AMA Disappointment:(

First off let me say I really wanted to like this game,but I can't really find anything I like in this game maybe other than the sounds of the bikes,they're decent:(I don't know really where to start,the handling physics are awful as you can't even get the bike out of shape.You can run through your AI opponents from the side but not from the rear.If you run over a cone don't worry it won't throw you off the bike you'll just erratically get moved around it.I hit a hay bail at roughly 50mph and the bike flew about 30 feet in the air and well down the track:(The tires make this noise when pushed hard which I guess is supposed to be squeeling but I'm not sure.The menu is hard to get around in,I spent around 5 minutes just trying to figure out how to get into the game.Also the Video setup didn't work real well since I have a Voodoo2 card and it would only find a generic primary display driver.Theres no way of manually selecting your card either.Again I'm just telling what I saw,your results may vary but I can't see them varying too much.I was hoping this would be a real good cycle sim but I'm just left empty in that group,EA's SBK still has a tight grasp on that for now.Its too bad I was really looking forward to this game and its gotta be the biggest disappointment in the sim department in awhile:( Mark

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> First off let me say I really wanted to like this game,but I can't > really find anything I like in this game maybe other than the sounds of > the bikes,they're decent:(I don't know really where to start,the > handling physics are awful as you can't even get the bike out of > shape.You can run through your AI opponents from the side but not from > the rear.If you run over a cone don't worry it won't throw you off the > bike you'll just erratically get moved around it.I hit a hay bail at > roughly 50mph and the bike flew about 30 feet in the air and well down > the track:(The tires make this noise when pushed hard which I guess is > supposed to be squeeling but I'm not sure.The menu is hard to get around > in,I spent around 5 minutes just trying to figure out how to get into > the game.Also the Video setup didn't work real well since I have a > Voodoo2 card and it would only find a generic primary display > driver.Theres no way of manually selecting your card either.Again I'm > just telling what I saw,your results may vary but I can't see them > varying too much.I was hoping this would be a real good cycle sim but > I'm just left empty in that group,EA's SBK still has a tight grasp on > that for now.Its too bad I was really looking forward to this game and > its gotta be the biggest disappointment in the sim department in > awhile:( > Mark

Where and when did you get the game? Also, based on same reviews the beta from sim racing site (operationsports comes to mind), it would seem like this was a good game. I ordered it already and looking forward to getting it anyways. Philster

EB got it in late today(I'm in PA)and I ran right up to get it,like I said I was enthusiastic about the games release.Its just ashame it doesn't live up to the hype. Mark

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> > First off let me say I really wanted to like this game,but I can't > > really find anything I like in this game maybe other than the sounds of > > the bikes,they're decent:(I don't know really where to start,the > > handling physics are awful as you can't even get the bike out of > > shape.You can run through your AI opponents from the side but not from > > the rear.If you run over a cone don't worry it won't throw you off the > > bike you'll just erratically get moved around it.I hit a hay bail at > > roughly 50mph and the bike flew about 30 feet in the air and well down > > the track:(The tires make this noise when pushed hard which I guess is > > supposed to be squeeling but I'm not sure.The menu is hard to get around > > in,I spent around 5 minutes just trying to figure out how to get into > > the game.Also the Video setup didn't work real well since I have a > > Voodoo2 card and it would only find a generic primary display > > driver.Theres no way of manually selecting your card either.Again I'm > > just telling what I saw,your results may vary but I can't see them > > varying too much.I was hoping this would be a real good cycle sim but > > I'm just left empty in that group,EA's SBK still has a tight grasp on > > that for now.Its too bad I was really looking forward to this game and > > its gotta be the biggest disappointment in the sim department in > > awhile:( > > Mark > Where and when did you get the game? Also, based on same reviews the > beta from sim racing site (operationsports comes to mind), it would seem > like this was a good game. I ordered it already and looking forward to > getting it anyways. > Philster

I couldnt agree more with u, i'm very dissapointed i had such high hopes for this game, as i'm a real racer in a local club here in colorado and was at ppir for all 4 days doing corner worke, this game has been such a let down i dont have the words to explain. Gp 500 looks so much better but i personally like the AMA our tracks etc RDRACER

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> First off let me say I really wanted to like this game,but I can't > really find anything I like in this game maybe other than the sounds of > the bikes,they're decent:(I don't know really where to start,the > handling physics are awful as you can't even get the bike out of > shape.You can run through your AI opponents from the side but not from > the rear.If you run over a cone don't worry it won't throw you off the > bike you'll just erratically get moved around it.I hit a hay bail at > roughly 50mph and the bike flew about 30 feet in the air and well down > the track:(The tires make this noise when pushed hard which I guess is > supposed to be squeeling but I'm not sure.The menu is hard to get around > in,I spent around 5 minutes just trying to figure out how to get into > the game.Also the Video setup didn't work real well since I have a > Voodoo2 card and it would only find a generic primary display > driver.Theres no way of manually selecting your card either.Again I'm > just telling what I saw,your results may vary but I can't see them > varying too much.I was hoping this would be a real good cycle sim but > I'm just left empty in that group,EA's SBK still has a tight grasp on > that for now.Its too bad I was really looking forward to this game and > its gotta be the biggest disappointment in the sim department in > awhile:( > Mark

exactly,I love the AMA series.I think just becuase its all american riders for the most part and I know the tracks much better.I hardly sit through a WSB race but I can easily sit back and watch AMA races. Mark

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> I couldnt agree more with u, i'm very dissapointed i had such high hopes for > this game, as i'm a real racer in a local club here in colorado and was at > ppir for all 4 days doing corner worke, this game has been such a let down i > dont have the words to explain. Gp 500 looks so much better but i personally > like the AMA our tracks etc > RDRACER > > First off let me say I really wanted to like this game,but I can't > > really find anything I like in this game maybe other than the sounds of > > the bikes,they're decent:(I don't know really where to start,the > > handling physics are awful as you can't even get the bike out of > > shape.You can run through your AI opponents from the side but not from > > the rear.If you run over a cone don't worry it won't throw you off the > > bike you'll just erratically get moved around it.I hit a hay bail at > > roughly 50mph and the bike flew about 30 feet in the air and well down > > the track:(The tires make this noise when pushed hard which I guess is > > supposed to be squeeling but I'm not sure.The menu is hard to get around > > in,I spent around 5 minutes just trying to figure out how to get into > > the game.Also the Video setup didn't work real well since I have a > > Voodoo2 card and it would only find a generic primary display > > driver.Theres no way of manually selecting your card either.Again I'm > > just telling what I saw,your results may vary but I can't see them > > varying too much.I was hoping this would be a real good cycle sim but > > I'm just left empty in that group,EA's SBK still has a tight grasp on > > that for now.Its too bad I was really looking forward to this game and > > its gotta be the biggest disappointment in the sim department in > > awhile:( > > Mark

It was released today Philippe in stores. Hope to see you online there, it's a good sim, it needs some tweaking but Motorsims know that and their online-approach using the Castanet servers will really help to make it more realistic from each patch to patch, since I do hope they will support it fully. The track realism is worth the price IMHO. Tom will be proud of his Sears Point ;) -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Sorry man but it sucks to make this a short post, Thank goodness EB has a good return policy......Wait for GP500 its better in every sense. Norm

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> > First off let me say I really wanted to like this game,but I can't > > really find anything I like in this game maybe other than the sounds of > > the bikes,they're decent:(I don't know really where to start,the > > handling physics are awful as you can't even get the bike out of > > shape.You can run through your AI opponents from the side but not from > > the rear.If you run over a cone don't worry it won't throw you off the > > bike you'll just erratically get moved around it.I hit a hay bail at > > roughly 50mph and the bike flew about 30 feet in the air and well down > > the track:(The tires make this noise when pushed hard which I guess is > > supposed to be squeeling but I'm not sure.The menu is hard to get around > > in,I spent around 5 minutes just trying to figure out how to get into > > the game.Also the Video setup didn't work real well since I have a > > Voodoo2 card and it would only find a generic primary display > > driver.Theres no way of manually selecting your card either.Again I'm > > just telling what I saw,your results may vary but I can't see them > > varying too much.I was hoping this would be a real good cycle sim but > > I'm just left empty in that group,EA's SBK still has a tight grasp on > > that for now.Its too bad I was really looking forward to this game and > > its gotta be the biggest disappointment in the sim department in > > awhile:( > > Mark > Where and when did you get the game? Also, based on same reviews the > beta from sim racing site (operationsports comes to mind), it would seem > like this was a good game. I ordered it already and looking forward to > getting it anyways. > Philster

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Dissapointed here. Not what it was hoped to be. Back to the store. Michael K. Grandy Sr Proud Member of Precision Racing Professional Internet Race Team Officially sponsored by ECCI "ECCI - A proud sponsor of the 1998 NROS finals" The CDS4000 was designed for stock car racing... and it delivers Member of OSCAR Freedom Cup Series Member of Nass99 Pro Online Series Nas99 Pro is sponsored by 4CDs.com Member of the National Invitational Series The NIS is sponsored by Thomas Enterprises First off let me say I really wanted to like this game,but I can't really find anything I like in this game maybe other than the sounds of the bikes,they're decent:(I don't know really where to start,the handling physics are awful as you can't even get the bike out of shape.You can run through your AI opponents from the side but not from the rear.If you run over a cone don't worry it won't throw you off the bike you'll just erratically get moved around it.I hit a hay bail at roughly 50mph and the bike flew about 30 feet in the air and well down the track:(The tires make this noise when pushed hard which I guess is supposed to be squeeling but I'm not sure.The menu is hard to get around in,I spent around 5 minutes just trying to figure out how to get into the game.Also the Video setup didn't work real well since I have a Voodoo2 card and it would only find a generic primary display driver.Theres no way of manually selecting your card either.Again I'm just telling what I saw,your results may vary but I can't see them varying too much.I was hoping this would be a real good cycle sim but I'm just left empty in that group,EA's SBK still has a tight grasp on that for now.Its too bad I was really looking forward to this game and its gotta be the biggest disappointment in the sim department in awhile:( Mark

How does Superbike by EA compare to these sims?

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> Sorry man but it sucks to make this a short post, Thank goodness EB has a > good return policy......Wait for GP500 its better in every sense. > Norm > > > First off let me say I really wanted to like this game,but I can't > > > really find anything I like in this game maybe other than the sounds

of

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> > > the bikes,they're decent:(I don't know really where to start,the > > > handling physics are awful as you can't even get the bike out of > > > shape.You can run through your AI opponents from the side but not from > > > the rear.If you run over a cone don't worry it won't throw you off the > > > bike you'll just erratically get moved around it.I hit a hay bail at > > > roughly 50mph and the bike flew about 30 feet in the air and well down > > > the track:(The tires make this noise when pushed hard which I guess is > > > supposed to be squeeling but I'm not sure.The menu is hard to get

around

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> > > in,I spent around 5 minutes just trying to figure out how to get into > > > the game.Also the Video setup didn't work real well since I have a > > > Voodoo2 card and it would only find a generic primary display > > > driver.Theres no way of manually selecting your card either.Again I'm > > > just telling what I saw,your results may vary but I can't see them > > > varying too much.I was hoping this would be a real good cycle sim but > > > I'm just left empty in that group,EA's SBK still has a tight grasp on > > > that for now.Its too bad I was really looking forward to this game and > > > its gotta be the biggest disappointment in the sim department in > > > awhile:( > > > Mark > > Where and when did you get the game? Also, based on same reviews the > > beta from sim racing site (operationsports comes to mind), it would seem > > like this was a good game. I ordered it already and looking forward to > > getting it anyways. > > Philster > -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News

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>First off let me say I really wanted to like this game,but I can't >really find anything I like in this game maybe other than the sounds of >the bikes,they're decent:(I don't know really where to start,the >handling physics are awful as you can't even get the bike out of >shape. This isn't the game which was going to surpass GPL in the physics department was it? Cheers! John

No, that was/is GP500 by Microprose I think. I tested it, physics were very impressive to me. But I don't know a thing about motor racing, so perhaps the real motor fanatics will think gp500 is awfull... Andre

In the physics department GP500 has SBK(AMA is a joke for sure compared to either of these games).It really sucks though,I wanted an AMA sim really bad.I should have saw this after they couldn't have any of the real AMA riders in the game.Its sad but someones been blowing smoke up our a$$es:( Mark

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> No, that was/is GP500 by Microprose I think. I tested it, physics were > very impressive to me. But I don't know a thing about motor racing, so > perhaps the real motor fanatics will think gp500 is awfull... > Andre > >This isn't the game which was going to surpass GPL in the physics > >department was it? > >Cheers! > >John

A joke? Not really. What you see may not be what the engine is capable of. However, please remember that AMA is a WORK IN PROGRESS. What does that mean? It means it will continually improve and you won't pay a cent for those improvements [well, except download time if you are charged for that]. And if you feel your money wasn't well spent, so be it. But you can also download the online version which has everything almost that the box version does but no AI riders and monitor the progress of the sim that way. And btw, I don't remember seeing any marketing slicks from Motorsims saying that they had the rights for the AMA riders to appear. Most of the focus of the title will be online play and that really doesn't need money spent on AMA riders does it? :) Oh, there is an option to turn on low-sides if you haven't already that helps somewhat. But if you think its "easy" then I challenge you to run a good solid 1:36 or under at BIR in a superbike or a 1:45 or under in a supersport at BIR. Nonetheless, two of the best features of the game as ymenard mentioned are a) representation of the tracks and b) the awesome control setup. Btw, as far as smoke being blown up your asses, it has been said repeatedly that there was going to be an online version of the game you could download for FREE in a few weeks. ALl you had to do was wait a bit longer. :)

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> In the physics department GP500 has SBK(AMA is a joke for sure compared to > either of these games).It really sucks though,I wanted an AMA sim really > bad.I should have saw this after they couldn't have any of the real AMA > riders in the game.Its sad but someones been blowing smoke up our a$$es:( > Mark > > No, that was/is GP500 by Microprose I think. I tested it, physics were > > very impressive to me. But I don't know a thing about motor racing, so > > perhaps the real motor fanatics will think gp500 is awfull... > > Andre > > >This isn't the game which was going to surpass GPL in the physics > > >department was it? > > >Cheers! > > >John

You're totally missing the point here.The game is just that,a game.It was touted as a simulation and that it was gonna blow GPL's physics out of the water?Yeah right,not even close.I'm not the only one that is severely disappointed in this product,there are around 5 others who have had the displeasure of playing this "game".As far as patching this game which has sawed off shotgun holes in it,that remains to be seen.But I seriously doubt that they can update it that much.Are you gonna tell me that this is the best cycle game out there right now?Man EA has even built a better one then Motorsims in SBK,thats down right sad.And as far you're beloved track representation and awesome control setup,it doesn't mean jack if you can drive through the dirt and ride as fast as you can on the pavement,drive through walls,hit cones and just be moved around them,drive through other players on the course,hit hay bails at 50mph and see the bike launch 30ft. in the air or the other time I hit one with the bike just stopped dead in its tracks and fell on its side.Now theres some accurate physics.I said nothing about turning fast laps is easy,don't know where you got that from,but I can't see even bothering working on a setup and learning a track in a game with such holes in it. Mark

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> A joke? Not really. What you see may not be what the engine is capable of. > However, please remember that AMA is a WORK IN PROGRESS. What does that > mean? It means it will continually improve and you won't pay a cent for > those improvements [well, except download time if you are charged for that]. > And if you feel your money wasn't well spent, so be it. But you can also > download the online version which has everything almost that the box version > does but no AI riders and monitor the progress of the sim that way. > And btw, I don't remember seeing any marketing slicks from Motorsims saying > that they had the rights for the AMA riders to appear. Most of the focus of > the title will be online play and that really doesn't need money spent on > AMA riders does it? :) > Oh, there is an option to turn on low-sides if you haven't already that > helps somewhat. But if you think its "easy" then I challenge you to run a > good solid 1:36 or under at BIR in a superbike or a 1:45 or under in a > supersport at BIR. > Nonetheless, two of the best features of the game as ymenard mentioned are > a) representation of the tracks and b) the awesome control setup. > Btw, as far as smoke being blown up your asses, it has been said repeatedly > that there was going to be an online version of the game you could download > for FREE in a few weeks. ALl you had to do was wait a bit longer. :) > > In the physics department GP500 has SBK(AMA is a joke for sure compared to > > either of these games).It really sucks though,I wanted an AMA sim really > > bad.I should have saw this after they couldn't have any of the real AMA > > riders in the game.Its sad but someones been blowing smoke up our a$$es:( > > Mark > > > No, that was/is GP500 by Microprose I think. I tested it, physics were > > > very impressive to me. But I don't know a thing about motor racing, so > > > perhaps the real motor fanatics will think gp500 is awfull... > > > Andre > > > >This isn't the game which was going to surpass GPL in the physics > > > >department was it? > > > >Cheers! > > > >John

I run on a V2 at home and the game detects my card just fine. Do you have DX6.1? Did you contact our tech. supt.? We have a patch due very soon which will address a bunch of collision problems. You can turn low-sides on (Riders:Realism screen). As for the limits we put into the model (i.e. your comments about an "arcade game"), that was a tough decision we had to make. The modeling of all the bad things that can happen on a bike are there, but without the physical feedback you get in real life of impending doom, enabling this stuff made the game very hard to drive. We didn't want to get into the GPL zone of a game that was "too hard." So we put in artificial limits to make the vehicle controllable. As for other complaints I've read this morning - we stated right up front months ago in various places that we didn't license the rider's names for the game. And without that, we didn't feel it proper to model their driving styles and performances without their permission. These guys are super-competitive with each other, afterall. Dave Sadowski *did* drive the game around as a sanity check on what we had done and felt things felt as they should be. The game drives different than the other bike sim's, so it could be that the unfamiliar territory is clouding some people's comments. I don't know. I'm not going to tell anyone they're right or wrong to like or dislike the game since entertainment is very subjective. If we get a lot of returns because people feel we rushed the game out the door, we'll live with that. We'll fix the problems. We'll make it Right. I can assure everyone here that a lot of people worked very *** this product, and that we're fully committed to fixing any and all problems. So I do ask that people make their comments constructive so we can fix things. Spreading early rumors that we're going to fold, or trashing us as a company, really does't help anyone. -MSM -- __________________________________________________________________________ Mark S. Miller "Be regular and orderly in your life, Director of Design that you may be *** and original Motorsport Simulations in your work." [link lost in import]

>How does Superbike by EA compare to these sims? It's a good sim, but the AI is too easy to beat, and the mulitplayer doesn't really work. So it's good, but low replay value. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

I will appologize for the comment about your company folding,it was not meant to spread rumors and I'll retract that statement.My criticism has been constructive and no one has trashed your company on this newsgroup anyway.I've simply stated I was disappointed in the game and Motorsims for putting out this product,I really thought it would be a good one.You don't understand how much faith I had for this one,I really wanted it to be the best cycle sim out there.I love AMA and its courses but I just can't get into a game that acts so arcade.I have turned on the toggle for lowsiding and still have yet to see the bike loose the front tire in a turn or head shake off a turn.I did notice the backing it in feature is there and seems to be done decently.If a sim could incorporate SBK's front end loss and GP 500's head shake off of the corner I think we would have something.I think the other problem I have is knowing Motorsims released a game to stores with being able to run through things.This isn't professional and bothers me alot.If the game isn't finished and theres problems with it don't release it,I and I believe others don't have a problem waiting for a game if it means getting it right.I hope this is taken as constructive criticism because I'm merely trying to point out the problems here and there.You have to understand something though,many game companies tell you they will back the game and take care of things that are wrong.I guess since I've been let down in the past I'm a little skeptical,you could always prove me wrong:)Atleast you have so far by showing in this newsgroup. Mark

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> > First off let me say I really wanted to like this game,but I can't > > really find anything I like in this game maybe other than the sounds of > > the bikes,they're decent:(I don't know really where to start,the > > handling physics are awful as you can't even get the bike out of > > shape. [...] > I run on a V2 at home and the game detects my card just fine. Do you have > DX6.1? Did you contact our tech. supt.? > We have a patch due very soon which will address a bunch of collision > problems. > You can turn low-sides on (Riders:Realism screen). > As for the limits we put into the model (i.e. your comments about an "arcade > game"), that was a tough decision we had to make. The modeling of all the > bad things that can happen on a bike are there, but without the physical > feedback you get in real life of impending doom, enabling this stuff made > the game very hard to drive. We didn't want to get into the GPL zone of a > game that was "too hard." So we put in artificial limits to make the vehicle > controllable. > As for other complaints I've read this morning - we stated right up front > months ago in various places that we didn't license the rider's names for > the game. And without that, we didn't feel it proper to model their driving > styles and performances without their permission. These guys are > super-competitive with each other, afterall. > Dave Sadowski *did* drive the game around as a sanity check on what we had > done and felt things felt as they should be. The game drives different than > the other bike sim's, so it could be that the unfamiliar territory is > clouding some people's comments. I don't know. > I'm not going to tell anyone they're right or wrong to like or dislike the > game since entertainment is very subjective. If we get a lot of returns > because people feel we rushed the game out the door, we'll live with that. > We'll fix the problems. We'll make it Right. > I can assure everyone here that a lot of people worked very *** this > product, and that we're fully committed to fixing any and all problems. So I > do ask that people make their comments constructive so we can fix things. > Spreading early rumors that we're going to fold, or trashing us as a > company, really does't help anyone. > -MSM > -- > __________________________________________________________________________ > Mark S. Miller "Be regular and orderly in your life, > Director of Design that you may be *** and original > Motorsport Simulations in your work." > [link lost in import]

Well, it may not quite yet all work. But online DOES work.

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> >How does Superbike by EA compare to these sims? > It's a good sim, but the AI is too easy to beat, and the mulitplayer > doesn't really work. So it's good, but low replay value. > Joe McGinn > ========================================== > Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network > [link lost in import: /***.com/] > ==========================================

As I said, there is an option for low-sides which you can not drive on the grass/dirt/etc without lowsiding. Is it the best currently? No. However, the Motorsims business model is superior to EA. They are not going to leave you*** like EA did with SBK and not patch it, add to it, etc. Heck, there won't be a AMA 2000 you have to buy. Instead, you get the AMA "2000" for free, plus all the other patches/updates/additions/etc between AMA and the next release of it. Go pay careful attention to how well GPL handles the physics of crashing and collision detection too. > You're totally missing the point here.The game is just that,a game.It was touted > as a simulation and that it was gonna blow GPL's physics out of the water?Yeah > right,not even close.I'm not the only one that is severely disappointed in this > product,there are around 5 others who have had the displeasure of playing this > "game".As far as patching this game which has sawed off shotgun holes in it,that > remains to be seen.But I seriously doubt that they can update it that much.Are > you gonna tell me that this is the best cycle game out there right now?Man EA > has even built a better one then Motorsims in SBK,thats down right sad.And as > far you're beloved track representation and awesome control setup,it doesn't > mean jack if you can drive through the dirt and ride as fast as you can on the > pavement,drive through walls,hit cones and just be moved around them,drive > through other players on the course,hit hay bails at 50mph and see the bike > launch 30ft. in the air or the other time I hit one with the bike just stopped > dead in its tracks and fell on its side.Now theres some accurate physics.I said > nothing about turning fast laps is easy,don't know where you got that from,but I > can't see even bothering working on a setup and learning a track in a game with

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> such holes in it. > Mark > > A joke? Not really. What you see may not be what the engine is capable

of. > > However, please remember that AMA is a WORK IN PROGRESS. What does that > > mean? It means it will continually improve and you won't pay a cent for > > those improvements [well, except download time if you are charged for that]. > > And if you feel your money wasn't well spent, so be it. But you can also > > download the online version which has everything almost that the box version > > does but no AI riders and monitor the progress of the sim that way. > > And btw, I don't remember seeing any marketing slicks from Motorsims saying > > that they had the rights for the AMA riders to appear. Most of the focus of > > the title will be online play and that really doesn't need money spent on > > AMA riders does it? :) > > Oh, there is an option to turn on low-sides if you haven't already that > > helps somewhat. But if you think its "easy" then I challenge you to run a > > good solid 1:36 or under at BIR in a superbike or a 1:45 or under in a > > supersport at BIR. > > Nonetheless, two of the best features of the game as ymenard mentioned are > > a) representation of the tracks and b) the awesome control setup. > > Btw, as far as smoke being blown up your asses, it has been said repeatedly > > that there was going to be an online version of the game you could download > > for FREE in a few weeks. ALl you had to do was wait a bit longer. :) > > > In the physics department GP500 has SBK(AMA is a joke for sure compared to > > > either of these games).It really sucks though,I wanted an AMA sim really > > > bad.I should have saw this after they couldn't have any of the real AMA > > > riders in the game.Its sad but someones been blowing smoke up our a$$es:( > > > Mark > > > > No, that was/is GP500 by Microprose I think. I tested it, physics were > > > > very impressive to me. But I don't know a thing about motor racing, so

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> > > > perhaps the real motor fanatics will think gp500 is awfull... > > > > Andre > > > > >This isn't the game which was going to surpass GPL in the physics > > > > >department was it? > > > > >Cheers! > > > > >John

Cool. We wanted to put in high- and low-sides. Hell, at one point when the wheelie model was 100% on you could flip over so easily if you weren't careful that is was dangerous just driving around. And the modeling was right - it's just that without feedback it was impossible to catch the wheelie before it was too late. So we asked Sadowski just how much wheelies weigh on a rider's mind during a race, and tailored our limits accordingly. We didn't want to put out a game where people couldn't even get around a lap without wrecking all the time. We will turn these things back on once we can dial in some feedback or "lifelike limits" to make it controllable. For instance, on lowsides we'll probably add a fiberglass-on-pavement sound to tell you that you're scraping your faring - and unless you pick the bike up in a second or so, you're going to wash out. What we focused on a lot was the racing. Can players do the same things that the Pro's do? Trail braking, clutch braking, spiking the bike into a turn, etc. All these things work. But its a very different ride than GPL or other car games, you have to set up for the turn early, be at the right speed, and lay it over just right. It's not as easy to recover from a bad entry as in a car game. We knew from past experience with all manner of games that frequent updates were essential to overall quality. Which is why we went for best-of-breed online update technology. Obviously our best efforts won't be right all the time, so if we***something up, we can at least fix the damn thing and get it into customer's hands in a hurry. As for releasing too early ... well ... I can't make any official company statements in that regard. I can tell you that I personally have worked as a senior developer in technology for 20 years at places like Sun and Cisco. Whatever may worry you worries me a hell of a lot more since I'm seeing the other side of it. And I know all too well how a professional software organization works - and that is our goal. Meaning that it'll get better - a year ago we were only a dozen people, now we're 36 - this ain't easy. Would we have liked another couple of months to work on the game? You bet. It just wasn't in the cards. The players may have waited a couple months, but other things couldn't. If you feel disappointed enough to return your copy of the game, again, I won't try to talk you out of it. But don't give up on us yet. Grab the online version when it becomes available. And when the model progresses to the point you're happy with (and we fix the lunar orbit collisions <g>), consider going out and buying the box again. Or just race online. -MSM -- __________________________________________________________________________ Mark S. Miller "Be regular and orderly in your life, Director of Design that you may be *** and original Motorsport Simulations in your work." [link lost in import]

Mark you're definetely a class act and I admire you for being able to take the critisism and explain what you guys think about for a game like AMA.Thank you,I'm not always such a ***,I just really anticipated this title.Any chance you can work on a few more ridable camera views?I like the*** pit one but when you lean you just aren't high enough to get a look at whats coming up.Maybe a view that doesn't lean and is a bit higher so you can see past the handlebars further?In my view you definetely need to add more low and high sides.I know its tough to simulate and that it'll make it harder to drive but the way it is now takes away from it being a sim.I can't say right now that I'll spend hours driving but I will keep checking back to see how much further it has come along.Thanks again, Mark

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> > I will appologize for the comment about your company folding,it was not > meant to > > spread rumors and I'll retract that statement.My criticism has been > constructive > > and no one has trashed your company on this newsgroup anyway.I've simply > stated > > I was disappointed in the game and Motorsims for putting out this > product,I > > really thought it would be a good one.You don't understand how much faith > I had > > for this one,I really wanted it to be the best cycle sim out there.I love > AMA > > and its courses but I just can't get into a game that acts so arcade.I > have > > turned on the toggle for lowsiding and still have yet to see the bike > loose the > > front tire in a turn or head shake off a turn.I did notice the backing it > in > > feature is there and seems to be done decently.If a sim could incorporate > SBK's > > front end loss and GP 500's head shake off of the corner I think we would > have > > something.I think the other problem I have is knowing Motorsims released a > game > > to stores with being able to run through things.This isn't professional > and > > bothers me alot.If the game isn't finished and theres problems with it > don't > > release it,I and I believe others don't have a problem waiting for a game > if it > > means getting it right.I hope this is taken as constructive criticism > because > > I'm merely trying to point out the problems here and there.You have to > > understand something though,many game companies tell you they will back > the game > > and take care of things that are wrong.I guess since I've been let down in > the > > past I'm a little skeptical,you could always prove me wrong:)Atleast you > have so > > far by showing in this newsgroup. > Cool. > We wanted to put in high- and low-sides. Hell, at one point when the wheelie > model was 100% on you could flip over so easily if you weren't careful that > is was dangerous just driving around. And the modeling was right - it's just > that without feedback it was impossible to catch the wheelie before it was > too late. So we asked Sadowski just how much wheelies weigh on a rider's > mind during a race, and tailored our limits accordingly. > We didn't want to put out a game where people couldn't even get around a lap > without wrecking all the time. We will turn these things back on once we can > dial in some feedback or "lifelike limits" to make it controllable. For > instance, on lowsides we'll probably add a fiberglass-on-pavement sound to > tell you that you're scraping your faring - and unless you pick the bike up > in a second or so, you're going to wash out. > What we focused on a lot was the racing. Can players do the same things that > the Pro's do? Trail braking, clutch braking, spiking the bike into a turn, > etc. All these things work. But its a very different ride than GPL or other > car games, you have to set up for the turn early, be at the right speed, and > lay it over just right. It's not as easy to recover from a bad entry as in a > car game. > We knew from past experience with all manner of games that frequent updates > were essential to overall quality. Which is why we went for best-of-breed > online update technology. Obviously our best efforts won't be right all the > time, so if we***something up, we can at least fix the damn thing and > get it into customer's hands in a hurry. > As for releasing too early ... well ... I can't make any official company > statements in that regard. I can tell you that I personally have worked as a > senior developer in technology for 20 years at places like Sun and Cisco. > Whatever may worry you worries me a hell of a lot more since I'm seeing the > other side of it. And I know all too well how a professional software > organization works - and that is our goal. Meaning that it'll get better - a > year ago we were only a dozen people, now we're 36 - this ain't easy. > Would we have liked another couple of months to work on the game? You bet. > It just wasn't in the cards. The players may have waited a couple months, > but other things couldn't. > If you feel disappointed enough to return your copy of the game, again, I > won't try to talk you out of it. But don't give up on us yet. Grab the > online version when it becomes available. And when the model progresses to > the point you're happy with (and we fix the lunar orbit collisions <g>), > consider going out and buying the box again. Or just race online. > -MSM > -- > __________________________________________________________________________ > Mark S. Miller "Be regular and orderly in your life, > Director of Design that you may be *** and original > Motorsport Simulations in your work." > [link lost in import]

----- Original Message ----- Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 3:28 PM Subject: Re: AMA Disappointment:( > Mark you're definetely a class act and I admire you for being able to take the > critisism and explain what you guys think about for a game like AMA.Thank > you,I'm not always such a ***,I just really anticipated this title.Any chance > you can work on a few more ridable camera views?I like the*** pit one but when > you lean you just aren't high enough to get a look at whats coming up.Maybe a > view that doesn't lean and is a bit higher so you can see past the handlebars > further?In my view you definetely need to add more low and high sides.I know its > tough to simulate and that it'll make it harder to drive but the way it is now > takes away from it being a sim.I can't say right now that I'll spend hours > driving but I will keep checking back to see how much further it has come > along.Thanks again, No sweat. I've been where you're sitting more often than I care to think about. You can lock the head position (Alt-H I think) so that you don't get the lean-in and your eyepoint stays higher off the road surface - more like a car. In normal***pit mode, we model the physical location of the rider's eyes - so when you lean over, you get to see grass up close. And you get to hang out over the curbing just like you see on SpeedVision ... cool ... I love T1 and T2 at BIR for that. This realism does come at the cost - as you point out - of not having as much lookahead down the track. What I do is learn the track from driving in chase mode, then move to***pit mode once I have the rhythm down. Even though I work here it took me several hours of driving one track in ***pit mode before I got the hang of things. There's a different rhythm - a lot of my car driving habits had to be unlearned. Lo/Hi sides will improve. Our aim is to make them penalties for obviously impossible driving techniques rather than annoying impediments to driving aggressively. It's a fine balance. And without proper feedback the vehicle is unpredictable - which is self-defeating. And as we dial in these things better we'll make it easier to select the level of simulation. The sim-racers will want the full-boat, the people new to computer games will want something far more tame. We kind of had to shoot for the middle last month. Anyway, hang in there with us. We're equipted to update our products on a constant basis. Our business model *assumes* that once you buy a Motorsims game, your investment grows. You won't need to buy Superbike 2.0 ... you'll just get free automatic updates. -MSM __________________________________________________________________________ Mark S. Miller "Be regular and orderly in your life, Director of Design that you may be *** and original Motorsport Simulations in your work." [link lost in import]

Maybe because with the controllers available to us at the current time it was impossible to control? Yeah, I think thats it.

My copy is still on the way to coming to me, I'm still e***d to see it and I feel that just the fact the Mark (from MSM) takes some time to address people's concerns is a good sign of customer service. I'm eager to play this sim more than ever. At least MSM is saying that they will continuously be improving the game. That much can't be said from EA (Nascar Revolution anybody?), Ubisoft (6 patches per version of Monaco Grand Prix racing and the game still sux) or even Papyrus (almost a year to get the first patch and no indication of anything coming). All the best to Motorsims! Philster

Motorsims needs to go out and buy a copy of Microprose's GP500 and study it real hard. AMA Superbike is a complete joke.

Mark, In many ways it sounds like you are going through what Parsoft did with Fighter Squadron. They took some major hits early on but now, with some time to correct some of the early issues it's really become a fantastic sim. I wish you guys the best with AMA and hope it turns into one hell of a motorcycle sim. I've just recently tried the GP500 demo and love it. My interest in racing is really growing recently so I'm sure I'll give your sim a try as well. Hang in there. Just your being here says so much. Keep up the good work by letting the racing community know where it all stands from time to time. The fact that you and your team are so commited is great. Pete Hawk Fighter Squadron Extreme http://www.hawkmodels.com/sdoe

>No, that was/is GP500 by Microprose I think. I tested it, physics were >very impressive to me. But I don't know a thing about motor racing, so >perhaps the real motor fanatics will think gp500 is awfull... No, it was definitely one of the motorsports guys on r.a.s. a few months ago stating that "the physics were going to surpass GPL", but I can't remember if it was concerning AMA or the Can-Am sim. I'll reserve judgement until I try it, but I've already been impressed by the GP500 demo and looking forward to racing the full thing online. Especially if it has a good Suzuka! Cheers! John

Trust me John, you won't be let down by GP500! :)

>Trust me John, you won't be let down by GP500! :) Why should he trust you? You don't even have a name! Remco