to support either). The Papy driver won't make much difference (apart from slowing response up if you have a digital gameport). As for the URL's : unfortunately not, unless I repeat the exercise myself. I had a HD-crash early september. No biggie... I had back-ups of nearly everything... except a recent back-up of my favourites folder. Most of the GPL stuff I sorta knew by reference (IE where to find the link again), but the Nascar stuff is history. I also rescued a lot of stuff form my PC at work, but again, as games pages have a pretty heavy graphic content (my work PC is a P100 with the most god-awfull videocard), none of that stuff was mirrored there (it is now!!). If I remember correctly I started at "The Oval Office" (can't find that URL anymore) and Nascar Racing Sims : http://www.nascar-racing-sims.com/ Jan. ----

Ouch, your talking about the blue-flag-problem-MGPRS2-AI ? Still, I find them AI quite wuss, not really aggressive, and when they are aggressive it's in a quite dumb and dangerous way. But hey, there's no AI that is good for me. Humans are the future of simracing. -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 01:08:21 +0200, "Jan Verschueren" >If I remember correctly I started at "The Oval Office" (can't find that URL >anymore) and Nascar Racing Sims : http://www.nascar-racing-sims.com/ >Jan. The Oval Office: http://www3.sympatico.ca/bcranston/ Skotty Flynn webmaster - http://www.nascar-racing-sims.com "skotty" on WON

quityer***in

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> >I've been playing (or should I say: trying to >play) N3 for 4 weeks now. And > >I just don't get into it. I can never keep up >with the AI (at 99% or > >higher). > Like anything else in life it takes time, I started N1 at 75% but when I > stopped driving N2/99 I was beating ai at 107% at Bristol, now thats fun. > >By now I really hate > >those stupid (small) circuits. It's all so >slow. Dull. Boring. No sense of > >speed whatsoever > Uhh, did I just say Bristol? not nearly as boring as one line drafting at > Talledega > All driving games are fun, just different. > Of course I am biased, I only drive GPL. > JM

Thank you! Jan. ---- <snip>

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> The Oval Office: > http://www3.sympatico.ca/bcranston/ > Skotty Flynn > webmaster - http://www.nascar-racing-sims.com > "skotty" on WON

Christer, We have had this discussion before... TWICE. I'm not saying that with tremendous dedication and practise, it's impossible to actually adapt yourself to the game. It is possible and you are living proof. It's just, for me, not as intuitive as with every other simulation, using the same controller. GP2 is the only sim which I can't do without helps, ERGO: the problem is, IMO, inherent to GP2. End of story. Jan. ---- > That's probably a hardware problem, Jan. I used to go 100% races in GP2 with > no helps or aids whatsoever without having any trouble steering. I remember > once doing a 100% race at Aida in an offline league without doing any driver > errors at all, and... I beat Ian Lake in that race :o))), with three seconds

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> I think it was :o). > /Christer > <<snip>

Maybe your setups are not very good? Maybe you need more practice? Maybe your driving style sucks? Maybe *you* suck :-) I would agree with that. Not everyone likes Nascar. Maybe Of course they are supposed to be fun. I have fun by doing 10-15% races and start in the rear. Then I adjust the opposition until I can just barely make it to the lead by the end of the race (if I drive good). For me it is fun. Others may whine about it :-) Oh yeah... LIke a theropy group for arcade racers that suck at serious racing sims. Cool I'm all for it. *PLONK* -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com